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Cat Forum / General Topics / October 2005I have an honest question
Even though this will probably start a debate. How do you all feel about this cloning issue for animals. Would you want to clone your cat or cats. From what I understand the kittens that were cloned produced all are just alike doing perfectly fine, very healthy. Would you want to do this. Personally yes if the personality was the same; if not I would definably adopt from the shelter or cat society that I volunteer at. Only one drawback I see about it is the spiritual part If I cloned one of my friends would both of them be waiting for me across the Rainbow bridge when it was time. > Even though this will probably start a debate. How do you all feel > about this cloning issue for animals. Would you want to clone your cat or [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > of my friends would both of them be waiting for me across the Rainbow bridge > when it was time. Conversation overhead in the afterlife... "Hey you're me!" "No, I'm me, you're.... hmmm" "<GRIN> so when whassisface the Servant comes around here's what we do..." > Even though this will probably start a debate. How do you all feel > about this cloning issue for animals. Would you want to clone your cat or [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > of my friends would both of them be waiting for me across the Rainbow > bridge when it was time. Personally, I have no interest in the cloning thing. But seeing as this is the topic, I just did a bit of surfing on the subject. Though the cloned kittens may be doing perfectly fine and may be very healthy, what about down the road? Cloning is a new thing. Consider Dolly the cloned sheep. She only lived about half as long as a sheep born under normal circumstances would. >The only one draw back you see about cloning is the spiritual part and >whether or not both of >them would be waiting for you on the other side? If that's the only drawback you see, you're either you're rich, rich or you haven't investigated the costs when it comes to cloning. :c) I do have money but I won't go into my financial well offness but I should have added this part if it was readily available and Well I won't say perfected because nothing is perfect. And I have actually done some research on the cost and I would be willing to pay it. I am thinking about doing the genetic tissue storage the company offers to its clients to store when it get available to the general public. If I live that long. It may sound selfish on my part but a couple of the firballs I love more than my wife :-) According to the companies researching it as soon as it is readily available it won't be that expensive. 2 years ago it cost $200,000 to do it now it is about $12,000 - $20,000. And it should get cheaper. I also read that dogs cells resist cloning But the question was would any of you do it :-) >I do have money but I won't go into my financial well offness > but I should have added this part if it was readily available and Well I [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > But the question was would any of you do it :-) As I said before, I have no interest in the cloning thing, so I would not do this. > Even though this will probably start a debate. How do you all feel > about this cloning issue for animals. Would you want to clone your cat or [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > of my friends would both of them be waiting for me across the Rainbow > bridge when it was time. No, I would not want to clone my cats, even if I could fantasize that I could afford it financially. First, personality cannot be cloned, so you would only be cloning physical characteristics. Second (but actually more important if listed in order of significance), untold numbers of cats are euthanized every year because there are not enough homes for them. This is the reason I think we should adopt from shelters instead of going to breeders and should spay/neuter our pets. Cloning would add still more to an overpopulated base while reducing the number of people who adopt (because the cloned cat would receive the home instead). MaryL "MaryL" <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> > No, I would not want to clone my cats, even if I could fantasize that I > could afford it financially. First, personality cannot be cloned, so you > would only be cloning physical characteristics. Since there hasn't yet been any viable cloning with a normal lifespan, how do you know that some if not all of the personality would not been duplicated too? Aside from that, I can see some reasons for cloning such as getting an animal that resembles a pet you used to have. It was for that reason that I recently adopted a six month old cat because she so closely looks like the cat I had twenty years ago. The only reason I do not support cloning at all is that sooner or later, there will be serious attempts to clone humans. That means that all the steps leading up to perfectly healthy human clones will produce malformed and imperfect specimens who will suffer greatly from their deformities. Even after successful cloning, there will be some who use them for personal purposes. It would be a new form of slavery. How many of you have seen the movie "The Island"? > "MaryL" <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > do you know that some if not all of the personality would not been > duplicated too? Because personalities are formed by experiences, upbringing, environment, etc. things that cannot be duplicated in exact detail. A clone is simply a copy with a loss of detail. Aside from that, I can see some reasons for cloning such as > getting an animal that resembles a pet you used to have. It was for that > reason that I recently adopted a six month old cat because she so closely > looks like the cat I had twenty years ago. That's not fair to the cat or your previous cat. You should have chosen the cat based on his own qualities- not because he looks like a previous cat. Knowing you (from your posts), sooner or later you'll be expecting the new cat to live up to your image of your previous cat. What happens when he doesn't? Woo there Phil Don't ever assume to know me that last part "Knowing you (from your posts), sooner or later you'll be expecting the new cat to live up to your image of your previous cat. What happens when he doesn't?" Don't even put me in the category of not caring about an animal. I may not be reading that right but the terms you put it in I believe I am making the right assumption. What would happen the cat would be loved just like any other cat that I have had over the years. My friends are treated like kings and queens and I would die for them if necessary. And as I said If the personality was the same if not I would adopt. The question was if it was medically perfected and available to the general public would you? I only asked this is that I was involved in a discussion at the shelter what would you do if you lost a pet that you loved more than life. This is my 2 cents This is not about humans and to all those who live in the movies and media hype too much. You are not thinking ahead in the human terms we could clone organs; so no more organ rejection, no more people dying waiting for someone else to die to give up an organ. Genetic research could stop and cure disease, extended life stop birth defects; and for the us older folks stop Alzheimer's If we ever get to the point where we could clone humans yes it would have to be carefully kept in checked; but in terms of cloning which I understand and agree with on certain points but not fully. But I could see Human cloning you are diagnosed with a terminal disease transfer yourself to another disease free body, you are involved in an accident that leaves you in a paralyzed state. I could agree with that. How many of us have lost loved ones and both you and they wanted to live on >Woo there Phil Don't ever assume to know me I was replying to "Upscale's" post, not yours. Next time, look at the headers before you reply. Sorry Phil my mistake just hit a little to close to home I apologize YOU are not thinking ahead and only rationalizing that the end justifies the means. On the road to cloning perfect humans are all the failed and partially failed experiments along the way. You're talking about growing a thinking and feeling human being in a test tube and then using them as spare parts so others can survive. That's slavery pure any way you look at it. And what about all the failed and partially failed clones that are created along the way? What about the thinking and feeling minds forced to exist in horribly deformed bodies that will be created along the road to creating viable clones. Growing of organs is one thing. Cloning human being is something else. "No More Retail" <nowaytospam@noway.com> wrote in message If we ever get to the point where we could clone humans yes it would have to be carefully kept in check; but in terms of cloning which I understand and agree with on certain points but not fully. But I could see Human cloning you are diagnosed with a terminal disease transfer yourself to another disease free body, you are involved in an accident that leaves you in a paralyzed state. I could agree with that. How many of us have lost loved ones and both you and they wanted to live on Any road to a medical procedure or cure or event is paved with those items you described. How do you think they got to where they are. You read too much of your own opinion into it , you need to re read it again I won't repeat you can read it again. Heck progress on any event is paved with loss and gain. It took the hurricanes in LA, MISS for the government to come to realize that something was need to be done about the animals. It was a terrible event to happen to make us learn but what advantages are being gained now. How many people died and still die to develop current medical procedures and medicines Again, you're advocating that the end justifies the means. What you're saying is that if a greater number of people will benefit, then it's all acceptable. Keeping that in mind, it would be perfectly fine to kill you, transplant your heart, lungs and kidneys. Five people live, you die. Would that be ok with you? Any road to a medical procedure or cure or event is paved with those items you described. How do you think they got to where they are. You read too much of your own opinion into it , you need to re read it again I won't repeat you can read it again If they were family and or loved ones yes I would die for them. 2nd this is a hypothetically question that asked you are adding way to much too it You have been watching way to much TV and movies This society will never become the movie "the island" in which I can see your post is starting to match its plot And Yes if the greater number benefited while a select few didn't yes it is acceptable ( my two cents ) that is simple number terms or as it is referred to simple battle field tactics. As I said before you are reading way too much of your own opinion in my post :-( And this is getting off the topic of my original post it soon will be a "god" issue debate I can see it now > "MaryL" <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > normal lifespan, how do you know that some if not all of > the personality would not been duplicated too? Basic biology. The brain does not retain information after death. Memories and personality are chemically stored in the brain. A new brain would not have the same details stored in it as the old one. A brain is not a computer hard drive. Ivor >The only reason I do not support cloning at all is that sooner or later, >there will be serious attempts to clone humans. That means that all the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >purposes. It would be a new form of slavery. How many of you have seen the >movie "The Island"? When I think of movies about cloning I think of Pet Semetary. One of the problems with cloning is the cost.......it's not cheap. Why spend many thousands of dollars when you can get a cat for next to nothing at the local animal shelter? And you know what? That cat from the animal shelter is just as good as the cloned version that is sold. And it is a lot cheaper. And it is just as loving. ------------------------------------------ http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com > Even though this will probably start a debate. How do you all feel > about this cloning issue for animals. Would you want to clone your cat or [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > of my friends would both of them be waiting for me across the Rainbow > bridge when it was time. Perhaps,if you have been a good kid. If not, perhaps you would go in another direction!!!!! Interesting question, and I have no problem with a good debate (as long as it stays polite of course :) ). I wouldn't clone for a couple of reasons. 1. I understand (although I haven't done any reasearch) that animals do age more quickly once cloned and I wouldn't want to risk them suffering. 2. I feel that to copy someone I loved would be a little dishonourable to their memory. Not sure how to explain this more fully. I agree that we are heading for trouble when we start to attempt human cloning. Kate I agree with you Kate...  Signature> Interesting question, and I have no problem with a good debate (as long > as it stays polite of course :) ). [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Kate "kate" <ktruelov@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message > 2. I feel that to copy someone I loved would be a little dishonourable > to their memory. Not sure how to explain this more fully. There's nothing to explain, I understand that fully. I was adopted when I was less than a year old. Now that my adoptive parents are deceased, friends sometimes ask me why don't I look up my biological parents? The records are there if I want to find out, but I'm really not interested. As far as I'm concerned, for me to do so would dishonour and diminish the people who raised me and supported me my whole live and whom I consider to be my real parents. I even feel that way a little bit with the cat I just adopted. But because this newly adopted cat looks so much like the one I had twenty years ago, I'm leaning towards looking at it as a tribute to the first cat. It was just that when I saw a picture of this new cat online, my heart broke and I had to go out and adopt her right away. Now she's terrorizing me every opportunity she gets. And when she sees me getting angry at her for getting into something, she comes trotting over, gives me a nuzzle and starts purring. She's got me wrapped around her paw like a play toy. > Even though this will probably start a debate. How do you all > feel > about this cloning issue for animals. Would you want to clone your > cat or cats. From what I understand the kittens that were cloned > produced all are just alike doing perfectly fine, very healthy. > Would you want to do this. No. Everything I've read indicates that the personality is not cloned, only appearances. I think it would be very disapointing to have a cat that looked like my favorite (very distinctive markings) but didn't act like her. I understand the pros and cons, and however it comes out I would clone one of my cats. Hopefully he wouldn't be quite as much a momma's boy, his color is beautiful, aren't all though. :-) Signature"Other than telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and now, die, I think the Republicans have done a fine job of getting government out of our personal lives." > >> Even though this will probably start a debate. How do you all [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > looked like my favorite (very distinctive markings) but didn't act like > her. "alt4" <alt4@horizonnospam.net> wrote in message > I understand the pros and cons, and however it comes out I would clone one > of my cats. Hopefully he wouldn't be quite as much a momma's boy, his color > is beautiful, aren't all though. :-) A momma's boy cat? You would have like my first cat then. I remember once when I poured a little beer into a bottle cap and put it on the floor for him to drink. He lapped it up in two seconds flat. Every time after that when I opened a beer and it made that "pssht" noise of escaping pressure, my cat would come running to beg for beer. I also remember another time when I cooked up three pounds of large shrimp. Of course my cat came running at the first whiff of shrimp. For every ten shrimp I ate, I gave my cat one. I figure the cat ate about thirty shrimp and these were *big* shrimp. Anyway, I got down the last shrimp and I was so stuffed I just couldn't eat it so I gave it to the cat. He looked at it and then hissed like he was eyeing a large dog and trotted away. He was so full to that he was sick of shrimp too. I was laughing for the next hour. >> Even though this will probably start a debate. How do you all >> feel [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > looked like my favorite (very distinctive markings) but didn't act like > her. Going to your point about appearance: I have never adopted a cat based on appearance. Moreover, I have always been rather happy that they do *not* look alike because I was never tempted to expect a newly adopted cat to "act like" or "behave like" one of my furbabies that had died. That would be terribly unfair -- and unrealistic -- to the new adoptee because I have loved each of my cats so much that a new adoption would be at a great disadvantage if I started out expecting that they would somehome be behavioral "images" of each other (which now takes us back to the thread about cloning). Each cat has its own distinct personality, just like people, and I think that's wonderful. MaryL Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'< http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly) http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in") > are just alike doing perfectly fine, very healthy. Would you want to do > this. No. As much as I miss my beloved Quetzie, the cats we've adopted since him have also been wonderful. As long as there are cats and kittens euthanized due to the lack of homes, it is immoral to produce more whether by cloning or irresponsible breeding. SignatureVictor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com >> are just alike doing perfectly fine, very healthy. Would you want to do >> this. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > due to the lack of homes, it is immoral to produce more whether by cloning > or irresponsible breeding. Exactly!! -- MaryL > Even though this will probably start a debate. How do you all feel > about this cloning issue for animals. Would you want to clone your cat or [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > of my friends would both of them be waiting for me across the Rainbow bridge > when it was time. I'm not comfortable with cloning of any of the higher life-forms. We already mess with genetic engineering in vegetables for greater shelf life (tomatoes for instance). Once we move into animals and humans for example, I get then feeling we've crossed a line that should be left alone. I know there are some issues with disease that could be improved with this engineering,..but it still sounds like we will have gone to far. Cloning is an extension of this stuff, and sounds even more scarey. Jason > Even though this will probably start a debate. How > do you all feel about this cloning issue for animals. Would you want to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > of them be waiting for me across > the Rainbow bridge when it was time. The personality won't be the same. Think about it, you're cloning the physical body, not the memories and brain patterns. No, I wouldn't do it and the very thought of cloning repulses me, be it animal or human. Ivor If I had the money I would do it. Not in an attempt to restore what was lost but for two purposes. 1)if my dog developed some hind of disorder and they needed cells from before the disorder. 2) to get something equivalent to a pup from her. As for the spiritual aspect what ever is made and grows into a viable embryo is not her, will not bear her soul and will only be genetically and physically "like" her. The inborn temperament may be there but everything that she is, will have died with her, or still be with her if she were alive when the cloning takes place. This pup would only be an extension of herself in body not soul. Man can clone it, grow it, and store it, but he can not infuse it with life, that's Gods job. Gina > Even though this will probably start a debate. How do you all feel > about this cloning issue for animals. Would you want to clone your cat or [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > of my friends would both of them be waiting for me across the Rainbow > bridge when it was time. > Even though this will probably start a debate. How do you all feel >about this cloning issue for animals. Would you want to clone your cat or >cats. From what I understand the kittens that were cloned produced all >are just alike doing perfectly fine, very healthy. Would you want to do >this I would not clone my cat. 1. it is not my cat, it is not his/her personality. 2. I can't see cloning a cat when so many cats are in the animal shelters in desperate need of a home. > Personally yes if the personality was the same; if not I would >definably adopt from the shelter or cat society that I volunteer at. The personality will never ever be the same. > Only one drawback I see about it is the spiritual part If I cloned one >of my friends would both of them be waiting for me across the Rainbow bridge >when it was time. Why not clone animals, we already clone politicians? ------------------------------------------ http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com > Even though this will probably start a debate. How do you all feel >about this cloning issue for animals. Would you want to clone your cat or >cats. From what I understand the kittens that were cloned produced all >are just alike doing perfectly fine, very healthy. Would you want to do >this. No - I don't have an ethical problem with others doing so assuming there are no side-effects which would cause them undue suffering. I know (or I think I read anyway) that Dolly aged quickly, but I'm relatively ignorant on details. Nevertheless, dying young isn't inherently cruel - every living thing is different. But I would never consider doing anything like that - each life is unique and each creature has its own positive and negative qualities. While I miss those who have passed on, both pets and humans, none could ever be duplicated exactly - the nature vs. nurture debate is not so black and white - there are definite shades of grey. > Personally yes if the personality was the same; if not I would >definably adopt from the shelter or cat society that I volunteer at. I think that's the best option - my cat never made it to a shelter - I took her right off the street. > Only one drawback I see about it is the spiritual part If I cloned one >of my friends would both of them be waiting for me across the Rainbow bridge >when it was time. If that were to happen, I think it would be allright - I personally think an afterlife is a pipe dream, but I don't think I can say authoritatively that there is none (I'm firmly agnostic and will be that way until I'm dead - in which case, I'll either know better or simply won't have any thoughts on the subject anymore). Clones would probably get along well in any afterlife unless they were such arrogant vain creatures that they didn't have any redeeming qualities in the first place, in which case they could fight all they want for all I care. >> Even though this will probably start a debate. How do you all feel >>about this cloning issue for animals. Would you want to clone your cat or >>cats. From what I understand the kittens that were cloned produced all >>are just alike doing perfectly fine, very healthy. Would you want to do >>this. There are so many pets in shelters just begging for a home that I just think it's silly to clone a pet. Unless as someone else suggested, it turns out that the personality is exactly the same then what is the point? Get another tabby or whatever type your cat was and enjoy getting to know it's own unique personality as all cats and dogs have. > Unless as someone else suggested, it turns out >that the personality is exactly the same then what is the point? One of my points is that even if you get the exact same personality, what is the point? Each living creature has their own personality which is part of their beauty. I'm glad there's no one else like me and that there's no cat exactly like mine. There are no many unwanted animals destroyed every day for me to even consider cloning one. > Even though this will probably start a debate. How do you all feel > about this cloning issue for animals. Would you want to clone your cat or [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > of my friends would both of them be waiting for me across the Rainbow bridge > when it was time. > There are no many unwanted animals destroyed every day for me to even > consider cloning one. That's the reason I would not even consider buying a purebred cat. Many years ago, I dreamed of getting a purebred but couldn't afford it at that time. I'm glad I could afford it! I was a graduate student, and the feral cat I adopted turned out to be one of the most remarkable companions I could ever have dreamed of. Later, I learned about the problem you just described, and now I would not entertain the thought of a purebred. The irony is that each of my cats (all mixed -- or "moggies," as the British put it, a term I really like) has been equally as beautiful as any purebred. And what about personality and temperament? They have all been unique and wonderful, and no amount of "breeding" could produce anything better. MaryL Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'< Duffy: http://tinyurl.com/cslwf Holly: http://tinyurl.com/9t68o Duffy and Holly together: http://tinyurl.com/8b47e > Even though this will probably start a debate. How do you all feel > about this cloning issue for animals. Would you want to clone your cat or [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > of my friends would both of them be waiting for me across the Rainbow bridge > when it was time. No. Absolutely not. |
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