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Cat Forum / General Topics / December 2004Question on Cat Pooping
Okay, I have a cat that was a stray that was living under our old house. I started taking care of her about 4 months ago and she has bonded with me and my family very well. We have just moved into a new home and brought the cat (Blackie) and her 4 5 week old kittens over last weekend. We have a good size back yard... half of it (in the back) was a garden and is a little overgrown and has a little ground cover. Blackie is pooping in the nicer part of the yard... and she is not burying her stool. I have moved the cats to the back part of the yard, but she is still pooping in the nice lawn covered yard. I do not want her to train the kittens to do whar she is doing and I want to train her to use the part of the yard I want her to use. This is my first pet and I am lost as to how to train her. HELP! [] > This is my first pet and I am lost as to how to train her. HELP! You probably won't like what I have to say, but that won't stop me from saying it. :-\ First of all, she isn't really your 'pet'. If she was, then her and her kittens would be enjoying a calm and relaxed lifestyle *inside* your house. By simply allowing them to be outside for any amount of time will shorten their lifespans drastically. Here is the short list of what your cat (and her kittens) *would* be missing if they were indoors: Getting hit by a car, feline leukemia, attacks by dogs, poisoned food, pesticides, cat fights, fleas, ticks, worms, abscesses, getting lost, getting stolen, steel-jaw traps, human cruelty, gunshot wounds, puncture wounds, wild animal attacks, cold, rainy weather. There now, aren't you the happy feline companion? How much easier it must be for you to just allow them to live outside... no litter boxes to scoop or clean. I hope that you *at least* had her spayed. As for your 'problem' with getting her to poop where you want her to... I sincerely hope she doesn't cooperate. :-) Cats like to do their business far away from where they eat, play, or sleep. If you are keeping them in a certain area, then don't expect them to piss and sh.t where they hang-out. Now, I suppose you can huff and puff about how much you like/love them... and how well you care for them. You'll please excuse me if I think it's just a song and dance.  SignatureHilly. Thanks for all your "help"... evidentally you must think I don't know enought to keep her within my fenced in yard, that I don't have steel jawed traps in my yard, that she's an outdoor cat. I have pretty much looked on the WWW to check on potty training for cats and followed that advice... she is now going where I want her to go. Thanks again for shooting down an excited new pet owner who was looking for some practical help. > [] > > This is my first pet and I am lost as to how to train her. HELP! [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > and how well you care for them. You'll please excuse me if I think it's > just a song and dance. > Thanks for all your "help"... evidentally you must think I don't > know enought to keep her within my fenced in yard, that I don't [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Thanks again for shooting down an excited new pet owner who was > looking for some practical help. Take no notice, this group is full of trolls. Good luck with your new pussy, hope to see some pictures soon..? Ivor >Take no notice, this group is full of trolls. Good luck with your new >pussy, hope to see some pictures soon..? Yup, we all like pictures of pussy. ;) (Sorry, had to be done) [] > Take no notice, this group is full of trolls. Yes, and it is also full of people who obviously have no clue about the proper care of domesticated felines. It is a *fact* that domesticated cats who are allowed to roam free outdoors have significantly shorter lifespans than those who are kept indoors. Do you really think that a fence can keep an adult cat from wandering free? Did you note the original poster's lack of statement re: spaying? Next time, Ivor, try not to hit the send key before engaging your brain. :-\ SignatureHilly. > [] >> Take no notice, this group is full of trolls. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Next time, Ivor, try not to hit the send key before engaging your > brain. :-\ I'm assuming you live in the US..? That seems to be where most people advocate keeping cats confined indoors. Here in the UK we don't share that view for the most part. I live in a relatively quiet street with no through traffic and over the last 25 years have had up to 4 cats at once, all of whom were allowed to roam free. All of them died natural deaths at good ages, the oldest I know of was 18 when she died, one of the others came to us as a stray and was with us for a good 15 years and he was fully adult when we first had him. One we had from a kitten was again at least 17 or 18, so please don't assume that what may apply where you live applies everywhere. I would only advocate keeping a cat indoors if it was say FIV+ or the area was indeed risky in terms of traffic etc. but that doesn't apply here. Ivor I'm sorry this has sparked so much debate... the mama cat is an outdoor cat. She can jump over the fence, the kittens can get through... We're not declawing the mama or the kitten(s) we're keeping, but will spay them. I'm a 39 year old man... never had any pets in my life and am quite excited about having these felines. My wife and kids are not only loving the cats, but also amused at my youthful enthusiasm at taking care of these critters! > > [] > >> Take no notice, this group is full of trolls. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Ivor >>[] >> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Ivor I too live in the uk and am really confused about why people in America have to keep their cats in. What happens to them if you let them out? I dont know anyone who keeps their cats in here, and it in no way shortens their lives. Also how do you manage to keep them in? My kitten runs for the door everytime we open it! Will be very glad when we can let him out! SignatureBadger Badger Badger [] > I too live in the uk and am really confused about why > people in America have to keep their cats in. Most of us are smart, and actually care about the dangers that outdoor cats are exposed to. > What happens to them if you let them out? What can happen? Any number of things. Suffice to say that *my* cats will never: - be run over by a car. - be exposed to FLV, FIV, or FIP. - get fleas or ticks. - be attacked by a wild animal. - be shot with a projectile weapon by a cruel person. - ingest pesticides or automotive antifreeze. (note: for anyone who hasn't seen an animal die from drinking antifreeze, it isn't a pretty site. Ethelyne Glycol poisons the central nervous system, and causes deaths that are most cruel.) - get scarred from fighting with other cats. - get worms. - get lost. - get stolen. - run away. It isn't rocket science. **Domesticated** cats should be just that. By all means, don't take my word for it. http://www.caws.org/indoorcat.html http://www.pets.telstra.com/Templates/StoryTemplate_Process.cfm?specie=Small_Pet s&story_no=279 Have any of you ever thought about the local population of birds? > I dont know anyone who keeps their cats in here, > and it in no way shortens their lives. Sure, uh huh... and all those flattened animals you pass on the roads just couldn't have belonged to somebody. You are extremely incorrect, and if you take the smallest amount of time to research the issue, you would realize that. > Also how do you manage to keep them in? My kitten > runs for the door everytime we open it! That is called instinct. Instinct is not necessarily a good thing in a domesticated animal. http://www.hawaiianhumane.org/animalcare/articles/outdoors.html SignatureHilly. > [] >> I too live in the uk and am really confused about why [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > - be run over by a car. > - be exposed to FLV, FIV, or FIP. Both fair enough risks to consider > - get fleas or ticks. Both easily treated and not worth worrying about > - be attacked by a wild animal. Won't happen in the UK, or NZ either. > - be shot with a projectile weapon by a cruel person. > - ingest pesticides or automotive antifreeze. God, the States must be a violent and dangerous place, with all those people going around shooting things, and all those chemicals just left lying around. > (note: for anyone who hasn't seen an animal die from drinking antifreeze, > it isn't a pretty site. Ethelyne Glycol poisons the central nervous > system, > and causes deaths that are most cruel.) > > - get scarred from fighting with other cats. Hardly something to limit their freedom for. > - get worms. Easily treated. > - get lost. I've never had a cat get lost. They are very good at knowing where home is. > - get stolen. Unlikely. > - run away. If a cat runs away, you shouldn't have it in the first place. You might like to consider this. My neighbours have two indoor cats (the only people in NZ I know who do have indoor cats). I got burgled recently - the burglars crowbared the front door open. My neighbour confessed to me that the thing that would worry her most about being burgled was that her cats had no outdoor survival skills and she'd be worried that something would happen to them before they could be recaptured. Likewise, I could point out that, if your house catches fire and your cats can't exit through a cat door, they will die in that fire. Won't happen to mine. Of the horrible, horrible things you mention, the first two risks are real ones and need to be considered. The rest are either easily treated or such minor risks in terms of likelihood of happening that they are easily outweighed by the benefits a cat gains from having room to move and a stimulating outdoor environment. BTW, if I lived in an area where there was a real risk of people taking pot shots at cats, or of poisoning cats, I wouldn't have cats. Simple. > God, the States must be a violent and dangerous place, with all those > people going around shooting things, and all those chemicals just left > lying around. Not really, but it does happen. The shooters are typically the same type of people who might write: "Most of us are smart, and actually care" in response to a question about the difference in perception between the US and the UK. >> - be attacked by a wild animal. > > Won't happen in the UK, or NZ either. And is extremely unlikely here as well. Unless you live very far outside most metropolitan areas. Even then, the potential threat from cars vs. wild animals is inversely proportional. >> - get worms. I knew it. My parents should have kept me inside. Sincerely, Philip Doolittle http://www.OdorDestroyer.com See www.odordestroyer.com/newsletter for free monthly information to help you and your pets. Latest articles: - How to Select a Veterinarian. - Great Gift Ideas for your Pets To subscribe visit: https://www.odordestroyer.com/subscribe2/index.mv >> [] >>> I too live in the uk and am really confused about why [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > BTW, if I lived in an area where there was a real risk of people taking > pot shots at cats, or of poisoning cats, I wouldn't have cats. Simple. >> God, the States must be a violent and dangerous place, with all those >> people going around shooting things, and all those chemicals just left [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > most metropolitan areas. Even then, the potential threat from cars vs. > wild animals is inversely proportional. But that's part of the point really, isn't it (and I'd quite like to debate this without it deteriorating into a flame war, if that's possible!). The whole thing is about risk assessment vs benefit assessment. If the risk of bad things happening is minimised (ie, no wild animals to eat them, houses chosen to reduce likelihood of straying on to the road, given all their shots etc) then the assumption must be either that the remaining risks are high or that the benefits are low. I see in this debate parallels of the debate about how much chldren should be allowed to do without parental supervision. I'm with Ivor - if I didn't live somewhere where my cats could have relatively low risk (not risk-free, because nothing is risk free) access to the outdoors, I doubt I'd have cats. > [] >> I too live in the uk and am really confused about why [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > - be shot with a projectile weapon by a cruel person. > - ingest pesticides or automotive antifreeze. None of these things have ever happened to any of my indoor/outdoor cats over the last 30 years or so. > (note: for anyone who hasn't seen an animal die from drinking > antifreeze, it isn't a pretty site. Ethelyne Glycol poisons the > central nervous system, and causes deaths that are most cruel.) I can imagine, and you have my sympathies. > - get scarred from fighting with other cats. > - get worms. > - get lost. > - get stolen. > - run away. None of these have ever happened to me either. > It isn't rocket science. **Domesticated** cats should be just that. You mean prisoners..? How would *you* like being confined all your life..? > By all means, don't take my word for it. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Have any of you ever thought about the local population of birds? What about them..? Cats catch birds, mice and other small creatures. It's called nature. >> I dont know anyone who keeps their cats in here, >> and it in no way shortens their lives. > > Sure, uh huh... and all those flattened animals you pass on the > roads just couldn't have belonged to somebody. Sure, it happens, my sympathies go to all who have lost animals in this way , but it doesn't happen to *all* cats that roam free. Explain please how *all* the cats I have had over the last 30 years have managed to survive to 16, 17, 18 years quite well without being confined to indoors..? I have a friend that lives on a far busier road than I do and he too has an 18 year old cat who has been allowed out all her life. > You are extremely incorrect, and if you take the smallest amount of > time to research the issue, you would realize that. You are incorrect. Cats aren't stupid, unlike some of their owners. >> Also how do you manage to keep them in? My kitten >> runs for the door everytime we open it! > > That is called instinct. Instinct is not necessarily a good thing > in a domesticated animal. Instinct is what keeps animals alive. Ivor > [] > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > - get stolen. > - run away. we in the uk spend alot of money on our cats preventing these things, we treat our cats for fleas and ticks regularly, we neuter to reduce fighting, over population and wandering. We worm our cats. We microchip our cats, so they can be returned when lost, and also put safety collars on them so the can be identified and returned. we insure them so we can always afford to take them to the vets when ill. We vacinate them. We look after them so they always WANT to come home. Because most cats are neutered and moggies and microchipped they very rarely get stolen. Yes this does all cost a lot of money but it is all well worth it. Cats do VERY rarely get shot, but most survive as they are taken to the vets and expensive treatment can be given due to our insurance. There are also RARE cases of poisoning, but usually through careless use of poisons and because there are stupid people everywhere. Our cats are very safe being let out so please dont compare us with you. Personally the way you describe where you live i wouldent keep cats if i lived there! > It isn't rocket science. **Domesticated** cats should be just that. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Sure, uh huh... and all those flattened animals you pass on the roads just > couldn't have belonged to somebody. That sounds terrible! I have only ever once seen a hit cat, which i got out of my car and moved to the side of the road(it had no collar on), When my next door neighbours cat was killed we got it back because someone had found it and put an add in the paper. The other two cats that i know which were hit by cars both lived on with vetinary help. You make it sound like there are dead cats everywhere!!!! > You are extremely incorrect, and if you take the smallest amount of time to > research the issue, you would realize that. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > That is called instinct. Instinct is not necessarily a good thing in a > domesticated animal. Why not? > http://www.hawaiianhumane.org/animalcare/articles/outdoors.html SignatureBadger Badger Badger > I too live in the uk and am really confused about why people in > America have to keep their cats in. Perhaps the biggest reason is that Feline Lukemia is very prevalent here. Sincerely, Philip Doolittle http://www.OdorDestroyer.com See www.odordestroyer.com/newsletter for free monthly information to help you and your pets. Latest articles: - How to Select a Veterinarian. - Great Gift Ideas for your Pets >> I too live in the uk and am really confused about why people in >> America have to keep their cats in. > > Perhaps the biggest reason is that Feline Lukemia is very prevalent > here. That's a good reason but unfortunate that it's the case where you are. We're lucky not to have a great deal of that here, although FIV seems to be on the increase :-( Personally though I wouldn't have cats if I couldn't let them out. Ivor >>> I too live in the uk and am really confused about why people in >>> America have to keep their cats in. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Personally though I wouldn't have cats if I couldn't let them out. Me too. But it does appear to be one of those cultural differences that's developed. What's quite interesting is that it's beginning to develop in Australia, from what I can tell, too, mainly because of local authority bylaws that are being introduced that all cats must be contained on the owners' property. I was quite stunned when I spent a week in Melbourne recently, staying in one of the suburbs of Monash and travelling to/from the city or walking around where I was staying every day, and in that time I saw 1 cat. That's right - 1. Looks like it's just another difference emerging between us and them, and it won't be too long before even the accents are so different you won't have any trouble telling us apart ;- Not all Americans are "inside only" owners. But a large percentage of US residents live in the city/suburbs where wandering cats do face serious threats. Not the least of which is neighbors who dislike cats. As for me, mine are all in/out cats. I live about 30 miles from a major city (Atlanta, Ga - USA) where that is possible. Granted, there are risks but they are managable. And I manage them as best is possible with vaccinations, regular check ups, identification, etc. Sincerely, Philip Doolittle http://www.OdorDestroyer.com See www.odordestroyer.com/newsletter for free monthly information to help you and your pets. Latest articles: - How to Select a Veterinarian. - Great Gift Ideas for your Pets To subscribe visit: https://www.odordestroyer.com/subscribe2/index.mv >>>> I too live in the uk and am really confused about why people in >>>> America have to keep their cats in. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > them, and it won't be too long before even the accents are so different > you won't have any trouble telling us apart ;- > Not all Americans are "inside only" owners. But a large percentage of US > residents live in the city/suburbs where wandering cats do face serious > threats. Not the least of which is neighbors who dislike cats. And I guess this is where the major difference in perception occurs. Kiwis have always been used to having space, and having cats that roam freely. Only now is there any sort of apartment culture springing up (for humans that is!), and then it's confined pretty much to Auckland - the largest city. I don't know any Kiwis who would choose to have a cat if they were living in an apartment - we perceive cats as pets that need space and need freedom. However, I was interested to read an article in our paper today, which mentioned the problems the SPCA faces with foreign students, who are used to having cats in apartments, dumping their cats once they finish their studies and return home. > I was quite stunned when I spent a week in Melbourne recently, staying in > one of the suburbs of Monash and travelling to/from the city or walking > around where I was staying every day, and in that time I saw 1 cat. That's > right - 1. I'm astonished, Ashley. What is the reason for the bylaw? Kiwi Gill >> I was quite stunned when I spent a week in Melbourne recently, staying in >> one of the suburbs of Monash and travelling to/from the city or walking [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I'm astonished, Ashley. What is the reason for the bylaw? The main reason quoted is protection of wildlife, which, if ever such laws become currency here, will be the reason quoted here as well. But, as the following paper shows, when you're talking about urban cats, this is actually a load of bollocks (if you'll pardon my abruptness!) http://tinyurl.com/42n2f But other reasons basically include the "if dogs have to be controlled, cats should be as well" brigade (which basically seems like sour grapes to me); people should be able to keep cats off their property if they want to (I have no problem with that, and have even told my neighbour, when she complained about my cats digging in her garden that I was quite happy for her to shoo them away with a water bottle or anything else that would scare them and make them avoid her place, and that I'd even buy her some cat repellent if she wanted to spray some of that around. She hasn't taken me up on the offer at all, which suggests that she simply wanted an excuse to moan!); and just, generally, that Australians aren't the cat lovers that NZers are - they're doggie people. Did you know that we have the highest per capita cat ownership in the Western world? I was told that by a cat person, and I found this following evidence, which certainly seems to back it up http://www.petfoodnz.co.nz/ - click on reference and pet ownership "Ashley" wrote > > "Kiwi Gill" > > I'm astonished, Ashley. What is the reason for the bylaw? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > http://tinyurl.com/42n2f Interesting stuff, thanks. It's to be hoped commonsense will prevail here, it's already known that stoats, etc, do the damage. But we musn't under-estimate the "do-gooders" who need to feel they are doing all they can to get their superiority fix, so who knows..... ::-( Reminds me of the 200+ once-common garden plants that are now "bad plants" and banned from sale). Kiwi Gill > "Ashley" wrote > >> "Kiwi Gill" > > I'm astonished, Ashley. What is the reason for the bylaw? [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > 200+ > once-common garden plants that are now "bad plants" and banned from sale). The answer in NZ is quite simple: precisely how many kiwi, kakapo and chatam island robins live in urban areas? FWIW, I don't believe it will become an issue in NZ. I seriously believe it's against our culture to contain cats where they don't need to be contained! > Next time try not to hit the send key before engaging your brain. Good advice for all. After all, it would be pretty dumb and embarrassing to respond to "This is my first pet... HELP!" with a wild rant about how ignorant the poster is. > Do you really think that a fence can keep an adult cat from wandering > free? Hmmm... The poster wrote; "This is my first pet... HELP!" and later wrote "keep her within my fenced in yard". I'm not a mind reader, but IMHO I would say yes, he does in fact think so. And, I'll even hazard a guess that he doesn't know because this is his first pet and he needs help. Perhaps we should suggest that he post his questions to a cat related newsgroup for assistance? > Did you note the original poster's lack of statement re: spaying? Yep. And I'm not sure exactly why, but I more I thought about it one thing kept sticking in my mind... "Perhaps this is his first pet and he needs help" > Yes, and it is also full of people who obviously have no clue about the > proper care of domesticated felines. Very true. And also full of people who obviously have no clue about the proper care of interpersonal relationships. Sincerely, Philip Doolittle http://www.OdorDestroyer.com P.S. Perhaps the next time you need to communicate an idea, you might try speaking to the person as if they were human. If you do, I think you will find them much more receptive to your ideas than when you present them in the manner you have. For example, I could have begun this post by telling you what an arrogant jackass you really are, but that would have only put you on the defensive and made communication difficult. Instead, I choose enhance communications by ignoring your display of ignorance and dealing with you as if you are actually an intelligent person. Granted, there is significant evidence to suggest otherwise but I prefer not to judge a book by it's cover. > evidentally you must think I don't know enought to keep > her within my fenced in yard, that I don't have steel jawed > traps in my yard, that she's an outdoor cat. You are making poor excuses for endangering the life of 'your' cat and her kittens. Unless your fence is plastic, smooth, and over 7' tall, then it won't keep an adult cat from wandering. Maybe there aren't any steel traps in your yard, but each and every one of the other dangers I listed are more than pertinent. [] > Thanks again for shooting down an excited new pet > owner who was looking for some practical help. It's quite obvious that practicality doesn't enter your mind in the least when it comes to the health and safety of 'your' cat. SignatureHilly. > It's quite obvious that practicality doesn't enter your mind in the least > when it comes to the health and safety of 'your' cat. For those who live outside the States, reading this, what you are seeing is a cultural reaction that takes no account of differing environments. Learn not to let it bother you. |
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