Cat Forum / General Topics / June 2004
Again: Cat Needs to Calm Down A Little
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Larry R Harrison Jr - 06 Jun 2004 17:24 GMT Our cat is now 3 months older, yet on occasion she still needs to be calmed down. I'm writing about effective deterrants.
Like today, I had an umbrella--a large one that was not "out" but "in"(that is, folded up not in use)--standing up propped near the door and she couldn't resist popping at it until it fell on the floor. I said "NO!" and put it back up. Next thing you know--again, she's knocking it down again.
Furious, I sprayed her with the water gun and put her in the bathroom. She resisted--she knows that when she's being sent to the bathroom it's for doing something wrong and hates it and she's usually in there for 15-30 minutes--but despite her protest and her cries for freedom she still remains in there.
Is this kind of "time-out" the normal thing to do for disobedience? I know she is a kitten, but I swear--she does need to calm down a little bit. I think it's outrageous how wild and reckless she can be. My wife--who has had kittens before--swears this is about the wildest cat she's ever seen of any age.
Yes, I never post about anything but this, but I can guarantee you there is much love being given to this cat--much cuddle time in the rocking chair and 1st thing in the morning. She's definitely being given love, but the "wild" moments are a point of contention.
Tips?
LRH
Wendy - 06 Jun 2004 18:06 GMT > Our cat is now 3 months older, yet on occasion she still needs to be calmed > down. I'm writing about effective deterrants. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > LRH Kittens get wild. That's just the way they are. No sense getting angry about it. If you don't want the kitten to get into something put it away. The concept is the same as babyproofing for small children. She will be less of an itch as she gets older. At 4 mo. she's still a baby.
I never found punishing a cat to be particularly fruitful. When I gave Boots a time out it was to provide a less stimulating environment when he got too wound up.
W
Larry R Harrison Jr - 06 Jun 2004 22:47 GMT >When I gave Boots > a time out it was to provide a less stimulating environment when he got too > wound up. That's sort of the idea, too. Put her in a bathroom where there's nothing to play with, to let her energy out in a non-annoying environment.
When she's crying out to be freed, it's like--no, can't do that--you need to calm down first. (She doesn't always cry out, she did today.)
They say to babyproof. I guess I'm the paradoxial cat owner, as I'm bound and determined to have things as such that we aren't doing what many others do--that is, sort of acknowledge that "the cat owns us, we don't own it." Not in my house furball.
When she's not like that, all's cool. We certainly have no problem, say, with her playing with loose pennies or 2-liter caps on the floor. No problem. It's more like--not so much calm down 100%, but like--man, do you have to get into EVERY-THING! Not accepable.
> W MIKE - 06 Jun 2004 23:20 GMT Get a large can, put in a handful of marbles or pennies. Whenever you say NO, shake the can vigorously. Cats hate the sound and if they associate it with NO, after a while you won't need the can - just say NO.
-MIKE
~*Connie*~ - 08 Jun 2004 17:41 GMT , but like--man, do you
> have to get into EVERY-THING! yes. they do.
Larry R Harrison Jr - 09 Jun 2004 21:06 GMT > , but like--man, do you > > have to get into EVERY-THING! > > yes. they do. No, they don't. Maybe she THINKS she needs to, or it's "her nature," but she doesn't HAVE TO get into everything.
That all said, things have been better the last 3 days or so. She hasn't become boring or etc, but she is calmer. She hasn't gotten into as much stuff; in fact, the same umbrella remains in the same spot I insisted on keeping it and remains upright. Either she "learned" or just got bored with it. Either way, the undesirable behavior is gone so I'm satisfied regardless of why.
And of course upon second thought I see how she's either improved over earlier or in fact never given a problem at all. Kind of brings things back into focus better.
She used to meow insistently right at our bedroom door (closed) most of the night wanting attention at unGodly hours. Physical barriers to confine her to the other part of the home--and later, a vacuum cleaner planted right at the door with a remote switch to activate it when need be--fixed that. No problems since, yet if we open the door welcoming her in she doesn't hesitate to do so and cuddle right up to us.
Also, we switched from a "wide-open" litterbox to one with a cover and a hole to crawl in--and she immediately took right to it. She's happy, and we are because there's far less litter granules all over the kitchen than before.
Also, she has always liked every kind of hard food we've given her--even when we have to give her water-softened food in the 1st week or two when she was given to us way too young (at like 2 weeks of age)--and she doesn't nag us at the table which is a bigger no-no than almost anything. Never had a problem.
So, all in all, a little rowdiness aside which can get annoying, it's been great otherwise.
LRH
Victor Martinez - 06 Jun 2004 22:42 GMT > Furious, I sprayed her with the water gun and put her in the bathroom. She Why would you be furious at such a little thing?
> Is this kind of "time-out" the normal thing to do for disobedience? I know No. It will probably only make your cat fear you. The key to training a kitten is persistence. Ours understand verbal commands, sometimes all it takes is a look to let them know they're doing something they're not supposed to.
> she is a kitten, but I swear--she does need to calm down a little bit. I > think it's outrageous how wild and reckless she can be. My wife--who has had > kittens before--swears this is about the wildest cat she's ever seen of any > age. That's normal for kittens. They are wild.
> 1st thing in the morning. She's definitely being given love, but the "wild" > moments are a point of contention. Get another kitten. They will keep each other occupied and out of trouble.
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Sunflower - 07 Jun 2004 06:55 GMT I think you need to reasses owning a cat. You don't show the temperament for it, and you've just committed to it for at least 15 years. This doesn't bode well for the future of your pet. Rehoming it now while it's still a cute kitten will be a lot easier than it will in 9 months time when you decide you've had enough.
Getting angry at cat behavior only bothers *you*. It doesn't bother the cat. And it certainly won't cause a cat to stop acting like a cat. If you are a cat person, cat behavior is amusing and entertaining. You're obviously a dog person, because you think you can control a pet's actions totally. Nope. Not with a cat you can't. Not even with a dog, really, unless you put in hours of training. Sounds like the pet you really want is a goldfish.
Larry R Harrison Jr - 07 Jun 2004 19:44 GMT you think you can control a pet's actions
> totally. Nope. Not with a cat you can't. Like hell I can't. I could leave her in the bathroom INDEFINITELY, that WOULD control her 100%.
Not that I would ever do that, of course, just saying--I AM capable of ultimate control. As for owning a dog--frankly, their disposition probably does suit me better. But they're nasty and smelly, even more destructive if you get one that wants to chew, and most of all--that barking. I can't STAND that noise. Irritates me 150 times more than a cat being too "wild" ever could.
If there were an animal with the quietness, cleanliness and non-destructiveness of a cat combined with the desire to obey of a dog, you'd have the perfect pet.
Here in the imperfect world, what one person said--distracting the cat with something else--is not a bad idea. I've done that at times. Heck this morning she was playing with a loose sheet of paper in the kitchen. Cool! Heck, that's cute and adorable. At times I have searched out a ball of yarn and thrown it around for her pleasure.
I've done the spraying with water thing, too. I have also used the aluminum can with pennies trick as well. The only problems with those tools is that it seems they're never in the room where you need them. Unless you go through unseemly mental processes to make sure they are with you everywhere, they are NEVER there when you need them it seems. When they are, I use them and they work well. So does turning on the vacuum cleaner which I always keep plugged in.
Yes I could've moved the umbrella. But I was intending to use it later that day and wanted it where I could get it easily. My attitude was, and remains--it's MY house, I don't change to accomodate the cat, the cat learns to not do whatever I don't want it to do. Period.
Whatever, after her time in the bathroom she was calmer. She did resist being put in there, and cried for letting out the 1st 20 minutes of the 30 she was in there. But we took her out, loving on her a lot so she knew that we do like having her--those "wild" moments aside--it's just that she needs to calm down a little, just a little.
In fact, this morning we experienced some of the sweetness. The cat does meow a lot when we first start waking up and moving around--when we go to the bathroom and come back to the bedroom and shut the door. She wants attention. Once we are totally up--which isn't long after most of the time--we do let her in and she is overjoyed with happiness. She gets LOTS of love and it's sweet.
THOSE moments remind us why we have her in the first place. Those moments are so sweet.
LRH
Lee Waun - 07 Jun 2004 20:04 GMT > In fact, this morning we experienced some of the sweetness. The cat > does meow a lot when we first start waking up and moving around--when [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > LRH I agree with the other posters that state you best get a goldfish and find the cat a proper home. My cats scratch the couch and I don't care a bit they aren't allowed outside give them some fun so they have the run of the house except the glass cabinet where they could do extreme damage. They know to stay away from there.
DL Farnworth - 08 Jun 2004 22:28 GMT |... the
| cat learns to not do whatever I don't want it to do. Period. ...
Realistically I don't think this is going to work. Sorry. The cat is as independent as you. Somehow you've got to negotiate a settlement. That can be "Bye bye, kitty!" or your complete submission or something in between.
But something else may be going on here anyway, something that may help. To illustrate: 2-3 times a week, between 2 and 4 am our 4-year old Sally stands on tip toe to reach under the covers and jab my knee. Drove me wild. This went on for at least 2 years. Tried "No!" Tried pillows. Tried shaking stuff. I even kept the water bottle by the bedside. I ended up chasing her around the house one morning after a week of not enough sleep. Not a good thing.
Then I changed because she wouldn't. When she grabbed, I'd pick her up (2 years have made me able to move without waking up!), put her on the bed and pet her briefly, about 1 minute. She'd settle down, snuggle up and go to sleep for about 5 minutes. Then she'd make her way to the middle of the bed to curl up for the rest of the night. She still does do the poking trick but not nearly as sharply. And she doesn't run away but waits to be picked up.
Maybe I did train her to wake me up. But I wasn't training her not to do so very well. And since I like the snuggling as much as she does, we're both ok here.
In short when your kitten is "wild," she may be asking for attention. She'd prefer nice but rough will do. Since, when you lock her away, she calls and calls to get you to come back, she obviously doesn't hold it against you. Just the opposite perhaps.
So maybe you should try to pick her up, not for long, just a minute or two. Give her pets and snuggle. Then put her down quietly nearby while you go on with your business.
It's worth a try. What you're doing now doesn't seem to be working.
Best of luck.
Dan
Steve Piper - 07 Jun 2004 11:46 GMT Hi Larry,
I'm not sure if all the responses you've had so far are that helpful, but some of the points are valid.
A cat is unlikely to ever have a similar level of obedience to a well trained dog; cats have been solitary animals since they evolved something like 30 million years ago; their whole social concept is completely different; most dogs are innately trainable because they have an evolved desire to fit in with the "pack" formed by a dog owning family and their pooch; cats have a very different outlook on the world.
Your kitten was most likely playing with the umbrella because it looked interesting when she patted it with her paw (their vision is very different to ours, much of the world is a blur until it moves; cat eyes are wired for movement, anything that moves about maybe reflecting light in it's folds looks pretty interesting), maybe it smelled of something interesting, maybe a spider or a bug was hiding in it that you didn't see.
A firm "no" (and the marbles trick someone suggested) is typically the best step in dissuading a cat (something they hate is loud sudden noises), but obviously in this case whatever caught her attantion was interesting enough to risk a further telling off. If my cat ever pushes for a second telling off we tend to make it a stronger one, shouting a big "no" and stomping up to her, she'll normally skip away to some corner, we follow and give her a few more stern "no"'s whilst shaking a finger in her face, the typical response is for her is to duck her head back into her neck a little, fold her ears back and kind of cringe, looking a lot like a schoolkid sternly told off by their teacher; she then tends to quiet for a few hours after which we'll go find her and show her som affection to let her know we still love her and so on; obviously this only works if you use it for when the cat is VERY bad, otherwise she'll just get scared of you all the time.
You could have simply removed the umbrella to a place she couldn't reach it; though this may have just turned her attention to something else.
I think the best policy here would be one of distraction though; if she's playing with anything then she wants to play (one guide I read summed it up as "your kitten will only be awake for a few hours each day, but during those hours they will expect to be entertained!"), if you had started playing with her with some string, that would probably have been a lot more interesting than the umbrella, or maybe kick about a small ball of paper or aluminium foil for a few minutes, this is normally enough encouragement for them to play with it themselves; we had a big problem with our cat getting bored at times when we were both busy at work or whatever, she used to scratch against furniture or get into difficult places (like under the floorboards) as a result, we bought her an activity centre thing with scratch posts and bits of string etc. hanging off it and no more problems; she had this big thing to clamber around and play on that we encouraged her to play with, so no more need to do anything else.
It's not always convenient to play, and sometimes cats can just be wild little demons, but that is what makes them what they are; seriously consider having her neutered as this does generally "calm down" cats, and a second kitten may not be such a bad idea either as they will keep each other occupied most of the time if you're busy, but locking her into a single room is unlikely to do much other than make her see you as an enemy, it will probably make her stressed and more wound up, she could grow to fear you which doesn't mean she'll obey you, she'll just run away when you come near. In the wild cats will learn by copying what their mother does, OK you can't go down on all fours and convince her not to play with the umbrella, but by taking the lead and showing her something else to play with she knows that is more acceptable to "mum" than attacking the umbrella; try to find the time, it only takes 10 minutes, and in a few months she'll begin to mellow out as nearly all cats do.
Remember she's still a baby, and they don't always do what they're told!
Good luck,
Steve
> Our cat is now 3 months older, yet on occasion she still needs to be calmed > down. I'm writing about effective deterrants. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > LRH JPHobbs - 14 Jun 2004 11:02 GMT Pushing your little cat in the bathroom after spraying her is cruel to my mind and if a silly little thing like the umberella episode makes you *Furious* then you must be exeedingly stressed out or a very quick tempered person, I've never had a wild cat like the one I've got now, but he just makes me laugh I dont really think you should have a cat,I hate to think what might happen if you went one step past furious, please think seriously about rehoming this Kitty
Jean.P.
> Hi Larry, > [quoted text clipped - 104 lines] > > > > LRH ~*Connie*~ - 08 Jun 2004 17:45 GMT the cat does not need to calm down, You should have gotten an older cat. A "time out" is not an appropriate behavior modification for a kitten. Its like trying to keep the tide back with a spoon. The kitten WILL get into everything, despite your desire for her not to. Sure.. leave her in the bathroom, she'll just shred the curtains, and unwind the toilet paper. Older cats will eventually listen and learn. They do want to please the ones they love.. not as obviously as dogs, so you do have to work differently with them. kittens however have absolutely no concept of training.
Rehome the cat. Everyone will be happier for it in the long run.
> Our cat is now 3 months older, yet on occasion she still needs to be calmed > down. I'm writing about effective deterrants. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > LRH
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