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Pet Food Recall

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Mike - 17 Mar 2007 14:50 GMT
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/17/petfood.recall.ap/index.html

The above is a link to a story on the CNN website about recalled cat and dog
food.

Mike in Illinois
Barbara - 17 Mar 2007 15:02 GMT
I saw that Mike on the Yahoo news. Kinda scary isnt it...At least with the
PB, we had a idea what brand was affected.

Signature

Barb

> http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/17/petfood.recall.ap/index.html
>
> The above is a link to a story on the CNN website about recalled cat and
> dog food.
>
> Mike in Illinois
studio - 17 Mar 2007 20:55 GMT
By ANDREW BRIDGES, Associated Press Writer

An unknown number of cats and dogs suffered kidney failure and about
10 died after eating the affected pet food, Menu Foods said in
announcing the North American recall. Product testing has not revealed
a link explaining the reported cases of illness and death, the company
said.

"At this juncture, we're not 100 percent sure what's happened," said
Paul Henderson, the company's president and chief executive officer.
However, the recalled products were made using wheat gluten purchased
from a new supplier, since dropped for another source, spokeswoman
Sarah Tuite said. Wheat gluten is a source of protein.

The recall covers the company's "cuts and gravy" style food, which
consists of chunks of meat in gravy, sold in cans and small foil
pouches between Dec. 3 and March 6 throughout the U.S., Canada and
Mexico.

The pet food was sold by stores operated by the Kroger Company,
Safeway Inc., Wal-Mart Stores Inc. and PetSmart Inc., among others,
Henderson said.

Menu Foods did not immediately provide a full list of brand names and
lot numbers covered by the recall, saying they would be posted on its
Web site - http://www.menufoods.com/recall - early Saturday. Consumers
with questions can call (866) 463-6738.
KMP - 18 Mar 2007 02:13 GMT
> By ANDREW BRIDGES, Associated Press Writer
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> Web site - http://www.menufoods.com/recall - early Saturday. Consumers
> with questions can call (866) 463-6738.
The list of brand names and barcode numbers is an Excel file - thank God for
Open Office which will open those files. Woodgie was halfway through one on
the list... She hasn't been sick, but didn't seem to like those foods, even
though she loves moist food. Guess she knew....
Kathy
studio - 18 Mar 2007 06:19 GMT
> The list of brand names and barcode numbers is an Excel file - thank God for
> Open Office which will open those files. Woodgie was halfway through one on
> the list... She hasn't been sick, but didn't seem to like those foods, even
> though she loves moist food. Guess she knew....

Not sure where you found those Excel files, the only one I looked at
was in .html plain text.
That was Iams food, but the only cans I had of that were purchased
last year and have been long gone already.

I only feed Big Mama Fancy Feast right now, and they weren't effected.
But I was surprised at the amount of brands that were though.

It's also strange that they have not been able to isolate what the
cause is.
I'm sure the lawsuits will be flying over this one.
Mike - 20 Mar 2007 15:09 GMT
I wonder what this was? E. Coli? Pesticide?

Mike in Illinois

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/304114,CST-NWS-pet20.article

Pet food tests killed 1 in 6 animals

March 20, 2007
WASHINGTON -- As many as one in six animals died in tests of suspect dog and
cat food by the manufacturer after complaints the products were poisoning
pets around the country, the government said Monday.
A federal investigation is focusing on wheat gluten as the likely source of
contamination that sparked a recall last Friday of 60 million cans and
pouches of the suspect food.

The wet-style pet food was made by Menu Foods. The recall now covers dog
food sold throughout North America under 51 brands and cat food sold under
40 brands, including Iams, Nutro and Eukanuba.
William Graham - 20 Mar 2007 21:01 GMT
>I wonder what this was? E. Coli? Pesticide?
>
> Mike in Illinois

Probably bacteria, or bacterial pathogens, but it would be helpful if they
figured it out and published it so we wouldn't have to guess.....Most cats
won't eat anything that's gone bad....Dogs, on the other hand, are prone to
wolf down anything that's ever been called "food" at any time in the
past......It's rare to be able to poison cats.........
Barnabas Collins - 21 Mar 2007 19:50 GMT
>>I wonder what this was? E. Coli? Pesticide?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>wolf down anything that's ever been called "food" at any time in the
>past......It's rare to be able to poison cats.........

More than likely we'll never really know.   When we had the spinach
scare we never really found the source of the problem.  (Maybe migrant
workers in the fields with no sanitation facilities?   Think about
where they go to the bathroom.....)

Or the bagged lettuce, we again never heard the final culprit.  

Corporations can kill your cat and you're powerless to stop them.
And the white house won't go after coporate misdeeds.

Doesn't help that this supplier is in Canada.
William Graham - 21 Mar 2007 23:12 GMT
>>>I wonder what this was? E. Coli? Pesticide?
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Doesn't help that this supplier is in Canada.

Yes. I immediately switched to feeding my cats people food....But Safeway
had some cans of (people) tuna that were so bad that even my cats wouldn't
eat it! - Tells you something about Safeway........
Barnabas Collins - 22 Mar 2007 20:29 GMT
>Yes. I immediately switched to feeding my cats people food
Two words: Spinach, Lettuce.    We never heard what the cause
of the problem was.
Matthew - 22 Mar 2007 20:33 GMT
>>Yes. I immediately switched to feeding my cats people food
> Two words: Spinach, Lettuce.    We never heard what the cause
> of the problem was.

They announced how that happened already
Barnabas Collins - 22 Mar 2007 21:54 GMT
>>>Yes. I immediately switched to feeding my cats people food
>> Two words: Spinach, Lettuce.    We never heard what the cause
>> of the problem was.
>>
>They announced how that happened already

Where?  I read vague accounts of how it was found but they glossed
over the details.  I want to know exactly how it happened and what
steps were taken to prevent it from happening again.

I still don't buy spinach of lettuce.
Diana - 23 Mar 2007 00:32 GMT
> >>>Yes. I immediately switched to feeding my cats people food
> >> Two words: Spinach, Lettuce.    We never heard what the cause
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> I still don't buy spinach of lettuce.

As of tonight's news, they still believe it to be contaminated wheat
gluten, but have ruled out both heavy metals and bacteria, the assumed
culprits.  They are now thinking pesticides, but have yet to find them.  
So the thing is still a mystery, with death reports in the hundreds and
rising.  

Diana
Diana - 23 Mar 2007 00:38 GMT
In article
<imdianawithoutspam-ECCA52.19321222032007@bignews.bellsouth.net>,

> > I still don't buy spinach of lettuce.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Diana

To clarify, I'm not talking about the spinach and lettuce.  That was
e-coli.  The pet food problem is so much scarier because it isn't one of
the usual contaminates.  And are we comfortable believing that no human
food is involved?  Just how do they know THAT?

Diana
William Graham - 23 Mar 2007 01:14 GMT
> In article
> <imdianawithoutspam-ECCA52.19321222032007@bignews.bellsouth.net>,
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Diana

They don't. All I was suggesting is that hundreds of cats die every week or
so in this country anyway, only now, every one is blamed on contaminated
food, even though they haven't found any contaminated food.....Sounds like a
wild rumor to me........
William Graham - 23 Mar 2007 01:24 GMT
>> In article
>> <imdianawithoutspam-ECCA52.19321222032007@bignews.bellsouth.net>,
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> contaminated food, even though they haven't found any contaminated
> food.....Sounds like a wild rumor to me........

Let's put it this way. I am 71 years old. I have had many pets during my
lifetime.....Especially cats, which I dearly love. All of them have
eventually died, except the four I have right now. I have never registered
their deaths with any authority. No vet has ever called me back to ask how
"fluffy" was doing.....There is, in other words, no accounting for the
deaths of cats. That means no statistics. So it is easy for a panic
situation like the recent one to happen. All the "evidence" is anecdotal.
Everybody who would formally have just sorrowfully buried their cat is now
angrily calling the pet food company and asking, "Why did you kill my cat?"
And the pet food company, completely unused to getting such calls, has to
assume that they have contaminated food. But I suggest that it isn't the
food that has changed, but only our perception of the food. - I could be
wrong, of course.....
Diana - 23 Mar 2007 20:17 GMT
> > In article
> > <imdianawithoutspam-ECCA52.19321222032007@bignews.bellsouth.net>,
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> food, even though they haven't found any contaminated food.....Sounds like a
> wild rumor to me........

This is not the case, William.  Kidney failure in unprecedented numbers
of previously healthy animals who are known to have eaten the identified
foods are being reported by veterinarians.  As I write, there is a
breaking news story that rat poison of a type not licensed for sale in
the US has been found in the foods.  The wheat that the wheat gluten was
made from came from China.  Check it out for yourself.

But, yeah, I'm sympathetic to your skepticism in general.  This just
happens to be for real.

Diana
William Graham - 23 Mar 2007 23:31 GMT
>> > In article
>> > <imdianawithoutspam-ECCA52.19321222032007@bignews.bellsouth.net>,
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> Diana

In any case, I would like to see the same accounting for dead pets that we
have for dead people.  After all, my pets are just as important to me as any
people ever were......
Wayne Mitchell - 24 Mar 2007 00:12 GMT
>But, yeah, I'm sympathetic to your skepticism in general.  This just
>happens to be for real.

Which won't keep it from being over-reported.  There will be far more
claims than there will be actual pets affected.  Even the *confirmed*
cases will be somewhat inflated.
Signature


Wayne

Wayne Mitchell - 23 Mar 2007 02:26 GMT
>with death reports in the hundreds and
>rising.  

Death "reports" don't count -- particularly if they are just reports
made to some web site that doesn't check them out, rather than filed
with a state complaint coordinator as the FDA requests.  Last I knew,
there were still less than 20 confirmed deaths which might (but still
might not) be due to the suspect food products.
Signature


Wayne M.
(with purrs from Will and Heidi)

William Graham - 22 Mar 2007 20:47 GMT
>>Yes. I immediately switched to feeding my cats people food
> Two words: Spinach, Lettuce.    We never heard what the cause
> of the problem was.

That's right.....And until we do, my cats are going to eat what I eat.
   It could be that there is no problem at all. I haven't seen any
statistics that show the number of cat/dog deaths has increased over what it
was a month ago, or 6 months ago.....I suspect that there is no problem at
all, but someone whose pet died after feeding it a new food called a radio
station or newspaper, and started a rumor that resulted in everyone who had
a sick cat blaming it on the food. Crazier things than this have happened in
the past. Until I see some hard statistics, or hard evidence that they have
found what is wrong with the food, I won't know what to believe.
studio - 22 Mar 2007 21:31 GMT
> That's right.....And until we do, my cats are going to eat what I eat.

Big Mama brought me a field mouse to eat last night.
I heard her crying at the door to come in, so I opened the
door, she ran in and dropped a dead uneatten field mouse
for me at my feet.
Then she went over and started eatting her crunchies
purring all the time like nobody's business.
If anything, she probably wanted to give me something fresh,
and wonders how I eat the garbage I do.

What a good girl she is though, worried about her masters diet.
22brix - 22 Mar 2007 21:40 GMT
>> That's right.....And until we do, my cats are going to eat what I eat.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> What a good girl she is though, worried about her masters diet.

What I hate is when they bring in a live one!  My cats are indoor now but
when I had outdoor cats I had a lizard or two living under my refrigerator
thanks to my hunters.

Bonnie
William Graham - 22 Mar 2007 21:49 GMT
>>> That's right.....And until we do, my cats are going to eat what I eat.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Bonnie

Yeah....Mice and lizards (and snakes) are one thing, but ours sometimes
bring in a bird.....They wreck the room playing with it before I can manage
to let it out....
22brix - 22 Mar 2007 22:07 GMT
>>>> That's right.....And until we do, my cats are going to eat what I eat.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> bring in a bird.....They wreck the room playing with it before I can
> manage to let it out....

Speaking of birds . .

www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/things.htm
William Graham - 22 Mar 2007 21:46 GMT
>> That's right.....And until we do, my cats are going to eat what I eat.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> What a good girl she is though, worried about her masters diet.

One of ours hops up on the table and "inspects" our food.....She doesn't
really like it, but she tastes/smells it to make sure we aren't poisoning
ourselves.....(Human Beings are so stupid....)
Normin - 22 Mar 2007 21:16 GMT
>>Yes. I immediately switched to feeding my cats people food
> Two words: Spinach, Lettuce.    We never heard what the cause
> of the problem was.

not to mention baby food, peanut butter, and tons of meat
recently.

can anyone say 'scary stuff'?   Not to be paranoid or anything,
but it's starting to feel 'organized' somehow to me.

N
Jaime G - 23 Mar 2007 05:47 GMT
> I wonder what this was? E. Coli? Pesticide?

I am suspicious about gluten from genetically altered wheat. But I doubt
the Fascists will tell us.

My heart goes out to the victims and their families.

JG

Signature

"Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum." - Lucretius

Divinorumus - 24 Mar 2007 06:10 GMT
Here are the names of a few who should be held responsible for not
insuring their products were safe for consumption by our pets (and
what about those poor old poor people I've heard that eat pet food
because it's cheap?)

http://www.menufoods.com/ir/trustees/trustees_etc.html

Robert W. Luba: Chairman and Trustee of the Fund, Chairman of Menu
Foods GenPar Limited
Alexander R. Aird: Trustee of the Fund, Director of Menu Foods GenPar
Limited
Serge K. Darkazanli: Trustee of the Fund, Director of Menu Foods
GenPar Limited
Eric A. Demirian: Trustee of the Fund, Director of Menu Foods GenPar
Limited
Thomas A Di Giacomo: Trustee of the Fund, Director of Menu Foods
GenPar Limited
Stephen A. Bearg: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited
Margaret A. Bras: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited
Robert W. Bras: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited
Douglas F. Haslam: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited
Fraser D. Latta: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited
Douglas N. Lunau: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited
Donald G. Watt: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited
Paul K. Henderson: President, Chief Executive Officer and Director of
Menu Foods GenPar Limited
Mark A. Wiens: Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer of
Menu Foods GenPar Limited
Dr. Richard G. Shields Jr.: Executive Vice President - Technical
Services of Menu Foods GenPar Limited
Randall C. Copeland: Executive Vice President - Sales and Marketing of
Menu Foods GenPar Limited
William F. Grant: Executive Vice President - Corporate Purchasing and
Logistics of Menu Foods GenPar Limited
Christopher J. Mifflin: Executive Vice President - Operations of Menu
Foods GenPar Limited

I'm sure we'll have the names of more heads soon
William Graham - 24 Mar 2007 06:19 GMT
> Here are the names of a few who should be held responsible for not
> insuring their products were safe for consumption by our pets (and
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> I'm sure we'll have the names of more heads soon

Forget the names.....Just give me the heads......
Upscale - 24 Mar 2007 06:45 GMT
"William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
> "Divinorumus" <divinorumus@evenmo.com> wrote in message
> > Here are the names of a few who should be held responsible for not
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> >
> Forget the names.....Just give me the heads......

Right! Good thinking. Get revenge on the heads of a multimillion dollar
company because some disgruntled ignorant employee way down the food chain
decided to poison some of the products. Put thousands of people out of work
because some disgruntled ignorant employee way down the food chain decided
to poison some of the products. The company issued a product recall almost
immediately after reports started to come in. In doing so, they've lost
millions of product dollars because they acted all because some disgruntled
ignorant employee way down the food chain decided to poison some of the
products.

What would you have them do? It's physically impossible to examine every
single package or can of the food they sell. They already have quality
control and what they sell is rigidly inspected on a regular basis. It
really is impossible to prevent one warped person from initiating this type
of attack. Considering the amount of animal food they sell, it's a wonder
that we're not hearing about thousands
of pet deaths, not the few dozens reported so far.

I think they handled the situation very well. Granted, if I'd lost my cat to
this poisoning, I'd probably be screaming at them too, but I wouldn't resort
to blind rage and seek revenge on the entire company because one screwed up
person decided to be an ignorant prick.
William Graham - 24 Mar 2007 07:25 GMT
> "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> "Divinorumus" <divinorumus@evenmo.com> wrote in message
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> up
> person decided to be an ignorant prick.

1.    My statement was obviously made in jest.
2.    If they had adequate quality control, they would have found the bad
cans/lots to begin with. Spot checking should have alerted them and shut
down their line before anything left the factory.
3.    The "ignorant person" must have been in China somewhere. As I
understand it, one of the ingredients from China was contaminated. - If I
was selling food, and there was a foreign made ingredient in any of my
products, you can bet that I would be testing the hell out of it all the
time.....
Upscale - 24 Mar 2007 07:58 GMT
"William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
> 2.    If they had adequate quality control, they would have found the bad
> cans/lots to begin with. Spot checking should have alerted them and shut
> down their line before anything left the factory.

You think they don't do spot checking? It's called quality control and it
goes on all the time and is mostly useless if someone decides to randomly
poison a few cans of food here and there. The only way to prevent against
that kind of activity is to spot check every product and if that has to be
done then there's no sense in being in business in the first place. The only
way to mediate the situation is to have procedures in place to handle the
problem once it comes to light. As far as I can see, that's what they did.
Are you going to suggest that the millions of cans of pet food they recalled
was not a proper response?

I'm hearing figures off a few dozen animal deaths. Let's assume the actual
figure was 1000 cans of tampered pet food. (assuming it was actual tampering
and not just a tragic error) 1000 out of 60,000,000 cans of pet food. That
works out to 1 can out of 60,000 cans of pet food. How exactly would you
implement spot checking that would catch that one can out of 60,000? There
isn't some laser beam that can identify it on the production line, it takes
a laboratory specialist doing specific tests with a good idea of what
they're looking for to determine what food has been tampered with.

All they really can do is to tighten employee security and maybe eliminate a
few of the points where there's human interaction with the preparation of
the pet food. If you want to rant and make all sorts of suggestions, that's
your business. But, until you can suggest a viable way to prevent this type
of terrorism, then all you're really doing is spouting off.

In reality with the size of many businesses and the amount of food (human
and pet) that is processed it's a wonder that this type of poisoning doesn't
happen much more than it does.
Barnabas Collins - 24 Mar 2007 19:04 GMT
>You think they don't do spot checking? It's called quality control and it
>goes on all the time and is mostly useless if someone decides to randomly
>poison a few cans of food here and there.

>I'm hearing figures off a few dozen animal deaths.
I have to think that by next year at this time the deaths will
have risen dramitically.   They'll go back and test alot
of dogs/cats who died in recent months and mind who knows
how many died.  

Any pet owner who had their pet die of the symptoms similar to
this will ask their vet if it could be related.   It woudln't
surprise me if there are who knows how many thousands.   The problem
would be proving it.   Many of those pets were probably buried or
cremated.  So proving it may be difficult.  

As far as quality control.....i'd have to think it takes
what 40+ hours to test one can to make sure the ingredients
are up to snuff.  So maybe the only way to detect a problem
is to actaully feed it to a pet?  Am I correct that ingredient
testing is this time consuming and hit or miss?
William Graham - 24 Mar 2007 20:20 GMT
>>You think they don't do spot checking? It's called quality control and it
>>goes on all the time and is mostly useless if someone decides to randomly
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> is to actaully feed it to a pet?  Am I correct that ingredient
> testing is this time consuming and hit or miss?

It must depend on what you test it for. Obviously any grain product should
be tested for rat poison, since rats are responsible for like 10% loss of
all grains in the world. If it's fish, it should be tested for mercury
content, and chicken for salmonella....But, in general, you don't have to
test all the ingredients for everything. Only for those things that are most
likely to be contaminants of the particular item involved. And, each batch,
after mixing, should be tested for everything.....Preferable by feeding it
to lab rats or mice, and then delaying the shipment for the finished cans
until the testing animals have had a chance to show symptoms......
William Graham - 24 Mar 2007 20:13 GMT
> "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> 2.    If they had adequate quality control, they would have found the bad
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> doesn't
> happen much more than it does.

You make pet food in large batches.....You mix each batch very well, so if
there is any poison in the batch in large enough quantity to harm the pets
then it will be in all the cans. Then, before you can it, you test it for
anything that could possibly be in there.....Insecticides and pesticides are
one of those things.....
   Why is it that when you make a point, it is a carefully considered and
well thought out idea, but when I make a point, it is a "rant", and I am
just "spouting off?"
   Here is a viable way to "prevent this kind of terrorism". You check out
all the ingredients before you mix up the food. Then you check the batch of
food after mixing, but before canning. Then you can the product and ship it
out. You also keep accurate records that can be used later on to identify
where the ingredients came from in any particular can of food, so you will
be able to trace every cans ingredients back to their origin. That way, if
you get your a.s sued off, you will be able to pass some of the misery along
to your suppliers.
Barnabas Collins - 25 Mar 2007 02:08 GMT
>  Here is a viable way to "prevent this kind of terrorism". You check out
>all the ingredients before you mix up the food.

And by the time you check all those ingredients you one month old
kitten will be 20+ years old.....

Look at the average can of cat food, notice all the ingredients.
Now multiply that about hundreds of thousands of cans shipped
throughout the entire country.  

Remember menu foods shipped to 90+ different brands.
William Graham - 25 Mar 2007 05:01 GMT
"Barnabas Collins" <BarnabasCollinsonSF@gmail.com> wrote in >

Remember menu foods shipped to 90+ different brands.

All the more reason why they should have better quality control over their
products....All those brands could each pay a penny a can more and buy
assurance that the food is uncontaminated.
   But hey! If you are dumb enough to kill your cats with poisoned food,
and want to stick up for the AH's who did it, be my guest.....Personally, I
would be looking for their heads on a silver platter. If any of my cats die,
I will sue them six ways from Sunday, and they will be parroting all that
crap you are spouting in a courtroom.......
Barnabas Collins - 25 Mar 2007 06:58 GMT
>"Barnabas Collins" <BarnabasCollinsonSF@gmail.com> wrote in >
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>I will sue them six ways from Sunday, and they will be parroting all that
>crap you are spouting in a courtroom.......

Another case of judge, jury and executioner before the facts are even
in.  

Personally i'll wait for the rest of the story to come in.
William Graham - 25 Mar 2007 07:21 GMT
>>"Barnabas Collins" <BarnabasCollinsonSF@gmail.com> wrote in >
>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Personally i'll wait for the rest of the story to come in.

In my experience, the only way to get the, "facts" is in court.....And even
then........
Upscale - 25 Mar 2007 07:52 GMT
"William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message

> You make pet food in large batches.....You mix each batch very well, so if
> there is any poison in the batch in large enough quantity to harm the pets
> then it will be in all the cans. Then, before you can it, you test it for
> anything that could possibly be in there.....Insecticides and pesticides are
> one of those things.....

Think about what you're saying William. Pet food is big business. The pet
food *is* mixed in large batches because it's the most profitable method to
produce a product and make a profit. And, there is quality control, granted,
maybe not enough in light of what has happened. Obviously, there wasn't any
poisoned large batch. If there was, thousands of pets out of the millions
fed would have died already. Even though there will probably be more pet
deaths coming to light in the following days, I doubt that figure will even
approach thousands considering all the public awareness that has happened.

You're making a few assumptions that for the most part, are highly unlikely.
I understand you're angry with what has happened and I sympathise. In all
honesty, I'd be extremely angry too if my cat got sick or died from this
poisoning, but my nature is to look for all the facts to be presented before
I decide how to respond. I don't believe in mob rule or summary judgement.
Barnabas Collins - 25 Mar 2007 17:36 GMT
>Think about what you're saying William. Pet food is big business. The pet
>food *is* mixed in large batches because it's the most profitable method to
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>deaths coming to light in the following days, I doubt that figure will even
>approach thousands considering all the public awareness that has happened.
Bear in mind by the time this is over there could be thousands of
deaths  attributed to this as they go back and look at all the
deaths related to kidney failure.

If you're cat died from Kidney failure in December was it related to
food from Menu foods?

Only time will tell how that plays out.

It wouldn't surprise me if the toll goes into the thousands or even
higher.

Every illness related to the kidney will be suspected.

>You're making a few assumptions that for the most part, are highly unlikely.
>I understand you're angry with what has happened and I sympathise. In all
>honesty, I'd be extremely angry too if my cat got sick or died from this
>poisoning, but my nature is to look for all the facts to be presented before
>I decide how to respond. I don't believe in mob rule or summary judgement.

Bear in mind if a cat had kidney problems could they pinpoint the
cause this late considering the cat was buried/cremated?
William Graham - 25 Mar 2007 21:16 GMT
"Barnabas Collins" <BarnabasCollinsonSF@gmail.com> wrote in >

Bear in mind if a cat had kidney problems could they pinpoint the
> cause this late considering the cat was buried/cremated?

They "could". but they probably won't. Pets are second class
citizens....They have no animosity, and never hold a grudge or take revenge
on anyone, and yet they are still second class citizens. This is because the
religious believe that they don't have a "soul" and won't get to the same
"reward" that we Human Beings get to. - Pets are
God's forgotten children.
William Graham - 25 Mar 2007 21:11 GMT
> "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> before
> I decide how to respond. I don't believe in mob rule or summary judgement.

Look. I pay the government a lot of money to police the ingredients that are
canned for my consumption....This includes my pet's consumption. Obviously,
they don't, (or can't or won't) do the job. So, why shouldn't I be angry? I
am not an apologist. Especially not for the government who has taken a very
large percentage of my earned income for 40 years or more.
Barnabas Collins - 24 Mar 2007 18:54 GMT
>1.    My statement was obviously made in jest.
>2.    If they had adequate quality control, they would have found the bad
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>products, you can bet that I would be testing the hell out of it all the
>time.....

Lets get real here.   If you go into xxxx store and got rid of
everything made in China those shelves at xxxxxxxx store would be
very empty..

I have to wonder if any thing could have been done to find the
contamianted product short of actually taking a few cans
at random and feeding it to a test cat.  

It's not like you pick up the can and a neon sign flashes
"this can is contaminated."

You have xxxxx can with 50+ ingredients it'd take
hours just to test that one can.

I don't want to defend menu foods here but lets
be real here too, you can't test every indredient
in the can unless spent alot of time and money
to do it.

You have to wait for some indication of a problem.

Remember this contamiantion stretched accross 90+ brands.
William Graham - 24 Mar 2007 20:28 GMT
>>1.    My statement was obviously made in jest.
>>2.    If they had adequate quality control, they would have found the bad
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> Remember this contamiantion stretched accross 90+ brands.

Yes....That's why I suggested that you feed the finished product to lab
mice/rats and then wait until they have  chance to show symptoms before you
ship out the canned product. In my case, I just feed my cats the same
roasted chicken that I eat myself....That way, if we go, we will all go
together......
Barnabas Collins - 25 Mar 2007 02:12 GMT
>Yes....That's why I suggested that you feed the finished product to lab
>mice/rats and then wait until they have  chance to show symptoms before you
>ship out the canned product.
And that won't detect the case where the product is contaminated after
it leaves the factory.

(Remember the Tylenol scare?   It was fine when it left the factory.
The contamiantion occurred on the store sheles.)
Barnabas Collins - 24 Mar 2007 18:46 GMT
>Right! Good thinking. Get revenge on the heads of a multimillion dollar
>company because some disgruntled ignorant employee way down the food chain
>decided to poison some of the products.
Hold off on this.  

Looking at the site it seems to me an awful like the company knew
this was coming down, they either disolved the company, sold
out to a an outside concern (a mutual fund?), or maybe set
up a trustee to run the embattled company.  So maybe these names
are people who had nothing to do with the original company.  

>ut thousands of people out of work
>because some disgruntled ignorant employee way down the food chain decided
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>ignorant employee way down the food chain decided to poison some of the
>products.
Bear in mind the poisoning occrred apparently in China and who knows
who knew what when.

I'd point out on this too it shear luck that authorities in New York
found out what the ingredient was.  This could have gone on for
the next 20+ years with no clue as to what the mystery ingredient
is.  

Prior to New York it's possilbe no body knew what the mystery
ingredient was, just that something was causing the sickness.
William Graham - 24 Mar 2007 20:37 GMT
>>Right! Good thinking. Get revenge on the heads of a multimillion dollar
>>company because some disgruntled ignorant employee way down the food chain
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> Prior to New York it's possilbe no body knew what the mystery
> ingredient was, just that something was causing the sickness.

There is an infinite number of "degrees of poison" in any product, whether
for pets or people. If the product isn't made well, then eating it for a
lifetime will shorten one's life some real positive finite amount of time
greater than epsilon......(over what it would have been had one eaten the
best, cleanest food) So, "poisoning" is a matter of degree, and not an
absolute line that can be easily identified.
   My point? If you are really worried about it, then you should buy the
ingredients yourself and make your own pet food. I try to do this by feeding
them roast chicken. Unfortunately, even the feral cat gets tired of chicken
and eats a can of wet pet food now and then. And, they all eat kibbles,
because they (the kibbles) don't go bad, and can be kept in a bin for a week
or more, so they are very convenient, especially if we leave the house for a
weekend or so.....
Barnabas Collins - 24 Mar 2007 18:29 GMT
>> http://www.menufoods.com/ir/trustees/trustees_etc.html
"Menu foods Income Fund?"

Anyone know is up with that?  
Is this a mutual fund that maybe owns stock in the company?

Is it possilbe none of these names were involved with the
original company?  Maybe the company went bankrupt after
the recall and a mutual fund came to the rescue?

I'm wondering how this came about.  

Seems odd  to me here in the US of A but then maybe it's a
Canadian thing?
CDC - 24 Mar 2007 19:42 GMT
No, they've been known that way for quite some time.

Signature

CDC

If you're going through hell, keep going
- Winston Churchill

>>> http://www.menufoods.com/ir/trustees/trustees_etc.html
> "Menu foods Income Fund?"
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Seems odd  to me here in the US of A but then maybe it's a
> Canadian thing?
Divinorumus - 25 Mar 2007 08:21 GMT
BTW, just because National Poison Prevention Week (March 18-24
http://www.poisonprevention.org ) is over, don't assume the Jihad
against cats and dogs and humans is over.  Beware of what you are
eating too!  What a horrible coincidence!  .... (suspicious, like that
911 thing, huh?)
 
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