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Antifreeze Kills

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John - 24 Apr 2008 17:12 GMT
After losing our best friend and dearest companion Barrie, a beautiful
ginger cat to antifreeze poisoning we felt the need to inform as many people
as possible. We stared by handing out pamphlets door to door in the area we
lived to warn others about the dangers and symptoms of antifreeze poisoning.
We have also notified the press and with help from the Animal Concern Advice
Line (ACAL) and the Scottish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to
Animals (SSPCA) the word has been spread even further.

Please visit http://www.antifreezekills.co.uk/ and sign our petition to the
Gordon Brown. We need over 200 signatures to get a response.

Thank you
John
William Graham - 24 Apr 2008 21:01 GMT
> After losing our best friend and dearest companion Barrie, a beautiful
> ginger cat to antifreeze poisoning we felt the need to inform as many
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Thank you
> John

You have done all you could......Thank you.

Here, there are many localities that have banned Ethylene Glycol, and there
have been developed good alternatives to that substance in anti-freeze. They
can also produce E.G. based anti freezes that have additives that make it
highly unpalatable to both animals and people. Keep up the good work.......
Cat Guy - 26 Apr 2008 15:52 GMT
> > After losing our best friend and dearest companion Barrie, a
> > beautiful ginger cat to antifreeze poisoning we felt the need
> > to inform as many people as possible.

Was this poisoning intentional?

Was antifreeze left out on purpose by a neighbor - specifically to
kill you cat, or other cats, or other animals?

> Here, there are many localities that have banned Ethylene Glycol,

There is no reason to ban a product that performs very well as a
coolant for vehicles.

I think the occurrance rate of coolant leaking from cars (and pooling
such that it can be licked by animals) is practically zero.

It's never happened in my neighborhood.
deannie - 26 Apr 2008 17:17 GMT
> > > After losing our best friend and dearest companion Barrie, a
> > > beautiful ginger cat to antifreeze poisoning we felt the need
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> It's never happened in my neighborhood.

did you know that for humans the antidote for anti-freeze poisoning in
alcohol? either orally or I.V  good to know
William Graham - 26 Apr 2008 22:10 GMT
>> > > After losing our best friend and dearest companion Barrie, a
>> > > beautiful ginger cat to antifreeze poisoning we felt the need
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> did you know that for humans the antidote for anti-freeze poisoning in
> alcohol? either orally or I.V  good to know

Yes. This is because the enzymes in the liver will convert the ethylene
glycol into a poisonous substance, but these are the same enzymes that are
used to convert alcohol, and you can overload them with alcohol, so there
won't be enough left over to convert the ethylene glycol into something more
poisonous, so it will pass through harmlessly.......I think (IIRC) the name
of this enzyme is, "Hydrogenese", but it was a long time ago that I read
about it, so perhaps I am wrong on this......
deannie - 30 Apr 2008 07:46 GMT
> >> > > After losing our best friend and dearest companion Barrie, a
> >> > > beautiful ginger cat to antifreeze poisoning we felt the need
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> of this enzyme is, "Hydrogenese", but it was a long time ago that I read
> about it, so perhaps I am wrong on this......

Thanks for explaining that.  Very interesting  Are  you a bit of an
alchemist?
William Graham - 30 Apr 2008 17:10 GMT
>> >> > > After losing our best friend and dearest companion Barrie, a
>> >> > > beautiful ginger cat to antifreeze poisoning we felt the need
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> Thanks for explaining that.  Very interesting  Are  you a bit of an
> alchemist?
No, but I had a job where I was baby-sitting a machine in the middle of the
night at a large university.....They received a science journal, which I
would read religiously......It contained mostly biological papers written by
PhD candidates and the like. Even though I was a "hard sciences" guy (math
and the like) I gradually learned lots of stuff by reading this
journal....Of course, since I didn't do this for a living, I forgot most of
it. Just as I forgot everything I learned about dairy farming by listening
to two dairy farmers arguing with each other while I was in the Navy.....:^)
deannie - 07 May 2008 22:28 GMT
> >> "deannie" <nadine...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> it. Just as I forgot everything I learned about dairy farming by listening
> to two dairy farmers arguing with each other while I was in the Navy.....:^)

Sounds like your life has been interesting.
William Graham - 07 May 2008 22:44 GMT
>> >> "deannie" <nadine...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
[quoted text clipped - 58 lines]
>
> Sounds like your life has been interesting.

Yeah.....I've been pretty lucky.....I got a good grammar school education
back in the 40's in NYC, and then I spent 4 years in the Navy in between two
wars. (Korea and Vietnam) then after 8 miserable years crawling around
fixing IBM machines, I got a job I really liked at a high energy physics lab
at Stanford University. There is nothing better than working at a job you
like.....Don't ever stay with one you don't like.....The money is never
worth it. Somewhere along the way, I got a BS degree in mathematics, which
was good for impressing people, but not really worth much for anything else.
If you like playing games, math is the easiest, and most fun way to go in
college. It's like a four year course in playing chess, and it gets your
foot in the door almost anywhere you want to work.
Kathy - 08 May 2008 20:03 GMT
> Yeah.....I've been pretty lucky.....I got a good grammar school education
> back in the 40's in NYC, and then I spent 4 years in the Navy in between
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> fun way to go in college. It's like a four year course in playing chess,
> and it gets your foot in the door almost anywhere you want to work.
Wiliam, you have been lucky - my dear huby has a bachelors and a masters in
Mathematics. After 20 + years in computer science, he's now a math teacher
who's being driven out of his mind by high school math students... Yeah,
good work.... Sigh....
William Graham - 08 May 2008 22:05 GMT
>> Yeah.....I've been pretty lucky.....I got a good grammar school education
>> back in the 40's in NYC, and then I spent 4 years in the Navy in between
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> teacher who's being driven out of his mind by high school math students...
> Yeah, good work.... Sigh....

I feel for him.....Perhaps he should try getting a job at a University, or
local Junior college.....The students he will find there are a bit more
mature, and easier to teach. But this reminds me of a story....

When I was in High School back East, I had a Geometry Teacher (Geometry I)
who was a drunk. She missed every Monday morning, and the rest of the week,
she just stared at the rear wall of the room and never said anything. After
a couple of days, one third of the class left, and never returned. The rest
of us divided ourselves into study groups, and assigned ourselves homework
from the book. In class, each group would put one of the homework problems
on the board, and discuss it. Then, we would go on to the next section of
the book and repeat the process. With only people who were actually
interested in learning the subject, the class went amazingly well, and we
all learned a lot about geometry. We all scored very high on the regence
examination at the end of the semester. And don't forget....We essentially
had no teacher at all! So when your husband complains that disruptive
students make it hard for him to teach, I can really identify with
that.....With no disruptive students, he wouldn't even have to come to
class. - They would learn without him even being there!
deannie - 09 May 2008 23:02 GMT
> >> Yeah.....I've been pretty lucky.....I got a good grammar school education
> >> back in the 40's in NYC, and then I spent 4 years in the Navy in between
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> that.....With no disruptive students, he wouldn't even have to come to
> class. - They would learn without him even being there!

Does anyone have a cat?  I miss my cat.  He was my best friend.  A cat
is what makes a home.  Any cat stories out there? Warms the heart.
Ivor Jones - 09 May 2008 23:25 GMT
[snip]

: Does anyone have a cat?  I miss my cat.  He was my best friend.  A cat
: is what makes a home.  Any cat stories out there? Warms the heart.

Yep, let's get back on topic ;-)

Here's a good place for cat stories:

www.flippyscatpage.com

Here's a page about my cat Missy

www.g6urp.co.uk/missy

Ivor
Ivor Jones - 09 May 2008 23:26 GMT
In news:68k1agF2tcgulU1@mid.individual.net,
Ivor Jones <ivor@thisaddressis.invalid> typed, for some strange,
unexplained reason:

[snip]

: Here's a page about my cat Missy
:
: www.g6urp.co.uk/missy

Oops I forgot I edited the site the other day, try

www.g6urp.co.uk/cats/missy :-)

Ivor
deannie - 10 May 2008 03:59 GMT
> Innews:fb1209b5-ab61-4582-b597-f11898f6a505@q27g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
> deannie <nadine...@gmail.com> typed, for some strange, unexplained reason:
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Ivor

Thanks for that.  I had a cat called Missy too.  She was black and
white.  A real fussy, prissy cat.
Kathy - 10 May 2008 00:48 GMT
>>> Yeah.....I've been pretty lucky.....I got a good grammar school
>>> education
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> even have to come to class. - They would learn without him even being
> there!
Thanks - I don't think that'll make him feel any better - his department
head sounds a lot like your teacher....
replyonusenet@emailprivate.com - 26 Apr 2008 18:04 GMT
>I think the occurrance rate of coolant leaking from cars (and pooling
>such that it can be licked by animals) is practically zero.
Let me guess: you've never had a car that leaked anti freeeze?

Over the years i've had a number of cars leak anti freeze.
My current car is the first one that didn't leak.

Oh and anti freeze is needed here since it gets
below freezing from October through April.  And it can
stay below freezing for months at a time.
Cat Guy - 27 Apr 2008 02:33 GMT

> > I think the occurrance rate of coolant leaking from cars (and
> > pooling such that it can be licked by animals) is practically
> > zero.
>
> Let me guess: you've never had a car that leaked anti freeeze?

Any car that leaks an appreciable amount of antifreeze will soon be a
car sitting at the side of the road with the hood up while the owner
has his/her cell phone to their head calling for a tow truck.

My daily driver is a '00 Chrysler 300m.  I bought it new.  It's 8+
years old.  I've NEVER EVEN CHANGED THE ANTIFREEZE IN IT.  IT's still
got it's original coolant.  I've never added any water or needed to
top it up.

It's not rocket science to design a car that doesn't leak coolant.

> Over the years i've had a number of cars leak anti freeze.

Well you're a luser then.  And irresponsible.

> My current car is the first one that didn't leak.

I've owned, restored and rebuilt several cars from the 1960's and
early 1970's.  A coolant leak is VERY easy to detect when it starts,
and VERY easy to fix, and a leak is not something you can easily put
up with for long without fixing it.
replyonusenet@emailprivate.com - 27 Apr 2008 03:56 GMT
>> > I think the occurrance rate of coolant leaking from cars (and
>> > pooling such that it can be licked by animals) is practically
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>It's not rocket science to design a car that doesn't leak coolant.
Let me put it this way:
I've owned alot of cars over the years.   A lot of cars.  Every one
of them with one exception leaked anti freee.  

>> My current car is the first one that didn't leak.
>
>I've owned, restored and rebuilt several cars from the 1960's and
>early 1970's.  A coolant leak is VERY easy to detect when it starts,
>and VERY easy to fix, and a leak is not something you can easily put
>up with for long without fixing it.
Well our local mechanics could never get it fixed.
William Graham - 27 Apr 2008 06:28 GMT
>>> > I think the occurrance rate of coolant leaking from cars (and
>>> > pooling such that it can be licked by animals) is practically
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>>up with for long without fixing it.
> Well our local mechanics could never get it fixed.

Once you find exactly where the leak is, and mark that spot with paint, you
can drain out the coolant and fix the leak with solder.
Stan Brown - 27 Apr 2008 12:02 GMT
Sat, 26 Apr 2008 22:56:23 -0400 from  
<replyonusenet@emailprivate.com>:

> Let me put it this way:
> I've owned alot of cars over the years.   A lot of cars.  Every one
> of them with one exception leaked anti freee.  

Then every one of them without exception was poorly maintained, or
else you put in too much antifreeze (which is a form of poor
maintenance).

Signature

Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
                                  http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

Ivor Jones - 27 Apr 2008 16:37 GMT
In news:4lq714t4o1lep8us5p6mtonkjuq9nsci27@4ax.com,
replyonusenet@emailprivate.com <replyonusenet@emailprivate.com> typed, for
some strange, unexplained reason:

[snip]

: Let me put it this way:
: I've owned alot of cars over the years.   A lot of cars.  Every one
: of them with one exception leaked anti freee.

My 6-yr old Ford Fiesta, bought from new, has never leaked anything,
water, oil, whatever. It has, though, been regularly serviced according to
the manufacturer's instructions. Maybe those that leak all over the place
haven't been..?

Ivor
Matthew - 26 Apr 2008 18:07 GMT
>> > After losing our best friend and dearest companion Barrie, a
>> > beautiful ginger cat to antifreeze poisoning we felt the need
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> There is no reason to ban a product that performs very well as a
> coolant for vehicles.

Yes there is  the product also damages the environment and is also dangerous
to animal   2 very good reasons to get rid of it

> I think the occurrance rate of coolant leaking from cars (and pooling
> such that it can be licked by animals) is practically zero.
>
> It's never happened in my neighborhood.

That you know of.  I am in the USA not sure where you are in the world  but
it happens all the time due to stupidity, accidental.

Antifreeze is a sweet smell sweet taste to cats and dogs who will drink it
if it there
Upscale - 26 Apr 2008 19:47 GMT
"Cat Guy" <Cat@Guy.com> wrote in message
> > > After losing our best friend and dearest companion Barrie, a
> > > beautiful ginger cat to antifreeze poisoning we felt the need
> > > to inform as many people as possible.
>
> I think the occurrance rate of coolant leaking from cars (and pooling
> such that it can be licked by animals) is practically zero.

Next time while you're "thinking", try a little investigation before
posting. Antifreeze poisoning happens thousands of times, all year around in
all environments. Statistics estimate some 10,000 accidental poisonings a
year. Even a small amount can be fatal for cats and dogs. Children aren't
immune to accidental poisoning either. Do a Google search for "antifreeze
poisoning".

http://www.petshealth.com/dr_library/antifreeze.html
William Graham - 26 Apr 2008 22:05 GMT
>> > After losing our best friend and dearest companion Barrie, a
>> > beautiful ginger cat to antifreeze poisoning we felt the need
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> It's never happened in my neighborhood.

It happens in areas where there are a lot of people working on their cars,
and other people's cars.......And almost everyone keeps cats and/or dogs, so
the animals can be poisoned easily......Especially the dogs, because they
like sweet tasting things, and are far less careful about what they eat than
are the cats. Also small children can be poisoned by ethylene glycol. I
think banning it is not a bad thing, as long as special exceptions to the
law can be obtained. In most cases, the anti-freeze substitutes will work
fine.
Cat Guy - 27 Apr 2008 02:40 GMT
> > It's never happened in my neighborhood.
>
> It happens in areas where there are a lot of people working on
> their cars, and other people's cars...

Ok, - I guess I don't see it because I don't live on skid row.

I would bet that pets living in or around a blighted area where sloppy
people work on their own cars have more to worry about than antifreeze
poisoning.  In a perfect world, those pets would all be spayed /
neutered, have all their vaccinations, and then we'd worry about
whether or not there was any antifreeze laying around...
Kathy - 27 Apr 2008 03:34 GMT
>> > It's never happened in my neighborhood.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> neutered, have all their vaccinations, and then we'd worry about
> whether or not there was any antifreeze laying around...

Sorry to tell you this, but my brother, who restores and creates cars for
people and himself, once had a small amount of antifreeze leak onto the
garage floor. Thier beagle managed to find it and died of anti-freeze
poisoning. It's not something that only happens on skid row. It also happens
when you can't see under the car and the dog or cat can. A few drops is
enough...
William Graham - 27 Apr 2008 06:26 GMT
>>> > It's never happened in my neighborhood.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> happens when you can't see under the car and the dog or cat can. A few
> drops is enough...
Yes, and from watching, "Court" TV, I can tell you that sometimes housewives
use it to poison their husbands.....:^)

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