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Neutering Question

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Q - 07 Apr 2004 21:04 GMT
Hello All:

   My cat is approaching the 5 month mark , is it too early for the snip?
Last time he was in at the vet she said his testes were fully decended and
in a month ( now) it would probably be time.
   Also are there any detriments to waiting a month or so? Once bad
behavior is learned ie urine marking I imagine that it can't be unlearned.
He's not displaying any unwanted behavior yet.
   The only reason that I want to wait is financial , I want to get his
claws and microchip done at the same time. She said not only is it cheaper
in one visit but safer for the animal as well.
?
Orchid - 07 Apr 2004 21:27 GMT
>Hello All:
>
>    My cat is approaching the 5 month mark , is it too early for the snip?

    Not at all.  Kittens can be and are done as early as 8 weeks.

>Last time he was in at the vet she said his testes were fully decended and
>in a month ( now) it would probably be time.
>    Also are there any detriments to waiting a month or so? Once bad
>behavior is learned ie urine marking I imagine that it can't be unlearned.
>He's not displaying any unwanted behavior yet.

    Once a cat starts spryaing, it's very difficult to get him to
stop, neutered or no.  IMO, get it done now.

>    The only reason that I want to wait is financial , I want to get his
>claws and microchip done at the same time. She said not only is it cheaper
>in one visit but safer for the animal as well.

    Um.  Can I get you to reconsider declawing?  It's the
amputation of the first joint of your cat's toes (the distal phalanx)
and apart from the physical and psychological effects on a cat, the
surgery itself has an unacceptably high rate of complications (50% of
cats immediately after the surgery, 20% of cats at a year or more
out).

    Here's a link to a very factual site about declawing:

http://www.maxshouse.com/facts_about_declawing.htm

Orchid
See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
Want a Purebred Cat?  Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid
Victor M. Martinez - 07 Apr 2004 21:36 GMT
>    The only reason that I want to wait is financial , I want to get his
>claws and microchip done at the same time. She said not only is it cheaper
>in one visit but safer for the animal as well.

Please take a few minutes to read some of the following articles to learn
more about declawing:
http://www.maxshouse.com/Truth%20About%20Declawing.htm
http://www.declawing.com/
http://amby.com/cat_site/declaw.html (this site provides tons of links)
http://www.cfainc.org/health/declawing.html
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Please don't declaw your cats! It's cruel and inhumane. Most industrialized
countries ban this procedure as part of their animal protection laws.

Here's a description of how the declawing procedure is done. Judge by
yourlself:

"The claw is extended by pushing up under the footpad or by grasping it with
Allis tissue forceps. A scalpel blade is used to sharply dissect between the
second and third phalanx over the top of the ungual crest . The distal
interphalangeal joint is disarticulated (disjointed), and the deep digital
flexor tendon is incised (severed). The digital footpad, is not incised. If
a nail trimmer is used, the ring of the instrument is placed in the
groove between the second phalanx and the ungual crest. The blade is
positioned just in front of the footpad. The blade is pushed through the
soft tissues over the flexor process. With the ring of the nail trimmer
in position behind the ungual crest, the blade is released just slightly
so that traction applied to the claw causes the flexor process to slip
out and above the blade. At this point, the flexor tendon can be incised
and disarticulation of the joint (disjointing) completed. Both techniques
effectively remove the entire third phalanx. If a larger segment of the
third phalanx is left, it should be dissected out with a scalpel blade. A
surgeon's knot of absorbable suture material is sometimes used to
decrease hemorrhage and to act as a "guiding suture" for second intention
wound healing in large cats. " Slatter D; Textbook of Small Animal
Surgery 2nd ed vol I, p.352 W.B. Saunders Company Philadelphia.

The following is a clinical report published in the journal of Veterinary
Surgery:

Vet Surg 1994 Jul-Aug;23(4):274-80
Feline Onychectomy at a Teaching Institution: A
Retrospective Study of 163 Cases.

Tobias KS
Department of Veterinary Clinical Sciences,
Washington State University, College of Veterinary Medicine,
Pullman 99164-6610.

"One hundred sixty-three cats underwent onychectomy from January 1985 to
November 1992. Fifty percent of the cats had one or more complications
immediately after surgery. Early postoperative complications included
pain (38.1%), hemorrhage (31.9%), lameness (26.9%), swelling (6.3%), or
non-weight-bearing( 5.6%).

Follow-up was available in 121 cats;

19.8% developed complications after release. Late postoperative
complications included infection (11.6%), regrowth (7.4%), P2 protrusion
(1.7%), palmagrade stance (1.7%), and prolonged, intermittent lameness
(0.8%)".

The following clinical report was published in the Journal of the American
Medical Association:

J Am Vet Med Assoc 1998 Aug 1;213(3):370-3
Comparison of Effects of Elective Tenectomy or Onychectomy in Cats.

Jankowski AJ, Brown DC, Duval J, Gregor TP, Strine LE, Ksiazek LM, Ott AH
Department of Clinical Studies, Veterinary Teaching Hospital,
School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Pennsylvania,
Philadelphia 19104, USA.

"OBJECTIVE: To compare short- and long-term complications after Tenectomy of
the deep digital flexor tendons or onychectomy.
ANIMALS: 20 cats undergoing Tenectomy and 18 cats undergoing onychectomy.
PROCEDURE: Cats undergoing Tenectomy or onychectomy were monitored for a
minimum of 5 months to enable comparison of type and frequency of
complications. Type and frequency of complications did not differ between
procedures.
CLINICAL IMPLICATIONS: Owners should be aware of the high complication rate
for both procedures."

The Cat Fanciers' Association unanimously approved this guidance statement
on the declawing of cats:
"CFA perceives the declawing of cats (onychectomy ) and the severing of
digital tendons (tendonectomy) to be elective surgical procedures which are
without benefit to the cat. Because of post operative discomfort or pain,
and potential future behavioral or physical effects, CFA disapproves of
declawing or tendonectomy surgery."

Dr. Nicholas Dodman, Professor of Behavioral Pharmacology and Director of
the Behavior Clinic at Tufts University School of Veterinary Medicine and
internationally known specialist in domestic animal behavioral research,
explains declawing:

"The inhumanity of the procedure is clearly demonstrated by the nature of
cats' recovery from anesthesia following the surgery. Unlike routine
recoveries, including recovery from neutering surgeries, which are fairly
peaceful, declawing surgery results in cats bouncing off the walls of the
recovery cage because of excruciating pain. Cats that are more stoic
huddle in the corner of the recovery cage, immobilized in a state of
helplessness, presumably by overwhelming pain.
Declawing fits the dictionary definition of mutilation to a tee. Words such
as deform, disfigure, disjoint, and dismember all apply to this surgery.
Partial digital amputation is so horrible that it has been employed for
torture of prisoners of war, and in veterinary medicine, the clinical
procedure serves as model of severe pain for testing the efficacy of
analgesic drugs. Even though analgesic drugs can be used postoperatively,
they rarely are, and their effects are incomplete and transient anyway, so
sooner or later the pain will emerge."

Signature

Victor M. Martinez
martiv@FAKE.che.utexas.edu
http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv

Magic Mood Jeep? - 07 Apr 2004 21:42 GMT
No - my vet neutered a hand raised (mamacat abandoned it) kitten at 12
weeks.

Signature

The ONE and ONLY
lefthanded-pathetic-paranoid-psychotic-sarcastic-wiseass-ditzy former-blonde
in Bloomington! (And proud of it, too)?
http://www.geocities.com/the_magic_mood_jeep/
http://community.webshots.com/user/mgcmdjeep

> Hello All:
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> in one visit but safer for the animal as well.
> ?
Arjun Ray - 07 Apr 2004 21:47 GMT
| My cat is approaching the 5 month mark , is it too early for the
| snip?

Not at all.  Better sooner than later.  

| Also are there any detriments to waiting a month or so? Once bad
| behavior is learned ie urine marking I imagine that it can't be
| unlearned.

It can be unlearned, but save yourself the trouble.

| I want to get his claws and microchip done at the same time.

Claws?  You mean you want to declaw him?  If so, then here is the *real*
information about such egregious mutilation:

http://www.stopdeclaw.com/
http://www.maxshouse.com/facts_about_declawing.htm

If your vet is one who declaws routinely, find another vet.  One who
doesn't condone butchery.
countertroll - 08 Apr 2004 00:56 GMT
> | My cat is approaching the 5 month mark , is it too early for the
> | snip?
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> If your vet is one who declaws routinely, find another vet.  One who
> doesn't condone butchery.

tear out the claws, tear them open open from the stomach, fold inside out,
cat salad.
Q - 08 Apr 2004 03:23 GMT
> | My cat is approaching the 5 month mark , is it too early for the
> | snip?
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> If your vet is one who declaws routinely, find another vet.  One who
> doesn't condone butchery.

Actually the vet reccommended against it but she said that as I was the
one that had to live with the animal and that they will do it on request.
She also said that it's easier on the animal to have all three or two (I'm
debating now) operations done at once. Snip , microchip and declawing
NobodyMan - 09 Apr 2004 00:01 GMT
>> | My cat is approaching the 5 month mark , is it too early for the
>> | snip?
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>She also said that it's easier on the animal to have all three or two (I'm
>debating now) operations done at once. Snip , microchip and declawing

The microchip implantation is not a major project.  They chipped my
kitty when I adopted him for the shelter.  It took them all of maybe
five minutes, including the time needed for me to fill out the
paperwork.  They inject the chip under the skin, similiar to any other
injection.
Sabrina's Mom - 07 Apr 2004 22:41 GMT
The only thing I know is many vets don't recommend putting them under
anethesia until after 6 months....

I did have a friend who's cat passed away during a spayign surgery at 5
months - all because of the anesthesia complications.

And, of course, I'll jump on the declawing bandwagon...  Please reconsider.
Although Sabrina is declawed, I adopted her as an adult cat who had been
declawed by her previous owner who passed away.   If I ever have another
cat, the only way it would be declawed would be thru adoption of an adult
cat, I wouldn't do it myself to a cat that had claws when I adopted him/her.

> Hello All:
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> in one visit but safer for the animal as well.
> ?
JoJo - 08 Apr 2004 04:10 GMT
There can be complications with anesthetic at any age, not just 6 months.
Vet I used to work for said they waited for that age because animals were
about close to "sexual maturity" (testicles descended etc - there may be
other reasons but it goes back years).  Plus the vet did do declaws
recommended age for that was 4 months old, so if anesthetic is ok at that
age for that then why not fixing?  In addition males and females surgeries
are different.  Male cats were given ketamine (which kids are now getting
high on, go figure), knocked them out quickly - neuters are easy, just a few
snips and that was it (vet techs did them routinely as part of their
training).  Females on the other hand got ketamine plus the other stuff
(where they put a tube down throat and give halothane) - since females
organs are inside they have to cut the belly open - a little more involved
than a neuter.  Neuters can take 5 minutes or so - spays take 20 minutes
since it is invasive.

Shelter I foster for routinely fixes kittens as soon as they are over 2 lbs
in weight (generally 8 weeks).  Why do they fix so young?  The found even
with giving free vouchers for spay/neuter people were not getting it done.
They decided this was the best way to ensure pets were fixed and not able to
reproduce.  Most animals come out of it fine, although there are a few
exceptions - just as there is with any surgeries.

JoJo

> The only thing I know is many vets don't recommend putting them under
> anethesia until after 6 months....
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> > in one visit but safer for the animal as well.
> > ?
Q - 07 Apr 2004 22:44 GMT
Ok snip time it is I guess , I shudder to think of what it'll be like if he
started sprayin!

> Hello All:
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> in one visit but safer for the animal as well.
> ?
Tina Laitinen - 08 Apr 2004 04:00 GMT
> Ok snip time it is I guess , I shudder to think of what it'll be like if he
> started sprayin!
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> > in one visit but safer for the animal as well.
> > ?

I'm jumpin on the declawing wagon too. I saw the site and it made me wanna
throw up.  One of ours is declawed we got her that way and she has a ton of
behavorial problems.  She pees on the bed whenever her litter isn't cleaned
or she pees on the bed when she's mad at us.  It's not a good thing.  Please
get him neutered whenever you can.  Learn to clip his claws.  I do it with
our male all the time.  He fights me but it's better than having him
declawed and we've also tried those Soft Paws See posting above and they do
work.  Please please please don't have him declawed.

Tina
Q - 08 Apr 2004 04:10 GMT
> > Ok snip time it is I guess , I shudder to think of what it'll be like if
> he
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> Tina

By way of playing devils advocate , is anyone pro declawing? The scales are
definitly tipping!
Da_Missus - 08 Apr 2004 04:20 GMT
> By way of playing devils advocate , is anyone pro declawing? The scales are
> definitly tipping!

Usually the only cat owners you'll find that are pro-declawing are the ones
who either don't know enough about it, don't want to bother training their
cat how to scratch, or are more worried about their furniture than the pain
of their pet. Sorry to make it as blunt as that, but that's how it is. In my
city, most vets will not declaw a cat, no matter how much the owner wants
it, because it is inhumane. I only wish more vets would follow suit. Listen
to your vet; she recommended against it, didn't she? Think about it: she
cares more about your animal's wellbeing than the money in her pocket.

Trust everyone in here; we are all avid cat lovers and owners who have been
through the 'terrible twos' of kittens (right before they get fixed). They
do grow out of it with your help, patience, positive reinforcement, and
understanding. My oldest not only used to scratch everything, she chewed on
everything as well. She stopped both after some gentle training, treats for
positive reinforcement, and non-cruel punishment for negative behaviour.
Think of this phase as the toddler years for your cat and realize that
eventually he will calm down. Just some more food for thought for you :-)
Q - 08 Apr 2004 04:33 GMT
> > By way of playing devils advocate , is anyone pro declawing? The scales
> are
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Think of this phase as the toddler years for your cat and realize that
> eventually he will calm down. Just some more food for thought for you :-)

   Thank you for your thoughtful comments.
I'm convinced!
    Now all I have to do is convince my wife! The graphics from those
earlier sites may help! Ouch!
I really hope you guy's are right and the sneak attacks will stop. The
little bugger is sleeping and purring on my lap right now.
rangitotogirl - 08 Apr 2004 07:16 GMT
>     Thank you for your thoughtful comments.
> I'm convinced!
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Yay!  Spend the money you saved on declawing on a cat scratching post.
Preferably one with rope on it.  Our kitten loves his cat tree and scratches
it to bits.  He leaves the furniture alone.  It'll be worth it.
Mmhsb - 08 Apr 2004 08:49 GMT
Agreed on declawing. An effective & free training method is using a harmless
water spray. After several sprays cat will stop when they see you pick up
the spray bottle. It appears to insult them as my cats would give me an
incredulous hurt look - but it sure works.

> >     Thank you for your thoughtful comments.
> > I'm convinced!
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Preferably one with rope on it.  Our kitten loves his cat tree and scratches
> it to bits.  He leaves the furniture alone.  It'll be worth it.
Arjun Ray - 08 Apr 2004 11:57 GMT
| I'm convinced!

Great!

| Now all I have to do is convince my wife! The graphics from those
| earlier sites may help! Ouch!

Emphasize the *long term* aspects.  

For instance, many declawed cats develop litterbox avoidance: it hurts
them to scratch at the litter, so eventually they start prefering other
absorbent surfaces.  Such as your carpet.  Or your bed.  Does your wife
want that?  If it happens, is she prepared to live with it?

Another: declawing destroys proper body posture.  The long term risk is
arthritis.  Does your wife want the cat to be in pain later on in life?
How about the vet and medication bills in the future to deal with that?

The facts of the matter are three.  

First, declawing is of *NO* benefit, absolutely none whatsoever, **TO
THE CAT**.  

Second, as a consequence, declawing is not any kind of "solution" at all
- it is simply a myopic grope for a convenient out, as if there won't be
long term implications.  It is usually an act of ignorance: too many
people simply don't know any better, maybe can't be bothered to find
out, and then again can't get their heads around unpleasant facts.  Done
knowingly, it is an act of incredible stupidity and utter contempt for
the wellbeing of companion animals, who will be *trusting* you to take
care of them.

Third, because declawing is *medically* so utterly and gratuitously
destructive of a cat's wellbeing, it shouldn't come as a suprise that
declawing is either condemned or banned in most of the world - as an
instance of *cruelty to an animal*.  In England, a vet would lose his
accreditation.  In Switzerland, he would go to jail.  The US and Canada
are the only countries in the world still uncivilized enough to condone
the practice.  

If your wife can't handle the idea of a pet with claws, she should try
goldfish.  

| I really hope you guy's are right and the sneak attacks will stop.

Kittens are rambunctious.  They learn claw control, among other things,
from playmates.  As long as you discourage inapppropriate behavior
(scream loudly and then ignore him, or gently pick him up and put him at
the scratching post, etc.) you can help him grow otu of it.
Victor Martinez - 08 Apr 2004 13:59 GMT
>     Thank you for your thoughtful comments.
> I'm convinced!
>      Now all I have to do is convince my wife! The graphics from those
> earlier sites may help! Ouch!

Yay! Thank you. In the name of all cats and cat lovers, thank you.

> I really hope you guy's are right and the sneak attacks will stop. The
> little bugger is sleeping and purring on my lap right now.

He will, eventually. We have two teenage cats (about 10 months old)
right now, Fez and Rufous. They are not as feisty as they were a few
months ago, but they're still quite active. In contrast, our oldest cat
Xoxo is extremely laid back, he's over 7 years old.

Signature

Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov
Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com

Mary Ann Morgan - 10 Apr 2004 00:01 GMT
I'm so glad you could be convinced. I can't look at the website as I know
how awful it is, but showing your wife that and telling her of the negative
effects of declawing: aggressive or standoffish behavior, litter box
problems, etc shoulder help her decide,  if she likes animals at all.

My cats use the scratching post with rope too and we have no problem
w/furniture.  Two other humane ways we found (when they were younger) to
train for scratching and jumping on kitchen counter was a spray bottle
w/water, but try not to let them see you spray then they'll associate it
w/you, not the behavior, and temporarily putting aluminium foil on top of
places you don't want them to jump or scratch. They hate the feel and sound
of the foil. When they seem to have learned, remove the foil.  Good luck and
thanks for being a responsible cat owner!!

> >     Thank you for your thoughtful comments.
> > I'm convinced!
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> months ago, but they're still quite active. In contrast, our oldest cat
> Xoxo is extremely laid back, he's over 7 years old.
Q - 10 Apr 2004 04:08 GMT
> I'm so glad you could be convinced. I can't look at the website as I know
> how awful it is, but showing your wife that and telling her of the negative
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> of the foil. When they seem to have learned, remove the foil.  Good luck and
> thanks for being a responsible cat owner!!

   Yes some good ideas all around re tinfoil etc. The "amputation" would
have cost around $250.00 Canadian , so we decided to invest at least half
that much in some high tech scratching posts/that rope that was mentioned
somewhere earlier. He gets the snip and chip on Tuesday. In and out same
day.
Mmhsb - 10 Apr 2004 05:44 GMT
Often the Vet trims their nails when they're under so that the cat doesn't
harm itself or others during recovery. So he won't be able to scratch for
awhile. That will give him awhile to forget his previous ways & once they
grow enough he'll be gaga with his deluxe scratching post. If he starts
again, try the water spray I suggested earlier & another mentioned. It's a
#1 deterrent. Good luck Tues.!

> > I'm so glad you could be convinced. I can't look at the website as I know
> > how awful it is, but showing your wife that and telling her of the
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> somewhere earlier. He gets the snip and chip on Tuesday. In and out same
> day.
Da_Missus - 10 Apr 2004 16:29 GMT
> > I'm so glad you could be convinced. I can't look at the website as I know
> > how awful it is, but showing your wife that and telling her of the
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> somewhere earlier. He gets the snip and chip on Tuesday. In and out same
> day.

This message made my day! I'm so glad you and your wife decided to avoid the
declawing procedure. In return you will have a happier, content, and (once
he gets older) calm cat.
MaryL - 10 Apr 2004 17:03 GMT
>     Yes some good ideas all around re tinfoil etc. The "amputation" would
> have cost around $250.00 Canadian , so we decided to invest at least half
> that much in some high tech scratching posts/that rope that was mentioned
> somewhere earlier. He gets the snip and chip on Tuesday. In and out same
> day.

This is wonderful news.  I am so glad you and your wife have decided not to
have your cat declawed.  When you get scratching posts, be sure to get them
as tall and sturdy as possible.  A cat can place a surprising amount of
leverage against a post, and he may become frightened and refuse to use it
again if one topples over.  I'm not sure what is available in Canada, but
PetSmart in the U.S. has an excellent post that is about 36" tall.  It has
an "L-shaped" base, so the cat stands on the base while scratching.  This
provides even more stability.  This model is available with a carpeted pole
or with one with small amounts of carpet at the top and bottom but with most
of the pole carpeted in sisal (which is the one I have).  I paid about US
$39.00 for it.  I also have a wonderful cat tree.  It is made of solid wood
with two carpeted poles, one sisal-covered post, and an enclosed upright
tunnel.  The cats love it, and Duffy has become a true gymnast while
swinging around from one post to another.  I ordered mine from
www.createacatcondo.com.

I have been able to easily train all of my cats to use scratching posts, and
I have done it without any punishment.  The key is to be persistent when you
start the training, and get them to look at the post as something pleasant
and positive.  Positive reinforcement is always better than negative
reinforcement, in my opinion.  When training each cat, I watched carefully
and was alert for any sign that he or she was going to scratch anywhere
other than the post.  The I would say "no" and either go to the post and tap
it and call to him, or even pick up the cat and carry him to the post.  Tap
the post or scratch it with your fingers or pull a small toy on a string up
and down the post to get his attention (but be careful not to leave the
string lying around when you are not present to make sure your cat cannot
become entangled).  Then praise your cat *lavishly* as soon as he uses the
scratching post.  This took only a few days for each of my cats, and I have
not had any problems with damaged furniture or carpeting.  I expected to
need extra time for Duffy because he is blind and it was obvious when I
adopted him at approximately 4 years of age that he had never used a
scratching post.  However, he learned in only a couple of days.  Of course,
if you have read many of my messages, you probably know by now that I
consider him my miracle cat!   ;o)

MaryL
(take out the litter to reply)

Photos of Duffy and Holly:      >'o'<
http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly)
http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in")
MaryL - 09 Apr 2004 00:22 GMT
> Hello All:
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> in one visit but safer for the animal as well.
> ?

At one time, the concensus was that we should wait until 6-8 months of age
to neuter a male cat.  However, that was *years* ago.  Cats are now
routinely spayed and neutered at much younger ages, and there should be no
problem as long as your vet is trained to use the procedure in young cats
(and your cat at 5 months has almost reached the "former" guideline).  You
would be much better off to have your cat neutered *before* he begins to
spray.

Please, please, please *do not have your cat declawed.*  Many people do not
realize what a devastating surgery this is -- it is actually a form of
amputation.  Ironically, most people who have their cats declawed think they
will save their furniture.  However, about one-third of declawed cats
develop behavioral and/or medical problems, including biting, inappropriate
urination, spraying, and early onset of arthritis.  Not all declawed cats
develop problems, but the statistics are much higher for declawed cats than
for cats that retain their claws.  Visit almost any animal shelter, and you
will find many declawed cats that have been dumped because of "behavioral"
problems.  Your cat can be trained to use a scratching post, but imagine the
cost (and the stench!) if your cat starts to spray indoors.  Therefore,
there are many good reasons not to declaw:  most important, the fact that
the cat needs his claws and will face unnecessary pain and possibly
emotional problems if you go forward with the procedure; next, it simply
isn't necessary because cats can be trained to use a scratching post (I have
done it with each of mine, and it was not difficult -- just *ask,* and you
will find that we can give you help on how to do it); finally, you mentioned
some concerns about finances, but you could buy some very sturdy scratching
posts for what declawing would costs.

MaryL
(take out the litter to reply)

Photos of Duffy and Holly:      >'o'<
http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly)
http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in")
Mary Ann Morgan - 10 Apr 2004 00:04 GMT
Another BIG negative for declawing, is if you cat ever happens to get
outside they have NO protection.  Most cats use their claws to scratch a
dog's nose and give it enough time to climb a tree or something else, but
they can't do either if they have no claws.  And teeth alone wouldn't help
against a tough outside cat w/teeth AND claws.

> > Hello All:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly)
> http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in")
kilikini - 10 Apr 2004 01:44 GMT
> Another BIG negative for declawing, is if you cat ever happens to get
> outside they have NO protection.  Most cats use their claws to scratch a
> dog's nose and give it enough time to climb a tree or something else, but
> they can't do either if they have no claws.  And teeth alone wouldn't help
> against a tough outside cat w/teeth AND claws.

My cat doesn't tolerate my dog (he's too boisterous and curious), but when
she smacks him, she does it claws in, not out.  You can hear a resounding
SLAP as she bats his nose.  It's alarming when you first hear it, but then
on close inspection of his snout, it's perfect.  Not a scratch.  I give her
alot of credit because even *I* think the dog is too much to take sometimes!
LOL

kili
NobodyMan - 10 Apr 2004 02:26 GMT
>Another BIG negative for declawing, is if you cat ever happens to get
>outside they have NO protection.  Most cats use their claws to scratch a
>dog's nose and give it enough time to climb a tree or something else, but
>they can't do either if they have no claws.  And teeth alone wouldn't help
>against a tough outside cat w/teeth AND claws.

I copied this from the last post I responded to about a cat needing
claws:

"The last several cats my parents have had were all declawed.  These
were cats that spent most of their time inside, but a decent amount
outside as well, especially in the summer.  None of them ever suffered
from not having their front claws (the rear claws were left intact).
In fact, a few were mighty hunters even with no front claws, brining
home fresh food on a regular basis."

I don't condone declawing cats.  Neither of the cats I shared my homes
with have ever been declawed, nor have I ever desired it to be done to
them.  My parents have chosen to have their kitties declawed, and if
you read above, the cats survive when they go outside just fine.  A
couple of those cats were found in trees, so they climbed up them just
fine without those front claws.

Cats mainly use the front claws to grip with while they "rake" with
the back claws.
 
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