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Growl query

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Yojimbo - 24 Mar 2006 19:22 GMT
I have had this young cat, Minx (I think about nine months old), for about
three months now. A mixed breed who needed her tail removed from some
iinjury/infection she got shortly before I found her, hence Minx like Manx.
She wandered into my garage sometime when I had the door open so my regular
3yo tabby, Taboo, could get out of the cold Canadian winter. I took her in,
fed and rested her because I didn't know how long she was in the garage when
the door was closed. The next day, I put her out <go home> and she wouldn't
leave <duh>. So i took her in and advertised around for the owner. No SCPA
to deliver her to here, only in the city 52 km away.
Aside from other problems I've had with her, mainly her high energy level
compared to my sedate old tabby, I notice when I pick her up, she tolerates
it for about a minute, being held and lightly stroked. Then she begins a low
growl. So I put her down gently. I can see two spins on this though. One
that I'm inculcating a Pavlov response and encouraging her to growl as a
signal; normally they just squirm to get down. But also I want her to not
resent being picked up, that she's not held against her will.
Any behaviourists' takes on this out there?
Anna - 24 Mar 2006 19:36 GMT
>compared to my sedate old tabby, I notice when I pick her up, she tolerates
>it for about a minute, being held and lightly stroked. Then she begins a low
>growl. So I put her down gently. I can see two spins on this though. One
>that I'm inculcating a Pavlov response and encouraging her to growl as a
>signal; normally they just squirm to get down. But also I want her to not
>resent being picked up, that she's not held against her will.

Sounds like petting aggression.  Cats that have that can only tolerate
stimulation for a short time.  Here's some reading material:

http://www.petplace.com/cats/petting-aggression-in-cats/page1.aspx
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=1&cat=1310&articleid=3048
It's IBen to you... - 28 Mar 2006 11:23 GMT
> I have had this young cat, Minx (I think about nine months old), for about
> three months now. A mixed breed who needed her tail removed from some
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> resent being picked up, that she's not held against her will.
> Any behaviourists' takes on this out there?

Look... The cat just doesn't like being held. Why don't you just take
it for the simple fact that it is and quit trying to read all this
psychology krap into it?
Sounds like you've taken one acid trip too many. That's what's the
matter with you here..

IBen Getiner
Yojimbo - 28 Mar 2006 22:10 GMT
You look. It may be a furry meat puppet to you. But it is an animal of,
admittedly less than human, intelligence and depth of personality. If you
mistreat it it will fear you. If you rebuke him when he's misbehaving, it's
okay. But if you don't catch him in the act, you come across as just being
'mean'.
The point is most cats I know are okay with being held, kids aside (who want
to carry them like a rag doll and are shocked when they bite). Let's
mutually assume I'm not a druggie and I'll believe you're not an insane
redneck running a puppy mill with a still out back.

> Look... The cat just doesn't like being held. Why don't you just take
> it for the simple fact that it is and quit trying to read all this
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> IBen Getiner
Dr.Carla,DVM - 29 Mar 2006 04:10 GMT
I am not a behavior specialist, but here is an account of my own personal
experience.
Many  cats are OK with being held, some even demand it.
I have 3 cats.  One is a male DSH that will not only jump up on the lap of
anyone who is in my home, he will even move around and adjust his position
on your lap rather than leave it.  The second is a DLH that will meow until
I pick her up and is very content to be carried around by me for extended
periods of time.  The last is another DSH, the DLH's daughter and HATES
being held.  She will run away if she sees two hands coming towards her.  I
do manage to pick her up, or even place her on my lap she will meow like you
are torturing her, shed and squirm until she gets down.  Since she is from
my other cat's litter, I've had her since birth.  She has never been abused,
mishandled or severely frightened by a human being.  She is actually very
loving, as long as it is on her terms; she will rub up against me and lick
my hand and curl up next to me in bed.
She is 14 now, and I've been slowly trying to get her to change her mind
since she first expressed this trait (food, coaxing, sneaky manipulation,
you name it).
This is just an aspect of her I have to accept.
I think you should just accept the time you get with your cat and when she
growls, just let her go until another time.

Dr. Carla
It's IBen to you... - 29 Mar 2006 06:13 GMT
> You look....

I did. That's why I shook you. To wake your dead-azz up.

> It may be a furry meat puppet to you.

Nuts. Who said that? I've had my boy Chester now for years. I'd do just
about anything to make his life better. Right down to and including NOT
HOLDING him if he didn't want me to!

> But it is an animal of,
> admittedly less than human, intelligence and depth of personality.

My f.cking cat is twice the 'human' that most liberals, queers and
other criminals are. He deserves to draw breath many times over than
these sicko bastards do.

How do you vote, by the way....?

> If you
> mistreat it it will fear you.

Agreed

>  If you rebuke him when he's misbehaving, it's
> okay.

Yes...

> But if you don't catch him in the act, you come across as just being
> 'mean'.

Only if you're too shallow to understand the correlation between the
overturned plate of people-food on the kitchen floor, and why he's
hiding when you first enter the room ready to sit down and eat it.

> The point is most cats I know are okay with being held, kids aside (who want
> to carry them like a rag doll and are shocked when they bite).

Arrogant jerk! No two people are alike! Some like to cuddle... others
like to keep their distance. Just you try to change one like you're
trying to do with your kat, and you'll find out a thing or two or
three. Why do you assume that kats are not just the same? They each do
possess a totally unique personality... Each bringing to you the
reflection of their past life's-experience. Why can't you dig that?

> Let's
> mutually assume I'm not a druggie

Brain damage, then....? What happened...?

> and I'll believe you're not an insane
> redneck running a puppy mill with a still out back.

That was a racist comment.
Let me ask you... Is a white redneck worse than a black nigger? Blacks
that are niggers do actually behave very similarly to whites who have
sunken down to being redneck bastards. Have you ever noticed that?
Maybe we should just classify all hateful, violent people as niggers.
White or black, it shouldn't matter. Since we really can't call the bad
black a redneck, now can we...?! ;)

Leave the cat alone. Give it some friggin' space. before he bites the
ever-living sh.t out of you..

IBen
Barnabas Collins - 28 Mar 2006 23:05 GMT
>Aside from other problems I've had with her, mainly her high energy level
>compared to my sedate old tabby, I notice when I pick her up, she tolerates
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>resent being picked up, that she's not held against her will.
>Any behaviourists' takes on this out there?

I'd let her get down.    If she wants more she'll come back for it.
Doug Kanter - 05 Apr 2006 18:53 GMT
>I have had this young cat, Minx (I think about nine months old), for about
>three months now. A mixed breed who needed her tail removed from some
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> her to not resent being picked up, that she's not held against her will.
> Any behaviourists' takes on this out there?

As long as the growl isn't accompanied by attempted violence, I'd say it
just "language". Some cats don't say much, while others have their own
particular sounds. Just put down the cat.

By the way....about this nonsense: "But it is an animal of, admittedly less
than human, intelligence and depth of personality." - who "admitted" this to
you?
 
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