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Declawing ?

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Mad Dog - 29 Sep 2006 21:51 GMT
I am from the UK and I have noticed in several threads about declawing, is
this common in America ?  I have read of it in books and it is probably done
in my country but I have never seen a cat that has been declawed.
Personally myself, and I mean this not as a slight on anyone, but it is not
something I could have done to my cats.  My way of thinking is that they
need their claws in their everyday life.

I know we have our cats castrated and spayed but that is also a good thing
for the cats and is being responsible in the long run.

Signature

"A horse a horse my kingdom for a horse, I haven't had a winner in six
months".

MD

Magic Mood Jeep© - 29 Sep 2006 22:13 GMT
> I am from the UK and I have noticed in several threads about
> declawing, is this common in America ?  I have read of it in books
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> I know we have our cats castrated and spayed but that is also a good
> thing for the cats and is being responsible in the long run.

Well, since you're in the UK, you *should* know that it has been deemed
illegal by your government, so if you know anyone who has a cat that has
been declawed, it was done illegally, before the law was passed or the
surgery was done elsewhere (like in the US where is *not* illegal).
Mad Dog - 30 Sep 2006 00:04 GMT
|| In news:rIfTg.35659$TF5.22205@newsfe1-win.ntli.net,
|| Mad Dog  purred:
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
|| was passed or the surgery was done elsewhere (like in the US where
|| is *not* illegal).

Our Government have deemed all manner of things illegal but lets not get
into that, why "should" I know it has been declared illegal by our
Government.  I said it is probably done in my country but can I ask how long
has it been illegal in UK.  I do not agree with it but there would be
nothing I could do about it if I did know anybody that had it done to their
cat.

MD
MaryL - 29 Sep 2006 22:21 GMT
>I am from the UK and I have noticed in several threads about declawing, is
>this common in America ?  I have read of it in books and it is probably
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> I know we have our cats castrated and spayed but that is also a good thing
> for the cats and is being responsible in the long run.

This is a very sore subject (no pun intended) on cats newsgroups.  Many of
us feel that declawing is a cruel, inhumane procedure.  Ironically, it isn't
even needed because most people who opt for declawing do it to "save" their
furniture, yet it is not difficult to train a cat to use scratching post.  I
don't have any experience with Soft Paws, but some people have also used
that with good results.  Not only is this a cruel procedure, but it is often
counterproductive.  Many cats (about 30%) that have been declawed then
exhibit other "inappropriate" behavior such as biting and urinating outside
the litter box.  Those poor little cats are then frequently abandoned or
dumped at shelters.  Of those that are kept -- and they are many -- there is
also a fairly high percentage that develop arthritis at an early age.

I am pleased that the UK and some other countries have made declawing
illegal.  I would like to see the US follow suit.  There are a few cities
that have outlawed declawing, so we may have hope...

In my opinion, the only time declawing should be legal is when there is a
medical necessity -- and that is *extremely* rare.

MaryL

Photos of Duffy and Holly:      >'o'<
Duffy:  http://tinyurl.com/cslwf
Holly:  http://tinyurl.com/9t68o
Duffy and Holly together:  http://tinyurl.com/8b47e
LMadigan@hhnt.nhs.uk - 29 Sep 2006 22:53 GMT
> In my opinion, the only time declawing should be legal is when there is a
> medical necessity -- and that is *extremely* rare.

It is legal in the UK but only for specific medical reasons I gather
the commonest reason is a chronic infection or tumour affecting a digit
and even then it is only legal if only the affected claw is removed
none others

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
(PeteCresswell) - 29 Sep 2006 23:56 GMT
Per MaryL:
> yet it is not difficult to train a cat to use scratching post.

Anybody have some suggestions on how to do this?   We're striking out so far...
Signature

PeteCresswell

MaryL - 30 Sep 2006 00:50 GMT
> Per MaryL:
>> yet it is not difficult to train a cat to use scratching post.
>
> Anybody have some suggestions on how to do this?   We're striking out so
> far...

How old are your cats?  The earlier you start, the better.

So far, all of the cats that have "owned" me have quickly learned to use
scratching posts.  First, it is essential to have several scratching posts
scattered around your house or apartment.  You cannot expect a cat to go
"looking" for a scratching post -- it needs to be convenient.  I have one in
every room of the house except the kitchen and bathrooms, and they vary from
very expensive to very inexpensive.  Second, different cats like different
types of scratching surfaces, so you may need to experiment.  Therefore,
don't buy a "supply" of posts all at one time.  Some cats like sisal (that
has been the preference for all of mine), some like carpeting, and some
prefer corrugated cardboard.  Some people are even successful by bringing in
stumps or large pieces of wood from outdoors.  Also, some cats prefer
upright scratching posts whereas others like them either horizontal to the
floor or at an incline.  There is an Alpine Incline made of corrugated
cardboard that many people use.  One of Duffy's favorites is one of those
circles (I have forgotten the name) that has a track around the outside with
a ball in it and a circle of corrugated cardboard in the center.  He uses it
as a toy, as a scratcher, and often even for lounging!  I also have two cat
trees that include a pole covered with sisal for scratching.  Whatever you
use, it is important for the post to be (1) tall or long enough so the cat
can stretch out to his or her full length -- except for something like the
circle I just described -- and (2) sturdy enough so that it cannot topple
and scare the cat -- once that happens, your cat may refuse to use it again.
If you look at some of the pictures in my albums, you can see some of the
ones I use.  The links are under my signature.

Now, how to get a cat to *use* the scratching post?  You want to *attract*
the cat to the post, not try to "scare" it into using a post by yelling or
using a water gun.  In my case, I was *very* attentive for a few days, and
that's all it took.  I would watch my cat, and at the first sign of the cat
scratching the carpet or furniture I would say "no" (firmly but not yelling)
and then would do something to attract the cat to a scratching post.  In
some cases, I would draw a toy (fastened to a string) up and down the edge
of the post until my cat grabbed at it in play.  As soon as my cat would
"grab" or scratch at the post -- which would invariably happen -- I would
*praise* excessively.  Other times, I would simply tap on the post or
scratch at it with my fingernails and call my cat over.  Again, it was like
play to them but they learned to use the post.  Once they began to use the
post regularly, I no longer needed to pay much attention.  Occasionally,
even now one will start to pick at a chair, and I will then go to the post
and call.  But they have not done enough of that to cause damage -- they use
the scratching posts almost exclusively.  Sometimes they will even run to a
post, scratch vigorously, and then look over at me as if to say, "See what a
good boy/girl I am"!  Even Duffy learned quickly and was using the
scratching posts within two or three days.  He is blind and obviously did
not know what a scratching post is when I first adopted him, so I expected
that it would take a lot of time and patience.  In actual fact, it did not.
He took to scratching posts "like a duck to water."  Moreover, he was
estimated to be between and 3 and 5 years old, and he learned as quickly as
a youngster.

Good luck with yours!

MaryL

Photos of Duffy and Holly:      >'o'<
Duffy:  http://tinyurl.com/cslwf
Holly:  http://tinyurl.com/9t68o
Duffy and Holly together:  http://tinyurl.com/8b47e
Ivor Jones - 30 Sep 2006 02:04 GMT
> > Per MaryL:
> > > yet it is not difficult to train a cat to use
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> How old are your cats?  The earlier you start, the better.

Every cat that I've known over the past 30-odd years (and there have been
many..!) have just "known" how to use a scratching post without ever
having had to be taught.

Ivor
MaryL - 30 Sep 2006 11:34 GMT
>> > Per MaryL:
>> > > yet it is not difficult to train a cat to use
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Ivor

It's not really a matter of teaching a cat to use a scratching post...it's
more a matter of teaching a cat to use a scratching post *exclusively.*
That is, cats can readily see how to use scratching post, but if not
"trained" will also scratch carpets and furniture.  I did not find it
difficult to get them to use scratching posts -- positive reinforcement (not
punishment) is the clue, and that's why I described what I did to attract
them to a scratching post.

One further point:  Some people rub catnip into scratching posts as an
attractant.  That often works, but I had one cat that would simply rub the
side of his face all over the post (not his claws) if I did that!

MaryL
Mike - 30 Sep 2006 03:02 GMT
There's no way I could train Isis to use a scratching post. I bought one.
and struck out. It was just another dud 'toy' that Her Majesty found boring.

In my case there was one couch that she loved to rip and tear up. That was
it. That one piece of furniture. Luckily for me it was a $50.00 hand me
down. My answer to the situation was to buy a cover for the couch at Sears.
When I open the door to that room she *still* makes a beeline for the couch
and starts doing scritch-scratch on it, with one wary eye on me since she
knows she's doing a Forbidden Thing, but I'm cool with it because after she
gets her little thrill all that's happened is a cover is slightly gnarled.

If your cat has fallen in love with one piece of furniture you can buy an
inexpensive cover for it and let her have at when she's knows you're not
looking - unless she buys into the scratching post in which case your
problems are solved.

Mike in Illinois

> Per MaryL:
>> yet it is not difficult to train a cat to use scratching post.
>
> Anybody have some suggestions on how to do this?   We're striking out so
> far...
~*Connie*~ - 30 Sep 2006 20:32 GMT
Get one that is taller than your hip.  Cats like to stretch when they
scratch, and most people buy scratching posts that come no higher than your
knee, which provides no support for the cat.  The bigger, the better.

> Per MaryL:
>> yet it is not difficult to train a cat to use scratching post.
>
> Anybody have some suggestions on how to do this?   We're striking out so
> far...
marika - 30 Sep 2006 01:12 GMT
> This is a very sore subject (no pun intended) on cats newsgroups.

You understand how scared the cat is then.

> Many of
> us feel that declawing is a cruel, inhumane procedure.

they contemplated patching me too when little. for a bad eye, but my
dad thought that was inhumane

>Ironically, it isn't
> even needed because most people who opt for declawing do it to "save" their
> furniture, yet it is not difficult to train a cat to use scratching post.

furniture is ruined easily by humans, and i know mine is
but i haven't declawed humans

>I
> don't have any experience with Soft Paws, but some people have also used
> that with good results.  Not only is this a cruel procedure, but it is often
> counterproductive.

they decided it was so bad that no patch would work.  and they didn't
have the surgery back then for it.  but even if the patch didn't work,
my dad thought it was inhumane

>Many cats (about 30%) that have been declawed then
> exhibit other "inappropriate" behavior such as biting and urinating outside
> the litter box.

I just hope you can figure out something to do with diet that can help
put some stop to it.

>Those poor little cats are then frequently abandoned or
> dumped at shelters.  Of those that are kept -- and they are many -- there is
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> illegal.  I would like to see the US follow suit.  There are a few cities
> that have outlawed declawing, so we may have hope...

I am researching it.  you should attempt to see a specialist

mk5000

'Not a hope in the world remained:
The swarming howling wretches below
Gained and gained and gained.
Skene looked at his pale young wife:--
'Is the time come?'--'The time is come!'--In The Round Tower At Jhansi,
christina rosetti
tension_on_the_wire - 30 Sep 2006 05:23 GMT
> I am from the UK and I have noticed in several threads about declawing, is
> this common in America ?  I have read of it in books and it is probably done
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> MD

Hi Mad Dog:

Why not try sprinkling a little catnip into the material of the post?
Bring kitty over to it right after you have done it....if he likes
catnip, he will develop quite a loving relationship with his
scratching post!

--tension
Mad Dog - 30 Sep 2006 09:28 GMT
|| Mad Dog wrote:
||| I am from the UK and I have noticed in several threads about
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
||
|| --tension

Thank you tension but I have no problem with my cat's and scratching posts,
I think it was someone else.

MD
tension_on_the_wire - 30 Sep 2006 20:07 GMT
> Thank you tension but I have no problem with my cat's and scratching posts,
> I think it was someone else.
>
> MD

Sorry, Mad Dog, I think I was meaning to reply to Pete's post.
Don't know what happened there!

--tension
(PeteCresswell) - 01 Oct 2006 01:34 GMT
Per tension_on_the_wire:
>Sorry, Mad Dog, I think I was meaning to reply to Pete's post.
>Don't know what happened there!
>
>--tension

Our animal seems indifferent to catnip.

Avoids those laundry "fluffy tissues" like the plague though and they're our
first line of furniture defense.

One thing I haven't heard anybody mention is hissing at the cat as a form of
negative reinforcement/communication.   Anybody care to comment?
Signature

PeteCresswell

Upscale - 01 Oct 2006 01:52 GMT
"(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid> wrote in message
> Our animal seems indifferent to catnip.

Mine too. Quickest $5 I ever wasted.

> One thing I haven't heard anybody mention is hissing at the cat as a form of
> negative reinforcement/communication.   Anybody care to comment?

Whatever I say to my cat, she ignores if she's not within reach or if I'm
not headed in her direction. Up close, tone of voice has an effect, but more
than ten feet away, she does what she damned well wants to do.
MaryL - 01 Oct 2006 02:11 GMT
> Per tension_on_the_wire:
>>Sorry, Mad Dog, I think I was meaning to reply to Pete's post.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> of
> negative reinforcement/communication.   Anybody care to comment?

My preference -- and it has worked very well for me -- is *positive*
reinforcement.  Gentle voice, do something pleasant to distract a cat (such
as toss a mouse for your cat to play with), etc.  Much better than negative
reinforcement, both for you and the cat.

MaryL
tension_on_the_wire - 01 Oct 2006 07:23 GMT
> One thing I haven't heard anybody mention is hissing at the cat as a form of
> negative reinforcement/communication.   Anybody care to comment?

As a matter of fact, that is the only form of
negative reinforcement I use. Luthien doesn't
need negative reinforcement, not for many years,
she's a clever girl who remembers all the lessons
she ever learned.

But little Muezza Glorio is only two months old so
he has a lot to learn, and since Luthien hisses
like crazy at him when he crosses the line,
Muezza Glorio understands completely the implications
of a hiss.  On the rare occasion that he manages to
slip out the door when I am coming in or out, there is
zero chance that I could catch him manually and so I hiss,
standing at the door.  I swear to you as soon as I start hissing,
he immediately turns around like a recalcitrant five year old
caught with hand in the cookie jar, and he runs right back
in the house.  It's so cute I immediately stop hissing and
start laughing!!  I'm not sure which one bothers him most!

--tension
wester@laway.net - 01 Oct 2006 20:48 GMT
>Per tension_on_the_wire:
>>Sorry, Mad Dog, I think I was meaning to reply to Pete's post.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Our animal seems indifferent to catnip.

Are you talking dried or fresh? Mine go nuts for fresh. The dry stuff
doesn't go over so well.

>One thing I haven't heard anybody mention is hissing at the cat as a form of
>negative reinforcement/communication.   Anybody care to comment?

I do this when Fray D is getting super aggressive on Xedo. It works.
Momentarily, at least.
LMadigan@hhnt.nhs.uk - 01 Oct 2006 23:30 GMT
.

> >One thing I haven't heard anybody mention is hissing at the cat as a form of
> >negative reinforcement/communication.   Anybody care to comment?

I have used growling as well as hissing with good results but only when
the situation is extreme eg chewing on electric cables

For scrathing issues sometimes its a matter of finding the right post.
The Furballs hate upright posts apart from using them to get to back of
the chair for a good scratch... Then I found Cosmic flat cardboard ones
which as soon as they were shown them, they leapt onto them and went
for them in a serious way

Of course Cosmic don't sell to the UK- the pet guy had got them as part
of a job lot and didn't have them anymore which is why I just spent
twenty quid on getting them off ebay

Are my cats spoilt? What do you think?

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
tension_on_the_wire - 02 Oct 2006 02:44 GMT
> Are my cats spoilt? What do you think?

Luthien the Elder has informed me that one cannot spoil
a cat if he, in truth, deserves everything he gets!

--tension
boris - 30 Sep 2006 15:58 GMT
They do need their claws. Americans are morons!
> I am from the UK and I have noticed in several threads about declawing, is
> this common in America ?  I have read of it in books and it is probably done
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> MD
Dan Espen - 30 Sep 2006 16:06 GMT
> They do need their claws.

They don't need their claws if they never go outside.
Lots of American cats never go outside.
Yeah, I know, that's cruel too.
But it's not cruel to the birds, chipmunks, groundhogs,
turkeys, that are overrunning this place.

> Americans are morons!

Yep, barely smarter than our cats but somehow
we get by.

:)
classact - 30 Sep 2006 16:41 GMT
>> They do need their claws.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> :)

Like your answer :)
Ivor Jones - 30 Sep 2006 17:11 GMT
> > They do need their claws.
>
> They don't need their claws if they never go outside.

Yes they do. Or don't you need your fingertips either..?

> Lots of American cats never go outside.

Just shows you, doesn't it.

> Yeah, I know, that's cruel too.

Yes it is, but you still do it.

God knows I don't dislike America, I have many good friends there and have
spent much time there over the years, but sometimes I despair.

Fortunately on my last visit I found this place http://www.natcat.org/ and
spent the best part of half a day at their Newport Beach shelter, so
there's still hope. Thanks to Dawn and the others for showing me around
:-)

Ivor
Dan Espen - 30 Sep 2006 17:39 GMT
>> > They do need their claws.
>>
>> They don't need their claws if they never go outside.
>
> Yes they do. Or don't you need your fingertips either..?

Is that what passes for logic where you come from?

It's true, my cat can no longer type 60WPM.

>> Lots of American cats never go outside.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Yes it is, but you still do it.

Funny how you cut out the part about the cruelty
to the wildlife.
Ivor Jones - 30 Sep 2006 23:03 GMT
> > > > They do need their claws.
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Is that what passes for logic where you come from?

The physical anatomy is similar. Decalwing amounts to cutting off at the
first knuckle.

Do you want pointers to pictures..?

> It's true, my cat can no longer type 60WPM.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Funny how you cut out the part about the cruelty
> to the wildlife.

Cats are predators. That's nature. Complain to God, not me.

Ivor
~*Connie*~ - 30 Sep 2006 20:45 GMT
if you don't think that cats with out claws can't catch birds, chipmunks,
groundhogs or any other thing their heart desires that they could catch with
claws, you are seriously mistaken.

Cats with out claws still can climb trees, or curtains, and can be just as
destructive as cats with their claws.  Granted, you won't get the pulled
apart couch, but they will still have their rear claws, and there is a lot
of damage those can still do.

I am not sure what the OP wanted to know.  Yes, Declawing is very popular in
the states and other countries.  Why?  Because vets tout it as being
acceptable and ok, and there are no  problems with it.  Why do they do that?
because declawing is a very expensive procedure and it makes them a lot of
money (same issue with dry cat food, but that is a rant for a different
post)

I don't have figures, but I bet 90 to 99% of people who have declawed cats
don't know how dramatic the surgery is, how much pain the cat goes through
while it is healing, and the possible side effects that most vets will tell
you "aren't documented"   Well they aren't documented because no one has
done an official study on it.  When I worked at a vet clinic, I went through
and marked all the declawed cats, and all the caution cats.  ALL the caution
cats were declawed (the scariest cat we had at the clinic had no claws and
no teeth) - but not all declawed cats were caution cats.

Yes, lots of cats are declawed with out incident, and go on to live
seemingly normal lives, but knowing what is involved, and how much pain they
go through, and the possible side effects (biting, inappropriate
elimination, possible arthritis from walking differently and throwing joints
off, etc) it floors me that people still do it.

The reason cats like furniture to scratch, is because it is big, and sturdy,
and doesn't move when they scratch it, and it is tall enough to provide a
good stretch.  When provided with scratching posts that are at LEAST 3 feet
tall and that has some heft to it, most cats will use them.  I have six
cats, and I have a 10 yr old couch that would be a scratching haven if I
hadn't provided appropriate scratching posts.  My couch is in great
condition...

>> They do need their claws.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> :)
Dan Espen - 30 Sep 2006 21:24 GMT
> if you don't think that cats with out claws can't catch birds, chipmunks,
> groundhogs or any other thing their heart desires that they could catch with
> claws, you are seriously mistaken.

I never said that did I?

I said an indoor cat doesn't need claws.

The cat is a predator.  The animals outside have to struggle to live.
They have to find enough food to live and avoid predators.
If you keep a cat and let it outside, you're subjecting the outside
animals to a predator that doesn't have to hunt to live,
it just kills by instinct.  The wildlife just doesn't have a chance.

If you think it's cruel to keep a cat inside,
I might agree.  Like humans, I think a cat enjoys the outdoors.
However, if you let a cat outside, it's cruel to the wildlife.

> declawing is a very expensive procedure and it makes them a lot of
> money

I didn't think it was expensive.
Remodeling a kitchen because all the cabinets were scratched up,
replacing the carpet because the cat had tunneled under it,
replacing couches, now, that's expensive.

> I don't have figures, but I bet 90 to 99% of people who have declawed cats
> don't know how dramatic the surgery is, how much pain the cat goes through
> while it is healing, and the possible side effects that most vets will tell
> you "aren't documented"

Sorry, I disagree.
Our kitten came home the next day and was walking around fine.
I wasn't there, but I have a suspicion the vet anesthetized the cat.
It can't be much worse that having wisdom teeth removed.
I've had that done, it didn't seem that bad.
Well, I did have one get infected.  That hurt but I survived that too.

> Yes, lots of cats are declawed with out incident, and go on to live
> seemingly normal lives, but knowing what is involved, and how much pain they
> go through, and the possible side effects (biting, inappropriate
> elimination, possible arthritis from walking differently and throwing joints
> off, etc) it floors me that people still do it.

The only thing I agree with here is biting.
The one declawed cat I know bit a lot harder than any other
cat I ever knew.

> The reason cats like furniture to scratch, is because it is big, and sturdy,
> and doesn't move when they scratch it, and it is tall enough to provide a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> hadn't provided appropriate scratching posts.  My couch is in great
> condition...

Yeah, aren't you the poster with scratching posts throughout the house?

Our previous cat scratched her post, and everything else she could get
her claws into.  I don't buy this 'train a cat' stuff.
I've been around cats too long.

Our Angel is a very happy cat, maybe the best one we've ever had.
She follows us around the house and comes when called.
She wouldn't be in the house at all if she had claws.
I've had enough of that.

There's all kinds of cruelty in this world.
If you don't adopt a cat, they might end up under a car
or at the ASPCA.  That's cruel too.
(PeteCresswell) - 01 Oct 2006 01:40 GMT
Per ~*Connie*~:
> When provided with scratching posts that are at LEAST 3 feet
>tall and that has some heft to it, most cats will use them.

Do you purchase yours or make them yourself?   What I've seen so far have been
basically plastic traffic cones covered in carpet - totally inadequate, IMHO.
Signature

PeteCresswell

classact - 01 Oct 2006 01:49 GMT
One of my cats uses a laundry hamper that has a wicker type base to it. I
dont use it for anything except a catch all...now its a scratching post. I
have purchased a tree house with scratching posts attached, so he uses
that,too.

> Per ~*Connie*~:
>> When provided with scratching posts that are at LEAST 3 feet
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> basically plastic traffic cones covered in carpet - totally inadequate,
> IMHO.
Upscale - 01 Oct 2006 01:58 GMT
"(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid> wrote in message

> Do you purchase yours or make them yourself?   What I've seen so far have been
> basically plastic traffic cones covered in carpet - totally inadequate, IMHO.

I made mine. Considering the time and effort it took, it would have been
easier for me to just work some extra hours to pay for it, but it's
definitely stronger and more solid than anything one would buy in a store.
MaryL - 01 Oct 2006 02:20 GMT
> Per ~*Connie*~:
>> When provided with scratching posts that are at LEAST 3 feet
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> basically plastic traffic cones covered in carpet - totally inadequate,
> IMHO.

PetSmart has a great scratching post -- 36" high, the one with a large
carpet-covered base that extends in front.  The cat stands on the base, and
that adds still more security.  You can see one in Duffy's album.  Scroll
down to about the 25th picture, and you can Duffy stretched out to his full
length while using the scratching post (much easier than it sounds -- little
thumbnails arranged vertically on the left side).  It is heavy and sturdy.
If I remember correctly, it cost about $35.00-$40.00.  If you are interested
in a cat tree, I got two from www.createacatcondo.com.  They are great!
They are made of solid wood, and this is a small company that will make one
to your exact specifications.  You can see the cat trees in several of the
photos (links in my signature).

MaryL
Photos of Duffy and Holly:      >'o'<
Duffy:  http://tinyurl.com/cslwf
Holly:  http://tinyurl.com/9t68o
Duffy and Holly together:  http://tinyurl.com/8b47e
Upscale - 01 Oct 2006 02:29 GMT
"MaryL" <stancole1@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message >
> PetSmart has a great scratching post -- 36" high, the one with a large
> carpet-covered base that extends in front.

http://www.petsmart.com/global/search/search_results.jsp?Nao=0&In=Cat&N=2025518&Ne=2
MaryL - 01 Oct 2006 03:42 GMT
> "MaryL" <stancole1@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message >
>> PetSmart has a great scratching post -- 36" high, the one with a large
>> carpet-covered base that extends in front.
>
> http://www.petsmart.com/global/search/search_results.jsp?Nao=0&In=Cat&N=2025518&Ne=2

I don't see the one I described on their website, but I found the identical
post at www.petfooddirect.com.  I order my cat food from them, and they are
very reliable.  The post is listed at $31.99 on their site.  You can see it
here:
http://www.petfooddirect.com/store/product_detail.asp?pf%5Fid=307175705&dept%5Fi
d=126&brand%5Fid=603&Page
=
(or use this tinyurl:  http://tinyurl.com/pkdsp).

Here is another one that I also have:
http://www.catgrace.com/ulsicatscpo31.html  I ordered it over the Internet,
and it is one of their favorites.  In fact, Duffy often climbs it and
perches on top!  The original top is polished wood, so I covered that with
padding and fabric to make sure he would have something to grip and not
slide off.  The post is covered with sisal fabric (very sturdy) rather than
the traditional wrapped sisal.  The post is heavy and sturdy.

MaryL
Outsider - 01 Oct 2006 16:21 GMT
> Per ~*Connie*~:
>> When provided with scratching posts that are at LEAST 3 feet
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> have been basically plastic traffic cones covered in carpet - totally
> inadequate, IMHO.

I have 2 of those columns the hold the house up and I carpeted them.  They
are structural parts of the house.  Zak has always loved climbing up and
down those and scratching on them.  He never goes to the furniture and did
only once the first day he was home.  I silently picked him up, brought him
to the post and praised the heck out of him when he started scratching it.
(PeteCresswell) - 01 Oct 2006 01:36 GMT
Per Dan Espen:
>They don't need their claws if they never go outside.

From what I've heard, they actually do.   Something to do with their gait and
the arthritis that sets in when they have to walk without claws.   Also
secondhand - my impression is that claw removal on a cat is functionally more
akin to toe and finger amputation in a human than toenail/fingernail removal.
Signature

PeteCresswell

Dan Espen - 01 Oct 2006 01:52 GMT
> Per Dan Espen:
>>They don't need their claws if they never go outside.
>
> From what I've heard, they actually do.   Something to do with their gait and
> the arthritis that sets in when they have to walk without claws.

Not evident in our 17 year old.  Same gait as any other cat
I've ever seen.  No problems walking or running.

> Also secondhand - my impression is that claw removal on a cat is functionally more
> akin to toe and finger amputation in a human than toenail/fingernail removal.

First hand, the cats "toes" are still there, pads and all.
She uses her paws as much as any other cat we've ever had.
Just loves to knock things off counters and hear a crash.
Upscale - 01 Oct 2006 01:57 GMT
"(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid> wrote in message
> From what I've heard, they actually do.   Something to do with their gait and
> the arthritis that sets in when they have to walk without claws.   Also
> secondhand - my impression is that claw removal on a cat is functionally more
> akin to toe and finger amputation in a human than toenail/fingernail removal.

I had my sweetie in the vet the other day for a check-up and a receptionist
was quoting someone over the phone on claw removal. She was pushing laser
claw removal which was more expensive than the regular surgery, but
supposedly far less traumatic than previous methods and healed quicker with
much less chance of infection. Don't know about either, I wouldn't have my
cat's claws removed, but I do trim them semi regularly, usually when she
reminds me by drawing blood from my knee or something.
classact - 01 Oct 2006 02:05 GMT
My last cat, Feisty is not declawed...Ornery was declawed by the laser
surgery.
Feisty, when he was neutered, had his claws trimmed back...They were so far
back, I thot the vet had declawed him,too...He, so far, has not used his
claws to attack me (except for the new hit over my left eye..while I was
"playing" with him)

> "(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid> wrote in message
>> From what I've heard, they actually do.   Something to do with their gait
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> cat's claws removed, but I do trim them semi regularly, usually when she
> reminds me by drawing blood from my knee or something.
classact - 01 Oct 2006 02:08 GMT
that should had been near hit, not new hit :)
> My last cat, Feisty is not declawed...Ornery was declawed by the laser
> surgery.
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>> cat's claws removed, but I do trim them semi regularly, usually when she
>> reminds me by drawing blood from my knee or something.
 
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