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Litterbox problem.  Help Please!

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Shy Guy - 24 Jan 2006 06:45 GMT
I have a two related questions to pose to the group.

The first relates to an older cat who is having problems using the litter
box on occasion.

Background:  I have two cats.  The female since she was a kitten.  One year
after that, I decided to get her a companion, a male I found at an animal
shelter.  His age was not definite, but the shelter owners claimed he was 2,
this is probably accurate within a year or so, so both cats are close in
age.  Both cats were neutered before they were ever placed together.  The
female took some time to adjust to the new presence but with a lot of
patience on our parts, she finally got used to him over a period of a couple
of weeks.  She has remained the more aggressive and territorial of the two
throughout their relationship, while he has always been gentler, calmer, and
submissive since the day he came to live with us (indeed, their response to
their owners has always been the same as well:  she is possessive of her
owner and jealous when he gets the attention; she likes affection but is
aggressive in her interaction and play;  he has always been an absolute
sweetheart from day one).

Anyway, the female is now 12 years old, and he is somewhere in the 12-14
range, so they have been together for many years.   Occasionally, in years
past, I would discover large hidden collections of feces in out of the way
places, for example behind the television set, and in the back corner of the
closet.  Based on the amount of droppings, it clearly had been occurring for
a long period of time when I finally cleaned there and discovered it.  In
certain areas of the apartment, I would sometimes walk around and get a waft
of urine smell, although I never found a wet spot or stain anywhere.  It
became clear that the female was not using the litter box regularly.  Most
of the time she does, but periodically does not.  The male has never had
this problem.  Except on very rare occasions, I scoop out the contents of
the litter box daily, and replace the litter when it gets rather low.
Admittedly, I do not wash and completely replace the litter in the box very
often.

Perhaps 3 or 4 years ago, things took a disturbing turn.  I finally found a
wet spot.  It was on my bed right where I sleep, near my pillow.  She had
urinated on the bed.  Since that night, she periodically defecates and
urinates in the exact same spot, rather than use the litter box in those
instances.  I have now slept on a vinyl-lined mattress cover in order to
protect my king-size mattress from damage for the past few years.  In
addition, I use an old rain poncho as a dropcloth that protects that quarter
of the bed and bedspread which I must lay out without fail every single
morning or panic that my blanket and sheets might be ruined before I get
back home.  She clearly likes that spot, as her behavior has continued for
these past few years and always hits the rain poncho squarely.  At least
this has spared my bed and linens any further damage.  Still, I find the
situation maddening.  Feces is easy enough to deal with, but urine is a
mess, even when I only have to scrub a rain poncho.  Last night, I readied
for bed, exhausted, but discovered I could not retire until I took care of a
warm malodorous puddle on my rain poncho.  I decided last night that no
matter how attached I may be to the animal, if a definitive solution to the
behavior cannot be discovered, the cat will be moving to a shelter.  It is
simply not worth the aggravation anymore.  Any attempts to discipline her or
train her not to do this and retrain her to use her litter box have been
unsuccessful.  After all, she does use the litter box 90-95% of the time, so
she knows where it is and prefers to use it.  Her decision not to, and even
moreso, her decision to use my bed as her single alternative, is clearly
just that, a decision, with a definite agenda.

When the problem first moved to the bed, a few years ago, I asked the vet
about the problem.  She told me to get a second litter box.  A multiple cat
household should always have multiple litter boxes, said she.  Occasionally,
I put out a second box when I have to leave town for a few days and they are
to be left alone, and generally she does not use the bed if the other litter
box is out, even when neither is cleaned for a few days, so at face value,
this could solve the problem.  However, I do not want to care for two boxes
permanently.  I do not have room in my bathroom for a second box, and I
really would prefer not to have a litter box in my bedroom, living room,
etc.  Besides, I am so careful about scooping the box out daily that it
shouldn’t be a  problem.

I guess my first question is whether anyone else here has dealt with a
similar problem.  What do you attribute this behavior to?  How did anyone
else deal with it, short of getting rid of the cat?  Is the vet’s advice
sound?  Is a second permanent box the only solution?

My other question relates to automatic electric litter boxes that self clean
after each use.  I’m thinking that this could be the solution, assuming the
cat’s main objection is that she doesn’t want to use a box that has another
cat’s waste in it.  I have a coworker who has two cats and one of these
machines, and swears by it.  In some ways, purchasing one of these is
capitulating anyway, since the models I have seen would not fit well in my
bathroom currently, so I would need to find a place for it in another part
of the apartment anyway, but at least I would still have one box to deal
with and not two, and there clearly would be less maintenance for me once it
was set up.  Of course, they also are relatively expensive, although as a
one-time cost I’m not that concerned, IF it solves the problem, since both
cats are likely to live several more years and I would prefer to keep them
both for their natural lifespans.

So, the next question is do you think this investment is likely to be a
successful way to deal with the problem?

Finally, I would like some advice and feedback on any of the models of
automatic litter boxes.  I went to the local Petsmart today and looked at
all the models.  They all do basically the same thing, but differ
significantly in price, size, and appearance.  They probably have different
ongoing overhead costs in terms of replacing liners, other parts, and the
like.  I’m also curious just how well they function.  It’s easy to scoop out
one solid clump of urine, but sometimes they urinate on the bottom of the
box rather than directly into litter, therefore the urine basically spreads
out over the bottom.  The litter still absorbs the urine once the cats bury
their handiwork but now instead of being a round discrete clump, it is more
of widely dispersed wet clay that sometimes takes time to scrape off the
bottom in order to get it all out of the box.  How would an electric box,
with it’s automatic “rake” deal with this situation?  I just imagine that
the blades of the rake would sift through and slice up the urine soaked
clay, but not necessarily pick it all up and deposit it in the bin.

What I’m looking for here is any product feedback you all can give me.  Who
has experience with the following models?  How satisfied are you with it?
What are the best/worst features of that particular machine?  What are the
approximate ongoing costs for the parts you need to replace periodically?
Is it worth it?

Littermaid $100 (also available in a Mega size for $160, but doesn’t look
that much larger, so I’m not sure if paying the extra $60 could possibly be
worth it; after all the whole point is that each time the cat enters it,
they are entering a newly cleaned box, so what’s the point of the larger
size?)  This is the one my coworker has (standard size) and he says it works
great for his two cats.

Littersweep Ultra (Stylette) $80

Purrforma Plus XL (Petmate) $200 (it should provide bidet service for the
cats for $200, Jeez!)

Scoopfree $140 (Apparently from the makers of Freshstep Litter, they sell
special replacement trays pre-filled with Freshstep, could be expensive to
maintain)

I’m sorry that my first post to these groups is so long, but I did want to
be thorough in my explanations and needs.

TIA

Shy Guy
~*Connie*~ - 24 Jan 2006 14:13 GMT
you have asked and answered your own question.  There isn't a problem when
there are two litterboxes out.  so put two litter boxes out!!  You say you
don't want to keep scrubbing your bed, but your not willing to put out two
boxes, why is that more difficult that having urine all over the house.
Suck it up, say you are sorry to the cats, and put out a second or even a
third box.  Think about it.  Would YOU want to walk over someone else's poop
to go to the bathroom?  I think not, and cats are WAY more sensitive to
smells and what not than you are, especially since their legs are shorter
and their noses are much closer to the problem.

An electric litterbox is not a good idea for multiple cat households.  How
they work is the sensors detect when the cat walks into the box, and a few
minutes later it then scoops.  If one of your cats gets in it, then a few
moments later your second cat is walking up to the box as it starts to scoop
it will freak them out and scare them.  Also the waste receptacle is
something you would have to clean more than daily with more than one cat.
Don't do it.

>I have a two related questions to pose to the group.
>
[quoted text clipped - 167 lines]
>
> Shy Guy
MaryL - 24 Jan 2006 14:25 GMT
>I have a two related questions to pose to the group.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
><snip>
> Shy Guy

First, has your cat had a thorough medical evaluation, especially for UTI or
interstitial cystitis?  That is one of the most common causes of
inappropriate urination.  Cats will sometimes associate the litter box with
painful urination.  If your vet knows about this problem and hasn't
conducted any tests, then it's time for a second opinion.  Here is a short
article on UTI you might want to read:
http://www.isnare.com/?id=13217&ca=Pets
And here is an article specifically on interstitial cystisis:
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&C=&A=651&SourceID=42
And still one more article:
http://www.nssvet.org/ici/resources/urinary.php
The last article mentions possible beneficial effects of Feliway.  I have
frequently suggested that people try Feliway.  Feliway is used for behavior
modification and can be very useful in reducing stress. It is available in
plug-in diffusers (with refills available) and as a spray. I used the
plug-ins so it can be working all the time. A spray version is also
available. It is excellent for an occasional use, such as spraying the
carrier about 20 minutes before you take your cat to the vet, but the
plug-in diffuser is better for long-term use because it releases premeasured
doses. (In your case, I would definitely recommend the plug-in version.)
Refills can be purchased for the dispenser. One bottle lasts a little more
than a month.Here is a link to a study by Ohio State University:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/11/001129074611.htm

Second, your bed now probably has a scent that is an attractant to the cat.
It is important to *thoroughly* clean it, using an enzymatic product.
Remember, you cat has a better sense of smell than you do.  You may even
need to put a new pad and sheets, etc. on the bed.  Make sure the coverlet
does *not* have a "rubbery" backing because that is also an attractant to
many cats.  (Likewise, avoid mats and rugs with that rubbery backing, and
for the same reason.)

If you think the problem is behavioral -- and it may involve behavioral
issues by now even if the underlying cause is medical -- I suggest that you
consider the Tufts University Petfax Program (coordinated through their
School of Veterinary Medicine). This is a consulting service for pet
behavioral problems  My sister had good results with this service.  I think
the original consultation was $198.00, but it included 3 follow-ups (and I
personally think that would be a more effective use for your money than the
automatic litter boxes).  There is a report to fill out first, and it is
very important to include *all details*. Here are two links:--
Tufts Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine Petfax Program:
http://www.tufts.edu/vet/petfax/
About the Petfax Program:
http://www.tufts.edu/vet/petfax/about.html

It is important that you keep the litter box clean.  I think you already
recognize that, based on your question about automatic litter boxes.  The
general rule of thumb is one litter box per cat plus one extra, and they
should be cleaned *very* frequently.  I have already posted a couple of
messages here about a litter scoop that I am now using.  It is inexpensive
(and *not* automatic, of course), but it is surprisingly effective.  It is
hard to see a difference from the pictures, but the tines are
triangular-shaped, and the difference is remarkable in actuall use -- all
dirty litter is retained on the scoop and clean litter quickly filters
through (without shaking, which breaks up the clumps).  The box really does
remain much cleaner, at least in my experience.  They only cost $8.50
(including S&H) and are available here:
http://www.litter-lifter.com/index.html  Ignore the video, though.  I don't
know of anyone who really goes to the effort in cleaning a litter box that
the video seems to imply.  As someone else wrote, it almost looks like
satire (but I know that's not what is intended).  So, ignore the video, but
I really do recommend the product.

Please do not take your cat to a shelter.  A cat of her age and the problem
you described would almost certainly face euthanasia.

MaryL

Photos of Duffy and Holly:      >'o'<
Duffy:  http://tinyurl.com/cslwf
Holly:  http://tinyurl.com/9t68o
Duffy and Holly together:  http://tinyurl.com/8b47e
Shy Guy - 25 Jan 2006 05:33 GMT
> Please do not take your cat to a shelter.  A cat of her age and the problem
> you described would almost certainly face euthanasia.

Thank you very much for all your useful suggestions.  And don't worry,
getting rid of the cat remains the last resort, but if I ever did bring her
to a shelter, it would be of the "no-kill" variety.

Shy Guy
annoyed@net.spammers - 30 Jan 2006 20:38 GMT
>It is important that you keep the litter box clean.  I think you already
>recognize that, based on your question about automatic litter boxes.  The
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>satire (but I know that's not what is intended).  So, ignore the video, but
>I really do recommend the product.

I ordered a Litter-Lifter scoop a week ago (sent a check) and it arrived
today in the mail. Yes the video on the website is hokey but the scoop does
work far better than others I've tried. Far less wasted good litter, no
shaking that breaks up clumps or slings the mess around because there are no
places for non-clumped (can't really call it "clean" litter once it's been
in the box!) litter to accumulate in the scoop. Non-clumped litter just
falls right through to be used again, and it sifts right through when
scooping out the solids even in deeply filled litter pans. I bought it based
on your recommendation then viewing the website, so thanks for the tip Mary!
Signature

annoyed@net.spammers
Craig, Kathi & "Cat Five" the tabby girl

whayface - 24 Jan 2006 14:26 GMT
>I have a two related questions to pose to the group.
>
[quoted text clipped - 134 lines]
>
>Shy Guy

If as you said she is fine with a second litter box then I would say that is the way to
go.  You say you do not have room in bath for two.  They make litter box enclosures that
contain a litter box inside so when they are left in other rooms of house they are unseen.
Drs. Smith and Fosters ( http://www.drsfostersmith.com/ )

Second solution: close your bedroom door to keep the cats out.  My mother-in-law has 10
and keeps her bedroom a catfree zone (Except when one will sneak in).

If you most get rid of her I would see if could find someone that wants a cat that will
take her or as a last resort find a no-kill shelter to take her.
majcm - 28 Jan 2006 05:02 GMT
> >I have a two related questions to pose to the group.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 75 lines]
> >My other question relates to automatic electric litter boxes that self clean
> >after each use.  I'm thinking that this could be the solution, assuming
the
> >cat's main objection is that she doesn't want to use a box that has
another
> >cat's waste in it.  I have a coworker who has two cats and one of these
> >machines, and swears by it.  In some ways, purchasing one of these is
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> >was set up.  Of course, they also are relatively expensive, although as a
> >one-time cost I'm not that concerned, IF it solves the problem, since
both
> >cats are likely to live several more years and I would prefer to keep them
> >both for their natural lifespans.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> >ongoing overhead costs in terms of replacing liners, other parts, and the
> >like.  I'm also curious just how well they function.  It's easy to scoop
out
> >one solid clump of urine, but sometimes they urinate on the bottom of the
> >box rather than directly into litter, therefore the urine basically spreads
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> >
> >What I'm looking for here is any product feedback you all can give me.
Who
> >has experience with the following models?  How satisfied are you with it?
> >What are the best/worst features of that particular machine?  What are the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> >Littermaid $100 (also available in a Mega size for $160, but doesn't look
> >that much larger, so I'm not sure if paying the extra $60 could possibly
be
> >worth it; after all the whole point is that each time the cat enters it,
> >they are entering a newly cleaned box, so what's the point of the larger
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> >
> >I'm sorry that my first post to these groups is so long, but I did want
to
> >be thorough in my explanations and needs.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> If you most get rid of her I would see if could find someone that wants a cat that will
> take her or as a last resort find a no-kill shelter to take her.

All of these are good suggestions, but I want to address the shelter thing.
I don't come here a lot since my 2 first babies had to be put down becuase
of renal failure & diabetes, so I don't know if ANYONE feels this way, but I
have to say it. My vet has told me in the case of older dogs & cats that
have been raised from infancy, it is more cruel to take them to a shelter,
even a no-kill, to be put in cages and grieve over losing you and their
home, than to put them to sleep. Think of her fear of a strange place
w/other strange animals and in a cage to boot. (People can yell at me, but I
spent years w/the two sick ones with insulin shots & IV fluids and they
lived in comfort for 3 and 1 more years, so euthenasia is a last resort to
me, only when they are suffering. I also now have 7 cats & a dog, so I am a
major animal lover. I just think sending an old animal that has known only
you and your home to a caged, almost certainly unadoptable end to their life
is more cruel than having it put painlessly to sleep.

That all said, PLEASE try EVERYTHING to keep your cat. If you have put up
with it this long, you can do it! The two litter boxes is obviously the
solution and I'm sure you can find somewhere to put the second one even in a
small apt. Good luck!
 
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