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Cat Forum / General Topics / September 2006Autism?
Hi all. The life story of our cat is relevant regarding what's happening to her now, so I'll start at the beginning. We got her from an SPCA organization (not spca but similar) at the age of 12 weeks. The most adorable kitten, still especially beautiful, but she showed behaviour problems from the word go. The first three days we had she had her face firmly pressed up against a corner in our bedroom. She didn't show any signs of her recognizing our attempts of getting in touch with her. After three days she started looking around, and immediately fell for my husband. She managed to get up in our bed and lay there licking his forehead all night. No need to mention he was pretty sore in his forehead, but allowed her to do it as she was so scared, and it seemed to comfort her. stay with me. After this intitial week she was more and more outgoing, playing with me, but always seeking comfort and petting from my husband. We assumed that whatever happened to her before we got her was done to her by a female, as she never cuddled with me, and if we got a female vistor she would be gone, as compared to when we got a male visitor she always came out after a while to say hello. Three years went by, she was always skittish. if we came into the same room as where she was we always had to get down and say hello, letting her come to us, before proceeding into the room, or she would run panicked. We were always considering her needs and reactions before doing anything really, as we felt so sad scaring her. I know it's long post, but please be patient She was fine really. She loved my husband and son, especially after he went through the from child to adult voice. They both would hold their hands up in knee height, and she would jump up to get stroked by the hand, litterally stroking herself against the hand. She was happy, as long as we were careful with what we exposed her to. Me - she accepted, but never got attached to. Now, please stay with me, a month ago we bought a cottage out in the country side. Our other cat took to the new enviroment like he's never done anything else, exploring and enjoying the nature (they both had been inndoor cats in the city earlier). But poor Susie...... she was just petrified. She would hide under a blanket, with her nose firmly lodged into a corner in the bedroom. Like we were back to stage one when she was a kitten. Nothing we could do seem to get through to her, any comfort seemed like an intrusion, she was just litterally stiff with fear. After three days we took her back to the apartment as we couldn't stand seeing her like that. Now almost three weeks later she hasn't improved. She's hiding in one of the bedrooms, occationally coming out for food and potty, occationally coming out to cuddle with my husband, as she always used to do, but now only for short periods of time before going back to her hiding place. She's still petrified! Anyone seen this kind of behaviour before? I know there's nothing the people in her enviroment is doing or has been doing (except from taking her out to the cabin) that should make her this scared. And even an experience like this shouldn't have made her so terribly scared.... Lasting for 3 weeks in her home of 3 years! She's still not back to normal after three weeks. Anyone known anything similar? Anybody know what might be wrong? Anyone know what we can do to help her? Much appreciated for any feedback. Ok picture this you moved the furball STRESS BIG TIME They are indoor cats now allowed to go outdoors which they have never done before STRESS also IMO can be dangerous but not here to start that debate again :-) She was skittish to begin with now new environment, NEW STRESS. STRESS can kill humans think about what it can do to a child let alone a cat. Cats are resilient in adapting but stress is one factor that changes individuals in different ways. Some people can't handle it same with cats 3 weeks is nothing to worry about. They are not people but sure act like them. It may take years for her to calm back down not saying it will. But think about it from a shy child perspective it may take a while to come back out of its shell There are several remedies you can do Feliway other anxiety medications that a vet can prescribe if it comes to that. IMO a lot of love and attention with quiet areas and on the furballs terms will help out immensely. Keep the furball inside for the time being no more stress factors should be added. When and if she is ready to go out she will let you know. You might be even able to bond with her more if you do it right and take your time > Hi all. > [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > Much appreciated for any feedback. I'm the one with the sore forehead... McEve does not have a problem bonding with the cat, and have extensive experience with cats from breeding, for instance. They go along fine, just not as close as the cat and I. But this is not the problem anyway. The problem is the cats' anxiety which really seems extreme to us.  Signature____ Rolf > Ok picture this you moved the furball STRESS BIG TIME > [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] >> >> Much appreciated for any feedback. > I'm the one with the sore forehead... > > McEve does not have a problem bonding with the cat, and have extensive > experience with cats from breeding, for instance. They go along fine, just > not as close as the cat and I. But this is not the problem anyway. The > problem is the cats' anxiety which really seems extreme to us. It is extreme but it's happeneing because of something in her past. I would try the Feliaway and if nothing else helps, some elavil. Your vet should be able to guide you in the right direction. -L. Matthew, I am with you for the most part, but you don't find the obsessive behaviors such as face pressed in a corner and licking foreheads all night and strong distaste for female voices to be excessive... beyond a normal fraidy cat? When I read the story, I truly heard a lot of evidence that this cat has a bigger issue than just being skittish. I agree, it is not unusual for a few weeks to pass to recover from fear. I had one many years ago that is only now finally returning somewhat to "normal", but I think the circumstances here don't warrant such an extreme reaction. This cat was not locked away from his daddy at any time in this new place, for one thing. With my cat, I had a 2 year old that had been born in a loud house in the country with small children and lots of people traffic, so he was not afraid of sudden movement or strangers. My place at the time was a 3rd floor apartment in the city. He was allowed on the balcony, but other than that was strictly kept under lock and key. I left for a period and hired a housesitter, who somehow managed to lose the cat. He was lost in the city for two weeks. When I finally found him, he dashed to run away as soon as he saw my figure, until I said his name (something finally familiar to him) and he stopped dead in his tracks and turned back to me. You could see "Thank Heaven" written all across his face. I took him upstairs to his familiar home, and he was generally skittish for a few days, but soon started acting like his old self in the apartment and with me or people he knew. It has taken years for him to start trusting strangers again, so I totally agree they can hold these things close for a long time. However, in my case and I would think in most cases, their unsettled behavior is more logical based on the circumstances. My cat developed a long term fear of things moving fast at him and of strange people, and he held onto it. But he quickly adjusted back to being comfortable with his own home and family. McEve's story does not sound logical or normal to me. It sounds extreme, especially considered that the story began with a kitten. Yes, a normal routine will eventually help the cat come around, but I would definitely not blow it off as a normal reaction to stress. I am not trying to go against you, by any means, I am simply asking you to re-evaluate for a sec and tell me if you still think this is normal. And in the process, keep the conversation open to everyone looking at different viewpoints because I am quite interested in this one!! > Ok picture this you moved the furball STRESS BIG TIME > [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] >> >> Much appreciated for any feedback. The reason I was calm about the reply in that last 30 years in the shelters, doing volunteer work and rescue. I have come across so much that nothing surprises me. There is more to the picture than being told. Nothing against the poster or anyone but NO ONE can get the whole picture unless we are there. They can give us all the information in the world but something is always missed. The skittish part is I have had cat so skittish that if any one other than the DW came near she would hid for weeks doing the same thing. One would not even come out for anyone. Nothing surprises me. I have had behaviorist and the vets do their thing sometimes they can help sometimes they can't 3 weeks with on going stress in the environment ( which I am guessing at but assuming from the post ) is not extreme but just reoccurrence. You got to treat it like shell shock. She was a pampered furball that got thrown into the frying pan sort to say. She is still eating, She is still coming to the husband to be loved. She is still using the bathroom. She is staying in her safe place. It will take time. I would be worried if she was none of the above Cats can pick up on human's stress and the wife may be inadvertently in her worry over the furballs might be being picked up by the furball making it worse IMO. Yes it does sound extreme. I know you are a vet tech but have you ever worked an abused animals or an animal from a collectors home. the cats can be the same way find a nice place to hide, come out when they want to, eat and do their thing for quite a while. I have seen it last for months even heard of it taking years. < More Below > > Matthew, > I am with you for the most part, but you don't find the obsessive > behaviors such as face pressed in a corner and licking foreheads all night > and strong distaste for female voices to be excessive... beyond a normal > fraidy cat? When I read the story, I truly heard a lot of evidence that > this cat has a bigger issue than just being skittish. Yes there is more going on. I agree on that > I agree, it is not unusual for a few weeks to pass to recover from fear. > I had one many years ago that is only now finally returning somewhat to [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > routine will eventually help the cat come around, but I would definitely > not blow it off as a normal reaction to stress. Didn't mean to seem like to blow it off as a simple response but sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one. IMO a lot of TLC is needed and a lot of PATIENCE. And also a vet visit should be appropriate at least when in doubt VET time always. A vet and or a behaviorist would be the second step and or a definite must. A few home remedies might help the situation first like Feliway find away to keep stress away from the household. But if the simple steps don't work I have a feeling medication will be required. I just hate to see that done unless absolutley necessary. <- there is a story behind that with my Rumble But IMO there more going on like I said before but we have to see the situation to really judge it. That is the bad part of words unless there is emotion behind them they are just a guideline. > I am not trying to go against you, by any means, I am simply asking you to > re-evaluate for a sec and tell me if you still think this is normal. And > in the process, keep the conversation open to everyone looking at > different viewpoints because I am quite interested in this one!! No problem I do my best not to jump the gun. I am old enough that I can tell a personal attack. Please never hold back. If I am wrong I will say I was wrong. I learned my lesson years ago it was called marriage ;-) >> Ok picture this you moved the furball STRESS BIG TIME >> [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] >>> >>> Much appreciated for any feedback. > 3 weeks with on going stress in the environment ( which I am guessing at > but assuming from the post ) is not extreme but just reoccurrence. You [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > her worry over the furballs might be being picked up by the furball making > it worse IMO. She was at the cabin for three days, it's after three weeks at home she still isn't her self. I know it's easy to blame the owners, but I can assure you that I have read a lot about cat (and dog) psychology, and do have a bit of experience with cats (and dogs and horses) and don't think I made it worse for her. Besides, daddy was much more worried than me, that's why we now have Thomas, my companion for 15 years at the cottage with me, while hubby is home with Susie ;) About coming to hubby to be loved - no - he comes to her and she lets him in short periods be patted, and no animal likes to mess themselves.... and it's not because she's spoilt - she really is scared. I would think normally it would get better. she was stable after three years. The reaction was not normal, abused cat or not. 3 days in a corner is not normal...(that's when we took her home again, I don't know how long she would have stayed there if let) Wasn't blaming you please don't take it like I was >> 3 weeks with on going stress in the environment ( which I am guessing at >> but assuming from the post ) is not extreme but just reoccurrence. You [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > is not normal...(that's when we took her home again, I don't know how long > she would have stayed there if let) > She was at the cabin for three days, it's after three weeks at home she > still isn't her self. I know it's easy to blame the owners, but I can assure [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I would think normally it would get better. she was stable after three > years. The reaction was not normal, abused cat or not. Actually it is normal for a severely abused cat. >3 days in a corner is > not normal...(that's when we took her home again, I don't know how long she > would have stayed there if let) Also, she may have brain damage you never knew about. With an unkown history there could be a number of factors at play. -L. > Also, she may have brain damage you never knew about. With an unkown > history there could be a number of factors at play. yes, I have kept that option open, wondering if she has some form of autism. She was mute until well over 6 months old. She would open her mouth and look likeshe was meowing, but no sound came out. She still doesn't meow like "normal" cats, her preffered sound is like a loud turtledove - and purring. Occationally she gives out a very croaky squeky meow. I don't know if that means anything, but she is like no other cat I've ever had. Thorough response, Matthew, thanks. I see your point of view, and it makes sense. To answer your specific question about "have you ever" I will say yes. I have been doing feline rescue/rehabilitation for about 10 years. Joined forces with another person to open the first official non-profit feline organization in our county 6, almost 7 years ago now. I have also seen some pretty messed up felines that do not cope with any type of change well, but nothing like this when starting with a kitten. Sometimes they will get spooked and hide for a few days, but not do odd things like fear all women and press their faces in a corner. Cats hate to face corners, usually, because it makes them more vulnerable. I do see cats face the corner within a cage or carrier sometimes, but never in an open room where they can choose a closet or under the bed instead if they wish. Anyway, there's your answer, and thanks for putting up such a thorough one in response to my questions! > The reason I was calm about the reply in that last 30 years in the > shelters, doing volunteer work and rescue. I have come across so much [quoted text clipped - 193 lines] >>>> >>>> Much appreciated for any feedback. Gladly I am here to make friends and help if I can > Thorough response, Matthew, thanks. I see your point of view, and it > makes sense. To answer your specific question about "have you ever" I [quoted text clipped - 210 lines] >>>>> >>>>> Much appreciated for any feedback. >> I have seen it last for months even heard of it taking years. When starting with a 12 week old kitten? the ones that I had started at less than that age. the years was from stories on the internet and other workers >>> I have seen it last for months even heard of it taking years. > > When starting with a 12 week old kitten? Oh my word, what a story. I am a vet student and VERY interested in this case. I cannot, however, say that I am of any help at this point in my career. I do hope some of the other members have some insights that might help, but in the meantime I would like to suggest that you contact a vet school with this. What state are you in? With such a highly unusual case, I would suggest that your best bet is the "center" for unusual cases... the vet school! And if they don't have a specialist that is appropriate to your case, then at the very least they are likely the best possible referral service that you will find. Come on gang, there must be someone out there that has encoutered something this extreme? I have seen some seriously scared cats, but the pressed face in the corner for 3 days, licking forehead, and not recovering after 3 weeks are extreme. If you do decide to enlist the help of a behavior specialist beyond just a phone call, please be prepared with video footage of the cat's behavior. This is often critical, because there is no other way for them to see precisely what you are talking about. Verbalizing is good, video is better. And clearly you won't be taking this kitty into the clinic. Speaking of which, has this cat ever been to a vet other than what the shelter did before you got her? > Hi all. > [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > Much appreciated for any feedback. > Oh my word, what a story. > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Speaking of which, has this cat ever been to a vet other than what the > shelter did before you got her? Yes she has been to the vet, and gone into shock for a couple of days after, but nowhere near this extreme. She's had all her shots, and she's spayed - she even handled the collar (big white lamp hade thing) to prevent her from reching the stiches fairly well. Here's a picture of the little sweetheart, we love her so much http://public.qtopia.no/snus.jpg We have been talking about getting in touch with the veterinary high school to see if somebody has any offer to give, but I'm not sure they have a behaviourial specialst there. We're not as advanced in pet care here as you are in US. My husband was just on the floor, enticing her out of the bedroom, she flinched when she saw me, but settled when I pussed her, allowing my husband to spend a bit more time with her, reassuring. Now she's back in the bedroom again. The fact that the other cat that she grew up together with her is here doesn't make a difference. She won't be staying permanently at the cabin, and she's left at home together with my husband now, when me and the other cat when we go. But I would love for her to be out with Thomas (other cat) and enjoy the fresh air. Åresent: She's out from the bedroom again. As I already told you I'm the one she accepts and not love, but she's also extremely sensitive to sounds, so maybe the fact that this horrible woman is here talking after all is a normalization of the situation....? Me and thomas has been at the cabin for two weeks. Oh, not from the states, what country? Before I say what I am going to say I should qualify it with announcing that I DO NOT believe in throwing drugs at cats every time they twitch.... however... Are you aware that there are antidepressants/antianxiety medications available if it is established that there is a medical need for them? Prescription only, as it should be. >> Oh my word, what a story. >> [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > all is a normalization of the situation....? Me and thomas has been at the > cabin for two weeks. Oh, I see that you have done some breeding so I'll just answer my own post... of course you know! > Oh, not from the states, what country? > [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] >> all is a normalization of the situation....? Me and thomas has been at >> the cabin for two weeks. I don't believe in that wither. But ... you can come and try to administer drugs to her if you want to :D I'll call 911 while you're at it :) She has never accepted being held, daddy can carry her if he supports all for paws and only for short periods. When something unpleasant will have to be done I'm the one who has to have done it. Logic behind it is not to ruin the trust and love she has towards my husband and son, me - I'm the scary lady anyway. I still have holes in my arms after her canine teeth from when we had to give her a bath. And she doesn't just bite or scratch like a normal cat, she hangs onto you, digging the teeth or claws for all they're worth into you.... again - total panic. You're right, she was never away from her daddy when we were at the cabin, but neither of us could "reach" her - she was too scared. I've never tried to but in on her relationship with daddy either, as it was obious from the word go that she was in need of extra gentle care. One person recommended this product http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=8906&Ntt=feliaway& Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=2002&Nty=1 but I can't see how they possibly could have produced a generic friendly smell? All cats have their own, or so I always believed... The story you told about your cat illustrates how important sound is compared to sight, and everything Susie (the cat) has done/her reactions, points to voices being the important thing. I experiementet with making my voice very deep when she was a kitten, and it worked! She responded with happiness. It doesn't work now though :) I still love her dearly, and really feel a great deal of empathy towards how scared she is. I just don't percieve it as normal or the result of a traumatic experience in childhood anymore. It's too extreme. I think she's got some kind of medical condition....? > Oh, I see that you have done some breeding so I'll just answer my own > post... of course you know! Oh, Iforget, when our other cat met her for the first time after our stay at the cabin, he went to her and started licking her face. She enjoyed that as long as it lasted, but when he stopped she turned and hissed at him. She still hasn't been near him after that first encounter. I realize he would smell differently now, but she did allow him to lick her first.... McEve I could be anything. A vet visit would sooth your mind and nerves. Your cat could simply be suffering from stress down to having a stroke or diabetes causing the change in personality. Anything is possible. As the furballs family when in doubt go to the vet Try the feliway before you take her in. Spray some right in the carrier. You can get it at your vets or local pet store. It takes a couple days and people swear by it. In the shelter we used it. you can imagine the stress there >I don't believe in that wither. But ... you can come and try to administer >drugs to her if you want to :D I'll call 911 while you're at it :) She has [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >cat, she hangs onto you, digging the teeth or claws for all they're worth >into you.... again - total panic. That is a normal reaction for a cat when they are scared. I think all of us bear war scars > You're right, she was never away from her daddy when we were at the cabin, > but neither of us could "reach" her - she was too scared. I've never tried [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > but I can't see how they possibly could have produced a generic friendly > smell? All cats have their own, or so I always believed... Too many to list I used webferret and got over 452 verified hits http://www.vpl.com/product.php?catmain=&mainkey=&pid=58&key=24&cat=Behavior http://www.catfaeries.com/feliway.html http://www.feliway.com/homefeliway.nsf http://www.24hourpet.com/animal-behavior-feliway-cats-c-70_102.html?osCsid=e458a 8be0068b787c2cfc9a93e2d1371 > The story you told about your cat illustrates how important sound is > compared to sight, and everything Susie (the cat) has done/her reactions, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> Oh, I see that you have done some breeding so I'll just answer my own >> post... of course you know! > McEve I could be anything. A vet visit would sooth your mind and nerves. > Your cat could simply be suffering from stress down to having a stroke or > diabetes causing the change in personality. Anything is possible. As the > furballs family when in doubt go to the vet She's always been like what I described, so I don't think there's a sudden disease she's suffering from. Just for sake of it, can a cat be autistic? I know her reactions match the symptoms, but don't know if animals get this disorder? Reason why I think there's more to it is that this has been going on since since she was a kitten at 12 weeks old. In the beginning I thought she was abused, by a woman, but I'm starting to think there's more to it. >> McEve I could be anything. A vet visit would sooth your mind and >> nerves. Your cat could simply be suffering from stress down to having a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > kitten at 12 weeks old. In the beginning I thought she was abused, by a > woman, but I'm starting to think there's more to it. Never heard of one being so. You may want to video tape if you can and take it to an animal behaviorist or a vet experienced in psychological behavior Ps I was meaning your were causing a problem or that you have caused a problem. If that was misconstrued I am sorry I have been looking in some of my resources for cat autism and so far come up relatively empty. Lots about mice, nothing about cats so far. I have access to more resources at the school, so maybe I'll revisit. >> McEve I could be anything. A vet visit would sooth your mind and >> nerves. Your cat could simply be suffering from stress down to having a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > kitten at 12 weeks old. In the beginning I thought she was abused, by a > woman, but I'm starting to think there's more to it. As I continued searches on another database, I did see a recurring theme. That of cats and dogs being diagnosed with environmental hypersensitivity and social disorders "that resemble autism in humans." I cannot find anywhere that the term autism is used as a specific diagnosis for a companion animal. Even in the mouse studies, it is call "autistic-like" symptoms. But yes, it is clear that cats, dogs, and mice can get environmental hypersensitivity. It is actually commonly known that cats can get a hypersensitivity of the skin. Related? Maybe. >I have been looking in some of my resources for cat autism and so far come >up relatively empty. Lots about mice, nothing about cats so far. I have [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> was a kitten at 12 weeks old. In the beginning I thought she was abused, >> by a woman, but I'm starting to think there's more to it. Feliway is designed to mimic phermones... I personally don't buy it. Never seen it work. But I'm just one person... Matthew clearly has a lot of experience and he feels that it might be worth trying. I will be surprised the first time I see it do any good, but I will also be pleased! In theory, it is a good idea and should have some effect. Personally, if I am trying to create a scent happy environment, I usually opt for sprinkling dried catnip all over the place. Cats vary in their response to catnip, but often times it will cause them to relax for a short period of time. A lot of times, that short period of time is enough to get them past a "hump." But we're talking about "normal" and yours may not be normal. As far as medical issues that could cause such behavior, it has occurred to me that she could have some oddity in her hearing. If the world is either amplified or if certain tones are painful, then the behavior would start to make sense to me. Imagine if you go out to the country and the constant sound of crickets is blasting away outside at an octave that is highly unpleasant to the ears. Think about those high frequency speakers that are strategically placed to keep pests away because the sound has been found to be so annoying to them. Then consider being stuck in a world where you hear this sort of thing all the time. ***Now, for the important part of what I am saying*** I am exploring an option ONLY. I have NEVER seen this before. Lets just make that clear! Could be because it has never existed, could be because it has never been diagnosed, or could be just because I haven't happened to be on duty when it was. It would be a highly difficult thing to diagnose, anyway. But I have seen stranger things... The whole thing could be all in her head, for real. Total mental misinterpretation of the world. Or... maybe she really did have THAT bad of a start that she just can't cope. The all women thing is weird. I have definitely never seen that. How old was she when you got her? >I don't believe in that wither. But ... you can come and try to administer >drugs to her if you want to :D I'll call 911 while you're at it :) She has [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >> Oh, I see that you have done some breeding so I'll just answer my own >> post... of course you know! > Feliway is designed to mimic phermones... I personally don't buy it. > Never seen it work. But I'm just one person... Matthew clearly has a lot [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > to get them past a "hump." But we're talking about "normal" and yours may > not be normal. I'm convinced there's more to it, but I also belive she was abused. - by a woman. We were at the shelter when father and son brought her in. We had to wait for 4 weeks before we could get her. They did say it was mom that didn't want her - eavesdropping didn't get me more info... > As far as medical issues that could cause such behavior, it has occurred > to me that she could have some oddity in her hearing. If the world is [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > would be a highly difficult thing to diagnose, anyway. But I have seen > stranger things.. I don't think there's anything wrong with her hearing..... nothing else points to that > The whole thing could be all in her head, for real. Total mental > misinterpretation of the world. Maybe she's getting panick attacks similar to those people get where they get totally incapacitated when stricken.... > Or... maybe she really did have THAT bad of a start that she just can't > cope. The all women thing is weird. I have definitely never seen that. > How old was she when you got her? 12 weeks only, we could only pet her with one finger :) No room for more on her back! Interesting what you found about autism like symptoms. That's how I interpret her behaviour! First, let me toss out a little something... Abuse is WAY over assumed. Skittish animals with no known history turn up all the time and they get rescued by kind folks who believe they have "rescued" them from an abusive home. I am not saying that this kitten was or was not abused, I am simply commenting that this is frequently assumed when it is NOT the case. That said... Have you considered that maybe mom didn't want the kitten because the kitten couldn't stand the mom? > I'm convinced there's more to it, but I also belive she was abused. - by a > woman. We were at the shelter when father and son brought her in. We had > to wait for 4 weeks before we could get her. They did say it was mom that > didn't want her - eavesdropping didn't get me more info... . > I'm convinced there's more to it, but I also belive she was abused. - by a > woman. We were at the shelter when father and son brought her in. We had to > wait for 4 weeks before we could get her. They did say it was mom that > didn't want her - eavesdropping didn't get me more info... McEve: My heartfelt sympathies go out to you. It must be just heartbreaking not to be able to develop the traditional affections with this cat that you clearly love very much. I know something of how difficult this is. I had very similar problems with Zildjian who passed away two years ago at the age of 13. I had very limited ways that I could handle or interact with her, and there was no person to intercede for me all those years. In the last five years of her life, despite starting out as an indoor cat since kittenhood, she was almost entirely feral, living out of our garage with a permanently open door to the garden, as it would break my heart to fence her in or close her out of shelter. I was the only human to handle her, ever, apart from the first six weeks of her life, and I got her from her litter at the home of a co-worker. There was no real explanation for her behaviour, except for a few subtle suspicions that she may have been fathered by a wildcat (such as a lynx, bobcat, or something of that nature). She was a remarkable-looking cat....but apart from particularly long tufts coming out her ears, there were no obvious hints to look at her. But her behaviour was, as she got older, more and more indicative of a cat that did not seem to have a total grasp of domestic life with humans, but had a fresh influx of wild genes that seemed to affect her behaviour regardless of how much time, effort and love was put into her care. Nonetheless, there were clear indications that she wanted to trust me, and did trust me in a sense and that, no matter how many times she would run from my hands if I held them out, she would still seek me out for company, and, finally, after years, she would approach and even lie down on me, if my hands were safely out of sight. It seemed that she was limited by her own instincts or programming from doing what she *wanted* to do, but could not for overwhelming fear. Any sound, and I mean *any* sound, sent her running for cover. She acted like a formerly abused cat, but I know she never was. Please don't get too discouraged. You are fortunate to have another person there (DH) who can help the situation and communicate the love to her for the both of you. Be patient, as you *are* being, and allow her the things she needs to be secure. It is most selfless of you to give so much of yourself, while feeling little return....but consider that maybe she feels different from how she must behave, if there is something affecting her. Have you tried lying flat down on the floor for periods of time, with your hands hidden under your body, with a favourite food treat about one foot from your face? Letting her eat and run, but doing it as a regular routine....she might come to like being near your face if she knows she does not have to contend with hands. It will take a long while to work, but I think you have the patience for long-time solutions or ideas. --tension Thanks you fro sharing your story, your cat sounds like a very special cat too :) > My heartfelt sympathies go out to you. It must be just heartbreaking > not to be able to develop the traditional affections with this cat that > you clearly love very much. I know something of how difficult this is. This is not how I see it. Susie loves her daddy, Thomas, or other cat, loves his mommy :) It's not like I don't have a relationship with her, I just get the crumbs of her affection LOL She has during the three years we've had her jumped up on my lap a total of....5 times I guess, purring and wanting cuddles. It's rare moments, but very special ;) I jsut whish we can find a way to help her as she's clearly in dire distress at the moment. BUT, good news, she did come out of the bedroom today, and said hello to both me and hubby. Only a 3 minute session, but the first one in three weeks. >Hi all. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >weeks. The most adorable kitten, still especially beautiful, but she showed >behaviour problems from the word go. <snip> I know cats hate change. They really, really hate it. If you go to the cottage again, leave her at home. She took a while to adjust, but now seems comfortable there. Give her lots of pets and attention. She'll probably be alright. Please don't place her in a "center." This is the worst move you could make. Just keep her at home. a "center"? Is this something that exists for cats? My suggestion for calling a vet school and connecting with a behaviorist would not involve taking the cat anywhere at all for a while. She would start with a phone call, maybe advance to a visit armed with a video tape and NO cat, and then go from there. No "center" if such place actually exists! >>Hi all. >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > She'll probably be alright. Please don't place her in a "center." This > is the worst move you could make. Just keep her at home. >a "center"? >Is this something that exists for cats? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >and NO cat, and then go from there. No "center" if such place actually >exists! Gee, thanks for your input, soon to be vet. I hope I never have to take my cats to you! >>>Hi all. >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> She'll probably be alright. Please don't place her in a "center." This >> is the worst move you could make. Just keep her at home. >>Hi all. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > <snip> I know cats hate change. They really, really hate it. Not nessesarily. Thomas loves it there. >If you go > to the cottage again, leave her at home. She took a while to adjust, > but now seems comfortable there. Give her lots of pets and attention. She's been getting that :) and will keep getting it > She'll probably be alright. Please don't place her in a "center." This > is the worst move you could make. Just keep her at home. A center..? never. She's our Snus and will always be. (snus means sniffing in our language. She's always been acutely aware of smells, her nose moves like a rabbits when she inspects things, so we ended up calling her Snus :) She's always had a major inner conflict between curiosity and freight. More often than not the curiosity has won. That's why we thought her ready for a week at the cabin... I'm still most curious, what language is your home language? Where are you from? > A center..? never. She's our Snus and will always be. (snus means sniffing > in our language. She's always been acutely aware of smells, her nose moves > like a rabbits when she inspects things, so we ended up calling her Snus > :) > I'm still most curious, what language is your home language? Where are > you from? I'm from Norway, Norwegain is my native tounge >> I'm still most curious, what language is your home language? Where are >> you from? > > I'm from Norway, Norwegain is my native tounge Beautiful country Love the food and the people What do we know about Norway? I would like to visit someday and find out. While in Africa, I spent about a month working with a man we all called Norway (because that was his home, of course). Frederick just didn't suit him :-) Anyway, he told us all about how great the landscape is there and made it sound like a "pure" country, if that makes any sense. He told stories that made me want to visit someday for sure! It seems to me a relatively quiet country. What, do you all keep a low profile to keep us obnoxious foreigners out??? Just kidding :-) >> I'm still most curious, what language is your home language? Where are >> you from? > > I'm from Norway, Norwegain is my native tounge > What, do you all keep a low profile to keep us obnoxious foreigners out??? hehe, we stay up here in our little corner of the world and keep a low profile ;) Nothing much ever happens in our stick of the woods :D > Hi all. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > corner in our bedroom. She didn't show any signs of her recognizing our > attempts of getting in touch with her. That's a symptom of seizure. >After three days she started looking > around, and immediately fell for my husband. She managed to get up in our [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Anyone seen this kind of behaviour before? She's been abused. Animals sometimes don't ever get over that. > I know there's nothing the people > in her enviroment is doing or has been doing (except from taking her out to > the cabin) that should make her this scared. And even an experience like > this shouldn't have made her so terribly scared.... Lasting for 3 weeks in > her home of 3 years! She's still not back to normal after three weeks. Change has been traumatic for her in the past, somehow. You have to rebuild her trust. > Anyone known anything similar? Anybody know what might be wrong? Anyone know > what we can do to help her? Lots of love and patience! -L. >> The first three days we had she had her face firmly pressed up against a >> corner in our bedroom. She didn't show any signs of her recognizing our >> attempts of getting in touch with her. > > That's a symptom of seizure. There's no shaking or unnatural bending of the body. she just lies there, totally oblivious of her surroundings and us. > Change has been traumatic for her in the past, somehow. You have to > rebuild her trust. After three years we thought we had :( >> Anyone known anything similar? Anybody know what might be wrong? Anyone >> know >> what we can do to help her? > > Lots of love and patience! She's getting that :) > -L. >>> The first three days we had she had her face firmly pressed up against a >>> corner in our bedroom. She didn't show any signs of her recognizing our [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > There's no shaking or unnatural bending of the body. she just lies there, > totally oblivious of her surroundings and us. That only happens with certain types of seizures. Rumble is epileptic he seizure went from blank stares to the shakes The total oblivious can be a symptom of a seizure >> Change has been traumatic for her in the past, somehow. You have to >> rebuild her trust. > > After three years we thought we had :( But something happened to make you start all over again >>> Anyone known anything similar? Anybody know what might be wrong? Anyone >>> know [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > She's getting that :) Keep it up you are doing the right thing in trying to find out what the problem of ;-) >> -L. Keep it up you are doing the right thing in trying to find out what the problem is ;-) sorry dang fingers Ditto. "Checking out" can be, I can't say much about that because I haven't seen it diagnosed. Never heard of a 3 day seizure of any kind, though. It is in the realm of possibility that your cat has seizures and you don't even know it, but you can't tell without a vets help on the day of. Preferably during an episode, actually. "Matthew" <Iamacatslave@proudtoserve.com> wrote in message news:HH%Qg.4208 >>> That's a symptom of seizure. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > seizure went from blank stares to the shakes > The total oblivious can be a symptom of a seizure > >> The first three days we had she had her face firmly pressed up against a > >> corner in our bedroom. She didn't show any signs of her recognizing our [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > There's no shaking or unnatural bending of the body. she just lies there, > totally oblivious of her surroundings and us. Sometimes they will "posture" - just press their head into a wall or corner. They don't have traditional symptoms. If she was sitting in the corner, that's different than pressing her head into it. If she was truly pressing her head into it, it's more indicative of seizure. -L. Interesting. A new topic for me to chase... I'll do that on my own time, though, and not bore you all with what I learn :-) Then I'll be more knowledgable the next time the topic comes around! "-L." < > Sometimes they will "posture" - just press their head into a wall or > corner. They don't have traditional symptoms. If she was sitting in > the corner, that's different than pressing her head into it. If she > was truly pressing her head into it, it's more indicative of seizure. > > -L. If she > was truly pressing her head into it, it's more indicative of seizure. She's not pressing her into the corner, just laying with her nose in the corner, totally paralyzed with fear. Not making any sounds, and not responding when we try to get in touch with her. She might turn her head towards us for a second or two, but that's all. We can see in hereyes that she's "there", she just whish she wasn't.... if that makes sense? >> Hi all. >> [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > > -L. I really think you should talk to a vet willing to help you find a way to medicate the cat (there must be some way). Anti-anxiety meds can break the cycle of fear your cat may be stuck in. They need not become a permanent thing. If you can't give this cat a better quality of life you will have only one choice left. > I really think you should talk to a vet willing to help you find a way to > medicate the cat (there must be some way). Nuhu, none uf us are going to stick a tablet down her throat. Our lifes would be in danger :P She draws blood when wanting to go and somebody tries to prevent her. >> I really think you should talk to a vet willing to help you find a >> way to medicate the cat (there must be some way). > > Nuhu, none uf us are going to stick a tablet down her throat. Our > lifes would be in danger :P She draws blood when wanting to go and > somebody tries to prevent her. Understood but there are other ways to get meds into the cat. Good luck with the behaviour person; they should have some insights to help. Andy Oh pshaw, on Fri 22 Sep 2006 12:51:16p, McEve meant to say... > Hi all. > [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > > Much appreciated for any feedback. These are probably stupid questions, but have you or your husband held her gently and talked softly and lovingly to her? If you haven't, it might help. I had a rescue cat that I adopted as an adult. From the beginning she would "plaster" herself against the wall in a closet or in a corner. She responded extremely well to holding and soft speaking, and it seemed a comfort to her. From her records, she had apparently been badly abused before I got her. It might be worth a try... SignatureWayne Boatwright __________________________________________________ Useless Invention: Double-sided playing cards. > These are probably stupid questions, but have you or your husband held her > gently and talked softly and lovingly to her? Oh yes, for three years, every day several times a day. As I wrote earlier we always go down on our knees and talks to her if she's in the room we enter, talks to her until she comes over to sniff us and stroke against us, that goes for me as well as hubby. She used to jump up on hubbys lap whenever he sits down in front of the telly, sometimes they sleep in the chair together, with Susie on his chest. She has steady and surely become more and more "normally" behaved during this three years. Looking like she felt fairly safe , although always skittish. This is why we were so taken back by the extreme reaction to being taken to the cabin (together with her catbuddy and both of us). Oh pshaw, on Sat 23 Sep 2006 05:45:24a, McEve meant to say... >> These are probably stupid questions, but have you or your husband held >> her gently and talked softly and lovingly to her? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > This is why we were so taken back by the extreme reaction to being taken > to the cabin (together with her catbuddy and both of us). In that case, I can only think that because of her "nature", the cabin was overwhelmingly foreign to her, and set her back. It can certainly happen with cats that are extremely sensitive. I'm sure she will gradually become more like herself, but it will take time. I wouldn't expose her to anything unfamiliar if she were mine. SignatureWayne Boatwright __________________________________________________ Recent polls reveal that some people have never been polled. Until recently. --George Carlin Thank you so much all for the feedback you've given us regarding this issue, it has helped and I find the thread very interesting and informative. We plan to try and find a behaviourial specialist over here, if we can't find one, we'll still have a talk to the vet about her. We do not have any trouble with her, as she's never aggressive, but she's obiously not happy, and that's what matters. These extreme reactions must be exhausting for her. Thanks again! >Hi all. > [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > >Much appreciated for any feedback. I would suspect that somewhere along the line the cat was abused/mistreated by someone. I work with service cats as I've said before..and two of which go out in the community..and they were very nervous at first... I wasn't quite sure how to handle it...being new at taking cats away from home...one vet told me my cat wasn't in pain and it was obvious to me he was..and I was torn..so I decided to take a different approcach than I usually done..and I'm not talking T-Touch though that might be better than nothing....Have you ever heard of Reiki? I guess finding a good practioner is hard..mine is a lady name Dawn at Reiki Rays which is located in a store called The Scared Sword...not only did it calm hom down but it seemed to help him develope his conditon signalling. Granted he is under more stress than alot of cats, but it might help..and its a little bit more complicated the Tellington (T-touch) but you might try that too <smile> no I'm not a vet either...-Kenda > Hi all. > [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > > Much appreciated for any feedback. Susie is slowly coming back to us. She no longer sleeps with her paws under her body and her ears down, she now sleeps on the side and her ears are coming up for short periods of time. She's been out in the living room three times today, and said hello when we kneel down and reach our hand out to her. She's still not making any sounds, no purring or cooing, but I think she's on the mend. We praise her when she comes out of the bedroom, but not every time. She might want to go potty or go eat without being noticed sometimes too. We try to read her body language and see what she needs. She'll be alright again I'm sure, but it really is a shame that she can't come with us to the cabin..... Luckily we have relatives (male ones :) that can look after her when we're gone, but I still feel unconfortable with leaving her alone. After all, the babysitter can't stay with her all the time! It's good to se her fighting her way back to normaility though .) Actually I think she's very brave and strong to handle the panic like she is. I know people that can't deal with it as good as her.... |
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