 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsGeneral TopicsCat AnecdotesHealth and BehaviorRescue CatKB.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Cat Forum / General Topics / July 2007The things you come across on Usenet (cats)
I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/control-pet-cats/ Saying that the people in the UK are watched and spied upon by Govt agencies, who knows what is next. Camera's in trees !  SignatureCount Baldoni > I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > -- > Count Baldoni Yeah, Right!! Yes, I live in the Uk, & I have never heard such tripe in my entire life! Not in a million lifetimes would I agree with that or comply with it either. Less that 9 months ago, I had to trap a feral kitty who had a collar that was so small that it was covered by skin where it was growing over the collar... It was postulated, had a dreadful abscess that required draining & treating with antibiotics for a several weeks. Perhaps I should send them the vets report that described the incident as sheer luck that the animal didn't asphyxiate? I understand the reasons behind the proposal, but it just is not practical.. <Vent over!!> Sheelagh >> I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. >> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Sheelagh It is the responsibility, not the right, of good men to break bad laws. - Spencer Tracy in "Judgment at Nuremberg" It is hard for me to think of a law that would be better broken than a cat collar law, or a cat leash law. People who love unenforceable laws, and tax laws are called, "Liberals". >>> I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. >>> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > cat collar law, or a cat leash law. People who love unenforceable laws, > and tax laws are called, "Liberals". "Liberalism is a mental disorder" Dr Michael Savage The Savage Nation "Baldoni @googlemail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nil> wrote in message news:mn.3b307d7744f5d63b.74922@googlemail.co > I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > upon by Govt agencies, who knows what is next. Camera's > in trees ! What a load of crap. Cats are wild animals, here in the UK they have the right to roam where they please, long may it remain so. As to being spied on, that's more true than anywhere else. There are more CCTV cameras per head of population in the UK than anywhere else in the world. George Orwell had it almost right, he just got the year wrong. Ivor > "Baldoni @googlemail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nil> wrote in > message news:mn.3b307d7744f5d63b.74922@googlemail.co [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > What a load of crap. Cats are wild animals, here in the UK they have the > right to roam where they please, long may it remain so. You never let us forget that you like having cats run over by cars. In British-ese they refer to guys like you as a bit "thick", right? Professor explained on 07/07/2007 : >> "Baldoni @googlemail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nil> wrote in >> message news:mn.3b307d7744f5d63b.74922@googlemail.co [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > You never let us forget that you like having cats run over by cars. > In British-ese they refer to guys like you as a bit "thick", right? Nobody likes having there cats run over by cars. The same as nobody likes having their dogs run over by cars. In some parts of the UK it is quite normal for sheep to roam along the side of the road and cross it. I picked a cat up last year that had been run over and the owner was in a lot of distress. I did not check to see if he had been castrated but that is a big help to stop them roaming. It is something that can be argued about all week but when cats decided they were going to hang out with humans I doubt they were hoping to be incarcerated. A lot of people would argue that it is cruel to keep them indoors all the time. SignatureCount Baldoni > Professor explained on 07/07/2007 : >>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > incarcerated. A lot of people would argue that it is cruel to keep them > indoors all the time. getting your pet fixed will stop the roaming. missy is fixed, she's happy just laying by the open patio door. missy will venture out from time to time but shes never very far from home. to argue about letting a cat out or not, lock yourself up in your house for a week and watch the world go by through a window. >> Professor explained on 07/07/2007 : >>>> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > to argue about letting a cat out or not, lock yourself up in your house > for a week and watch the world go by through a window. This is true.....My "fixed" cats seldom venture off the property line. It is only the unfixed male feral cat that travels, and he only goes a block and a half away.....I do expect him to get run down one of these days, however. But he is already over 6 years old, so he has outlived most feral cats already. > Professor explained on 07/07/2007 : >>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > incarcerated. A lot of people would argue that it is cruel to keep them > indoors all the time. The residential speed limit here is 25 mph. If people obeyed it, the number of cats that are run down would drop to almost nothing. The reason most cats are run down by cars is because of teenage-minded people who drive their two ton SUV's at 40 mph plus in residential areas. >> Professor explained on 07/07/2007 : >>>> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > most cats are run down by cars is because of teenage-minded people who > drive their two ton SUV's at 40 mph plus in residential areas. The "me" generation will drive anywhere anyway anytime they please, a result of over 40 years of liberal left politically correct thinking in America. >>> Professor explained on 07/07/2007 : >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > result > of over 40 years of liberal left politically correct thinking in America. Well, I wouldn't blame speeding on the liberals, although their predilection to make unenforceable laws breeds disrespect for the law, which does lead to disobeying the rules of the road among other things........I prefer a society with just a few well enforced laws. > > "Baldoni @googlemail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nil> wrote in > > message news:mn.3b307d7744f5d63b.74922@googlemail.co [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > over by cars. In British-ese they refer to guys like you > as a bit "thick", right? Who said I like cats run over by cars..? I've had cats all my life (I'm 52) and none of them have ever been run over, hit or otherwise injured as a result of being outdoors. It all depends where you live. What I *don't* like is keeping a naturally outdoor animal a prisoner. But we've had this "discussion" before. Ivor >> > "Baldoni @googlemail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nil> wrote in >> > message news:mn.3b307d7744f5d63b.74922@googlemail.co [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Ivor Yes. It is a peculiarly liberal position. (keeping cats locked up indoors to preserve their life) Liberals think that living a long life trumps everything else....They love what I call, "padded cell laws", that have the preservation of life their prime purpose. Motorcycle helmet laws are a prime example.....And seat belt laws, too. Their argument is that my life doesn't belong to me, but to the state.....They would like everything to, "belong to the state". I would like to grab them by the collar, and shake them and say, "Everybody, and everything dies sooner or later. Some of us just want to enjoy the few years we have here while we are still alive. Now, why don't you want to give us that right?" >>> > "Baldoni @googlemail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nil> wrote in >>> > message news:mn.3b307d7744f5d63b.74922@googlemail.co [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > just want to enjoy the few years we have here while we are still alive. > Now, why don't you want to give us that right?" Liberal leftists worship the state, government, more government, and bigger government and higher taxes to support even more and bigger government. "Hello, I'm from the government, and I am here to help you." >> > "Baldoni @googlemail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nil> wrote in >> > message news:mn.3b307d7744f5d63b.74922@googlemail.co [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Ivor I.E. Yes, you are a bit thick. Thousands of cats are killed on England's motorways yearly, but you don't seem to give a toss. I can't fathom how keeping cats safe indoors is somehow against their better interests. Does dementia run in your family? > >> > "Baldoni @googlemail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nil> wrote in > >> > messagenews:mn.3b307d7744f5d63b.74922@googlemail.co [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > - Show quoted text - because keeping them captive indoors is against their nature you dumbo Professor used his keyboard to write : >>> > "Baldoni @googlemail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nil> wrote in >>> > message news:mn.3b307d7744f5d63b.74922@googlemail.co [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > keeping cats safe indoors is somehow against their better interests. Does > dementia run in your family? I have never seen a cat on a motorway in my life, and I have spent a lot of time driving on them. They are too damn noisy for one thing. SignatureCount Baldoni "Baldoni @googlemail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nil> wrote in message > > I have never seen a cat on a motorway in my life, and I have spent a lot > of time driving on them. > > They are too damn noisy for one thing. Cats don't like motorways, but they sometimes have to cross them in order to get where they are going....If the speed limit is 25 mph or less, the cats seldom have any problem with this.....It's when the teenagers are doing 40 in a 25 zone that the problems occur. Cats can't conceive of anything that goes that fast, and don't know how to avoid it...... William Graham used his keyboard to write : > "Baldoni @googlemail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nil> wrote in message > >> I have never seen a cat on a motorway in my life, and I have spent a lot of [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > a 25 zone that the problems occur. Cats can't conceive of anything that goes > that fast, and don't know how to avoid it...... I think we may use the same word for a different meaning as is common with the English spoken in the UK and in America. Our motorways are similar to a freeway or turnpike. The maximum speed limit is 70mph though many go faster and the slowest anyone goes is about 50mph which is considered way to slow. The cat must have some important business if it wants to go across there. I tried once in the evening and it was hard work. :-) SignatureCount Baldoni > William Graham used his keyboard to write : >> "Baldoni @googlemail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nil> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > The cat must have some important business if it wants to go across there. > I tried once in the evening and it was hard work. :-) Yes....If I lived less than a quarter mile or so from such a road, I wouldn't own any cats....When I retired and moved up here to Oregon, I was careful to pick a house that was, "feline friendly", so my cats are reasonably safe wandering around the neighborhood....It is full of children and old people who like animals. But that's why I am annoyed at people who don't observe the 25 mph residential speed limit........ >>> > "Baldoni @googlemail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nil> wrote in >>> > message news:mn.3b307d7744f5d63b.74922@googlemail.co [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > keeping cats safe indoors is somehow against their better interests. Does > dementia run in your family? This depends entirely on the nature of the area where you live....Keeping my four cats indoors would be just as ridiculous as you seem to think keeping them outside is in your area....You have to learn to put yourself in the shoes of other people. Not everyone lives in as heavily populated and traveled area as you seem to live. I live on a dead end street that is backed up by a Christmas tree farm that is over 40 acres large. The chances of any of my cats getting run down by cars is virtually nil. On the other hand, I used to live in an apartment in downtown San Francisco. I didn't have a cat then, but if I had, I would have kept it inside, (which is probably why I didn't have one) My cousin used to live on a grape farm. She and her husband were half owners of Souverign winery. She kept four "working cats". Their job was to keep birds away from the grapes. She didn't feed them, but only gave them water to drink....They were lean and mean, too....... >> "Baldoni @googlemail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nil> wrote in >> message news:mn.3b307d7744f5d63b.74922@googlemail.co [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > You never let us forget that you like having cats run over by cars. > In British-ese they refer to guys like you as a bit "thick", right? You probably have him mixed up with me. - I am the one who "likes having cats run over by cars". (in your simpleton's mind.) The only real difference is that I know that it isn't the cats fault....When cats are run down by cars, I know that the fault belongs to the cars, and not the cats. > "Baldoni @googlemail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nil> wrote in > message news:mn.3b307d7744f5d63b.74922@googlemail.co [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Ivor When Adlai Stevenson was a NYC judge, he wrote a beautiful paragraph in a decision to disallow a cat leash law....I wish I could find it, but I haven't been able to. >I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. That used to be my position ... until I got three that I can't tell apart, and apart form a fourth, at any distance without color-coded collars. I use 1/2 inch elastic with the ends stapled together and colored with permanent markers. The two that are most similar lose them frequently, so something cheap is necessary. SignatureT.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu) Remove "gearbox.maem" to get real address - that one is dead >>I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > colored with permanent markers. The two that are most similar lose > them frequently, so something cheap is necessary. They make "break-free" collars that will separate if the cat catches it on a fence or something. I use these....The only cat I have that can't keep one on is the feral cat.....He loses his after only a few days. >They make "break-free" collars that will separate if the cat catches it on a >fence or something. I use these....The only cat I have that can't keep one >on is the feral cat.....He loses his after only a few days. I can buy a *lot* on elastic and markers for what *one* commercial breakaway collar costs. They lose about one a month. SignatureT.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu) Remove "gearbox.maem" to get real address - that one is dead >>They make "break-free" collars that will separate if the cat catches it on >>a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I can buy a *lot* on elastic and markers for what *one* commercial > breakaway collar costs. They lose about one a month. Yeah....If I wanted to keep using collars on the feral male, I would probably use an elastic band, but the breakaway collar I did use did it's job....The other family in the neighborhood that was feeding him telephoned me, so I know who they are, and where he was going. (they have a hot tub, so he liked to sleep there on its cover) Now, it doesn't make any difference, so he goes collarless...... >I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. > > http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/control-pet-cats/ > > Saying that the people in the UK are watched and spied upon by Govt > agencies, who knows what is next. Camera's in trees ! Any country that has nothing better to do than catch cats to make sure they have collars with one or more regulation bells on them deserves to die a natural death and be taken over by some country whose management has better things to do....GB is no exception......... on 07/07/2007, William Graham supposed : >>I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > natural death and be taken over by some country whose management has better > things to do....GB is no exception......... I have always wished that Switzerland would invade but it ain't going to happen. The authorities are looking in peoples refuse bins to check there are no items that should be re-cycled in there. For all the camera's they can't police the streets properly never mind spy on cats doing their business in the vegetable plots and borders. Mark my words there will be some act or law within the European Courts that will give the cat its basic right to go to toilet in privacy. SignatureCount Baldoni > on 07/07/2007, William Graham supposed : >>>I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Mark my words there will be some act or law within the European Courts > that will give the cat its basic right to go to toilet in privacy. Sounds like you guys are suffering from, "liberalmania". I know that we are suffering from it here, but our case hasn't progressed quite as far as yours......:^) I do keep a sharp eye on what happens over there so I'll know the prognosis of the disease...... >> on 07/07/2007, William Graham supposed : >>>>I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > yours......:^) I do keep a sharp eye on what happens over there so I'll > know the prognosis of the disease...... George Sorros & Co. have a dream to turn America into the same secular liberal mess that Europe is in, a place where animals have more rights than a human being. >>I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > die a natural death and be taken over by some country whose management has > better things to do....GB is no exception......... Think of all the employees on the government payroll that it takes to enforce such nonsense. Why do you think the elitist liberal Al Gore dreamed up the Junk Science of "Global Warming"? >>>I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > such nonsense. Why do you think the elitist liberal Al Gore dreamed up > the Junk Science of "Global Warming"? These are, "limousine liberals", like Barbara Streisand, Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie......They are always looking down on people who shop at Wall-Mart. (They can afford to buy their veggies at Tiffanies) Or, as G. Gordon Libby says, they want to save all the poor, downtrodden people of the world using my money to do it with........I call them Robin-hooders. They never saw a tax they didn't love, and they want to steal my money and give it to the poor. They assume everyone who is rich got their money as easily as they got theirs.....It never occurs to them that some of us worked and saved for 40 years in order to get enough money to retire on..........And we didn't get it by climbing up the backs of the poor. >>>>I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > worked and saved for 40 years in order to get enough money to retire > on..........And we didn't get it by climbing up the backs of the poor. John Edwards is conducting a presidential campaign that is driven by "Two Americas," one rich & one poor. Of course, this is a classic liberal Democrat campaign based on class warfare. The hypocrisy is that Edwards routinely treats himself to $400 haircuts and owns several mansions. Moreover, he got his wealth by putting good doctors out of business with junk lawsuits. >>>>>I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > several mansions. Moreover, he got his wealth by putting good > doctors out of business with junk lawsuits. According to his barber, the cut was more like $1200.....But that's beside the point....I could care less. If that's the way he wants to spend his money, then that's his business. I just don't like him wanting to steal my money away from me and give it to his charitable institutions. I can do that very well myself, thanks. In the final analysis, Robin Hood was no more than a thief. The fact that he gave his stolen money to his favorite charity doesn't make him any the less a thief. When I was young my father told me to save 10% of everything I earned, and I would always be independent and comfortable. So I did, and I was able to retire a millionaire (or close to it) at 61. Now, people like Ralph Nadir and Hillary and John Edwards want to steal my money away from me and give it to the grasshoppers who laughed at the ants and fiddled away all Summer. They are now talking about universal health care....Why do I pay over $700 a month for my (and my family's) health care? Why would I want my government to steal my tax dollars and buy health care for the grasshoppers? My father would be rolling over in his grave if he knew. Should I go to where he is buried and say, "You were wrong dad. I should have spent every cent I ever earned on fast cars and booze and women, because today the grasshoppers are at the door, and when I opened it a crack Hillary stuck her foot in it and is making me pay for them! Nadir wants all my estate to revert to the government when I die......He doesn't want me to leave any of it for my children....But those children were the ones who had to go with less because I was saving that 10% of my salary while they were growing up. They had to do without those designer Jeans that the other kids were wearing, and they had to ride around in my 10 year old jalopy while their classmates were riding in new Porsches and MB's. Now, when I die, they are the ones who deserve to inherit the balance of my estate, and not the government, who will blow it away on trips to the moon and other boondoggles. But I don't know how to tell Ralph Nadir this.....I don't get the chance to talk to the likes of him. And. when I see him on TV, the other people who talk to him don't say what I want to say to him. I am sick of standing up in the middle of my living room floor and screaming at the TV.....(My wife is pretty sick of it too.....:^) >>>I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > such nonsense. Why do you think the elitist liberal Al Gore dreamed up > the Junk Science of "Global Warming"? Yeah.....He's big on science, but he's never heard of the, Paleocene-Eocene thermal maximum, that occurred some 55 million years ago....(Long before there were any human beings on the earth, much less driving automobiles) > "Baldoni @googlemail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nil> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > natural death and be taken over by some country whose management has better > things to do....GB is no exception......... believe me, we the british public also think this is a pile of crap so it won't go through, you will probably find it is something to dow ith the EU forcing some sort of unenforceable and pointless ruling onto us, the EU is usually the cause of idiotic things like this >> "Baldoni @googlemail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nil> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > the EU forcing some sort of unenforceable and pointless ruling onto > us, the EU is usually the cause of idiotic things like this Americans should be paying attention, but we are not. The North American Union (NAU) is just around the corner. NAU is *not* Republican or Democrat. Political elites from both sides of the political spectrum support forming the NAU. Bush and Hillary both support formation of the NAU. It was common Americans who recently fought down the latest immigration bill. Political elites from *both* parties support amnesty for the 20 million (and growing) illegal Mexican immigrants now in the United States. Formation of the NAU will make them all *legal* citizens of the NAU overnight. Hablo Espanol? >>> "Baldoni @googlemail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nil> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > United States. Formation of the NAU will make them all *legal* > citizens of the NAU overnight. Hablo Espanol? 3/4 of the American people don't want to give amnesty to the illegal aliens....They want to build a wall on the border that keeps them out. Letting them in is still against the law, and we don't want to change that.....I think our leaders are finally getting that fact through their thick heads. We don't want any new "softer" laws....We like the law we have now, and we just want it enforced. There is a quota of aliens that we allow to come here, and we just want the aliens to respect that number and come here legally. >> "Baldoni @googlemail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nil> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >the EU forcing some sort of unenforceable and pointless ruling onto >us, the EU is usually the cause of idiotic things like this This site is nothing more than a Government PR exercise which will change nothing. Anyone can enter a petition about anything on there, with the Government supposedly takes notice of. Recently there was one against road pricing that a couple of million people signed, I believe. A few days after the petition closed the Government announced it was pressing ahead with road pricing trials. SignatureSean Black >>> "Baldoni @googlemail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nil> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > people signed, I believe. A few days after the petition closed the > Government announced it was pressing ahead with road pricing trials. If by, "road pricing" you mean stopping autos and collecting money from the drivers, then it is a real PIA.....We do that on selected roads here on the East coast. - A very inefficient process. Obviously, the best way to pay for things like that is through gasoline taxes. When millions of cars have to come to a stop and re-accelerate back up to speed every year, much gasoline is just being thrown away...... >>>> "Baldoni @googlemail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nil> wrote in message >>>> [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >come to a stop and re-accelerate back up to speed every year, much gasoline >is just being thrown away...... Nope, what they have in mind is fitting a "black box" to every car, tracking when and where it goes and charging per mile, at varying rates (depending on type of road/time of day etc...) and billing you. A few pence a mile for smaller roads at off-peak times, rising to (I've heard) £1.34 (something over $2) per mile on motorways at peak times. Leaving aside the whole Big Brother aspect of having all your movements tracked, if they bring that in at those sort of prices, there'll be plenty of people that wouldn't be able to afford to go to work, even if they wanted to (me included). SignatureSean Black >>>>> "Baldoni @googlemail.com>" <baldoniXXV<nil> wrote in message >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > of people that wouldn't be able to afford to go to work, even if they > wanted to (me included). Taxes on gasoline do the same thing, and much more easily....Besides, they encourage driving vehicles that get better mileage, too......The smaller and lighter and more efficient your vehicle, the less you have to pay, and this is as it should be, because the less wear and tear on the roads, and the less pollution you emit into the air, too. Why mess with a system as good as this? Here in the US, people are still driving their huge SUV's around, but then gasoline is still very cheap. It was 20 cents a gallon back in 1950, and now, some 50 years later, when it should be over $5.00 a gallon, it is still only $3.00 a gallon....So, people are complaining about nothing........ [snip] > > Nope, what they have in mind is fitting a "black box" > > to every car, tracking when and where it goes and [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > a gallon....So, people are complaining about > nothing........ Come over here to the UK, it *is* over $5 a gallon, *well* over. Plus we get taxed twice over; once on fuel (current levels approaching £1.00/litre) and once more on "road tax" discs of up to £160/year (depending on emission levels). Now they want to tax us yet again per mile driven. (Anyone who thinks that after they've imposed road pricing they'll remove either or both of the other taxes is sadly misguided...) Ivor > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Ivor Yes....That's because GB is basically a socialist state....Be thankful that the government doesn't take all of your money away and dribble back the food, clothing, and housing that they think you should have.....It seems that Robin Hood has become the national norm.... Not that I am gloating, or anything like that...We are fast becoming the same....Hillary would nationalize all the doctors and other health personnel and make it a state owned and run industry....Then you will be able to choose any doctor you want as long as his name is, "---- ----", and go to any hospital you want as long as it's "Hillary General".....:^) >> [snip] >> [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > able to choose any doctor you want as long as his name is, "---- ----", > and go to any hospital you want as long as it's "Hillary General".....:^) And, if you are a republican capitalist like me, they would come out to the waiting room and tell my wife...."I'm sorry, but your husband didn't survive the operation....." >> [snip] >> [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > able to choose any doctor you want as long as his name is, "---- ----", > and go to any hospital you want as long as it's "Hillary General".....:^) Worse yet, Hillary learned from her mistakes 14 years ago, when she failed to impose Hillary-Care on the country. This time around it will be much more difficult to derail her plans for socialized medicine in America. When the hell is Fred Thompson going to throw his hat in the ring? Better yet, American needs Zell Miller to come down out of the north Georgia mountains and quit fishing his last days away. America needs the old Georgia marine to fight one more battle for his country. "If you don't give our boys the equipment and support they need to fight, what do you expect for them to do, throw spitballs at the enemy"? - U.S. Senator Zell Miller's reply to the neo-liberal leftists of CNN when they questioned the military budget. > >> [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I have to say that I really don't like hillary clinton and I am glad that she is over there with you and not over here in england and on our tv constantly. Nothing to do with her politics or anything like that it is just that she is an absolute minger, surpassed only by her even uglier daughter in utter vileness. why does she always have an expression on her face as though she is being electrocuted or possibly even taken up the arse from behind? she is probably a very lovely woman, a wonderful mother and a highly intelligent member of society but she is just so f.cking ugly, thats all. and before anyone has a go about this, remember that we in britain have also suffered; margaret beckett, we know your pain bookie "bookie" <emily_booker@hotmail.com> wrote in message I have to say that I really don't like hillary clinton and I am glad that she is over there with you and not over here in england and on our tv constantly. .... I always have this love-hate relationship with the Democratic candidates just before the election.....I am a devout Republican, so I would choose almost any Republican over any Democrat. So, I don't know whether to route for the worst democrat I can find, hoping they will get their parties nomination, and then be soundly trounced by the Republican in the general election, or route for the best person in both parties, hoping to maximize my chances of getting a reasonable president regardless of which party wins......In the past, I have even been known to register Democratic, just so I could vote for their least likely to win candidate in the primaries, thereby giving my real choice (the Republican) a better chance of winning in the general election. > "bookie" <emily_boo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > thereby giving my real choice (the Republican) a better chance of winning in > the general election. I have no idea what you are on about, i just think hillary clinton is a minger > I have no idea what you are on about, i just think hillary clinton is a > minger Some women think she's hot... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Sudw4ghVe8 Charlie > > "William Graham" <w...@comcast.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Not to mention Cherrie Blair, lol Now that did give the rags & Sunday mags a field day, didn't it? PS: does everyone understand what a minger is here? sheelagh > > > "William Graham" <w...@comcast.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] > > - Show quoted text - oh yeah i forgot about cherie blair, the woman with a mouth like a letterbox, she's grim too and very dumpy > > > > "William Graham" <w...@comcast.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] > > - Show quoted text - ROFLOL... Dunno why though, cuz for all her ugly features, she is more intelligent than I am & far richer too sheelagh > > > > > "William Graham" <w...@comcast.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 103 lines] > > - Show quoted text - you don't know that is she is more intelligent than you are, she had a fairly priviledged upbringing and was able to go to a proper school, university etc and had a lot of things and opportunities you did not, that is why she is where she is (a QC, married to the ex-PM, and minted). that is not a sign that she is intelligent, just lucky. You taught yourself to read and write at a very late age and have come a long way after suffering some serious educational privation early on in life when learning such skills is fairly crucial so considering what you have been without (literacy) and what you have subsequently achieved I think it is you who is possibly the more intelligent. And I am always right about everything so don't argue with me on this one. and she is still ugly and she has no cats, so in the grand scheme of things i think she is the one who has less. bookie (who is currently nursing some serious scratch wounds after giving jessie a damn good combing) > > > > > > "William Graham" <w...@comcast.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 122 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I'll take that as a compliment, Lol;o) I have to admit that it isn't easy, & I certainly didn't advertise the fact until I had a basic command over writing basic things and reading the newspaper. I bet you would never guess how many people can't read & write you know! Most hide it by listening to the news, then buying the newspaper & looking at the pictures. Very slowly (in my case), you learn to read the basics, then guesswork comes into play. I would imagine it took me around 3years in total. I wouldn't wish it upon anybody though. It is a humiliating thing to have to ask your kids to read out their school letters. Also, a lot of the credit lies with my daughter, Kt, who encouraged me when I wanted to give up & never gave up on me either.... Cherie Blair is a street smart , for want of a better way of finding a word you can't quite reach. (yes, I do use a thesaurus.. I just haven't got one handy Lol :o) She has the gift of the gab shall we say? Who else do you know of who gets free holidays by borrowing Richard Bran sons house for a week or two? Set up a fund for underprivileged children, then spent most of the proceeds on paying her own fee for doing it for them. Charity definately begins @ home for this clever lady.. She knows every hook around the laws & uses them to full advantage. I don't know whether to admire her for her ingenuity, or condemn her for her barely law abiding standards double standards. I wonder if she is still best friends with the bertaconi's? ( sorry for wrong spelling- the ex prime minister of Italy, before the big scoops landed)... Very streetwise indeed! Sheelagh >> [snip] >> [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >food, clothing, and housing that they think you should have.....It seems >that Robin Hood has become the national norm.... It's certainly heading that way, don't worry about that. Just about every day you look in the paper they're finding something else to tax :-( If I could afford to, I'd sell up and move abroad like a shot. SignatureSean Black > Taxes on gasoline do the same thing, and much more > easily....Besides, they encourage driving vehicles that get [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > $5.00 a gallon, it is still only $3.00 a gallon....So, people > are complaining about nothing........ My comment about driving bigger vehicles now is because there are so many of them, if you drive a small car and get smashed into, you're toast. I went from a small pickup truck to a big pickup truck and noticed that people acually think twice about pulling in front of you when they can see you in their mirror (if they care to look). I drive the Capital Beltway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_Beltway) every day and I would never drive a small economy car. SignatureCheryl >> Taxes on gasoline do the same thing, and much more >> easily....Besides, they encourage driving vehicles that get [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_Beltway) every day and I > would never drive a small economy car. You should drive whatever you want within your budget.....I have never liked big cars....I owned an MG-A in my youth, and it was the nicest, best handling car I ever drove....The Brits made lots of nice sports cars in those days, but the unions ruined most of those firms, and today, the only British cars that have survived are the "boats" like we have here in the US. - If I buy a new car today, it will probably be a Miata. I remember the Jaguar XK-E....What a beautiful machine! I was going to buy one when I got enough money....But by the time I had the money they were discontinued........The Lotus Elite was another one....Just like my MG-A, but all leather and with a powerful engine....Again, gone by the time I could afford one. Today, all I can buy are boats like the Queen Mary....With whistles that you have to blow 4 times whenever you pull away from the curb....:^) > I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > -- > Count Baldoni what a load of bollocks! I too would never oput a collar on a cat, I think it is unnecessary and utterly inhumane to put something like that on any animal, trying to mark out another animal as something we 'own' when i believe that no animal onthis earth has to right to think it 'owns' any other, utterly despicable practise. it won't go through anyway, and the concept behind it woudl contradict the ruling that a cat 'owner' cannot be held responsible for the actions of said cat if it enters a neighbours property and/or damages that property as the cat is a semi-wild creature which cannot be controlled inthe same manner as a dog can. If this is accepted then the proposal that cats must wear collars on order for the owners to control their behaviour is absurd. for the reasons I ahve put above and those stated by sheelagh i abhor collars on cats and i will never put one on a cat who lives with me bookie >> I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > bookie I wouldn't put a collar on Buddy because I tried once when he was a kitty and even though it was a breakaway I found him hopping around with his leg stuck in it. I prefer cats over birds so I could care less if he eats birds. With cat populations out of control perhaps this issue should be taken more seriously though- I'm not an expert on the population of birds or other wildlife so I don't know. It doesn't sound likely to me that cats will be threatening wildlife populations any more than people already have but I could be wrong. As far as the issue with cats being "prisoners" is concerned, Buddy's an indoor cat and luckily he is scared of the outdoors. I've carried him into the common area of my apartment building before and he freaks out- shakes, starts to shed, burrows his head into my armpit and if the door to the apartment is still open he will eventually thrash his way out of my arms and run back in (one of the few times I actually feel his claws). Keeping an animal indoors that grew up outdoors seems wrong but letting an animal outdoors after raising it indoors sounds dangerous to me. I guess in the end it comes down to answers to questions like "is a cat less happy/more depressed when it is not allowed outdoors?" ... in my cat's case I don't feel guilty. >>> I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. >>> [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > happy/more depressed when it is not allowed outdoors?" ... in my cat's > case I don't feel guilty. One of my four cats, "Junie" was raised as an indoor cat. We got her when her original owner died, and she was nine years old......She was overjoyed when we showed her how to use the cat door, and she first realized that she could go outside whenever she pleased just like the other three cats. But she never leaves the property.....As a matter of fact, the only cat that does leave the property is the unfixed male feral cat, and he only goes a block and a half away to his other "family" who has a hot tub for him to sleep on....If you feed cats regularly, they stick pretty close.....Catching food is a major undertaking for any wild animal..... > > I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > bookie Here, Here. There is nothing like watching a vet with a scalpel trying to separate a collar from the cats neck, because it was leather, too small & the cats flesh growing over it. Asphyxia is a terrible way to die, & would most certainly happened to Lucy(fur!) had it now been removed when it was. Having said that, what I should have said was, either die from the infection the ill fitting collar caused, or asphyxiated!! Whilst I understand reasons stated for a cat being allowed to wear a collar, I don't necessarily agree with them. If you have an indoor cat, why would your cat need a collar? And, If you allow your cat out, then why not chip your cat instead. It is easily defined when read by a chip reader. The argument about hunting birds is moot. Cats hunt. It is in their instinct to hunt, & I honestly don't think that it would make any difference to birds, unless every single cat were made to wear them..which in itself is unworkable because cats are abandoned, not cared for by some owners. Also, who would take the responsibility for the feral cat population? Unless the powers that be, decided to have a mass cull which would cause a public uproar. For the reasons I have outlined I see this as unworkable & unfeasible too Whatever anyone says about using safety collars, really does need to see the consequences of what a collar can do to a cat or kitten, before making a judgment on whether it is the right thing to do, or not as the case might be. If one were to argue that it marks ownership & The address of whom the cat belongs to- Chip your cat. Simple really! I think that I could agree to chipping a cat, however, culpability for the cats actions is another issue entirely. You can't possibly make he owner responsible for the cats actions. As stated, it is a semi wild creature. The next thing we will hear is that there is going to be a Hedge Hog tax. utterly ridiculous!! Sheelagh >> > I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. >> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >tax. utterly ridiculous!! >Sheelagh Not getting into the inside-outside debate - just my 2 cents input re collars. Even inside cats sometimes escape - my cats ARE microchipped, but so what - if a cat escapes & is loose on the streets, do you really think each person out there who might pick up a cute free-roaming cat "just because it's loose" is going to take the cat to a vet to check for a chip? I don't think so. An elastic cat break-away collar (with at least 2-3 fingers width of space between collar & skin) with address and/or tel number gives the furball a better chance of being returned to its owner. Yes, my cats have got out from time to time, depending who was here & how careful they were when opening or closing the door. Not fun looking for a cat in the dead of winter at night which happened to us several months ago. M. >> > I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. >> [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > tax. utterly ridiculous!! > Sheelagh So what exactly is your take on safety collars? I can understand non-break away collars being a danger for any animal but what about the break-away collars? Are you suggesting that they malfunction and do not break-away?? Are some brands better than others? I think this is an issue to take up with the manufacturers of the collars if so. I tried looking for information on the web using search terms such as collar, cat, danger, hazards, and so on but I kept finding the same thing: references to collars with bells to make it more difficult for cats to kill and references to using safety-collars instead of the alternative. >> I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >'own' when i believe that no animal onthis earth has to right to think >it 'owns' any other, utterly despicable practise. The reason my two cats have collars, is because besides a name tag with our phone number, should either of them get lost or hurt, they have a magnetic key to allow them (and not every other cat in the neighbourhood) entry through the cat flap, allowing them to come and go if they please. Nothing to do with marking ownership. SignatureSean Black > In message <1183859312.606906.75...@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, > bookie <emily_boo...@hotmail.com> writes [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > - Show quoted text - my cats don't go far enough to warrant a collar anyway. it is a gorgeous day here right now, first rain free sunny day we have had for weeks and where are my 2 girls? yup, one is stretched out onthe end of my bed snoozing, and the other is fast asleep onthe sofa downstairs, neither has any desire to go outside and enjoy the sun even though the back door is wide open for them. i feel like being my own mother and telling them to 'get yourselves outside in the fresh air and get some sun and exercise!' but the views of jessei flopped out nothe end of my bed behind me , mouth slightly open , one paw over her pink nose, is too cute to disturb >> In message <1183859312.606906.75...@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, >> bookie <emily_boo...@hotmail.com> writes [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > of jessei flopped out nothe end of my bed behind me , mouth slightly > open , one paw over her pink nose, is too cute to disturb It's a good thing cats are such cute animals....If they weren't, few would be able to stand their obnoxious personalities, and there would be millions less of them kept as pets.....:^) > It's a good thing cats are such cute animals....If they weren't, few would > be able to stand their obnoxious personalities, and there would be > millions less of them kept as pets.....:^) You are such a moron. >>> I would never let any of my cats wear a collar. >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > entry through the cat flap, allowing them to come and go if they please. > Nothing to do with marking ownership. An excellent idea! - I don't believe such a device is for sale here in the US....I could use it, (If my feral male could keep a collar on) so the raccoons wouldn't be able to come in the house....Right now, I have to depend on my, "watch cats" to prevent that....... Here we go again another newbie starts a thread. Someone says keep your cats in or out and this BS debate of inside or out starts again. And all of you jump on the band wagon it is getting pretty pathetic that you all do this. And now with the cross posting it gets even worse. Would you all get over it People over seas have a different view point you will never change it. People here have a different view point you will never change it. You can't debate or even discuss it rational as past threads and this one have proven time and time again. You all ended up acting like how do the British say it a bunch of tossers. Matthew put a quarter in the slot and goes: > Here we go again another newbie starts a thread. Someone says keep your > cats in or out and this BS debate of inside or out starts again. And all of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > threads and this one have proven time and time again. You all ended up > acting like how do the British say it a bunch of tossers. <floor opens up, matt drops through, floor closes back> > Here we go again another newbie starts a thread. Someone says keep your > cats in or out and this BS debate of inside or out starts again. And all of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > threads and this one have proven time and time again. You all ended up > acting like how do the British say it a bunch of tossers. You all ended up > acting like how do the British say it a bunch of tossers. A bunch of tosser's Matthew;o) Sheelagh >> Here we go again another newbie starts a thread. Someone says keep your >> cats in or out and this BS debate of inside or out starts again. And all [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > A bunch of tosser's Matthew;o) > Sheelagh Only thing that I could come up with that could describe them ;-) "sheelagh" <sheelagh_madden@hotmail.co.uk> > Specially Barry > "sheelagh" <sheelagh_mad...@hotmail.co.uk> > > > Specially Barry what's that Matt? lmao dude, you don't even have a leg to stand on would be a big shame getting caught cruising wouldn't it? what about Marcie next door, I heard she's got a little kit with WHIPS in it just put the safari hat away, go find something good on the tube, Paris Trout, (Dennis Hopper) is sexually abusing a brunette on cable tv. The movie takes place back in the sweaty days. >> "sheelagh" <sheelagh_mad...@hotmail.co.uk> > >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Paris Trout, (Dennis Hopper) is sexually abusing a brunette on cable > tv. The movie takes place back in the sweaty days. Dude you must be on some good stuff to come up with that bunch of mumble jumble > > Here we go again another newbie starts a thread. Someone says keep your > > cats in or out and this BS debate of inside or out starts again. And all of [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > A bunch of tosser's Matthew;o) > Sheelagh actually that should be tossers not tosser's, the former is the plural form of the singular 'tosser' and the other is talking about something or someone who belongs to a tosser or that the tosser is doing ie the tosser's going on about cats again, or the tosser's pants are on fire. lots of people get the position of the apostrophe incorrect and end up writing something completely different from what they meant to write. bit like the there/their/they're thing which i explained before when get them mixed up all the time personally for this scenario i would choose the term 'w.nkers' 'twats' 'a-holes' or 'prats', maybe even 'plonkers', they are all interchangeable bookie > > > Here we go again another newbie starts a thread. Someone says keep your > > > cats in or out and this BS debate of inside or out starts again. And all of [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > - Show quoted text - oh bollocks i meant to reply only to sheelagh not the whole group, what an idiot. now for all those who are unfamiliar with the term 'plomker' then that is what i am being right now. sorry it 's been a long day > > > > Here we go again another newbie starts a thread. Someone says keep your > > > > cats in or out and this BS debate of inside or out starts again. And all of [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > - Show quoted text - > oh bollocks i meant to reply only to sheelagh not the whole group, > what an idiot. No worries Bookie, lol. I am not ashamed about being illiterate for the better part of 30 years. It wasn't my choosing & to be perfectly honest, I'm quite proud of myself actually. I got over that hang up a Long time ago ;o) I don't mind people explaining where I have made an error, especially if they correct me with constructive criticism, & also explain where I went wrong & why too. We all make mistakes.. Me more than most. Anyway, how am I supposed to learn if people like you don't point out these errors to me including how & where I went wrong? It all helps. if you go back to my first post on here & compare it with today's measly offerings, I think that you will note a marked difference..well, I think so, put it that way.... the grammar is still in dire need of acute attention- But I get by. Thanx, Sheelagh > > > Here we go again another newbie starts a thread. Someone says keep your > > > cats in or out and this BS debate of inside or out starts again. And all of [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > bookie It's fine, post it here and save sheelagh a step > Here we go again another newbie starts a thread. Someone says keep your > cats in or out and this BS debate of inside or out starts again. And all [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > past threads and this one have proven time and time again. You all ended > up acting like how do the British say it a bunch of tossers. Free, Open, and Robust discussion is the basis of a free society. Why do you think the neo-liberal fascists want to shut down talk radio in the United States? Global warming My a.s! More like Junk Science. > > Here we go again another newbie starts a thread. Someone says keep your > > cats in or out and this BS debate of inside or out starts again. And all [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Global warming My a.s! More like Junk Science. nothing wrong with it, just that we ahve all been there with the 'cats in or out' debate and are all fairly bored of it now. if a new bunch of people want to go at it while the rest fo us look in, thats fine. i just think that noone from the last string abot this one shoud be allowed to post on it, only new people, as the oldies would have an unfair advantage of experience or something from the last bit of argy- bargy >> Here we go again another newbie starts a thread. Someone says keep your >> cats in or out and this BS debate of inside or out starts again. And all [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Global warming My a.s! More like Junk Science. Someone needs their meds refilled >>> Here we go again another newbie starts a thread. Someone says keep >>> your cats in or out and this BS debate of inside or out starts again. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Someone needs their meds refilled HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA > HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA looks like dental work somehow and > Here we go again another newbie starts a thread. Someone says keep your > cats in or out and this BS debate of inside or out starts again. And all of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > threads and this one have proven time and time again. You all ended up > acting like how do the British say it a bunch of tossers. i didn't say a word about that! just about putting collars on cats, which i am opposed to fro several reasons, but i am sure someone will argue against me about it. i can't be arsed with getting into that tedious debate again; I am never going to change your mind and you are never to change mine no matter much we rant on, so we have to agree to disagree. i wish my jessie's cat bed was big enough for me to climb into with her and snuggle up, or mayeb that I was small enough to get in there with her. she is lovely and I love her btw, did I ever tell you all that? bookie >> Would you all get over it People over seas have a different view point >> you will never change it. People here have a different view point you [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > going to change your mind and you are never to change mine no matter > much we rant on, so we have to agree to disagree. Bookie, you goddamn liar, you posted about this less than 8 hours ago... "keeping them captive indoors is against their nature you dumbo" Message-ID: <1183897543.026128.275790@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> You are an outdoor cat militant. I only hope your cats don't have to pay the ultimate price for your wrong-headed view of this subject. Charlie > >> Would you all get over it People over seas have a different view point > >> you will never change it. People here have a different view point you [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Charlie you m,ake it sound like I make them live outdoors with no access to the indoors, totally incorrect, i just give them the choice and I leave the back door open whenever i am in.mostly they stay indoors where the soft cushions and the food is, sometimes they go to sunbathe outside and to check out their territory (our tiny back garden) but i like to give them the choice. i would rather they were able to go outside and exoperience a bit of nature than go stir crazy indoors. >> >> Would you all get over it People over seas have a different view >> >> point [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > i would rather they were able to go outside and exoperience a bit of > nature than go stir crazy indoors. So is anyone actually passionate enough about this subject to have compiled a list of points / counter-points from either side of the debate ? Those that have experience arguing the subject would be the ones who could actually do it and post it on the web somewhere. Maybe I'll Google for it some day. The biggest point I've seen so far is "it's natural for cats to be outside." There's a presupposition in there that I don't agree with which is that if things are not natural they are bad or wrong. I don't agree with this. I thought about a few examples of things that aren't natural but are good or things that are natural that are bad but I should give this all more thought before going on. I can see the argument boiling down to a matter of beliefs- some people will believe that we should not interfere with wildlife and nature- I'd be interested to hear how those people justify having involvement with cats in the first place and how/where exactly they draw the line on what is "ok" and what is not.... But since I'm trying to put this all together myself without the help of people more experienced with the argument I don't have much of a clue. Maybe I should Google it now. >>> >> Would you all get over it People over seas have a different view >>> >> point [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > myself without the help of people more experienced with the argument I > don't have much of a clue. Maybe I should Google it now. Yes. One should list all the hazards of being outside and weigh them against the inconvenience of trying to keep one's cat(s) inside. Cars are not the only hazard for outside cats.....They can be killed by raccoons, dogs, coyotes, and even by large birds of prey. As I say, my cats are outside cats, but they are never very far from the cat door which gets them back inside where it's safe and sound......I see little harm in letting them sun themselves on my rear deck, but then, I don't live in downtown NYC either...... >> >> Would you all get over it People over seas have a different view >> >> point [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > i would rather they were able to go outside and exoperience a bit of > nature than go stir crazy indoors. Yes, you've explained your opinion before. My point is that you are a chronic instigator on this subject, despite your protest to the contrary. Charlie > Here we go again another newbie starts a thread. Someone says keep your > cats in or out and this BS debate of inside or out starts again. And all [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > past threads and this one have proven time and time again. You all ended > up acting like how do the British say it a bunch of tossers. Your analysis of viewpoints is short-sighted- people all over the world will always have different viewpoints, NOT JUST people on different continents. You claim people's views can not be changed because past threads have become irrational? Ridiculous. Persuasion exists to attempt to change views of others. A lot of people suck at persuasion, a lot of people make it personal, it often turns into fighting, and some people can not be persuaded. This doesn't mean people should give up on it! You can not prove that one view point has never been changed as a result of these arguments. I doubt you have read every single argument about this subject on these newsgroups but maybe you have lived here for decades, I could be wrong. If I'm right then you can not prove that all these arguments have become irrational. You have no way of knowing if someone reading archives in the future will form or change their view point after reading one of these arguments. Your own actions demonstrate that you don't believe your claim that view points around the world can't be changed. You already know people jump on this bandwagon, you suspe |
Enable EMail Alerts
Start New Thread
Reply to this Message