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Cat Forum / General Topics / July 2007Would you leave food out for raccoons?
I have a cat but this is not about her, it is about a group of raccoons (one adult and five children). They have been spotted sniffing around our and our neighbors' yards and porchces this summer, mostly late nights. General consensus on the street is to have no food or food smells that will attract them, and I would certainly not want to leave a trash bag out that for them to rip apart and make a mess. However --- and having grown up in urban areas, I have no experience with raccoons --- part of me says they too are living creatures, hungry and looking for food, shouldn't I leave some out for them too? It bothers my heart that I am throwing food away they could have eaten. I do realize it is a pack of six, not one little cute pet. I also don't want any potential harm to my kids, my cat, my neighbor kids and cats. (There is a Black Lab next door who I am sure can look after himself!) So if you know raccoons, would you feed them in this situation? If so, when and where would you leave the food? >I have a cat but this is not about her, it is about a group of raccoons > (one adult and five children). They have been spotted sniffing around [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > and looking for food, shouldn't I leave some out for them too? It > bothers my heart that I am throwing food away they could have eaten. You most certainly SHOULD NOT feed raccoons or any other wild animal. They will become dependent on you and end up starving to death, getting hit by vehicles, or could spread rabies to neighborhood pets. >>I have a cat but this is not about her, it is about a group of raccoons >> (one adult and five children). They have been spotted sniffing around [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >will become dependent on you and end up starving to death, getting hit by >vehicles, or could spread rabies to neighborhood pets. On one of the Animal Cops show on Animal Planet a while back there was a segment about people that started feeding raccoons and before long their property was over run with them. They finally had to get someone to come in and trap them to remove them and relocate the ones that were in good health to a more remote area so they could go back to living life as raccoons should!!! Anwser is: NO!!!!!!!!!!! "Kiran" <kiran@no.email> wrote in message news > So if you know raccoons, would you feed them in this situation? If so, > when and where would you leave the food? Absolutely not. Believe me when I tell you that you'd be opening yourself, your family, your pets and your property up to a world of difficulty. Racoons can forage their own food quite well without your feeding them or encouraging them in any way to hang around. I've got to tell you Kiran, it's quite obvious that you're a compassionate animal person, but just the fact that you're considering feeding a family of wild racoons borders on the insane. > I have a cat but this is not about her, it is about a group of raccoons > (one adult and five children). They have been spotted sniffing around [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > So if you know raccoons, would you feed them in this situation? If so, > when and where would you leave the food? Not in an urban or suburban setting. If you lived in the country, I'd say yes. They're simply too close to people, which isn't a good thing for anything wild. -L. >> I have a cat but this is not about her, it is about a group of raccoons >> (one adult and five children). They have been spotted sniffing around [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >say yes. They're simply too close to people, which isn't a good thing >for anything wild. I know this is an old post, but I simply had to respond. NEVER, EVER feed raccoons regardless whether the setting urban or country! I know they are cute, but they are also a major pest when they become attached to your property. With their little hands they can open just about anything they set their minds to. I heard more than one story about people coming home to find a family of raccoons have moved in. In addition they can be very vicious, develop a territorial attitude which may lead to home invasion, and can carry rabies. But just as important, when you feed a wild animal, it loses its fear of humans and it needs that fear to survive long term. Always remember that the next human the raccoon sees may hate them and try to kill it. > I know this is an old post, but I simply had to respond. NEVER, EVER > feed raccoons regardless whether the setting urban or country! I know > they are cute, but they are also a major pest when they become > attached to your property. With their little hands they can open just > about anything they set their minds to. I heard more than one story > about people coming home to find a family of raccoons have moved in. So what? My Mom fed the coons and possums in her neighborhood from 1969-2001. Every day, every season. The neighborhood embraced the wildlife there and looked after it. > In addition they can be very vicious, Yeah, the coons my Mom fed were so vicious they ate right along with the cats - sometimes from the same bowls.... >develop a territorial attitude > which may lead to home invasion, and can carry rabies. Incidence of rabies in raccoons is relatively low. besides, I didn;t say pet them - I said feed them. > But just as important, when you feed a wild animal, it loses its fear > of humans and it needs that fear to survive long term. Always > remember that the next human the raccoon sees may hate them and try to > kill it. Like I said, it depends on where you live. If you are in a rural setting, it's probably less impactful to feed them. In an urban setting, I agree with you. -L. "-L." <gentleboa@peacemail.com> wrote in message > Incidence of rabies in raccoons is relatively low. besides, I didn;t > say pet them - I said feed them. Either you're not too bright or you're not very well informed. Which one is it? > "-L." <gentleboa@peacemail.com> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Either you're not too bright or you're not very well informed. Which one is > it? Raccoons are only responsible for 37% of the reported cases of animals having rabies. This has increased dramatically in the last 10 years. In 2001 (latest data) there were roughly 4700 cases of animal rabies and ZERO cases reported in humans. If you do not go outside when racoons are around and if your companion animals are vaccinated, your chances of contracting rabies is zero. -L. "-L." <gentleboa@peacemail.com> wrote in message > > > Incidence of rabies in raccoons is relatively low. besides, I didn;t > > > say pet them - I said feed them. > racoons are around and if your companion animals are vaccinated, your > chances of contracting rabies is zero. I wasn't replying in regards to rabies. I was replying in regards to feeding them. They're vicious, hard to get rid of, extremely destructive animals. I'd put them on part with rats and just as deserving to be eliminated, probably even more so because many people like you don't see them as any sort of serious threat. I've seen raccoons cause thousands of dollars of damage to houses, lower property values and be an enormous nuisance. We're not talking about pets here, we're talking about wild animals without any redeeming social value whatsoever when it comes to their interaction with humans. > I wasn't replying in regards to rabies. I was replying in regards to feeding > them. They're vicious, hard to get rid of, extremely destructive animals. Not in my experience. > I'd put them on part with rats and just as deserving to be eliminated, Well, there ya go. Just kill animals because you find them inconvient, eh? Ever hear of the concept of "living with nature"? > probably even more so because many people like you don't see them as any > sort of serious threat. They aren't a serious threat. The biggest threat to humans from raccoons are bites and rabies - neither of which you can get if you don't expose yourelf to them. > I've seen raccoons cause thousands of dollars of damage to houses, lower > property values and be an enormous nuisance. If that's the case, someone wasn't managing their property properly. >We're not talking about pets > here, we're talking about wild animals without any redeeming social value > whatsoever when it comes to their interaction with humans. Sez you. Another "humans can do whatever the f.ck they want with animals because we CAN!" self-righteous moron... -L. "-L." <gentleboa@peacemail.com> wrote in message > Not in my experience. Then you've had limited experience. Yeah, yeah, I know, your mom or someone you know used to feed them. > Well, there ya go. Just kill animals because you find them inconvenient, > eh? Ever hear of the concept of "living with nature"? In or on the outskirts of large cities, there's very little "living with nature." You want to blame a growing human presence, fine. Just know that you're not intelligent enough to "live with nature" and maintain your current existence with computers and cars and houses with electricity and all the other things our society currently enjoys. > They aren't a serious threat. The biggest threat to humans from > raccoons are bites and rabies - neither of which you can get if you > don't expose yourelf to them. If you're feeding them, then you're exposing yourself to them, period. You can't just feed a couple of racoons and then expect them to move on. They stay and destroy to get the food that they want. In addition, feeding them causes them to lose their fear of humanity and then it's even harder to deal with them. > If that's the case, someone wasn't managing their property properly. If a family of raccoons starts hanging around your house because you fed them, how *exactly* would you manage your property? I know, you'd pay several hundred dollars to buy traps or have someone else catch them and then move them. At that point, they would go out and find another house to terrorize. All you'd be doing is transferring your irresponsibility to some other unfortunate person or family. > Sez you. Another "humans can do whatever the f.ck they want with > animals because we CAN!" self-righteous moron... Well, you answered my initial questions very well. You lack valid knowledge *AND* you're too stupid to know any better when it comes to racoons. Trouble with leaving food out for wild animals is that you might end up with feeding rats. > "-L." <gentleboa@peacemail.com> wrote in message > > > > Not in my experience. > > Then you've had limited experience. Yeah, yeah, I know, your mom or someone > you know used to feed them. Yeah, only 18 years living in the country with them, feeding them daily. Fuckoff, a.shole Go find some defenseless animals to kill.. -L. "-L." <gentleboa@peacemail.com> wrote in message I fully realize that you have the maturity and intelligence of a 6 year old, but at least make a token effort to understand. Not *once* did I say to kill them. I said not to feed them because then you can't get rid of them. > Fuckoff, a.shole Go find some defenseless animals to kill.. Expected response for a lack of rebuttal. Guess you made your point eh? Now that you've shown everybody what a joke you are, what are you going to do for an encore? <snicker> > "-L." <gentleboa@peacemail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > <snicker> Lee "L" is an a.shole, but advocating the killing of raccoons is abhorable. Both of you should get a life. >> "-L." <gentleboa@peacemail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Lee "L" is an a.shole, but advocating the killing of raccoons is > abhorable. Both of you should get a life. That's twice I've seen you call "-L." by the name "Lee". I do believe *her* name is Lynn (one of her other usernames is usenetlynn). > That's twice I've seen you call "-L." by the name "Lee". I do believe *her* > name is Lynn (one of her other usernames is usenetlynn). You're both wrong. Let the man keep proving the the world how stupid he is. -L. >"-L." <gentleboa@peacemail.com> wrote in message >> > > Incidence of rabies in raccoons is relatively low. besides, I didn;t [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >here, we're talking about wild animals without any redeeming social value >whatsoever when it comes to their interaction with humans. I've had one Rat, a fancy white and black one that one of my male cats carried home. I think he thought it was a kitten because of the markings. He lived with us for a year and a half (they have a normal lifespan of three years) and was one of the most gentle creatures I have ever seen. He didn;t mind being held, groomed, or bathed and kept his cage immaculate. He was also very very smart. If you do a Google search on fancy rats you'll get almost a half million hits. Bear in mind that I understand that fancy rats and wild rats are different but only so different as domestic cats and feral cats, And the only feral cat I've had took about 15 minutes to decide that she wanted to be an indoor cat and has never looked back. She sleeps in the kitchen so she can keep an eye on the food cabinet. My only point is that rats can be fine animals and shouldn't be generally condemned. So, don't go bad mouthing rats which you apparently know nothing about. >>"-L." <gentleboa@peacemail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Raccoons are only responsible for 37% of the reported cases of animals > having rabies. Only 37% - no need to worry. Hey, if the people who worked at the day-care center where you dropped your kids off everyday were only found to consist of 37% child molesters, would you have any reason to worry? > This has increased dramatically in the last 10 years. > In 2001 (latest data) there were roughly 4700 cases of animal rabies [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -L. > >>"-L." <gentle...@peacemail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Most cats will allow a raccoon to come right up to their food bowl and feed with them. For some reason, these two creatures seem to tolerate the other's presence pretty well. Then along comes the rabid racoon. The cat will allow him to approach just like any other. But all it takes is one sneeze into the face of your cat (who's feeding on the other side of the bowl) and it could contract the disease. We know because many years ago, my brother-in-law (who's family lived next door at the time) had this happen. His cat ended up having it's brain sliced up and examined under a microscope because it when nuts. It started secluding itself off in a quiet room, biting itself on the back... snarling, chattering and fighting at the empty air (and then it scratched somebody). That very week, they caught and killed a rabid racoon the next block over. And we had all seen our cats and the coons eating together in the early morning hours off and on during this time. But we never thought anything of it. The county vet was the one who informed them on how all this could happen without an actual bite. Bottom line... Don't leave your outside cat's food where foragers like raccoons can get to it. Give them measured portions and clean up the leftovers before dusk falls. That's my advice. Take it or you might be sorry! IBen Getiner acoons are cute but they also will tear your roof apart when they want to move into the attic. They will spread dieases and may well be a danger to outside animals. I live in the country and while I do not wish to harm them I will spray them with water, hit them with dog spray (pepper spray) and shoot their butts with a pellet gun. If this does not work then I will shoot them, Thank God I have only had to KILL one in the last 5 years. I feed stray cats here and I will protect them Darryl > acoons are cute but they also will tear your roof apart when they want to > move [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Darryl The answer to all of your questions lies in the movie "Over the Hedge" This is a true documentary of wildlife v/s urban sprawl. Rent it or go see it today. Trust me you will be informed Marvel OK, Ryan, Upscale, L - I get the idea... I am soft by heart. As a child growing up in a small town in India I used to leave some food on the roof for monkeys! Today I feed cats, birds, squirrels, and sea gulls when I can walk to the water. I once convinced my next-door neighbor who insisted on feeding her cat cheap kibble, to let me feed her canned food once a day. In this case, I was softened up after reading the following sory (very touching to me): http://parsifal.membrane.com/alex/higginsjournal1.html (this is part 1 of 8, but you can skim through quite fast) But I can see it probably was a nutty idea in my urban setting. It is just that the baby coons looked and acted so much like the cats I love. It broke my heart to see them desperately sniffing for food from yard to yard, while all of us and my cat had not only eaten but left food on the plate and I had just thrown it in the trash bag which I closed tightly as well as the trash bin so they wouldn't know it was there. Something seemed not right. But I am small, the world is big, and even if it is not right I can't always set everything right. So I have chosen to feed microbes, whom I cannot trick or stop, instead of baby raccoons, whom I can... Thank you all and good night. > OK, Ryan, Upscale, L - I get the idea... > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Thank you all and good night. Dude, you are talking to the biggest heart and sap when it comes to animals of any sort! I had a baby raccoon as a pet growing up - they are the cutest animals on Earth, I swear! But feeding them in an urban setting gets them used to human food and used to humans, which isn't good. Best to leave it up to nature to supply them with their meals. Good luck to you, -L. > OK, Ryan, Upscale, L - I get the idea... > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Thank you all and good night.|>>> I understand how you feel, I would be truly tempted to do the same. I love racoons but we don't have wild ones over here. But as everyone else has said, its not a good idea in the long term for them or for you. I saw a wildlife programme about racoons and it was interesting that urban racoons are smaller and more wily than country ones. If they are trapped and released in the country many do not adapt and don't survive :( Alison > So if you know raccoons, would you feed them in this situation? If so, > when and where would you leave the food? In many municipalities it is illegal to feed raccoons- Miami-Dade has a terrible problem with them. They turn into determined pests and are health risks.  SignatureToni http://www.cearbhaill.com/rules.htm >I have a cat but this is not about her, it is about a group of raccoons > (one adult and five children). They have been spotted sniffing around [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > So if you know raccoons, would you feed them in this situation? If so, > when and where would you leave the food? Kiran, In addition to rabies, raccoons can also carry raccoon roundworms (Baylisascaris procyonis). They pass the eggs in their feces and it has been fatal in several children. It can damage the brain. http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12150_12220-27261--,00.html The raccoons are also a pain in the rear once they start knocking over your garbage cans in the middle of the night!! I love 'em, but not when my 55 lb dog is sitting on my chest in the middle of the night barking her head off at them! Bonnie > Kiran, > In addition to rabies, raccoons can also carry raccoon [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Bonnie And in addition to rabies and worms, there's FPLV and CPV-2 to worry about, and other mutations of the parvovirus. Keep the 'coons away. SignatureCheryl In Florida raccoons are the biggest carriers of the rabies virus we are always have outbreak alerts Thank you all once again, I could hardly miss the complete, total, unanimous agreement on this point! For me just one more example of how precious this community is. > I have a cat but this is not about her, it is about a group of raccoons > (one adult and five children). They have been spotted sniffing around [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > So if you know raccoons, would you feed them in this situation? If so, > when and where would you leave the food? The answer is absolutely not. We have raccoons where I live also. We used to leave food out for the cats until the raccoons started eating it all at night. Now we only leave cat food out during the daytime.....never at night. The raccoon's were starting to get more agressive, in that they started coming during the day. But the bluebird's started dive-bombing them! So they don't show up any more during the day. Besides raccoon's, we also have skunk's who like to eat cat food. Unlike the raccoon's, no one messes with the skunk's.....not people, not cat's not dog's, not even the bluebird's. The skunk's just walk around the property as if they didn't have a care in the world. It's kinda' scary though when it's dark out and you think one of the local cat's are coming up to you.....but it's a skunk! Skunk's have poor eyesight, especially at night, so they don't really see you..... and you defintely don't want to spook a skunk. Also besides all the other things that previous posters have mentioned, cat food is not good for raccoon's or skunk's anyway. >> I have a cat but this is not about her, it is about a group of >> raccoons (one adult and five children). They have been spotted [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > mentioned, cat food > is not good for raccoon's or skunk's anyway. Looks like it's time for you to get a Great Horned Owl for your neighborhood. One of their favorite foods is skunk, and they have no sense of smell!!!! > Looks like it's time for you to get a Great Horned Owl for your > neighborhood. One of their favorite foods is skunk, and they have no > sense of smell!!!! Oh that sounds promising.. !!! One near miss from an owl attack and the skunk unloads on your property while the owl gets away oblivious to what it's done. > > Looks like it's time for you to get a Great Horned Owl for your > > neighborhood. One of their favorite foods is skunk, and they have no > > sense of smell!!!! > Oh that sounds promising.. !!! One near miss from an owl attack and the > skunk unloads on your property while the owl gets away oblivious to what > it's done. Just blow the skunk away, Rob, like you really want to do. >> Oh that sounds promising.. !!! One near miss from an owl attack and the >> skunk unloads on your property while the owl gets away oblivious to what >> it's done. > Just blow the skunk away, Rob, like you really want to do. Sure thing sweetie.... Just walk across that patio and hold still when the little red light comes on, mmmkay? > >> Oh that sounds promising.. !!! One near miss from an owl attack and the > >> skunk unloads on your property while the owl gets away oblivious to what [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Sure thing sweetie.... Just walk across that patio and hold still when the > little red light comes on, mmmkay? hahaha! Not bad. Not bad at all. :) >> >> Oh that sounds promising.. !!! One near miss from an owl attack and >> >> the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > hahaha! Not bad. Not bad at all. :) I was hoping that you could see more humor (as intended) than venom in the reply. Someone mentioned cat food not good for raccoons. We had the coon problem a year ago. They got into our attic thru the chimney. We had hired the wildlife control man to trap them (and set them free far into the country). He baited them with catfood! Also, had possums...no skunks yet..thank goodness! I no longer leave food out at night for the stray cats. If they dont come by dark to eat, then they have to wait til morning. SignatureWhere will you spend eternity? In the Smoking or Non-Smoking Section? >>> I have a cat but this is not about her, it is about a group of >>> raccoons (one adult and five children). They have been spotted [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > neighborhood. One of their favorite foods is skunk, and they have no > sense of smell!!!! > Someone mentioned cat food not good for raccoons. We had the coon problem a > year ago. They got into our attic thru the chimney. We had hired the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >> mentioned, cat food > >> is not good for raccoon's or skunk's anyway. Yes Barb, raccoon's absolutely love cat food, but it's not good for them if they eat it on a daily basis, and especially not good if it's their main diet. It's like baiting a kid with a twinkie. But if the kid eat's nothing but Twinkies, the kid won't have a long life. SignatureWhere will you spend eternity? In the Smoking or Non-Smoking Section? >> Someone mentioned cat food not good for raccoons. We had the coon problem >> a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > but Twinkies, > the kid won't have a long life. Yes, and just like kids, they dont know that either ;-) >I have a cat but this is not about her, it is about a group of raccoons > (one adult and five children). They have been spotted sniffing around [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > So if you know raccoons, would you feed them in this situation? If so, > when and where would you leave the food? Raccoons are quite adapted to foraging for their own food and it's usually recommended not to feed them. Adam > So if you know raccoons, would you feed them in this situation? If so, > when and where would you leave the food? Human food is bad for their teeth and health (someone did a study on this). They're wild animals. They will manage on their own. SignatureWeb site: http://www.slywy.com/ Message board: http://www.slywy.com/phpBB2/ Journal: http://slywy.blogspot.com/ > I have a cat but this is not about her, it is about a group of raccoons > (one adult and five children). They have been spotted sniffing around [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > So if you know raccoons, would you feed them in this situation? If so, > when and where would you leave the food? NO - not only no, but HELL NO. Raccoons are cute, but they are not cuddly. They are vicious and ferocious and can do just fine without your leaving your table scraps on your back porch. And that black lab next door? Well, the coon probably won't kill it, but it could seriously scratch him up. BTW - my only experience with these beautiful creatures is in urban areas. I've lived in 2 houses in big cities (thousands of miles apart) where they took up residence in the attic. They're opportunists. One big problem with leaving food out for animals is you will attract the kinds of animals you don't want. Open your back door in the evening and see dozens of roaches scurrying away that were eating the food you left out for the pretty songbirds and you'll understand. >> I have a cat but this is not about her, it is about a group of raccoons >> (one adult and five children). They have been spotted sniffing around [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > away that were eating the food you left out for the pretty songbirds and > you'll understand. Well, I'm sorry to have to give the other side of this story, but it is a part of my experience, so here goes: We live on the outskirts of town, with a Christmas tree farm behind us, so we get lots of wild animals sniffing at our back porch.....We also have 4 outside cats, one of which is a feral male. We feed raccoons, squirrels and an occasional Possum, as well as many birds. The raccoons get dog kibbles, and because our area is plentiful, they only eat them in the Winter, and when they can't find anything else to eat. Although raccoons will kill cats, these leave our cats alone, and the cats leave them alone too. I think they will only kill if there is competition for space or food, and neither is the case with ours. One of our cats, Meggie, even plays with the young raccoons under their mothers watchful eye.....I have seen both raccoons and squirrels run over her while she is sleeping on the back porch under the sun. The possum is strictly nocturnal, and runs at the slightest sound, so he/she is no fun at all....The raccoons are very cute, and as long as they don't fight with my cats, they are welcome. We have been feeding them for over 5 years now, and there are less of them now than there were two or three years ago. (they are sick of dog kibbles, which we buy for 50 lbs for under 10 dollars) I think that everyone's situation is different, and my wife can't stand to see any animal go hungry, so she is going to feed what ever it is, no matter what. She even fed a family of rats for a while, but the cats wouldn't put up with that, and they eventually killed them all off. > >> I have a cat but this is not about her, it is about a group of raccoons > >> (one adult and five children). They have been spotted sniffing around [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > matter what. She even fed a family of rats for a while, but the cats > wouldn't put up with that, and they eventually killed them all off. I think you have an intelligent attitude to life. Thank you for your story, which I enjoyed. s. > I think that everyone's situation is different, and my wife can't stand >to see any animal go hungry, so she is going to feed what ever it is, no >matter what. She even fed a family of rats for a while, but the cats >wouldn't put up with that, and they eventually killed them all off. Having had raccoons kill my magnificent 28 lb. ginger tom when I was a teenager some 30 years there is absolutely no way in hell I can approach this with a calm manner. I was off as a summer camp counsellor when this happened and one of the first things I had to do when I got home was pay the vet bill from the unsuccessful attempt to save him. I'm with the 'not only no but HELL NO!' people I'm afraid. >> I think that everyone's situation is different, and my wife can't stand >> to see any animal go hungry, so she is going to feed what ever it is, no [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I'm with the 'not only no but HELL NO!' people I'm afraid. No, nature takes care of itself... and raccoons are definitely not pets. >>> I think that everyone's situation is different, and my wife can't >>> stand to see any animal go hungry, so she is going to feed what ever it [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > No, nature takes care of itself... and raccoons are definitely not pets. Pets are whatever you make pets.....Cats didn't start out as pets either....Somewhere, at some time, someone first turned a cat into a pet. I have known of cats that have been killed by raccoons. But our cats are outside cats, and we live on the edge of town where there are plenty of wild animals. At any time, one of our cats may disappear, never to be seen again, and we won't know what happened to him or her. There is no way I can control this, unless I remove the cat doors and force all my cats to spend the rest of their lives indoors. - I refuse to do that, so I (and they) will just have to take our chances. Life is not a guaranteed condition. Anyone, at any time, could drop dead from a whole variety of different things. If you are unhappy with that (as I am) then I suggest you blame the one responsible. (God) Unless, like me, you believe in no God, and consequently have no one to blame at all. In the meantime, I will feed whatever happens to be hungry who shows up at my door asking for a handout....After all, I was not the one who created this veil of tears, so don't blame me for trying to make it a little better. > Pets are whatever you make pets.....Cats didn't start out as pets > either....Somewhere, at some time, someone first turned a cat into a pet. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > handout....After all, I was not the one who created this veil of tears, so > don't blame me for trying to make it a little better. I blame you for being an a.shole. Your cats are domesticated animals that should not be put at risk in this way, e.g., exposed to wild animals that may be predators. People like you should not have cats. > Pets are whatever you make pets.....Cats didn't start out as pets > either....Somewhere, at some time, someone first turned a cat into a pet. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > handout....After all, I was not the one who created this veil of tears, so > don't blame me for trying to make it a little better. You could also be jeopardizing the lives of children living around you--raccoons carry other diseases besides rabies, some of which are zoonotic and have caused very serious disease including raccoon roundworms. It's a horrible disease, attacking the eyes and brain. Several children have died from this, including a small girl in Monterey area in California. Raccoons tend to defecate in middens and can shed a tremendous number of eggs. The eggs are tough and can remain in the environment for a long time. By feeding them, you are going to have more raccoons and consequently more raccoon feces. As much as I think they're cute, feeding them is a very bad idea. Several references: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1 1971766&dopt=Abstract http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baylisascaris http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/baylisascaris/factsht_baylisascaris.htm > >> I have a cat but this is not about her, it is about a group of raccoons > >> (one adult and five children). They have been spotted sniffing around [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > matter what. She even fed a family of rats for a while, but the cats > wouldn't put up with that, and they eventually killed them all off.- Hide quoted text - Well, yeah, I feed everything too. But the cats don't go out unless I'm out, and never late, which is when the raccoons/bunnies/armadillos come out. I've heard people tell that they've seen 'coons and cats eating out of the same dish. No way would I trust one. They're a wild animal, and they have claws, wicked teeth, and outweigh a cat by far. Personally, I like raccoons. They look like little hoodlums running around in the yard at night. But I'd *never* expose the cats to one. Sherry > Well, yeah, I feed everything too. But the cats don't go out unless > I'm out, and never late, which is when the raccoons/bunnies/armadillos [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Personally, I like raccoons. They look like little hoodlums running > around in the yard at night. But I'd *never* expose the cats to one. Feeding wildlife eventually gets that wildlife killed. When they rely on humans for food they become nuicances and worse, and that will eventually lead to the extermination of them and/or their offspring. So if you think racoons and other wild animals are cute, stop feeding them. SignatureLynne >> Well, yeah, I feed everything too. But the cats don't go out unless >> I'm out, and never late, which is when the raccoons/bunnies/armadillos [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >lead to the extermination of them and/or their offspring. So if you think >racoons and other wild animals are cute, stop feeding them. There was a family of raccoons that used to visit at a place where I used to live. They were pretty tame for wild critters. One evening I fell asleep on the couch in front of the TV and woke up with 4 in the living room because I'd left the front door open. When I mentioned to them that they would probably be better off outside they calmly lined up and marched out the door with no problems. OTOH, in another part of the country a friend of mine had an episode with an apparantly tame raccoon that ended with her and a couple of her kids having to undergo postexposure rabies prophylaxis. Not fun. Not cute. As always, YMMV. >>Well, yeah, I feed everything too. But the cats don't go out unless >>I'm out, and never late, which is when the raccoons/bunnies/armadillos [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > lead to the extermination of them and/or their offspring. So if you think > racoons and other wild animals are cute, stop feeding them. Agreed - the worst story I've heard was when I visited the Grand Canyon - and I'm sure this is not common and was meant to emphasize that people should not feed animals, but anyway, here it goes. People fed the cute little deers. Deers become accustom to human food. They raid trash cans and in the process, chow down on potato chip bags - that is the bags, not the potato chips in them. So, deer eats trash. Trash blocks intestines. The deer basically starve to death, despite eating as much as they can - it cannot be digested. Despite the warnings, I saw people feeding animals there. What's even more horrific (since people feeding animals probably didn't mean any harm) was all the trash that some people apparently thought was okay to discard where they stood. > People fed the cute little deers. Deers become accustom to human food. > They raid trash cans and in the process, chow down on potato chip bags > - that is the bags, not the potato chips in them. Actually, I think a hungry animal will raid a trash can whether they've ever been fed human food or not. Rhonda > Actually, I think a hungry animal will raid a trash can whether they've > ever been fed human food or not. Which is why unintentional feeding is just as bad as intentional feeding. People need to secure their trash cans from wildlife. SignatureLynne >> Actually, I think a hungry animal will raid a trash can whether they've >> ever been fed human food or not. > > Which is why unintentional feeding is just as bad as intentional feeding. > People need to secure their trash cans from wildlife. There is a neighbor way up in northern Quebec that feeds birds year round. Normally in the winter ALL the birds leave the area because it is much too cold for them to be hanging around, but when they have this source of food they tend to hang around. When the lady goes to Florida for 3 weeks in the midst of the winter, I'm sure the birds are left in a bit of a quandary... head south or wait for more food? Feeding them like this screws them up in many ways. > >> Actually, I think a hungry animal will raid a trash can whether they've > >> ever been fed human food or not. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Feeding them like this screws them up in many ways. I'm sure it's because our climates are so different, but our birds totally diss us from spring until the first freeze. Even if we put food out, they don't touch it. We always just put the feeders away for the season. Last year I planted a row of sunflowers just for fun, and the birds were all over them as soon as the seed pods formed. Guess they like the fresh stuff better. Sherry >>> Actually, I think a hungry animal will raid a trash can whether >>> they've ever been fed human food or not. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > too cold for them to be hanging around, but when they have this source > of food they tend to hang around. I've only lived here in Colorado for 2 years, but the first year, it was a mild winter and the ponds near the office did not completely freeze over. This year, they did - we nearly broke a record for snow on the ground. So there was no grass for them to munch on and no water for them to fish in - End result - lots less geese and lots less geese poop all over the place. And I thought pigeons were bad. > When the lady goes to Florida for 3 weeks in the midst of the winter, > I'm sure the birds are left in a bit of a quandary... head south or wait > for more food? > > Feeding them like this screws them up in many ways. >> People fed the cute little deers. Deers become accustom to human >> food. They raid trash cans and in the process, chow down on potato >> chip bags - that is the bags, not the potato chips in them. > > Actually, I think a hungry animal will raid a trash can whether they've > ever been fed human food or not. To an extent that's true, but if the animals retain their natural fear of humans, they're unlikely to raid trash cans in the first place. > Rhonda >>> People fed the cute little deers. Deers become accustom to human food. >>> They raid trash cans and in the process, chow down on potato chip bags - [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >> Rhonda Unfortunately, as we humans eat up more and more of their natural habitat, they are driven to overcome their, "natural fear" and live closer and closer to us....Witness the coyote that wandered into a New York fast food joint the other day....(A Quisnos, I think) If he was hungry enough, then what did he have to lose? >>>> People fed the cute little deers. Deers become accustom to human food. >>>> They raid trash cans and in the process, chow down on potato chip [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > joint the other day....(A Quisnos, I think) If he was hungry enough, then > what did he have to lose? If I had been there, I would have ordered him a foot long roast beef, and told them to hold the onions.....:^) > > Well, yeah, I feed everything too. But the cats don't go out unless > > I'm out, and never late, which is when the raccoons/bunnies/armadillos [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > -- > Lynne Look, I try to keep in mindthat the written word comes across with no facial expression, no tone, and it easy to misunderstand the emotion behind a post. You seem friendly enough most of the time, but because your post struck me as a little preachy, I'd like to clarify that I'm not an idiot, and my situation/environment is probably a little different than most. I live in the middle of a 100-acre farm, which is unused agriculturally since I got it. I sometimes keep a "critter block" in the back yard (back yard=about 75 yards from the back door), along with bird feeders. Near the pond is a mineral block for the deer, and hen scratch for the wild turkeys and quail in the winter. There is a massive dewberry thicket there, and a brush pile, where cottontails live. Wildlife rehabilitation has always been an interest for me. I've helped with the animals brought in to the humane society, have raised orphaned and injured animals, under the supervision of a licensed wildlife rehabilitator. I enjoy watching wildlife, but yes, I know they aren't pets and are meant to be watched, not touched. I have no children, no neighbors, no traffic. Sorry for the long explanation, but I didn't want to the close with the impression that I''m throwing stale Twinkies on the back porch in the middle of an urban neighborhood. :-) Sherry I will feed any and all critters that come around during the winter but then when warmer weather comes where the snow and ice let up then I wean them back to fending for themselves. I have been doing so forever it seems and most likely will continue until I am no longer able to and I see nothing wrong with it. ***************************************************** E-mail address altered to foil spam. Reply to news groups for all to see please. _ / ) (\__/) ( ( ) ( ) ) ={ }= / / ) `-------/ / ( / \ | ,'\ , ,' `-'\ ,---\ | \ _) ) `. \ / (__/ ) ) (_/ (\__/) )oo( ={ >}= ***************************************************** > I will feed any and all critters that come around during the winter > but then when warmer weather comes where the snow and ice let up then > I wean them back to fending for themselves. I have been doing so > forever it seems and most likely will continue until I am no longer > able to and I see nothing wrong with it. During Springtime around here, (which is now) the food I leave out for the raccoons goes untouched....There is so much other stuff for them to eat that they won't touch the crummy dog kibbles. In general, they will only eat them in the dead of Winter, and even then, only as a last resort. When the choice is to starve or eat the kibbles, they will reluctantly eat the kibbles.......I also leave out a bucket of water during the dry season......No animal on my property will ever die of either hunger or thirst....... >> > Well, yeah, I feed everything too. But the cats don't go out unless >> > I'm out, and never late, which is when the raccoons/bunnies/armadillos [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Sherry We each live under different circumstances. What I do reflects my particular circumstances and my general experience....I don't expect others to do the same as I do, but, since the question was asked, I simply told my story. "In general" applies to some statistical norm, and the information might be very useful, but I don't live according to some statistical norm. If my behavior differs from the norm, it is because I am in a situation that differs from the norm. I would expect everyone else to adjust their behavior according to whatever their particular circumstances dictate....... > Look, I try to keep in mindthat the written word comes across with no > facial expression, no tone, and it easy to misunderstand the emotion > behind a post. You seem friendly enough most of the time, but because > your post struck me as a little preachy, I'd like to clarify that I'm > not an idiot, and my situation/environment is probably a little > different than most. My post wasn't neccessarily directed at you, but at people in general who don't understand the bigger problem of feeding wildlife and discouraging them from their natural fear of humans. It ultimately leads to wildlife being killed all too often (for example, bears in Yosemite), and that pisses me off royally. SignatureLynne X-No-Archive: > > Look, I try to keep in mindthat the written word comes across with no > > facial expression, no tone, and it easy to misunderstand the emotion [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > being killed all too often (for example, bears in Yosemite), and that > pisses me off royally. Do not feed the raccoons. I had been putting food out for stray cats. I won't be doing that anymore as I have been accused of "animal cruelty" for trying to find a way to deal with the large numbers of stray cats in my rural area--this is just background, i.e. I'm venting. The cats like to come by at night, but at night the raccoons and opossums eat _all_ the cat food that I put out. So I decided to just put cat food out during the day and early evening. Raccoons are "cute", but they are ravenous and will get into any food they can find--they can figure out latches. They will dig up the lawn under your bird feeder. They will, if they can reach the bird feeder and pull it down, break it open for the bird feed. I have shot a few raccoons (I'm not exactly proud of this) over the past 1-1/2 years since the raccoons started coming during the late evening or even during the day. Just when I thought I had gotten rid of all the coons in my area, several more come along to replace them. I nearly shot a mother coon until I saw the 5 or 6 quite small coons following her--my cruelty has limits. I no longer bother shooting the raccoons since all the strays I'd been feeding are gone by: getting shot as pests, starved or froze to death--last winter which was brutal in my area, were taken by predators, or moved on ( I prefer to think this). I kept putting food out all winter for them but they stopped coming when the weather turned very cold and the snow was deep in early to mid-January. Raccoons and opossums are not a problem in the colder part of winter since they hibernate, or something close to it. Aside from being destructive, I've been warned not to try to chase them off or kick one. They will turn on you, latch onto your leg and they don't let go. They can carry rabies, and if you see one around during the day (not at all normal behavior) there is a fair chance that that raccoon is rabid. If you have to shoot or club to death (people have had to do this) a suspected rabid raccoon, call the state police or Dept. of Environmental Conservation for cleanup. If you must club the raccoon to death in self-defense, you are exposing yourself to the raccoons bodily fluids blood, saliva, etc. Any animal (or person) not vaccinated that is exposed to the raccoon or it's blood is at risk of contracting rabies, so the raccoon must be tested and the carcass properly disposed of. Burning the carcass is not sufficient, I'm told. Rabies is almost always fatal. It must be treated as soon as possible if the raccoon tests positive or can't be found. Nature is often cruel, MM > X-No-Archive: > [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > Nature is often cruel, > MM On the other hand..... I feed the raccoons that come up on my rear deck. I feed them dog food, and always the cheapest brand (37-1/2 lb. bags of "Maintain") They don't particularly like it, but if they are faced with starvation, then they will eat it. And that's good, because I don't like to encourage them to eat at my place. The raccoons and my cats have come to an understanding. It consists mostly of not paying any attention to one another. Although my sweetest cat, Meggie, will play with the baby raccoons under their mama's watchful eye. Our coons are not rabid....The state keeps watch on that, and issues warnings when a rabies epidemic infests a population. They dart and test the coon population randomly all year long. The only thing I have to worry about is when large rogue males come to eat. This happens rarely, and my cats (I have 4 cats) are all too smart to mess with them when it does. But my cats are outside cats, and they face many hazards that inside cats don't have to worry about. Raccoons are just one of those hazards. I believe their freedom is worth the risk, and I treat them accordingly. Since the cats and raccoons don't have to compete for food, they seem to get along remarkably well. We also feed squirrels, birds, and an occasional 'possum.... William Graham wrote on 05/07/2007 : >> X-No-Archive: >> [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] > don't have to compete for food, they seem to get along remarkably well. We > also feed squirrels, birds, and an occasional 'possum.... My wife used to put out food for the foxes. This was in London which some people may find surprising but apparently there are many in most big cities. I don't know if it is the same in America ? Anyway it just encourages them to scavenge more and they would sit out on our front wall. The night before the refuse collection they would rip the refuse bags to shreds. SignatureCount Baldoni > William Graham wrote on 05/07/2007 : >>> X-No-Archive: [quoted text clipped - 115 lines] > our front wall. The night before the refuse collection they would rip the > refuse bags to shreds. I haven't seen any foxes around where I am living now, but there used to be a couple of families of them in the hills behind Stanford University where I worked before I retired. I doubt if anyone fed them. If a fox come up on my rear deck, they could eat the raccoon food, and I couldn't (and wouldn't) do anything to stop it....I'll feed anything that is hungry enough to take the risk. The only rules I have is that they don't kill each other. (especially the cats) And, they all seem to understand that....So far, at least. > The only rules I have is that they don't kill each other. (especially >the cats) And, they all seem to understand that....So far, at least. I just had an encounter with a coon a few minutes ago. I leave the back door to the mud room open for a while each evening in good weather so Spooky can go out for a while and get back in (he's too old and feeble to be able to manage the leap to the cat flap platform) and when I went to close it after my late supper (it was still light out) there was a coon on the top step with his head inside. He vanished immediately, unlike the one a week ago Sunday when I forgot to close the door until 11 PM - that one was munching away on the cats' food, and when I appeared, instead of running outside, he ran into a corner under the utility sink. I had thrown my back out and was in no mood to get out my capture pole and drag him out, so I just waited quietly in the kitchen. Instead of going out or resuming feeding, he climbed up the window shelves. I opened the window between the kitchen and mud room and zapped him with a slingshot and a paint ball (a paint ball might make a mess if it hit the large and expensive window, but it wouldn't break it. The coon then climbed on top of the open door. I hit him again - no effect (the paint balls didn't break - they just bounced off). So, I went to the open kitchen door, took careful aim and *SPLAT* - right between the eyes. That was one red faced coon, and he decided he really didn't belong there. He climbed down, creeped around the edge of the door and took off like his tail was on fire. Might have been the same one as tonight, but a popular game trail runs from the woods on the west past my back door to the field and pond to the east, so it might not have been the same one. SignatureT.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu) Remove "gearbox.maem" to get real address - that one is dead >> The only rules I have is that they don't kill each other. (especially >>the cats) And, they all seem to understand that....So far, at least. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > to the field and pond to the east, so it might not have been the same > one. Coons are territorial, so the ones I have are the normal residents of the area. They have become used to me and my, "rules" so they get along pretty well.....If I don't leave out enough kibbles for them, they will come to our bedroom cat door in the middle of the night and scratch at the flap and wake us up. Then I get up and feed them. The other night one kept scratching at the door even though there were plenty of kibbles....I finally figured out that he was thirsty....(It hadn't rained here for over a week)....So I put out a pan of water, and he was happy.....:^) >Do not feed the raccoons. I had been putting food out for stray cats. I won't be >doing that anymore as I have been accused of "animal cruelty" for trying to find >a way to deal with the large numbers of stray cats in my rural area--this is >just background, i.e. I'm venting. There is a solution that allows you to feed the cats but not the vermin: a feeding platform on an unclimbable support between a yard and a meter from the nearest point the vermin can get to. This is based on the fact that cats (most of them) can leap but coons and possums can't. I found an example on the Web, but I can't find it now. I used that concept to construct a possum and coon proof cat flap. SignatureT.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu) Remove "gearbox.maem." from address - that one is dead >>Do not feed the raccoons. I had been putting food out for stray cats. I >>won't be [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > I used that concept to construct a possum and coon proof cat flap. A good idea.....I don't feed many stray cats.....The ones I do feed are all smart enough to use my cat doors to come inside. The raccoons won't do that because my cats won't let them in the house, and because the cat doors are the smallest I can buy....Even the cats can barely squeeze through them. The dog food that I leave out for the coons is unpalatable to the cats. The secret is not giving the coons anything that they can learn to like too much. They will only eat the dog kibbles as a last resort, and they have to intrude on the cat's territory in order to do that.........When I first started this (about 5 years ago) the coon population built up rapidly....At one time there were about 20 or more raccoons eating the dog kibbles....I was on the verge of calling animal control and having them trapped and taken away. (They bring them way out in the woods somewhere and let them go) but then, I noticed the population dropping....Over a period of about a year, it dropped all the way down to only about 5 or 6 coons a week eating.....Today it is even less than that. It's because no creature can eat "Maintain" kibbles (About $9.00 for a 37-1/2 lb. bag) for very long without throwing up....:^) >>>I have a cat but this is not about her, it is about a group of raccoons >>>(one adult and five children). They have been spotted sniffing around [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > Well, I'm sorry to have to give the other side of this story, but it is a > part of my experience, so here goes: After reading your "other side of this story", I don't get why you say you're "sorry" or what the point is. So you have not had bad experiences feeding the animals in your part of the woods - okay. I still stand by my assertion that you should not do so. Look, you can wander across busy intersections for 20 years and not get hit by a car, but that doesn't make it a good idea. > We live on the outskirts of town, with a Christmas tree farm behind us, > so we get lots of wild animals sniffing at our back porch.....We also have 4 [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > matter what. She even fed a family of rats for a while, but the cats > wouldn't put up with that, and they eventually killed them all off. |
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