Cat Forum / General Topics / April 2006
Training cats to murder small dogs
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Doug Kanter - 03 Apr 2006 22:30 GMT Anyone done it? I was thinking of picking up a very realistic stuffed dog toy, keeping it scented with catnip, and showing kitty how much fun it is to attack. Then, turn her loose on a couple of stray dogs that regularly invade my yard, and whose owners I haven't identified (yet).
Cadman - 04 Apr 2006 00:17 GMT > Anyone done it? I was thinking of picking up a very realistic stuffed dog > toy, keeping it scented with catnip, and showing kitty how much fun it is to > attack. Then, turn her loose on a couple of stray dogs that regularly invade > my yard, and whose owners I haven't identified (yet). An easy way to do it is to get your cat pregnant - assuming its female (by getting her pregnant, I mean by a male cat, not you!). A mother cat will attack ANYthing seen as a threat that comes near her kittens. I had a 7-8 lb. cat (with kittens) when I was a kid who tore a neighbor's Doberman to pieces because it wandered into our yard. Our cat came out without as much as a scratch. Needless to say, the dog didn't come anywhere near our yard again.
Doug Kanter - 04 Apr 2006 07:13 GMT >> Anyone done it? I was thinking of picking up a very realistic stuffed dog >> toy, keeping it scented with catnip, and showing kitty how much fun it is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > much as a scratch. Needless to say, the dog didn't come anywhere near our > yard again. I wanna buy your cat a beer!
The Raven <the_raven - 04 Apr 2006 15:53 GMT >>> Anyone done it? I was thinking of picking up a very realistic stuffed >>> dog toy, keeping it scented with catnip, and showing kitty how much fun [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > I wanna buy your cat a beer! I propose 3 cans of tuna for the dog attacking cat!
It's a matter of temperament. Some cats will do it naturally (My dad's cat Gato Grande Stupor comes to mind).
I had a cat named Robert that would chase small dogs off the property. Do you live in the city? Are Airguns/bows/rifles allowed where you live? I've found my bow is a great deterrent and it keeps my cats out of harm's way. I live out in the country though.
The Raven
Doug Kanter - 04 Apr 2006 16:01 GMT >>>> Anyone done it? I was thinking of picking up a very realistic stuffed >>>> dog toy, keeping it scented with catnip, and showing kitty how much fun [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > The Raven Not city, but a rather closely built suburban area where the use of any sort of firearm would be insanely unsafe. I have a plan, though. I'll be visiting our town justice next week to ask why the animal control robot is allowed to give stray dog criminals more than the 3 chances that the law specifies. After 3 citations, the dog is supposed to be permanently removed from the owner, but the AC robot constantly lets them slide.
The Raven <the_raven - 04 Apr 2006 16:47 GMT on Tuesday 04 April 2006 10:01 am, Doug Kanter blabbed incessantly producing the following:
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>> It's a matter of temperament. Some cats will do it naturally (My dad's >> cat [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > specifies. After 3 citations, the dog is supposed to be permanently > removed from the owner, but the AC robot constantly lets them slide. hmmm... you could buy a blowgun. the maximum effective range is 40 yards, and in the U.S. they're legal in 99% of the places.
About a month after I moved out here I was practicing with my girlfriend's bow when one of the neighbor's dogs charged me so I put an arrow into him. About a half hour I heard the neighbor shoot him. Now I don't have stray dogs running around my property.
A blowgun probably won't bring the dog down, but that specific dog will learn to stay away from your property.
 Signature The Raven
Dogs have owners, Cats have staff.
Doug Kanter - 04 Apr 2006 17:20 GMT > on Tuesday 04 April 2006 10:01 am, Doug Kanter blabbed incessantly > producing [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > A blowgun probably won't bring the dog down, but that specific dog will > learn to stay away from your property. I was wondering about a high tech slingshot: www.slingshots.com
The Raven <the_raven - 04 Apr 2006 17:34 GMT on Tuesday 04 April 2006 11:20 am, Doug Kanter blabbed incessantly producing the following:
<snip>
>> A blowgun probably won't bring the dog down, but that specific dog will >> learn to stay away from your property. < my signature snipped>
> I was wondering about a high tech slingshot: > www.slingshots.com That would work too. Be really careful though. A shot bouncing off the ground could hit a window and shatter it. A blow dart won't penetrate a window, but it will penetrate soft flesh. I imagine in your neighborhood there are windows that can/will break, and cars that might get dented if you missed the retarded ravenous feral dog.
 Signature The Raven
Dogs have owners, Cats have staff.
Doug Kanter - 04 Apr 2006 17:49 GMT > on Tuesday 04 April 2006 11:20 am, Doug Kanter blabbed incessantly > producing [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > there are windows that can/will break, and cars that might get dented if > you missed the retarded ravenous feral dog. Here's something that worked 20+ years ago, and was great fun. There was a neighbor whose vermin would wander constantly, and dig in peoples' gardens. I really made every possible effort to deal with the problem via the animal control fool, but he kept giving me stupid excuses, like "I need more than an address - I need to actually SEE the dog off its property". (Not true, but that's what he believed). One day, I went out to the garden and found the mutt digging just inches from some newly sprouted lettuce. I chased it home and ripped the lady a new one. She claimed the dog was always tied up, and she didn't know why it kept getting loose. I told her she had 24 hours to figure it out.
Next day, the vermin was running loose again. I had a fishing magazine which contained a picture of shark heads stuck up on telephone poles by a marina. Fishermen used to hang them up in the same way hunters display antlers on the wall. I tore out the picture, brought it to the woman's house, and explained that this would be her dog's fate if she didn't get a grip on reality. I let her keep the picture.
An hour later, the cops were at my door, telling me I was naughty. I showed them all the notes I'd gotten from the animal control dummy, which indicated that he was giving the woman a free pass to trespass all she wanted. I suggested they go speak to her about civil trespass. They did. I never saw the dog again.
The Raven <the_raven - 04 Apr 2006 18:14 GMT on Tuesday 04 April 2006 11:49 am, Doug Kanter blabbed incessantly producing the following:
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> Here's something that worked 20+ years ago, and was great fun. There was a > neighbor whose vermin would wander constantly, and dig in peoples' [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > wanted. I suggested they go speak to her about civil trespass. They did. I > never saw the dog again. Get 'er done! As I'm on probation I can't have the law enforcement drones come around. You could also get a live trap, or make one yourself, trap the dog, and take it to the pound. Depending on the size of the dog you may need a huge live trap. My trap is made out of 3/4 exposure 1 plywood, 2X4 frame and chicken wire with a plexiglass door that drops shut when triggered. Put a little meat scrap in a cloth bag, tie it to the trigger and when the dog tries to take/eat it it triggers the trap. The advantage to this is you don't need to constantly monitor it, and you can open it to release the stray cat that gets caught in it. I don't know how many times I've looked out my window to find one of my cats in the trap just sitting there waiting for me to open it and let them out.
I've been trying to get this feral cat that instigates fights with my cats. He gave Max (My tabby Manx) a big injury on his back. The last time I tried it I used some tuna in a cloth bag that I sewed myself. I caught each of my cats one at a time, but no feral orange cat. :(
I have an arrow with his name on it. :}
 Signature The Raven
Dogs have owners, Cats have staff.
mlbriggs - 04 Apr 2006 01:00 GMT > Anyone done it? I was thinking of picking up a very realistic stuffed dog > toy, keeping it scented with catnip, and showing kitty how much fun it is to > attack. Then, turn her loose on a couple of stray dogs that regularly invade > my yard, and whose owners I haven't identified (yet TROLL
Matthew AKA NMR - 04 Apr 2006 01:19 GMT Forget the troll the words dumb a.ses comes to mind
>> Anyone done it? I was thinking of picking up a very realistic stuffed dog >> toy, keeping it scented with catnip, and showing kitty how much fun it is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > TROLL Doug Kanter - 04 Apr 2006 07:23 GMT >> Anyone done it? I was thinking of picking up a very realistic stuffed dog >> toy, keeping it scented with catnip, and showing kitty how much fun it is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > TROLL Don't get involved, then, if you have nothing to contribute to a perfectly valid idea.
studio - 04 Apr 2006 01:29 GMT rofl.....I just have to laugh at that subject line. Too funny. I can't look at it without laughing.
Please don't train kitty to murder small dogs. It just isn't right.
Doug Kanter - 04 Apr 2006 07:14 GMT > rofl.....I just have to laugh at that subject line. > Too funny. > I can't look at it without laughing. > > Please don't train kitty to murder small dogs. > It just isn't right. Why not?
studio - 04 Apr 2006 17:52 GMT > > rofl.....I just have to laugh at that subject line. > > Too funny. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Why not? Because kitties do not have instincts to murder (small) dogs. Big cats in the wild might have those instincts. But your yard is not the wild, and your kitty is not a wild big cat.
Not to mention that kitty could be seriously injured, and whoever does such things can be proscecuted under animal cruelty laws, or civily sued by the murdered animals owner.
Otherwise, the subject line was hilarious.
Doug Kanter - 04 Apr 2006 17:55 GMT >> > rofl.....I just have to laugh at that subject line. >> > Too funny. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Otherwise, the subject line was hilarious. How could I be prosecuted? I didn't see nuttin'. I don't know nuttin'. :-)
studio - 04 Apr 2006 18:02 GMT > How could I be prosecuted? I didn't see nuttin'. I don't know nuttin'. :-) You don't have to know anything. The possible evidence may speak for itself. Ignorance is not a valid excuse.
Let kitty have a happy life, and let kitty do what kitty does best.
Doug Kanter - 04 Apr 2006 18:07 GMT >> How could I be prosecuted? I didn't see nuttin'. I don't know nuttin'. >> :-) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Let kitty have a happy life, and let kitty do what kitty does best. Ignorance? It's plausible deniability, as presidents and mob bosses like to call it. And besides, everything dies eventually. In the case of wild animals, it's usually because they made some sort of error. When we see a zebra killed by a lion on a nature program, we don't get all weepy about it and whine about how wrong it is. A dog off its leash is a wild animal, as far as I know (and the law in NY backs that up). If it makes a mistake, then it goes the way of the zebra.
studio - 04 Apr 2006 18:14 GMT > Ignorance? It's plausible deniability, as presidents and mob bosses like to That's a political term, not a legal one. As the animals owner, you are responsible for their actions.
Many a pet owner has learned this over the years the hard way by being fined, having their dear pet taken from them, or both.
Doug Kanter - 04 Apr 2006 18:28 GMT >> Ignorance? It's plausible deniability, as presidents and mob bosses like >> to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Many a pet owner has learned this over the years the hard way > by being fined, having their dear pet taken from them, or both. Unfortunately, within the category of animal control droids, there is a subculture that favors dogs, and lets their owners get away with all sorts of illegal activity. To me, this means that anything goes.
The Raven <the_raven - 04 Apr 2006 18:28 GMT on Tuesday 04 April 2006 12:14 pm, studio blabbed incessantly producing the following:
>> Ignorance? It's plausible deniability, as presidents and mob bosses like >> to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Many a pet owner has learned this over the years the hard way > by being fined, having their dear pet taken from them, or both. That being the case take care of the retarded/vicious dog and take him out yourself. Make sure there are no witnesses if you don't live trap them though.
 Signature The Raven
Dogs have owners, Cats have staff.
mlbriggs - 04 Apr 2006 19:31 GMT >>> How could I be prosecuted? I didn't see nuttin'. I don't know nuttin'. >>> :-) [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > far as I know (and the law in NY backs that up). If it makes a mistake, then > it goes the way of the zebra. Matthew AKA nmr said it best!
The Raven <the_raven - 04 Apr 2006 18:18 GMT on Tuesday 04 April 2006 11:55 am, Doug Kanter blabbed incessantly producing the following:
>>> > rofl.....I just have to laugh at that subject line. >>> > Too funny. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > How could I be prosecuted? I didn't see nuttin'. I don't know nuttin'. > :-) Your honor, The cat did it! (I would love to be able to use that in court. I can't imagine the look of the judge's face)
 Signature The Raven
Dogs have owners, Cats have staff.
The Raven <the_raven - 04 Apr 2006 18:17 GMT on Tuesday 04 April 2006 11:52 am, studio blabbed incessantly producing the following:
>> > rofl.....I just have to laugh at that subject line. >> > Too funny. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Big cats in the wild might have those instincts. > But your yard is not the wild, and your kitty is not a wild big cat. I had a "kitty" that did have that instinct, but I digress.
> Not to mention that kitty could be seriously injured, and whoever > does such things can be proscecuted under animal cruelty laws, > or civily sued by the murdered animals owner. > > Otherwise, the subject line was hilarious. If the dog was on his property his defense in the suit would be the fact that the dog was trespassing on HIS property. The judge would have to throw the suit out. Then he could countersue for civil trespass, littering(the body of the dead dog), and then force the (former) dog owner to pay for the body disposal expenses.
 Signature The Raven
Dogs have owners, Cats have staff.
Doug Kanter - 04 Apr 2006 18:28 GMT > on Tuesday 04 April 2006 11:52 am, studio blabbed incessantly producing > the [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > littering(the body of the dead dog), and then force the (former) dog owner > to pay for the body disposal expenses. It really does fall into the category of civil trespass. Most people think those laws involve only humans entering private property, but it includes much more.
studio - 05 Apr 2006 20:17 GMT > > I had a "kitty" that did have that instinct, but I digress. This could be considered normal behavior, even if all cats do not do it. Kitty chasing a dog off a property or territory is not the same as an instinct to kill them. If it were, kitty would go hunting and stalking them for that purpose. No cat ever has to my knowledge.
> > If the dog was on his property his defense in the suit would be the fact > that the dog was trespassing on HIS property. Sorry, but you're getting bad legal advice here.
It is against the law (anywhere in the US) to murder a person, or kill an animal that has an owner (local ordianances applicable) for simply stepping foot on your property. Yes, it is trespassing. No, you do not have the right to murder them for it, even if your own animal does it. (Baring that your life or that of your own animals are in mortal danger because of the trespass. But that burden of proof would be on you).
I recommend you talk to the town counsel or mayor. Failing that, get a proper lawyer if the animal control people or police in your area are not cooperating fully. They will be forced to consult their own lawyer for further clarification.
The Raven <the_raven - 05 Apr 2006 23:49 GMT on Wednesday 05 April 2006 02:17 pm, studio blabbed incessantly producing the following:
>> > I had a "kitty" that did have that instinct, but I digress. > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > mortal danger because of the trespass. But that burden > of proof would be on you). That's where you're wrong buddy. In Oklahoma if the dog is charging (try proving that it wasn't) you're allowed to rub them out. If your cat does the killing then there's really no argument because you can say you don't know what killed the dog in your front yard. Let them try proving that you set your cat on the dog.
> I recommend you talk to the town counsel or mayor. That will get you really far.
> Failing that, get a proper lawyer if the animal control > people or police in your area are not cooperating fully. > They will be forced to consult their own lawyer for > further clarification. All of which will cost you a lot more than it's worth since the lawyer will charge you at least $150 an hour for the favor of "consulting" with you about your trespassing dog problem.
 Signature The Raven
Dogs have owners, Cats have staff.
studio - 06 Apr 2006 03:41 GMT The Raven wrote:
> That's where you're wrong buddy. In Oklahoma if the dog is charging (try > proving that it wasn't) you're allowed to rub them out. Duplicity will get you nowhere. You want me to prove the animal wasn't charging, and yet I'm allowed to "rub him out".
If it were my animal being murdered, and I contested it. It's not up to me to prove the animal was charging, it would be quite the opposite. The court would decide by preponderous of evidence who was telling the truth or not about the demeanor of the animal. i.e. Were there witnesses Did the animal have a prior history of attacking people Had you seen the animal before Was the owner notified How did you know the animal was aggressive Did you have time to aviod the animal Why did you have a weapon at the time Why didn't you call animal control or police
If it was my peaceful animal you* murdered..... you* should be prepared to answer these and more questions in front of a judge.
Then again, I'm reasonable, so if an animal control officer told me to keep my animal off your property, I would have complied, or should reasonably be expected to pay fines for non-compliance.
> If your cat does > the killing then there's really no argument because you can say you don't > know what killed the dog in your front yard. Let them try proving that you > set your cat on the dog. If you read my posts carefully, you'll see that I wrote that it depends on what evidence is found, and that ignorance is no excuse. i.e. If your neighbor saw the cat murder the dog for no apparent reason or outright malice, then it's easily proven, your ignorance would be of no help, and could actually cause further problems for you.
> > I recommend you talk to the town counsel or mayor. > > That will get you really far. It may or may not. First steps first. Exhaust all avenues before doing anything drastic.
> > Failing that, get a proper lawyer if the animal control > > people or police in your area are not cooperating fully. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > charge you at least $150 an hour for the favor of "consulting" with you > about your trespassing dog problem. It all depends on how big the problem is to you. $150. hr. trumps the possible aggravation, fines, law suits and prosecution aimed at you instead. In which case you might spend a lot more on a lawyer than that.
(*You meaning; not Raven, but a metaphor for anyone).
The Raven <the_raven - 06 Apr 2006 04:08 GMT on Wednesday 05 April 2006 09:41 pm, studio blabbed incessantly producing the following:
> The Raven wrote: >> That's where you're wrong buddy. In Oklahoma if the dog is charging (try [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Were there witnesses > Did the animal have a prior history of attacking people Sorry didn't have time to ask the dog.
> Had you seen the animal before Nope didn't need to either.
> Was the owner notified I didn't have time to ask the dog who's it was.
> How did you know the animal was aggressive I'd say charging and barking toward me instead of away from me is good enough.
> Did you have time to aviod the animal On my best day I can't out run a dog.
> Why did you have a weapon at the time I was practicing for a 3d shoot with my bow at 8:00 in the morning on my own land.
> Why didn't you call animal control or police Sorry didn't have time, and I usually don't carry a phone when I practice with my bow. It seriously thrashes my aim.
> If it was my peaceful animal you* murdered..... > you* should be prepared to answer these and more questions in front of > a judge. If it was your peaceful animal that was on my land I doubt you would have a problem because I've led my neighbors HUGE mutt across the road numerous times when it comes over and threatens to lick me to death.
> Then again, I'm reasonable, so if an animal control officer told me to > keep my animal [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > outright malice, then it's easily proven, your ignorance would be of no > help, and could actually cause further problems for you. Here again if it's on your land all bets are off.
>> > I recommend you talk to the town counsel or mayor. >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > (*You meaning; not Raven, but a metaphor for anyone).
 Signature The Raven
Dogs have owners, Cats have staff.
Doug Kanter - 06 Apr 2006 13:43 GMT > Why didn't you call animal control or police I don't know how things are on YOUR planet, but if you're being attacked by a dog (or a human, for that matter), you probably have a matter of seconds to deal with the situation. Although the police are usually trained to drive really fast like Bruce Willis, it's going to take them more than 23 seconds to arrive.
Doug Kanter - 06 Apr 2006 02:12 GMT > I recommend you talk to the town counsel or mayor. The only reliable information on these matters will come from your town justice, and *some* (but definitely not all) attorneys.
studio - 05 Apr 2006 20:20 GMT Hiiii-Ya!
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