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Cat Forum / General Topics / November 2007Dell, HP or Compaq?
I've about had it will all the problems I've experienced with my Dell, not to mention how hard it is to get help from their (India based) support. In your opinions would an HP or Compaq be better than Dell? Have their own issues? I did have a Compaq as my first computer some years ago. My godmother is still using it (just for email) 12 years later. sorry everyone, I clicked on the wrong group in my outlook express! > sorry everyone, I clicked on the wrong group in my outlook express! Where are you going to post the question? I'll "follow" you there because I'm also interested in people's perceptions of the current crop of computers. I just started looking, and the technology has changed so much since I bought my current system that I no longer even understand the specs when I read them! Thanks, MaryL it was meant to be at the newsgroup named alt.computer >> sorry everyone, I clicked on the wrong group in my outlook express! > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Thanks, > MaryL > it was meant to be at the newsgroup named alt.computer Okay, thanks. I'll watch for it there. MaryL >> sorry everyone, I clicked on the wrong group in my outlook express! >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > since I bought my current system that I no longer even understand the > specs when I read them! I just bought an Ibex PC from <http://www.ibexpc.com/> - I now have two: an Athlon powered 64 bit Linux machine used as a file and web server, and the new 3 gigaHertz XP machine (2 gigabytes of memory and a terabyte of disk space). I was happy enough with the first one to buy a second and to recomend Ibex to others. One of the things I like about them is that they don't put a lot of useless junk software and trialware on their systems - they put just one package on mine, and it includes a quite useful CD/DVD burning program. Much of the rest of what you might need can be had for free from <http://downloads.google.com/>: Star office, Google Earth, Firefox, Adobe reader - best to skip the Norton stuff though, and especially Spyware Doctor. Thunderbird (email and clumsy newsgroups) is from <http://www.mozilla.com>, and good spyware programs can be had from <http://www.lavasoft.com/products/ad_aware_free.php> and <http://www.safer-networking.org/en/download/> (use Internet Explorer for download). A free antivirus program is AVG from <http://free.grisoft.com/doc/downloads-products/us/frt/0?prd=aff>  SignatureT.E.D. (tdavis@umr.edu) UMR becomes MST soon. >best to skip the Norton stuff though, and >especially Spyware Doctor. I use Norton and it works very well. Show me someone who has trouble with it and i'll show someone who most likely has too little ram. > and good spyware programs can be had from ><http://www.lavasoft.com/products/ad_aware_free.php> You should have several spyware programs. Spybot search and destroy is good too. > >best to skip the Norton stuff though, and >>especially Spyware Doctor. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Spybot search and destroy is good too. I used Norton for many years, going clear back to the days of DOS. I continued to use it, even though I read many complaints about it, because I didn't have any problems at. I started with Norton AntiVirus and was using Norton System Works "at the end" and had been for several years. Then, it bit me (as in "snake bite"). Originally, it was only one version of Ghost that caused a problem even though previous versions had not. Then, the whole thing became a disaster. My computer became extremely slow, and Norton would give me continual messages that parts had not been installed (although they were). I spent many, many hours online with Norton livechat and following their instructions -- frustrating hours after several of their techs insisted that I follow procedures that produced nothing. The problem was never solved and it took quite a bit of work to install because Norton is one of the programs that leaves all sorts of pieces scattered around the computer even after an uninstall. So, I think you have now met someone who had problems but who does have enough RAM. I have a Pentium 4 with 512 MB of RAM. I now alternate between AVG and Avast! instead of using Norton. MaryL >> >best to skip the Norton stuff though, and >>>especially Spyware Doctor. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > MaryL Correction: I meant that it took quite a bit of work to *uninstall* (not "install") Norton because Norton leaves bits and pieces of their files scattered around the hard disk even after doing an uninstall. MaryL >>best to skip the Norton stuff though, and especially Spyware Doctor. > I use Norton and it works very well. Show me someone who has trouble > with it and i'll show someone who most likely has too little ram. The problems are that it's almost impossible to support over the phone and it requires hands on expertise to remove it. - T.E.D. (tdavis@umr.edu) UMR becomes MST soon. >>> sorry everyone, I clicked on the wrong group in my outlook express! >>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >download). A free antivirus program is AVG from ><http://free.grisoft.com/doc/downloads-products/us/frt/0?prd=aff> I use Foxit reader instead of Adobloat AVG now has free anti spyware and anti rootkit > sorry everyone, I clicked on the wrong group in my outlook express! At least your post is better than some of the garbage flooding here lately. Not sure about Dell, but HP and Compaq are both now made by HP, and both are put together with the cheapest parts they can get. (compaq now seems to be their "value" line) Also HP may offer windows installed but it's their own version of windows,and it's not supported by Microsoft. Several people I know with HP's had to end up buying their own copy of Microsoft Windows and installing it. However Dell may be the same. Bottom line,...they are all junk, and will be obsolete in a few months, so buy the one at the best price. >Not sure about Dell, but HP and Compaq are both now made by HP, and both are >put together with the cheapest parts they can get. >(compaq now seems to be their "value" line) Compaq is no more. It was swallowed up by HP. >Also HP may offer windows installed but it's their own version of >windows,and it's not supported by Microsoft. Wrong. It's genuine Windows. You are aware all software including the OS is supported by the OEM (in this case HP.)? >Several people I know with HP's had to end up buying their own copy of >Microsoft Windows and installing it. >However Dell may be the same. I have an HP laptop it came with Windows and works fine. (as fine as Windows can.) Why did they have to buy it? (Maybe they didn't back it up in preperation for a crash? >Bottom line,...they are all junk, and will be obsolete in a few months, so >buy the one at the best price. Bear in mind no matter what computer you buy today it will be obsolete before you leave the store. The computer industry is advancing so fast now that every thing you buy is obsolete before you get it home. And no not every computer is junk. All too often that computer someone is complaining about being a peice of junk....it's that way because they skimped on things like RAM. >>Not sure about Dell, but HP and Compaq are both now made by HP, and both >>are [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > someone is complaining about being a peice of junk....it's that > way because they skimped on things like RAM. Unless you "spec them out" as you can do with Dell, any off the shelf computer is generally, just good enough to work. That's why staples, best buy and other stores, sell and install their own upgrades. While the HP & Compaq's I've seen lately don't have parallel or serial ports, and many users may not need them, the omission of these is proof that they try to cut every corner they can in cost. So if you still need a serial port you can add a card, but that's extra. The reason why some HP owners needed to buy their own copies of windows is that way HP installs it. And does not (usually) even provide a restore disk, or one that only restores the system to exactly the way HP set it up originally. (even if you want it different) For many this may be sufficient, but power users need (or just want) to tweak systems to their own specs. eg., running dual operating systems, more advanced networking, etc. We do agree that no matter what you buy, within a year you will want to replace it anyway, and it's getting to the point where new new systems are often cheaper than upgrading an older system, so once again, just get the best price. >Unless you "spec them out" as you can do with Dell, any off the shelf >computer is generally, just good enough to work. You can spec them out with HP. Just go to HP.com. >While the HP & Compaq's I've seen lately don't have parallel or serial >ports, and many users may not need them, the omission of these is proof that >they try to cut every corner they can in cost. In case you haven't noticed alot of stuff uses USB ports now. The last several printers used either USB or network connections. >So if you still need a serial port you can add a card, but that's extra. I have serial on the desktop but nothing uses it anymore. >And does not (usually) even provide a restore disk, or one that only >restores the system to exactly the way HP set it up originally. (even if you >want it different) Uhh...you burn your own recovery disk on to DVD. Or didn't you notice that. Or you can do what I do.....use Norton to create an exact copy of the hard drive. >For many this may be sufficient, but power users need (or just want) to >tweak systems to their own specs. >eg., running dual operating systems, more advanced networking, etc. HP.com lets you design your own computer to your own specs. >We do agree that no matter what you buy, within a year you will want to >replace it anyway, and it's getting to the point where new new systems are >often cheaper than upgrading an older system, so once again, just get the >best price. For a long time it's been cheaper to buy new than upgrade. I remember it being that way on my ancient 8086 with the 20 meg hard drive that I thought I would never fill up. >>Unless you "spec them out" as you can do with Dell, any off the shelf >>computer is generally, just good enough to work. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > it being that way on my ancient 8086 with the 20 meg hard drive that > I thought I would never fill up. At least the HP's I've seen come from the factory with a really strange install. The backup files are on a locked D: partition, and only HP has the password to copy it. As already mentioned it's probably good for most people, as they can't get in to screw it up, but sucks for power users. And if your drive goes wonky,....you're uh,...out of luck. Of course you can save a drive image, but it would be nice to just have an original CD to just reinstall if needed. >At least the HP's I've seen come from the factory with a really strange >install. >The backup files are on a locked D: partition, and only HP has the password >to copy it. My laptop has a e: partition with a recovery. I've never used it but I also have a backup dvd for recovery as well as Norton genarated copies. >As already mentioned it's probably good for most people, as they can't get >in to screw it up, but sucks for power users. >And if your drive goes wonky,....you're uh,...out of luck. You're backups should be external media anyways. Having the restore on Drive D: will be next to useless if the hard drive dies out. >>At least the HP's I've seen come from the factory with a really strange >>install. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > You're backups should be external media anyways. Having the restore > on Drive D: will be next to useless if the hard drive dies out. Agreed! But that's my point, HP/compaq don't supply the disk. How much more would it cost them to throw a CD in the box ? If they are that desperate to save a few pennies, imagine what they put in for components. >>>At least the HP's I've seen come from the factory with a really strange >>>install. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > If they are that desperate to save a few pennies, imagine what they put in > for components. I refuse to own a Hp.Compaq computer. The cd is nothing to give you. What happens if you lose the drive completely you screwed. I ended up using a flash drive and a DVD just in case Preloaded windows with out them giving you a disk is just a way to save money >>>>At least the HP's I've seen come from the factory with a really strange >>>>install. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Preloaded windows with out them giving you a disk is just a way to save > money I agree. In fact, I still miss the days when computers came with real manuals instead of just online help. However, dispensing with printed manuals at least saved them a few dollars -- the missing CDs would only be a few cents each. Incidentally, I do have a Compaq computer, and it has been a good one. However, it is five years old, so I acquired it before the HP/Compaq merger, and it came with several CDs (including a restore disk -- which I have used a couple of times). I bought it at Staples, and I had it configured to my specifications. I ordered a second internal hard drive, and I even had an internal Zip drive added. I would not do that now that small thumb drives and similar peripherals are available, but I had a great deal of use out of that drive for several years since I transport files back and forth to the office on an almost daily basis. One interesting thing about this thread is: The OP has had more (and better) response from this group than from the computer newsgroup. MaryL Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'< Duffy: http://tinyurl.com/cslwf Holly: http://tinyurl.com/9t68o Duffy and Holly together: http://tinyurl.com/8b47e >>>>>At least the HP's I've seen come from the factory with a really strange >>>>>install. [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > Holly: http://tinyurl.com/9t68o > Duffy and Holly together: http://tinyurl.com/8b47e Shows that cats slaves know what we are talking about ;-) I bought my mom one of these black Fridays deals a couple years ago. It was a Compaq what a waste I had to void the warranty to get it to speed up it need way more memory and it came with no OEM copies of anything it was al stored on the hard drive. Which made it even slower for it would check periodically to make sure windows was fine. I made backs ups and formatted the hard drive and installed my OEMWindows XP on it and away it went. I feel sorry for you all with Vista what a waste it is > One interesting thing about this thread is: The OP has had more (and > better) response from this group than from the computer newsgroup. Hi, I'm the OP. Sorry again that I misposted it here first, but it is true, a ton more responses than the computer usenet group itself. >> One interesting thing about this thread is: The OP has had more (and >> better) response from this group than from the computer newsgroup. > > Hi, I'm the OP. Sorry again that I misposted it here first, but it is > true, a ton more responses than the computer usenet group itself. No surprise. Cat owners are smarter than the average human. >>> One interesting thing about this thread is: The OP has had more (and >>> better) response from this group than from the computer newsgroup. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >No surprise. >Cat owners are smarter than the average human. Only because their cats teach them to be that way... >I've about had it will all the problems I've experienced with my Dell, not >to mention how hard it is to get help from their (India based) support. In >your opinions would an HP or Compaq be better than Dell? Have their own >issues? I did have a Compaq as my first computer some years ago. My >godmother is still using it (just for email) 12 years later. You are aware that HP owns Compaq? So look for Compaq to disappear for the most part as Compaq products are rebranded as HP. I've found HP support better than Dell. Also don't bother with phone support. With HP go to HP.com and open up a chat session with support. Also make use of the support offered on usenet in various usenet newsgroups. >I've about had it will all the problems I've experienced with my Dell, not >to mention how hard it is to get help from their (India based) support. In >your opinions would an HP or Compaq be better than Dell? Have their own >issues? I did have a Compaq as my first computer some years ago. My >godmother is still using it (just for email) 12 years later. cats only please >>I've about had it will all the problems I've experienced with my Dell, not >>to mention how hard it is to get help from their (India based) support. In [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >cats only please This is relevant since my cat is supervising this discussion. >I've about had it will all the problems I've experienced with my Dell, not >to mention how hard it is to get help from their (India based) support. In >your opinions would an HP or Compaq be better than Dell? Have their own >issues? I did have a Compaq as my first computer some years ago. My >godmother is still using it (just for email) 12 years later. I've been building my own since 1991 (a 386). Whenever I need tech support, I look in the mirror and ask him my question. He rarely knows the answer, but at least he speaks English gooder than most. >>I've about had it will all the problems I've experienced with my Dell, not >>to mention how hard it is to get help from their (India based) support. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > support, I look in the mirror and ask him my question. He rarely > knows the answer, but at least he speaks English gooder than most. I think my cat knows more about a computer than more of those "techs" that you refer to. I tried that guy in the mirror, but he keeps insisting I leave it with him for a week and there is a $80, minimum shop charge. >I've about had it will all the problems I've experienced with my Dell, not >to mention how hard it is to get help from their (India based) support. In >your opinions would an HP or Compaq be better than Dell? Have their own >issues? I did have a Compaq as my first computer some years ago. My >godmother is still using it (just for email) 12 years later. Having had experience with all three for personal and professional use when I was in the I.T. field, my recommendation is to stay very far away from the Compaq/HP garbage. As others have pointed out, Compaq got "Borged" by HP and the Compaq crap polluted the HP waters. HP still has decent printers with the LaserJet line, but Compaq's infamous "Presario" line was less reliable than a Fisher-Price toy in the hands of an eight year old boy with a ball-peen hammer and about as useful as such after the boy was done. In my professional dealings with HP/Compaq "technicians" that came to fix our servers and tape library units, I found that they have about the same skills as the aforementioned eight year old. Broken parts were attempted to be replaced with parts defective out of their repair box, they couldn't figure out how to disassemble the units they were sent out to repair, and Compaq tried to deny us warranty coverage on items still under warranty. When my users at work asked me the same question you posed about Dell vs. Compaq/HP, they were informed of the same info I posted. I also told them that a Compaq is more useful as a piñata than as a computer and I would gladly supply the bat. Or I would invite them to the local range to put some ventilation holes in the case, of the .45 caliber variety. Unfortunately so much tech support from many companies has been outsourced to India or other places where their grasp of the English language is poor and it is frustrating to communicate with them. Compaq's answer to most computer problems was "Run a QuickRestore" - which referred to their hard drive imaging process with a boot-loading CD that wipes out ALL your data and the entire hard drive, then installs a factory load operating system and base programs to return it to "out of the box" condition. With Dell I found the hardware to be more reliable, and I played "Phone Roulette" when calling tech support - if the accent on the other end of the line was too unintelligible I would hang up and dial again to get a different operator to answer. Signatureannoyed@net.spammers Craig, Kathi & "Cat Five" the tabby girl "One way that you can tell that 'Mythbusters' has been in the area is to look for shrapnel in the trees." - Jamie Hyneman >>I've about had it will all the problems I've experienced with my Dell, not >>to mention how hard it is to get help from their (India based) support. [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > to > answer. Piggybacking here...What do you think of Gateway? I have a 5-year-old Compaq Presario 8000. Fortunately, it has been reliable, but I already knew I should not go that route when I get another computer. On the other hand, I have a Dell at the office, and their tech support has been sub-par, to say the least. The University bought a great many Dell computers, and tech support told me that they have had nothing but problems with Dell support. So, now I'm wondering about Gateway. Any thoughts on that...or other suggestions? Thanks MaryL
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