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Help with kittens

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FishWife - 29 Dec 2004 14:31 GMT
Hi everyone,

I have two little four month old girl kittens.  They were fully weaned
when I took them at eight weeks, but a couple of weeks ago, I noticed
that the eldest one - Ella - had a red and swollen nipple and it looked
as though she had been washing that area quite vigorously as the fur was
very wet.

I've noticed it again another two times, and wondered what on earth was
going on.

Anyway, I've been off work over christmas, so able to spend more time
with them, and I noticed that the younger kitten, Lou, is trying to
suckle Ella, looking for milk!

Has anyone else come across this before?  It must be hurting Ella, as it
gets very red and swollen.  Is there anything I can do to stop Lou from
doing this?  Should I be giving her milk?  Any advice would be
appreciated - I'm really stumped with this one!
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Holly - 29 Dec 2004 18:13 GMT
My  older cat lets my 5 month old nurse, it is not good for them the vet says it can cause infection. When I see them doing this I say NO and spray them with the water bottle. It worked for a while but now the older one is pregnant and it started again so now the baby goes in the carrier when she trys to nurse
Holly - 29 Dec 2004 18:14 GMT
oh I forgot my vet also suggested putting bitter apple on her nipples
BC - 29 Dec 2004 19:18 GMT
> oh I forgot my vet also suggested putting bitter apple on her nipples

I would also suggest something that doesn't taste nice on her nipple
problem is i can only think of things that would probably sting if they
came into contact with sore skin, and it probably wouldn't put her off
to put it around the area-will keep thinking!

I doubt giving her milk would help as its probably more of a comfort
thing than an actual need for milk.

You might be better off separating them when you are not around, to
break the habit and to stop it getting worse and possibly infected.

As she is so young do you think she would take to wearing anything to
cover it for now?

Good luck!

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FishWife - 30 Dec 2004 13:02 GMT
>> oh I forgot my vet also suggested putting bitter apple on her nipples
>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>As she is so young do you think she would take to wearing anything to
>cover it for now?

Thank you - both - for your suggestions.  That's pretty much what we had
come up with.  We've tried squirting her with the water pistol, but
she's very persistent, and obviously we can't keep an eye on them 24
hours a day!!  I wondered about getting something for her to wear - but
can't really see her taking to that very well!

It would be a real shame to separate them, but if that's what it comes
to, then I'd rather that than a poorly kitty.

The animal behaviourist from the vets should be phoning me today, so
I'll let you all know if she suggests anything else.
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BC - 16 Jan 2005 13:37 GMT
>>> oh I forgot my vet also suggested putting bitter apple on her nipples
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> The animal behaviourist from the vets should be phoning me today, so
> I'll let you all know if she suggests anything else.

Just wondering as we hadn't heard anymore whether you managed to solve
this problem or not?  And how the two little ones were now doing?

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FishWife - 16 Jan 2005 17:03 GMT
>> In message <gqDAd.1438$6j2.79@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>, BC

>>   Thank you - both - for your suggestions.  That's pretty much what
>>we had  come up with.  We've tried squirting her with the water
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>Just wondering as we hadn't heard anymore whether you managed to solve
>this problem or not?  And how the two little ones were now doing?

Oh gosh, I'd forgotten about this post - I've spent the last few days
trying to get rid of a very stubborn trojan - grr!

Well, the animal behaviourist phoned back, and this is what she said:

It's not _very_ common, but not unheard of.  It's usually a comfort
thing - and not always to do with not being fully weaned (which she
was).  It could be the slight conflict between them and our older cat,
Macavity that's making her do it.  She suggested that to try and stop
her from doing it, when I spot it, I should pull her away and distract
her with a game.  She wasn't too keen on the water pistol idea because
it teaches them to fear you, not learn that what they're doing is wrong.
We do tend to use it though - but reserve it for when they're doing
something potentially dangerous.  However, she did say that ultimately
it was up to Ella to show Lou that it wasn't acceptable behaviour - it
is annoying her, so she thought that eventually Ella would bash her.

However, I haven't seen Lou try to do it for a while now, so it's
possible that they've sorted it out amongst themselves.  The two of them
are - as I type - cuddled up together on top of the fishtank, and it was
happening when they were both tired.

As a plus, my husband said that he saw Macavity washing Lou yesterday -
which is a very good sign that he's starting to accept them!  I'm really
pleased.  Macavity seems to be making excellent progress - slow and hard
work, but getting there I think.

And the two of them are wonderful - thank you for asking!  Still very
naughty and very boisterous - but soo affectionate!  It's impossible to
be cross with them when they're tearing about the place, knocking things
over and spreading paperwork all over the livingroom floor!!

How is your little one??
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BC - 17 Jan 2005 11:42 GMT
>>> In message <gqDAd.1438$6j2.79@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>, BC
>
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> pleased.  Macavity seems to be making excellent progress - slow and hard
> work, but getting there I think.

Good to see you are still around.  Brilliant that Lou seems to have
stopped the sucking, and that Macavity is really starting to become
friends with the little ones.

> And the two of them are wonderful - thank you for asking!  Still very
> naughty and very boisterous - but soo affectionate!  It's impossible to
> be cross with them when they're tearing about the place, knocking things
> over and spreading paperwork all over the livingroom floor!!

Sounds so normal!  Anyone who says that cats are careful are soo wrong!
Everyday I have moments of chasing him away from things then laughing at
him when he does something really cute or funny.  He seems to like
entertaining the kids at the mo by letting it "all hang out" if you get
what i mean, so that I have to answer lots of awkward questions, I swear
he does it on purpose!!;-)

> How is your little one??

Kiwi is currently losing the last of his baby teeth, he looked really
funny up to last week with 6 canine teeth, kinda like a vampire cat gone
wrong!

Have your two filled out at all?  Kiwi looks so sleek, swear he has some
 Siamese in him as he also is very vocal, he is soo gonna scream his
way to the vets on friday!

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FishWife - 18 Jan 2005 00:04 GMT
>Good to see you are still around.

Thank you :o)

>Brilliant that Lou seems to have stopped the sucking, and that Macavity
>is really starting to become friends with the little ones.

Slowly - but he still has the odd grump at them.  He had Lou pinned down
on top of the fishtank tonight, but then he was alternating biting her
with washing her!!  He never bites hard, by the way - in case you're
worried - he does this to us sometimes to warn us that he's had enough!

>>  And the two of them are wonderful - thank you for asking!  Still
>>very naughty and very boisterous - but soo affectionate!  It's
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Everyday I have moments of chasing him away from things then laughing
>at him when he does something really cute or funny.  He seems

Ooohhhh yeah, I soooo know that feeling!!  We're constantly trying to
stop them from being naughty, but Ella especially will then come up to
me purring her head off, and trying to "kiss" me!   CUTE!

>to like entertaining the kids at the mo by letting it "all hang out" if
>you get what i mean, so that I have to answer lots of awkward
>questions, I swear he does it on purpose!!;-)

Hehehe!!!  That's so funny!!  I've never seen a cat do that before, but
i've seen a puppy do it - they just have no shame!!

>>  How is your little one??
>Kiwi is currently losing the last of his baby teeth, he looked really
>funny up to last week with 6 canine teeth, kinda like a vampire cat
>gone wrong!

Ella had a funny baby tooth sticking out over her upper lip a few nights
ago - she looked really odd!

>Have your two filled out at all?  Kiwi looks so sleek, swear he has
>some Siamese in him as he also is very vocal, he is soo gonna scream
>his way to the vets on friday!

Ella was very podgy when we got her - she's definitley the dominant
kitten, and I think she was firstborn.  They've evened out a bit now -
Ella is becoming sleeker and Lou has put on a bit of weight.  Ella is
*extremely* vocal, and Lou has really come out of her shell in that
respect in the last few days.  They've discovered the fishtank now, so
the two of them are sat there chattering at the fish!  It's hilarious!

Good luck for Friday - let us know how the little blighter is.  At least
you will have all weekend to spend with him, helping him to get back to
normal!!

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BC - 19 Jan 2005 11:40 GMT
> In message <twNGd.52$Om2.36@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>, BC <BC@fake.com> writes
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> with washing her!!  He never bites hard, by the way - in case you're
> worried - he does this to us sometimes to warn us that he's had enough!
Doesn't worry me! Ki bites gently when he is contented and extremely
hard when he is in one of those moods or just because I have to move
him, he can be so evil!  Sounds like Macavity likes lou really! A kind
of you are my friend, but you will respect me, all at the same time!

>>>  And the two of them are wonderful - thank you for asking!  Still
>>> very naughty and very boisterous - but soo affectionate!  It's
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> stop them from being naughty, but Ella especially will then come up to
> me purring her head off, and trying to "kiss" me!   CUTE!

MEGA CUTE! Its so lovely when animals are like that! Some of the foods
give them a nasty fishy breath though! yuck!!

>> to like entertaining the kids at the mo by letting it "all hang out"
>> if you get what i mean, so that I have to answer lots of awkward
>> questions, I swear he does it on purpose!!;-)
>
> Hehehe!!!  That's so funny!!  I've never seen a cat do that before, but
> i've seen a puppy do it - they just have no shame!!
He also has a toy husky that he likes to hump infront of everyone
including visitors! VERY embarrassing!

>>>  How is your little one??
>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> respect in the last few days.  They've discovered the fishtank now, so
> the two of them are sat there chattering at the fish!  It's hilarious!
It must look so cute doing it together!  The chattering teeth thing is
really funny, almost like kiwi is imagining eating whatever he is
stalking!  Do they chase the fish round or just kind of watch longingly?

> Good luck for Friday - let us know how the little blighter is.  At least
> you will have all weekend to spend with him, helping him to get back to
> normal!!

Will do, bet Ki will be fine it will just be me being wimpish!

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FishWife - 20 Jan 2005 17:43 GMT
>>   Slowly - but he still has the odd grump at them.  He had Lou pinned
>>down  on top of the fishtank tonight, but then he was alternating
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>hard when he is in one of those moods or just because I have to move
>him, he can be so evil!

Lou still bites from time to time, but when we first got them, they were
forever licking our fingers.  When they're really tired, they'll often
come and sleep on us and start "washing" us.  So cute!

>Sounds like Macavity likes lou really! A kind of you are my friend, but
>you will respect me, all at the same time!

I think so, and I really hope so.  Hubby said that Macavity and Lou were
asleep on top of the fishtank together today - it's excellent progress.

>>   Ooohhhh yeah, I soooo know that feeling!!  We're constantly trying
>>to stop them from being naughty, but Ella especially will then come up
>>me purring her head off, and trying to "kiss" me!   CUTE!
>
>MEGA CUTE! Its so lovely when animals are like that! Some of the foods
>give them a nasty fishy breath though! yuck!!

Macavity especially - he escaped from his catbox when we were driving
home from visiting family recently, and I had to hold on to him until it
was safe to pull over.  He was miaowing in my face and
pphheeeeeoooowww!!

>>   Hehehe!!!  That's so funny!!  I've never seen a cat do that before,
>>but i've seen a puppy do it - they just have no shame!!
>He also has a toy husky that he likes to hump infront of everyone
>including visitors! VERY embarrassing!

OMG!!!  I have *definitely* never heard of a cat doing that!!!

>>respect in the last few days.  They've discovered the fishtank now, so
>>the two of them are sat there chattering at the fish!  It's hilarious!
>It must look so cute doing it together!  The chattering teeth thing is
>really funny, almost like kiwi is imagining eating whatever he is
>stalking!  Do they chase the fish round or just kind of watch longingly?

Oh they're trying their damndest to get in the fishtank.  They start by
pawing the glass, then they'll go round one side and see if they can
open it from there, round the other side, in through the back, on top
trying to lift the lid - monsters!!

>>  Good luck for Friday - let us know how the little blighter is.  At
>>least you will have all weekend to spend with him, helping him to get
>>back to normal!!
>>
>Will do, bet Ki will be fine it will just be me being wimpish!

Be brave!  It will all be fine!
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BC - 20 Jan 2005 22:26 GMT
> In message <DGrHd.44$p65.4@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>, BC <BC@fake.com> writes
>
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
> OMG!!!  I have *definitely* never heard of a cat doing that!!!

Even have it on video(Sad I know), He started doing it when he was
3months old, he loves that husky, he pinched it off my bed(much to the
disgust of my husband as he bought it as a present for me from Canada)
he carries it around , makes funny noises at it, pounces, bites it then
does you know what! before licking it madly, MAD cat! Even funnier as it
is a toy dog! I guess he will stop this after tomorrow. shame.

>>> respect in the last few days.  They've discovered the fishtank now,
>>> so the two of them are sat there chattering at the fish!  It's
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> open it from there, round the other side, in through the back, on top
> trying to lift the lid - monsters!!

Hope you have a video camera to hand!  They could make you some good
money on You've been Framed! :-)

>>>  Good luck for Friday - let us know how the little blighter is.  At
>>> least you will have all weekend to spend with him, helping him to get
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Be brave!  It will all be fine!
Try telling him that when he wakes up and finds something missing, not
sure he'd agree!

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FishWife - 22 Jan 2005 02:23 GMT
>>> He also has a toy husky that he likes to hump infront of everyone
>>>including visitors! VERY embarrassing!
>>   OMG!!!  I have *definitely* never heard of a cat doing that!!!
>
>Even have it on video(Sad I know),

Not at all, I've filled my mobile with videos and pictures of the
kittens!

>He started doing it when he was 3months old, he loves that husky, he
>pinched it off my bed(much to the disgust of my husband as he bought it
>as a present for me from Canada) he carries it around , makes funny
>noises at it, pounces, bites it then does you know what! before licking
>madly, MAD cat! Even funnier as it is a toy dog! I guess he will stop
>this after tomorrow. shame.

Not necessarily - as far as I'm aware, neutered cats still have the same
"urges", they just don't have the, umm, goods.  :o)  It does mean that
they don't go wandering looking for girl cats when they're on heat
though, which is a big part of why they stray.

>>   Oh they're trying their damndest to get in the fishtank.  They
>>start by pawing the glass, then they'll go round one side and see if
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Hope you have a video camera to hand!  They could make you some good
>money on You've been Framed! :-)

It's funny, Macavity went through exactly the same thing - but a lot
older. I'm sure it was about this time last year, we had to have the
step ladders out in front of the fishtank, and he'd just sit there for
*hours* watching the fish.  We got some excellent pictures of that!

>>   Be brave!  It will all be fine!
>Try telling him that when he wakes up and finds something missing, not
>sure he'd agree!

I don't think Macavity ever noticed.  He was a bit sore for a few days,
but was soon back to normal.  I don't think he even noticed his bald
patches where they'd shaved him.  I was really alarmed when he came back
with bits shaved - I was really unprepared for it!
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BC - 23 Jan 2005 12:44 GMT
>>>> He also has a toy husky that he likes to hump infront of everyone
>>>> including visitors! VERY embarrassing!
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> they don't go wandering looking for girl cats when they're on heat
> though, which is a big part of why they stray.

Well, I dont know how long it takes for the hormones to calm down, but
at the moment he is still in love with the husky, thought he would be
too sore but obviously not!  Little bugger also bit me twice when he
came home on friday even though he was acting pissed!

>>>   Oh they're trying their damndest to get in the fishtank.  They
>>> start by pawing the glass, then they'll go round one side and see if
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> patches where they'd shaved him.  I was really alarmed when he came back
> with bits shaved - I was really unprepared for it!
 Kiwi doesnt seem at all bothered so far.  The shaved bits dont look
too bad the worse was all the blood, I  suppose really it wasnt much but
it looked dreadful on a white cat.  He kept sniffing the blood then
curling his lips up trying to work out the smell!

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