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Mad Cat--need advice

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Roger - 08 Apr 2008 22:00 GMT
Hi all--I have a cat who has always been the sweetest thing except for,
at unpredictable times, freaks out on me.  It can be any random thing
that sets her off, sometimes a cell phone or alarm clock, sometimes a
pillow, random things in her imagination.  

During these events she acts like she's in a cat fight, puffing up,
growling, hissing, lashing out and attacking with claws and sometimes
screaming.  She is quick as lightning when in this state.  She gets very
aggressive and will chase and and corner me, unless I grab some object
to put between us.  

The vet has checked her thoroughly for anything physical; she's always
been on time with all vaccinations, etc.

I've had several cats over my long life, but never encountered this
problem.  I always thought when I heard people talk this way about a cat
that they just didn't know cats.

I've tried being better at recognizing triggers, behavioral changes,
igoring, yelling, sedatives, spray bottles, treats, you name it.  Now
I'm down to deciding to get her de-clawed, so she won't be dangerous.  

She's a 100% indoor cat with no other animals.

Anyway I'm tired of getting slashed up and living with the anxiety.  I'm
engaged to someone who has a 6 year old so I need to take action.

Any advice before I follow thru with declawing?

Thanks,
Rog
joe - 08 Apr 2008 22:11 GMT
> Hi all--I have a cat who has always been the sweetest thing except for,
> at unpredictable times, freaks out on me.  It can be any random thing
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> Thanks,
> Rog

Maybe she is having flashbacks.  What kind of drugs did she do back in the
60's?
Matthew - 08 Apr 2008 22:28 GMT
ok before  you even think of declawing  please Google it. YOU will be sick
to your stomach
second  have you had a full blood work done up if not get it done
third  if you have done the above try a new vet or animal behaviorist

It sounds like hyperthyroidism   when a cat freaks out  they might be seeing
things which this disease cause I have a cat like this  a simple pill a day
has done wonders

> Hi all--I have a cat who has always been the sweetest thing except for,
> at unpredictable times, freaks out on me.  It can be any random thing
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> Thanks,
> Rog
nero - 09 Apr 2008 07:12 GMT
> ok before  you even think of declawing  please Google it. YOU will be sick
> to your stomach
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> things which this disease cause I have a cat like this  a simple pill a day
> has done wonders

Has anyone ruled out epileptic seizures?  'Had a cat (and a dog, great
dane) at one time or another in my life that had same and reacted similarly.
Dan Espen - 09 Apr 2008 00:24 GMT
> Hi all--I have a cat who has always been the sweetest thing except for,
> at unpredictable times, freaks out on me.  It can be any random thing
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Any advice before I follow thru with declawing?

Declawing won't help, it will just change the mode of attack.

Unlike most of the posters here, I've seen declawed cats,
in fact I own one.  Our cat is fine and she's quite old now.

In my opinion, a declawed cat is no less dangerous.
They are doing you a favor when they attack with their claws.
A cat can bite like a snake.

Yes, I have first hand experience with that too.

Even without claws, a cat can move so fast, you don't have a chance
getting out of the way.

Our current cat was always fine, unless strangers came in the house.
Then she would walk up to them, and pretend to be friendly.
If she started to make noise, that was the only warning they got.
Over the years, she's calmed down.  Now she's fine with guests.

But if I let her out on the porch and she sees a wild animal,
I don't want to get between her and the animal.

In your case, if you can't calm the cat down,
you need to get rid of it.
AMUN - 10 Apr 2008 15:30 GMT
>> Hi all--I have a cat who has always been the sweetest thing except for,
>> at unpredictable times, freaks out on me.  It can be any random thing
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> Even without claws, a cat can move so fast, you don't have a chance
> getting out of the way.

Hee-Hee,  not when they are on a polished tile floor.
Sorry, but anyone who's ever seen a cat either going at full tilt and try to
stop/turn, or start running when on glossy tiles will know what I mean.

But to the OP.
Cat's can go off about the weirdest things.
Change of perfume/aftershave or even a drastic clothing change.
e.g ours sometimes go nuts when you come in the house wearing a winter coat
with a hood up, until you pull off the hood and they see who you are. Or
even the kids when in halloween costumes.
We also have one that would hiss at and attack anyone who whistled a tune.
Not sure if the pitch (harmonics) hurt it's ears, or it just liked to hear
the lyrics.

...Or it could be some neurological or occasional physical pain disorder the
vet missed
snuffypots@gmail.com - 09 Apr 2008 01:29 GMT
> Hi all--I have a cat who has always been the sweetest thing except for,
> at unpredictable times, freaks out on me.  It can be any random thing
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> Thanks,
> Rog

You dont say how long your cat has lived with you.  When my cat first
moved into my house from the street he went wild about many things and
scared me badly.  Actually I even threw him out and had to go looking
for him when I thought it over.  He reacted to noises he had never
heard before and did not understand.  Like the clothes dryer, like the
toilet flushing, like things I couldnt even hear.  After 1-1/2 years
of living with me he's not afraid of anything.  Someone on this list
thinks cats dont learn but my little dope did.  The last thing he is
trying to learn concerns eating plastic bottle caps and throwing them
up. Im trying to teach him to kill bugs instead of just gently playing
with them.
oldhickory - 09 Apr 2008 05:09 GMT
is she a rescue?

is she a tortie?

Is it a poop zoom?  (does she go to the litterbox after wards)

Those are two recurring themes I've found amongst rescues and torties.

Signature

ie
ride fast, take chances.

> Hi all--I have a cat who has always been the sweetest thing except for,
> at unpredictable times, freaks out on me.  It can be any random thing
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> Thanks,
> Rog
skinnysteve - 09 Apr 2008 11:37 GMT
>Hi all--I have a cat who has always been the sweetest thing except for,
>at unpredictable times, freaks out on me.  It can be any random thing
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>Thanks,
>Rog
do not declaw  try letting cat out for short periods
William Graham - 09 Apr 2008 20:03 GMT
When your cat enters this state, how long does she stay in it? - ie: how
long does her, "fit" last? - It sounds like it might be an epileptic fit,
and if so, there might be drugs that will help her to avoid it........In the
meantime, just try to isolate her in a padded environment, and wait until
it's over........Perhaps you can get a large cat carrier, pad it up on the
inside, and put her it in while she is in that state by picking her up by
the scruff of the neck, and holding her hind legs with your other hand, and
put her down in the box, and then slamming the door shut with the hind legs
hand as soon as it's free.....
A vet can show you how to do this quite easily.
MaryL - 09 Apr 2008 12:28 GMT
> Hi all--I have a cat who has always been the sweetest thing except for,
> at unpredictable times, freaks out on me.  It can be any random thing
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> Thanks,
> Rog

Please consider the Tufts University Petfax Program (through their School of
Veterinary Medicine).  Declawing definitely is not the answer.  Many of us
have written on numerous occasions about the cruelty of declawing. It also
would not solve the problem you described because declawed cats may have to
resort to their other weapons for defense - teeth.  I realize that you are
not doing anything to cause your cat to think she needs "defensive" weapons,
but we do not always understand how our cats think or feel.

The Tufts Petfax Program is a consulting service for pet behavioral
problems.  I have read many positive reports about them, and my sister used
the service at one time.  She had done everything she could think of to
solve a spraying problem, and her entire house reeked.  She had gone to
several veterinarians, including a long trip to a holistic vet, but nothing
helped - until Tufts.  This service was very helpful.  I think the original
consultation is $231.00, but it includes an extensive written report and 3
follow-ups (with some options for telephone consultation).  There is a
report to fill out first, and the people who posted about it stressed that
it is very important to include *all details*.  My sister acted on their
advice and obtained a prescription from her veterinarian for Prozac.  Please
note that this was a last option and not something that she jumped on in the
beginning, but it has *completely solved* the problem of spraying.  Her cat
has had no difficulties with the medication, and there have been no
additional spraying episodes since she started the program several years ago
(although you do have to give it enough time to adjust and be effective).
It is vital to first make sure that your cat does not have any medical
problems (but I am working on that assumption because you said your cat was
already vet checked).

Here are two links --
Tufts School of Veterinary Medicine Petfax Program:
http://www.tufts.edu/vet/petfax/
About the Petfax Program:
http://www.tufts.edu/vet/petfax/about.html

Please keep us updated.  This is a problem that needs to be addressed, and I
know that is what you are trying to do.

MaryL
Kitty - 09 Apr 2008 20:12 GMT
> Hi all--I have a cat who has always been the sweetest thing except for,
> at unpredictable times, freaks out on me.  It can be any random thing
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> Thanks,
> Rog

Please think long & hard about declawing. It is a savage act. I would even
say it borders on animal abuse. The cat sounds like Thyroid
disease......have it checked, its fairly common in cats. Also, after
declawing, it may get even "madder".

Kitty
honeybunch - 09 Apr 2008 22:23 GMT
> Hi all--I have a cat who has always been the sweetest thing except for,
> at unpredictable times, freaks out on me.  It can be any random thing
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> Thanks,
> Rog

One more thing about my cat is that he has a great facination with
play.  Ive never had a cat like this one in that respect.  He gallops
around like a horse chasing the laser pointer and actually jumps up
like an outfielder to catch a ball.  He does jump out from under the
bed sometimes and jump on my shoes but he doesnt really hurt me.  Its
just an indication that he wants it to be playtime.  Its really hard
to imagine a house cat that has lived with you for a long time
suddenly trying to hurt you for no reason that you can notice.  The
cat is probably sick if its not afraid or just being playful.
Pookie - 15 Apr 2008 06:26 GMT
> Hi all--I have a cat who has always been the sweetest thing except for,
> at unpredictable times, freaks out on me.  It can be any random thing
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> Thanks,
> Rog

My ex-roommate had a cat for 12 years that was the sweetest most lovable
thing you've ever seen. One night I was in my room and suddenly heard her
start screaming; when I went to see what was going on, Chunky (the cat) had
my roommate cornered behind the bedroom door, snarling viciously at her. I
could see where Chunky had already scratched my roommate fairly badly. About
30 seconds after I came down the hall and Chunky saw me, she suddenly put
her back down, stopped hissing, and turned around and went up on her
favorite place on my roommate's bed. She went to sleep! I asked my roommate
what had happened, and she said this was like the 3rd or 4th time that
Chunky had suddenly turned on her like that; just suddenly attacked for no
reason at all. This time though, my roommate was lying in the bed, drifting
off to sleep; she said it was a good thing she wasn't deeply asleep because
Chunky would have done much more serious damage than she had!

She tried to get Chunky to the vet, but the one time she tried to get her
into her carrier, the cat went wild. We both ended up getting deeply
scratched and my roommate was bitten. It had never been a problem taking
Chunky anywhere before. It ended with my roommate calling animal control to
come and get the cat, and she had to be put down, there was nothing that
could be done for her.

Rog, as much as I love cats, (I rescued and kept a feral cat off the highway
and went through the nightmare of trying to calm her down enough to be an
indoor cat.) you have to think of yourself and that 6 year old child. As
others have said, declawing is not the answer, not when cats have teeth. My
suggestion is, unless you are willing to invest the time and money into
investigating the cat's mental state and then still risk not finding an
answer, (and in the meantime still putting yourself and that child at risk)
you need to get rid of it. It's not a happy choice to make I know, but when
you balance the safety and well-being of yourself, your fiancée and that 6
yr old child against your attachment to the cat, is there really any
question?

Good luck.
William Graham - 15 Apr 2008 21:43 GMT
>> Hi all--I have a cat who has always been the sweetest thing except for,
>> at unpredictable times, freaks out on me.  It can be any random thing
[quoted text clipped - 63 lines]
>
> Good luck.
I have one that does a similar thing, only not as bad.....She will be nice
as pie, lying there being petted, and drifting off to sleep, and then
suddenly, she will scratch or bite, and with a yelp, will jump down and run
off a few feet.......She does this with other people as well as myself. A
few minutes (maybe 10 or 20 minutes) later, she will jump back up and be as
lovable as ever. I don't know why she does this.....It's almost like Turrets
syndrome, or some sort of "petit mal", but it is unnerving. She lives with
four other cats, and she doesn't get along with any of them, so I don't want
to declaw her. Also, she has never done me or anyone else any significant
damage.....Just a scratch on the hand once in a while, so I guess I will
have to live with it. But I warn other people who come in the house to watch
out for her. She was an outside cat from the beginning......I got her from a
farmer who was allergic to cats and wouldn't let her in the house. She
enjoys living inside with us, and seldom goes outside. - But I wish I knew
what was wrong with her, or what exactly it is that sets her off........
Upscale - 16 Apr 2008 00:29 GMT
"William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
> enjoys living inside with us, and seldom goes outside. - But I wish I knew
> what was wrong with her, or what exactly it is that sets her off........

A friend of mine had a cat that did what describe, only to a much greater
degree. All that changed at one point when she changed the perfume that she
liked to wear. The cat never had another "fit" again.
Kathy - 16 Apr 2008 23:48 GMT
> "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> enjoys living inside with us, and seldom goes outside. - But I wish I
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> she
> liked to wear. The cat never had another "fit" again.
My cat does that after finding catnip. It hides in a lot of toys for
felines... We went through an "incident" last night. No one was hurt, but.
egads , the fur flew - literally!
Kathy
Pookie - 16 Apr 2008 00:42 GMT
>>> Hi all--I have a cat who has always been the sweetest thing except for,
>>> at unpredictable times, freaks out on me.  It can be any random thing
[quoted text clipped - 79 lines]
> seldom goes outside. - But I wish I knew what was wrong with her, or what
> exactly it is that sets her off........

Hi William,

What you're describing sounds like what my cat does, (the one that was
feral) she'll come to me for petting and I'll stroke her for awhile, then
she'll suddenly turn on me and swing and gallop off. Since I've gotten
adjusted to it, I know what to watch for, but the first time it happened she
swiped me a good one. I don't even think she really means to hurt me, it's
more like she's having a flashback or something to her days in the street.
After a few minutes, she comes back, tapping me on the arm or leg like she
does for more petting.

I don't think though it's the same as what Rog is describing though. His cat
sounds like it has a serious fit when it goes off, and if my cat ever
started acting like that, I would have to let her go. I have a 7 yr old
grandchild, and as much as I love my ChaCha, there is no choice between her
and my grandson.

Pookie
William Graham - 16 Apr 2008 04:32 GMT
>>>> Hi all--I have a cat who has always been the sweetest thing except for,
>>>> at unpredictable times, freaks out on me.  It can be any random thing
[quoted text clipped - 101 lines]
>
> Pookie

Yes. I don't have any young children in the house.....Even our grandchildren
are all at least 10 years old, so I don't have to worry about them. I don't
know the complete history of any of my 5 cats, so some of them could have
led horrific lives before I got them. Most wild animals do. (lead horrific
lives, that is) Spending a lot of time undoing the works of a heartless God
seems to be the destiny of us human beings.......
Billy U - 16 Apr 2008 07:51 GMT
Spending a lot of time
> undoing the works of a heartless God seems to be the destiny of us
> human beings.......
>
> f.ck you, Bill.
William Graham - 16 Apr 2008 19:37 GMT
> Spending a lot of time
>> undoing the works of a heartless God seems to be the destiny of us
>> human beings.......
>>
>> f.ck you, Bill.

I only call it like I see it, Billy.......
Upscale - 16 Apr 2008 12:08 GMT
"William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
> lives, that is) Spending a lot of time undoing the works of a heartless God
> seems to be the destiny of us human beings.......

Too bad the works of that heartless God pale in comparison to what humans
can and do on a regular basis. And, saying that God created those heartless
humans is nothing more than a copout. Man and his religion has accounted for
more strife and misery in the world than the sum total of everything else.
The fact that nature has caused difficulty for many of your cats pales in
comparison to that man has done to every other living animal, (including
himself) on the planet.
wayne5martin@gmail.com - 17 Apr 2008 05:25 GMT
> Hi all--I have a cat who has always been the sweetest thing except for,
> at unpredictable times, freaks out on me.  It can be any random thing
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> Thanks,
> Rog

Hi, Rog.  I've read all the posts as of tonight.  I've been where
you're at.

We've rescued upwards of 140 cats over the decades, placing most of
them in homes, keeping many of them.  I have a bit of medical advice
and one very different story.

I've seen several cats act this way.  I've seen only one that couldn't
be treated and saved.

Your cat needs some blood work done.  Diseases that can cause this
behavior:  diabetes, some forms of epilepsy, hyperthyroidism,
bacterial infection in the cavity of the belly, abdominal hernia,
broken bones, organophosphide poisoning (think lawn pesticides and the
first heavy rain of the spring).

The common theme is severe pain.  And it is cyclical, meaning they
have better days and worse days.  The triggers could be food,
pesticides on the catnip, a specific physical contact or posture, or
some internal metabolic or pathologic cycle.

Save the poisoning blood work for last.  It's expensive and they only
check for a few things anyways.  If none of the other diseases come
back positive, then the cat's history might point to poisoning.

We rescued a family of ferals out of a business park.  Someone asked
for our help.  What we found were a half dozen skinny kittens and no
momma; killed by a car we later learned.

We got them all and placed three right away.  They were more used to
humans.  Three we decided to keep.  Then, trouble.

One of the brothers, a beautiful Russian Blue we named Jasper, had
played the role of guardian of the family in the business park.  When
he was in the same room the his brother and sister, he would not let
me or my wife near them.  He would go into tiger mode and back us
away.  Separate him from his siblings and he just hid, never making a
peep.

The day came to go to the vets.  We were running out of time and I had
to separate Jasper from the others and get him into a carrier.

I got him out from under the bed with a broom.  My wife detoured him
into the bathroom and shut the door.  I slid past the door with the
carrier.  I opened it and sat it on the floor at my feet, the open
door facing Jasper.

Jasper screamed like no cat I'd ever heard.  I froze, sweat filling my
hands. He flew to the towel rack, falling to the floor under the
towels.  He scrambled into the shower, then launched into the corner
where the walls meet the ceiling, then fell to the floor, then flew
over the shower stall.  There was no window or escape.  He bounced off
the tank, glanced off the sink, and hit the floor on his side at my
feet.

On his left, my naked feet.  On his right, the open door of the condo.
He gathered his legs one by one beneath him in a crouch, staring into
my eyes the whole time.  I was about to cry.

"You have to get inside", I said, my voice breaking towards silence.
I leaned over and indicated the open door with my hand.

Jasper sprung at my face.

I watched his shoulder blades move together.  I watched his back arch
to throw his front quarters upwards, his tail twist in counterbalance
to line up his head with mine.  I watched his front claws slide out
from their sheaths.  I watched his paws rotate to face each other.  I
watched his jaws open, his whiskers bull flush to the sides of his
face, and his eyes narrow to keep his focus straight along his nose.
I saw his nostrils flare.  I saw his jaws stretch.  I saw the back of
his throat close.  I saw his tongue pull back out of the way.  I saw
every rib on the roof of his mouth.  I saw the taste buds on the tip
of his tongue, the smooth white insides of molars, the red gums, the
packed bits of kibble.

My hands remained frozen at my sides.  And although my mouth did not
move and my breath held, I heard my voice inside my head say,
"Please".

His head stopped mid-air, his nose an inch from mine, his eyes
searching mine in surprise.  His body floated up even with his head,
followed by his tail, then the whole descended back onto all fours.
In a half crouch, Jasper growled a slow, low moan, lowered his head
and tail, walked inside the carrier, turned around and laid down.

Not much changed after the vet's.  Not much except I was in love with
Jasper.

But it was not to be.

Three weeks later we took Jasper to a half way house.  The lady had
eighteen cats and rehabilitated feral and traumatized cats so they
could find homes.  Two weeks later we got her call, telling us that
Jasper was now with a young couple and no other cats.  He loved to
sleep on their laps or watch TV with them or cuddle up in bed or meet
them at the door; no running out.

When we first talked to the lady at the halfway house, she told me,
"Not everybody wants to be your cat."

Don't de-claw your friend.  Something's going on and it's worth
finding out what.

Deepest regards,
Wayne
 
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