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Cat Forum / General Topics / March 2007VIDEO: What does Kosher mean?
Video - Warning graphic: http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=agri_short Per fgdg: >http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=agri_short That was sickening. I'll never knock PETA again.  SignaturePeteCresswell Please stop cross posting this thread to alt.pets.rabbits thanks! SignatureGod Bless, Arlette, Cocoa & Brownie in heaven (See us here) http://photos.yahoo.com/cocoa3c Need a vet? Click here <http://www.rabbitvet.net> For Cocoa's body sling vids Click here <http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=cocoa3c> This video is very graphic and very real..... do not watch it if you have a weak stomach Never kosher again and I'll certainly re-evaluate my diet. I have a bunch of food allergies (including soy and some others, which makes it very hard to be vegetarian) but this is...well... I find it amazing that their undercover folks could stand to be there long enough to get the footage...... Signatureie ride fast, take chances. > This video is very graphic and very real..... > > do not watch it if you have a weak stomach > Video - Warning graphic: > http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=agri_short I am not going to watch the video, as I don't have a strong stomach these days. Temple Grandin, who is an expert in such matters, has written that kosher slaughter, *done correctly,* is humane. It's difficult to do correctly, though. There should be little pain and quick death. If the video is VERY sickening, then probably it wasn't done right. PETA is an expert at slanting their information so that you don't get the whole story. Besides, PETA kills animals: http://www.petakillsanimals.com/ flick 100785 SignatureThey also serve who only stand and wait. John Milton. > > Video - Warning graphic: > >http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=agri_short [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > -- > They also serve who only stand and wait. John Milton. PETA kills animals? Under what circumstances? Ros > PETA kills animals? Under what circumstances? PETA took in a bunch of people's dogs, when people had to give them up for various reasons. The people believed that PETA would re-home them. Instead, PETA killed most of them, then dumped the bodies in dumpsters. The head of PETA has stated publicly that people shouldn't keep pets. http://www.petakillsanimals.com flick 100785 > > Video - Warning graphic: > >http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=agri_short [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > -- > They also serve who only stand and wait. John Milton. I won't be watching it. I am a vegetarian of 25+ years and won't condone the slaughter of animals under any circumstances. What I wanted to say though is that Halal is pretty similar to Kosher in its procedures. Ros Per flick: >Temple Grandin, who is an expert in such matters, has written that kosher >slaughter, *done correctly,* is humane. It's difficult to do correctly, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >an expert at slanting their information so that you don't get the whole >story. The process appears to be automated: the animal is put into a machine that does the job. No human intervention, and therefore no human error. The video shows animal-after-animal coming out of that machine alive and kicking - albeit badly mutilated. If it's not being done properly, then it's not being done properly on a large scale. SignaturePeteCresswell > Per flick: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > The process appears to be automated: the animal is put into a machine that does > the job. That's not possible, unless the machine is a rabbi. The killing must be performed by a rabbi. > No human intervention, and therefore no human error. The video shows > animal-after-animal coming out of that machine alive and kicking - albeit badly > mutilated. > > If it's not being done properly, then it's not being done properly on a large > scale. Per Fred G. Mackey: >> The process appears to be automated: the animal is put into a machine that does >> the job. > >That's not possible, unless the machine is a rabbi. That's applicable to whether-or-not the process is kosher slaughter. My comments did not address that question - only that the animals were put into some sort of machine, injured but not killed, and then dumped out onto the floor alive. That seems tb an indisputable fact once one has seen the video. Assuming it's something else besides kosher slaughter, can somebody comment on what's really going on in that video? It's clearly part of some slaughtering process... but what kind and what part? SignaturePeteCresswell > Per Fred G. Mackey: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > some sort of machine, injured but not killed, and then dumped out onto the floor > alive. That's not how it works. The cattle are dead in an instant and they are not dumped onto the floor - they are raised up on a hook. > That seems tb an indisputable fact once one has seen the video. > > Assuming it's something else besides kosher slaughter, can somebody comment on > what's really going on in that video? It's clearly part of some slaughtering > process... but what kind and what part? It could be a beef plant in Argentina or Korea, but that's not how things are done in the US. > Video - Warning graphic: > http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=agri_short Well, it would seem that once again, PETA has taken a handful of clips from a long investigation and made a video that attempts to demonize the meat industry. Remember, PETA is the same group that tried to scare your children with comic books which suggested that if you happened to fish that they should be concerned that one day they might find Fido or Mittens on their dinner plate. I suspect that these examples were culled from thousands of kills and even in these cases, the animals only suffered for mere seconds. It's interesting because I was just talking to someone today who believed that cutting the throat of an animal was more humane that knocking them. I'm not convinced that slitting the throat is quicker than a good knock. It's probably just as well that I don't have the link handy, but I've seen videos from a company that sells non-kosher killing equipment. The standard method is to hit them in the head with a device which essentially makes it "over" instantaneously. I would think one of the worst jobs would be to operate this device on cattle, killing hundreds of them daily in one swift, though ergonomically-friendly, pull of the trigger. Just remember this, if God (or god or Gaia or mother nature or whatever) hadn't intended for us to eat animals, why did he (or she or it or whatever) make them out of meat? Per Fred G. Mackey: >The standard method is to hit them in the head with a device which >essentially makes it "over" instantaneously. When I was a kid, that device was called a "pole ax". You mentally draw an "X" between the horns and eyes on opposite sides. If you strike at the center of the "x", the animal goes down like a puppet whose strings have been cut. SignaturePeteCresswell >> Video - Warning graphic: >> http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=agri_short > > Well, it would seem that once again, PETA has taken a handful of clips > from a long investigation and made a video that attempts to demonize the > meat industry. The meat industry is a demon. Sheesh! > Remember, PETA is the same group that tried to scare your children with > comic books which suggested that if you happened to fish that they [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > hadn't intended for us to eat animals, why did he (or she or it or > whatever) make them out of meat? Signature-- I am not the Easter Bunny -- > The meat industry is a demon. Sheesh! What, you worry? :-) SignatureJoey DoWop Dee Remember: It is To Laugh f/u restricted to alt.cats >>>Video - Warning graphic: >>>http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=agri_short [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > The meat industry is a demon. Sheesh! Why? Because they slaughter animals and supply meat to the market which demands it? >>>>Video - Warning graphic: >>>>http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=agri_short [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Why? Because they slaughter animals and supply meat to the market which > demands it? It's the way they do it. Nobody demands suffering, but the meat industry demon doesn't want you to know the animals they raise are indeed suffering greatly from the moment they're born or hatched. Signature-- I am not the Easter Bunny -- >>>>>Video - Warning graphic: >>>>>http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=agri_short [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > doesn't want you to know the animals they raise are indeed suffering greatly > from the moment they're born or hatched. Sorry, but you'll have to explain at what point they are suffering. Is it when they're out grazing in the fields? When they're being fed in feed lots? When they get knocked? Or is it the indignity they suffer once their carcasses are hanging in a cooler? > >>>>>Video - Warning graphic: > >>>>>http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=agri_short [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > - Show quoted text - May I respectfully suggest that an approptiate forum for this discussion is http://groups.google.com/group/alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian?hl=en > May I respectfully suggest that an approptiate forum for this > discussion is http://groups.google.com/group/alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian?hl=en May I respectfully suggest that you employ your KF on this thread and use a newsreader instead of google. May I also respectfully suggest you follow proper netiquette and trim posts that you're responding to? Per Fred G. Mackey: >Sorry, but you'll have to explain at what point they are suffering. Is >it when they're out grazing in the fields? When they're being fed in >feed lots? When they get knocked? You need to watch the video. SignaturePeteCresswell > Per Fred G. Mackey: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > You need to watch the video. I watched it. I don't know where that video was taken, but that's not how cattle is slaughtered in the US (not even kosher beef). Cattle in the US is "knocked". They use a high powered "gun" to slam a cylinder into the cows head. Interestingly enough, the cheek muscles still twitch even after the animal is bled out, de-hided, decpatitated and the cheek muscles are put into boxes, but that is not a sign that the animal is still suffering at that point. The problem is that too many blindly believe anything PETA tells them. Here's another news-flash for you. Cattle prods are NOT used in any of the beef plants I've seen as they are deemed to be cruel. The meat industry is highly regulated and there are USDA workers in all meat plants in the US. They are employed by the government, NOT the meat industry. They have the power to shut down production for ANY reason. Shutting down production is VERY expensive to the meat processors, therefore they go to great lengths to insure safety of both their employees AND the meat. >> Per Fred G. Mackey: >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Cattle in the US is "knocked". They use a high powered "gun" to slam a > cylinder into the cows head. Except that practise isn't Kosher hence for "Kosher" meat stun guns are not used. >> Video - Warning graphic: >> http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=agri_short [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > hadn't intended for us to eat animals, why did he (or she or it or > whatever) make them out of meat? Irrelevant, religion is a load of antiquated nonsense and killing in the name of, especially if it involved inhumane and cruel death in order to make meat "kosher" is particularly disgusting. Those who supports such practices deserve to endure a similar death. > ...religion is a load of antiquated nonsense and killing.... Cite? > Those who supports such practices deserve to endure a similar death. Cite? Jack > > ...religion is a load of antiquated nonsense and killing.... > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Jack Go check out Sudan, Pakistan/India border, Borneo(Indonesia)... Murder in the name of Alla. (I wont mention Iran/Irak, Irak/Koerds. etc etc.) >> > ...religion is a load of antiquated nonsense and killing.... >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Murder in the name of Alla. > (I wont mention Iran/Irak, Irak/Koerds. etc etc.) _A_ religion is not "religion", though some have mistakes in their past, and in their present character. Perhaps understanding would be better served by looking at what a mess human nature tends to make of even the finest of intentions, rather than deriding something of which your understanding is imperfect. Jack >>> > ...religion is a load of antiquated nonsense and killing.... >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Jack What do I not understand about wholesale murder?? Anything that has PETA involved is suspect and needs to be questioned > Video - Warning graphic: > http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=agri_short Per Matthew: >Anything that has PETA involved is suspect and needs to be questioned Did you watch the video? I've always thought that PETA were a bunch of loons - and that view hasn't changed. What's changed for me is the realization that PETA is a necessary counter force against actions like what was shown in that video. SignaturePeteCresswell > Per Matthew: >>Anything that has PETA involved is suspect and needs to be questioned [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > force > against actions like what was shown in that video. PETA is a necessary evil yes I agree with that but I don't need to watch a video that has been produced by them which no matter what ones says has always been a propaganda film as someone else pointed out. I have seen all their video evidence to know it that anything that they produce is subject to questioning Per Matthew: > I have seen all >their video evidence to know it that anything that they produce is subject >to questioning That's the only one I've seen. Frankly, I don't care to see any more. I'll probably start sending them a few bucks every year and let it go at that. The images from that one video kept me up half the night. SignaturePeteCresswell > Per Matthew: >> I have seen all [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > The > images from that one video kept me up half the night. If a few bucks buys you peace of mind then good for you but for me personal action has greater effect. Whilst I'm not vegetarian I have reduced my meat consumption to a bare minimum and I'm not feeling any the worse for it. Per Clockmeister: >Whilst I'm not vegetarian I have reduced my meat consumption to a bare >minimum and I'm not feeling any the worse for it. I'd keep an eye on my numbers. I tried total veggie - with a conscious effort to get balanced protein - for almost 2 years. Enjoyed the food, but my triglyceride and cholesterol numbers took a heavy hit - so I went back to a normal diet. Somewhere I recall reading that areas of India where the population is almost exclusively all-veggie have some of the highest death rates from heart attack in the world. Is there a connection? Dunno.... maybe somebody can elucidate. SignaturePeteCresswell > Video - Warning graphic:http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=agri_short I am Jewish and know what a Kosher kill is like...that most certainly is not it! Read a book called "Fast Food Nation" that is how most meat packing plants kill their animals...but that most certainly is NOT how Kosher is killed....and why are you posting this sh.t here? go away already >> Video - Warning >> graphic:http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=agri_short > > I am Jewish and know what a Kosher kill is like...that most certainly > is not it! You're not fooling me! Kashrut requires all animals (and birds) to be slaughtered by a trained individual (a Shochet) using a special method of slaughter, shechita. Among other features, shechita slaughter severs the jugular vein, carotid artery, oesophagus and trachea in a single cut with a smooth, sharp knife. The only redeeming thing about kosher is the overall cleanliness. Beyond that, ritualistic slaughter of animals is evil should be banned. > Read a book called "Fast Food Nation" that is how most > meat packing plants kill their animals...but that most certainly is > NOT how Kosher is killed....and why are you posting this sh.t here? > go away already Signature-- I am not the Easter Bunny --
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