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Cat Forum / General Topics / April 2007alternative food choice
http://www.hillspet.com/_refacing/utilities/SiteSelector.jsp http://www.purina.com/ http://menufoods.com/recall/ My babies eat Dry Science Diet not the type recalled although I will not use any Hills products at this time. I am ready to cook for them does anyone have any good home cooked recipes? I also give them Fancy Feast , how would I prepare fish for them? raw?They love the sliced Turkey lunch meat and the sound of the container sends them running. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jan >My babies eat Dry Science Diet not the type recalled although >I will not use any Hills products at this time. I am ready to cook for them >does anyone have any good home cooked recipes? What do you want to bet that in the next six months more cats will be adversely affected by contaminants in home-prepared foods than in commercial foods? Think, people! You can't avoid contamination by home preparation. The home preparer is just as apt to get contaminated ingredients as the commercial preparer. And the home preparer is statistically *far* more likely to introduce contaminants in the preparation process. Avoiding foods with wheat gluten in them for the next couple months makes sense. Though it is not yet certain that the wheat gluten was the source of contamination, there is at least a statistical correlation -- which is why the recall was instigated. But however hard it may be to believe -- given the human propensity for overestimating risks associated with highly publicized events -- your chances are still better with a commercial food than with home preparation.  SignatureWayne M. (with purrs from Will and Heidi) Wayne, Thank you very much you are right, I am just frusted and worried as most pet owners are. I bought some organinic food today they seem to like it. Jan :-) >>My babies eat Dry Science Diet not the type recalled although >>I will not use any Hills products at this time. I am ready to cook for [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > associated with highly publicized events -- your chances are still > better with a commercial food than with home preparation. >>My babies eat Dry Science Diet not the type recalled although >>I will not use any Hills products at this time. I am ready to cook for [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > associated with highly publicized events -- your chances are still > better with a commercial food than with home preparation. I have been feeding my cats home roasted chicken for years now.....I find whole chicken bodies on sale at various supers for like 69 cents a pound, and I take them home, wash them in cold water, put them in a large cast iron frying pan, and roast them for an hour at 350 degrees F. I don't see how they can get, "contaminated" in any way. Are they the best food my cat can eat? - Probably not, but at least I know they are not contaminated by rat poison and/or fertilizer, and right now, that is of paramount importance. I see huge lists of cat foods that I can't feed my cat, but no list of foods that I can......I don't draw any good conclusions from this fact. If I feed my cats something that isn't on the list, and it kills them, and I sue the list makers, they will say that they aren't responsible for some off-brand item that should have been on the list, but wasn't. If, on the other hand, they published a list of OK foods, and one of them poisoned my cats, then they would be open for a lawsuit. Unless and until someone has the balls to publish a list of good foods, I will continue to feed my cats people food. Roasted chicken is good, but so is any other fresh meat such as pork or lamb if you can afford it. Canned meat is OK too, such as canned salmon or tuna packed in spring water. I'm sure your cats will survive until they get the contaminants out of regular cat food, but as someone else said, I won't trust the expensive stuff anymore, since it comes from the same plants as the cheap Wall-Mart food..........IOW, its all marketing hype. You really can't do any better, IMO, than buy and cook the same food for your cats as you fix for yourself.....If they need some special supplement, then buy it from your vet and add it to their food........ William, Thanks for the information I was looking at the canned fish and chicken ,I remembered something about mercury used in packing. >>>My babies eat Dry Science Diet not the type recalled although >>>I will not use any Hills products at this time. I am ready to cook for [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > yourself.....If they need some special supplement, then buy it from your > vet and add it to their food........ > William, > Thanks for the information I was looking at the canned fish > and chicken ,I remembered something about mercury used > in packing. Mercury isn't used in packing canned fish. It already exists in the fish, whether they are canned or not. It gets there from industrial waste that had been dumped into the streams and ocean by processes that utilize mercury, usually to extract gold from recycled PC cards and the like. It tends to accumulate in the fish. - It is equally bad for both humans and cats. Fortunately, the quantity is rather small, so if you just eat fish once in a while, it will probably do you no harm........ >> William, >> Thanks for the information I was looking at the canned fish [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Fortunately, the quantity is rather small, so if you just eat fish once in a > while, it will probably do you no harm........ Mercury is a cumulative neurotoxin. SignatureNicolaas >>> William, >>> Thanks for the information I was looking at the canned fish [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Mercury is a cumulative neurotoxin. Yes....That's where the term, "Mad hatter" came from....They used to use mercury in the manufacture of hats, and the hatters would gradually go bonkers from ingesting it..... >> William, >> Thanks for the information I was looking at the canned fish [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > once in a while, it will probably do you no > harm........ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks, I do not eat tuna, I just remembered something about mercury. >Jan > I don't see how >they can get, "contaminated" in any way. Ah, but that's the nature of contamination. By definition, it has to be something we didn't anticipate -- else we'd have prevented it. Often we can't discover the source, even after we know that the food is contaminated, because the mechanism is beyond our imagination. SignatureWayne M. (with purrs from Will and Heidi) >> I don't see how >>they can get, "contaminated" in any way. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > can't discover the source, even after we know that the food is > contaminated, because the mechanism is beyond our imagination. Perhaps, but all animals have to eat. Both humans and cats. So, we either have to take a chance on an unknown industrial cannery whose processes and procedures are shrouded in mystery, or we can go to the supermarket and buy the freshest food we can get, and cook and prepare it ourselves.....I simply choose to do the latter. - I know there is no guarantee, but I can maximize my (and my cats) chances of getting the purest food possible that way.......If I lived in farm country, I would grow my own chickens, but unfortunately, I don't, so I have to trust the super to provide fresh ones to me. >So, we either >have to take a chance on an unknown industrial cannery whose processes and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >my (and my cats) chances of getting the purest food possible that >way This was precisely the assumption that I was calling into question. SignatureWayne M. >>So, we either >>have to take a chance on an unknown industrial cannery whose processes and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > This was precisely the assumption that I was calling into question. Well. I have been preparing food in my kitchen for kids and pets for over 50 years now, and I haven't poisoned anyone yet....Of course, I have no jars of insecticide and/or fertilizer on my shelves, either. The real difference is between the known and the unknown. When you buy something off the shelf in a can at the super, you have no idea how, or by whom, it was prepared.....In my case, I can't even identify some of the ingredients from their chemical names on the label. Components used, "as a preservative", or "to preserve color" are a mystery to me....For all I know, they cause cancer or allergic reactions that may result in death. In general, I put nothing in my cats food except meat. It doesn't keep, because if the cats don't eat it in a reasonable period of time, I throw it out. It's color isn't preserved, because neither I nor my cats care about that. I usually eat some of it myself, and if I don't get sick, neither (I trust) will my cats. But most important, I do it myself, and taste the results myself.....I eat pieces of the meat as I prepare it for the cats.....Frequently a chicken sandwich with Mayo from the same chicken, for example....When we go, we will all go together....:^) <snip> > Ah, but that's the nature of contamination. By definition, it has to be > something we didn't anticipate -- else we'd have prevented it. Often we [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Wayne M. > (with purrs from Will and Heidi) Ah, more hyperbole & misinformation from you. Contaminate -noun something that contaminates. Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, ? Random House, Inc. 2006. I challenge you to find any reference to the word contaminate or contamination that states or implies said contamination is by definition unanticipated. Please either add opinion, stated as such, or fact with reference, or expect to have your comments treated with the disdain it appears they deserve. > <snip> > > Ah, but that's the nature of contamination. By definition, it has to be [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > expect to have your comments treated with the disdain it appears they > deserve. Silly me. Forgot to add a request for some reasoning behind the source of any contamination being 'beyond our imagination' too. Are you suggesting 'supernatural' agencies now? >Silly me. Forgot to add a request for some reasoning behind the source >of any contamination being 'beyond our imagination' too. Are you >suggesting 'supernatural' agencies now? Silly me, if I were. What I meant -- in case it really wasn't clear -- was that for some of the rarer cases of in-home food contamination, we may not discover a source because we could never imagine that it would happen in the way it did and don't know where to look. SignatureWayne M. >I challenge you to find any reference to the word contaminate or >contamination that states or implies said contamination is by >definition unanticipated. I rather like this one form homefoodsafety.org: "Contamination the unintended presence in food of potentially harmful substances, including microorganisms, chemicals and physical objects." I would say that "unintended" comes close enough to "unanticipated". My point, which you may have missed, was that if it is anticipated, it doesn't happen. In that sense, it is defined by its unexpectedness. SignatureWayne M. >>I challenge you to find any reference to the word contaminate or >>contamination that states or implies said contamination is by [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > My point, which you may have missed, was that if it is anticipated, it > doesn't happen. In that sense, it is defined by its unexpectedness. While I have no argument with all this, I still like the control that I have over the food when I prepare it myself....It's kind of like flying vs. driving....Sure, statistically, you are safer when you fly, but it terrifies me to give that much control to someone else, so I would rather drive. And the same thing is true of the pet food. Statistically, they can prepare millions of meals without any significant contamination. But if there was some, I would have no control over it. So, I would rather prepare it myself, and take on the responsibility of avoiding the contamination myself, because at least, I am in control, and the old adage, "If you want something done right, then do it yourself " comes into play..... <snip> > And the home preparer is statistically *far* more > likely to introduce contaminants in the preparation process. > Wayne M. > (with purrs from Will and Heidi) Please cite the study/references for your claim of a greater statistical probability of contamination through home preparation of pet foods or please stop stating your own opinion as fact. You are are adding nothing but more fear to this problem. >Please cite the study/references for your claim of a greater >statistical probability of contamination through home preparation of >pet foods or please stop stating your own opinion as fact. Well, it's not my opinion particularly. It's something I read frequently. Here's an example: http://www.science.org.au/nova/030/030key.htm "Most food-poisonings are the result of 'food abuse' during transport and final preparation, particularly in the home. When food-poisoning does result from food prepared in the home, it is rarely recognized or reported...." It's a dog-bites-man assertion after all. The home kitchen is not a single-use environment, nor is it a controlled environment. Opportunities for cross-contamination are obviously much higher, and I would expect non-microbial contaminants -- pesticides, heavy metals, petroleum products, textile additives, etc. -- would also be more likely to be encountered in a home kitchen than in commercial food manufacturing plants. If we don't have direct statistical information, we certainly can extrapolate from surveys such as this one cited by the FDA: http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/1998/598_cook.html "According to a survey conducted across the country in late 1997, when people prepared meals in their own kitchens, they failed to follow food safety and sanitation practices over 99 percent of the time." > You are are >adding nothing but more fear to this problem. Actually, I have been trying all along to ease people's fears about commercial pet foods. My point, after all, was not to say that food contamination happens that often in home preparation -- it doesn't. But it happens far less often in commercially prepared pet foods. SignatureWayne M. Hi, Look at those links.. that's where am heading for my cat http://www.pet-grub.com/ http://www.rawfedcats.org/ >>My babies eat Dry Science Diet not the type recalled although >>I will not use any Hills products at this time. I am ready to cook for [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > associated with highly publicized events -- your chances are still > better with a commercial food than with home preparation. > Hi, > Look at those links.. that's where am heading for my cat [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> associated with highly publicized events -- your chances are still >> better with a commercial food than with home preparation. Well, I agree with one thing....The part where you say, "Think people." - Think for yourselves, and prepare good foods for your cats to eat until the poisoned junk is off the market.... I don't know why some people seem to think that everyone is an idiot except them.....Are these liberals by any chance? - I think probably so. Why would it be ok for you to spend your whole life preparing food in your own kitchen for yourself and your own family, but then you are suddenly a hopeless incompetent when you try to prepare something for your cat? - This doesn't make any sense....The "professionals" who do all this sophisticated preparing have already shown us their incompetence....Witness the recall list......So what's the third alternative? Trust some other unknown third party? - I think not....I'll feed my cats what I eat, thanks....... William E. Graham, Salem, Oregon >Why would it be ok for you to spend your whole life preparing food in >your own kitchen for yourself and your own family, but then you are suddenly >a hopeless incompetent when you try to prepare something for your cat? No one has suggested that anything *changes* when you prepare food for your cat -- that your cat is any more at risk than you are. The risk of contamination from home-prepared *human* foods is higher than from factory-packaged. People are just not as aware of the risks in their own homes. "Consumers believe that they're doing a better job assuring a safe food supply than food processors and restaurants. However, most consumers' kitchen practices place them at risk for foodborne illness....The surveyed households averaged 1.7 critical violations. Cross contamination occurred in 31% of the kitchens..." http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3289/is_8_168/ai_55778116 SignatureWayne M. > What do you want to bet that in the next six months more cats will be > adversely affected by contaminants in home-prepared foods than in [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > commercial preparer. And the home preparer is statistically *far* more > likely to introduce contaminants in the preparation process. What contamination by home preparation are you talkingabout? I don't thinks anyone carring for his cat will had windex, spic&span or rat poison in his cat food preparation, do you? As for bacteria , cats don't care about these.... they don't have the same digestive system than humans... they can go outdor and eat birds , mice, bugs, spiders, flies even dead ones and they won't get ill, their stomact produce so much acid that no bacteria can resist. They are pure carnivorious, they don't eat grain, corn and all that dried sh.t. Feeding them raw is feeding them natturally Food pet companies make billions of profits every years...... they don't want us, cats lover to switch for raw food . Have you any interest in that food sector? So, what contanination by home preparation are you talking about? >> What do you want to bet that in the next six months more cats will be >> adversely affected by contaminants in home-prepared foods than in [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > So, what contanination by home preparation are you talking about? I think Wayne Mitchell has an ax to grind....He must work for a cat food company, or have some intimate connection with one. Either that, or he is a hopeless liberal who believes that some (probably government related) authority should be involved with everything. The idea that there are competent people who can still think for themselves is totally alien to him. Many cats have lost their lives to this contaminated food. The legacy they leave behind them will be the thousands of us who have learned to prepare good food for our own cats, just as we have done for ourselves. The cat food manufacturers will suffer for their mistakes in lost revenues over the next ten years or more. And this is as it should be. Maybe they will learn something and be more careful with what they put in their food. >I think Wayne Mitchell has an ax to grind....He must work for a cat food >company, or have some intimate connection with one. Nope. Never have. > Many cats have lost their lives to this contaminated food. Sadly, this appears to be true (although only a few have yet been confirmed). We will never know how many cats have lost their lives to contaminated home-prepared foods because such events don't get reported -- either to data collecting authority or in the news media. SignatureWayne M. >What contamination by home preparation are you talkingabout? As I mentioned before, microbial contamination is by far the most likely, but pesticides, heavy metals, petroleum products, etc. are also more likely to be out of place in a home kitchen than in a manufactury. >I don't thinks anyone carring for his cat will had windex, spic&span or rat >poison in his cat food preparation, do you? Accidentally? It happens. >As for bacteria , cats don't care about these This is something of a misconception. "Animals do not build up a resistance to the bacteria that cause food poisoning." http://www.philadelphiazoo.blogspot.com/ > Feeding >them raw is feeding them natturally True, but nature doesn't have the same standards that I do. By nature's standards, it's okay if most cats die young and those that survive to reproductive age carry diseases most of their lives. >Food pet companies make billions of profits every years...... they don't >want us, cats lover to switch for raw food . Have you any interest in that >food sector? None whatever. My only concern is for the health of cats who may be poisoned by people who buy into the myth that foods prepared in the home kitchen are less subject to contamination than foods packaged at the factory. SignatureWayne M. |
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