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BILLY HAS BEEN KILLED

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tattyloks - 27 Jul 2006 22:37 GMT
I have not been on the site for a while, but I feel like I have to let you
guys know how I am feeling.  I have four cats BILLY, BONNIE, GEORGE and
SCRAG.  Yesterday outside my house, my BILLY BOY was knocked down by a car
and killed (the road that I live on is very quiet, only neighbours use it)
I was on the scene immediatley, but he was killed instantly, I know that
he never suffered but I am hurting so much, BILLY was just coming up to 3
years old and I thought we had years and years ahead of us.  It was only 2
1/2 years ago I lost my other cat SANDY he was 15 years old (I only had
the one cat then) and he died of old age.  I keep thinking it is not fair
BILLY was only young, I feel robbed on many happy years together with him.
I know I have still got BONNIE, GEORGE & SCRAG and they are a big comfort
but I miss BILLY so much, he was like the dad to them all, he was the one
that looked after the territory, but he was a big softy at the same time.

PLEASE REMEMBER BILLY IN YOUR PRAYERS.

Tina
kraut - 28 Jul 2006 01:40 GMT
I suppose you are still letting the others out ?!?!?  Hopefully they
will not get killed !!!!  An indoors cat is a safe cat !!!

>I have not been on the site for a while, but I feel like I have to let you
>guys know how I am feeling.  I have four cats BILLY, BONNIE, GEORGE and
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>Tina
studio - 28 Jul 2006 05:10 GMT
First; I'd like to express my sympathy's to the loved lost one's owner.
It's not your fault. Accidents do happen to anyone or anycat.

> I suppose you are still letting the others out ?!?!?  Hopefully they
> will not get killed !!!!  An indoors cat is a safe cat !!!

Under most circumstances, an indoor cat is indeed safe, but it should
not be
a hard-and-fast absolute rule.
Potential dangers sometimes must be weighed and evaluated.
I would think indoor cats are more prone to psychosis, emotional
unhappiness, depression and shorter lives.
i.e.:
where I live, we have 35 acres of property. Not many cars, and lots of
roaming room with trees and grass.
Big Mama has plenty room to roam with little threat potentials.
She rarely strays more than 40-50 meters
away, and is as close to paradise for a cat as can be. She's very
happy,
physcologically well adjusted, has lived a long 13 years with no
medical problems, and is still going strong.
In contrast, my neighbor keeps her 2 cats inside all the time cramped
up.
The 1 cat has lived 8 years and only has a few weeks left to live
because
both of them have all kinds of medical problems.
I tell her, please let the cats outside just once, she's not going to
run away and
would love to just be a cat for once and roll in the grass....but she
won't
let her outside.
Another contrast would be another woman who brings her cat from a city
out here to her get-away place.
She lets the cat roam around outside and you can tell how happy the cat
is to be
able to do that. With no problems what-so-ever.

I realize not everyone can do that with their cat. But I would just
say, if you keep
your cat inside all the time, make sure they have extra plenty things
to keep them
occupied.
kraut - 28 Jul 2006 14:02 GMT
>I would think indoor cats are more prone to psychosis, emotional
>unhappiness, depression and shorter lives.

Every study I have seen show that indoor cats have a much longer
lifespan and if you provide them with toys and things to occupy their
time plus spend quality time with them they will not be bored.

Below is just one of the many articles I found which is at
http://cats.about.com/cs/catmanagement101/f/lifespan_cats.htm about
cats life expectancy:

Q. How long is the common cat supposed to live?

A. Thats a rather broad question, and I'd have to give a general
answer.
Given proper care, nutrition, and regular veterinary visits, a cat
kept indoors can live as long as 21 years or more. (The average age of
cats is 12-15 years) This is, of course, barring any serious medical
conditions.

Cats that are indoors-outdoors usually don't last to the the average
age because of traffic accidents, fighting with other cats,
intentional acts of violence, poisoning (accidental or intentional),
diseases caught from other cats, being picked up by animal control and
subsequently euthanized if not claimed, and death caused by predators.

"Stray cats" AKA "feral cats" usually don't live more than a couple of
years because of starvation or all of the above.

Mine have so many toys
(http://users.ameritech.net/lestark/image13.jpg) that it seems every
time I take a step I am stepping on the toys plus I have 10 kitty
condos and towers to keep them busy.

My Kitty was a stray until I took her in when pregnant and after
having her babies and being fixed she never wanted out nor teyed to
get out again nor have any of the others.  They set in the windows and
watch birds and stuff but even when the door is open they do not try
to get out.

My furbabies

http://members.aol.com/larrystark/
ToadVenomDMT - 02 Aug 2006 10:27 GMT
>>I would think indoor cats are more prone to psychosis, emotional
>>unhappiness, depression and shorter lives.
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
> http://members.aol.com/larrystark/

we had an outdoor cat lived to be 23, and an
indoor cat closing 20 but slowing down.  I would
agree though under certain circumstances an indoor
cat may live longer but i c nothing wrong with a
monitored outdoor setting.
MaryL - 28 Jul 2006 14:42 GMT
> First; I'd like to express my sympathy's to the loved lost one's owner.
> It's not your fault. Accidents do happen to anyone or anycat.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I would think indoor cats are more prone to psychosis, emotional
> unhappiness, depression and shorter lives.

That's a foolish statement.  The average lifespan for an indoor-only cat is
much longer than for an outdoor or indoor-outdoor cat (based on numerous
studies).  For anecdotal information, my first cat lived to be almost 20.
My second cat died at the age of 16.  Holly is now 11+ and looks like a
youngster.  Duffy is approximately 7 years old and is as active and vigorous
as any cat I have ever seen.  All have been indoor cats and all have been
happy, active, delightful companions.  Of course, I spend lots of time with
them and they have a big supply of toys, scratching posts, and two large cat
trees.

MaryL

Photos of Duffy and Holly:      >'o'<
Duffy:  http://tinyurl.com/cslwf
Holly:  http://tinyurl.com/9t68o
Duffy and Holly together:  http://tinyurl.com/8b47e
Recent pics:  http://tinyurl.com/clal7
kraut - 28 Jul 2006 19:15 GMT
>I would think indoor cats are more prone to psychosis, emotional
>unhappiness, depression and shorter lives.

Every study I have seen show that indoor cats have a much longer
lifespan and if you provide them with toys and things to occupy their
time plus spend quality time with them they will not be bored.

Below is just one of the many articles I found which is at
http://cats.about.com/cs/catmanagement101/f/lifespan_cats.htm about
cats life expectancy:

Q. How long is the common cat supposed to live?

A. Thats a rather broad question, and I'd have to give a general
answer.
Given proper care, nutrition, and regular veterinary visits, a cat
kept indoors can live as long as 21 years or more. (The average age of
cats is 12-15 years) This is, of course, barring any serious medical
conditions.

Cats that are indoors-outdoors usually don't last to the the average
age because of traffic accidents, fighting with other cats,
intentional acts of violence, poisoning (accidental or intentional),
diseases caught from other cats, being picked up by animal control and
subsequently euthanized if not claimed, and death caused by predators.

"Stray cats" AKA "feral cats" usually don't live more than a couple of
years because of starvation or all of the above.

Mine have so many toys
(http://users.ameritech.net/lestark/image13.jpg) that it seems every
time I take a step I am stepping on the toys plus I have 10 kitty
condos and towers to keep them busy.

My Kitty was a stray until I took her in when pregnant and after
having her babies and being fixed she never wanted out nor teyed to
get out again nor have any of the others.  They set in the windows and
watch birds and stuff but even when the door is open they do not try
to get out.

My furbabies

http://members.aol.com/larrystark/
ToadVenomDMT - 02 Aug 2006 10:28 GMT
>>I would think indoor cats are more prone to psychosis, emotional
>>unhappiness, depression and shorter lives.
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
> http://members.aol.com/larrystark/

who pays for these studies?
ToadVenomDMT - 02 Aug 2006 10:30 GMT
>>I would think indoor cats are more prone to psychosis, emotional
>>unhappiness, depression and shorter lives.
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
> http://members.aol.com/larrystark/

every cat my family owned lived over 15 and some
were indoor and some were outdoor (but i will say
the outdoor cat had limited yard time0  I think a
good home and love is key.
studio - 30 Jul 2006 04:32 GMT
> > "studio" <tlack@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> much longer than for an outdoor or indoor-outdoor cat (based on numerous
> studies).

Clinical studies are fine, but not as a practical rule for all cat
owners.

I had a friend who's cat Elvis was indoor-outdoor.
Elvis lived to be 22+ years old.
As long as they have good care and the dangers are minimal, they will
live
a normal life.
Not everyone can keep a cat inside all the time, especially when they
want
to go out.
Some cats yearn to be in natural surroundings (outside) some of the
time, and
it's perfectly alright for them to go out as long as they are in very
minimal danger.
Responsible cat owners access the cat's knowledge and possible
environmental
dangers.
kraut - 30 Jul 2006 12:42 GMT
>Not everyone can keep a cat inside all the time, especially when they
>want to go out.

Why ?!?!

I have 4 and they have been indoors only since I took them in as
strays and do not try to get out.

My furbabies

http://members.aol.com/larrystark/
studio - 31 Jul 2006 06:34 GMT
> >Not everyone can keep a cat inside all the time, especially when they
> >want to go out.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I have 4 and they have been indoors only since I took them in as
> strays and do not try to get out.

Because everyone is not kraut.
I have 1 cat, and she gets to go outside when she wants.....she likes
it,
and the threats are bare minimal.
But not everyone is studio either.....and I recognise that fact.
ToadVenomDMT - 02 Aug 2006 10:31 GMT
>>>"studio" <tlack@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> environmental
> dangers.

did i mention my outdoor cat that lived to 23.  I
will admit though she had battle scars but as she
got older he time outside was less and less but at
the last few years she was very good staying close
to the house.
NanC - 24 Aug 2006 18:56 GMT
>That's a foolish statement.  The average lifespan for an indoor-only cat is
>much longer than for an outdoor or indoor-outdoor cat (based on numerous
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>them and they have a big supply of toys, scratching posts, and two large cat
>trees.
Our indoor Burmese lived to be 23.  My current Best Friend is at least
16...She was a "Used" cat, a stray I rescued, and is fiercley devoted
to me...Almost a wife.
In our town, we have coyotes, and at least one Eastern Grey fox.  The
latter can climb trees.
It breaks my heart to see all the "Missing" Cat ads stapled to
telephone poles and put up in supermarkets.  They are never found.
Some have been up for more than a year.
They are NOT LOST, Dammit, they are EATEN.
Yes, Yes, I know about the "Born Free" doctine. I have a sister in law
who believes that way.  She is forever getting new cats.  Adopting one
to her is a death sentence for the cat.
---MIKE--- - 24 Aug 2006 19:11 GMT
My two cats are inside for the same reason.  My outdoor "pets" are
hummingbirds.  I don't know how many I "have' but I am mixing about one
gallon of sugar water a day!  I have seen 8 drinking (on two feeders) at
a time with a few more trying to get on the feeder.

                 ---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44° 15'  N - Elevation 1580')
22brix - 24 Aug 2006 19:44 GMT
My two cats are inside for the same reason.  My outdoor "pets" are
hummingbirds.  I don't know how many I "have' but I am mixing about one
gallon of sugar water a day!  I have seen 8 drinking (on two feeders) at
a time with a few more trying to get on the feeder.

                 ---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44° 15'  N - Elevation 1580')

Kitty TV!  My cats love chattering at the birds at the feeders!

Bonnie
tattyloks - 28 Jul 2006 11:24 GMT
To  Kraut

Yes I am still letting my other cats go outside.  BILLY only had a short
life but they were happy years, he was loved and well cared for and had
the best of everything, as all my cats do.  I believe that cats should be
able to go outside and do what comes natural to them, not keep them
prisoner in a building.  I know some people do keep their cats indoors for
one reason or other that is their choice, but I did not put my post in for
a debate on keeping cats indoors or outdoors, I only wanted for prayers to
be said for my BILLY.
Tina
Ivor Jones - 28 Jul 2006 11:45 GMT
> To  Kraut
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> prayers to be said for my BILLY.
> Tina

It's strange, I had a cat called Billy once about 20 years ago and he was
found dead on a neighbour's front drive. No sign that he'd been hit by a
car or anything, he just lay down and died (he was very old). He's buried
at the bottom of the garden, I often think of his little bones when I'm
out there.

Many purrs from me and my Missy.

Ivor
ToadVenomDMT - 02 Aug 2006 11:06 GMT
> To  Kraut
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> be said for my BILLY.
> Tina

well you just turned the debate it's wrong to keep
a cat indoors as a prisoner.  So all in all i
disagree with you and kraut, but you both have
good points.

All in all, i am sorry for your loss.

The indoor outdoor debate is bullshit, they've
both been proven to work in the right circumstances.
ToadVenomDMT - 02 Aug 2006 10:23 GMT
> I suppose you are still letting the others out ?!?!?  Hopefully they
> will not get killed !!!!  An indoors cat is a safe cat !!!
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>>
>>Tina

i get your points kraut but you come across very
hardheaded i noticed many differnet threads.
kraut - 02 Aug 2006 13:31 GMT
>i get your points kraut but you come across very
>hardheaded i noticed many differnet threads.

TO ToadVenomDMT <toadvenomdmt@gmail.com>:

I suppose in a way I am stubborn and hardheaded but maybe that comes
from picking up too many dead cats up off the street or watching to
many strays waste away to nothing or having to have too many put down.

I the last month I have had 3 strays put down now.  One had feline
lukemia and was skin and bones, one had its mouth, nose and tongue
burned somehow and could not swallow or eat and the other I am not
sure but it acted like it was just old and had trouble getting around
so I figured it was better off being sent to the bridge.

On top of that I have neighbors that have cats and just let them run
and do not even bother to feed them whether it is winter or summer.
Right now I am spending almost $200 monthly to feed cats that
supposedly belong to someone else not to mention defleaing and
worming.

Just yesterday one of their cats had what looked like a piece of tar
stuck between his foot pads and could hardly walk.  Where was her
loving owner??  Why did they not take care of it ??  They set everyday
waiting for ME to feed them because their owner claims them but that
is all.  They have 7 cats and 4 dogs which roam the streets.  I even
had to have 3 of them fixed because their owner could not afford to !!

So yes I guess I am hardheaded about letting cats wonder outside.  In
fact give me your address and the next dead cat I clean up I will send
it to you and you can bury it.  The cat with the burned mouth that had
to be put down cost me over $200 to be put down and cremated.  He may
have been someones pet and left to wonder the street or a stray.

Between me and my ex and my ex mother in law we have taken in about 19
cats (My ex mother in law the most)  not to mention the ones we
rehomed or took to the Michigan Humane Society or other shelters.

I will continue to be an advocate of fixed and indoor cats until the
day I die.

Sorry about carrying on everyone but I get very passionate about this
subject.  Enough said for now.

http://members.aol.com/larrystark/
ToadVenomDMT - 04 Aug 2006 10:17 GMT
>>i get your points kraut but you come across very
>>hardheaded i noticed many differnet threads.
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> http://members.aol.com/larrystark/
ok i understand some now.  YOu really are a good
person who cares about cats.  I care too but you
go the extra mile.  I admire that.
kraut - 04 Aug 2006 13:50 GMT
>>>i get your points kraut but you come across very
>>>hardheaded i noticed many differnet threads.
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>>
>> http://members.aol.com/larrystark/

>ok i understand some now.  YOu really are a good
>person who cares about cats.  I care too but you
>go the extra mile.  I admire that.

Sometimes that extra mile wears you (SP) down to the point where you
feel like saying to hang with it.  If their owners do not care why
should I but I can not.

My furbabies

http://members.aol.com/larrystark/
sax_playa86 - 28 Jul 2006 14:02 GMT
Purrs from my Marziale and I, its never easy to lose a member of the
family...

> I have not been on the site for a while, but I feel like I have to let you
> guys know how I am feeling.  I have four cats BILLY, BONNIE, GEORGE and
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Tina
 
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