Cat Forum / General Topics / March 2007
Pet Food Recall
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Mike - 17 Mar 2007 14:50 GMT http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/17/petfood.recall.ap/index.html
The above is a link to a story on the CNN website about recalled cat and dog food.
Mike in Illinois
Barbara - 17 Mar 2007 15:02 GMT I saw that Mike on the Yahoo news. Kinda scary isnt it...At least with the PB, we had a idea what brand was affected.
 Signature Barb
> http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/17/petfood.recall.ap/index.html > > The above is a link to a story on the CNN website about recalled cat and > dog food. > > Mike in Illinois studio - 17 Mar 2007 20:55 GMT By ANDREW BRIDGES, Associated Press Writer
An unknown number of cats and dogs suffered kidney failure and about 10 died after eating the affected pet food, Menu Foods said in announcing the North American recall. Product testing has not revealed a link explaining the reported cases of illness and death, the company said.
"At this juncture, we're not 100 percent sure what's happened," said Paul Henderson, the company's president and chief executive officer. However, the recalled products were made using wheat gluten purchased from a new supplier, since dropped for another source, spokeswoman Sarah Tuite said. Wheat gluten is a source of protein.
The recall covers the company's "cuts and gravy" style food, which consists of chunks of meat in gravy, sold in cans and small foil pouches between Dec. 3 and March 6 throughout the U.S., Canada and Mexico.
The pet food was sold by stores operated by the Kroger Company, Safeway Inc., Wal-Mart Stores Inc. and PetSmart Inc., among others, Henderson said.
Menu Foods did not immediately provide a full list of brand names and lot numbers covered by the recall, saying they would be posted on its Web site - http://www.menufoods.com/recall - early Saturday. Consumers with questions can call (866) 463-6738.
KMP - 18 Mar 2007 02:13 GMT > By ANDREW BRIDGES, Associated Press Writer > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Web site - http://www.menufoods.com/recall - early Saturday. Consumers > with questions can call (866) 463-6738. The list of brand names and barcode numbers is an Excel file - thank God for Open Office which will open those files. Woodgie was halfway through one on the list... She hasn't been sick, but didn't seem to like those foods, even though she loves moist food. Guess she knew.... Kathy
studio - 18 Mar 2007 06:19 GMT > The list of brand names and barcode numbers is an Excel file - thank God for > Open Office which will open those files. Woodgie was halfway through one on > the list... She hasn't been sick, but didn't seem to like those foods, even > though she loves moist food. Guess she knew.... Not sure where you found those Excel files, the only one I looked at was in .html plain text. That was Iams food, but the only cans I had of that were purchased last year and have been long gone already.
I only feed Big Mama Fancy Feast right now, and they weren't effected. But I was surprised at the amount of brands that were though.
It's also strange that they have not been able to isolate what the cause is. I'm sure the lawsuits will be flying over this one.
Mike - 20 Mar 2007 15:09 GMT I wonder what this was? E. Coli? Pesticide?
Mike in Illinois
http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/304114,CST-NWS-pet20.article
Pet food tests killed 1 in 6 animals
March 20, 2007 WASHINGTON -- As many as one in six animals died in tests of suspect dog and cat food by the manufacturer after complaints the products were poisoning pets around the country, the government said Monday. A federal investigation is focusing on wheat gluten as the likely source of contamination that sparked a recall last Friday of 60 million cans and pouches of the suspect food.
The wet-style pet food was made by Menu Foods. The recall now covers dog food sold throughout North America under 51 brands and cat food sold under 40 brands, including Iams, Nutro and Eukanuba.
William Graham - 20 Mar 2007 21:01 GMT >I wonder what this was? E. Coli? Pesticide? > > Mike in Illinois Probably bacteria, or bacterial pathogens, but it would be helpful if they figured it out and published it so we wouldn't have to guess.....Most cats won't eat anything that's gone bad....Dogs, on the other hand, are prone to wolf down anything that's ever been called "food" at any time in the past......It's rare to be able to poison cats.........
Barnabas Collins - 21 Mar 2007 19:50 GMT >>I wonder what this was? E. Coli? Pesticide? >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >wolf down anything that's ever been called "food" at any time in the >past......It's rare to be able to poison cats......... More than likely we'll never really know. When we had the spinach scare we never really found the source of the problem. (Maybe migrant workers in the fields with no sanitation facilities? Think about where they go to the bathroom.....)
Or the bagged lettuce, we again never heard the final culprit.
Corporations can kill your cat and you're powerless to stop them. And the white house won't go after coporate misdeeds.
Doesn't help that this supplier is in Canada.
William Graham - 21 Mar 2007 23:12 GMT >>>I wonder what this was? E. Coli? Pesticide? >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Doesn't help that this supplier is in Canada. Yes. I immediately switched to feeding my cats people food....But Safeway had some cans of (people) tuna that were so bad that even my cats wouldn't eat it! - Tells you something about Safeway........
Barnabas Collins - 22 Mar 2007 20:29 GMT >Yes. I immediately switched to feeding my cats people food Two words: Spinach, Lettuce. We never heard what the cause of the problem was.
Matthew - 22 Mar 2007 20:33 GMT >>Yes. I immediately switched to feeding my cats people food > Two words: Spinach, Lettuce. We never heard what the cause > of the problem was. They announced how that happened already
Barnabas Collins - 22 Mar 2007 21:54 GMT >>>Yes. I immediately switched to feeding my cats people food >> Two words: Spinach, Lettuce. We never heard what the cause >> of the problem was. >> >They announced how that happened already Where? I read vague accounts of how it was found but they glossed over the details. I want to know exactly how it happened and what steps were taken to prevent it from happening again.
I still don't buy spinach of lettuce.
Diana - 23 Mar 2007 00:32 GMT > >>>Yes. I immediately switched to feeding my cats people food > >> Two words: Spinach, Lettuce. We never heard what the cause [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I still don't buy spinach of lettuce. As of tonight's news, they still believe it to be contaminated wheat gluten, but have ruled out both heavy metals and bacteria, the assumed culprits. They are now thinking pesticides, but have yet to find them. So the thing is still a mystery, with death reports in the hundreds and rising.
Diana
Diana - 23 Mar 2007 00:38 GMT In article <imdianawithoutspam-ECCA52.19321222032007@bignews.bellsouth.net>,
> > I still don't buy spinach of lettuce. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Diana To clarify, I'm not talking about the spinach and lettuce. That was e-coli. The pet food problem is so much scarier because it isn't one of the usual contaminates. And are we comfortable believing that no human food is involved? Just how do they know THAT?
Diana
William Graham - 23 Mar 2007 01:14 GMT > In article > <imdianawithoutspam-ECCA52.19321222032007@bignews.bellsouth.net>, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Diana They don't. All I was suggesting is that hundreds of cats die every week or so in this country anyway, only now, every one is blamed on contaminated food, even though they haven't found any contaminated food.....Sounds like a wild rumor to me........
William Graham - 23 Mar 2007 01:24 GMT >> In article >> <imdianawithoutspam-ECCA52.19321222032007@bignews.bellsouth.net>, [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > contaminated food, even though they haven't found any contaminated > food.....Sounds like a wild rumor to me........ Let's put it this way. I am 71 years old. I have had many pets during my lifetime.....Especially cats, which I dearly love. All of them have eventually died, except the four I have right now. I have never registered their deaths with any authority. No vet has ever called me back to ask how "fluffy" was doing.....There is, in other words, no accounting for the deaths of cats. That means no statistics. So it is easy for a panic situation like the recent one to happen. All the "evidence" is anecdotal. Everybody who would formally have just sorrowfully buried their cat is now angrily calling the pet food company and asking, "Why did you kill my cat?" And the pet food company, completely unused to getting such calls, has to assume that they have contaminated food. But I suggest that it isn't the food that has changed, but only our perception of the food. - I could be wrong, of course.....
Diana - 23 Mar 2007 20:17 GMT > > In article > > <imdianawithoutspam-ECCA52.19321222032007@bignews.bellsouth.net>, [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > food, even though they haven't found any contaminated food.....Sounds like a > wild rumor to me........ This is not the case, William. Kidney failure in unprecedented numbers of previously healthy animals who are known to have eaten the identified foods are being reported by veterinarians. As I write, there is a breaking news story that rat poison of a type not licensed for sale in the US has been found in the foods. The wheat that the wheat gluten was made from came from China. Check it out for yourself.
But, yeah, I'm sympathetic to your skepticism in general. This just happens to be for real.
Diana
William Graham - 23 Mar 2007 23:31 GMT >> > In article >> > <imdianawithoutspam-ECCA52.19321222032007@bignews.bellsouth.net>, [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Diana In any case, I would like to see the same accounting for dead pets that we have for dead people. After all, my pets are just as important to me as any people ever were......
Wayne Mitchell - 24 Mar 2007 00:12 GMT >But, yeah, I'm sympathetic to your skepticism in general. This just >happens to be for real. Which won't keep it from being over-reported. There will be far more claims than there will be actual pets affected. Even the *confirmed* cases will be somewhat inflated.
 Signature
Wayne
Wayne Mitchell - 23 Mar 2007 02:26 GMT >with death reports in the hundreds and >rising. Death "reports" don't count -- particularly if they are just reports made to some web site that doesn't check them out, rather than filed with a state complaint coordinator as the FDA requests. Last I knew, there were still less than 20 confirmed deaths which might (but still might not) be due to the suspect food products.
 Signature
Wayne M. (with purrs from Will and Heidi)
William Graham - 22 Mar 2007 20:47 GMT >>Yes. I immediately switched to feeding my cats people food > Two words: Spinach, Lettuce. We never heard what the cause > of the problem was. That's right.....And until we do, my cats are going to eat what I eat. It could be that there is no problem at all. I haven't seen any statistics that show the number of cat/dog deaths has increased over what it was a month ago, or 6 months ago.....I suspect that there is no problem at all, but someone whose pet died after feeding it a new food called a radio station or newspaper, and started a rumor that resulted in everyone who had a sick cat blaming it on the food. Crazier things than this have happened in the past. Until I see some hard statistics, or hard evidence that they have found what is wrong with the food, I won't know what to believe.
studio - 22 Mar 2007 21:31 GMT > That's right.....And until we do, my cats are going to eat what I eat. Big Mama brought me a field mouse to eat last night. I heard her crying at the door to come in, so I opened the door, she ran in and dropped a dead uneatten field mouse for me at my feet. Then she went over and started eatting her crunchies purring all the time like nobody's business. If anything, she probably wanted to give me something fresh, and wonders how I eat the garbage I do.
What a good girl she is though, worried about her masters diet.
22brix - 22 Mar 2007 21:40 GMT >> That's right.....And until we do, my cats are going to eat what I eat. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > What a good girl she is though, worried about her masters diet. What I hate is when they bring in a live one! My cats are indoor now but when I had outdoor cats I had a lizard or two living under my refrigerator thanks to my hunters.
Bonnie
William Graham - 22 Mar 2007 21:49 GMT >>> That's right.....And until we do, my cats are going to eat what I eat. >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Bonnie Yeah....Mice and lizards (and snakes) are one thing, but ours sometimes bring in a bird.....They wreck the room playing with it before I can manage to let it out....
22brix - 22 Mar 2007 22:07 GMT >>>> That's right.....And until we do, my cats are going to eat what I eat. >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > bring in a bird.....They wreck the room playing with it before I can > manage to let it out.... Speaking of birds . .
www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/things.htm
William Graham - 22 Mar 2007 21:46 GMT >> That's right.....And until we do, my cats are going to eat what I eat. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > What a good girl she is though, worried about her masters diet. One of ours hops up on the table and "inspects" our food.....She doesn't really like it, but she tastes/smells it to make sure we aren't poisoning ourselves.....(Human Beings are so stupid....)
Normin - 22 Mar 2007 21:16 GMT >>Yes. I immediately switched to feeding my cats people food > Two words: Spinach, Lettuce. We never heard what the cause > of the problem was. not to mention baby food, peanut butter, and tons of meat recently.
can anyone say 'scary stuff'? Not to be paranoid or anything, but it's starting to feel 'organized' somehow to me.
N
Jaime G - 23 Mar 2007 05:47 GMT > I wonder what this was? E. Coli? Pesticide? I am suspicious about gluten from genetically altered wheat. But I doubt the Fascists will tell us.
My heart goes out to the victims and their families.
JG
 Signature "Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum." - Lucretius
Divinorumus - 24 Mar 2007 06:10 GMT Here are the names of a few who should be held responsible for not insuring their products were safe for consumption by our pets (and what about those poor old poor people I've heard that eat pet food because it's cheap?)
http://www.menufoods.com/ir/trustees/trustees_etc.html
Robert W. Luba: Chairman and Trustee of the Fund, Chairman of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Alexander R. Aird: Trustee of the Fund, Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Serge K. Darkazanli: Trustee of the Fund, Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Eric A. Demirian: Trustee of the Fund, Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Thomas A Di Giacomo: Trustee of the Fund, Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Stephen A. Bearg: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Margaret A. Bras: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Robert W. Bras: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Douglas F. Haslam: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Fraser D. Latta: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Douglas N. Lunau: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Donald G. Watt: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Paul K. Henderson: President, Chief Executive Officer and Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Mark A. Wiens: Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Dr. Richard G. Shields Jr.: Executive Vice President - Technical Services of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Randall C. Copeland: Executive Vice President - Sales and Marketing of Menu Foods GenPar Limited William F. Grant: Executive Vice President - Corporate Purchasing and Logistics of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Christopher J. Mifflin: Executive Vice President - Operations of Menu Foods GenPar Limited
I'm sure we'll have the names of more heads soon
William Graham - 24 Mar 2007 06:19 GMT > Here are the names of a few who should be held responsible for not > insuring their products were safe for consumption by our pets (and [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > I'm sure we'll have the names of more heads soon Forget the names.....Just give me the heads......
Upscale - 24 Mar 2007 06:45 GMT "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
> "Divinorumus" <divinorumus@evenmo.com> wrote in message > > Here are the names of a few who should be held responsible for not [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > Forget the names.....Just give me the heads...... Right! Good thinking. Get revenge on the heads of a multimillion dollar company because some disgruntled ignorant employee way down the food chain decided to poison some of the products. Put thousands of people out of work because some disgruntled ignorant employee way down the food chain decided to poison some of the products. The company issued a product recall almost immediately after reports started to come in. In doing so, they've lost millions of product dollars because they acted all because some disgruntled ignorant employee way down the food chain decided to poison some of the products.
What would you have them do? It's physically impossible to examine every single package or can of the food they sell. They already have quality control and what they sell is rigidly inspected on a regular basis. It really is impossible to prevent one warped person from initiating this type of attack. Considering the amount of animal food they sell, it's a wonder that we're not hearing about thousands of pet deaths, not the few dozens reported so far.
I think they handled the situation very well. Granted, if I'd lost my cat to this poisoning, I'd probably be screaming at them too, but I wouldn't resort to blind rage and seek revenge on the entire company because one screwed up person decided to be an ignorant prick.
William Graham - 24 Mar 2007 07:25 GMT > "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message >> "Divinorumus" <divinorumus@evenmo.com> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > up > person decided to be an ignorant prick. 1. My statement was obviously made in jest. 2. If they had adequate quality control, they would have found the bad cans/lots to begin with. Spot checking should have alerted them and shut down their line before anything left the factory. 3. The "ignorant person" must have been in China somewhere. As I understand it, one of the ingredients from China was contaminated. - If I was selling food, and there was a foreign made ingredient in any of my products, you can bet that I would be testing the hell out of it all the time.....
Upscale - 24 Mar 2007 07:58 GMT "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
> 2. If they had adequate quality control, they would have found the bad > cans/lots to begin with. Spot checking should have alerted them and shut > down their line before anything left the factory. You think they don't do spot checking? It's called quality control and it goes on all the time and is mostly useless if someone decides to randomly poison a few cans of food here and there. The only way to prevent against that kind of activity is to spot check every product and if that has to be done then there's no sense in being in business in the first place. The only way to mediate the situation is to have procedures in place to handle the problem once it comes to light. As far as I can see, that's what they did. Are you going to suggest that the millions of cans of pet food they recalled was not a proper response?
I'm hearing figures off a few dozen animal deaths. Let's assume the actual figure was 1000 cans of tampered pet food. (assuming it was actual tampering and not just a tragic error) 1000 out of 60,000,000 cans of pet food. That works out to 1 can out of 60,000 cans of pet food. How exactly would you implement spot checking that would catch that one can out of 60,000? There isn't some laser beam that can identify it on the production line, it takes a laboratory specialist doing specific tests with a good idea of what they're looking for to determine what food has been tampered with.
All they really can do is to tighten employee security and maybe eliminate a few of the points where there's human interaction with the preparation of the pet food. If you want to rant and make all sorts of suggestions, that's your business. But, until you can suggest a viable way to prevent this type of terrorism, then all you're really doing is spouting off.
In reality with the size of many businesses and the amount of food (human and pet) that is processed it's a wonder that this type of poisoning doesn't happen much more than it does.
Barnabas Collins - 24 Mar 2007 19:04 GMT >You think they don't do spot checking? It's called quality control and it >goes on all the time and is mostly useless if someone decides to randomly >poison a few cans of food here and there.
>I'm hearing figures off a few dozen animal deaths. I have to think that by next year at this time the deaths will have risen dramitically. They'll go back and test alot of dogs/cats who died in recent months and mind who knows how many died.
Any pet owner who had their pet die of the symptoms similar to this will ask their vet if it could be related. It woudln't surprise me if there are who knows how many thousands. The problem would be proving it. Many of those pets were probably buried or cremated. So proving it may be difficult.
As far as quality control.....i'd have to think it takes what 40+ hours to test one can to make sure the ingredients are up to snuff. So maybe the only way to detect a problem is to actaully feed it to a pet? Am I correct that ingredient testing is this time consuming and hit or miss?
William Graham - 24 Mar 2007 20:20 GMT >>You think they don't do spot checking? It's called quality control and it >>goes on all the time and is mostly useless if someone decides to randomly [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > is to actaully feed it to a pet? Am I correct that ingredient > testing is this time consuming and hit or miss? It must depend on what you test it for. Obviously any grain product should be tested for rat poison, since rats are responsible for like 10% loss of all grains in the world. If it's fish, it should be tested for mercury content, and chicken for salmonella....But, in general, you don't have to test all the ingredients for everything. Only for those things that are most likely to be contaminants of the particular item involved. And, each batch, after mixing, should be tested for everything.....Preferable by feeding it to lab rats or mice, and then delaying the shipment for the finished cans until the testing animals have had a chance to show symptoms......
William Graham - 24 Mar 2007 20:13 GMT > "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message >> 2. If they had adequate quality control, they would have found the bad [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > doesn't > happen much more than it does. You make pet food in large batches.....You mix each batch very well, so if there is any poison in the batch in large enough quantity to harm the pets then it will be in all the cans. Then, before you can it, you test it for anything that could possibly be in there.....Insecticides and pesticides are one of those things..... Why is it that when you make a point, it is a carefully considered and well thought out idea, but when I make a point, it is a "rant", and I am just "spouting off?" Here is a viable way to "prevent this kind of terrorism". You check out all the ingredients before you mix up the food. Then you check the batch of food after mixing, but before canning. Then you can the product and ship it out. You also keep accurate records that can be used later on to identify where the ingredients came from in any particular can of food, so you will be able to trace every cans ingredients back to their origin. That way, if you get your a.s sued off, you will be able to pass some of the misery along to your suppliers.
Barnabas Collins - 25 Mar 2007 02:08 GMT > Here is a viable way to "prevent this kind of terrorism". You check out >all the ingredients before you mix up the food. And by the time you check all those ingredients you one month old kitten will be 20+ years old.....
Look at the average can of cat food, notice all the ingredients. Now multiply that about hundreds of thousands of cans shipped throughout the entire country.
Remember menu foods shipped to 90+ different brands.
William Graham - 25 Mar 2007 05:01 GMT "Barnabas Collins" <BarnabasCollinsonSF@gmail.com> wrote in >
Remember menu foods shipped to 90+ different brands.
All the more reason why they should have better quality control over their products....All those brands could each pay a penny a can more and buy assurance that the food is uncontaminated. But hey! If you are dumb enough to kill your cats with poisoned food, and want to stick up for the AH's who did it, be my guest.....Personally, I would be looking for their heads on a silver platter. If any of my cats die, I will sue them six ways from Sunday, and they will be parroting all that crap you are spouting in a courtroom.......
Barnabas Collins - 25 Mar 2007 06:58 GMT >"Barnabas Collins" <BarnabasCollinsonSF@gmail.com> wrote in > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >I will sue them six ways from Sunday, and they will be parroting all that >crap you are spouting in a courtroom....... Another case of judge, jury and executioner before the facts are even in.
Personally i'll wait for the rest of the story to come in.
William Graham - 25 Mar 2007 07:21 GMT >>"Barnabas Collins" <BarnabasCollinsonSF@gmail.com> wrote in > >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Personally i'll wait for the rest of the story to come in. In my experience, the only way to get the, "facts" is in court.....And even then........
Upscale - 25 Mar 2007 07:52 GMT "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
> You make pet food in large batches.....You mix each batch very well, so if > there is any poison in the batch in large enough quantity to harm the pets > then it will be in all the cans. Then, before you can it, you test it for > anything that could possibly be in there.....Insecticides and pesticides are > one of those things..... Think about what you're saying William. Pet food is big business. The pet food *is* mixed in large batches because it's the most profitable method to produce a product and make a profit. And, there is quality control, granted, maybe not enough in light of what has happened. Obviously, there wasn't any poisoned large batch. If there was, thousands of pets out of the millions fed would have died already. Even though there will probably be more pet deaths coming to light in the following days, I doubt that figure will even approach thousands considering all the public awareness that has happened.
You're making a few assumptions that for the most part, are highly unlikely. I understand you're angry with what has happened and I sympathise. In all honesty, I'd be extremely angry too if my cat got sick or died from this poisoning, but my nature is to look for all the facts to be presented before I decide how to respond. I don't believe in mob rule or summary judgement.
Barnabas Collins - 25 Mar 2007 17:36 GMT >Think about what you're saying William. Pet food is big business. The pet >food *is* mixed in large batches because it's the most profitable method to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >deaths coming to light in the following days, I doubt that figure will even >approach thousands considering all the public awareness that has happened. Bear in mind by the time this is over there could be thousands of deaths attributed to this as they go back and look at all the deaths related to kidney failure.
If you're cat died from Kidney failure in December was it related to food from Menu foods?
Only time will tell how that plays out.
It wouldn't surprise me if the toll goes into the thousands or even higher.
Every illness related to the kidney will be suspected.
>You're making a few assumptions that for the most part, are highly unlikely. >I understand you're angry with what has happened and I sympathise. In all >honesty, I'd be extremely angry too if my cat got sick or died from this >poisoning, but my nature is to look for all the facts to be presented before >I decide how to respond. I don't believe in mob rule or summary judgement. Bear in mind if a cat had kidney problems could they pinpoint the cause this late considering the cat was buried/cremated?
William Graham - 25 Mar 2007 21:16 GMT "Barnabas Collins" <BarnabasCollinsonSF@gmail.com> wrote in >
Bear in mind if a cat had kidney problems could they pinpoint the
> cause this late considering the cat was buried/cremated? They "could". but they probably won't. Pets are second class citizens....They have no animosity, and never hold a grudge or take revenge on anyone, and yet they are still second class citizens. This is because the religious believe that they don't have a "soul" and won't get to the same "reward" that we Human Beings get to. - Pets are God's forgotten children.
William Graham - 25 Mar 2007 21:11 GMT > "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message >> > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > before > I decide how to respond. I don't believe in mob rule or summary judgement. Look. I pay the government a lot of money to police the ingredients that are canned for my consumption....This includes my pet's consumption. Obviously, they don't, (or can't or won't) do the job. So, why shouldn't I be angry? I am not an apologist. Especially not for the government who has taken a very large percentage of my earned income for 40 years or more.
Barnabas Collins - 24 Mar 2007 18:54 GMT >1. My statement was obviously made in jest. >2. If they had adequate quality control, they would have found the bad [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >products, you can bet that I would be testing the hell out of it all the >time..... Lets get real here. If you go into xxxx store and got rid of everything made in China those shelves at xxxxxxxx store would be very empty..
I have to wonder if any thing could have been done to find the contamianted product short of actually taking a few cans at random and feeding it to a test cat.
It's not like you pick up the can and a neon sign flashes "this can is contaminated."
You have xxxxx can with 50+ ingredients it'd take hours just to test that one can.
I don't want to defend menu foods here but lets be real here too, you can't test every indredient in the can unless spent alot of time and money to do it.
You have to wait for some indication of a problem.
Remember this contamiantion stretched accross 90+ brands.
William Graham - 24 Mar 2007 20:28 GMT >>1. My statement was obviously made in jest. >>2. If they had adequate quality control, they would have found the bad [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Remember this contamiantion stretched accross 90+ brands. Yes....That's why I suggested that you feed the finished product to lab mice/rats and then wait until they have chance to show symptoms before you ship out the canned product. In my case, I just feed my cats the same roasted chicken that I eat myself....That way, if we go, we will all go together......
Barnabas Collins - 25 Mar 2007 02:12 GMT >Yes....That's why I suggested that you feed the finished product to lab >mice/rats and then wait until they have chance to show symptoms before you >ship out the canned product. And that won't detect the case where the product is contaminated after it leaves the factory.
(Remember the Tylenol scare? It was fine when it left the factory. The contamiantion occurred on the store sheles.)
Barnabas Collins - 24 Mar 2007 18:46 GMT >Right! Good thinking. Get revenge on the heads of a multimillion dollar >company because some disgruntled ignorant employee way down the food chain >decided to poison some of the products. Hold off on this.
Looking at the site it seems to me an awful like the company knew this was coming down, they either disolved the company, sold out to a an outside concern (a mutual fund?), or maybe set up a trustee to run the embattled company. So maybe these names are people who had nothing to do with the original company.
>ut thousands of people out of work >because some disgruntled ignorant employee way down the food chain decided [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >ignorant employee way down the food chain decided to poison some of the >products. Bear in mind the poisoning occrred apparently in China and who knows who knew what when.
I'd point out on this too it shear luck that authorities in New York found out what the ingredient was. This could have gone on for the next 20+ years with no clue as to what the mystery ingredient is.
Prior to New York it's possilbe no body knew what the mystery ingredient was, just that something was causing the sickness.
William Graham - 24 Mar 2007 20:37 GMT >>Right! Good thinking. Get revenge on the heads of a multimillion dollar >>company because some disgruntled ignorant employee way down the food chain [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Prior to New York it's possilbe no body knew what the mystery > ingredient was, just that something was causing the sickness. There is an infinite number of "degrees of poison" in any product, whether for pets or people. If the product isn't made well, then eating it for a lifetime will shorten one's life some real positive finite amount of time greater than epsilon......(over what it would have been had one eaten the best, cleanest food) So, "poisoning" is a matter of degree, and not an absolute line that can be easily identified. My point? If you are really worried about it, then you should buy the ingredients yourself and make your own pet food. I try to do this by feeding them roast chicken. Unfortunately, even the feral cat gets tired of chicken and eats a can of wet pet food now and then. And, they all eat kibbles, because they (the kibbles) don't go bad, and can be kept in a bin for a week or more, so they are very convenient, especially if we leave the house for a weekend or so.....
Barnabas Collins - 24 Mar 2007 18:29 GMT >> http://www.menufoods.com/ir/trustees/trustees_etc.html "Menu foods Income Fund?"
Anyone know is up with that? Is this a mutual fund that maybe owns stock in the company?
Is it possilbe none of these names were involved with the original company? Maybe the company went bankrupt after the recall and a mutual fund came to the rescue?
I'm wondering how this came about.
Seems odd to me here in the US of A but then maybe it's a Canadian thing?
CDC - 24 Mar 2007 19:42 GMT No, they've been known that way for quite some time.
 Signature CDC
If you're going through hell, keep going - Winston Churchill
>>> http://www.menufoods.com/ir/trustees/trustees_etc.html > "Menu foods Income Fund?" [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Seems odd to me here in the US of A but then maybe it's a > Canadian thing? Divinorumus - 25 Mar 2007 08:21 GMT BTW, just because National Poison Prevention Week (March 18-24 http://www.poisonprevention.org ) is over, don't assume the Jihad against cats and dogs and humans is over. Beware of what you are eating too! What a horrible coincidence! .... (suspicious, like that 911 thing, huh?)
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