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Cat Forum / General Topics / March 2004Bonnie is a regular cat
Bonnie the feral has slowly become a normal cat. She was trapped last May and in this time she's been interesting to watch "come around". She started off her tamed-self by gathering in the kitchen at mealtime with my other cats, even though she wanted no part of what the others were eating. She only eats dry food and Shadow can't have too much of that. Just enough to satisfy his apparent need to crunch. Very slowly her braveness has evolved to sleeping on my bed, jumping on the couch next to me and letting me pet her, to her setting her paw on my lap as if she wants to sit on me. The first time she sat on my lap she looked so uncomfortable. lol Her head on one of my knees (I was sitting cross legged) and her back feet on the other knee, her middle down low on my ankles. If I made a sudden move, she was gone in a shot. She's always had a problem if I move around the house too fast. She is a small cat and it must be scary to have a person towering over her rushing around. But that is my normal morning. She has finally caught on and doesn't freak out when I keep walking past her at a high rate of speed; making coffee, getting clothes from the laundry room, scooping up Shadow and Shamrock for their morning meds, scooping litter boxes, running the shower and disappearing behind the curtain and then reappearing. It must be so weird for her. I remember the first time she freaked out at the mirror when she realized I was behind her, not in front of her where she was watching me in the reflection. After this long time, she now allows me to pick her up. Not willingly, but she settles when she realizes I'm not going to hurt her. I've had many cats over the years but she is the first that was born in the wild and even though she was only 4-5 months old when she was trapped, I've never known a cat who took so long to become "tame".  SignatureCheryl I am a very happy person. It's just that I have no patients for stupidity. - IBen Getiner > Bonnie the feral has slowly become a normal cat. I should have linked her photo album. :) http://community.webshots.com/album/75552731ngVsAM SignatureCheryl I am a very happy person. It's just that I have no patients for stupidity. - IBen Getiner This tale is one of the strangest I've ever read here on this strangest of strange NG's, because almost everyone I know who is cat orientated 'knows' that you could never hope to 'tame' a feral cat to the extent you describe here. A true feral cat will take at least 3 generations to tame. That is, it's Grandchildren may become fully domestic ! I think you may have "trapped" (???) an abandoned kitten. > Bonnie the feral has slowly become a normal cat. She was trapped last May > and in this time she's been interesting to watch "come around". She [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > wild and even though she was only 4-5 months old when she was trapped, I've > never known a cat who took so long to become "tame". a "true feral cat" will be a year or more, and they still can be brought into home living, but they will never be a cuddly cat. any young kitten - preferably before 6 to 8 weeks, but truly up to six months - can be taken out of the feral environment and be hand tamed. it just takes a lot of work in trust building. > This tale is one of the strangest I've ever read here on this strangest of > strange NG's, because almost everyone I know who is cat orientated 'knows' [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > I am a very happy person. It's just that I have no patients for stupidity. > > - IBen Getiner Connie wrote: >a "true feral cat" will be a year or more, This is incorrect. Atrue feral cat is one that has never been socialized to humans and lives in the streets/wild. A true feral can be 5 weeks, 5 months or 5 years old. >and they still can be brought into home >living, but they will never be a cuddly cat. This is absolutely untrue, and if you promote this kind of thinking you will be responsible for depriving feral cats of homes with people that would otherwise consider taking them in if they knew there is a good chance they can be socialized. >any young kitten - preferably before 6 to >8 weeks, but truly up to six months - can >be taken out of the feral environment and >be hand tamed. it just takes a lot of work >in trust building. Adults can be tamed, too. Murphy, a 5 year old *true* feral that scared the sh.t out of everyone including the vet techs at the clinic: Before: http://pic10.picturetrail.com/VOL320/476350/610342/7767854.jpg After: http://pic10.picturetrail.com/VOL320/476350/610342/10895116.jpg It takes a lot of time with adults and no, not all of them will become "cuddly", but that doesn't mean one shouldn't take a feral in and give it a home where it can live out its life safe and well-cared for. That is rewarding in and of itself and definitely a worthwhile endeavor. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Connie wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > would otherwise consider taking them in if they knew there is a good > chance they can be socialized. How do you ascertain there is a good chance of 'socialising' a feral at the time of capture? What do you do with the 'mistakes' of this process? > >any young kitten - preferably before 6 to > >8 weeks, but truly up to six months - can [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > - W.H. Murray > How do you ascertain there is a good chance of 'socialising' a feral at the > time of capture? > > What do you do with the 'mistakes' of this process? How do you determine if the process is a "mistake"? If you took a cat off the streets ( I don't mean out of the wild, I mean off the streets), gave it medical attention, altered it, provided it a constant source of food, shelter...and love if it wanted it..than I say it's a success regardless of whether the cat eventually lets you hold it. I rescued a stray off the street. I say stray because all it took was a steady source of food for 2 weeks before she was wrapping herself around my ankles when I walked outside. Probably dumped. I understand there is a difference between a domestic cat that was left to fend for itself for some time and a cat that came from a long line of feral cats...but 90% of the cats on the street in a suburban area are going to be the later not the former. Regarding that 90%....there are no failures or "mistakes". AG >How do you ascertain there is a good >chance of 'socialising' a feral at the time >of capture? There is a specific method for socializing a feral cat, and you use that method and take however long it takes to do so. >What do you do with the 'mistakes' of >this process? Mistakes? There are no "mistakes." If a cat does not completely socialize you keep it anyway and just make sure it has another cat to keep it company. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray | >What do you do with the 'mistakes' of | >this process? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] | | Megan Look, my very first and beloved cat came from a litter in a household. We got her as a kitten. She lived for over twenty years, but never ever liked to be held and only rarely went on my mother's lap (I guess if so, then just to say thankyou for the food). Now I have a true stray, trapped as an about two year old, most likely from a farm but badly neglected. She shows much affection but does not want to be held. She's very much like my first cat. Third cat is a real purrbox, a kitten of a stray or feral who had her litter in some lady's garden. We got him as a six months old. He's very affectionate, but he wants OUT! They are all so different, even within their race. Some like affection and some just don't. That's maybe also what makes cats attractive. You have to work on the relationship. With real ferals I guess it very much depends on the age when you catch them. I don't think a 10 year old cat can be domesticated, that's if it gets that old at all. Carola | How do you ascertain there is a good chance of 'socialising' a feral | at the time of capture? There's nothing to ascertain: it can be done. I think you're really asking about the chances of the cat matching preconceptions such as human expectations. Will the cat turn out the way *you* want? Quite possibly not. Some cats are cuddlier than others. Being feral to begin with is of no relevance. > a "true feral cat" will be a year or more, and they still can be brought > into home living, but they will never be a cuddly cat. any young kitten - > preferably before 6 to 8 weeks, but truly up to six months - can be taken > out of the feral environment and be hand tamed. it just takes a lot of work > in trust building. A domestic cat released to the wild does not become a true feral, EVER. It's offspring however will, that is, it takes 1 generation for a cat to become feral. A true feral cat will not become domesticated, EVER. The offspring of its offspring however will, that is, it takes 3 generations for a feral cat to become domestic. Please do not trap feral cats to attempt to domesticate them. The only acceptable way to handle a feral population is trap, neuter, release. > This tale is one of the strangest I've ever read here on this strangest of > strange NG's, because almost everyone I know who is cat orientated 'knows' > that you could never hope to 'tame' a feral cat to the extent you describe > here. feral not Feral > This tale is one of the strangest I've ever read here on this > strangest of strange NG's, I wasn't going for strange, but wtf. > I think you may have "trapped" (???) an abandoned kitten. No. She clearly didn't know humans other than to stay away from them. The area I live in has a very large stray/feral cat population. Maybe we are mixing up the term "feral"? Feral is wild, born to a wild or stray "domestic" (felis catus) mom cat. Abandoned? By whom, her mother? This was a feral cat in all sense of the word. At the age of ~4-5 months (possibly more; she is still small almost a year later), her feral nature was set. Are you saying that even a wild cat with a mother who could have possibly been owned at one time, or if she (mother) was born in the wild but /her/ mother had human contact at one time, is going to have the domestic tendencies of her relatives? I have to doubt that because unlike dogs, I don't believe cats are born with that "trait" without learning it. SignatureCheryl "I am a very happy person. It's just that I have no patients for stupidity." - IBen Getiner >almost everyone I know who is cat >orientated 'knows' that you could never >hope to 'tame' a feral cat to the extent you >describe here. Apparently they have never dealt with ferals. I have a lot of experience taming ferals and what Cheryl did is possible with feral cats as a rule. It just takes time, patience and perserverance. >A true feral cat will take at least 3 >generations to tame. This statement makes no sense. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > >almost everyone I know who is cat > >orientated 'knows' that you could never [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > taming ferals and what Cheryl did is possible with feral cats as a rule. > It just takes time, patience and perserverance. A domestic cat released to the wild does not become a true feral, EVER. It's offspring however will, that is, it takes 1 generation for a cat to become feral. A true feral cat will not become domesticated, EVER. The offspring of its offspring however will, that is, it takes 3 generations for a feral cat to become domestic. Please do not trap feral cats to attempt to domesticate them. The only acceptable way to handle a feral population is trap, neuter, release. > >A true feral cat will take at least 3 > >generations to tame. > > This statement makes no sense. > > Megan The domestic cat is one generation from feral, centuries of domestication have done nothing to alter the cats wild instincts. A domestic cat released to the wild will not become a true feral, it will retain at least a little of its domestic behaviour. The next generation however, becomes a true feral, it will have a truly wild instinct. A feral cat taken from the wild will NEVER become fully domesticated, neither will its offspring. The mother will pass on at least a little of its feral nature. The third generation however, will become fully domestic, having none of the behaviour patterns of a feral cat. Please do not trap feral cats to attempt to domesticate them. The only acceptable way to handle a feral population is trap, neuter, release. > "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do > nothing." [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > - W.H. Murray >It's offspring however will, that is, it takes 1 generation for a cat to >become feral. > >A true feral cat will not become domesticated, EVER. > >The offspring of its offspring however will, that is, it takes 3 generations Sorry, but that just sounds like a myth. If you have any sources to hold that theory up as fact, please cite them. I've seen too many people "domesticate" ferals. They're not lap cats, but are still "domesticated" in every sense of the word. Sherry <snip> > I've seen too many people "domesticate" ferals. Why "too many" ? >They're not lap cats, but are > still "domesticated" in every sense of the word. heck I prefer non-lap cats, generally. pat ><snip> >> I've seen too many people "domesticate" ferals. > >Why "too many" ? You snipped my post. The complete thought indicates "I've seen soo many people domesticate ferals *to believe* Bandit's "3-generations to domestic" theory. Sherry > A domestic cat released to the wild does > not become a true feral, EVER. I never said it would. > It's offspring however will, that is, it > takes 1 generation for a cat to become > feral. > A true feral cat will not become > domesticated, EVER. This is not true. I have already provided proof it can be done, as has Cheryl. > The offspring of its offspring however > will, that is, it takes 3 generations > for a feral cat to become domestic. This is not true and I have serious doubts that you can provide a cite that it is. > Please do not trap feral cats to attempt > to domesticate them. The only acceptable > way to handle a feral population is > trap, neuter, release. Wen you have a large population of feral cats TNR is the way to go, but if there is just one or two and one wants to trap them and try to socializef them I'm all for it. > The domestic cat is one generation from > feral, centuries of domestication have [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > on at least a little of its feral > nature. You clearly don't know what you're talking about. I happen to have 3 generations of feral cats in my home as we speak, and all were *true* ferals when I trapped them (the kitten -3rd generation- sent me to the hospital to be treated for serious bite wounds.) Two have become completely socialized and the third, while still feral (but making progress), lives happily in my home and enjoys the company of the other cats. I trapped several of her kittens from different litters (10 wks - 6 months old) before I finally captured her and every single one of them has become socialized. >The third generation however, > will become fully domestic, having none > of the behaviour patterns of a feral > cat. This still makes no sense. Provide a cite that backs up/explains this weird theory of yours. A cat born in the wild and unsocialized to humans is feral, regardless of what generation it is. > Please do not trap feral cats to attempt > to domesticate them. The only acceptable > way to handle a feral population is > trap, neuter, release. If people are willing to make the committment necessary, they should definitely trap a feral and try to socialize it. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray zuzu22@webtv.net dumped this in news:14692-4051C564-89@storefull- 3198.bay.webtv.net on 12 Mar 2004: >> Please do not trap feral cats to attempt >> to domesticate them. The only acceptable >> way to handle a feral population is >> trap, neuter, release. My house is quite a ways from the true feral colony that lives around here. Some of them wander off away from the group and my Bonnie was one of those. My house is on a busy road, and she was so small when I trapped her (I set the trap only to neuter, provide shots, deworming, deflea, etc, and intended to release... ADULTS..). If I released her it would have been a death sentence. > Wen you have a large population of feral cats TNR is the way to go, but > if there is just one or two and one wants to trap them and try to > socializef them I'm all for it. :) I trust your instincts. You were right on with Bonnie, Jake and Smokey. (Jake and Smokey were obviously not true ferals, but probably abandoned; unneutered, but too friendly to be feral). SignatureCheryl I am a very happy person. It's just that I have no patients for stupidity. - IBen Getiner | A domestic cat released to the wild does not become a true feral, EVER. True. | It's offspring however will, that is, it takes 1 generation for a cat to | become feral. Correct. | A true feral cat will not become domesticated, EVER. Nonsense. | The offspring of its offspring however will, that is, it takes 3 | generations for a feral cat to become domestic. If that were true, then rescuers are wasting their time taking feral kittens off the streets, neutering them, (gasp) socialising them, and then finding homes for them. After all, what they're doing is supposed to be impossible. | Please do not trap feral cats to attempt to domesticate them. The only | acceptable way to handle a feral population is trap, neuter, release. This is true for populations, or colonies as they're usually called. An individual cat as the subject of a one-shot one-time rescue for ones own home is a different matter. There's nothing wrong with this, as long as one is prepared for the domestication to be a possibly long process. | A feral cat taken from the wild will NEVER become fully domesticated, | neither will its offspring. The mother will pass on at least a little | of its feral nature. The third generation however, will become fully | domestic, having none of the behaviour patterns of a feral cat. Except that, with cats taken off the streets, there will be *NO* third generation. So your cockamamie theory is moot. > Bonnie the feral has slowly become a normal cat. She was trapped last > May and in this time she's been interesting to watch "come around". [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > in the wild and even though she was only 4-5 months old when she was > trapped, I've never known a cat who took so long to become "tame". My Bonnie adopted us 1 1/2 years ago. She was obviously "dumped" as she was almost two and fixed. It took her this long to want to cuddle with me. My wife she took to right away. I think she may have been abused by a male before. Anyway, she loves to sleep in my lap now and knows I'll protect her from Squeak, but he is another story. SignatureStocksRus? > My Bonnie adopted us 1 1/2 years ago. She was obviously "dumped" as > she was almost two and fixed. It took her this long to want to cuddle [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > from > Squeak, but he is another story. Awww :) Another Bonnie. That's 3 on these groups that I know of now. Glad that she found you. :) SignatureCheryl "I am a very happy person. It's just that I have no patients for stupidity." - IBen Getiner Hi there. I'm glad your little one is finally settling down. Thought, though, that I'd put in 2cents about something my vet said about my Rexie (18 mos, male Siamese, had since he was 3 1/2 to 4 weeks old) re your comment about her 'setting her paw on your lap'. My siamese mix does this all the time, and also when you're playing kind of rough with him. At the end of every game or strength match he does that. He'll even chase my hubby around and end up putting his paw on one of Jim's feet. Sometimes both paws. My vet says that at least in Rexie's case, this is an alpha (if there is such a thing as 'alpha' in cats). That he thinks he won the game (with Jim), and in my case, being is mom, that even though I"m mommy, he's THE GUY! I'd imagine, since your little girl is feral, that what she's saying is that, 'you might feed me and keep me warm, but you're really my slave!' To reply by mail, remove 'nicks'. Shirley B., Webmaster: http://jumi-shirley-butler.com http://www.geocities.com/mhc_reporter http://www.vinotecawinebar.com "Making a way out of no way is sometimes the only way" Dr. Johnnetta B. Cole ~Bonnie the feral has slowly become a normal cat. She was trapped last ~May and letting me pet her, to her setting her paw on my lap as if she wants to sit on me. > He'll even chase my hubby around and end up putting his paw > on one of Jim's feet. Sometimes both paws. Funny. Bonnie has always loved my feet, too. I always thought because she always liked to stay low that my feet were what she related to first. Even now she'll lay at my feet and hug them. Or lay on them. SignatureCheryl I am a very happy person. It's just that I have no patients for stupidity. - IBen Getiner >My vet says that at least in Rexie's case, >this is an alpha (if there is such a thing as >'alpha' in cats). "Alpha" exists in the dog world, not the cat world. I am continuously amazed at how little most vets know about cat behavior, yet they continue to misinform people. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray Jeez louise, I didn't mean for people to jump on my vet. She is QUITE schooled in animal behaviors, as it happens. She didn't mean that Rexie WAS alpha. Just that male siamese cats exhibit ALPHA-LIKE traits, as she said, LIKE ALPHA DOGS, or even HUMAN MALES. They're right, ALWAYS, it's never their fault, ALWAYS yours. If I win with Rexie, his look says, "I LET you win!" Just like playing with a male dog, or regular human guys!!! Shirl ~"Alpha" exists in the dog world, not the cat world. I am continuously ~amazed at how little most vets know about cat behavior, yet they ~continue to misinform people. ~ ~Megan ~ To reply by mail, remove 'nicks'. Shirley B., #6 ASMS Lists Webmaster: http://jumi-shirley-butler.com http://www.geocities.com/mhc_reporter "Making a way out of no way is sometimes the only way" Dr. Johnnetta B. Cole <snip> > "Alpha" exists in the dog world, not the cat world. I am continuously > amazed at how little most vets know about cat behavior, yet they > continue to misinform people. umm, then what's the dominant male of a bunch of lions called ? pat > Bonnie the feral has slowly become a normal cat. > > > I've had many cats over the years but she is the first that was born in the > wild and even though she was only 4-5 months old when she was trapped, I've > never known a cat who took so long to become "tame". Cheryl, this sounds wonderful to me. I think you have made remarkable progress in very little time. My first cat was feral (yes, my first cat many, many years ago ... before I knew that it was either stupid or intrepid to even consider adopting a feral cat as my "very first"). He was approximately 8 months old when we trapped him. Despite what I read in a couple of other messages, he became a wonderful, loving cat -- but it took about 2 years before I felt that we were really bonded and he began to lose his "wildness." He lived to be almost 20 years old, and over the years became a completely loving companion. It is undoubtedly true that *some* feral cats are never fully companion cats, but I can personally attest to the fact that some *are.* Of course, I was single and all of my energies at that time either went into my coursework in graduate school or into communicating with my cat -- so he had my total, undivided attention a great deal of the time. Something like that can make the difference, I think. MaryL > Cheryl, this sounds wonderful to me. I think you have made remarkable > progress in very little time. Thanks Mary. It hasn't seemed like very little time, but when she decided to start trusting me, it was little things for a long time, but lately she takes HUGE leaps of faith. So much so at times that she amazes me. Her instinct still is to run if I move too fast but sometimes she'll wait for a minute, eying me suspiciously, then settling down again. Most people who come to my house will never see her, but *that* isn't unusual for alot of cats. She *did* come out when one friend was here but he sat there ignoring her, knowing she was watching him. She almost let him pet her but not quite. He has been the only guest that she's ever shown herself to. Also, the way she moves is different from any other cat I've had. She stands in such a way that she can always escape no matter what. Back feet sort of turned away from her body, I suppose so she can be ready to run in either direction quickly. She also has a tendency to play near the cat trees and can always escape Shamrock when he charges her in play; there is always a post between her and him when she wants there to be. I doubt I'll ever be able to walk up to her and pick her up but that's ok. I'll have to learn other ways to trick her into the carrier when the next vet visit comes up. She's smart as a whip. My first cat was feral (yes, my first > cat many, many years ago ... before I knew that it was either stupid > or intrepid to even consider adopting a feral cat as my "very first"). [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > bonded and he began to lose his "wildness." He lived to be almost 20 > years old, and over the years became a completely loving companion. I bet that was rewarding, and you had a strong bond from that slow- growing trust. :) SignatureCheryl I am a very happy person. It's just that I have no patients for stupidity. - IBen Getiner Cheryl, Congrats in getting her to trust you. I have what the vet calls a semi-feral - she's definitely not trusting of humans. Not quite six months, she was humanely trapped and brought into shelter I foster for. Not really sure of her background, I think there was some human contact, but not a stable home, so I really don't think she's a true feral. She would allow me to pet her, and I could hold her, albiet with a lot of growling. After six days she came right up to me and decided to rub noses and cheeks. I fell head over heels. She's still shy - will run under the bed a lot yet, but other times comes out for attention (particularly if food is involved). Starting to play with my other cats now, and is becoming semi-adventurous and leaving my room (although this is her safety net). I just think its so rewarding when they trust you and you can watch them come around. Congrats! > > Cheryl, this sounds wonderful to me. I think you have made remarkable > > progress in very little time. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > I bet that was rewarding, and you had a strong bond from that slow- > growing trust. :) > She would allow me to pet her, and I could hold her, albiet with a lot > of growling. After six days she came right up to me and decided to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > leaving my room (although this is her safety net). I just think its > so rewarding when they trust you and you can watch them come around. Give her time! :) It's good that she has other cats to be with. Isn't it so neat to see the little changes that occur in their behavior and purrsonality when they start to feel at home? :) SignatureCheryl I am a very happy person. It's just that I have no patients for stupidity. - IBen Getiner > Give her time! :) It's good that she has other cats to be with. Isn't it > so neat to see the little changes that occur in their behavior and > purrsonality when they start to feel at home? :) We had a "breakthrough" last nite - she was actually curling up against my leg and went to sleep - first time she ever did this. I think every time I take her to the vet or shelter she becomes nicer towards me - like "please, I'll be good, don't take me back". <smile> This morning she was laying behind my back playing with my hair. I think she can also sense I'm upset - my oldest is at the vets, has been since Wednesday. Not eating. Diagnosed with kidney failure/infection. Vet said if no improvement by today then it's very likely he won't get better. He's been through a lot in the past few years. Ate a plastic safety seal which resulted in two exploratories, feeding tube and URI on top of it all. Has since had chronic URI, treating symptomaticaly. I just took him in because his eyes were running and nose was clogged and stopped eating (I thought becauseof URI, this cat loves food). I never expected this. So I am now waiting until 9:30 this morning to see if he's improved. If not I have to do the humane thing, as much as it breaks my heart. I lost one in July, now here we go again. The downfall of pet ownership. Hopefully this is it for a while, the next oldest is eight. And a houseful of youngsters. So sad. But I am thankful for the years we've had, he is truly a unique cat. Just an update on "Z" and his diagnosis. Now vet is thinking he has pancreatitis, which can be difficult to diagnose. Only way to know for sure is maybe exploratory - he's been through enough invasive procedures and it's not fair to put him through anymore. Vet said give him another day. I went to visit again today, he does look a little better and as soon as he saw me he meowed a few times until I held him, then he was content and purred. So we play the waiting game again. My stomach has been in knots the entire day. I'm going nuts, my emotions have been on a roller coaster. I pray I am doing the right thing and not prolonging anything bad. Please say a prayer for my old guy. Thanks. > > Give her time! :) It's good that she has other cats to be with. Isn't it > > so neat to see the little changes that occur in their behavior and > > purrsonality when they start to feel at home? :) > > > > -- > > Cheryl > > We had a "breakthrough" last nite - she was actually curling up against my > leg and went to sleep - first time she ever did this. I think every time I > take her to the vet or shelter she becomes nicer towards me - like "please, > I'll be good, don't take me back". <smile> This morning she was laying > behind my back playing with my hair. > > I think she can also sense I'm upset - my oldest is at the vets, has been > since Wednesday. Not eating. Diagnosed with kidney failure/infection. Vet > said if no improvement by today then it's very likely he won't get better. > He's been through a lot in the past few years. Ate a plastic safety seal > which resulted in two exploratories, feeding tube and URI on top of it all. > Has since had chronic URI, treating symptomaticaly. I just took him in > because his eyes were running and nose was clogged and stopped eating (I > thought becauseof URI, this cat loves food). I never expected this. So I > am now waiting until 9:30 this morning to see if he's improved. If not I > have to do the humane thing, as much as it breaks my heart. I lost one in > July, now here we go again. The downfall of pet ownership. Hopefully this > is it for a while, the next oldest is eight. And a houseful of youngsters. > So sad. But I am thankful for the years we've had, he is truly a unique > cat. <Story about possible pancreatitis diagnosis snipped> Is your cat on IV fluids? If not it should be, especially if pancreatitis is suspected. This condition is treatable and I would hesitate to consider it a reason to put the cat to sleep. You can also opt for an ultrasound rather than exploratory surgery as a tool to see what's going on. My cat Rachel was hospitalized for a week with pancreatitis and aggressive IV fluid therapy and meds brought her through it. I also think it might be worthwhile to get a second opinion. If you have a university veterinary school near you that would be a good option, or ask of a referral to an internal medicine specialist. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray zuzu22@webtv.net dumped this in news:10637-405399B0-105@storefull- 3198.bay.webtv.net on 13 Mar 2004: > My cat Rachel was hospitalized for a week with > pancreatitis and aggressive IV fluid therapy and meds brought her > through it. I can picture the treatment: Megan: Rachel Rachel: mrow Megan: mrow Rachel: mrow Megan: mrow Rachel: mrow Me: Say it two times! Megan: mrow mrow Rachel: mrow.... mrow Me: (laughing) Glad she got through it. She's such a sweetie. SignatureCheryl I am a very happy person. It's just that I have no patients for stupidity. - IBen Getiner >I can picture the treatment: >Megan: Rachel [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Rachel: mrow.... mrow >Me: (laughing) Dammit, you owe me a keyboard. ;-) Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Just an update on "Z" and his diagnosis. Now vet is thinking he has > pancreatitis, which can be difficult to diagnose. Only way to know [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > coaster. I pray I am doing the right thing and not prolonging > anything bad. Please say a prayer for my old guy. Thanks. JoJo, I read your other post about your breakthrough with the lil wild girl, and that really sounds good. I'm sorry for Z, though. One of my cats has IBD so I know what you're going through. I've thought I would lose him many times. At this point I am not afraid when goes to the bridge because he won't be sick anymore; I'm more afraid of keeping him here when he'd rather go, and I'll miss the signs. He's also been through alot - feeding tube, transfusion (and is now FeLV+ from it), horrible diarrhea, vomiting, etc. His meds control the vomiting and he eats well now, but nothing can touch the diarrhea. So far he doesn't seem to be suffering and even plays more than he used to; I suspect he was sick for a long time before I was aware of it when he stopped eating and was diagnosed. Purrs and prayers are being sent to Z. SignatureCheryl I am a very happy person. It's just that I have no patients for stupidity. - IBen Getiner > > Cheryl, this sounds wonderful to me. I think you have made remarkable > > progress in very little time. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I bet that was rewarding, and you had a strong bond from that slow- > growing trust. :) Absolutely! He eventually became a wonderful, loving companion. I was devastated when I eventually had to make the decision that it was time for him to go to the RB, but we estimated that he was only a couple of months short of age 20 at the time -- so he had a long, full life. He had long fur, and when we first trapped him he was so full of mats that I could see his skin pulled from one mat to another. Within a short time, I also learned that he had UTI, and it was so advanced that the vet did not expect him to live. Obviously, we worked our way through that potential tragedy. Once he was cleaned up, had some months of good nutrition and medical care, etc., he turned out to be a beautiful, really majestic cat -- truly the king of the household. You can see a picture of him if you scroll down to the bottom of my photo album, then come up approximately 10 pictures. His picture is in the hutch below where Duffy is lying. MaryL http://tinyurl.com/8y56 > You can see a picture of him if you scroll down to > the bottom of my photo album, then come up approximately 10 pictures. > His picture is in the hutch below where Duffy is lying I could sort of see him. :) I liked the opportunity to see all of your pics. Where did you get that rose-colored cat tree with the condo in the base? I love that! The last cat tree I got was from Petsmart and Shamrock loves it, but its a bit wobbly and Bonnie doesn't like it. Shamrock probably wouldn't care if it fell over. lol He's adventurous. But Bonnie prefers the really sturdy tree I have and I'd like to add another one, and the one with the condo in the base looks sturdy. Shadow doesn't like any cat tree because he would have to compete for a spot, so he prefers the back of the couch. Poor guy. I feel so bad for him these days. He just won't stand up for himself anymore. :( I separate him from Bonnie and Shamrock during the day when I'm at work now. But they get a whole floor of the house so it isn't like being stuck in a room (not that they'd care, they probably sleep all day.) SignatureCheryl I am a very happy person. It's just that I have no patients for stupidity. - IBen Getiner > > You can see a picture of him if you scroll down to > > the bottom of my photo album, then come up approximately 10 pictures. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > But Bonnie prefers the really sturdy tree I have and I'd like to add > another one, and the one with the condo in the base looks sturdy. Yes, this is a wonderful cat tree. It is exceptionally sturdy and well-made. It comes fully assembled, and this one weighs 85 pounds - so I had my location for it all ready, and the man who delivered it took it to the room where I wanted it placed permanently. I ordered the tree from www.createacatcondo.com ("Molly and Friends"). If you go to their web site, you will see that you can get all sorts of configurations and color combinations. These trees are an excellent value. They come fully assembled and the price includes shipping (which can add a significant amount at most web sites). Mine is the 4-tier tree with 3 beds and an upright tunnel. I ordered it with 2 carpeted poles and 1 sisal pole. After I received it, I realized that I needed a 4th pole because Duffy needed to be able to "see" where the post was by touching it, and he could not reach under the bed to touch the pole it was mounted on. A handyman friend of mine added the 4th post that extends a couple of inches above the top bed. Createacatcondo could have done the same thing for me, but I didn't realize that I would have that need until after the cat tree arrived. Some time later, I received a message from the owner of Love That Cat Store. They are going to handle the exact configuration of Molly and Friends' cat tree that I ordered. Shipping is not included in their price. With shipping added, the price is a little less - but not much, and you would not be able to customize the configuration you want. Please look at their web site because the reason she contacted me was to ask if they could use a few of Duffy and Holly's pictures in their advertising. Of course, I happily said yes. They are located at http://www.lovethatcat.com. If you go there, click on the big black cat tunnel at the bottom of the page. There you will see one of my photos of Duffy and Holly on their cat tree. Click on that to open to a larger version, then click again and you will see three more photos. (I guess you can see I'm proud of my furry twosome - I never stop talking about them.) MaryL (take out the litter to reply) Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'< http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly) http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in") > Please look at their web site > because the reason she contacted me was to ask if they could use a few [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > cat tree. Click on that to open to a larger version, then click again > and you will see three more photos. Awesome! I recognised them as soon as the page loaded. :) Whoa, I'd be proud too. That tree is a bit less than I paid for my big sturdy one. It probably weighs about the same 85 lbs if not more. My dad is a retired physicist and likes making things and I kidded with him telling him the cat tree (he isn't a cat lover[1]) is built based on physics and with the low center of gravity, and placement of the posts, it will never fall over. Oh, and that he could build me one just like it because he understands that stuff. :) (I guess you can see I'm proud of > my furry twosome - I never stop talking about them.) I don't mind! I love reading about them. :) I especially like seeing pictures of Holly so friendly with Duffy because I remember last year how worried you were because she is such the princess. [1] Even though my dad isn't a cat fan, he obviously talks about my cats with a woman he drives to and from dr appts (his volunteer work) because she bought me a book. I've never met her but I sure have a Thank You letter to write to her. Cat Stories by James Herriot. SignatureCheryl I am a very happy person. It's just that I have no patients for stupidity. - IBen Getiner > (I guess you can see I'm proud of > > my furry twosome - I never stop talking about them.) > > > I don't mind! I love reading about them. :) I especially like seeing > pictures of Holly so friendly with Duffy because I remember last year how > worried you were because she is such the princess. Heh! That's perfect. Holly even had a cat bowl that my sister gave her. The name on the bowl is "Her Royal Highness." MaryL | Bonnie the feral has slowly become a normal cat. Congratulations! You are now a member of the Eartip Club. :-) | After this long time, she now allows me to pick her up. Not willingly, | but she settles when she realizes I'm not going to hurt her. This is great. After nearly a year and a half, I still can't pick Lucas up for any length of time. | I've had many cats over the years but she is the first that was born | in the wild and even though she was only 4-5 months old when she was | trapped, I've never known a cat who took so long to become "tame". It varies with the cat. The conventional wisdom is that ferals need to be under 3 months to be easily socializable. Yet, my "true" ferals turned out be relatively "easy" cases (when trapped, Phoenix at least 14 weeks old, and Marie at least 20.) My adult "hard strays", Lucas and Scruffy, took longer. Signaturehttp://www.nyct.net/~aray/cats/ http://www.picturetrail.com/aray/ >| Bonnie the feral has slowly become a normal cat. > > Congratulations! You are now a member of the Eartip Club. :-) And she wears it with such grace. :) >| After this long time, she now allows me to pick her up. Not >| willingly, but she settles when she realizes I'm not going to hurt >| her. > > This is great. After nearly a year and a half, I still can't pick > Lucas up for any length of time. But he was older, and at least you can pick him up at all! That's an accomplishment! >I've never known a cat who took so long to become "tame". > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 14 weeks old, and Marie at least 20.) My adult "hard strays", Lucas > and Scruffy, took longer. I'm glad you posted because I'd lost your kitty pages when I set up this new puter. Now yer bookmarked again. SignatureCheryl I am a very happy person. It's just that I have no patients for stupidity. - IBen Getiner |
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