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Cat Forum / General Topics / November 2004Mother Cat Killing Kits
Last Saturday my cat had five kittens, healthy and doing well. Queen stayed with them at least 20 hours out of 24, seemed content. Last night I awoke to a chilling sound - by the time I made my way over to the sound, I discover the mother cat GNAWING on one of her kittens (she had removed it from the nest first). I threw her and the kitten in her clenched jaws into the bathroom and this morning had to clean up all the blood. Needless to say, how much more disturbing can it get? Checking her nest I find another of the kittens dead in it. Third kitten - totally missing (consumed?). She is tending to the remaining two kittens. Wtf? Is my cat a sociopath? Were five kits too much for her to handle and so she decided to cull the herd? This morning I had to clean blood off the carpet...the bathroom floor. I may never look at the mother cat the same way again. Eating her own kittens, is that not extremely unusual? What could it mean? (she's well fed, obviously). Jean  Signature|\ _.-'~~""'~`'~) /, ~-,__,,,.'~ ,-;;--'' |,4) ./ ' ; ;/' '-~~;'@ ( ; ; _.--'' _.-_..' .;.' (,_..----''' (,..--'' > Last Saturday my cat had five kittens, healthy and doing well. Queen > stayed with them at least 20 hours out of 24, seemed content. Last night [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > kittens, is that not extremely unusual? What could it mean? (she's well > fed, obviously). well maybe there was something wrong with the kittens? not really sure myself but these things happen. Can be for different reason! I do feel for you, this must of been a terrible experience for you to see. >> Last Saturday my cat had five kittens, healthy and doing well. Queen stayed >> with them at least 20 hours out of 24, seemed content. Last night I awoke to [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > well maybe there was something wrong with the kittens? not really sure myself > but these things happen. Can be for different reason! The vet thinks it was a stress reaction. He said that often mother cats will kill sick kits and consume them - also if they feel unsafe in their nest she will kill them in a weird sort of "protective" frenzy. We shall see is the other two survive. > I do feel for you, this must of been a terrible experience for you to see. It was a weird way to wake up at 4am. Thanks. Jean > Last Saturday my cat had five kittens, healthy and doing well. Queen stayed > with them at least 20 hours out of 24, seemed content. Last night I awoke to a [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Jean My wife has asked if you took her to the vet after the first time. >> Last Saturday my cat had five kittens, healthy and doing well. Queen stayed >> with them at least 20 hours out of 24, seemed content. Last night I awoke to [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > My wife has asked if you took her to the vet after the first time. Well it was 4 in the morning and by then the massacre was over. I did take her today during office hours and he told me that what happened isn't all that uncommon. Jean >>>Last Saturday my cat had five kittens, healthy and doing well. Queen stayed >>>with them at least 20 hours out of 24, seemed content. Last night I awoke to [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Jean I have heard this is quite common in rabbits when they do not feel safe . Do you have any other pets, or children that have been upsetting her. Have you been treating her any differently since she had the kittens, like spending all your time with them and ignoring her, if she was a very close cat to you this may have made her jealous. I understand this must have been quite upsetting for you but this is still your beloved cat and she obviously felt that this was the right thing to do, even if it really is quite a horrific thing in our eyes. Is there no chance of hand rearing them as they are at so much risk with their mother? I am presuming as this was such a disaster that you will be preventing her from having any more kittens in the future. Really hope everything works out in the end and that the two remaining kittens survive and you forgive her. Good luck. >>>>Last Saturday my cat had five kittens, healthy and doing well. Queen stayed >>>>with them at least 20 hours out of 24, seemed content. Last night I awoke [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > was the right thing to do, even if it really is quite a horrific thing in our > eyes. Oh I totally agree with you - sometimes we forget that they are, after all, animals. My vet explained things to me in a way that I could totally see what she did as a response to stress (though I'm still not sure what that stress was, exactly) - maybe if I'd allowed her to put the kits where she wanted to, this would never have happened. > Is there no chance of hand rearing them as they are at so much risk with their > mother? I am presuming as this was such a disaster that you will be preventing > her from having any more kittens in the future. Really hope everything works > out in the end and that the two remaining kittens survive and you forgive her. > Good luck. No more kittens for her - however, she's been an excellent, attentive mother up to this point, how strange eh? I'm thinking, given the current situation with the kits nesting where the mother seems to want them to nest, the problem is likely resolved. I live in an apartment so I can't imagine how I'd be able to separate and hand rear them without REALLY upsetting the mother. (Plus there's that whole job thing.) Thank you very much for taking the time to respond with your questions and comments, I really appreciate it. It was so upsetting but I am feeling a lot calmer and better about it now. It helps to talk. Jean I know it sounds strange, but a screen door inside may be your answer. We have had to do that in the past for fosters that did not get along. It's also a way to get to animals used to each other before a full fledged introduction. Just place an ordinary screen door in front of a bedroom, bathroom, or other door just like you would your front door. Your kitties can see, hear, and smell each other but not get to each other while you are out. Philip http://www.OdorDestroyer.com > Luna wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > our > eyes. Oh I totally agree with you - sometimes we forget that they are, after all, animals. My vet explained things to me in a way that I could totally see what she did as a response to stress (though I'm still not sure what that stress was, exactly) - maybe if I'd allowed her to put the kits where she wanted to, this would never have happened. > Is there no chance of hand rearing them as they are at so much risk with > their [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > her. > Good luck. No more kittens for her - however, she's been an excellent, attentive mother up to this point, how strange eh? I'm thinking, given the current situation with the kits nesting where the mother seems to want them to nest, the problem is likely resolved. I live in an apartment so I can't imagine how I'd be able to separate and hand rear them without REALLY upsetting the mother. (Plus there's that whole job thing.) Thank you very much for taking the time to respond with your questions and comments, I really appreciate it. It was so upsetting but I am feeling a lot calmer and better about it now. It helps to talk. Jean >>>>>Last Saturday my cat had five kittens, healthy and doing well. Queen stayed >>>>>with them at least 20 hours out of 24, seemed content. Last night I awoke [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > Jean That was my wife who responded, she's much more of an animal person than I am. I have passed on your thanks to her. Ben SignatureBadger Badger Badger > Last Saturday my cat had five kittens, healthy and doing well. Queen stayed > with them at least 20 hours out of 24, seemed content. Last night I awoke to a [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Jean That's awful :o( In your situation I would seriously think about having mother cat put down. Owen Re: Mother Cat Killing Kits Group: alt.pets.cats Date: Thu, Nov 4, 2004, 4:34pm (EST+5) From: spam@spam.com (owen) "Luna" <jean_collins@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:2u4j9iF2521lcU1@uni-berlin.de... Last Saturday my cat had five kittens, healthy and doing well. Queen stayed with them at least 20 hours out of 24, seemed content. Last night I awoke to a chilling sound - by the time I made my way over to the sound, I discover the mother cat GNAWING on one of her kittens (she had removed it from the nest first). I threw her and the kitten in her clenched jaws into the bathroom and this morning had to clean up all the blood. Needless to say, how much more disturbing can it get? Checking her nest I find another of the kittens dead in it. Third kitten - totally missing (consumed?). She is tending to the remaining two kittens. Wtf? Is my cat a sociopath? Were five kits too much for her to handle and so she decided to cull the herd? This morning I had to clean blood off the carpet...the bathroom floor. I may never look at the mother cat the same way again. Eating her own kittens, is that not extremely unusual? What could it mean? (she's well fed, obviously). Jean That's awful :o( In your situation I would seriously think about having mother cat put down. Owen Why have her put down? Yes it is terrible that she did that to her own kitties but just get her fixed but in the mean time keep her inside don't let her out. Some cats can get pregnant while they're still nursing. "Hi Im WEEniE with MyFav4ite Midi" <Ahh_YEs_HaPPyTrailz_back_again@webtv.net> wrote in message news:16590-418CDD49-7@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net... > Re: Mother Cat Killing Kits > Why have her put down? Because (a) she might do it again to the surviving kittens (b) she might do it to other cat/kittens she encounters (c) she cannot be given away for adoption because what she did will put people off (d) if it were me, i could never look at her as my beloved pet anymore. it is just my personal view of what I'd do > Yes it is terrible that she did that to her own > kitties but just get her fixed but in the mean time keep her inside > don't let her out. Some cats can get pregnant while they're still > nursing. Better still get her spayed so she cannot get pregnant ever again. Owen > "Hi Im WEEniE with MyFav4ite Midi" > <Ahh_YEs_HaPPyTrailz_back_again@webtv.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Owen Did you read all the replies to the original message? This cat does not in any way need to be put down. Unfortunatly her owner was too caring and moved the kittens to wear she thought was best, this resulted in the mother feeling that her kittens were in someway unsafe and destroyed some of them to protect herself and the remaining ones. I do however agree that the cat needs to be neutered, not to protect future kittens but because there are too many unwanted cats around. Does anyone know how the remaining kittens are? SignatureBadger Badger Badger Re: Mother Cat Killing Kits Group: alt.pets.cats Date: Mon, Nov 8, 2004, 10:45am (EST+5) From: spam@spam.com (owen) "Hi Im WEEniE with MyFav4ite Midi" <Ahh_YEs_HaPPyTrailz_back_again@webtv.net> wrote in message news:16590-418CDD49-7@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net... Re: Mother Cat Killing Kits Why have her put down? Because (a) she might do it again to the surviving kittens (b) she might do it to other cat/kittens she encounters (c) she cannot be given away for adoption because what she did will put people off (d) if it were me, i could never look at her as my beloved pet anymore. it is just my personal view of what I'd do Yes it is terrible that she did that to her own kitties but just get her fixed but in the mean time keep her inside don't let her out. Some cats can get pregnant while they're still nursing. Better still get her spayed so she cannot get pregnant ever again. Owen How old are the surving kittens? Is she still nursing them? There had to be a reason for her to do that to her other ones. Doesn't mean she's a bad cat & as far as her doing it to some other kittens especially if they aren't hers. How could that happen unless someone puts them in front of her & even then you don't know. If you have to could you sort of be a surrogate mother for those kittens. I know it can be done.. Forgive your cat. Don't put her down. Get her fixed. Eventually all will be well with you & her "Hi Im WEEniE with MyFav4ite Midi" <Ahh_YEs_HaPPyTrailz_back_again@webtv.net> wrote in message news:16590-418CDD49-7@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net... > Why have her put down? One other point - Dogs are put down for doing far less than this. (eg. just biting a human) > "Hi Im WEEniE with MyFav4ite Midi" > <Ahh_YEs_HaPPyTrailz_back_again@webtv.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Dogs are put down for doing far less than this. (eg. just biting a human) Biting a human is a very serious thing which very rarely happens because a dog is truely evil. More often it is because people tease dogs, mess with them while they are trying to eat, sleep or are too hot. Or because we train them to be agressive. Unfortunatly if a dog bites somone it is always percieved to be the dogs fault, nobody ever seems to take any notice of what that person did to deserve it! As for cats, do you want them to be put down every time they kill a mouse or a bird as well? Or only if they kill a bird as they are pretty and mice are pests! SignatureBadger Badger Badger > > "Hi Im WEEniE with MyFav4ite Midi" > > <Ahh_YEs_HaPPyTrailz_back_again@webtv.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > > Biting a human is a very serious thing I would suggest biting a human is less serious than killing 3 or 4 kittens. > which very rarely happens because > a dog is truely evil. More often it is because people tease dogs, mess > with them while they are trying to eat, sleep or are too hot. Or because > we train them to be agressive. Unfortunatly if a dog bites somone it is > always percieved to be the dogs fault, nobody ever seems to take any > notice of what that person did to deserve it! No, the person does not always deserve it. Sometimes the dog just has a viscious streak that cannot be controlled. I know from experience. > As for cats, do you want them to be put down every time they kill a > mouse or a bird as well? No, but then killing mice and birds wouldnt cause me to loathe my cat. > Or only if they kill a bird as they are pretty > and mice are pests! Neither. Owen >>>"Hi Im WEEniE with MyFav4ite Midi" >>><Ahh_YEs_HaPPyTrailz_back_again@webtv.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >>Biting a human is a very serious thing > I would suggest biting a human is less serious than killing 3 or 4 kittens. Not when the cat is doing it out of instinct to protect herself and her other kittens from a danger that a human created. Too many people forget that animals are animals and live by their own rules, not necessarily by what we see as acceptable in our world. However much I love animals their is no comparison between a cat killing her own kittens for safety and a dog biting a human, especially a child. >>which very rarely happens because >>a dog is truely evil. More often it is because people tease dogs, mess [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > No, the person does not always deserve it. Sometimes the dog just has a > viscious streak that cannot be controlled. I know from experience. So a dog just bit you for no reason at all? I was bitten as a child by a alsation as i rode past its owners house as they had left the gate open. The dog was trying to protect his house as he had been trained to. It was an absolutly terrifying and painful experience for an 8 year old but totally the fault of poor training and carelessness of the owners. Not the dogs fault, they dont have the ability to see that what they are being taught is wrong like we do. >>As for cats, do you want them to be put down every time they kill a >>mouse or a bird as well? > > No, but then killing mice and birds wouldnt cause me to loathe my cat. Why not? Your either against your cat killing or your not? Your expecting your cat to think the same as you do. A cat killing its young for protection is as natural as a cat killing animals to eat or play with. Not all cats would kill their young in the same way that not all cats hunt live animals! >>Or only if they kill a bird as they are pretty >>and mice are pests! > > Neither. > > Owen SignatureBadger Badger Badger > > No, but then killing mice and birds wouldnt cause me to loathe my cat. > > Why not? Because killing mice and birds is what cats do naturally. It's not something a human would cause or prevent. > expecting your cat to think the same as you do. A cat killing its young > for protection is as natural as a cat killing animals to eat or play Hold on a second. Back up here. Can you explain to me again, exactly how killing a kitten "protects" it? I'm afraid I don't understand that logic. > with. Not all cats would kill their young in the same way that not all > cats hunt live animals! Fine, then put down the cats that do kill their young and leave the rest alone. Owen -- Mushroom Mushroom ;o) > Hold on a second. Back up here. Can you explain to me again, exactly how > killing a kitten "protects" it? I'm afraid I don't understand that logic. It can be to protect the mother and also to protect the kitten by killing it before a predator can. Sorry if i didnt explain myself properly. Try taking a look at www.messybeast.com/kill_kit.htm > Owen > -- > Mushroom Mushroom ;o) SignatureBadger Badger Badger >Hold on a second. Back up here. Can you explain to me again, exactly how >killing a kitten "protects" it? I'm afraid I don't understand that logic. Remember that cats are animals. No matter how long they have been domesticated, they are still animals. They don't follow the same society rules we do. In nature, it is not uncommon for the mother or father of a litter/pride/brood/den/nest to either force weaker young out of the "family home" (to die, let's call it what it is) or just kill them outright. It's done to protect the remaining offspring. If the number of offspring is too high, then there's a good chance the will all die due to malnutrition. Weaklings could slow down the whole group enough to endanger all. Nature is cruel. Just deal with it. >>Hold on a second. Back up here. Can you explain to me again, exactly how >>killing a kitten "protects" it? I'm afraid I don't understand that logic. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Nature is cruel. Just deal with it. Amen to your last line. I can't stand to watch some of the nature shows for this very reason. MLB > >Hold on a second. Back up here. Can you explain to me again, exactly how > >killing a kitten "protects" it? I'm afraid I don't understand that logic. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Nature is cruel. Just deal with it. Humans are animals too. A household is in fact, a "pack", and a pet is just another member of the family. Kittens are family members for the whole pack (of humans/cats). So by your logic it's OK to kill that cat if it's a threat to the survival of others (in this case kittens). So, you've proved me right. Thanks. Owen >> >Hold on a second. Back up here. Can you explain to me again, exactly >how [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > >Owen Let's not get carried away. Although humans are indeed animals, we are on an order far above house cats. You can't compare the two in this situation. [snip] > Let's not get carried away. Although humans are indeed animals, we > are on an order far above house cats. You can't compare the two in > this situation. Obviously not a cat person ;-) Ivor >>>>Hold on a second. Back up here. Can you explain to me again, exactly >> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > are on an order far above house cats. You can't compare the two in > this situation. We do not actually live in a pack. Humans and animals do not naturally co-exist as a pack would, technically we are predators and they are our prey, but we have evolved to find pleasure in these animals by not eating them and the animals have realised they are onto a good thing!(free food,safety,warmth etc.) But we still do our own human things and they do their animal things, which we should not interfere with unless we want unhappy animals who will then leave for a happier home! If people dont like what animals do naturally maybe they should not keep them. SignatureBadger Badger Badger > > No, the person does not always deserve it. Sometimes the dog just has a > > viscious streak that cannot be controlled. I know from experience. > > > So a dog just bit you for no reason at all? No, a dog did not bite me. She bit my mother, *without provocation*, and as a result, my dad ordered her to be put to sleep (the dog, not my mother!). No questions, no arguments, just... goodbye. She was our pet, and my friend, and I was very upset by this. If she'd bitten me, I'd have kept it secret, to save her. But sooner or later she might have bitten someone else or a child. (Which presumably was my dad's thinking). It was over-zelous playfulness (didn't no the boundary where playing became violent) combined with a viscious streak that she didn't seem able to control. Most times, she was adorable and loving. And, BTW, she was very well looked after, our family had dogs as pets for about 20 years before her. None had a problem besides her. > >>As for cats, do you want them to be put down every time they kill a > >>mouse or a bird as well? [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > -- > Badger Badger Badger >>>No, the person does not always deserve it. Sometimes the dog just has a >>>viscious streak that cannot be controlled. I know from experience. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > no the boundary where playing became violent) combined with a viscious > streak that she didn't seem able to control. And was therefore not suitable for a family with children, or at the very least would have benefited from retraining by an expert. If it was known that she could become boisterous when playing, and this is purely my opinion then that situation should have been avoided. But then i personally am not in favour of putting any animal down unless all avenues have been tried and have failed. Most times, she was adorable > and loving. And, BTW, she was very well looked after, our family had dogs > as pets for about 20 years before her. None had a problem besides her. I dont doubt that she wasn't well looked after. But no matter how many years of experience you have you can still come across an animal which is different! >>Badger Badger Badger SignatureBadger Badger Badger > And was therefore not suitable for a family with children, The only 'children' in the family were all over 18. > If it was > known that she could become boisterous when playing, It wasn't. >> And was therefore not suitable for a family with children, > > The only 'children' in the family were all over 18. sorry, but when i read this: "If she'd bitten me, I'd have kept it secret, to save her." I presumed you must have been a child at the time as i thought an adult would have been more responsible and told the truth, I will not presume again. >>If it was >>known that she could become boisterous when playing, > > It wasn't. I will remind you of what you wrote: "It was over-zelous playfulness (didn't no the boundary where playing became violent) combined with a viscious streak that she didn't seem able to control." Sorry if i also read this wrong! SignatureBadger Badger Badger The killing of young babies (Cats Dogs, and etc.) could be resulted because they are ill. Although I feel bad that this happened we as humans are unable to determine the true cause of the killings. And putting poor the mother to sleep is not the solution to the problem. The solution would have been, in my opinion, to save one of the killed kittens (in this case) and taken it to the vet to make sure the mother wasn't trying to save the kitten from a life of suffering. I am not saying that this was the case but it was a possibility. And no matter the reason the mother cat was doing this it was what she thought was right for the kittens and who are we to judge her in her instinct to survive. Sara |
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