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ura166 - 12 Oct 2005 02:33 GMT
Hello,

My name is James. My girlfriend and I adopted a cat from the Ten Lives Club.
His name was Vincent. We changed his name to Politan.  Politan is doing well.
We also adopted another cat through Tenth Chance. We named her Cosmo. Cosmo
was doing great. Her and Politan were our children. We loved them very much.
On Friday October 7, 2005, we took Cosmo to the Community Pet Care clinic to
have her Leukemia shot and declaw taken care of. Cosmo was only thirteen
months old. The vet "SAID" everything went fine with the operation. While
Cosmo was in recovery, she stopped breathing and her heart stopped. The vet
had to give her CPR and a shot of Epinephrine. Cosmo started breathing again
but who knows how long she wasn't. The technician at Community Pet Care
called my girlfriend and told her what happened. The tech suggested we take
her to Orchard Park Vetinary Clinic for overnight observation. If this was so
critical, why didn’t they transport her right away? We picked Cosmo up around
5:00 pm and took her there with no assistance from Community Pet Care.  Her
temperature kept dropping and they did not give us anything to help in
transporting her like hot water bottles.  They just let us take her in a
towel in the freezing rain.   No one at Community Pet Care knows what
happened or would give us any answers. Orchard Park kept her overnight and we
called every hour to check on her. Each time there was no improvement. They
believed she was blind and didn't know if she would ever see again but made
us believe she would still come home. My girlfriend went to see Cosmo on
Saturday October 8, 2005. The vet said that Cosmos brain was swelling. Cosmo
did not look good at all. She was obviously out of it due to all the meds she
was on. My girlfriend went home after being with Cosmo for an hour and a half.
At 1:00 pm, the vet called and said Cosmo had passed away. Still, no one has
any answers for us. We took Cosmo to have a simple procedure done and now we
have to live with wondering what happened to our child. Now we are without
our child and Politan is lost without his sister. You have no idea what it is
like to watch him search for his sister when she is not coming home.

We feel that Orchard Park Vetinary Clinic did everything they could to save
Cosmo. We also believe that Community Pet Care did something wrong. It was a
simple procedure that is done everyday. The vet at Orchard Park Vetinary
Clinic said that she has not seen anything like this in at least ten years.
We have talked to people from Ten Lives Club and Tenth Chance. Everyone said
that they have not heard of this happening and it should not have happened.

The reason for this letter is asking for some help. We would like everyone to
take Community Pet Care off of their list of Vetinarians that people go to.
Who knows what other kinds of problems and suffering they have caused other
animals and their families. The only reason we took Cosmo there is because
they were on the list that we had to take Politan there for neutering. We
would also like you to spread the word about this place and put our story out
there so others don't have to experience what we are going through. Also, if
there is any kind of information anyone can share with us we would appreciate
it. We are looking for ANYTHING to help us answer our questions. Cosmo was
not just a cat, she was our first born. She did nothing to deserve what has
happened to her. She only lived a short life.

Thank you for your time. If anyone can help us find some answers and make
those responsible pay for what they have done it would be greatly appreciated.
We believe Cosmo should have a voice here. We don't want Cosmo to die for
nothing. She DESERVES BETTER than that.

Sincerely,

James N.    race6martin@hotmail.com
Sarah W.    ura166@aol.com
Cosmo
No More Retail - 12 Oct 2005 03:20 GMT
Sorry for your loss   but things like this happen when unnecessary surgeries
are preformed on animals

1)  simple procedure or not people die everyday for simple procedures
preformed everyday at hospitals unfortunately it is a fact of life

2) declawing is a unnecessary surgery  you probably won't get any symphony
from this group

3)  if you believe that they did something wrong a lawyer needs to be
involved

4)  have you called the vets in the area to see if this is a problem  if so
contact www.hsus.org or the local chapter of the SPCA and do something about
it

5) if you find problems call the media

and didn't someone just post about there cat passing on from being declawed

> Hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 90 lines]
> Sarah W.    ura166@aol.com
> Cosmo
Barrnabas Collins - 12 Oct 2005 23:18 GMT
>2) declawing is a unnecessary surgery  you probably won't get any symphony
>from this group
I would add that often declawing is done at the same time as
spaying/neutering and spaying/neutering is a necessary
procedure.

------------------------------------------

http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com
Monique - 16 Oct 2005 09:41 GMT
"Barrnabas Collins" <>>2) declawing is a unnecessary surgery  you probably
won't get any symphony
>>from this group
> I would add that often declawing is done at the same time as
> spaying/neutering and spaying/neutering is a necessary
> procedure.

All four of my cats went in for desexing recently and declawing wasn't even
mentioned.
223rem - 12 Oct 2005 04:30 GMT
> Hello,
>  
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> We don't want Cosmo to die for
> nothing. She DESERVES BETTER than that.

Lets assume you're not trolling.

"Declaw taken care of". You and your girlfriend are monsters, animal abusers
of the worst kind. It is you and your bitch who are responsible for that cat's death.
No one else is. You loved them very much?! You are sick. f.ck you.
Katie - 12 Oct 2005 17:33 GMT
You are disgusting,and by yelling at these people does not get your point
across besides that you are a immature a.shole. if u think decalwing is the
worst kind of animal abuse you are sadly mistaken and you should watch aminal
cops on the animal planet and see some real abuse. Open your mind and
understand that people who declaw their cats are not monsters but people who
are ignorant are!

>> Hello,
>>  
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>of the worst kind. It is you and your bitch who are responsible for that cat's death.
>No one else is. You loved them very much?! You are sick. f.ck you.
223rem - 12 Oct 2005 18:26 GMT
> You are disgusting,and by yelling at these people does not get your point
> across besides that you are a immature a.shole. if u think decalwing is the
> worst kind of animal abuse you are sadly mistaken and you should watch aminal
> cops on the animal planet and see some real abuse.

Declawing is not real abuse?

> Open your mind and
> understand that people who declaw their cats are not monsters but people who
> are ignorant are!

No, I cant "open my mind" to the benefits of declawing.
No More Retail - 12 Oct 2005 18:34 GMT
Real abuse  huh    have you ever been present to a declawing   the cats
while even under anesthesia  cry out that is with a tube down their throat
and everything.  Than for several weeks up to months it takes a cat to
recover   if that cat recovers.
It may be done by ignorant people but it real funny how ignorant people are
the ones that check out the best options for a car, go get second opinions
from another doctor, call around the get the best deal on an item  or
internet for everything else   except this.

And don't talk to me about abuse I volunteer in a shelter and help my vet
friend out  If I was to have documented all the abuse I have seen over the
years   the Faces of death series would have a whole another series
dedicated just to animals
Barrnabas Collins - 12 Oct 2005 23:59 GMT
>You are disgusting,and by yelling at these people does not get your point
>across besides that you are a immature a.shole. if u think decalwing is the
>worst kind of animal abuse you are sadly mistaken and you should watch aminal
>cops on the animal planet and see some real abuse. Open your mind and
>understand that people who declaw their cats are not monsters but people who
>are ignorant are!
I would mention that as bad as declawing is it's very low on the abuse
scale.  

There are much worse things to do to animals, or hadn't some of you
noticed that?  Between kids who put a dog on an active railroad track
to dog fighting, to dragging dogs behind a pick up truck etc.  there
are some terrirble things done to animals that are a heck of a lot
worse than declawing.   And what you see on Animal Planet is very mild
compared to alot of the animal abuse that occurs.  

------------------------------------------

http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com
223rem - 13 Oct 2005 00:16 GMT
> I would mention that as bad as declawing is it's very low on the abuse
> scale.  

That's true, but what gets me is that the lowlifes that practice it
claim to be cat lovers.
Barrnabas Collins - 13 Oct 2005 18:49 GMT
>> I would mention that as bad as declawing is it's very low on the abuse
>> scale.  
>
>That's true, but what gets me is that the lowlifes that practice it
>claim to be cat lovers.
But you can carry the cat lovers thing too far.   You realize tha
according to some of the animal lovers at PETA you're a terrible
person if you "imprison" a cat inside your house as a pet?  So
should we listen to them and throw every cat owner in jail for
imprisoning their cat/dog?

There some animal lovers who would say you're cruel if
you have your cat spayed/neutered?  One of the problems with
cruelty to animals is whose definition are you going to go
with?  

There are those at Peta who want to stop calling you
a pet owner and call you a pet "guardian."  Where will it
end?

BTW, i've got a new kitten that is now about a little over
five  weeks old.   The battle over his claws is a loosing
battle right now.   I don't want to declaw him but you know what?
I also don't want to be drippign blood all over the place.  
------------------------------------------

http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com
223rem - 13 Oct 2005 18:53 GMT
> BTW, i've got a new kitten that is now about a little over
> five  weeks old.   The battle over his claws is a loosing
> battle right now.   I don't want to declaw him but you know what?
> I also don't want to be drippign blood all over the place.  

Dripping blood?!
Do you have haemophilia? Or maybe that's a tiger cub or something?

Why dont you give it to someone else?
No More Retail - 13 Oct 2005 21:45 GMT
Do you realize that alot of PETA members need to be on medication and
hospitalized they one that are like that are the extreme activist.
Personally PETA does a lot of good  but they definitely need to learn where
and when to put there nose in  they cause just as many problems as the do
good

It sounds like you need to take a class on cat training if you are having
problems stopping the kitten from scratching. they offer them at most major
pet store chains.   If your vet drew blood from the kittens toe nail  sound
like either a accident or a stupid vet if so time to change vets.

Last time one of my cats got a hold of me to draw blood he got a blast of
water from a squirt gun ended that problem after one or two blast

Understanding the Motivation of the Scratching Behavior

Dr. Nicholas Dodman, Professor of Behavioral Pharmacology,
Director of the Behavior Clinic
Tufts University School of Veterinary Medicine

If you make the moral decision to join the ranks of the claw conservatives,
what do you do when your cat starts tearing up your furniture? Are there
things you can do to circumvent the problem, or do you just have to lock
your furniture away behind closed doors? The answers are yes, there are, and
no, you don't have to, but to make inroads on this thorny problem, it helps
to understand the motivation of the scratching behavior.

The simple explanation that furniture clawing is primarily conducted to
sharpen the claws just is not true. To use an analogy, why would dragging a
bunch of fishhooks across an armchair do anything to improve the sharpness
of their barbs? Furniture clawing does not sharpen the claws; it conditions
them by exercising muscles and helping to shuck off dead nail husks (which
may be found on the ground beneath a well-used scratching site). Another
reason why cats stretch up and sink their claws into furniture is that it
feels good. We all enjoy a good stretch, especially after a nap. But the
story doesn't end there. Scratching and clawing at various objects is also a
form of visual and olfactory marking behavior. The visual marking aspect is
easy to appreciate. The mark says, "Garfield was here." Remember at school
when all the property was inscribed with hieroglyphics such as "This desk
belongs to John Smith"? It's the same principle. Because of this, claw marks
are always strategically positioned in a highly visible location, such as
the arm of a couch facing the door (not the one facing the wall).

The olfactory component of scratching adds a more subtle component to this
marking behavior. Scent marking to a cat is like writing to a person,
conveying a message long after the sender has gone. Pheromonal odors
released from scent glands in the paws leave no doubt in another feline mind
as to exactly who Garfield was and probably what he was thinking when he
last passed by. It's as if the visual cue were a signpost directing
attention to the more detailed message, This is one explanation of why
declawed cats continue to go through the motions of furniture scratching
when they have no claws and no visible fruits of their labor. Another
explanation for the vacuous scratching of such cats is that they are
ritualistically acting out behavior that is hardwired into their neural
circuits. In other words, they keep doing it even when there is no apparent
reason to do so, because they feel compelled.

As scratching has a marking function, and marking is intensified by stress,
the frequency of scratching should increase as tensions build, and this does
indeed appear to be the case. In one situation , a cat began to scratch the
edge of an open door to the living room when a new cat was introduced to the
home. This territorial response mirrors what happens with urine marking,
too. Taking things a little further, it should be possible for a
naturalistic behavior such as scratching to be expressed compulsively. The
result would be excessive and apparently pointless furniture scratching, and
careful examination of the situation might reveal a sensitive individual
under stress. Theoretically, the tendency to respond to stress in this way
would run in families, and furniture clawing appears to do just that. It is
common knowledge that to avoid owning a compulsive scratcher, you should
select a kitten from parents who do not indulge in this behavior to excess.
Care should be exercised in interpreting this as evidence of a genetic
tendency for anxiety, however, as learning is known to be involved when it
comes to scratching. A careful analysis would have to be made before
definitive conclusions could be drawn about the various contributions of
nature and nurture, of temperament and learning, to the transmission of this
behavior from one generation to another. It would be an interesting study
and one that would point the way forward. Treatment of compulsive scratch
marking (if that's what it is) would involve minimizing environmental stress
such as intercat conflict, redirecting the scratching onto an acceptable
target, and perhaps in refractory cases the judicious use of
anxiety-reducing medication. This strategy reflects the influence of
treatments developed for another form of compulsive marking behavior,
compulsive urine marking.

Let's suppose for a moment that we are dealing not with a compulsive cat but
simply with one that periodically blows off steam by shredding a couple of
high-profile chairs around the house. This is not a cat for the
obsessive-compulsive disorder clinic, but merely one who needs to have its
energies channeled along more acceptable lines. This is where the scratching
post comes in, and scratching posts do work if you know something about how
to choose them and where to place them. The best teacher of the noble art of
scratching is the cat's own mother, but if she isn't around or isn't trained
to use a scratching post, that leaves it all up to us. The first rule is
that scratching posts should be tall enough for the cat to stretch up full
length and arch its back as it sinks its claws in. Also, at least one post
should be positioned close to your cat's normal resting area. It's typical
for a cat to want to have a good clawing stretch after a decent sleep. The
second rule is that scratching posts should be absolutely secure. Cats think
there's nothing worse than having the post wobble or fall over when they're
in the middle of a good stretch. The third rule is, the post has to be
covered with the right kind of stuff. Tightly wrapped, uninteresting carpet
is out, and burlap and other easily shreddable things are in. Cats prefer
vertically oriented fibers, as this orientation lends itself to shredding.
Many owners change a scratching post when it is old and tattered. This is
dead wrong, as shredding indicate frequent use and that is exactly what you
want. Half the fun cats experience from a scratching post derives from
getting their claws stuck in the material and leaving wispy threads as
testimony of their erstwhile presence. More than one post is usually
preferred, perhaps one for each high-traffic area of the house. Different
kinds of scratching posts will provide different challenges, so owners can
profitably get quite creative. A large log (with bark) is apparently lots of
fun and especially good for those conditioning functions. Scratching posts
should start out in front of previously scratch-marked locations or at least
in high-profile sites. It may be awkward for the humans to have to
circumnavigate an assortment of burlapwrapped posts in the center of living
areas, especially at night when the lights are out, but fear not, these
obstacles can be inched to more-convenient locations over time.

Sometimes a reluctant cat can be persuaded to start using a scratching post
by trickery. One of the tricks is to lace with catnip the fabric bound to
the post. It has been estimated that only a third of cats experience the
seductive effects of catnip (for the others, alternative olfactory
attractions could be devised), but the reason for this discrepancy remains
obscure. Partakers roll around in apparent ecstasy, salivating and looking
for all the world like a female in heat. Some people believe that the
response to catnip is sexual, but there are several strikes against this
proposal. A compelling one is that catnip elicits the same heatlike behavior
in both males and females. However, we now know sexual behaviors are not
exclusive for one sex or the other, just more likely in a particular sex, so
one cannot absolutely rule out this theory. It has also been suggested that
catnip evokes a predatory response, but that interpretation has been
challenged because there are responses shown by cats under the influence of
catnip that are not part of the cat's normal predatory behavioral
repertoire. It would seem counterproductive, for example, for a cat to
salivate its way toward an unsuspecting prey, pausing occasionally to roll
on its back and wriggle around on the ground. The prospective lunch may die
laughing, but that would be the cat's only hope. Whatever the correct
explanation for the effects of catnip, it appears to be a lot of fun for
cats and may even attract them to a desired location, such as a scratching
post, for instance.

While attracting your cat to the desired location for its scratching, it is
important simultaneously to deter the scratching of inappropriate sites,
such as your stereo speakers or the arm of your favorite chair. To do this
you can take advantage of the cat's normal aversion to aluminum foil or
plastic wrap by applying either material around target areas. For
difficult-to-wrap locations, aversive odors, such as citrus-scented sprays,
can be applied, often to good effect. The French behaviorist Dr. Pageat
believes that pheromone-containing oily secretions from the glands between
the cat's eyes and ears serve as an olfactory deterrent to scratching. The
message sent is "Already claimed-paws off."

If all of the above fails, there is a relatively new solution to furniture
scratching that works in some cases at least, the use of Soft Paws. These
soft plastic caps are simply glued onto the cat's claws, rendering them less
pointy and less likely to damage fabric. Some people are jubilant about the
success they have had with these faux nails. They come in several colors,
too, so your cat can sport a selection of fashionable colors while still
being able to enjoy a good, well-anchored stretch and some undetectable
scent-marking behavior. Soft Paws can be quite a surprise for an
unsuspecting veterinarian.

Another reason why cats scratch furniture excessively: The behavior can be
reinforced by conditioning. Getting attention for engaging in a behavior
will usually increase the frequency of that behavior.  A detailed account of
the behavior is needed to establish where and when it occurs, and what
precedes and what follows the cat's actions. Only with such attention to
fine detail can effective behavior modification programs be designed.  There
are many imaginative and conventional solutions that can be tried before
resorting to the travesty of amputation. To update an old saying, there's
more than one way to cure a cat.
ura166 - 13 Oct 2005 01:26 GMT
My intention for this letter was not to get simpithy but facts and
information. It seems to me that this procedure, which I understand you think
is cruel, is very common. I have never heard of a cat dying from it. I have
had cats declawed before and never experienced something like this from it.
All I am looking for is answers because it seems to me that the vet did
something wrong. Call it my fault if you want but I know of alot of people
that have had it done with no problems. Again, I don't want pity just
questions answered. I thought the procedure was as simple as having your
tonsels take out. Maybe I was wrong. Cutting a cats balls off isn't cruel but
declawing is?

>>You are disgusting,and by yelling at these people does not get your point
>>across besides that you are a immature a.shole. if u think decalwing is the
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
>http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com
No More Retail - 13 Oct 2005 01:40 GMT
Now you are being a troll  <plonk>
5cats - 13 Oct 2005 01:44 GMT
> All I am looking for is answers because it seems to me that the vet did
> something wrong.

Putting a cat under general anesthesia always carries some risk. I'm not
sure that anyone can tell you if the vet botched it or if your cat had an
underlying health problem that caused its' death.
I do fault the vet for not dissauding you from the operation in the first
place and for the (apparently) callous treatment you received afterwards.
Barrnabas Collins - 13 Oct 2005 19:36 GMT
>Putting a cat under general anesthesia always carries some risk. I'm not
>sure that anyone can tell you if the vet botched it or if your cat had an
>underlying health problem that caused its' death.
>I do fault the vet for not dissauding you from the operation in the first
>place and for the (apparently) callous treatment you received afterwards.
I'm not going to fault the vet for the events that occurred
afterwards.  There may have been legit reasons for why they
did what they did, they may have had no choice in the matter.

(Locally our vets don't have ambulances for cats,   the only
ambulances are owned and opertaed by the MSPCA a good
distance away and often take hours to get to a particular call.)

As far as "why didn't they transport her right away?:
Probably because they had no ambulance available.
(I'm an EMT, it is illegal here to transport a patient
(any patient) by means other than ambulance.  Yeah
I probably could transport them by my car or other means
but i'd get my pants sued off if something went wrong.

I would further add a number of years ago I had a friend
who drove an ambulance for the MSPCA out of Angell
Memorial Hospital.  The response time was terrible,
often many hours would pass.   They had one ambulance
serving basically serving the eastern part of the state.
(100+ towns.)  

(*****Want to change this?  Then donate a few
hundred thousand dollars to your local  animal
hospital so they can buy an ambulance, hire
personnel to run it, and staff it with enough
personnel.  Until then maybe we should be
less eager to jump all over the vet.)

Again I would emphasize I have no
indication in this case the vet did anything
wrong.  (Maybe the only thing they did wrong
was not having an ambulance standing by
when needed.   But then I can count on
one  finger the number of vets/animal
hospitals/etc. that have an ambulance
available.  
------------------------------------------

http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com
No More Retail - 13 Oct 2005 16:57 GMT
1. Your female dog or cat will live a longer, healthier life.
Spaying-the removal of the ovaries and uterus-is a veterinary procedure
performed under general anesthesia that usually requires minimal
hospitalization. Spaying a female cat or dog helps prevent pyometra
(pus-filled uterus) and breast cancer. Treatment of pyometra requires
hospitalization, intravenous fluids and antibiotics. Breast cancer can be
fatal in about 50 percent of female dogs and in 90 percent of female cats.
Spaying your pet before her first heat offers the best protection from these
diseases.

2.  There are major health benefits for your male animal companion, too.
Besides preventing unwanted litters, neutering your male dog or cat-the
surgical removal of the testicles-prevents testicular cancer and prostate
disease, if done before six months of age.

3. Your spayed female won't go into heat.
While cycles can vary greatly, female felines usually go into heat four to
five days every three weeks during breeding season. In an effort to
advertise for mates, they'll yowl and urinate more frequently-sometimes all
over the house. Unspayed female dogs generally have a bloody discharge for
about a week, and can conceive for another week or so.

4. You male dog won't need to roam away from home.
An intact male in search of a mate will do just about anything to get one!
That includes digging his way under the fence and making like Houdini to
escape from the house. And once he's free to roam, he risks injury in
traffic and fights with other males.

5. .and he will be much better behaved to boot!
Neutered cats and dogs focus their attention on their human families. On the
other hand, unneutered dogs and cats may mark their territory by spraying
strong-smelling urine all over the house. Indoors, male dogs may embarrass
you by mounting on furniture and human legs when stimulated. And FYI, a
neutered dog protects his home and family just as well as unneutered
dog--and many aggression problems can be avoided by early neutering.

6. Spaying or neutering will NOT make your pet fat.
It's no use to use that old excuse! Lack of exercise and overfeeding will
cause your pet to pack on the extra pounds-not neutering. Your pet will
remain fit and trim as long as you continue to provide exercise and monitor
food intake.

7. Spaying or neutering is highly cost-effective.
The cost of your pet's spay or neuter surgery is a lot less than the cost of
having and caring for a litter. It also beats the cost of treatment when
your unneutered tom escapes and gets into fights with neighborhood strays.or
the cost of cleaning the carpet that your unspayed female keeps mistaking
for her litter box, or the cost of.well, you get the idea!

8. It's good for the community.
Stray animals pose real problems in many parts of the country. They can prey
on wildlife, cause vehicular accidents, damage the local fauna and scare
children.

9. Your pet doesn't need to have a litter for your children to witness the
miracle of birth.
We've heard this one a lot. But you know what? Letting your pet produce
offspring you have no intention of keeping teaches your children
irresponsibility. Anyone who has seen an animal euthanized in a shelter for
lack of a home knows the trust behind this dangerous myth. There are
countless books and videos available to teach your children about birth in a
responsible manner.

10. It packs a powerful punch in the fight against pet overpopulation.
Millions of cats and dogs of all ages and breeds are euthanized annually or
suffer as strays. These high numbers are the result of unwanted, unplanned
litters that could have been prevented by spaying or neutering.
Barrnabas Collins - 13 Oct 2005 19:14 GMT
>All I am looking for is answers because it seems to me that the vet did
>something wrong.
After my experience with a cat who I found dead one morning i'm not
ready to say the vet did anything wrong.   May have been just a bad
heart that would have killed the cat anyways while it was sleeping
or doing something else.  Yes it is a tragedy the cat died but
i'm not convinced the vet did anything wrong.

>Call it my fault if you want but I know of alot of people
>that have had it done with no problems. Again, I don't want pity just
>questions answered. I thought the procedure was as simple as having your
>tonsels take out. Maybe I was wrong. Cutting a cats balls off isn't cruel but
>declawing is?
You could compare declawing to chopping off a finger.   And yes there
are those who say it is cruel and is mistreatment to spay/neuter
a cat.  

Yes ideally I would like to not have a cat spayed/neutered but
I also don't want a few thousand unwanted cats desperately looking
for homes.   So I take the lesser of two evils and get the cat spayed/
neutered.

http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/why_you_should_spay_or_neuter_your_pet.html

So yeah comes down to a trade off......yeah it may be cruel to declaw
the cat but if you don't declaw the cat your landlord will say no cat
and the cat will be homeless in a shelter with a death sentence if
it isn't adopted in 30 days.  

I would add around here the #1 reason for cats being
turned into the shelter is the landlord won't allow it.   So maybe
instead of bashing pet owners here maybe you should turn your
powers of persuasion to the landlords who insist on it.  Also maybe
if you don't want to declaw a cat invent a better mouse
trap......inevent a better way to allow the cat to keep it's claws
and allows cat owners to keep their blood inside of their
body where it belongs.

I would add about 20+ years ago I had a cat who I had to
have declawed because a roommate had arms that the
cat had shredded to peices.   No matter what I could not get
the cat to not scratch.    

>>>You are disgusting,and by yelling at these people does not get your point
>>>across besides that you are a immature a.shole. if u think decalwing is the
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>>
>>http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------

http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com
zuzu22@webtv.net - 14 Oct 2005 03:18 GMT
>I would mention that as bad as
>declawing is it's very low on the abuse
>scale.

So are you justifying abuse? It sure sounds like it. A cat that is
having it's paws mutilated for owner convenience would disagree that
it's "low" on the scale. Did you know that partial digital amputation
has been used to torture prisoners of war?  If someone were to forcibly
amputate the first joint of all of your fingers without your consent,
then force you to walk on your mutilated hands, bearing your full
weight, would you be so quick to minimize what had just been done to
you? If someone did it to your wife would you be forgiving since you
consider such a form of abuse to be "low on the scale"?
Abuse is abuse is abuse and the victim of such will suffer regardless
and is unlikely to care how others "grade" it.

Megan

                                   
Signature


"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray


ura166 - 12 Oct 2005 22:09 GMT
The point to posting this message was to find out if anyone has answers or
has heard of this happening. If I wanted to hear from three year olds I would
have asked my cousins. U r lucky I don't know u or I would stomp your face in.
Call my girlfriend a bitch again and we can take care of this man to child.
Get it. If u don't have something that can help us, read someone elses
messages.

>> Hello,
>>  
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>of the worst kind. It is you and your bitch who are responsible for that cat's death.
>No one else is. You loved them very much?! You are sick. f.ck you.
No More Retail - 12 Oct 2005 22:12 GMT
Oh boy  more trolls
No More Retail - 12 Oct 2005 22:14 GMT
Considering you replied to my message and not the correct one.    Which is
easy to do since on that news reader it has reply to message on the post

I live in Orlando, Florida  book a flight I would met you  even though it
was not me that called her that
ura166 - 12 Oct 2005 22:48 GMT
Well I didn't reply to you.  If you look after my message it has the message
I reply to, 223rem not No more retail

>Considering you replied to my message and not the correct one.    Which is
>easy to do since on that news reader it has reply to message on the post
>
>I live in Orlando, Florida  book a flight I would met you  even though it
>was not me that called her that
223rem - 12 Oct 2005 23:23 GMT
> The point to posting this message was to find out if anyone has answers or
> has heard of this happening. If I wanted to hear from three year olds I would
> have asked my cousins. U r lucky I don't know u or I would stomp your face in.
> Call my girlfriend a bitch again and we can take care of this man to child.
> Get it. If u don't have something that can help us, read someone elses
> messages.

The only thing that can help you and your skank is to be banned for life
from owning any pets.
Niel Humphreys - 13 Oct 2005 08:47 GMT
> The point to posting this message was to find out if anyone has answers or
> has heard of this happening. If I wanted to hear from three year olds I
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Get it. If u don't have something that can help us, read someone elses
> messages.

Your girlfriend is a mutiliating bitch and you are a top posting fuckwit
with no remorse for causing the death of your poor innocent cat. You should
not be permitted to keep pets, you are the lowest for of life. (assuming
you're not just trolling for attention)
Signature


Niel H

223rem - 14 Oct 2005 07:21 GMT
> Call my girlfriend a bitch again and we can take care of this man to child.

Oh I'm sorry, I forgot. Your girlfriend (if you have one) can only
be a bitch. So are you.
Barrnabas Collins - 12 Oct 2005 23:22 GMT
>"Declaw taken care of". You and your girlfriend are monsters, animal abusers
>of the worst kind. It is you and your bitch who are responsible for that cat's death.
>No one else is. You loved them very much?! You are sick. f.ck you.
That may be a bit harsh.   Leaving aside the declaw issue I would add
this may well have happened even if the cat had not been declawed.  

You do realize some cats have stuff like heart problems?
------------------------------------------

http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com
Niel Humphreys - 12 Oct 2005 12:30 GMT
> Hello,
>
> On Friday October 7, 2005, we took Cosmo to the Community Pet Care clinic
> to
> have her declaw taken care of.

Mutilating scum.
Barrnabas Collins - 12 Oct 2005 23:13 GMT
I won't get into the declawing issue....i'm sure others will take up
that chalenge.

One thing I would add is I had a cat who died a number of years ago.
I had gotten up at about 3 in the morning to do my daily Tai Chi when
I noticed that cat was still.....too still.  Turned out she died.  

Out of concern for the other cats in the household I had an
autopsy done.   Results negative.   What the vet believes happened
was the cat had a heart problem.   Also this kitten never had the
sense to slow down when she got tired.  

Prior to this we had no warning of any problems except that this
cat would not rest on her own.   The cat needed some encouragement
to stop and rest.   She didn't have the sense to do it on her own.
------------------------------------------

http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com
Kiran - 12 Oct 2005 23:14 GMT
: My name is James.
: On Friday October 7, 2005, we took Cosmo to the Community Pet Care
: clinic to have her Leukemia shot and declaw taken care of. Cosmo was
: only thirteen months old. The vet "SAID" everything went fine with the
: operation. While Cosmo was in recovery, she stopped breathing and her
: heart stopped.

James,

Let me make it short and simple for you. You will get no sympathy on
this board. That is because most of us know that declawing is a cruel
inhumane act, extremely painful and disabling, equivalent of amputating
your fingers and toes---even if the surgery had gone picture perfect.

Like all surgeries, you should have researched this before, ask our
opinions first. A five minute google research would have warned you.

Most people here will treat you as they would a murderer. I realize
that greedy vets are part of the story but the cat belonged to you, was
your responsibility.

It serves no purpose to call you and your girlfriend names, but the
truth remains you two should have shown greater responsibility and
maturity. I hope you will learn your lesson, since that's all you can
salvage out of Cosmo's life now, and be more responsible in future.

Make the best of this tragedy, and fighting with others and pretending
you ar enot at fault is hardly the way.

Never declaw a cat. For no reason, no ifs and buts. If your furniture
etc are that precious, and you don't know and can't be bothered with
how to deal with cats, then don't get cats. If you want the company of
a living being, then make a few adjustments in your life accordingly.

K.
No More Retail - 12 Oct 2005 23:18 GMT
Well said Kiran
Ajanta - 12 Oct 2005 23:18 GMT
: We believe Cosmo should have a voice here. We don't want Cosmo to
: die for nothing. She DESERVES BETTER than that.

My heart goes out to the poor cat. She deserved better than you and
your girlfriend. Morons. I would love to chop the fingers off the two
of you and see how you feel.
 
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