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John Fiegel - 08 Dec 2005 02:33 GMT
Hi
I adopted a stray from the shelter in August. Mooki is about 11 months;
she's fixed and is overall a good cat. I read one of the other posts
about the aggressive trait. She wants to hand-wrestle on a daily basis
but I've grown tired of going to work with scratches all over my hand.
Nevertheless, she still tries. I guess that repeatedly refusing will
eventually drive the message home.

She also likes to chew on anything lying around. She fished an empty
paper towel roll out of the garbage and is contentedly chewing it up as
I'm typing. She chews on rubber bands, earplugs, newspapers, bubble
wrap, whatever I leave lying around that she can sink her teeth into.
And this is only what I see. I don't know what she's chewing on when I'm
not home. She *always* has food out; usually 2 kinds so she has a choice.
If this was a dog, a rawhide chew toy would be a good idea. Is there any
recommended chew product for a cat? Any other suggestions? Somehow I
don't think paper towel rolls are good for her.:)

Thanks
John
Upscale - 08 Dec 2005 03:28 GMT
"John Fiegel" <jfiegel@cwnet.com> wrote in message
> about the aggressive trait. She wants to hand-wrestle on a daily basis
> but I've grown tired of going to work with scratches all over my hand.
> Nevertheless, she still tries. I guess that repeatedly refusing will
> eventually drive the message home.

It may depend on the personality of the cat, but I believe I've hand
wrestled the tendency to wrestle out of my cat, at least most of it. 6-7
months old when I first got her, she was wrestling all the time. Being the
masochist that I am, I'd giggle hysterically and wrestle her back even more.
It's reached the point now at 9 months old that she rarely wrestles the same
way because she knows she's going to get back more than she gives. She still
runs scampers around at 90mph like any kitten, but there's no more of the
going berserk on my hand when I grab her.
Spider - 09 Dec 2005 13:27 GMT
> "John Fiegel" <jfiegel@cwnet.com> wrote in message
> > about the aggressive trait. She wants to hand-wrestle on a daily basis
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> runs scampers around at 90mph like any kitten, but there's no more of the
> going berserk on my hand when I grab her.

Hi John and Upscale,

This is a lovely trait in a young cat!, but I - as Upscale has done - have
almost wrestled my Panther out of the tendency, or at least the tendency to
bite and scratch hard.  We both still love a 'bite fight', but she is
gentler and cools off much more quickly now.

John, you mention rawhide chews for dogs.  As far as I'm concerned, they're
not exclusively for dogs.  I am with my second cat who chews and demolishes
doggy chews.  I buy her the pencil-thin twisty chews that are about 10cm
(5") long.  Shandy (now dead, sadly) chomped on them as they were, but
Cheetah only accepts one after I've rinsed it briefly under the hot tap to
moisten and soften it.  Later, I find it just a third long .. later still,
not at all!   Oddly enough, she's the gentler of the two cats, so it's not
aggression chewing.  Not all cats, as I have implied, like rawhide chews but
they're not expensive (here in UK, 25p for 5 chews), so I think it may be
worth you looking out for a similar cat-sized chew.

Do let us know how you get on.
Spider
alt4 - 10 Dec 2005 15:46 GMT
Hi John,
Like Upscale and Spider I wrestle, giving more than the kitten. My wife on
the other hand is kind of subordinate. I'd like to say it's a phase, but the
males fight harder with each other (bite). Right now Ornery our kitten is
neck and neck with Nightshade our 4 year old.

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marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our
children and now, die, I think the
Republicans have done a fine job of
getting government out of our personal
lives."

>
>> "John Fiegel" <jfiegel@cwnet.com> wrote in message
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> Do let us know how you get on.
> Spider
DL Farnworth - 11 Dec 2005 22:34 GMT
This "arm wrestling" is a trick we try not to
encourage.

We got one of our guys from someone who liked to "play"
with her while wearing a welding glove.  She was
practically impossible to handle.  It took 6 months to
stop the grabbing, the slashing and the biting.

I like the idea of the chews though.  Gilbert likes to
chew on cardboard: paper towel tubes and the big box
that serves the others as a secret passageway.  So
there's bits of cardboard everywhere.
John Fiegel - 17 Dec 2005 22:54 GMT
Hi all
Thanks for responding
I bought some dog chews, both chicken and beef, but she turned her nose
up at them. I tried soaking them in chicken broth to soften them up and
maybe make them more appealing but no dice. I'll try something else.

I get the picture that this arm wrestling is not a good idea for all
involved. Question is how to break the habit. When she starts to chew on
my thumb or wrist (usually the indication she wants to wrestle), do I
just pull my hand back and ignore her -or- do I quickly 'out wrestle'
her so she knows it's no-win situation? Is there another option?
She most definitely wants to keep this up, but she gave me a 2-inch
slash on my palm today so this behavior needs to stop.

John

> This "arm wrestling" is a trick we try not to
> encourage.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> that serves the others as a secret passageway.  So
> there's bits of cardboard everywhere.
Spider - 18 Dec 2005 11:09 GMT
> Hi all
> Thanks for responding
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> John

Hi John,

It's a great pity the chews didn't work.  I hope you find something that
suits her.  Whatever you do, don't think that you can engage her mouth by
giving her something nice to eat.  It's probably already obvious to you, but
this will only tell her that you're treating her for biting you!

When my cats bite during wrestling, I put my hand in their mouth, and wedge
it hard into the back of their open jaw.  This is the last thing they
expect.  They can't bite and, done early enough and often enough, they learn
that I'm always going to win.  We now have gentle bite fights.  A previous
cat was trained this way so effectively that when suffering painfully at the
vet, he only gave the vet a gentle warning bite.  The warning was heeded.
Incidentally, I also trained a hamster this way; that saved another vet from
a painful bite.  It really can work.

Alas, you and your cat have probably gone beyond this point.  Your cat is
using its full armoury, hence your painful hand.  It isn't going to be easy,
or immediate, to turn this behaviour around, so you will have to be
persistent and patient.  Worth it, I think.

When your cat 'attacks' you, say NO very loudly and firmly.  Let her see
that you're cross with her.  Then, depending on the strength of her
reaction, either just ignore her or shut her in a safe room (maybe the room
she spends the night, so she has her litter tray) for a while.  This should
teach her that you don't appreciate her behaviour *and* that she'll be
ignored if she even tries to hurt you.  This gives me an idea: is it
possible that, being a man, you endeavoured to conceal your hurt when first
wrestling with her?  This would have sent her the message that she couldn't
hurt you, and that she could be as rough as she liked.   If this is the
case, you will now need to be a bit more wimpish with her.  She needs to
know when she's hurting you; she may not even mean to hurt as much as she
does.

Alongside the 'No and ignoring/confinement' treatment, praise her like crazy
when she's gentle and docile or, indeed, does anything right.  She will very
quickly learn your two different reactions to her behaviour and, hopefully,
will choose to behave well.

Cat wrestling is not all bad.  Cats and people enjoy it considerably.  Use
it to your advantage, however, and respond to more aggressive (painful!)
bites/scratches by saying "No.  Be gentle".  All my cats have learned the
"gentle" word and know when to calm down.  We still really enjoy our gentle
bite fights.

Hope this is of some help.  Now: go and tell your cat who's in charge! :~)
Spider
DL Farnworth - 19 Dec 2005 23:36 GMT
:...how to break the habit. When she starts to chew on
: my thumb or wrist (usually the indication she wants to wrestle), do I
: just pull my hand back and ignore her -or- do I quickly 'out wrestle'
: her so she knows it's no-win situation? ...

You can try outwrestling but you're probably going to
be sorry.  None of our guys seems to think in win/no
win terms.  Mostly they're "Ha ha ha!  I am
Ultralord!"/"Oh my god, get me out of here!"

I squeeze them gently but firmly.  I also stop moving
the affected part (the one in the Talons of Steel) and
say "No," also firmly.  Except when Pee Wee reaches up
exuberantly from the cat perch and gets me in the small
of the back with one sharp needle.  Then I yell.  But
then I explain very gently what I didn't like and coax
him out from under the table.

I tried the chews too but Gilbert, who has just
discovered that he can chew wrapped presents under the
tree without being observed, has chewed them
meditatively only once or twice.
 
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