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Cat Forum / General Topics / March 2007Houston Humane Society is advertising front paw declawing!!
This is disgusting! I wrote a few days ago to defend some of the HSUS practices, but this is absolutely revolting. Read what the Houston Humane Society (note: Houston, not the national HSUS) is advertising as a "Valentine's Day special" for cats (free neutering accompanied by a *reduced rate for front paw declawing*): "We will be neutering 300 male cats only (NO FEMALES) that day. There will be no general public surgery-other than the male cats. We will be declawing only a small amount of male cats for the normal price of $60 (front paws only)." The flyer also says, "Show your cat you love him on Valentine's Day by helping him live a longer, healthier life." In other words, they are really saying: show your cat you love him by mutilating his front feet. I am going to contact them and let them know exactly what I think. You can see the flyer advertising this "special" here: http://www.houstonhumane.org/spay.aspx Here is the number they listed to schedule appointment and receive pre-operative instructions: 713-433-6421 And here is the email address they listed for support and donations: admin@houstonhumane.org I don't normally cross-post, but I am including several cats' newsgroups with this message because I think it is such an abomination for a "humane society" to perform declawing, and I hope some of you will write or call.  SignatureMaryL Believe it or not they're advertising this on their web site as well. Very disgusting that they are promoting declawing. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs! www.panthertekit.com > > This is disgusting! I wrote a few days ago to defend some of the HSUS [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > with this message because I think it is such an abomination for a "humane > society" to perform declawing, and I hope some of you will write or call. > Believe it or not they're advertising this on their web site as well. Very > disgusting that they are promoting declawing. Please note that the link I posted is to the Houston Humane Society. As was discussed in this NG earlier, local groups usually are not part of the HSUS itself. I went to the HSUS page and could not find anything similar. In fact, there are a number of links there in opposition to declawing: http://www.hsus.org/ http://www.hsus.org/search.jsp -- MaryL > This is disgusting! I wrote a few days ago to defend some of the HSUS > practices, but this is absolutely revolting. Read what the Houston Humane [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > with this message because I think it is such an abomination for a "humane > society" to perform declawing, and I hope some of you will write or call. Once again, I let my fingers move faster than my brain. The Houston Humane Society is not advertising a "special rate" on declawing. The special is for free neutering, but declawing can also be done at the "regular rate" of $60.00. If anything, though, that makes it *even worse* to think that the Humane Society would think of declawing as a "normal" thing to do and would even sponsor it. I think I am going to be sick!! -- MaryL Yes, it was noted that their is a free neuter day but to bunch that in with declawing a cat as a way to promote their health is pretty disgusting. The Arizona Humane Society from what I've recalled has commented that they don't promote nor support declawing. Usually they try to educate people on what is involved with declawing. Yesterday, I was at one of the Petsmarts and a guy came in and asked Paw Placement about adopting a cat. When the question came up on how the guy feels about declawing, the guy said he supports it and that when adopting he will declaw the cat in order to protect is $15,000 couch. Anyone more worried about their couch or other object than the safety and well being of the animal shouldn't be allowed to adopt a cat. He walked away and most likely is going to try and find a group that will allow him mutilate the cat. Paw Placement has an anti-declaw policy in the adoption contract and if someone declaws a cat from their organization, they have the right to seize the cat. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs! www.panthertekit.com > >> This is disgusting! I wrote a few days ago to defend some of the HSUS [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > -- > MaryL > Yes, it was noted that their is a free neuter day but to bunch that in > with declawing a cat as a way to promote their health is pretty > disgusting. The Arizona Humane Society from what I've recalled has > commented that they don't promote nor support declawing. Usually they try > to educate people on what is involved with declawing. Yes, but I walked into the same trap as we discussed on this newsgroup several days ago. That is, I failed to differentiate between HSUS and local Humane Societies. In this case, the flyer comes specifically from the Houston Humane Society. The HSUS site discusses "Spay Day" in February, but nothing about declawing. MaryL > Yes, it was noted that their is a free neuter day but to bunch that in with > declawing a cat as a way to promote their health is pretty disgusting. Hmmm. It seems to me that cutting off a cat's nuts is a pretty substantial form of mutilation. It's done to make the animal into a more satisfactory domestic pet, right? Charlie >> Yes, it was noted that their is a free neuter day but to bunch that in >> with [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > substantial form of mutilation. It's done to make the animal into a more > satisfactory domestic pet, right? No, not primarily for that reason. It is done to prevent breeding, as there are so many unwanted animals now. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> Yes, it was noted that their is a free neuter day but to bunch that in with >> declawing a cat as a way to promote their health is pretty disgusting. > > Hmmm. It seems to me that cutting off a cat's nuts is a pretty > substantial form of mutilation. It's done to make the animal into a more > satisfactory domestic pet, right? Don't try logic, it won't work. I'd like to see a picture of the 15K couch. (Before the cat gets to it.) >>> Yes, it was noted that their is a free neuter day but to bunch that in >>> with [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I'd like to see a picture of the 15K couch. > (Before the cat gets to it.) a.s. Who is this a.s? Any thinking person would have figured out that I said spaying/neutering is ok but not declawing by claiming it too is good for a cat's health. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs! www.panthertekit.com > >>> Yes, it was noted that their is a free neuter day but to bunch that in [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I'd like to see a picture of the 15K couch. > (Before the cat gets to it.) >>> Yes, it was noted that their is a free neuter day but to bunch that in >>> with [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I'd like to see a picture of the 15K couch. > (Before the cat gets to it.) Anyone who can afford a $15,000 couch can afford to get it recovered every few years.....My four cats all attack our two couches from time to time, and the wear and tear over the course of the last 8 years or so is too minimal to worry about. If you are going to keep a pet, then you should learn to live with its character and peculiarities.....If you want a fawning, whining, creature that treats you like the God of the universe, then you should get a dog.....:^) > ....If you want a fawning, whining, creature that > treats you like the God of the universe, then you should get a > dog.....:^) Or a castrated man-slave :-) Bob Signature/"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign - Motor Vessel Tamara B X against HTML email & vCards - http://www.tamara-b.org / \ Tania Our Cat http://www.tamara-b.org/t1.jpg . . http://www.tamara-b.org/t2.jpg > >>> Yes, it was noted that their is a free neuter day but to bunch that in > >>> with [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Anyone who can afford a $15,000 couch can afford to get it recovered every > few years.... My couch didn't cost 15,000 but it cost a lot for me. Why should I accept it's destruction just to be PC and stylish? Especially when I don't have to...? > .My four cats all attack our two couches from time to time, and > the wear and tear over the course of the last 8 years or so is too minimal > to worry about. Yeah... I've set foot into homes like yours before. Everything is shredded and the air smells of an unchanged litter box. > If you are going to keep a pet, then you should learn to > live with its character and peculiarities..... Bullshit. If the pet in question wants to live a plush life of luxury instead of eating out of a garbage can, it is HE who will learn to live by MY peculiarities (i.e. RULES). And one of those peculiarities says.. 'Thou shalt not arbitrarily destroy the possessions of the one who feeds you'. Cats who live indoors don't need claws anymore. Plain and simple. You get their balls whacked off and you don't think anthing of it, now don't you...? Stupid freakin' jerk. > If you want a fawning, > whining, creature that treats you like the God of the universe, then you > should get a dog.....:^)- Hide quoted text - Why, when I can get the same thing out of my cat ? And I have :) IBen Getiner > >>> Yes, it was noted that their is a free neuter day but to bunch that in > >>> with [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Anyone who can afford a $15,000 couch can afford to get it recovered every > few years..... Bullshit. My couch didn't cost 15,000 but it cost a lot for me. Why should I accept it's destruction just to be PC and stylish? Especially when I don't have to...? > .My four cats all attack our two couches from time to time, and > the wear and tear over the course of the last 8 years or so is too minimal > to worry about. Yeah... I've set foot into homes like yours before. Everything is shredded and the air smells of an unchanged litter box. > If you are going to keep a pet, then you should learn to > live with its character and peculiarities..... Bullshit. If the pet in question wants to live in plush life of luxury instead of eating out of a garbage can, it iz HE who learn to live by MY peculiarities (i.e. RULES). And one of those peculiarities says.. 'Thou shalt not arbitrarily destroy the possessions of the one who feeds you'. Cats who live indoors don't need claws anymore. Plain and simple. You get their balls whacked off and you don't think anything of THAT, now do you...? Stupid freakin' jerk. > If you want a fawning, > whining, creature that treats you like the God of the universe, then you > should get a dog.....:^)- Hide quoted text - Why, when I can get the same thing out of my cat. And I have :) IBen Getiner On Feb 11, 5:05�pm, Dan Espen <dan...@MORE.mk.SPAMtelcordia.com> wrote: > >> Yes, it was noted that their is a free neuter day but to bunch that in with > >> declawing a cat as a way to promote their health is pretty disgusting. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Don't try logic, it won't work. Yes it will. It's worse, in fact. Because you don't have a good reason to neuter or spay an inside cat. It's all for YOUR convenience and benefit. Just like with everything else that you probably do. > I'd like to see a picture of the 15K couch. > (Before the cat gets to it.) Put a lid on it, azzhole. You're just another over-emotional nut- case. IBen Getiner > On Feb 11, 5:05�pm, Dan Espen <dan...@MORE.mk.SPAMtelcordia.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Put a lid on it, azzhole. You're just another over-emotional nut- > case. Hi IBen. Speaking of over-emotional, I think you've mis-understood my comments. Either that or there is more than 1 IBen posting here. Anyway, I'm honored. No one has EVER accused me of being over-emotional. Spok-like, but never over-emotional. > > Yes, it was noted that their is a free neuter day but > > to bunch that in with declawing a cat as a way to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > pretty substantial form of mutilation. It's done to make > the animal into a more satisfactory domestic pet, right? It's done to help reduce the sheer number of cats in the world. You do realise that one tom can be responsible for over 20,000 descendants in a single year, right..? Ivor >> > Yes, it was noted that their is a free neuter day but >> > to bunch that in with declawing a cat as a way to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Ivor So why not give the cat a vasectomy and thereby preserve the horomonal conditions bestowed by sweet Mother Nature? Charlie > So why not give the cat a vasectomy and thereby preserve the horomonal > conditions bestowed by sweet Mother Nature? Hmm, good point. >>> > Yes, it was noted that their is a free neuter day but >>> > to bunch that in with declawing a cat as a way to [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Charlie Probably because he'd still behave like an un-neutered male - mating (even thought he would be shooting blanks) and fighting. He'd have the opportunity because an un-neutered male would be much more difficult to keep in or around ones home as he'd be quite inclined to wander off looking for some 'action'. This would also put him at risk of meeting up with what my vet told me is 25% of the stray population that is testing positive for feline AIDS and/or Leukemia. From the point of actually living with him the stench from the box would be a real joy and he'd be a bit of a lousy neighbor because of his inclination to 'mark' the neighbors house, porch and/or bushes while marking his territory. If his mommy and daddy displease him or try bringing in another cat he's likely to mark every doorway in the house while marking that territory too. A un-spayed female wouldn't be any more of a picnic to live with. Although she probably wouldn't do much marking the howling and yowling while rubbing up against anything that doesn't move away fast enough could be a bit of a distraction. Getting out of the house without little Fluffy following to see if she could 'score' could be challenging. Her chances of developing breast cancer is increased as are the possibility of hefty vet bills when she runs into 'female' troubles. Both would have shorter lives because I don't think sweet Mother Nature had a 15 - 20 year life span in mind. W >> So why not give the cat a vasectomy and thereby preserve the horomonal >> conditions bestowed by sweet Mother Nature? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > keep in or around ones home as he'd be quite inclined to wander off > looking for some 'action'. This is my point -- the neutering is done for the convenience of the owner, as much as for any other reason. Certainly it alters the nature of the cat at the most basic level, substantially changing its behavior and its temperament. I will grant that de-sexing reduces the tendency of cats to engage in high-risk behavior, and so it extends their lives. But what is more important -- quantity or quality of life? I have followed the declawing debate in this group a number of times. One of the arguments against declawing is that it deprives a cat of something fundamental to its nature, and therefore diminishes its quality of life. But the people with declawed cats deny that this is the case. They say their pets seem happy and contented, to which the anti-declawers respond by saying it's an illusion; cats are good at masking their suffering. If that is true, then how can the anti-declawers assure themselves that neutering doesn't have a similar effect? Charlie >>> So why not give the cat a vasectomy and thereby preserve the horomonal >>> conditions bestowed by sweet Mother Nature? [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Charlie I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I find no good reason to leave cat intact. There are far too many cats out there that nobody is taking care of. The fact is that people aren't going to keep a cat (in far too many instances) if they are spraying, yowling and marking the neighborhood. They aren't going to want the vet bills to take Muffy or Buffy to the vet regularly to get the abscesses from cat bites treated. If they do keep him, they will be heart broken when kitty sickens and dies at 8 or 9 from health issues that could have been avoided or even much younger when they are found dead in the road. The cat isn't better off engaging in behavior that can get him sick and/or dead. I grew up with a intact male cat. My mom blamed my dad for not getting him neutered but either way, Sniffy ended up with no ears because they were ripped and bitten off in cat fights. He had to have his various wounds treated every morning after he got a little older and started losing the fights to the young turks on the block and he died at 9 of mouth cancer. If he were out there today he probably would have contracted feline AIDS or Leukemia. My mom had to listen to irate neighbors calling to complain about him peeing on their front porch and he did mark every doorway on the first floor of the house when she had the nerve to bring in a kitten. He was no happier than my two neutered boys and died young. Wendy >>>> So why not give the cat a vasectomy and thereby preserve the horomonal >>>> conditions bestowed by sweet Mother Nature? [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > Wendy I believe the basis of Charlie's opinion is the excessive importance men place upon their own testicles. Those little eggs in their hairy sack are all tied up in their personalities in ways no ovaries have ever influenced a woman's psyche. Charlie is generally a bright and circumspect man, but he is after all, only a man. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > I believe the basis of Charlie's opinion is the excessive importance men > place [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Charlie is generally a bright and circumspect man, but he is after all, only > a man. OMG, that made me laugh! Can I keep a copy of your post and repost it every now and then as the subject comes up? Rhonda (still snickering) >> I believe the basis of Charlie's opinion is the excessive importance men >> place [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Rhonda (still snickering) Why, yes, of course, Rhonda! I think it may be funny because it has the ring of truth. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Well I'm a guy and had no problem getting Icarus neutered. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs! www.panthertekit.com > >>>>> So why not give the cat a vasectomy and thereby preserve the horomonal [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > Charlie is generally a bright and circumspect man, but he is after all, > only a man. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "cybercat" <cyberpurrs@yahoo.com> >I believe the basis of Charlie's opinion is the excessive importance men >place >upon their own testicles. Those little eggs in their hairy sack are all tied >up in >their personalities in ways no ovaries have ever influenced a woman's >psyche. Sure. Right. When you've got women claiming that PMS caused them to commit murder? When women claim menopause is causing them to screw up at their jobs? When post partem depression "causes" women to kill their children? I'll even bet your ovaries caused you to make those moronic statements and that your ovaries will cause you to write something even more stupid and bitchy in response to this post. And your ovaries will even make you think that you are clever. And the ovaries of other women will make them think you have a valid point. ======================= Women have spent the last 30 years proving that men have been right for the last 30 centuries. ======================= "Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message > Sure. Right. > When you've got women claiming that PMS caused them to commit > murder? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > And the ovaries of other women will make them think you have a > valid point. Yeah.....Most of the women I know say that they spent their teenage years thinking with their sex organs, and it wasn't until they grew up that they started using their brains....but I have to admit that many of us men never grow up, and spend most of out lives thinking with our sex organs.....I think it was GB Shaw that said the chief advantage of old age is that you can go about your life without thinking about sex all the time...... > Charlie is generally a bright and circumspect man, but he is after all, only > a man. Of course. Thank you for putting me in a flattering perspective. Charlie >> Charlie is generally a bright and circumspect man, but he is after all, >> only >> a man. >> > Of course. Thank you for putting me in a flattering perspective. :) You're welcome. You have had so many flattering things to say about the "ladies" of rpch+b. Or was it, "cat ladies?" Hmm. Maybe it was "hysterical cat ladies." I just cannot recall. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > I grew up with a intact male cat. My mom blamed my dad for not getting him > neutered but either way, Sniffy ended up with no ears because they were [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > floor of the house when she had the nerve to bring in a kitten. He was no > happier than my two neutered boys and died young. Poor cat! Sounds like he had a rough life. I always like to watch when this subject comes up -- it's usually by a guy. For some reason, many guys seem to take a cat's neuter personally. They put their own feelings into it as if it happened to them. I don't think it bothers them so much that the female getting spayed is going to go through hormone changes and probably hot flashes and everything else, but it really bothers them to "have a cat's nuts chopped off." Cats also should not be eating commercial cat food, they should be eating live mice. We should be providing several mice for them every day. There are some compromises they have to put up with because they are domestic pets. In turn, they get more comfortable and longer lives. If they weren't spayed and neutered, they'd be tossed outside, and then cats would take over the world. Hey, maybe that's a good idea? Rhonda > Cats also should not be eating commercial cat food, they should be eating > live mice. We should be providing several mice for them every day. No, they should have to hunt down, kill, and eat several mice a day. (My girls apparently took down two mice that found their way inside, about a year apart. There was not a scratch on the pretty little creatures, and both cats were staring their demand for breakfast at me over their little mousie bodies.) (My girls apparently took down two mice that found their way inside, > about a year apart. There was not a scratch on the pretty little > creatures, > and both cats were staring their demand for breakfast at me over their > little mousie bodies.) I saw a young squirrel actually walk over my sleeping "Meggie" cat out on our back deck last Summer. She is so mellow, even the squirrels pay no attention to her. She plays with the baby raccoons, too..... > (My girls apparently took down two mice that found their way inside, >> about a year apart. There was not a scratch on the pretty little [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > our back deck last Summer. She is so mellow, even the squirrels pay no > attention to her. She plays with the baby raccoons, too..... We need some pictures ... ;) SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> (My girls apparently took down two mice that found their way inside, >>> about a year apart. There was not a scratch on the pretty little [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > We need some pictures ... ;) Don't think I haven't tried....I am also in a photographer group (rec.photo.equipment.35mm) and I would love to post a few....The problem is, things like the above only happen once in a blue moon, and then only for a few seconds, and then the "moment is past".....I haven't got the patience to be a wildlife photographer..... > I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I find no good reason > to leave cat intact. I'm not arguing from conviction but rather from the standpoint of a skeptic. I neutered my own male cat, and if he is less than happy he conceals it admirably. My point is not that neutering is bad, but that it is as invasive as declawing, and people should perhaps re-examine their beliefs to evaluate how much they are based on a real knowledge of feline nature, and how much on woo-woo emotionalism. Charlie >> I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I find no good >> reason [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Charlie I think that declawing is much more painful than neutering....When I had my male cat neutered, it seemed (to me) that it didn't bother him at all....After he slept off the anesthetic, he was his old playful self in a matter of a couple of hours. Also, it didn't interfere with his ability to hunt, climb trees, run across the roof after squirrels and birds or anything that he loves to do. Of course, there is no way you can get inside his mind and tell what he is thinking, (like the democrats can get inside Bush's mind) but it would seem to me that if a cat is playing after two hours, it can't be that painful..... > I think that declawing is much more painful than neutering....When I had my > male cat neutered, it seemed (to me) that it didn't bother him at > all Mebbe. Dont suport declqawing but hd a cat that died frm a spay operaton. >> I think that declawing is much more painful than neutering....When I had >> my [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Mebbe. Dont suport declqawing but hd a cat that died frm a spay > operaton. My wife did too.....Many years ago. But it was a combination spay and shots. This is a neutering that I will have dons to Smokey, and I will get him his shots at a later date.....He's pretty tough, so I think it's a worthwhile thing to do...... >> I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I find no good >> reason [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Charlie De-clawing serves no health benefit for the cat at all unless you accept the bogus threats that people will euthanize if they can't de-claw. They are more likely to dump the cat somewhere rather than pay to kill it. Trust me people don't want to part with the buck and will take the path of least resistance. It's easy and cheap to drive poor Buffy to somewhere else and dump him and even easier to just lock him out. Neutering OTOH can extend the life of the cat by years. I don't see the connection. W >>>> So why not give the cat a vasectomy and thereby preserve the horomonal >>>> conditions bestowed by sweet Mother Nature? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> the cat at the most basic level, substantially changing its behavior and >> its temperament. Feral male cats only live about 5 years on the average. If you get them neutered, they will usually become domesticated and life long healthy lives. If I cared only for myself, I wouldn't bother. But I would like my feral male to live a long time, so I am willing to go to some trouble and expense to get him neutered. (as well as get vaccinated for various diseases) Where the hell do you get your information from? Feral cats will never be domesticated even after the spay/neuter surgery and normally shy away from humans accept maybe their caretaker. Even domestic cats can never have the wild predatory nature bred out of them. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs! www.panthertekit.com > Feral male cats only live about 5 years on the average. If you get them > neutered, they will usually become domesticated and life long healthy > lives. If I cared only for myself, I wouldn't bother. But I would like my > feral male to live a long time, so I am willing to go to some trouble and > expense to get him neutered. (as well as get vaccinated for various > diseases) > Where the hell do you get your information from? Feral cats will never be > domesticated even after the spay/neuter surgery and normally shy away from > humans accept maybe their caretaker. Even domestic cats can never have the > wild predatory nature bred out of them. I presume you are talking to me....All of my "information" comes from my own experience. I have known several feral cats who have been taken in and become as "domesticated" as the other cats in the same household. Our Smokey is half domesticated right now, and he was as wild as the wind about 4 years ago....It has taken us 4 years to get him to come in the house and sleep and eat here. We could have done it quicker had we trapped him and locked him in, but we don't have "inside cats"...All of our cats come and go as they like through three cat doors that we have leading to the front and the back yard of our house. The only time I trapped Smokey in the house was to teach him to use the cat doors.....He didn't know how until I pulled a string one day and slid the glass door in the bedroom shut and trapped him inside until he learned to use them. All animals are basically wild. Even dogs came from wolves. The younger you domesticate them the better, but you can domesticate them at any age if you are patient enough. I did it with Smokey by feeding him chopped, roasted chicken, and moving the bowl a little bit closer to the house every day, until I had him eating it in our bedroom. The first time I touched him, I held the bowl while he was eating out of it, while I was lying down on the floor, so I would be as short as he was......It's called, "Patience", and you have to have it. I am also using it with you........:^) >> Where the hell do you get your information from? Feral cats will never be >> domesticated even after the spay/neuter surgery and normally shy away from [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > lying down on the floor, so I would be as short as he was......It's called, > "Patience", and you have to have it. I am also using it with you........:^) You are conflating patience with condescension. SignatureRegards, Nicolaas. ... Boycott shampoo - demand the real thing. >>> Where the hell do you get your information from? Feral cats will never >>> be [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > You are conflating patience with condescension. I am afraid you are right, Nicolaas.....And apparently, I am also wasting my time......:^) You have no experience. Feral cats can't be domesticated. They'll still be feral to some degree and most will hide if you take them indoors. I find it amusing that when it comes to dealing with this one feral cat you want someone else to do your work for you. When someone calls you out on your experience you now post you have all of this experience. The only thing you have demonstrated is that you are lazy and want others to do your work for you. Why else would you have a friend come clear across town to load a cat into a carrier in order to take him to the clinic to have him neutered? The answer, because you can't get off your fat lazy a.s and help the cat by trapping him yourself and getting him to the clinic to be neutered. Just admit to this and you'd be doing us all a favor so we don't have to waste any more time trying to help you. First you asked for advise and then when it's given you start making excuses on why you can't trap the cat yourself or take him to the clinic in order to get him neutered. The only trauma the cat will face is you doing nothing and him siring a litter of kittens because you were too lazy to have him trapped and brought to the clinic. And if your theory of the cat associating the trauma is true (which it's about as bogus as they come) then what about the next time another feral cat needs help? Are you going to call the same friend to come and do the job? Oh, yeah you subscibe to the trauma theory which doesn't really exist and will call someone else to help. All 3 of my cats are spayed and neuterd. One of them I got in the carrier and to the clinic to be neutered. Did he hate me for it? Hell no. There was no trauma. I know many people who have trapped feral cats, got them to the clinic and then had them re-released. The ferals still came up to that person when it came time to leave out food and water. Feral cats will shy away from most humans but will eventually come up to one caretaker. It's obvious to all of us that you have no experience when it comes to cats. Just admit it and move on. I think the only thing you are doing is wasting time because you insist on having others do the work for you. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs! www.panthertekit.com > I presume you are talking to me....All of my "information" comes from my > own experience. I have known several feral cats who have been taken in and [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > floor, so I would be as short as he was......It's called, "Patience", and > you have to have it. I am also using it with you........:^) "Cat Protector" <catprotector@cox.net> wrote in message > you. Why else would you have a friend come clear across town to load a cat > into a carrier in order to take him to the clinic to have him neutered? The > answer, because you can't get off your fat lazy a.s and help the cat by > trapping him yourself and getting him to the clinic to be neutered. You're kind of slow aren't you? He told you exactly why he wanted someone else to do transporting to the vet and getting the neutering done. It was so the cat wouldn't associate those unpleasant actions to him and might go a long way to preserving what trust he'd built up with this feral cat. I'm not arguing about the validity of what he wanted, just pointing out that it's one possible route to go. It has *ABSOLUTELY NOTHING* to do with being lazy. Is that so hard for you to understand? So, why don't you get off your fat lazy a.s and engage what little brain power you have towards understanding what he was saying? I'm slow? Hell no! I'm just pointing out how lazy this guy is being. He claims to have all this experience but when it comes to one cat he wants others to do the job for him. Sorry, I have no sympathy here for him. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs! www.panthertekit.com > You're kind of slow aren't you? He told you exactly why he wanted someone > else to do transporting to the vet and getting the neutering done. It was [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > lazy a.s and engage what little brain power you have towards understanding > what he was saying? "Cat Protector" <catprotector@cox.net> wrote in message > Hell no! I'm just pointing out how lazy this guy is being. He > claims to have all this experience but when it comes to one cat he wants > others to do the job for him. Sorry, I have no sympathy here for him. Sorry, but I fail to see how you equate this with simply being lazy. Admittedly, I have zero experience with feral cats, but I do know it takes time to build up a measure of trust with them. If I'd taken time to build up that trust with a feral cat, then I'd want to minimize chances of damaging that trust. To me anyway, it's logical that putting a feral cat into some sort of transportation container or enclosed space could easily damage that trust. What's the big deal in his attempting to prevent such a cat from associating these actions to him? Geez, if he was as lazy and uncaring as you imply, then he certainly wouldn't be feeding the cat and most certainly wouldn't be offering to pay any veterinarian bills for the cat. Feral cat rescues have been trapping cats for years with no ill effects. The only thing that happened is the cats got spayed and neutered. The next excuse this guy will probably have is not to trap because then the next cat will relate it to the group or individual that did the work for him. This guy is simply being lazy and wanting to pay others to do a simple and easy job. He claimed he contacted feral cat rescues but said they were no help. This guy probably called them and said he wanted someone to do it for him. Most likely they asked him if he can get the cat into the carrier and transport because they are overwhelmed with calls. He probably pitched his excuse to them and decided he didn't want to be on a waiting list. This guy claims he has past experiences with feral cats but I'm doubting it. Most of those who work for feral cat organizations will state that they have not had any problems being able to trap a feral cat, get them to the clinic, have them spayed or neutered, and then re-released. If this guy is going to make all these excuses as to why he can't trap the feral, imagine what excuses he uses for his indoor cats. Is he going to call everyone in the phone book to have them come over and put his cat in a carrier for him in order to get the animal to the vet by saying the cat will be traumatized. I think all this guy has done is make excuses as to why he isn't trapping this cat and getting the animal to a clinic to be neutered. Offering excuses doesn't help this cat. What happens is this cat will continue to sire a litter of unwanted kittens which only adds to the overpopulation problem. This guy pretty lazy or else he would have gotten up, trapped the cat and brought him to the clinic to be neutered a long time ago. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs! www.panthertekit.com > Sorry, but I fail to see how you equate this with simply being lazy. > Admittedly, I have zero experience with feral cats, but I do know it takes [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > wouldn't be feeding the cat and most certainly wouldn't be offering to pay > any veterinarian bills for the cat. > "Cat Protector" <catprotector@cox.net> wrote in message >> Hell no! I'm just pointing out how lazy this guy is being. He [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > wouldn't be feeding the cat and most certainly wouldn't be offering to pay > any veterinarian bills for the cat. Thank you, Upscale, but I think you are wasting your time (as I have) talking to this troll. He has already decided to believe what he wants to believe. And he might be correct when he says that Smokey won't be alienated by my bringing him to the vet.....It's just that I don't know that, and I am not willing to take the troll's word for it.....I want a little extra insurance before I take that step. Smokey is almost too old to father any more children anyway, so there is no pressing need to have him neutered, but it would be better for his health, so I will do it anyway. (and get him his shots at the same time) Different cats have different personalities. Smokey is very intelligent, and very well adapted to caring for himself....After 6 years or so of feral activities, he doesn't have any wounds or scars, and still has all of his ears....And he is a fairly small cat. This tells me that he is intelligent and street wise. I'm not a troll. I've been a part of this group way longer than you have. But still the word stands. You are lazy and now after being called out on it are trying to play like you're the saint. Nice try but those with intelligence know better. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs! www.panthertekit.com > Thank you, Upscale, but I think you are wasting your time (as I have) > talking to this troll. He has already decided to believe what he wants to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > has all of his ears....And he is a fairly small cat. This tells me that he > is intelligent and street wise. > Where the hell do you get your information from? Feral cats will never be > domesticated even after the spay/neuter surgery and normally shy away from [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> expense to get him neutered. (as well as get vaccinated for various >> diseases) Not true! My first cat was feral, estimated to be about 8 months of age when I trapped him. It took about two years before I would say that he was truly bonded, but after that he was a wonderful, loving companion -- one of the best and most loving cats I have seen. He lived to be almost 20 years of age (assuming that the 8 months at the time of adoption was correct, that would have made him 19-3/4 when he died). He was a marvelous cat and became a completely trusting (and trustworthy) cat after the first two years. MaryL MaryL >> Where the hell do you get your information from? Feral cats will never be >> domesticated even after the spay/neuter surgery and normally shy away [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > MaryL Did you ever get him neutered? You got him rather young, too.....I suspect that the younger you get them, the easier it is to domesticate them....Especially if you neuter them.....Ours was at least two years old when I first saw him hunting along our rear property line, and it took me over a year to get him to come into the bedroom to eat his chopped roasted chicken.....It was around two years before he spent the night inside the house. The 5 year statistic is what I have read other places......Ours is over that already, but we took the pressure of having to hunt away from him, and he always has a warm place to sleep, too...... >>> Where the hell do you get your information from? Feral cats will never >>> be domesticated even after the spay/neuter surgery and normally shy away [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > over that already, but we took the pressure of having to hunt away from > him, and he always has a warm place to sleep, too...... Yes, I agree that "the younger, the better" when it comes to socializing feral cats. Many people say even 8 months (my cat's age) is too old for socializing a feral cat, but it worked beautifully for him. One of the first things I did was to have him neutered, and he also became an indoor-only cat after I adopted him -- something else that many people say will not work with a (formerly) feral cat, but I was able to do it. I did spend a great many hours just getting to know him and letting him take his time in getting to know me. I was in graduate school at that time and lived in town, and eventually I was even able to train him to walk on a harness and leash so I could take him outdoors. MaryL >>>> Where the hell do you get your information from? Feral cats will never >>>> be domesticated even after the spay/neuter surgery and normally shy [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > MaryL Well, we have three other cats, and they are all outdoor cats, so keeping the feral car indoors was impossible.....I had to pull a string attached to the sliding glass door of our bedroom in order to force him to learn to use the cat doors, however. ( I trapped him in the house until he learned how to go out) Now, he is almost like the other three cats, but just a little more skittish.....He won't stay in the house when we have any visitors.....Only my wife and myself can touch him......but he loves to be brushed, and I think that is what really, "domesticated" him. If he wants brushing, we are his only hope....... >> Yes, I agree that "the younger, the better" when it comes to socializing >> feral cats. Many people say even 8 months (my cat's age) is too old for [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > brushed, and I think that is what really, "domesticated" him. If he wants > brushing, we are his only hope....... My cat was an "only cat" for his entire life, so that may have made a difference. He also loved to be brushed. He had medium-long fur, and when I trapped/adopted him, he was such a mass of mats and tangles that I could see his skin being stretched from one mat to another (so tight it literally "lifted"). It must have been very painful for him. Looking back on it, I am amazed myself that everything worked out so well. He was my first cat! If I had known then what I know now, I would have known that it isn't sensible to adopt a feral cat as the first cat -- I would have known that more experience is necessary. Well, lucky me and lucky him! I didn't know that, so I just set to work socializing him, and he became an absolutely wonderful companion. He also was a happy cat who literally became the little "king" of my domain. True kitty royalty. I'm going to look for some of his photos (this was years ago, long before digital cameras) and try to scan some to add to the pics listed under my signature. MaryL Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'< Duffy: http://tinyurl.com/cslwf Holly: http://tinyurl.com/9t68o Duffy and Holly together: http://tinyurl.com/8b47e >>> Yes, I agree that "the younger, the better" when it comes to socializing >>> feral cats. Many people say even 8 months (my cat's age) is too old for [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > MaryL Cats are habit forming....We had one, and when she died, we said, "We'll never get another cat, because no one can ever be as good as, "Missy" was.....But then, the cat from across the street, (Meggie) adopted us because her family got a dog, and then the mother of the lady next door died, and her husband was allergic to cats, so we got Juney, and one night, just before they closed, I was in the Burger King parking lot, and a young black cat was pawing at my burger bag saying, "Can I have some of your hamburgers dad?" and so we picked up, "B-K". And so, together with Smokey, the feral cat, we have four of them! On Mar 6, 8:49�pm, "MaryL" <stanco...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote: > > Where the hell do you get your information from? Feral cats will never be > > domesticated even after the spay/neuter surgery and normally shy away from [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > MaryL I was waiting on someone to debunk that bunk. I know *many* people who've trapped & adopted ferals who became wonderful companions. I'm sure a lot of people here remember Cheryl & Bonnie. Phil also has ex- ferals. They're difficult to tame, and require endless patience, skill, and an understanding of the feral cat. I have the utmost admiration for those who have successfully tamed ferals. Sherry On Mar 6, 8:49?pm, "MaryL" <stanco...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote: > "Cat Protector" <catprotec...@cox.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > MaryL I was waiting on someone to debunk that bunk. I know *many* people who've trapped & adopted ferals who became wonderful companions. I'm sure a lot of people here remember Cheryl & Bonnie. Phil also has ex- ferals. They're difficult to tame, and require endless patience, skill, and an understanding of the feral cat. I have the utmost admiration for those who have successfully tamed ferals. Sherry I believe you can tame any wild animal with enough patience, and if you don't mind getting scratched and/or bitten from time to time.....However, I wouldn't recommend it with animals that are big enough to eat you alive.....:^) But even some domestic cats can be nasty and hard to get along with. My wife's daughter has one who is too old to jump up on the counter to eat. (they have a dog who eats the cat food if it's on the floor) So she whines to be picked up. But, as soon as you set her down on the counter, she turns and spits at you and tried to scratch you....Then, as soon as she is done eating, she whines to be let down. (the jump hurts her arthritic joints) and when you do, she again hisses and spits at you for touching her...... Has she always done that? Maybe it hurts her when she picked up?? SignatureBarb > > On Mar 6, 8:49?pm, "MaryL" <stanco...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > her arthritic joints) and when you do, she again hisses and spits at you > for touching her...... > Has she always done that? Maybe it hurts her when she picked up?? Yes, she has always been something of a bitch who didn't particularly like people, and who didn't like being touched or messed with......It's just part of her nasty personality. And when they got the dog, who eats her food, that didn't help, either. But you'd think that when you do something to help her, she would be nice to you for a few seconds, at least.....They have another cat, and she doesn't get along with her, either.....:^) > On Mar 6, 8:49?pm, "MaryL" <stanco...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > joints) and when you do, she again hisses and spits at you for touching > her......- Hide quoted text - I have one who absolutely *hates* to be picked up, and another who only lets DH touch her. Cats are just so funny, affection is certainly on *their* terms. I guess there are different levels of "tame" re: ferals also. It's certainly possible that they'll always be more leery of humans than a cat raised with people. I just hated to see minsinformation like that posted about ferals. I've got three ferals I brought in from the shelter that were scheduled for euthanasia. I figured being a barn cat was a better life for them than being dead. I've had them for several years now. I have not tried to tame them, but I do feed them every day. They're pretty calm around me now, but not anyone else. Sherry >> On Mar 6, 8:49?pm, "MaryL" <stanco...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > day. They're pretty calm around me now, but not anyone else. > Sherry I like them because I respect independence....It's just part of my personality. My cousin used to have three "wild" cats that kept the birds away from her grapes. (She and her husband were part owners of Sovereign Vineyards) these were really lean, mean Siamese breeds. She never fed them, but only gave them water. They were able to sustain themselves by eating birds and mice on the grape farm. But they seemed to like the company of people, and when they weren't hunting, they would sleep around 20 feet or so from us while we were talking on my cousin's veranda. > >> "Sherry" <sridd...@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 97 lines] > people, and when they weren't hunting, they would sleep around 20 feet or so > from us while we were talking on my cousin's veranda.- Hide quoted text - Oh yes. I have a lot of respect for "the working cat too. Honestly, they provide a necessary service. I do feed mine but I suspect their major diet is rats and mice. One curious thing about them. They look *different* than my house cats. Their ears are bigger for one thing. But mostly, they are really beautifully built. They have good coats, and are lean and muscled. I wonder if it's the mice :-) It's not a bad life really. I brought home four of them, the H.S. got them neutered before I picked them up. One, sadly, came to a very bad end. I found him dead in the pasture, but he was too decomposed to tell what happened to him. The other three are thriving. It's been nearly five years since I got them. I never named them either, that's weird for me. I guess I was afraid I'd get too attached to them and end up with four more cats in the house. They will come to me very close, but won't let me touch them. I had a cat with a seriously nasty personality like yours. He was so bad I noticed the word FRACTIOUS written in giant red letters on top of his vet's chart. I loved that cat dearly. I've still got scars from his temper tantrums. Sherry Sherry > I believe you can tame any wild animal with enough patience, and if you > don't mind getting scratched and/or bitten from time to time.....However, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > her arthritic joints) and when you do, she again hisses and spits at you > for touching her...... Well, it certainly should be clear that we should not try to socialize an animal "big enough to eat you alive. That would be sheer lunacy. However, concerning your illustration of the cat that spits and tries to scratch as soon as she is put down...some cats simply do not like to be held. *They* want to make the decision, not their hoomins. So, why not suggest that your wife's daughter set up some carpeted steps that lead to the counter? They are sold at a variety of pet stores (or could easily be made). Even a step ladder with wide steps could be set up as a temporary arrangement if she doesn't want the counter to be available to her cat at all times. MaryL >> I believe you can tame any wild animal with enough patience, and if you >> don't mind getting scratched and/or bitten from time to time.....However, [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > MaryL That would work if it weren't for the dog....This dog is something else.....Just a puppy, but big as a house, and on the run all the time.....He would scamper up any staircase that would work for the cat. but the dog is growing up.....Maybe he'll settle down in a year or two...... > That would work if it weren't for the dog....This dog is something > else.....Just a puppy, but big as a house, and on the run all the > time.....He would scamper up any staircase that would work for the cat. but > the dog is growing up.....Maybe he'll settle down in a year or two...... I had a friend with an Irish Setter that was always on the move. Well, that's putting it lightly. I personally saw that dog circle a room mostly running on the walls. He ran straight across my chest while I was sitting down. He often said the dog would eventually settle down. The dog lived to old age. He settled down about a month before he died. >> That would work if it weren't for the dog....This dog is something >> else.....Just a puppy, but big as a house, and on the run all the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > He settled down about a month before he died. Reminds me of the dog my sister had many years ago....She was a civilian employee of the US Army, and she was stationed in Teheran. She got "Pandy" on the streets of that city when he was a puppy....He grew enormous, and had this penchant for killing other dogs.....He got loose once, and ran down the street (In San Diego, California) killing neighborhood dogs as he went..... He would do the same thing....Run around and around her living room on the walls. >>> That would work if it weren't for the dog....This dog is something >>> else.....Just a puppy, but big as a house, and on the run all the [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > He would do the same thing....Run around and around her living room on the > walls. Before I saw it first hand I would have said it was impossible. Never heard of dog killer. What kind of dog was that? >>>> That would work if it weren't for the dog....This dog is something >>>> else.....Just a puppy, but big as a house, and on the run all the [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Never heard of dog killer. What kind of dog was that? He was a mix.....Looked kind of like a wire haired terrier, with kind of a square snout, except he was a lot bigger, so one of his parents must have been enormous....... "Charlie Wilkes" <charlie_wilkes@users.easynews.com> wrote in message news:6fNzh.66728> So why not give the cat a vasectomy and thereby preserve the horomonal > conditions bestowed by sweet Mother Nature? > > Charlie You can do that....For over $1000 per cat. But even for that, it won't help the cats tendency to wander a long way from home, and annoy the trailer park neighbors down the hill, who will shoot it with their 22 rifles and BB guns, so your $1000 investment will just end up killing the cat anyway....The average male feral cat only lives about 5 years....... >>> > Yes, it was noted that their is a free neuter day but >>> > to bunch that in with declawing a cat as a way to [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Charlie Since you seem to be looking for reasons why neutering a pet is good for its health, let me tell you that a vasectomy doesn't cut it (no pun intended - but it is a good one) as it might rejoin.. also you will still need to worry about testicular cancer... no testicles, no cancer. And yes, neutering does make a pet more satisfactory pet.. and frankly it seems to make the pet happier, as it no longer has to spend the rest of it's life fighting for territory and mating rights, no longer has to spend its days spraying and marking territory. Doesn't need to wander around to make sure no one else is edging in on said territory.. You want a cat that doesn't look 'mutilated' get neuticles. That way if your pet ever gets lost and ends up in a shelter, it will have to go through surgery again when the shelter doesn't realize the pet is altered.. Declawing - that is a whole different kettle of fish. There weren't any studies for years about the negative effects of declawing a cat. Now there are, and they are showing it causes all kinds of health and behavioral issues, including arthritis. It always amazed me that declawing a cat was perfectly acceptable, but declawing a dog was heresy. Every time I bring it up, people defend dogs, and say they don't do damage with their claws, but I have seen a wide variety of damage done by dog claws on floors, on doors, etc. > Declawing - that is a whole different kettle of fish. There weren't any > studies for years about the negative effects of declawing a cat. Now there > are, and they are showing it causes all kinds of health and behavioral > issues, including arthritis. Can you cite this? Charlie > So why not give the cat a vasectomy and thereby preserve the horomonal > conditions bestowed by sweet Mother Nature? > > Charlie- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Because he will still spray inside your house, scream for female attention, and defend his territory - and if that's outside, he risks catching some deadly viruses - aside from the normal bloody battles. >> So why not give the cat a vasectomy and thereby preserve the horomonal >> conditions bestowed by sweet Mother Nature? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > attention, and defend his territory - and if that's outside, he risks > catching some deadly viruses - aside from the normal bloody battles. Not only that, but he will leave your house for weeks at a time, and one day, within 5 or 6 years, he will leave and never come back. An unfixed male cat is basically a wild cat, even though he was raised around human beings. He has to find and stake out a new territory, and in a world crowded with automobiles and teenagers armed with 22's and BB guns, he doesn't stand much of a chance....... > It's done to help reduce the sheer number of cats in the world. Actually, it's done to absolve humans of any responsibility towards their captive animal friends. It is soly for the connivance of the Human. > do realise that one tom can be responsible for over 20,000 > descendants in a single year, right..? Your argument is only valid if you are talking about spay/neuter of stray/feral cats. It is NOT the strays who are being mutilated, but rather the house cats. Tania, our 7 year old female is not spay, and she has never produced any offspring. If by some accident on OUR PART, she were to have kittens, we would take responsibility for them; either by finding proper homes or by making them part of the family. Bob Signature/"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign - Motor Vessel Tamara B X against HTML email & vCards - http://www.tamara-b.org / \ Tania Our Cat http://www.tamara-b.org/t1.jpg . . http://www.tamara-b.org/t2.jpg Can you actually repost this? Your message came across blank. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs! www.panthertekit.com Tania, our 7 year old female is not spay, and she has never produced any offspring. If by some accident on OUR PART, she were to have kittens, we would take responsibility for them; either by finding proper homes or by making them part of the family. Bob To keep a non-neutered animal away from sexual activity when they are "in season" is cruel and unnecessary....Why not have your female spayed? My two females are spayed, and my male is neutered, and they are perfectly happy, and stay close to the house, since there is no reason for them to wander. This greatly decreases the probability that they will get run down by a car or killed by some gun-toting teenager....We do feed a male feral cat who isn't neutered, but he belongs to himself, and not to us. If I ever feel that he is "mine", then I will trap him and have him neutered. > Tania, our 7 year old female is not spay, and she has never produced > any offspring. If by some accident on OUR PART, she were to have [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > cat who isn't neutered, but he belongs to himself, and not to us. If I > ever feel that he is "mine", then I will trap him and have him neutered. Arguing with idiots makes your face tired. Bob, get that cat spayed. All it takes is her getting out and one encounter to have a litter of kittens. By not having a cat spayed or neutered you will only be adding to the overpopulation problem. Feral cats should also be spayed and neutered as soon as possible. Last year was a record breaking cat and kitten season with many unwanted litters being born. Many rescue groups were overwhelmed by felines were filled to capacity. BTW, since you are feeding the feral cat you have a responsibility to have him neutered unless you want him spraying all over the place. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs! www.panthertekit.com > > Tania, our 7 year old female is not spay, and she has never produced [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > cat who isn't neutered, but he belongs to himself, and not to us. If I > ever feel that he is "mine", then I will trap him and have him neutered. > Bob, get that cat spayed. All it takes is her getting out and one > encounter to have a litter of kittens. By not having a cat spayed or [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > responsibility to have him neutered unless you want him spraying all over > the place. This is easy to say, but hard to do. If I were to catch Smokey and throw him in a cat carrier, and take him to the Vet to get neutered, he might never come to our house again. I would be happy to pay somebody else to do it for me, so Smokey wouldn't associate his bad experience with me or my wife, but the various "Feral cat coalitions" and other such organizations won't do that....They just repeat things like you said above, which I know to be true, but it doesn't help my problem. > This is easy to say, but hard to do. If I were to catch Smokey and throw > him in a cat carrier, and take him to the Vet to get neutered, he might > never come to our house again. Nonsense. Shame on you. Are you saying that is hard to get a trap, put food in it and then have the cat enter it in order to get the cat? Don't you have a group in your area that handles the trap, neuter and return option for feral cats? As for bad experiences, I have not seen or heard of one feral cat that has had a tramatic experience from being trapped, spayed or neutered and then re-released back in the area they were found. If a feral cat group says they won't come out and trap it may be because they are overwhelmed and are hoping that the caretaker will be kind enough to do it for them. Here in Phoenix groups like AzCATs volunteers are often in short supply so whoever the caretaker is, they are often asked to help. If you truly care about this cat as much as you say you do, then I'd advise you do the humane trapping yourself and get the cat to the clinic to have the neuter surgery done. The problem is not going to be solved by trying to take the lazy way out and making excuses. Perhaps you should contact Alleycat Allies for instructions on trapping. Their web addy is www.alleycat.org. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs! www.panthertekit.com > This is easy to say, but hard to do. If I were to catch Smokey and throw > him in a cat carrier, and take him to the Vet to get neutered, he might [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > won't do that....They just repeat things like you sa |
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