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Cat Forum / General Topics / July 2004Litter in Garage
We recently discovered a litter of kittens in our garage under a big pile of cardboard boxes. One of our own cats had had a litter not long before, oddly enough. We just didn't get her fixed in time. We figured that the visiting cat had five kittens in her litter, same as ours, although we never saw more than two at a time. Anyway, we hadn't seen them for a couple of weeks, and we weren't sure what had happened to them. We had seen a racoon going in and out of the garage (in fact at one point the racoon came into our kitchen). However, today my daughter and I discovered a dead kitten just outside the garage. It wasn't marked in any way. We went inside, and I very quickly found another kitten that appeared to be very weak and obviously starving. I moved all the boxes, but couldn't find any more kittens. We have brought the surviving kitten indoors and fed him milk with a syringe. Tomorrow I'm going to go to Petsmart to look for something better to give him. I will also try moving more stuff in case there are still more kittens. We have also tried feeding him dried food softened with milk, but he is obviously not weaned and doesn't know what to do with it. We have named him Tiny. My son says that he has seen the mother cat previously, and that she has a collar. We are speculating that her owners may have shut her indoors because she was away so long, not knowing that she had kittens who would starve as a result. sad very very sad,,, but that's nature. Hope that Tiny survives. > sad very very sad,,, but that's nature. > Hope that Tiny survives. Sadly, when I woke up this morning Tiny was dead. He was still warm. At least we tried. At this point I imagine that if we find any of the others they will have already died of starvation. On top of that, we found one of our cats dead this morning, apparently hit by a car. His name was Charcoal. We have had him and one of his sisters, Pinky, since they were kittens, and she now has a litter of five kittens, so she has lost a brother and they have lost an uncle. He used to play with his nieces and nephews, and he loved having his tummy rubbed. He didn't come in to have his dinner last night, but he hadn't the night before either, and he had been around all day in between. This is the hardest part of having cats. > > sad very very sad,,, but that's nature. > > Hope that Tiny survives. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > This is the hardest part of having cats. Keep your cats indoors and they won't be hit by cars or get pregnant, even if they're not spayed, which they should be. The mama cat *and* the kittens are old enough to be spayed 8 weeks after birth, so don't have another "oops" litter on the heels of this one. She can get pregnant while she is still nursing, BTW, and the kittens can get pregnant at 5 months. Even if you rehome the kittens, make sure they are spay/neutered before they leave your care or otherwise the new owner may let it go too long and end up in your situation. One cat can become 13 in just one year's time if not fixed, and that is figuring on only 2 of the offspring surviving. If you need to find a low cost spay neuter program to help you get this done, then contact www.spayusa.org/ and they will find a vet in your area who can help you out. > On top of that, we found one of our cats dead this morning, apparently > hit by a car. His name was Charcoal. We have had him and one of his [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > This is the hardest part of having cats. No, the hardest part of having cats is ignorant owners who don't have them neutered and then let them outside to roam and 1. get pregnant and 2. get hit by cars. Keep them inside and have them fixed. Now! LT >> sad very very sad,,, but that's nature. >> Hope that Tiny survives. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > This is the hardest part of having cats. Today I found two more of the stray litter of kittens. One was long since dead in front of our front door, which is a door that we never use, so no- one had been around that area. The other was hidden in a bush right next to that, and ran through an air vent that leads under our house. That one at least looked very healthy, but it is hard to tell. I had been assuming that the others starved, but now I am beginning to wonder if they might have died of something that could be transmitted to our cats. Regarding some of the other comments in this thread, I won't reply to them directly, but just wish to note that where I originally come from it is considered an act of cruelty to keep cats indoors. Usenet is worldwide, and reflects a variety of different beliefs. >>>sad very very sad,,, but that's nature. >>>Hope that Tiny survives. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > considered an act of cruelty to keep cats indoors. Usenet is worldwide, and > reflects a variety of different beliefs. Our first cat, a lost silver/black charcoal tabby, apparently was hit by a car. He's been missing since April of 2003 and never returned. I've seen three dead cats lying in the middle or by the side of several nearby roads just this past week. Both roads are only one half mile from my home and are death traps for animals crossing them. This past spring I will never forget the sight of the dead cow cat lying by the curb on a peaceful, quiet street. >>>>sad very very sad,,, but that's nature. >>>>Hope that Tiny survives. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > spring I will never forget the sight of the dead cow cat lying by the > curb on a peaceful, quiet street. Indeed. Animals in general are not very good at crossing the road. We live by the side of a through road, albeit we have a fair amount of frontage and almost endless space in all other directions. We have always found that cats are at least well capable of learning that they should stay away from the road when they can hear cars. The cat we lost that way was a male that was due to be fixed. An unfixed tom cat will cross the road more frequently than other cats, which is bad for the odds. Of course I wish we had got around to taking him to the vet, but we hadn't, and that's that. > Indeed. Animals in general are not very good at crossing the road. We live > by the side of a through road, albeit we have a fair amount of frontage and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > for the odds. Of course I wish we had got around to taking him to the vet, > but we hadn't, and that's that. Keeping animals indoors ensures they won't be hit by cars... LT -- > Indeed. Animals in general are not very good at crossing the road. We live > by the side of a through road, albeit we have a fair amount of frontage and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > for the odds. Of course I wish we had got around to taking him to the vet, > but we hadn't, and that's that. This is exactly what happened to our cat. We didn't get him fixed before he wandered off and never returned. I am positive that he was struck by a car, because he was only missing for about a day in February before being missing for good in April. He would have returned home, which he did every day. :( I feel so sorry for you and I went through a mourning with our missing cat because I still feel some guilt about what happened and because we missed him so much. All cats, as all living things, are unique and can never be replaced by others. >> Indeed. Animals in general are not very good at crossing the road. We >> live by the side of a through road, albeit we have a fair amount of [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > cats, as all living things, are unique and can never be replaced by > others. I sympathise with you not knowing where he had gone. It can be a big worry. > I sympathise with you not knowing where he had gone. It can be a big worry. Don't let them out and you will know where they are. LT | Indeed. Animals in general are not very good at crossing the road. We live | by the side of a through road, albeit we have a fair amount of frontage and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] | for the odds. Of course I wish we had got around to taking him to the vet, | but we hadn't, and that's that. I *did* get Tom fixed in time, and still he was killed at nighttimes when he was 14 months old :-( It's a risk we take having cats. Since then I cannot lose my heart to a cat as I did before - too much afraid to get hurt. The other day a man came by, looking for his cat that's missing since 2 weeks. I think we just cannot have the pros without the cons, but keeping cats strictly indoors is an option, especially if they know nothing else and are trained early. Carola I took in 2 strays about 5 months apart. Both are outside cats, they call in to eat and sleep a few hours a day, but at night there is just no keeping them in. I have a fair sized garden about 2 UK foot ball pitches with 10/15 trees (its shared) and they seem happy there. I have tried keeping them in but they Raptor me out. If the cat door is open they will come and go quite happy, they will even stay in for a few hours, but as soon as they hear me lock the cat door they start meowing to get out. > I took in 2 strays about 5 months apart. Both are outside cats, they > call in to eat and sleep a few hours a day, but at night there is just [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > hours, but as soon as they hear me lock the cat door they start meowing > to get out. The very first cat that we had, we got from the Cats' Protection League in the UK, and we later brought her to the US with us. The CPL insisted that only people who would let their cats outside were allowed to adopt, and made it very clear that they considered it cruelty to keep a cat indoors all the time. At the time we had a ground floor flat (condo in American), and the CPL were skeptical about that, but still allowed us to adopt a cat. In fact, it was not practical for the cat to use the entrance (too many doors), but letting it in and out of a ground floor window worked out very well. I spoke just recently with someone here in the US who had just adopted a cat and he had been told that keeping it inside at all times was a condition of adoption. I am not quite sure which group he got it from, but the contrast between the attitudes of the organisations in the two countries is laughable, as they are 180 degrees out of step on this point. The litter of kittens who were born in this house are always very keen to go outside, so I am naturally skeptical about the idea of cats being brought up to always stay in, and yet it evidently can be done, as evidenced by others. Training cats to stay within sight of the house and away from the road is not easy either, but we have done it many times, although inevitably they do sometimes roam anyway. We invariably start by walking them on a lead, and progress from there. Generally a cat will determine an area that it regards as it's territory, and stay within it 90% of the time once it's established. Toms will roam more, sometimes even if they are fixed. Our cats' territory seems to coincide pretty much with our property, even though there are no fences (that is none on the property line - there is a fence between the front garden and the road). Our main worry is the road in front of our house, but they mostly stay out of it, and they run away from it when a car comes. I think that cats get a tremendous amount of pleasure from spending time outside as well as inside. I also know from experience that most of them live to old age without being hit by cars, although they are far more at risk of that than we are. Goodness it sounds so cruel. To keep a cat inside for its whole life. It would be like a life sentence, in a closed jail, for committing no crime... How sad the USA cats must be.. How could we educate them into stopping this cruelty? | Generally a cat will determine an area that it regards as it's territory, | and stay within it 90% of the time once it's established. Toms will roam [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] | live to old age without being hit by cars, although they are far more at | risk of that than we are. It certainly depends on the area. Here in Switzerland we have a lot of small and big woods. The foresters or hunters are allowed to shoot a cat that is away 300 metres from houses. (That would be about 1/5 mile). They don't like the cats hunting rabbits. But I don't think this is a fair distance, would outdoor cats not move further? Well, I'm lucky in this respect; the road is my concern. Some cats just seem to learn to watch out for traffic and some don't. The two cats we have at the moment were with their mom for at least 4-5 months and seem to do well (no *really* busy roads here though). It could be that their mom taught them how to deal with traffic. Carola >| Generally a cat will determine an area that it regards as it's >| territory, and stay within it 90% of the time once it's established. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Carola I think that the distance allowed in Swiss law is too small, as most cats have more territory than that, although this is reduced if other cats live close by. One of our cats attacked a baby rabbit the other day. Their are indeed some places in the US where cats are not allowed outside by law, but luckily that is not the case here. Not everyone in the US keeps their cats inside, but you will find some people on here agressively pushing that point of view. > I think that the distance allowed in Swiss law is too small, as most cats > have more territory than that, although this is reduced if other cats live [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > their cats inside, but you will find some people on here agressively > pushing that point of view. Some U.S. animal shelters will make you sign a contract that states you will never let the cat outside. If you decide that you can no longer keep the cat, you must return it to the animal shelter. They will not allow you to sell or give the cat to someone else. This being said, I have kept our three cats inside the house and basement for over a year. We are also caring for an outside stray, a tuxedo cat, that looks a lot like a cat whose pictures were posted in a gallery of beautiful pictures by a cat owner from Skomrak, Norway. The link to these pictures is in one of the posts from this newsgroup. One of our indoor cats looks a lot like the Skomrak owner's other cat, but ours is more gray/brown tabby with just a little bit of white fur on its face. > Their are indeed some places in the US where cats are not allowed outside > by law, but luckily that is not the case here. Not everyone in the US keeps > their cats inside, but you will find some people on here agressively > pushing that point of view. It's called Leash Laws and it's aimed at dogs roaming, too. We have traffic right out side the yrad. People poison cats and dogs. And the coyotes eat them (and dogs) LT [snip] > The very first cat that we had, we got from the Cats' Protection League in > the UK, and we later brought her to the US with us. The CPL insisted that > only people who would let their cats outside were allowed to adopt, and > made it very clear that they considered it cruelty to keep a cat indoors > all the time. I'd go along with that, but as a CP volunteer I can tell you that there are occasions when Cats Protection (the League part of the name was dropped some time ago) will specify that a cat be kept indoors, mainly cases where the cat is infected with the Feline Immunodeficiency Virus (FIV) which I'm sure you will know is the feline equivalent of the human HIV virus. If an FIV+ cat gets into a fight with another cat the infection could be passed on through a scratch or bite etc. so the advice with these cats is to keep them indoors. > At the time we had a ground floor flat (condo in American), and the CPL > were skeptical about that, but still allowed us to adopt a cat. In fact, it [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the contrast between the attitudes of the organisations in the two > countries is laughable, as they are 180 degrees out of step on this point. The Americans allow the deplorable practice of declawing as well, but that's the subject of another debate which I won't get into here. > The litter of kittens who were born in this house are always very keen to > go outside, so I am naturally skeptical about the idea of cats being > brought up to always stay in, and yet it evidently can be done, as > evidenced by others. Imagine being kept under house arrest and never being allowed outside. I know I wouldn't like it much. > Training cats to stay within sight of the house and away from the road is > not easy either, but we have done it many times, although inevitably they [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > garden and the road). Our main worry is the road in front of our house, but > they mostly stay out of it, and they run away from it when a car comes. I'll go along with that. I am fortunate in that I live in a quiet cul-de-sac with little traffic, so it's unlikely that my cat would be hurt by a car. I never let her out through the front door, only the back and although she could theoretically climb over the gate to the front of the house, I've never seen her do it. > I think that cats get a tremendous amount of pleasure from spending time > outside as well as inside. I also know from experience that most of them > live to old age without being hit by cars, although they are far more at > risk of that than we are. My cat doesn't spend a great deal of time outside, maybe 3 or 4 hours a day, but she does expect to be allowed out when she wants to go, and complains vociferously if denied ;-) I know that if I were forced to live in a location where I couldn't let a cat out, I wouldn't have one. Ivor >> I *did* get Tom fixed in time, and still he was killed at nighttimes when he > was 14 months old :-( [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Carola I am so sorry to read about your cat and what you've written is true as it helps to ease my guilt a bit. Just this past spring, I saw a colorful white and black cat that was struck by a car and was lying on the curb. This cat was hit on a very quiet neighborhood street with little traffic. It's so sad to see these pets or stray/feral cats struck by cars. :( If you let your cat outdoors, it's a risk that you take. Since our first cat disappeared, it's difficult for me to take that risk again. Sometimes I'll carry each cat outside and let them munch on some grass, but you have to be ever so watchful. I'm thinking about buying a harness and leash for them. |
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