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Cat Forum / General Topics / May 2006Animal lovers, please help me save these animals!
There is an animal shelter in my town that is really bad-so bad that PETA has done an expose on them-please visit this site and take action! http://www.peta.org/feat/acgas/index.shtml There is a "what you can do" section that tells you how you can help. Thanks so much for reading and pass this link onto anyone who cares about animals!!!!! [Kim (kimpheffer@mchsi.com)] [Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:27:06 GMT] :There is an animal shelter in my town that is really bad-so bad that PETA :has done an expose on them-please visit this site and take action! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] :Thanks so much for reading and pass this link onto anyone who cares about :animals!!!!! Peta is a collection of fascist idiots. Their interest is in using shock tactics to control.. they are zealots and dangerous people.  SignatureBryan S. Slick, usenet at slick-family dot net "To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know." > Peta is a collection of fascist idiots. Their interest is in using > shock tactics to control.. they are zealots and dangerous people. I don't think that actually changes the fact that it's a bad shelter. That said, the most effective tactic is generally to create a consensus within the LOCAL community that the shelter serves that things have got to change and soon. Outraged e-mails from all over the country generally provoke a defensive reaction. The best thing to do is make sure your neighbors and community members all know about it, and write, call, do letters to the editor, sign petitions and so on. > > Peta is a collection of fascist idiots. Their interest is in using > > shock tactics to control.. they are zealots and dangerous people. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > all know about it, and write, call, do letters to the editor, sign > petitions and so on. "Creating a consensus," to use your words, is meaningless. What matters is actual law, passed with due process by state legislatures (or in some cases, by county or city actions). If liquidating puppies and kittens is permitted, then it is permitted. Period. Those who think otherwise need to have their familiies burned alive. --Tim May > Peta ... Their interest is in using > shock tactics to control... However, while PETA tactics may be questionable, they have brought to light a lot of bad practices regarding animal suffering. In addition, one can argue from history that playing nice would get the issue nowhere, real slow. In the US things always have to reach crisis proportions (e.g. Pearl Harbor, civil rights, S&L crisis, 9/11, Enron, Abu Grahib) before any action is taken to remedy the problem. Does anyone know if PETA ever staged their proposed "Run of the Nudes" in Pamplona, Spain? :) i'm sorry but i don't count myself as a fascist idoit. i also dont believe you know the meaning of the word fascist. i am a member and activist for PETA and just because some ppl take it too far doesn't mean we're all bad. if you'd like to badmouth a great organization at least do your research first. >[Kim (kimpheffer@mchsi.com)] >[Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:27:06 GMT] [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Peta is a collection of fascist idiots. Their interest is in using >shock tactics to control.. they are zealots and dangerous people. Trying to steal the thunder from Arnold, "Kim" <kimpheffer@mchsi.com> on Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:27:06 GMT spoke: >There is a "what you can do" section that tells you how you can help. The story mentions 'local indifference', why should I do anything at all?? SignatureThe truth is out there, but it's not interesting enough for most people. This is PETA we're talking about. They would attack anyone that doesn't follow their fife and drum. Just look at their video regarding the shelter. They don't have any narration, nor do they show where it was shot, or don't seem to have any escort when walking the grounds. That video could have been shot anywhere. You also notice that PETA does not even release any of the animals or do anything to rescue them. I have to wonder where they get half their material, photos, etc when they do this stuff? SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > There is an animal shelter in my town that is really bad-so bad that PETA > has done an expose on them-please visit this site and take action! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Thanks so much for reading and pass this link onto anyone who cares about > animals!!!!! lol So NOW you question the intent of a news report... too too funny > This is PETA we're talking about. They would attack anyone that doesn't > follow their fife and drum. Just look at their video regarding the shelter. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Thanks so much for reading and pass this link onto anyone who cares about > > animals!!!!! That was not a news report on their Site. That was a PETA video. A news report would actually provide evidence and also have a station number or at least a reporter doing interviews. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > lol > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > about >> > animals!!!!! FWIW, the photos are from a NC Ag Dept. inspection. You can view them at this website as well: http://home.mchsi.com/~endanimalsuffering/ And after watching the video and comparing it to the photos I don't see why you would question its authenticity. If you don'y like PETA that's no biggie but this is an all too real problem. Do a search for "All Creatures" at www.hendersonvillenews.com and judge for yourself. thanks > This is PETA we're talking about. They would attack anyone that doesn't > follow their fife and drum. Just look at their video regarding the shelter. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thanks so much for reading and pass this link onto anyone who cares about > > animals!!!!! How would PETA have gotten hold of it? These days I have a hard time believing that group. Also the Site you provided is just another animal rights Site. It would be more believable if it was on the news and was indeed verified by a credible source. Can you provide a news station that backs up the story or had their own investigative reporter go in to report and film? SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > FWIW, the photos are from a NC Ag Dept. inspection. You can view them at > this website as well: [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > about >> > animals!!!!! > How would PETA have gotten hold of it? These days I have a hard time > believing that group. Also the Site you provided is just another animal > rights Site. It would be more believable if it was on the news and was > indeed verified by a credible source. Can you provide a news station that > backs up the story or had their own investigative reporter go in to report > and film? The video was taken by a local concerned animal lover and sent to PETA. WLOS in Asheville has done several stories about this so-called shelter. Also check the www.citizen-times.com website as well as www.hendersonvillenews.com for more news coverage. How would they have allowed even a concerned animal lover to just waltz right in to take pictures or even shoot video. I also checked your sources and did not see any stories about this. The problem with PETA is believability as they staged a lot of stuff in order to force people to see things their way. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > > The video was taken by a local concerned animal lover and sent to PETA. > WLOS in Asheville has done several stories about this so-called shelter. > Also check the www.citizen-times.com website as well as > www.hendersonvillenews.com > for more news coverage. > How would they have allowed even a concerned animal lover to just waltz > right in to take pictures or even shoot video. I also checked your sources > and did not see any stories about this. The problem with PETA is > believability as they staged a lot of stuff in order to force people to see > things their way. Since I've never worked for them I can't vouch for their security or lack thereof. It seems that this was a hidden camera. My sources that I gave are valid-do you know how to run a simple search? Here's one story to get you started from today's paper-if you need me to hold your hand and find more of them just let me know. http://www.hendersonvillenews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040920/NEWS/40920 0320/1042/NEWS01 >>How would they have allowed even a concerned animal lover to just waltz >>right in to take pictures or even shoot video. I also checked your sources [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Since I've never worked for them I can't vouch for their security or lack > thereof. Very cheeky. It seems that this was a hidden camera. My sources that I gave > are valid- "I want so badly to be taken seriously." do you know how to run a simple search? "I am patronizing you along with everyone else, because I must show you the light." Here's one story to get > you started from today's paper-if you need me to hold your hand and find > more of them just let me know. "Once again, I take myself so damned seriously, that you -must- as well. The mere fact I stand on my stump and preach should tell you that fact. This part of my identity shall not be threatened by someone who dares to doubt me." If you're going to be a successful activist, and align yourself with groups like PETA, you'd better develop a much thicker skin, and be prepared to provide robust, lucid and factual responses -quickly- to absolutely scathing criticism without so much as batting an eyelash. Your arrogance is laughable, by the way. You come across like an overconfident child. In an earlier post, I demonstrated to everyone who cared to see how you just lazily and snottily dismissed someone who factually contradicted you. You used the word "accusation" incorrectly, too, and didn't even answer the simple question - "were you actually there?" It was apparent, to the responder at least, that you were not. You have not responded to her or to me about this, and I do not expect a response, not one that has any substance, anyway. By behaving this way, and by not providing vigorously thorough, verifiably researched material and responses to back up your claims, you are discrediting the very cause to which you are so dedicated. You and the majority of political activists, for that matter, don't seem to understand that concept. You shoot yourselves in the foot, then blame it on the ignorance and stupidity of others. That, again, is why so few people actually take you seriously. You damage your own credibility (which is everything, by the way) and act like kids throwing tantrums over and over, and it becomes background noise and people just tune you out, and dismiss YOU. Class dismissed. Go piss up a rope. It will do just as much good as you are doing now. The owners of the shelter are not interested in placing them in homes, they are collectors. Animal hoarding is a big problem with these people-they have at least three houses in the county with hidden animals in storage. > You also notice that PETA does not even release any of the > animals or do anything to rescue them. I have to wonder where they get half > their material, photos, etc when they do this stuff? > The owners of the shelter are not interested in placing them in homes, they > are collectors. Animal hoarding is a big problem with these people-they > have at least three houses in the county with hidden animals in storage. The laws are what they are. I am paid by how many dogs and cats and other animals (above a certain level of intelligence) I catch. I am paid for what I take in, not what gets adopted or whatever. If more are taken in than are bought by Asian restaurants or whatever, I liquidate the surplus. This is how things work. If you don't like it, write to your Congressvarmint. --Tim May Trying to steal the thunder from Arnold, Tim May <timcmay@removethis.got.net> on Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:22:28 -0700 spoke: >> The owners of the shelter are not interested in placing them in homes, they >> are collectors. Animal hoarding is a big problem with these people-they [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >This is how things work. If you don't like it, write to your >Congressvarmint. I thought California law restricted sale of animals?? Since you appear to be in California, are you and the agency you work for knowingly breaking the law, OR, as is more likely, are you just talking out of your a.s? SignatureThe truth is out there, but it's not interesting enough for most people. Actually PETA engages in Euthanasia themselves and there are some interesting investigations into there treatment of animals at one of their so called shelters. It's too bad that an organization that started out was subverted by people wanting to push a whole different agenda then true animal well being. In fact all of the original founders are no longer involved. PETA used to be credible but now it seems they want to force their viewpoint on the rest of the general public. If you eat meat, show off your cat at a cat show, aren't a vegan, or anything they find questionable then you are a bad person. They used to be a good group that cared about animals now they are a bunch of extremists who will do anything to get media attention. There's nothing wrong with trying to get media attention when it comes to animal abuse but PETA has some very questionable tactics when doing so. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > Actually PETA engages in Euthanasia themselves and there are some > interesting investigations into there treatment of animals at one of their [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > wanting to push a whole different agenda then true animal well being. In > fact all of the original founders are no longer involved. > PETA used to be credible but now it seems they want to force their viewpoint > on the rest of the general public. If you eat meat, I.e., act like an omnivorous human, ok... show off your cat at a > cat show, Bring your beloved, beautiful kitty to show off to other cat lovers... >aren't a vegan, A militant diet-freak, or anything they find questionable then you are a > bad person. So yes, they're just a bunch of self-righteous extremist activists. And your name is CAT PROTECTOR. I love animals, and I love my cats, too. They are all over me whenever I sit down. They are spoiled rotten and love me back. I was brought up in an animal-loving family. I once woke up to find a wounded opossum in my bathtub, rescued from the roadside in the middle of the night after being hit by a car. He was taking a drink from a bowl, and looking around at the variety of foods my mom had offered him (they're scavengers, so no real idea I guess). Later that day, he was corralled and brought to the nature center, where he was treated and released. Oh - and they can be nasty, especially when hurt and cornered. They climb well, too. There are other stories like that I could share, like the raccoon in the garage, (thought he was in the trash), the baby birds who fell out of nests, the big old snapping turtle who stopped traffic, (THAT was a bit scary... he was trying to get a piece of me. To move them, you grab them by the tail so they can't reach you hand, and run). But I am none of the things you described, so I, too, must be evil and immoral and unfit to care from my cats and ball python, Louie. Oh, he eats mice - is that cruel? Is that immoral? He's a beautiful, exotic animal whom I've kept in perfect health for 11 years. But yeah - he eats rodents. PETA can kiss my a.s. They used to be a good group that cared about animals now they > are a bunch of extremists who will do anything to get media attention. > There's nothing wrong with trying to get media attention when it comes to > animal abuse but PETA has some very questionable tactics when doing so. Well, at least they used to be a good group. I'm only familiar with the PETA we know now. I love cats and am a responsible cat person. I also rescue cats from time to time and want what's best for them. PETA is one of those groups I wouldn't do business with as they are very questionable. They act as if their way is the best way and of course if you disagree with them you are indeed the enemy. That group is pretty sad if you ask me. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > So yes, they're just a bunch of self-righteous extremist activists. And > your name is CAT PROTECTOR. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Well, at least they used to be a good group. I'm only familiar with the > PETA we know now. Again all PETA information is recieved form concerned citizens and is verified before any action is taken. and once again if your going to bad mouth and organization for animal rights and animal related website is not a good place to do so. >This is PETA we're talking about. They would attack anyone that doesn't >follow their fife and drum. Just look at their video regarding the shelter. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> Thanks so much for reading and pass this link onto anyone who cares about >> animals!!!!! Peta's been known to fund fire-bombing terrorists and other crazy stuff (re: Penn and Teller's Bullshit - Season 2 Episode 14 - "P.E.T.A.", watch it on HBO) I wouldn't be suprized if one of their animal wacktovists staged all of those photos. Even if that isn't the case, Why don't you do something positive and help the shelter get back to code? if you have it shut down then those poor animals will probably end up back on the streets and/or dead. regards, - D. :There is an animal shelter in my town that is really bad-so bad that PETA :has done an expose on them-please visit this site and take action! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] :Thanks so much for reading and pass this link onto anyone who cares about :animals!!!!! I read the entire story, and as an animal lover, I was disgusted and angered, but sadly not shocked to hear it. I wish we could find and locate every facility like this, every puppy mill, every house with 100 cats in it, and save them all. I really wish we could. And I understand PETA's motivation to try to do what it can to help. I just have no respect for PETA. It is a collection of extremist freaks, who love to do "exposes". PETA loves to finger-point, and apparently it loves to flirt with libel lawsuits with stories on its website. I'm sure that the author of this post was sitting in PETA HQ in ... Norfolk, VA somewhere when he or she wrote this, trying to sound like an upset little girl who heard about this story. Here's something for you PETA members to chew on: meat isn't murder. It's food. Humans are omnivores, and always have been. It's in our DNA. Get over it. You will NEVER change that fact, and you will never look anything but ridiculous with your OTHER pissing-in-the-wind, activist/extremist campaigns. There is nothing more loathsome than an extremist activist. Oh, wait, there are terrorists. But what are they, philosophically? Hmm... > There is an animal shelter in my town that is really bad-so bad that PETA > has done an expose on them-please visit this site and take action! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Thanks so much for reading and pass this link onto anyone who cares about > animals!!!!! > Here's something for you PETA members to chew on: meat isn't murder. > It's food. Humans are omnivores, and always have been. It's in our [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > There is nothing more loathsome than an extremist activist. Oh, wait, > there are terrorists. But what are they, philosophically? Hmm... Human animals are not meat eaters. It's not in our DNA. If they were, they would be able to do what every other carnivore that has walked the earth over hundreds of millions of years can do, which is to eat meat raw without becoming sick and dying. Fool. You eat meat because you like how it tastes. Stuffing your face with something you like the taste of is something you have a gluttonous uncontrollable urge to do. Pathetic. Dave > Human animals are not meat eaters. It's not in our DNA. If they were, they > would be able to do what every other carnivore that has walked the earth > over hundreds of millions of years can do, which is to eat meat raw without > becoming sick and dying. > > Fool. We are omnivores, like I said. Omni = all. It IS in our DNA to eat meat. This is scientific fact, fool. Just because we cannot live on meat alone does not make us non-meat-eaters, fool. Early humans all over the planet man ate meat for millions of years because they needed to, fool. > You eat meat because you like how it tastes. Stuffing your face with > something you like the taste of is something you have a gluttonous > uncontrollable urge to do. Pathetic. Bullshit. An uncontrollable urge? I have the urge to eat because I'm a HUMAN BEING and I need to do it to survive. If it were "gluttonous and uncontrollable", I'd be grossly overweight, which I am definitely not, fool. Just where the hell do people like you get off saying sh.t like this, and where the hell do you come from? It is only through the fact natural selection no longer kills most of us that people like you walk the earth. Oh, and I suppose this is some character flaw 99% of the world has, you pompous little ignoramus activist. I'd like to stuff YOUR face full of raw meat until you choke on your own vomit. I have to disagree on this one. DNA has nothing to do with whether or not you are a meat eater. I eat meat and you might be interested to know that some people do eat meat that is cooked rare (pretty close to raw). Meat is cooked because it kills any parasite or bacteria. Safety first. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > Human animals are not meat eaters. It's not in our DNA. If they were, they > would be able to do what every other carnivore that has walked the earth [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Dave > I have to disagree on this one. DNA has nothing to do with whether or not > you are a meat eater. I eat meat and you might be interested to know that > some people do eat meat that is cooked rare (pretty close to raw). Meat is > cooked because it kills any parasite or bacteria. Safety first. If you have to cook it, if it has to be "processed" for you, then you are not a carnivore. Dave That is a load of B.S.! My cats like to eat steak and they too are carnivores. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > If you have to cook it, if it has to be "processed" for you, then you are > not a carnivore. > > Dave I hope you are trying to be funny. Dave > That is a load of B.S.! My cats like to eat steak and they too are > carnivores. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > > > Dave No, I wasn't. I think it is all B.S. what you were saying. People eat meat because it is a part of the diet. Humans eat many things but meat is a mainstay. And cats are carnivores. I am surprised you don't know that. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com >I hope you are trying to be funny. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> > >> > Dave > > I have to disagree on this one. DNA has nothing to do with whether or not > > you are a meat eater. I eat meat and you might be interested to know that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > If you have to cook it, if it has to be "processed" for you, then you are > not a carnivore. I don't "have" to cook it: I have consumed raw flesh with no ill effects. It is true that I usually prefer slightly cooked flesh, especially if the source is of questionable origin. Our trip to Haiti this weekend, for example, to partake of young flesh from the outlands, will likely have the flesh lightly cooked. No telling what these young chilluns were consuming. --Tim May In rec.pets.cats.rescue David G Fisher <davegf@home.com> wrote: >Human animals are not meat eaters. It's not in our DNA. If they were, they >would be able to do what every other carnivore that has walked the earth >over hundreds of millions of years can do, which is to eat meat raw without >becoming sick and dying. Huh? I eat raw meat, and it doesn't bother my system. Raw fish, too. Priscilla > In rec.pets.cats.rescue David G Fisher <davegf@home.com> wrote: > >Human animals are not meat eaters. It's not in our DNA. If they were, they [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Priscilla Really? You can kill a cow, and then immediately bite into it's flesh, muscle, blood, organs, and whatever else your mouth encounters inside that corpse, consume them, and not become ill? You are one amazing animal. You can do something no other human animal can do. Dave (ready and waiting for more emotional, irrational, non-scientific responses from typical human animals who spend much of their life in denial of the laws of nature and science) > > In rec.pets.cats.rescue David G Fisher <davegf@home.com> wrote: > > >Human animals are not meat eaters. It's not in our DNA. If they were, [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > responses from typical human animals who spend much of their life in denial > of the laws of nature and science) There are groups of people who eat meat and organs raw, northern groups such as Eskimos eat the heart of seals as soon as they are hunted, and if desired they will eat the meat raw, guess that's as unprocessed as it gets, but they do not get sick. And some people eat raw tuna as well. What about those that eat Sushi? I think this Dave guy is full of a lot of bunk if he thinks people don't eat raw meat. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com "Trish" <trish_d@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:Qt24d.11122 > There are groups of people who eat meat and organs raw, northern groups > such [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > they > do not get sick. > > > In rec.pets.cats.rescue David G Fisher <davegf@home.com> wrote: > > > >Human animals are not meat eaters. It's not in our DNA. If they were, [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > they will eat the meat raw, guess that's as unprocessed as it gets, but they > do not get sick. There are infinitesimal exceptions to every rule, and citing a relative handful of people who may be able to eat one fraction of an animals body without cleansing (do they cleanse the body part) cooking, or treating it in any way, does not make them carnivores. It's irrational (but definitely not unexpected, unfortunately) for you to try and use them to prove your point. Also, I seriously doubt that *nothing* at all is done beforehand to whatever is being eaten by the small groups you mentioned. You, nor they, can kill a cow (chicken, or pig), and then immediately bite into it's flesh, muscle, blood, organs, and whatever else your mouth encounters inside that corpse, consume them, and not become ill and even dying. Dave Omnivores, for the last time, we are omnivores, Mr. Science Man. Freaking UNDERSTAND THAT PLEASE. God, it's like talking to a brick wall. Another typical activist. He started this whole ridiculous argument because I dissed PETA. So, Dave, why do we have canine teeth? And why did primitive man hunt and fish? Yes, as another poster noted, raw flesh is indeed consumed in great amounts by humankind every day. It was consumed before we learned to make fire. Thinking otherwise is ignorant and false; it's all in the fossil record. Carnivores means you eat ONLY meat. You keep using that term. No, humans cannot eat only meat. Everyone, look at what Mr. Brilliant said to me earlier, an earlier post of mine is first: Here's something for you PETA members to chew on: meat isn't murder. > It's food. Humans are omnivores, and always have been. It's in our > DNA. Get over it. You will NEVER change that fact, and you will never > look anything but ridiculous with your OTHER pissing-in-the-wind, > activist/extremist campaigns. There is nothing more loathsome than an extremist activist. Oh, wait, > there are terrorists. But what are they, philosophically? Hmm... Yeah, the second paragraph IS true, but a stretch, I admit. I was trying to underscore a point to these dunderheads. His response: "Human animals are not meat eaters. It's not in our DNA. If they were, they would be able to do what every other carnivore that has walked the earth over hundreds of millions of years can do, which is to eat meat raw without becoming sick and dying." First, he is stuck on "carnivore" again. It's "omnivore". We are and always have been omnivorous. Jesus Christ, how many times do you need to be told? And we're not meat eaters? Really... "Fool." "You eat meat because you like how it tastes. Stuffing your face with something you like the taste of is something you have a gluttonous uncontrollable urge to do. Pathetic." Now, He lays RIDICULOUS AND UNVERIFIABLE VALUE JUDGMENTS on me. I wonder what other activist type has done that lately. Could it be the other person I pissed off by dissing PETA? NO.... He apparently -sees- me stuffing my face with meat (lol), and furthermore, knows that this is a gluttonous and uncontrollable urge of mine, then calls it pathetic. Well, omniscience (not onmi-science, it means the state of being all-knowing) must be an incredible thing. Once again, this post started the whole ridiculous argument. "Dave" Dave, you are a real piece of work. An omnivorous piece of work. Why are you trying to argue a point with this person? He thinks he is right and no matter how many facts we put forth his way he will not listen. I have heard that people are considered omnivores but some will only eat meat. My main diet consists of it dispite my eating salads, dairy, and other stuff. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > Omnivores, for the last time, we are omnivores, Mr. Science Man. Freaking > UNDERSTAND THAT PLEASE. God, it's like talking to a brick wall. Another [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > > Dave, you are a real piece of work. An omnivorous piece of work. Yeah, I suppose you're right. I just hate the falsely arrogant and self-righteous. No point in continuing this ridiculous discussion. > Why are you trying to argue a point with this person? He thinks he is right > and no matter how many facts we put forth his way he will not listen. I have > heard that people are considered omnivores but some will only eat meat. My > main diet consists of it dispite my eating salads, dairy, and other stuff. | > > > In rec.pets.cats.rescue David G Fisher <davegf@home.com> wrote: .... | There are infinitesimal exceptions to every rule, | Dave ... I don't usually get into these contests but there's a logical fallacy here. There are no exceptions to any rule. If there's an exception, it's not a rule. No exceptions. Although I don't suppose this reply will make much difference. I've seen these fellows maddened by impotence to rage before. "He said I said that when he said what he said." -- David G Fisher > There are infinitesimal exceptions to every rule, and citing a relative Hardly. Look at all the cultures that consume insects, some still raw and wiggling! Get yourself to any wet market in Thailand or southern China and then try to justify your unfounded position. Large swaths of Africa and South America may take issue with your conclusions as well. And even your claim of "processed" being some sort of deal breaker is on a slippery slope. Many venomous animals "process" their prey with venom in order to render the tissue more easily digestible. All birds of prey "process" chunks of flesh first and then regurgitate it and feed it to their babies. Other carnivores are known to kill their prey and wait, letting it "process" in the hot sun, essentially cooking it. So do you now label all these animals as cheaters because a few extra steps occur before the food makes it into their tummies? In article <r5ahhj-6610A4.03362422092004@newssvr12-ext.news.prodigy.com>, r5 > > There are infinitesimal exceptions to every rule, and citing a relative > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > cheaters because a few extra steps occur before the food makes > it into their tummies? And the claim that a carnivore can eat any part of a kill is also inconsistent with reality: animals like wolves routinely eat certain organs first and avoid other organs completely. Muscle tissue they tend to eat always, but those same muscle tissues are also what humans can eat raw. Animals may have better "instincts" about which organs to avoid, while humans may need guidebooks and training on what organs to avoid, but this doesn't mean animals have some special ability to process uncooked meat that we don't have. As for his claim that "steak tartare" is "prepared," this is nonsense. It may have a raw egg in the middle, it may be surrounded by sprigs of parsley and greens, whatever, but it is not cooked hamburger: is is raw hamburger. No recipe calls for it to be cooked in any way. A friend of mine prefers her steaks uncooked. I was manning the grill, and cooked our tri-tip, but she just merrily ate her piece of sirloin completely raw. Likewise, Vikings, Eskimos, Africans, etc., routinely consumed (or still do consume) meat raw. As well as drinking fresh blood. No "processing" is needed. --Tim May > > Here's something for you PETA members to chew on: meat isn't murder. > > It's food. Humans are omnivores, and always have been. It's in our [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > over hundreds of millions of years can do, which is to eat meat raw without > becoming sick and dying. Many of us are easily able to eat "steak tartare" (raw beef) and sashimi (raw fish, a meat by reasonable definition) without becoming sick. Sure, some meats have parasites, partly a function of our filthy times (with people sh.tting into the places where meat is found). And we are less tolerant than our ancestors of eating the occasional parasite and dying, so we take more stringent steps than our ancestors tended to do. But given clean meat, whether beef or venison or chicken or fowl or pork or fish or crustacean, humans can certainly process that meat and generally survive quite well. If you claim humans before fire didn't eat meat, you are being more than silly, you are being disingenuous. --Tim May > > > Here's something for you PETA members to chew on: meat isn't murder. > > > It's food. Humans are omnivores, and always have been. It's in our [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Many of us are easily able to eat "steak tartare" (raw beef) Lol. There are no "steak tartar" animals running around out in the woods. Even steak tartar is meat that has been through some type of human *process" before it ends up in front of you. For Tim, 67RMod, and Cat Protector, I will now try to explain things to you as simply as possible so you can understand. Human animals are not omnivores or carnivores. If they were, then they would be able to eat exactly they way millions of different omnivores and carnivores can eat, and have been eating, for *hundreds of millions of years*. Can you follow around a wolf, fox, lion, or a turkey vulture and eat exactly what, and in the same way, they do? No, you can't. If you stuck your face in an animal carcass and ate what they do, you'd become ill and possibly die. If you ate skin, muscle, blood, and organs from a carcass that had been decomposing for days in the woods or on the side of the road, you would become ill and even die. The wolf, lion and the turkey vulture will thrive. Your health would be in constant danger. Your life expectancy would drop. Our bodies are not able to handle this type of diet without doing things like cooking, cleaning, or *processing* the meat in some way. To force ourselves to survive on the wolf, lion, fox or turkey vulture diet would mean physical self destruction, which is something that humans seem to love to engage in btw. Here in America for example, we are the fattest humans on earth, and getting fatter every day. In addition to engaging in and embracing self destruction, they also engage in denial, revel in ignorance, blindly follow tradition, self indulge, and become slaves to their vices. These are all things humans are fond of because they then can, among other things, continue to shove tasty flesh into their faces, and ignore the laws of nature. Religion often leads, or provides excuses, for humans to behave in this manner by insisting without any proof whatsoever that humans are not animals, and are *above* all other creatures. Religion provides an easy excuse to behave like a dick, basically. Basic insecurity is another big reason humans act in these ways. I suspect each of the three of you are influenced by one or even both of these factors. As I said in another post, there are infinitesimal exceptions to every rule, but to rely on them as you've done (like mentioning steak tartar) to prove your points is ridiculous. For example, you could eat small amounts of human sh.t and live (I'm sure there are some freaks who do, and there are those who love them), but you wouldn't thrive, and therefor it would be stupid to claim humans have evolved into *sh.t eaters*. They speak a lot of sh.t, but their bodies aren't built to eat it. Unfortunately the three of you (and a few others) have given the type of ridiculous replies I expected, so I'm bored with you now and probably won't bother responding to any more of your nonsense. Have a nice day. Dave When an argument degrades to the point it becomes purely semantic, as this one has, just look in an authoritative dictionary for clarity. I looked in several; you're wrong. Your value judgments are dismissed as rhetorical bluster. Not sure where you're coming from... Mankind is "omnivorous", ie: our digestive systems can handle both animal and vegetable foodstuffs. We aren't extreme herbivores... we don't have 4 stomachs like cows do. Only a few of our teeth are built for grinding. We aren't extreme carnivores either in the grand scheme of things... our "ripping fangs" are ridiculously small, and I seriously doubt my digestive system would ever be up to the crocodile habit of letting the food rot for awhile before consuming (of course neither would my cats'). But even though you might prefer a Caesar salad, you could still grab a wild head of lettuce or spinach, dig up a carrot or potato, and stuff it in your mouth raw... probably a couple days of misery waiting for your digestive system to catch up to the new regime, but I know plenty of people that subsist on raw veggies and fruits. Same with meat; the trout almandine is fine, but personally I like a strip of damn near raw cow the best. Any "processing" I put into it is simply for (acquired)taste, not a biological necessity. There are peoples for whom raw animal meat is a staple (Eskimo for instance). Don't get me wrong, I'm assuming wild not domesticate game; mankind's domesticated animals are not in very good shape compared to the feral variety; eating a chicken raw out of the coop probably would make you ill, as opposed to wild game turkey for instance. Maybe you should explain what you mean by "carnivore", since it simply means "meat eater", not "hunter god". pat and of course while I'm typing this, the damn cat (obligate carnivore) is hoovering up a bunch of jalapeno potato chips, just to be contrary > Unfortunately the three of you (and a few others) have given the type of > ridiculous replies I expected, so I'm bored with you now and probably won't > bother responding to any more of your nonsense. Oh, you're a troll then, bugger off like a good fellow, eh. > Not sure where you're coming from... > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Oh, you're a troll then, bugger off like a good fellow, eh. :) Nicely said! >> Here's something for you PETA members to chew on: meat isn't murder. >> It's food. Humans are omnivores, and always have been. It's in our [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Dave Humans also naturally can't communicate over thousands of miles, and yet there you sit, hypocritically typing away on your computer on the un-natural Usenet. eq I'm sorry, i dont consider myself an extremist freak. i have a normal life outside my work for PETA. i have a job i go to school and i have meat eating friends. don't judge an entire organization based on personal prejudice. PPETA is not a "finger pointing" organization. I am sick an tired of being labeld a "extremist freak" because i align myseldf with an organization that i feel represents and defends the rights of those who cannot defend themselves. and as for your "meat is not murder - it's food " comment. i have lived without meat for almost 17 years. i'm pretty sure meat is not your only option. I dare you to go vegetarian for a month- it's probably healthier for you than meat. but to everyone their own opinions i guess. but please dont judge people based on what you think they stand for. ps: its pretty sad when a 17 year old has the maturity to stand up for what she believes in even though most of the world thinks she's wrong. >I read the entire story, and as an animal lover, I was disgusted and >angered, but sadly not shocked to hear it. I wish we could find and [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> Thanks so much for reading and pass this link onto anyone who cares about >> animals!!!!! Yep, as I predicted, she was trying to pass herself off as just a concered citizen. Her type is ever so predictable, the bunch of insane, feet-stamping freaks that they are. That, and their politics, is why damned few people actually them seriously. She wasn't even clever enough to hide the fact she is an activist herself (your email address was at the same domain as your website). When I think of PETA, I also think of a newspaper story a girl in my home town... she had "Meat is Murder" painted on her leather jacket, was ticketed for putting "EATING ANIMALS" stickers on "STOP" signs (in broad daylight), and was loudly defending her "first amendment right", which is to vandalize, apparently... ;) > There is an animal shelter in my town that is really bad-so bad that PETA > has done an expose on them-please visit this site and take action! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Thanks so much for reading and pass this link onto anyone who cares about > animals!!!!! > Yep, as I predicted, she was trying to pass herself off as just a concered > citizen. Her type is ever so predictable, the bunch of insane, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > daylight), and was loudly defending her "first amendment right", which is > to vandalize, apparently... ;) Somone did that to a stop sign near where I live once, so I painted a "DON'T" above it, thereby making the sign read DON'T STOP EATING ANIMALS >> There is an animal shelter in my town that is really bad-so bad that PETA >> has done an expose on them-please visit this site and take action! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> Thanks so much for reading and pass this link onto anyone who cares about >> animals!!!!! >>When I think of PETA, I also think of a newspaper story a girl in my home >>town... she had "Meat is Murder" painted on her leather jacket, was [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Somone did that to a stop sign near where I live once, so I painted a > "DON'T" above it, thereby making the sign read DON'T STOP EATING ANIMALS LOL I like that. Someone at PETA didn't think hard enough about a possible retort to their clever little stickers. The "meat is murder" painted on the leather jacket was just hysterical. It shows what type of simplistic, idiotic mentality is behind these types of actions. If PETA really got its way, the world economy would go into a death spiral from which it would never recover. Oh, but things like that are just not important, I guess. Not being able to eat at all is better than eating animals. Freaking IDIOTS When faced with "meat is murder" I have to laugh at that one. When someone objects to my eating meat I just tell them that as true cat person I must eat it as my cats are carnivores. My cats wouldn't want me to eat a meal that is purely vegetables. I guess PETA would call a cat a murderer simply because they eat meat. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > LOL I like that. Someone at PETA didn't think hard enough about a > possible retort to their clever little stickers. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Freaking IDIOTS Yes, I suppose that means all omnivorous and carnivorous creatures that roam the earth are murderers. > When faced with "meat is murder" I have to laugh at that one. When someone > objects to my eating meat I just tell them that as true cat person I must > eat it as my cats are carnivores. My cats wouldn't want me to eat a meal > that is purely vegetables. I guess PETA would call a cat a murderer simply > because they eat meat. > Yep, as I predicted, she was trying to pass herself off as just a > concered citizen. Her type is ever so predictable, the bunch of insane, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > She wasn't even clever enough to hide the fact she is an activist > herself (your email address was at the same domain as your website). Put down your crystal ball, sport. You don't know anything about me. The website I wrote about is not mine. The domain is our local cable company. Anyone who has cable internet has that domain in Henderson County. There are many people here who are concerned about these animals. As soon as you get off your soapbox. You haven't convinced me of anything. Your message indicates a lame attempt to come across as someone you're not, or not an activist, at the least. I wonder why that could be? Do you see anyone else waiving the PETA flag in these responses? The reason you don't is that even animal lovers know PETA as its ugly, ridiculous self. I read your posts on one of those websites, and I quote: ------------------------------- Email: kim.pheffer@gmail.com Date: Monday September 13, 2004 15:16:04 GMT Comments: While my heart goes out to the animals now being temporarily housed at the prison due to the flood, I still am greatly concerned about their welfare. I visited the prison on Thursday 9/9 and was shocked at the poor condition (not related to flood trauma) that these animals were in. Do they ever get vet care? Email: kainogenesis2x1@yahoo.com Date: Monday September 13, 2004 15:46:25 GMT Comments: Ms. Pfeffer: Who are you accusing of neglect now? The state is caring for them. There is an entire vet force made up of college animal medicine majors providing care, paid for by FEMA and the state (they're kind of hard to miss, too--were you actually there?). Are you accusing THEM of neglect--or are you simply still on the "repeat what you hear" wagon? Email: kim.pheffer@gmail.com Date: Monday September 13, 2004 17:46:03 GMT Comments: Please see my response to the above accusations at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hendersoncountyanimalwelfare/ ------------------------------------------- First of all, they were not "accusations". Second of all, you didn't answer the poster's question, "were you actually there?" Based on the facts she provided, it seems you were not. You just give a URL to a discussion group the other person is supposed to pick through to find some sort of response. If the rest of you don't believe me, look for yourself: http://home.mchsi.com/wsb-cgi-bin/ssi.cgi?PWPTool=GBView&State=True&wsbID=964601 &GroupID=937201&Owner=endanimalsuffering I will discredit you, even though you're bent on discrediting yourself. You are a sad, lying little person on a soapbox, and that is all... >>Yep, as I predicted, she was trying to pass herself off as just a >>concered citizen. Her type is ever so predictable, the bunch of insane, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Anyone who has cable internet has that domain in Henderson County. There > are many people here who are concerned about these animals. Read this: http://www.hendersonvillenews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040920/NEWS/40920 0320/1042/NEWS01 Now tell me there isn't something to this whole thing. So you and others don't like PETA-that's fine. It doesn't negate the fact that this story is valid and that animals are dying and being abused by crazed animal hoarders. The Yahoo group I directed readers to DID have my response on it but the group owner kicked both me and the other person off for the negativity and our responses were deleted. Everything I've written is true; I was at the temporary shelter and spoke with Dr. Moncure that day in the cat room. She is the doctor who filed charges against them. All I'm trying to do is raise awareness of such an awful place. If I'd done my own website and posted it you'd still probably be negative. I'd forgotten how Usenet is full of jerks like you who live to argue and bicker. I'll not be feeding you anymore-my mistake. > As soon as you get off your soapbox. You haven't convinced me of > anything. Your message indicates a lame attempt to come across as [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > If the rest of you don't believe me, look for yourself: http://home.mchsi.com/wsb-cgi-bin/ssi.cgi?PWPTool=GBView&State=True&wsbID=964601 &GroupID=937201&Owner=endanimalsuffering > I will discredit you, even though you're bent on discrediting yourself. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Anyone who has cable internet has that domain in Henderson County. There > > are many people here who are concerned about these animals. You obviously are a member of PETA. Whether or not this shelter is terrible is not the issue. You seem to wave the PETA flag in almost every post and in my openion they are a very questionable organization these days. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > Read this: > http://www.hendersonvillenews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040920/NEWS/40920 0320/1042/NEWS01 [quoted text clipped - 101 lines] > There >> > are many people here who are concerned about these animals. > Everything I've written is true; I was at the temporary shelter and spoke > with Dr. Moncure that day in the cat room. She is the doctor who filed > charges against them. Do you know the home address of this person Moncure? Do you know what time she leaves work? --Tim May, Chief Enforcement Officer, People for Eliminating Troublesome Advocates (PETA, www.peta.to) > Read this: > http://www.hendersonvillenews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040920/NEWS/40920 0320/1042/NEWS01 > > Now tell me there isn't something to this whole thing. There most definitely is. And as I first said, as an animal lover myself, I am saddened by it and wish we COULD save them all. So you and others > don't like PETA-that's fine. I'm so glad it's ok with you that we don't. It doesn't negate the fact that this story is > valid and that animals are dying and being abused by crazed animal hoarders. No, now there, you just lost credibility again. That's a value judgment. Animals are dying. We have seen that. Are they being abused? Not verifiably so, but maybe. They are presumably, I say again -presumably- neglected, which is what made me sad and angry about this story. It goes without saying many of the animals to end up at places like this are in rough shape to begin with. It also goes without saying the press manipulates news stories to make money, because as virtuous and objective as would all like to believe they are, they are in a business to make money, period. > The Yahoo group I directed readers to DID have my response on it but the > group owner kicked both me and the other person off for the negativity and > our responses were deleted. This cannot be verified. And let me get this straight - the owner -selectively- pulled responses off, after you were booted for "the negativity"? Sounds doubtful to me. So my seeing half the story was because of this? For cost and trouble reasons alone, I cannot take that claim seriously. And it's just too convenient a response. Your claim is that there were responses deleted between these three times, that would explain it to me: 1. Your post: Monday September 13, 2004 15:16:04 GMT 2. Responder's post: Monday September 13, 2004 15:46:25 GMT 3. Your non-reply: Monday September 13, 2004 17:46:03 GMT I just don't believe you. > Everything I've written is true; I was at the temporary shelter and spoke > with Dr. Moncure that day in the cat room. She is the doctor who filed > charges against them. Once again, you are aligned with PETA, an extremist activist group. You and everything you say are automatically suspect to most people. And if you figure so greatly into this, why was there no mention of you in the press? Don't you want to further your cause? If everything you said was true, and your accounts were completely accurate, as an activist, I would have to think you'd be DYING to get a few words in with the press. If not, you are not a very good activist. > All I'm trying to do is raise awareness of such an awful place. That is the only reason I am not completely ripping you a new one. I hate to hear about this type of suffering. I'm just try to expose your lies, and discredit you and PETA. You seem to be doing a fair job of that yourself, so I don't need try very hard. If I'd done > my own website and posted it you'd still probably be negative. I'd > forgotten how Usenet is full of jerks like you who live to argue and bicker. That is a categorical non-reply that ducks the issue completely, and puts a "poor misunderstood me" spin on it to boot. I don't "live to argue and bicker", I just smelled b.s. from the get-go on this from you, and sure enough, there was a big old stanky load of it. Mentioning PETA didn't help, either. > I'll not be feeding you anymore-my mistake. By all means, don't. You've given me enough to use already, and I am growing tired of this. okay 1 sec. i notice a very disturbing recurring message through all your posts. i htink you hate people who have the guts to stand up against what they think is wrong. wow... the human race is getting less interested in whats right and more interested in discrediting people who rise against what they know is cruel. who's the fascist now? >> Read this: >> http://www.hendersonvillenews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040920/NEWS/40920 0320/1042/NEWS01 [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] >By all means, don't. You've given me enough to use already, and I am >growing tired of this. |
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