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Cat Forum / General Topics / April 2007Rat Poison in food recalled according to local news
According to the local news there was rat poison found in some of the recalled pet foods. They did not have the specifics yet but said they would have more on the evening news.  SignatureX-Signature: Default ***************************************************** E-mail address altered to foil spam. Reply to news groups for all to see please. _ / ) (\__/) ( ( ) ( ) ) ={ }= / / ) `-------/ / ( / \ | ,'\ , ,' `-'\ ,---\ | \ _) ) `. \ / (__/ ) ) (_/ (\__/) )oo( ={ >}= ***************************************************** . > According to the local news there was rat poison found in some of the > recalled pet foods. They did not have the specifics yet but said they would [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > ={ >}= > ***************************************************** I think some of those pet food execs are going to be eating pet food themselves. Sue on, sue on, pet lovers! > > According to the local news there was rat poison found in some of the > > recalled pet foods. They did not have the specifics yet but said they would [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > I think some of those pet food execs are going to be eating pet food > themselves. Sue on, sue on, pet lovers! Bravo. > According to the local news there was rat poison found in some of the > recalled pet foods. They did not have the specifics yet but said they would > have more on the evening news. Rat poison found in now-recalled pet food ALBANY, N.Y. - Rat poison has been found in pet food blamed for the deaths of at least 16 cats and dogs, a spokeswoman for the State Department of Agriculture and Markets said Friday. Spokeswoman Jessica Chittenden would not identify the chemical or its source beyond saying it was a rodent poison. ABC News reported it was aminopterin that may have been on imported wheat used in the pet food. Aminopterin is used to kill rats in some countries but is not registered for that use in the United States, according to the Environmental Protection Agency. The chemical, also a cancer drug, is highly toxic in high doses. Officials from the agriculture department and Cornell University's Animal Health Diagnostic Center would not immediately confirm the ABC report but scheduled a news conference Friday afternoon to release laboratory findings from tests on the pet food. The Food and Drug Administration has said the investigation was focusing on wheat gluten in the food. Wheat gluten itself would not cause kidney failure, but the common ingredient could have been contaminated by heavy metals or mold toxins, the FDA said. State and FBI officials said they knew of no criminal investigations in the case. The pet deaths led to a recall of 60 million cans and pouches of pet food produced by Menu Foods and sold throughout North America under 95 brand names. There have been several reports of kidney failure in pets that ate the recalled brands, and the company has confirmed the deaths of 15 cats and one dog. Menu Foods last week recalled "cuts and gravy" style dog and cat food. The recall sparked concern among pet owners across North America. It includes food sold under store brands carried by Wal-Mart, Kroger, Safeway and other large retailers, as well as private labels such as Iams, Nutro and Eukanuba. Menu Foods is majority owned by Menu Foods Income Fund of Streetsville. The company also makes foods for zoo cats, but those products are unaffected by the recall. The company's chief executive and president said Menu Foods delayed announcing the recall until it could confirm that the animals had eaten its product before dying. Two earlier complaints from consumers whose cats had died involved animals that lived outside or had access to a garage, which left open the possibility they had been poisoned by something other than contaminated food, he said. Menu Foods planned a media teleconference for later Friday, a spokesman said. A spokesman for New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo said he was not aware of any criminal investigation involving the tainted food. FBI spokesman Paul Holstein in Albany said Friday he was not aware of any FBI involvement in the case. "I don't know where we'll go from here," he said. A complete list of the recalled products along with product codes, descriptions and production dates was posted online by Menu Foods. The company also designated two phone numbers that pet owners could call for information: (866) 463-6738 and (866) 895-2708. --- -L. > > According to the local news there was rat poison found in some of the > > recalled pet foods. They did not have the specifics yet but said they would [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > according to the Environmental Protection Agency. The chemical, also a > cancer drug, is highly toxic in high doses. The US is importing an increasing amount of food from abroad, especially from places with much lower safety standards, like Chile and Mexico. I think people ought to rethink this dangerous policy. Your life and your loved ones lives are at stake. Lisa "Lisa" <mandotar@verizon.net> wrote in message > The US is importing an increasing amount of food from abroad, > especially from places with much lower safety standards, like Chile > and Mexico. I think people ought to rethink this dangerous policy. > > Your life and your loved ones lives are at stake. What is the alternative? Manufacturing sufficient food on the North American continent for the North American public is probably impossible within a realistic time frame and if it was possible, it would probably more than triple the cost of what we pay now for food. Do you really think the general public would sit still for that? The truth is that we're too greedy and selfish of a society deny ourselves the luxuries with have. "Socialist Piece of sh.t Upscale" <upscale@teksavvy.com> wrote in message the following Communist propaganda: > What is the alternative? Manufacturing sufficient food on the North > American [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > public would sit still for that? The truth is that we're too greedy and > selfish of a society deny ourselves the luxuries with have. If you hate your country that much, the simple truth is you should pack up your Commie-loving a.s and move it to some third world country where you can sleep on a dirt floor and sh.t in a hole in the ground. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL > "Lisa" <mandotar@verizon.net> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > public would sit still for that? The truth is that we're too greedy and > selfish of a society deny ourselves the luxuries with have. You may be speaking about the luxury to kill ourselves......I like foreign food as much as the next person....I eat cheese from France and Denmark, olive oil from Italy, caviar imported from Iran, and a host of other foreign stuff. But I also pay my government a hell of a lot in taxes to police all that stuff and make sure it doesn't contain rat poison. Obviously, my government carries out this duty like they do everything else.....NOT!! .I eat cheese from France and Denmark, > olive oil from Italy, ........might be from CA olives shipped to Italy. Haven't checked this out, but it seems more and more raw materials are sent out and come back finished. buglady take out the dog before replying > .I eat cheese from France and Denmark, >> olive oil from Italy, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > buglady > take out the dog before replying Yes, and California presses are just as good as Italian presses.....I'm sure French Brie is better cheese than Petaluma brie, but after shipping it all the way from France, it's all dried out, so the local brie is better after all.....(and a lot cheaper, too) "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message > Yes, and California presses are just as good as Italian presses.....I'm sure > French Brie is better cheese than Petaluma brie, but after shipping it all > the way from France, it's all dried out, so the local brie is better after > all.....(and a lot cheaper, too) You're just full of all sorts of misinformation aren't you? Most cheeses are aged before consumption so that destroys your comment about drying out during the shipping process. Cheaper? Probably, but taste is a matter of perspective, something that you appear to know nothing about. Cheese, cats, whatever, you *do* rant and whatever you talk about, your mind is made up before you open your mouth. Quite the slanted little world you live in there Graham. > "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message >> > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > is made up before you open your mouth. Quite the slanted little world you > live in there Graham. Sorry, but that doesn't apply to brie, which is best while it's soft and moist....I am 71, and have been eating fine cheeses all of my life, and I have been to Europe and had fresh French brie, as well as the California brie.....It doesn't improve with age, regardless of where it's from. - Neither does Gorgonzola, which is my favorite cheese.....Best fresh and moist from the factory, (where it's aged under the right conditions.) Cheese, cats, whatever, you *do* rant and whatever you talk about, your mind > is made up before you open your mouth. Quite the slanted little world you > live in there Graham. And who the hell are you, "Upscale?" - Your creditability is shot before you get off the ground, because you post under an assumed pseudonym, and e-mail address.....Usenet is full of idiots like you who hide their true identities and then bitch about others who are open and true about what they know and how they know it....I am: William E. Graham, of 237 Turnage Street, NW, Salem, Oregon, and I am 71 years old, a graduate in mathematics of the University of Santa Clara in California, and I worked as an Engineer for 30 years for Stanford University. Everything I say on usenet (or anywhere else) is something I have learned from education and/or experience. Whenever I am unsure of something, I preface it with, "Well, I don't know for sure, but...." "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message > And who the hell are you, "Upscale?" - Your creditability is shot before you > get off the ground, because you post under an assumed pseudonym, and e-mail > address.....Usenet is full of idiots like you who hide their true identities Yes, you did assume didn't you? I haven't hidden a damned thing. If you were half as intelligent as you portray yourself to be, you'd have done a simple search on my email address. You'd have easily been able to verify that my email address is a full true working one, (the only one I have) as well as what my name is, not that it would make any difference in what I've said to you. > University of Santa Clara in California, and I worked as an Engineer for 30 > years for Stanford University. Everything I say on usenet (or anywhere > else) is something I have learned from education and/or experience. Considering how you've laid out your credentials, can we also assume you forgot to mention your doctorate in veterinary practice and a Cordon Bleu education in the cooking arts, specializing in cheeses? To put this thread on topic, you've spent 90% of your time in this newgroup ranting about the contaminated pet food, what should have been done and summarily declared judgement on how Menu Food's management should have executed. All of it without a shred of verifiable fact to back yourself up. The truth is still emerging and has yet to be fully discerned, yet you bluster on like what you what you have to say is unalterable fact. If that's not you ranting, then I don't know what is. > "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message >> And who the hell are you, "Upscale?" - Your creditability is shot before [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > search on my email address. You'd have easily been able to verify that my > email address is a full true working one, ....But you're still an illogical idiot....... (the only one I have) as well as > what my name is, not that it would make any difference in what I've said > to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > forgot to mention your doctorate in veterinary practice and a Cordon Bleu > education in the cooking arts, specializing in cheeses? Nope....I've just been eating them for 50 years or more..... > To put this thread on topic, you've spent 90% of your time in this > newgroup > ranting about the contaminated pet food, More like 10%......I've been in the newsgroup only about 3 months. what should have been done and > summarily declared judgement on how Menu Food's management should have > executed. All of it without a shred of verifiable fact to back yourself > up. Well, a bunch of dead cats is evidence of something, isn't it? > The truth is still emerging and has yet to be fully discerned, yet you > bluster on like what you what you have to say is unalterable fact. I've made no claims of "unalteraqble fact", as you could easily verify had you read my posts...... > If that's not you ranting, then I don't know what is. The operable phrase here is, "I don't know". "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message > Well, a bunch of dead cats is evidence of something, isn't it? > The operable phrase here is, "I don't know". Yes, by now everybody has realized fully that you don't know. "Upscale" <upscale@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:1f1c8$460e151c$cef88bc5> Yes, by now everybody has realized fully that you don't know. Speak for yourself, "Upscale". You are not at all qualified to speak for "everybody"........ > "Upscale" <upsc...@teksavvy.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Speak for yourself, "Upscale". You are not at all qualified to speak for > "everybody"........ You two want to take this juvenile garbage to somewhere more appropriate... say... your nearest sandbox, please?? --- Cory > You two want to take this juvenile garbage to somewhere more > appropriate... say... your nearest sandbox, please?? Thank you Cory. I'm ready to add these two to a growing killfile. Pam S. who'd like to read about cats > Thank you Cory. I'm ready to add these two to a growing killfile. > > Pam S. who'd like to read about cats Same for you, Tanada-the-Fruit. Instead of whining and pissing your pants, if you don't like what you see, then do what you said and shut the f.ck up! Disagreements are, and always have been, part of the Usenet culture. Don't let the door hit your a.s either on the way out! >> Thank you Cory. I'm ready to add these two to a growing killfile. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Don't let the door hit your a.s either on the way out! PLONK SignatureHugs and Purrs, Nan and the Furkids f.ck YOU TOO >>> Thank you Cory. I'm ready to add these two to a growing killfile. >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> > PLONK Why don't you all shut the flock up and take a list of the latest recalled foods around to your grocery stores instead of flapping your gums. buglady take out the dog before replying > Why don't you all shut the flock up and take a list of the latest recalled > foods around to your grocery stores instead of flapping your gums. So says the moron with a dial-up account from the Orlando area. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL > Why don't you all shut the flock up and take a list of the latest recalled > foods around to your grocery stores instead of flapping your gums. > > buglady > take out the dog before replying Oh, they'll have all the foods on the list, all right.....But I want a list of all the foods that are guaranteed to be free of contaminants.....Until they come out with that list, I'll feed my cats my own food, thanks....... >> Why don't you all shut the flock up and take a list of the latest >> recalled [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > contaminants.....Until they come out with that list, I'll feed my cats my > own food, thanks....... I just went out and bought chicken gizzards to cook and give to my kitties and cans of salmon meant for humans......I hope they like it............. Kitty >>> Why don't you all shut the flock up and take a list of the latest >>> recalled [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Kitty Yes, and there's the rub....My cats don't really like a lot of the fresh foods I cook for them...they are so used to eating that dry food that it's hard for me to get them to eat the chickens....Especially the females....They think the chicken is for the male feral cat, and they won't touch it unless I hand feed it to them piece by piece........ >> You two want to take this juvenile garbage to somewhere more >> appropriate... say... your nearest sandbox, please?? > > Thank you Cory. I'm ready to add these two to a growing killfile. > > Pam S. who'd like to read about cats Ditto my message to Cory above...... > You two want to take this juvenile garbage to somewhere more > appropriate... say... your nearest sandbox, please?? Hit the road Cory-the-Asswipe. Disputes are part & parcel of Usenet. If you don't like what you see, don't let the door hit you in the a.s. >> You two want to take this juvenile garbage to somewhere more >> appropriate... say... your nearest sandbox, please?? > > Hit the road Cory-the-Asswipe. Disputes are > part & parcel of Usenet. If you don't like what you see, > don't let the door hit you in the a.s. Well not all of usenet and did you ever hear of something called Netiquette. Flame wars are a waste of time and energy and people don't resect you for engaging in them. SignaturePeace, Fred >>> You two want to take this juvenile garbage to somewhere more >>> appropriate... say... your nearest sandbox, please?? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Netiquette. Flame wars are a waste of time and energy and people don't > resect you for engaging in them. ^^^^^^^ Resect ???? > Well not all of usenet and did you ever hear of something called > Netiquette. Flame wars are a waste of time and energy and people don't > resect you for engaging in them. You should stop using big words like *netiquette,* especially when you don't understand their meaning. BTW, what the hell is "resect"? or is that just your ignorance showing again? >> Well not all of usenet and did you ever hear of something called >>Netiquette. Flame wars are a waste of time and energy and people don't [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > BTW, what the hell is "resect"? or is that just your > ignorance showing again? PLONK > >> Well not all of usenet and did you ever hear of something called > >>Netiquette. Flame wars are a waste of time and energy and people don't [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > > PLONK RESECT: to cut out, e.g., "Ernie was just resected from posts visible to Fred." > RESECT: to cut out, e.g., "Ernie was just resected from posts visible > to Fred." Cute! LOL. SignatureJoey DoWop Dee Remember: It is To Laugh >> RESECT: to cut out, e.g., "Ernie was just resected from posts visible >> to Fred." > > Cute! LOL. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL very good definition,Soft > > >> Well not all of usenet and did you ever hear of something called > > >>Netiquette. Flame wars are a waste of time and energy and people don't [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > RESECT: to cut out, e.g., "Ernie was just resected from posts visible > to Fred." DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH > very good definition,Soft >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> RESECT: to cut out, e.g., "Ernie was just resected from posts visible >> to Fred." >> >> Well not all of usenet and did you ever hear of something called >> >>Netiquette. Flame wars are a waste of time and energy and people don't [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > RESECT: to cut out, e.g., "Ernie was just resected from posts visible > to Fred." No, Fred is jumping up & down, looking at his filthy $47 monitor, trying to stop himself from replying and violating his PLONK.... ROTFLMAO! Even ccrozzed eyed Piglet knows the words "etiquette" and "respect" even when ther might have been a typo inbolved. Stormmees soft tole Gramby about PLONK and Blocking some messages. Happy Purrday to allofta April kittens and Katz. >> >> Well not all of usenet and did you ever hear of something called >> >>Netiquette. Flame wars are a waste of time and energy and people don't [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > RESECT: to cut out, e.g., "Ernie was just resected from posts visible > to Fred." O Piglet: How du yu block messajes? Curiouss Lucy > Even ccrozzed eyed Piglet knows the words "etiquette" and "respect" even > when ther might have been a typo inbolved. Stormmees soft tole Gramby [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> RESECT: to cut out, e.g., "Ernie was just resected from posts visible >> to Fred." > O Piglet: How du yu block messajes? > > Curiouss Lucy Assuming that I don't have to be Piglet to answer, AFAIK every news reader has a way to block posts. Mine has a "Filters" menu offering the selection "kill this Author". (Sounds pretty brutal, doesn't it?) Try looking around your reader, browser, or whatever you use to access newsgroups. If it isn't obvious, try your "Help" file. Diana BWAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH > Even ccrozzed eyed Piglet knows the words "etiquette" and "respect" even > when ther might have been a typo inbolved. Stormmees soft tole Gramby [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> RESECT: to cut out, e.g., "Ernie was just resected from posts visible >> to Fred." >> >> Well not all of usenet and did you ever hear of something called >> >>Netiquette. Flame wars are a waste of time and energy and people don't [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > RESECT: to cut out, e.g., "Ernie was just resected from posts visible > to Fred." I can still see all the posts. I don't remember ever killfiling anyone, but I've said my bit now. We can let it go if we want. SignatureRegards, Fred >>> Well not all of usenet and did you ever hear of something called >>>Netiquette. Flame wars are a waste of time and energy and people don't [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> > PLONK Sure, sure........heard it all before, and we can just picture you there, straining, looking at your monitor there in the piss-a.s liberal state of Colorado, waiting for my next reply, and trying to decide if you should really violate your PLONK. ROTFLMAO! awaiting your reply.......... >> "Upscale" <upsc...@teksavvy.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > --- Cory Tell it to "upscale" here is the first insulting message he sent me..... Cheese, cats, whatever, you *do* rant and whatever you talk about, your > mind > is made up before you open your mouth. Quite the slanted little world you > live in there Graham. This, simply because I commented that domestic brie was better than the French, just because it's fresher.......It seems that some people can't express their disagreement without insulting someone else......... > According to the local news there was rat poison found in some of the > recalled pet foods. They did not have the specifics yet but said they > would have more on the evening news. On the CBC evening news here in Canada, (and I don't want to start a knee-jerk reaction here), they said the wheat gluten was sourced in China. Now depending on your political orientation you will blame the Chinese or suspect that someone contaminated the food to discredit the Chinese. We may never know, but it's interesting how the layers are coming off the onion as more and more info comes to light. Did they not mention the China connection in the States? It was on the 9:00 o'clock news, Eastern time, here in "Catnada." SignatureRegards, Fred Regardless of where the poison came from, one would think that some sort of quality control should have been in place at the point of producing the food that would have caught the problem. >> According to the local news there was rat poison found in some of the >> recalled pet foods. They did not have the specifics yet but said they [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > connection in the States? It was on the 9:00 o'clock news, Eastern time, > here in "Catnada." > ayers are coming off the > onion as more and more info comes to light. Did they not mention the China > connection in the States? It was on the 9:00 o'clock news, Eastern time, > here in "Catnada." Yes, it has been divulged in the US that China was the source of the wheat gluten, but as you pointed out, and as we all have to keep clear on, is that it could have been contaminated with the rat poison at any point: before, during or after its production or delivery. Possible scenario: competing providers wanting to discredit the Chinese. Another: competing food producers wanting to discredit the company," etc. All speculation at this point. My big worry at this point is whether or not we know the true extent of the contamination. I found one can of Iams salmon flakes in sauce that was produced at the plant in question, but even though the date code indicates it was produced before the contaminated gluten was obtained, there's no way I'm taking a chance on serving it until more of the "truth" comes out. I guess I'm just skeptical enough.... SignatureJoey DoWop Dee Remember: It is To Laugh >> ayers are coming off the >> onion as more and more info comes to light. Did they not mention the [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > I guess I'm just skeptical enough.... I am wondering if it was a "test" for terrorists to contaminate a food supply? Try it with animals first then perfect it and use on human food?? I am thinking it took a LOT of poison, to affect the quantities of pet food that we are seeing. I am not a conspiracy nut, but this is not too out of the realm. Any thoughts? kitty >>> ayers are coming off the >>> onion as more and more info comes to light. Did they not mention the [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > kitty Well, it sure is a different world than we once knew. I suppose it would be naive to rule out any possibility. Somewhere along the line, one of the newscasts I watched mentioned the "possibility of contamination in food products meant for human consumption." SignatureJoey DoWop Dee Remember: It is To Laugh >I am wondering if it was a "test" for terrorists to contaminate a food >supply? Try it with animals first then perfect it and use on human food?? I >am thinking it took a LOT of poison, to affect the quantities of pet food >that we are seeing. I am not a conspiracy nut, but this is not too out of >the realm. Any thoughts? Between the pet food, the spinach, and the lettuce problems I was thinking the same thing. If it was a test it worked. >>I am wondering if it was a "test" for terrorists to contaminate a food >>supply? Try it with animals first then perfect it and use on human food?? I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > If it was a test it worked. It worked? If it was a test, I'd say it failed miserably. >>> I am wondering if it was a "test" for terrorists to contaminate a >>> food supply? Try it with animals first then perfect it and use on [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > If it was a test, I'd say it failed miserably. Depends on how many eventual deaths we're talking about. It could be they were merely testing a distribution method. Tinfoil hat aside; My own theory is that some farmer in China had rat problems in his fields and happened to have a big can of the stuff (probably labeled 'rat poison') around, and used it all. His products were part of those exported to MF, and from there were mixed in with everything else... if that's the case it's highly unlikely they'll ever track the source down. That mainly depends on how concerned the Chinese gov gets over this. All this has struck very close to home -my best friend's 19yo tom, who was "100%" at his last full workup - last fall - has gone downhill in the last two-three weeks, and we just had confirmation that it's kidney failure (fortunately not too advanced as of yet, she noticed the changes in him pretty quickly and immediately got him into the vet a day before the reports started appearing). Of course at his age it's possible it's due to something else, and there may be another environmental factor, but he has been eating the Iams 3oz packets almost every day for two months now. Our vet is aware of the aminopterin discovery and is doing research on antidotes or ways to bind the toxin and remove it from the kidneys. If he finds out anything I'll post it here. A big JH Star for him, he's incredibly dedicated. Kirby is an unbelievably tough furry, we're hopeful he'll pull thru. Two kidney flushes have definitely helped, and he's kept down the KD diet so far, first food he's kept down all week (and he even prefers it over his regular dry food, which may be a good sign.) Like I said, we're hopeful - cats can and do recover from kidney damage. I'm very glad at this point that I weaned my furkids off of soft cat food long ago. Our sympathies to anyone out there who is also going thru this. We've known we'd lose Kirby someday, but... not like this. It's been a very bad week. :( A Signature"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself." - Declaration of Arbroath, 1320 "The state which separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools," Thucydides. >>>> I am wondering if it was a "test" for terrorists to contaminate a >>>> food supply? Try it with animals first then perfect it and use on [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Depends on how many eventual deaths we're talking about. I based my statement on the numebr of deaths we know were probably attributed to this (according to news reports), which isn't very many considering the scope of the recall. Couple that with the fact that any mass poisoning of food meant for human consumption would be taken far more seriously and would be reacted to far more quickly and you've may create panic, but not very many deaths. Reaction to potential problems with products meant for human consumption often tends to be extreme (The Japanese stance on beef imports from the US is an excellent example), while pet food is not as well regulated as food meant for human consumption. Someone else said they thought the press was doing a good job as it has the lead story on their local news for most (perhaps all?) of the past week. I don't watch much local news - there isn't even a local TV station in the little burg I live in, but the major cable news networks haven't been covering this much. They have mentioned it, but only briefly. They're still more interested in Anna Nicole Smith, Britney Spears, the YouTube Hillary commercial, etc.. > It could be > they were merely testing a distribution method. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > that's the case it's highly unlikely they'll ever track the source down. > That mainly depends on how concerned the Chinese gov gets over this. That seems a plausible explanation to me. Another possibility is it happened at a factory in China. > All this has struck very close to home -my best friend's 19yo tom, who > was "100%" at his last full workup - last fall - has gone downhill in [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > over his regular dry food, which may be a good sign.) Like I said, we're > hopeful - cats can and do recover from kidney damage. I hope he pulls through > I'm very glad at this point that I weaned my furkids off of soft cat > food long ago. I'm glad I didn't follow advice I read here not too long ago - that dry food was basically poison. Now, I realize this problem could just as easily occurred with dry food, but I could just as easily eaten bad spinach last fall and when the news of salmonella in Peanut Butter came out, I checked the jar in my pantry - sure enough, it had the exact product code they mentioned and it was almost completely empty. > Our sympathies to anyone out there who is also going thru this. We've > known we'd lose Kirby someday, but... not like this. It's been a very > bad week. :( > > A >I based my statement on the numebr of deaths we know were probably >attributed to this (according to news reports), which isn't very many >considering the scope of the recall. Right now the deaths attributed to this rat poison is relatively low. I wouldn't be surprised if the number grows dramatically when vets and others re-examine past deaths from kidney failure. A vet may have an inclination the death was attributed to this contaminated food but will they be able to prove it? That I don't know. >I don't watch much local news - there isn't even a local TV station in >the little burg I live in, but the major cable news networks haven't >been covering this much. They have mentioned it, but only briefly. >They're still more interested in Anna Nicole Smith, Britney Spears, the >YouTube Hillary commercial, etc.. You're watching the wrong channel. Try MSNBC. Keith Olberman mentioned it often. >> I'm very glad at this point that I weaned my furkids off of soft cat >> food long ago. I'd point out the contamination was Rat Poison which could have been any substance, be it dry food, moist food, or who knows what else. Luckily it was only moist food this time but it could have infected any food. >> I based my statement on the numebr of deaths we know were probably >> attributed to this (according to news reports), which isn't very many [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > That I don't know. All poisons leave traces in the body. It's a matter of identifying the traces properly and linking them to the specific cause with enough sample analysis. It's expensive in equipment and knowledge. We've already decided that if Kirby dies, the vet can extract his kidney and liver for analysis. Might help someone else someday. The rest of him we'll scatter to the wind he always loved. >>> I'm very glad at this point that I weaned my furkids off of soft cat >>> food long ago. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Luckily it was only moist food this time but it could have infected > any food. No argument there. A Signature"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself." - Declaration of Arbroath, 1320 "The state which separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools," Thucydides. > All poisons leave traces in the body. It's a matter of identifying the >traces properly and linking them to the specific cause with enough >sample analysis. It's expensive in equipment and knowledge. Not to mention the bodies probably have been buried/cremated. And even if it is buried could they get a usable sample this late in the process? Is it safe to assume they can't get a sample in cremation? If a cat died in December would any vet have the forethought to get a sample for later testing? >> All poisons leave traces in the body. It's a matter of identifying the >> traces properly and linking them to the specific cause with enough >> sample analysis. It's expensive in equipment and knowledge. > Not to mention the bodies probably have been buried/cremated. > > And even if it is buried could they get a usable sample this late > in the process? Depends on the toxin. Some will deteriorate naturally after death of the organism; but as far as I know, nothing useful as a mammalian toxin (like rat or mouse poison) does so, as that inhibits it being spread on within the target population. In this case I'd say it's very likely they could find it in exhumed bodies. That's a guess but it seems a reasonable one given the nature of the toxin. > Is it safe to assume they can't get a sample in cremation? Extremely unlikely. Any toxin that affects mammals would likely be destroyed by the same processes meant to reduce all of the organic material to ash. > If a cat died in December would any vet have the > forethought to get a sample for later testing? They would probably have done kidney biopsies; depends on the case, more likely in CRF than in ARF, as ARF has more dramatic symptoms. As to whether or not they kept the tissue samples, I'd have to say it's unlikely unless they thought there was something unusual about the event. Freezer space is always limited. But they would likely have kept lab results; I still haven't heard whether or not aminopterin can be found thru blood and urine workups. Anyone with any info there? A Oh, and a disclaimer: I am not a veterinarian, nor am I involved in this in any way other than as a concerned pet owner. What I write is not meant as professional advice in any form. (sheese) ;) Signature"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself." - Declaration of Arbroath, 1320 "The state which separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools," Thucydides. thanks for a great reply >>> It worked? >>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > attributed to this (according to news reports), which isn't very many > considering the scope of the recall. Not the official count, no. But if you haven't, you may want to read thru : http://www.petconnection.com/index.php and also http://catmanager.wordpress.com/ and particularly the excellent (I thought) analysis here: http://catmanager.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/thoughts-on-the-pet-connection-data/ skim in order but pay attention to the last one, then reread. (just suggestions) Read thru and get back to me if you want to / have time. I'm curious to see if your reasoning echoes mine. I have about fifty hours before I'm back at work and it'll take me away from this. (sigh...) Not enough data, yet, but what I've seen suggests that it's much more widespread than any official numbers. We likely won't have any "real" statistics for many months ;( This is something we need to learn from. > Couple that with the fact that any mass poisoning of food meant for > human consumption would be taken far more seriously and would be reacted > to far more quickly and you've may create panic, but not very many deaths. Well, the testing is much more rigid for human grade food products. I have no argument there. Mind you, I'm not pushing the terrorist angle - but I find it impossible to entirely dismiss. I'm sure it's being discussed everywhere else ;) > Reaction to potential problems with products meant for human consumption > often tends to be extreme (The Japanese stance on beef imports from the > US is an excellent example), while pet food is not as well regulated as > food meant for human consumption. Which I think points out the average societal regard for the other sentient species on this planet perfectly well. Other than that, I have no agenda there nor do I wish to get into that argument here. /EOS > Someone else said they thought the press was doing a good job as it has > the lead story on their local news for most (perhaps all?) of the past > week. I've heard so. I don't watch tv, so I don't know. I hope so. I have parsed a lot of tv station website articles, and they are nearly all redundant rehash of the same AP or MF/FDA announcements. There's some new data scattered here and there. Not much. The cynical part of me can imagine the sound bites. ;\ The blog I linked to above has had the most diverse amount of info in one place, so far. Still trackin' ;) > I don't watch much local news - there isn't even a local TV station in > the little burg I live in, but the major cable news networks haven't > been covering this much. They have mentioned it, but only briefly. > They're still more interested in Anna Nicole Smith, Britney Spears, the > YouTube Hillary commercial, etc.. That doesn't surprise me at all. >> It could be they were merely testing a distribution method. >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > That seems a plausible explanation to me. Another possibility is it > happened at a factory in China. Agreed. Might be easier to track down in that case. Cooperation, again. Someone else here noted that the chinese don't have our equivalent of MSDS, and they had a good point. I testified in court once regarding a workplace toxin issue, and it was horribly confused, hours of readings from the booklets and clueless questions from the jury. Quite scary. > I hope he pulls through Thank you, every thought counts. He's lived a full life full of adventure and love, but there is just something ignoble about him dying from some simple human mistake. I know he'd agree, he's always loved playing practical jokes on us. We like to think we let him get away with it :) >> I'm very glad at this point that I weaned my furkids off of soft cat >> food long ago. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > out, I checked the jar in my pantry - sure enough, it had the exact > product code they mentioned and it was almost completely empty. Well, either you were lucky, or you have an experienced immune system. Or the problem was overblown. *shrug* I've found that both+all usually have some say in continued life ;) As to raw food diets and the conflict there - if that's what you were obliquely referring to - I don't think their reasoning is flawed, nor their experiences. As a matter of fact I agree with the theory. But I have no personal experience to tell one way or the other, not yet. I'll admit that this latest reminder of the dangers of centralized food production is certainly making me think again. Although I would probably have to force-vent the litterboxes for a couple weeks... Heck, I dunno... I pay about as much attention to all the continued human food alerts as I do to Britney Spears *grin* and I don't remember the last time I had a cold. Couple years ago? But furry kids, that's different. They are my family, and they are my foremost obligation. Cheers, A Signature"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself." - Declaration of Arbroath, 1320 "The state which separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools," Thucydides. >>>I am wondering if it was a "test" for terrorists to contaminate a food >>>supply? Try it with animals first then perfect it and use on human food?? I [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >If it was a test, I'd say it failed miserably. Depens on how you look at the test. If it wss a test of scaring people it succeeded. > Possible scenario: competing providers wanting to discredit the Chinese. > Another: competing food producers wanting to discredit the company," etc. > All speculation at this point. Education is very uneven in China and the idea of even having a MSDS (Material Data Safety Scheet) is foreign and misunderstood by most Chinese workers and plant operators. You have rats so you spray or bait them. Spraying food containers? That's OK because the food is meant for other animals or humans and this is RAT poison, not other-animal poison. That problem comes from ignorance, not from malice. Manufacturing and shipping workers (and supervisiors) in China have their origin as peasants in the countryside. They have never seen a University and most have never been educated further than primary school. That is identical to the people who worked to make the United States an industrial power in the late 1800's and early 1900's and whose massive pollution remains a legacy to this day. Even the regional differences in dialect and language are parallel to early America. From a post in another newsgroup: > All nations have idiots and the Chinese are no exception. A big container arrived with products from China in it one day. The boxes looked and smelled strange. A lab result revealed that a virulent and toxic fungicide (also illegal for use in the U.S.) had been sprayed on the shipment. The shipment and it's contents had to be destroyed. The Chinese investigators found that a shipping worker in Shanhai did the deed with the best of intentions. I do not know if he ended up in the countryside in a "re-education camp" or whether they just shrugged it off (probably the latter). Nothing else will change this circumstance except time and education, barring a plague, a nuclear war or some old fashioned biblical locusts. I'm rooting for the locusts myself. *snip some very insightful comments* I read your post just after posting right above you :) It makes a lot of sense that it was introduced either at the field or shipping level as you hint at, although my bet is on fields. Given the widespread but apparently uneven distribution, it makes sense it was further down the chain. I'll concede we don't know enough as yet. As long as we're on that topic, why the gorram hell is a US company importing wheat from China? *grumble* ( that's a rhetorical question, BTW) ;) I think if there's a real lesson to be learned from this, it's about the foolhardiness of centralizing food production of any kind. > Nothing else will change this circumstance except time and education, > barring a plague, a nuclear war or some old fashioned biblical locusts. I'm > rooting for the locusts myself. Be careful what you wish for... A Signature"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself." - Declaration of Arbroath, 1320 "The state which separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools," Thucydides. > As long as we're on that topic, why the gorram hell is a US company >importing wheat from China? *grumble* ( that's a rhetorical question, >BTW) ;) Menu is in Canada. As to why buy from a compnay in China? Bear in mind if you got rid of everything at Wal-mart that was made outside of the United States the shelves would be empty. Maybe the compnay in China is the only supplier that could deliver? >> As long as we're on that topic, why the gorram hell is a US company >> importing wheat from China? *grumble* ( that's a rhetorical question, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Bear in mind if you got rid of everything at Wal-mart that was made > outside of the United States the shelves would be empty. Damn near. But that's more a meta-topic and not one for this ng. > Maybe the compnay in China is the only supplier that could deliver? Lowest bidder. I read some data a couple hours back that indicates that the chinese sources are up to 20% cheaper. Figures. But my point is that the US is a huge wheat *exporter*. While MF may be located in Canada, the plants they operate are here in the US. In Kansas, even, wasn't it? I believe that even Canada exports wheat. so ... lowest bidder ;( I have the feeling that their cost-cutting is about to bite them very badly. Justifiably at this point, as far as I'm concerned. At the very least they weren't testing their supplier's ingredients thoroughly enough. Just because aminopterin is banned here don't mean it's banned elsewhere, and they should be aware of that. I don't want to sound like a fanatic like some here do, but the more I read, the more I get disgusted. Even if aminopterin isn't the cause of what we're seeing, the company still screwed up very badly in blindly trusting their imported supplies; they obviously weren't doing thorough tests that looked for things used in the country of origin. It's a good bet that a lot of human-grade food manufacturers are quietly scrambling around reviewing their QA procedures right now, IMO. It'll be interesting to see what, if any, official response ever comes from the chinese government (I've not seen any yet). This is a concern for them, as well, as aminopterin is a potential cause of ARF/CRF in humans (as well as a potent arborfiant (sp), as is any toxin that mammalian kidneys can't easily metabolize. 26 hours now and Kirby hasn't thrown up again, yet. It's a Record, a good one. He's not touching his other dry food, eating small parts of the KD (low phos/protein diet, not hogging food like he was a couple days ago [yes, we've read the arguments about low vs. high protein indicated for kidney problems, we're following the vet right now]) and he's definitely more energetic. Of course that could come from the, um, attention *g* (poor buddy, no more treats, no more outdoors. That's like taking away my books and internet. Then semi-strangers sticking all these needles in one... ) An excellent source of general info: http://wordpress.com/tag/product-recalls/ back to the scrambling A Signature"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself." - Declaration of Arbroath, 1320 "The state which separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools," Thucydides. >> As long as we're on that topic, why the gorram hell is a US company >>importing wheat from China? *grumble* ( that's a rhetorical question, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Maybe the compnay in China is the only supplier that could deliver? More likely price ?!?! Same reason more and more of our jobs are ending up pverseas !! The almighty dollar !!! Buy as cheap as can then resell for as much as the market will bear !!!! ***************************************************** E-mail address altered to foil spam. Reply to news groups for all to see please. _ / ) (\__/) ( ( ) ( ) ) ={ }= / / ) `-------/ / ( / \ | ,'\ , ,' `-'\ ,---\ | \ _) ) `. \ / (__/ ) ) (_/ (\__/) )oo( ={ >}= ***************************************************** Apparently this particular rat poison is widely used in China, and there, it is legal to use it around food sources. Last night as I was listening to the news, it was the first time I had heard them say that Menu Foods would pay your vet costs if you could "prove" their food killed or harmed your pet, but they certainly emphasized the word "prove." I have to think that Menu Foods might never recover from this. On the one hand, I don't think they set out to do anything wrong, but on the other, I wonder if they were aware of the dangers of using the gluten imported from China. It would seem that if you were a MAJOR food producer, you would know these things. I took Bear for his monthly adequan shot today, and the vet didn't have much time to talk - he was too busy treating cats with kidney problems. At least the networks seem to be doing a decent enough job of covering the story. Except for the night when a police officer was killed here, the pet food disaster has been the lead story on the news every night. Julie >> According to the local news there was rat poison found in some of the >> recalled pet foods. They did not have the specifics yet but said they [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > connection in the States? It was on the 9:00 o'clock news, Eastern time, > here in "Catnada." >Did they not mention the China >connection in the States? It was on the 9:00 o'clock news, Eastern time, Yes China was mentioned here. > > According to the local news there was rat poison found in some of the > > recalled pet foods. They did not have the specifics yet but said they [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > -- > Regards, Fred The first time I ever heard any connection to China was this afternoon when a friend mentioned it to me during a telephone conversation with her. I had to ask her WTH she was talking about, because I hadn't heard that nugget of info. yet, and I've been pretty on top of this story since it broke - for my parents, who are traveling with their cats right now - and have heard pretty much everything, except this. This is why I've been as vigilant as I have about keeping up-to-date about this saga. It seems to literally change on an hour-by-hour basis. --- Cory P.S. - FYI, this thread has been cross-posted all across the cat hierarchies. Play nice, everyone (i.e. watch the "language"). Buried a 14 year old tabby in December 06 from a sudden and rapid kidney failure. She ate Iams and Fancy feast and I noticed she seemed to dislike the gravy style food and we bought it a couple of times by mistake and expectde her to eat it anyway. Got the vet bills and grave in the yard to prove it. They say it started as early as December but I strongly suspect it was almost certainly in the food chain as early as October or November and my last tabby Rosie went out fast because she was not a strong or young kitten anymore. They a full of poop if they are trying to say they have no clue. They have lots of clues but they want to sift through them and spin it in the best possible light for themselves. When we look at the salaries of execs in this country and then for them to allow something like this to happen, they deserve proper penalties to offset the huge rewards they normally enjoy. Now I have to worry that my new cat was given any of the leftover food because I never suspected premium IAMS would be on the cat killer list. > When we look at the salaries of execs in this country Here are their names: Robert W. Luba: Chairman and Trustee of the Fund, Chairman of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Alexander R. Aird: Trustee of the Fund, Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Serge K. Darkazanli: Trustee of the Fund, Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Eric A. Demirian: Trustee of the Fund, Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Thomas A Di Giacomo: Trustee of the Fund, Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Stephen A. Bearg: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Margaret A. Bras: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Robert W. Bras: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Douglas F. Haslam: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Fraser D. Latta: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Douglas N. Lunau: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Donald G. Watt: Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Paul K. Henderson: President, Chief Executive Officer and Director of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Mark A. Wiens: Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Dr. Richard G. Shields Jr.: Executive Vice President - Technical Services of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Randall C. Copeland: Executive Vice President - Sales and Marketing of Menu Foods GenPar Limited William F. Grant: Executive Vice President - Corporate Purchasing and Logistics of Menu Foods GenPar Limited Christopher J. Mifflin: Executive Vice President - Operations of Menu Foods GenPar Limited All of these people, including those brands that were reselling this crap as their own (i.e. IAMS, Science Diet, etc.), should be made to EAT a pouch or two of what they are hawking every day if they think it is so safe. BASTARDS! They should feel lucky that, so far, my two cats are okay (because I'm an eye for an eye kind of guy!!!) BASTARDS! I'm sure we'll have the name of more heads soon. >All of these people, including those brands that were reselling this >crap as their own (i.e. IAMS, Science Diet, etc.), should be made to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I'm sure we'll have the name of more heads soon. One thing i'm wondering after the 90+ brands of moist food are removed the shelves is there anything left? (I'm fortunate that all my cats only do dry food. My oldest has never tolerated moist food.) But i'd want further details before blaming IAMS/science diet/ purina and the other 87 brands. After all it comes down to a question of who knew what when. (I'd add that is probably sheer luck that New York officials stumbled on what the ingredient was.) > One thing i'm wondering after the 90+ brands of moist food are > removed the shelves is there anything left? The soft food shelves at our local Safeway are better than half empty. > (I'm fortunate that all my cats only do dry food. My oldest has > never tolerated moist food.) I had to wean both mine off of soft food because it was causing obesity problems for my young tom. They have occasional kitchen snacks. And glad I did ;\ My girlfriend may not have been as fortunate... > But i'd want further details before blaming IAMS/science diet/ > purina and the other 87 brands. After all it comes down > to a question of who knew what when. Where it originated. > (I'd add that is probably sheer luck that New York officials > stumbled on what the ingredient was.) I read that it was one of the two centers set up for bioterrorism testing that found it. If so, kudos. It's frustrating not knowing what's going on... A Signature"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself." - Declaration of Arbroath, 1320 "The state which separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools," Thucydides. My question still remains, where is the Quality control all these brands advertise, especially the more expensive ones, that is so important to them? Even after two cats died a blind man could see there was a problem, just ask us! >> One thing i'm wondering after the 90+ brands of moist food are removed >> the shelves is there anything left? [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > A >My question still remains, where is the Quality control all these brands >advertise, especially the more expensive ones, that is so important to >them? Even after two cats died a blind man could see there was a problem, >just ask us! I don't want to be in a position to defend menu but you've never worked in retail have you? The problem could be anywhere in a long chain. From the factory to the warehouse, the entire distribution system, the retail warehouses, the retailer, etc. The problem (if there is one could stretch anywhere along the chain. Remember the Tylenol scare? That occurred on the shelf at the store. >> My question still remains, where is the Quality control all these brands >> advertise, especially the more expensive ones, that is so important to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > worked in retail have you? The problem could be anywhere in a > long chain. No, it couldn't. It's too widespread. It has to originate from a single source somewhere inside or upstream of the plants it was manufactured in, not on the retail distribution end. Otherwise we would see a very skewed distribution by region. A Signature"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself." - Declaration of Arbroath, 1320 "The state which separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools," Thucydides. > No, it couldn't. It's too widespread. It has to originate from a >single source somewhere inside or upstream of the plants it was >manufactured in, not on the retail distribution end. Otherwise we would >see a very skewed distribution by region. You weren't around for the Tylenol scare were you? Something like this could have put in any where along the line, as Tylenol and other companies have found out the hard way. That is why they have the caps they do on many products. If you want to extort money from a corporation tainting a product is one place to start. A number of cases have occurred over the years. Too many corporations have learned that lesson the hard way. > No, it couldn't. It's too widespread. It has to originate from a >single source somewhere inside or upstream of the plants it was >manufactured in, not on the retail distribution end. Otherwise we would >see a very skewed distribution by region. You do realize someone could taint the product on store shelves in by flying to each city and doing at the retail level? That has occurred before. >> No, it couldn't. It's too widespread. It has to originate from a >> single source somewhere inside or upstream of the plants it was [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > That has occurred before. I realize that, and yes, I was around. This is happening on a different scale, the way it's spread is entirely different. It's not some lone nutcase on the retail side. It *has* to be factory or upstream. Not even a battalion of nutcases could fly from city to city and produce the distribution of cases. If you've been surfing the web news this week you should see the patterns. A Signature"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself." - Declaration of Arbroath, 1320 "The state which separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools," Thucydides. >>> No, it couldn't. It's too widespread. It has to originate from a single >>> source somewhere inside or upstream of the plants it was manufactured [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > If you've been surfing the web news this week you should see the > patterns. I wonder if we get the gluten from China, or just the wheat, and then we make the gluten here.....It strikes me that we should be sending wheat to china, and not getting wheat from China.....Doesn't the US make more wheat than like, everybody? My guess is that we send the wheat to China, and they turn it into gluten (whatever that is) and then send it back....I know we do this with olives and olive oil. Most olives are grown in California. We then ship them to Italy, where they make the olive oil, and then send it back to us in fancy bottles labeled, "Italian Olive Oil". (In Italian, of course) But if we grow the wheat here, then why would the Chinese contaminate it with rat poison? One would think that we would contaminate it with the rat poison if anybody is going to do so at all......Do the rats wait until it is on Chinese soil before they eat it? Sorry.....Just musing...... >I wonder if we get the gluten from China, or just the wheat, and then we >make the gluten here.....It strikes me that we should be sending wheat to >china, and not getting wheat from China.....Doesn't the US make more wheat >than like, everybody? Could this be a case where they don't want US wheat? Bear in mind there are people in countries who would rather starve then eat food from the US....they're too scared of the aditives that are put into the food. Additives they are convinced are not safe. >>I wonder if we get the gluten from China, or just the wheat, and then we |
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