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Cat Forum / General Topics / February 2006Herpes in Cat's Eye Question
Pardon if this is a stupid question (also pardon, but this is crossposted for the most coverage - I really need info on this), but..... How contagious is herpes in a cat's eye? What degree of contact would it take to pass this from one cat to another? Is this virus the same as or related to the human herpes virus (or the Epstein-Barr virus*)? Is it possible to transfer this from cat to human or human to cat? Manifestations of the Epstein-Barr virus in humans are: Chicken Pox, Mononucleosis, Shingles, Cold Sores, Genital Herpes (have I missed any?).  SignatureHugs, CatNipped See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ > Pardon if this is a stupid question (also pardon, but this is crossposted > for the most coverage - I really need info on this), but..... [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > CatNipped I can only offer this anecdotal evidence, but Boots has herpes that manifests itself from time to time with sneezing and eye infections. None of the other cats has it, or any symptoms, ever. But I do hear that it runs rampant in shelters, so it would stand to reason it must be contagious. I do know that L-Lysine definitely helps her NOT have outbreaks. I don't think Epstein-Barr has anything to do with Chicken Pox or Shingles which are both caused by the same virus, varicella zoster. >> Pardon if this is a stupid question (also pardon, but this is crossposted >> for the most coverage - I really need info on this), but..... [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > be contagious. > I do know that L-Lysine definitely helps her NOT have outbreaks. >I don't think Epstein-Barr has anything to do with Chicken Pox or Shingles >which are both caused by the same virus, varicella zoster. EBV (Epstein-Barr Virus) indeed doesn't have anything to do with Chicken Pox or Shingles; I've worked with it for years in tissue culture. It's main manifestation is mononucleosis. It doesn't cross the species barrier to cats. >>I don't think Epstein-Barr has anything to do with Chicken Pox or Shingles >>which are both caused by the same virus, varicella zoster. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > It's main manifestation is mononucleosis. It doesn't cross the species > barrier to cats. Thanks Wendy and Gandalf. Another question - even if they're not all Epstein-Barr, aren't all of these manifestations a variation of the herpes virus? I always thought that chicken pox, infectious mononucleosis, cold sores, and shingles were all part of the same virus. SignatureHugs, CatNipped See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ >>>I don't think Epstein-Barr has anything to do with Chicken Pox or Shingles >>>which are both caused by the same virus, varicella zoster. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >chicken pox, infectious mononucleosis, cold sores, and shingles were all >part of the same virus. Yes, Epstein Barr is a member of the herpes 'family' of viruses. but it doesn't infect people the way may other members of the herpes family of viruses do, and has nothing to do with shingles or chicken pox: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epstein-Barr_virus *Another question - even if they're not all Epstein-Barr, aren't all of these *manifestations a variation of the herpes virus? I always thought that *chicken pox, infectious mononucleosis, cold sores, and shingles were all *part of the same virus. Not "the" herpes virus. Each is "a" herpes virus. It's a whole group of viruses (or virii if you prefer :)) SignatureHillary Israeli, VMD Lafayette Hill/PA/USA/Earth "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is too dark to read." --Groucho Marx > Pardon if this is a stupid question (also pardon, but this is crossposted > for the most coverage - I really need info on this), but..... > > How contagious is herpes in a cat's eye? Very >What degree of contact would it > take to pass this from one cat to another? Discharge or secretions into the mucus membranes. IOW, "wet" virus transfer. > Is this virus the same as or > related to the human herpes virus (or the Epstein-Barr virus*)? Is it > possible to transfer this from cat to human or human to cat? It is Feline Herpes-1 virus that causes conjunctivitis in cats. It is not the same as the human virus and will not affect humans. > Manifestations of the Epstein-Barr virus in humans are: Chicken Pox, > Mononucleosis, Shingles, Cold Sores, Genital Herpes (have I missed any?). CP and Shingles is Varicella zoster, Mono is Epstein Barr or cytomegalovirus (many times misdiagnosed as EB), cold sores and genital herpes are Herpes Simplex virus 1 or 2 (both can affect any body part). Herpes simplex class viruses are most closely related to feline herpes. IIRC, both are single-stranded viruses and reside in terminal nerve ganglia and become latent. Cats with corneal ulcers, conjunctivitis and other eye conditions such as keratitis may actually have Bartonella, so be sure the cat is tested for this as well. -L. >> Pardon if this is a stupid question (also pardon, but this is crossposted >> for the most coverage - I really need info on this), but..... [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > -L. Great information, Lyn, thanks! It's Demi I was worried about - but I think all she has is some "sleep" in the corner of her eye that is dark brown (which shows up starkly on her white and pink face) and has persisted for a week. It didn't look bad enough for a vet visit, and it's drying up now. She never did get any mucus or redness on the eye itself - it was just crust on the inside corner of the eye (on the skin below the tear duct, not the eye itself). Here are some pictures of it as it is this morning: http://www.possibleplaces.com/demi_eye/ Demi's never been outside, but Jessie escapes for a few minutes at a time every once in a while and one of the strays I feed outside has a bad case of what looks to me like herpes in her eye. The other transmission angle I was looking at is the fact that, starting at age 2, I had severe chicken pox, severe mono (I was one of the rare cases that even had the rash with it), shingles, and cold sores. I am obviously harboring the virus and am, myself, severely immunocompromised. I didn't know if humans could "shed" the virus and cats pick it up in wet tissue. SignatureHugs, CatNipped See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ > Great information, Lyn, thanks! > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Here are some pictures of it as it is this morning: > http://www.possibleplaces.com/demi_eye/ That looks more like common eye infection to me. if it is clearing up, I wouldn't worry about it but if it persists, see the vet. > Demi's never been outside, but Jessie escapes for a few minutes at a time > every once in a while and one of the strays I feed outside has a bad case [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > myself, severely immunocompromised. I didn't know if humans could "shed" > the virus and cats pick it up in wet tissue. Nah. You really can't transfer a disease to your cats. I once was convinced I gave my cats a rhinovirus whichis a possibility but I don't think a case of human to cat transmission has ever been documented. If you have a stray with corneal ulcers or conjunctivitis which you think may be herpes, I would be inclined to trap it and take it to the HS. I know the chances of it being euthanized are high, but I think its better to keep the disease from spreading among the wild population. It's a nasty disease. We once got a kitten surrendered who was stuck in a fence - maybe 5 weeks old, max. Poor little thing had an eyeball that was so infected with herpes that it was absolutley grotesque. He had to have caught it from Momma cat. I felt so bad for him I sponsored him until he could be placed. Eventually we removed the eyeball and placed the little guy, and he did fine afterward. It's just such a gruesome disease. That's one of the cases that will always stick with me and I think it is because of the severity of his infection. Well, that and he was cute, fuzzy piebald bluepoint siamese with a pathetic mew that melted your heart. :) -L. > CatNipped wrote: >> Pardon if this is a stupid question (also pardon, but this is [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > -L. Great information, Lyn, thanks! It's Demi I was worried about - but I think all she has is some "sleep" in the corner of her eye that is dark brown (which shows up starkly on her white and pink face) and has persisted for a week. It didn't look bad enough for a vet visit, and it's drying up now. She never did get any mucus or redness on the eye itself - it was just crust on the inside corner of the eye (on the skin below the tear duct, not the eye itself). Here are some pictures of it as it is this morning: http://www.possibleplaces.com/demi_eye/ Demi's never been outside, but Jessie escapes for a few minutes at a time every once in a while and one of the strays I feed outside has a bad case of what looks to me like herpes in her eye. The other transmission angle I was looking at is the fact that, starting at age 2, I had severe chicken pox, severe mono (I was one of the rare cases that even had the rash with it), shingles, and cold sores. I am obviously harboring the virus and am, myself, severely immunocompromised. I didn't know if humans could "shed" the virus and cats pick it up in wet tissue. SignatureHugs, CatNipped See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ AHHhh, so much easier to see in the white kitty than the black kitty..... here's the pics of our kitty koko : http://richandlaurie.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=33 koko DID have corneal ulcers at one point , but at her last exam there was no evidence of scarring, so somehow they miraculously healed...... yipeee, I didn't know that they would ever heal to the point that they totally disappeared. She was treated with azythromycin - 2 courses of 25 days, hoping that if the constant problems were bartonella - they would clear after the standard (one course) and then not so standard adding another course) treatment. Now we are at the point of stopping ALL the herpes meds for 2-3 weeks, and biting the bullet ($$$) for the testing.... they will test for herpes and bartonella, and whatever else they do... we were hoping by treating that we could discover which treatment worked, but she always has the eye discharge........ even while on the herpes meds. you might remember the saga of kady and koko kady was the tiny wee one who followed the doggy gabby home... its impossible to keep 2 kitties apart, so we just figured that if kady got sick too with herpes then we would just have 2 cats to treat not one. Seems that kady's immune system is just stronger perhaps, cuz she is fine. No eye infections and no discharge....... so far (knock on wood) A few days ago I posted pics on abpa, of course some idiot has gone nutso on the group and is posting 2000 pics a day of NON cats.... I have not been keeping up with posting new pics on our website, if u want to see more of kady and koko, I will post a few more over there. Hope kitty's eyes heal quickly... for koko, i dampen a paper towel, break into smaller pieces, and gently swab underneath her eyes, without actually rubbing the eye itself..... she really doesnt mind at all - I think it feels good to her to get the dried out crusties off her face. laurie www.richandlaurie.com > AHHhh, so much easier to see in the white kitty than the black > kitty..... > here's the pics of our kitty koko : > http://richandlaurie.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=33 Aw, poor baby looks so miserable! > Hope kitty's eyes heal quickly... for koko, i dampen a paper towel, > break into smaller pieces, > and gently swab underneath her eyes, without actually rubbing the eye > itself..... she really doesnt > mind at all - I think it feels good to her to get the dried out crusties > off her face. Thanks, I hope kitty koko gets better too! SignatureHugs, CatNipped See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ > laurie > www.richandlaurie.com > How contagious is herpes in a cat's eye? What degree of contact would it > take to pass this from one cat to another? Is this virus the same as or > related to the human herpes virus (or the Epstein-Barr virus*)? Is it > possible to transfer this from cat to human or human to cat? 1. Very. Most cats carry, some are affected, some are not. 2. Very little. Secretions would do it. 3. No. 4. No. > > How contagious is herpes in a cat's eye? What degree of contact would it > > take to pass this from one cat to another? Is this virus the same as or [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > 3. No. > 4. No. Hmmm. Out of 25 all inside cats, one of ours has (had) herpes outbreak in only one eye. We did not quarantine her but administered a vet approved ointment and L-Lysine daily for about a month--dosage prescribed by the vet. You can buy the L-Lysine OTC, but there is some question as to the amount that should be administered. None of the other cats acquired the disease, and when her eye cleared to the point where she no longer squinted or showed a red rim, we stopped the L-Lysine. It's been 15 months and no reacquisition. --Catmandu > It's been 15 months and no reacquisition. No recrudescence. No such thing as reaquisition. Herpes is like diamonds- both are forever. > > It's been 15 months and no reacquisition. > > > No recrudescence. No such thing as reaquisition. Herpes is like diamonds- > both are forever. Whatever --Catmandu > Whatever > > --Catmandu Thanks for being so positive. It's fine people such as yourself who make taking the time after working a seventy hour week to stop in here and try to pass on some information worth it. Please be careful tomorrow and don't step in front of a bus or anything. > Pardon if this is a stupid question (also pardon, but this is crossposted > for the most coverage - I really need info on this), but..... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Manifestations of the Epstein-Barr virus in humans are: Chicken Pox, > Mononucleosis, Shingles, Cold Sores, Genital Herpes (have I missed any?). There are various herpesviruses, but in general, they can transmit across species. One form in apes tends to be lethal in humans. Herpes eye infections need aggressive care, and I would recommend gloves and goggles when administering it. Incidentally, NEVER NEVER NEVER put a corticosteroid into an eye unless you are certain herpesvirus is not present -- it triggers an extreme exacerbation. I'd have to check on the current treatments for opthalmic herpes. In general, the preferred systemic drug is valacyclovir, with acyclovir as a second choice. > Herpes eye infections need aggressive care, and I would > recommend gloves and goggles when administering it. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > herpes. In general, the preferred systemic drug is valacyclovir, > with acyclovir as a second choice. I've really only had to deal with two cats with severe herpes eye symptoms, and that's with my two youngest. The guy that rescued them wanted to keep them all together longer than 8 weeks, but they all had eye symptoms, and when one would clear up, they'd quickly get symptoms again from the littermates spreading from one to the other. We went through lots of different eye goop and drops during their early months, but the one thing that always seemed to work was L-lysine in high doses - 250 mg 2x per day. Back then it was easy - mix their dose in their food (canned which was a novelty then) or in baby food spooned to them (which was even more of a treat). The eye stuff never did any good, but the Lysine did. Even now, at about 1.5 years old, they get goopy eyes from time to time, and Rhett just had a case of conjunctivitis and his TED fluoresced his eyes, found no scratch in the cornea, so prescribed a tube of gunk that has a corticosteroid. She said there was no virus present, but I'm still unclear as to how she came to that conclusion. She's our new TED who took over the practice of our much loved TED who just retired. SignatureCheryl > Herpes eye infections need aggressive care, and I would recommend > gloves and goggles when administering it. Incidentally, NEVER NEVER > NEVER put a corticosteroid into an eye unless you are certain > herpesvirus is not present -- it triggers an extreme exacerbation. Gloves and goggles if you're treating a primate, yes. Gloves and goggles if you're treating a cat- only if you've got bad aim and said kitty is trying to shred your arms. > > Herpes eye infections need aggressive care, and I would recommend > > gloves and goggles when administering it. Incidentally, NEVER NEVER [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > you're treating a cat- only if you've got bad aim and said kitty is trying > to shred your arms. If I'm applying opthalmic drops or ointments, I'm exposed to fluids potentially containing viruses. The gloves are more to avoid cross-contamination; the goggles are for splash protection. Let's put it this way -- I've worked at BSL2 and BSL3 with viruses (as well as bacteria). Even with the BSL3 glove box, we felt safer being double-gloved (i.e., one being the neoprene one in the box). > Let's put it this way -- I've worked at BSL2 and BSL3 with viruses (as > well as bacteria). Even with the BSL3 glove box, we felt safer being > double-gloved (i.e., one being the neoprene one in the box). You are not going to get Herpes from a cat, though. -L. > If I'm applying opthalmic drops or ointments, I'm exposed to fluids > potentially containing viruses. The gloves are more to avoid [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > well as bacteria). Even with the BSL3 glove box, we felt safer being > double-gloved (i.e., one being the neoprene one in the box). I'm not saying you shouldn't put on a Level 4 suit before treating feline herpes, I'm just saying it's a waste of time. The feline herpes virus isn't zoonotic. > There are various herpesviruses, but in general, they can transmit > across species. One form in apes tends to be lethal in humans. *Feline* herpesvirus is *not* zoonotic. > Herpes eye infections need aggressive care, and I would recommend > gloves and goggles when administering it. Incidentally, NEVER NEVER [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > general, the preferred systemic drug is valacyclovir, with acyclovir as > a second choice. So far, in this thread, I've read to avoid steroid treatments when herpes virus is present, and when there is a scratch on the cornea. So, how does the vet *know* that the herpes virus is present before prescribing? Is there a reliable test? What sort of eye infections *do* they prescribe steroids for? Sherry > So far, in this thread, I've read to avoid steroid treatments when > herpes virus is present, and when there is a scratch on the cornea. So, > how does the vet *know* that the herpes virus is present before > prescribing? AFAIK, the only definitive test is to do PCR (polymerase chain reaction - a molecular biology technique) with a secretion sample to detect the DNA. >Is there a reliable test? > What sort of eye infections *do* they prescribe steroids for? Steriods are to reduce the inflammation. It could be used for any infection that was severe where you could rule out corneal abrasions and Herpes (based on clinical symptoms and patient history), but in my experience most opthalmic preps are antibiotic-only for cats with eye infections. There may be other criteria I don't know about, too. -L. "-L." <gentleboa@peacemail.com> wrote in message > > Steriods are to reduce the inflammation. It could be used for any > infection that was severe where you could rule out corneal abrasions > and Herpes (based on clinical symptoms and patient history), but in my > experience most opthalmic preps are antibiotic-only for cats with eye > infections. There may be other criteria I don't know about, too. This makes me wonder- I have a 15 week old shelter cat who presented with typical URI symptoms that included non productive conjunctivitis. He was scoped for abrasions (none) then prescribed a steroid/antibiotic eye ointment which helped. Once that tube was nearing empty I picked up another- which did no good at all and even seemed to make it worse. For a week I alternated the two tubes to see if I could discover why one tube worked and the other did not. Only after a week did I get out a magnifying glass and discover that the second (ineffective) tube was antibiotic only with no steroids. I got another tube of the steroid ointment and he cleared up- with the odd flare up every two weeks or so. I have had his eyes looked at by two different vets- and no mention was made of 1) whether the URI was herpes or not- they just assumed it was, and 2) that steroids were bad for herpes related conjunctivitis. Has my cat been harmed? Are these two vets not taking proper care with their shelter contract cats? They make a mint being the shelter referral docs, as the shelter was billed for every one of my many visits. What else could cause conjunctivitis flare ups besides herpes? -- Toni http://www.irish-wolfhounds.com > This makes me wonder- I have a 15 week old shelter cat who presented with > typical URI symptoms that included non productive conjunctivitis. He was [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > of 1) whether the URI was herpes or not- they just assumed it was, and 2) > that steroids were bad for herpes related conjunctivitis. Herpes causes keratitis which is degradation of the cornea. That's why you want to avoid steriods - they can make the keratitis worse. Are you sure it wasn't an anti-viral preparation? There may be some steroids that are ok for use with Herpes - I don't know. Phil P. might know more about it. I know we did not prescribe steriod preps for Herpes at the feline pracrtice where I worked. But 99% of the cases we saw involved severe corneal abrasions. > Has my cat been harmed? Probably not. How is he doing now? > Are these two vets not taking proper care with their shelter contract cats? > They make a mint being the shelter referral docs, as the shelter was billed > for every one of my many visits. > > What else could cause conjunctivitis flare ups besides herpes? A lot of conditions - rhinoviruses, foreign material. Are you sure they thought he had Herpes? -L. > What else could cause conjunctivitis flare ups besides herpes? ......all I can offer you is this: http://www.animaleyecare.net/diseases/conjunctivitis.htm http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/30200.htm ........And how the heck are you Toni? Long time no see! buglady take out the dog before replying "buglady" <buglady99@bigfootdog.com> said in alt.med.veterinary: > ........And how the heck are you Toni? Long time no see! Ditto! Where're you posting from Toni? How are the big guys? Signature--Matt. Rocky's a Dog. > flare up every two weeks or so. > > I have had his eyes looked at by two different vets- and no mention was > made > of 1) whether the URI was herpes or not- they just assumed it was, Which is a pretty good guess, as it's the most common cause. The diagnostics to find out what is growing are generally not cheap, and most cats, regardless of etiology, do just fine with topical antibiotics and supportive care. and 2) > that steroids were bad for herpes related conjunctivitis. Don't know if everyone feels the same, but I was trained never to give occular steroids to a cat with URI. Most often, if it's herpes, you're reducing the inflammation (hence they feel better) at the expense of allowing the immune system to learn to deal with the problem. > Has my cat been harmed? Not if he recovered. > What else could cause conjunctivitis flare ups besides herpes? Calicivirus, mycoplasma, and chlamydia are the usual suspects. > -- > Toni > http://www.irish-wolfhounds.com ["Followup-To:" header set to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes.] On 2006-02-01, -L. penned: >> So far, in this thread, I've read to avoid steroid treatments when >> herpes virus is present, and when there is a scratch on the cornea. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > reaction - a molecular biology technique) with a secretion sample to > detect the DNA. For humans, there is a blood test to identify whether you have either herpes type 1 or type 2 in your system, even if there's no outbreak. They can also culture lesions to test for it (don't know how this is done; maybe it's the same as the PCR thingie). Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca > How contagious is herpes in a cat's eye? What degree of contact would it Hi, hope someone was able to help with this. I wanted to comment, did you know that a fever blister on a human lip is herpes too? oh yeah ["Followup-To:" header set to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes.] On 2006-02-01, Mr Tibbs penned: >> How contagious is herpes in a cat's eye? What degree of contact >> would it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > oh yeah Er, can be. Not all are. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca > Pardon if this is a stupid question (also pardon, but this is crossposted > for the most coverage - I really need info on this), but..... CatNipped? Have you been kissing on your cat, then you found out it had herpes on the eye..now you're wondering if you got em. I know it's not funny...but after reading this a few times...you gotta admit! and I know you plant all sorts of kisses on dem kids! >> Pardon if this is a stupid question (also pardon, but this is crossposted >> for the most coverage - I really need info on this), but..... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > and I know you plant all sorts of kisses on dem kids! No actually I was worried that I could give it to them! These particular viruses have nothing to do with kissing - it started when I was two years old and got chicken pox so bad that I still have scars from it today. SignatureHugs, CatNipped See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ > No actually I was worried that I could give it to them! These particular > viruses have nothing to do with kissing - it started when I was two years > old and got chicken pox so bad that I still have scars from it today. most pox will leave a scar, i have two little spots on my stomach you can't hardly see them from the fur, but i know they are there from pox. :) SEIZE THE DAY? >> No actually I was worried that I could give it to them! These >> particular viruses have nothing to do with kissing - it started when [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > SEIZE THE DAY? I have a chicken pox scar on my leg, I can still clearly remember picking at it when I was seven. I wish I could remember things that happend yesterday. ;-) SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy and Bagheera) A House is not a home, without a cat. http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk ["Followup-To:" header set to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes.] On 2006-02-02, CatNipped penned: > No actually I was worried that I could give it to them! These > particular viruses have nothing to do with kissing - it started when > I was two years old and got chicken pox so bad that I still have > scars from it today. Doesn't everyone who had chickenpox have scars? Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca > Pardon if this is a stupid question (also pardon, but this is crossposted > for the most coverage - I really need info on this), but..... > > How contagious is herpes in a cat's eye? Don't have sex with your cat - it's not fair on him. Bob >> Pardon if this is a stupid question (also pardon, but this is crossposted >> for the most coverage - I really need info on this), but..... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Bob Great another one In article <qAzEf.96$_c.80@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, > > Don't have sex with your cat - it's not fair on him. > > > > Bob > > > Great another one Sounds like good advice to me. <g> jw We have 5 cats. One cat had his original outbreak 5 years ago in his eye at a time when we were living in a small 2 bedroom apartment, in other words, tight quarters. None of the others cats ever received the herpes. Now living in a much larger house, and another outbreak in the same cat 2 years ago, again none of the other cats were ever infected.
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