Cat Forum / General Topics / October 2005
Looking for help
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ura166 - 12 Oct 2005 02:33 GMT Hello, My name is James. My girlfriend and I adopted a cat from the Ten Lives Club. His name was Vincent. We changed his name to Politan. Politan is doing well. We also adopted another cat through Tenth Chance. We named her Cosmo. Cosmo was doing great. Her and Politan were our children. We loved them very much. On Friday October 7, 2005, we took Cosmo to the Community Pet Care clinic to have her Leukemia shot and declaw taken care of. Cosmo was only thirteen months old. The vet "SAID" everything went fine with the operation. While Cosmo was in recovery, she stopped breathing and her heart stopped. The vet had to give her CPR and a shot of Epinephrine. Cosmo started breathing again but who knows how long she wasn't. The technician at Community Pet Care called my girlfriend and told her what happened. The tech suggested we take her to Orchard Park Vetinary Clinic for overnight observation. If this was so critical, why didn’t they transport her right away? We picked Cosmo up around 5:00 pm and took her there with no assistance from Community Pet Care. Her temperature kept dropping and they did not give us anything to help in transporting her like hot water bottles. They just let us take her in a towel in the freezing rain. No one at Community Pet Care knows what happened or would give us any answers. Orchard Park kept her overnight and we called every hour to check on her. Each time there was no improvement. They believed she was blind and didn't know if she would ever see again but made us believe she would still come home. My girlfriend went to see Cosmo on Saturday October 8, 2005. The vet said that Cosmos brain was swelling. Cosmo did not look good at all. She was obviously out of it due to all the meds she was on. My girlfriend went home after being with Cosmo for an hour and a half. At 1:00 pm, the vet called and said Cosmo had passed away. Still, no one has any answers for us. We took Cosmo to have a simple procedure done and now we have to live with wondering what happened to our child. Now we are without our child and Politan is lost without his sister. You have no idea what it is like to watch him search for his sister when she is not coming home. We feel that Orchard Park Vetinary Clinic did everything they could to save Cosmo. We also believe that Community Pet Care did something wrong. It was a simple procedure that is done everyday. The vet at Orchard Park Vetinary Clinic said that she has not seen anything like this in at least ten years. We have talked to people from Ten Lives Club and Tenth Chance. Everyone said that they have not heard of this happening and it should not have happened. The reason for this letter is asking for some help. We would like everyone to take Community Pet Care off of their list of Vetinarians that people go to. Who knows what other kinds of problems and suffering they have caused other animals and their families. The only reason we took Cosmo there is because they were on the list that we had to take Politan there for neutering. We would also like you to spread the word about this place and put our story out there so others don't have to experience what we are going through. Also, if there is any kind of information anyone can share with us we would appreciate it. We are looking for ANYTHING to help us answer our questions. Cosmo was not just a cat, she was our first born. She did nothing to deserve what has happened to her. She only lived a short life. Thank you for your time. If anyone can help us find some answers and make those responsible pay for what they have done it would be greatly appreciated. We believe Cosmo should have a voice here. We don't want Cosmo to die for nothing. She DESERVES BETTER than that. Sincerely, James N. race6martin@hotmail.com Sarah W. ura166@aol.com Cosmo
No More Retail - 12 Oct 2005 03:20 GMT Sorry for your loss but things like this happen when unnecessary surgeries are preformed on animals
1) simple procedure or not people die everyday for simple procedures preformed everyday at hospitals unfortunately it is a fact of life
2) declawing is a unnecessary surgery you probably won't get any symphony from this group
3) if you believe that they did something wrong a lawyer needs to be involved
4) have you called the vets in the area to see if this is a problem if so contact www.hsus.org or the local chapter of the SPCA and do something about it
5) if you find problems call the media
and didn't someone just post about there cat passing on from being declawed
> Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] > Sarah W. ura166@aol.com > Cosmo Barrnabas Collins - 12 Oct 2005 23:18 GMT >2) declawing is a unnecessary surgery you probably won't get any symphony >from this group I would add that often declawing is done at the same time as spaying/neutering and spaying/neutering is a necessary procedure.
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http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com
Monique - 16 Oct 2005 09:41 GMT "Barrnabas Collins" <>>2) declawing is a unnecessary surgery you probably won't get any symphony
>>from this group > I would add that often declawing is done at the same time as > spaying/neutering and spaying/neutering is a necessary > procedure. All four of my cats went in for desexing recently and declawing wasn't even mentioned.
223rem - 12 Oct 2005 04:30 GMT > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > We don't want Cosmo to die for > nothing. She DESERVES BETTER than that. Lets assume you're not trolling.
"Declaw taken care of". You and your girlfriend are monsters, animal abusers of the worst kind. It is you and your bitch who are responsible for that cat's death. No one else is. You loved them very much?! You are sick. f.ck you.
Katie - 12 Oct 2005 17:33 GMT You are disgusting,and by yelling at these people does not get your point across besides that you are a immature a.shole. if u think decalwing is the worst kind of animal abuse you are sadly mistaken and you should watch aminal cops on the animal planet and see some real abuse. Open your mind and understand that people who declaw their cats are not monsters but people who are ignorant are!
>> Hello, >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >of the worst kind. It is you and your bitch who are responsible for that cat's death. >No one else is. You loved them very much?! You are sick. f.ck you. 223rem - 12 Oct 2005 18:26 GMT > You are disgusting,and by yelling at these people does not get your point > across besides that you are a immature a.shole. if u think decalwing is the > worst kind of animal abuse you are sadly mistaken and you should watch aminal > cops on the animal planet and see some real abuse. Declawing is not real abuse?
> Open your mind and > understand that people who declaw their cats are not monsters but people who > are ignorant are! No, I cant "open my mind" to the benefits of declawing.
No More Retail - 12 Oct 2005 18:34 GMT Real abuse huh have you ever been present to a declawing the cats while even under anesthesia cry out that is with a tube down their throat and everything. Than for several weeks up to months it takes a cat to recover if that cat recovers. It may be done by ignorant people but it real funny how ignorant people are the ones that check out the best options for a car, go get second opinions from another doctor, call around the get the best deal on an item or internet for everything else except this.
And don't talk to me about abuse I volunteer in a shelter and help my vet friend out If I was to have documented all the abuse I have seen over the years the Faces of death series would have a whole another series dedicated just to animals
Barrnabas Collins - 12 Oct 2005 23:59 GMT >You are disgusting,and by yelling at these people does not get your point >across besides that you are a immature a.shole. if u think decalwing is the >worst kind of animal abuse you are sadly mistaken and you should watch aminal >cops on the animal planet and see some real abuse. Open your mind and >understand that people who declaw their cats are not monsters but people who >are ignorant are! I would mention that as bad as declawing is it's very low on the abuse scale.
There are much worse things to do to animals, or hadn't some of you noticed that? Between kids who put a dog on an active railroad track to dog fighting, to dragging dogs behind a pick up truck etc. there are some terrirble things done to animals that are a heck of a lot worse than declawing. And what you see on Animal Planet is very mild compared to alot of the animal abuse that occurs.
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http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com
223rem - 13 Oct 2005 00:16 GMT > I would mention that as bad as declawing is it's very low on the abuse > scale. That's true, but what gets me is that the lowlifes that practice it claim to be cat lovers.
Barrnabas Collins - 13 Oct 2005 18:49 GMT >> I would mention that as bad as declawing is it's very low on the abuse >> scale. > >That's true, but what gets me is that the lowlifes that practice it >claim to be cat lovers. But you can carry the cat lovers thing too far. You realize tha according to some of the animal lovers at PETA you're a terrible person if you "imprison" a cat inside your house as a pet? So should we listen to them and throw every cat owner in jail for imprisoning their cat/dog?
There some animal lovers who would say you're cruel if you have your cat spayed/neutered? One of the problems with cruelty to animals is whose definition are you going to go with?
There are those at Peta who want to stop calling you a pet owner and call you a pet "guardian." Where will it end?
BTW, i've got a new kitten that is now about a little over five weeks old. The battle over his claws is a loosing battle right now. I don't want to declaw him but you know what? I also don't want to be drippign blood all over the place. ------------------------------------------
http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com
223rem - 13 Oct 2005 18:53 GMT > BTW, i've got a new kitten that is now about a little over > five weeks old. The battle over his claws is a loosing > battle right now. I don't want to declaw him but you know what? > I also don't want to be drippign blood all over the place. Dripping blood?! Do you have haemophilia? Or maybe that's a tiger cub or something?
Why dont you give it to someone else?
No More Retail - 13 Oct 2005 21:45 GMT Do you realize that alot of PETA members need to be on medication and hospitalized they one that are like that are the extreme activist. Personally PETA does a lot of good but they definitely need to learn where and when to put there nose in they cause just as many problems as the do good
It sounds like you need to take a class on cat training if you are having problems stopping the kitten from scratching. they offer them at most major pet store chains. If your vet drew blood from the kittens toe nail sound like either a accident or a stupid vet if so time to change vets.
Last time one of my cats got a hold of me to draw blood he got a blast of water from a squirt gun ended that problem after one or two blast
Understanding the Motivation of the Scratching Behavior
Dr. Nicholas Dodman, Professor of Behavioral Pharmacology, Director of the Behavior Clinic Tufts University School of Veterinary Medicine
If you make the moral decision to join the ranks of the claw conservatives, what do you do when your cat starts tearing up your furniture? Are there things you can do to circumvent the problem, or do you just have to lock your furniture away behind closed doors? The answers are yes, there are, and no, you don't have to, but to make inroads on this thorny problem, it helps to understand the motivation of the scratching behavior.
The simple explanation that furniture clawing is primarily conducted to sharpen the claws just is not true. To use an analogy, why would dragging a bunch of fishhooks across an armchair do anything to improve the sharpness of their barbs? Furniture clawing does not sharpen the claws; it conditions them by exercising muscles and helping to shuck off dead nail husks (which may be found on the ground beneath a well-used scratching site). Another reason why cats stretch up and sink their claws into furniture is that it feels good. We all enjoy a good stretch, especially after a nap. But the story doesn't end there. Scratching and clawing at various objects is also a form of visual and olfactory marking behavior. The visual marking aspect is easy to appreciate. The mark says, "Garfield was here." Remember at school when all the property was inscribed with hieroglyphics such as "This desk belongs to John Smith"? It's the same principle. Because of this, claw marks are always strategically positioned in a highly visible location, such as the arm of a couch facing the door (not the one facing the wall).
The olfactory component of scratching adds a more subtle component to this marking behavior. Scent marking to a cat is like writing to a person, conveying a message long after the sender has gone. Pheromonal odors released from scent glands in the paws leave no doubt in another feline mind as to exactly who Garfield was and probably what he was thinking when he last passed by. It's as if the visual cue were a signpost directing attention to the more detailed message, This is one explanation of why declawed cats continue to go through the motions of furniture scratching when they have no claws and no visible fruits of their labor. Another explanation for the vacuous scratching of such cats is that they are ritualistically acting out behavior that is hardwired into their neural circuits. In other words, they keep doing it even when there is no apparent reason to do so, because they feel compelled.
As scratching has a marking function, and marking is intensified by stress, the frequency of scratching should increase as tensions build, and this does indeed appear to be the case. In one situation , a cat began to scratch the edge of an open door to the living room when a new cat was introduced to the home. This territorial response mirrors what happens with urine marking, too. Taking things a little further, it should be possible for a naturalistic behavior such as scratching to be expressed compulsively. The result would be excessive and apparently pointless furniture scratching, and careful examination of the situation might reveal a sensitive individual under stress. Theoretically, the tendency to respond to stress in this way would run in families, and furniture clawing appears to do just that. It is common knowledge that to avoid owning a compulsive scratcher, you should select a kitten from parents who do not indulge in this behavior to excess. Care should be exercised in interpreting this as evidence of a genetic tendency for anxiety, however, as learning is known to be involved when it comes to scratching. A careful analysis would have to be made before definitive conclusions could be drawn about the various contributions of nature and nurture, of temperament and learning, to the transmission of this behavior from one generation to another. It would be an interesting study and one that would point the way forward. Treatment of compulsive scratch marking (if that's what it is) would involve minimizing environmental stress such as intercat conflict, redirecting the scratching onto an acceptable target, and perhaps in refractory cases the judicious use of anxiety-reducing medication. This strategy reflects the influence of treatments developed for another form of compulsive marking behavior, compulsive urine marking.
Let's suppose for a moment that we are dealing not with a compulsive cat but simply with one that periodically blows off steam by shredding a couple of high-profile chairs around the house. This is not a cat for the obsessive-compulsive disorder clinic, but merely one who needs to have its energies channeled along more acceptable lines. This is where the scratching post comes in, and scratching posts do work if you know something about how to choose them and where to place them. The best teacher of the noble art of scratching is the cat's own mother, but if she isn't around or isn't trained to use a scratching post, that leaves it all up to us. The first rule is that scratching posts should be tall enough for the cat to stretch up full length and arch its back as it sinks its claws in. Also, at least one post should be positioned close to your cat's normal resting area. It's typical for a cat to want to have a good clawing stretch after a decent sleep. The second rule is that scratching posts should be absolutely secure. Cats think there's nothing worse than having the post wobble or fall over when they're in the middle of a good stretch. The third rule is, the post has to be covered with the right kind of stuff. Tightly wrapped, uninteresting carpet is out, and burlap and other easily shreddable things are in. Cats prefer vertically oriented fibers, as this orientation lends itself to shredding. Many owners change a scratching post when it is old and tattered. This is dead wrong, as shredding indicate frequent use and that is exactly what you want. Half the fun cats experience from a scratching post derives from getting their claws stuck in the material and leaving wispy threads as testimony of their erstwhile presence. More than one post is usually preferred, perhaps one for each high-traffic area of the house. Different kinds of scratching posts will provide different challenges, so owners can profitably get quite creative. A large log (with bark) is apparently lots of fun and especially good for those conditioning functions. Scratching posts should start out in front of previously scratch-marked locations or at least in high-profile sites. It may be awkward for the humans to have to circumnavigate an assortment of burlapwrapped posts in the center of living areas, especially at night when the lights are out, but fear not, these obstacles can be inched to more-convenient locations over time.
Sometimes a reluctant cat can be persuaded to start using a scratching post by trickery. One of the tricks is to lace with catnip the fabric bound to the post. It has been estimated that only a third of cats experience the seductive effects of catnip (for the others, alternative olfactory attractions could be devised), but the reason for this discrepancy remains obscure. Partakers roll around in apparent ecstasy, salivating and looking for all the world like a female in heat. Some people believe that the response to catnip is sexual, but there are several strikes against this proposal. A compelling one is that catnip elicits the same heatlike behavior in both males and females. However, we now know sexual behaviors are not exclusive for one sex or the other, just more likely in a particular sex, so one cannot absolutely rule out this theory. It has also been suggested that catnip evokes a predatory response, but that interpretation has been challenged because there are responses shown by cats under the influence of catnip that are not part of the cat's normal predatory behavioral repertoire. It would seem counterproductive, for example, for a cat to salivate its way toward an unsuspecting prey, pausing occasionally to roll on its back and wriggle around on the ground. The prospective lunch may die laughing, but that would be the cat's only hope. Whatever the correct explanation for the effects of catnip, it appears to be a lot of fun for cats and may even attract them to a desired location, such as a scratching post, for instance.
While attracting your cat to the desired location for its scratching, it is important simultaneously to deter the scratching of inappropriate sites, such as your stereo speakers or the arm of your favorite chair. To do this you can take advantage of the cat's normal aversion to aluminum foil or plastic wrap by applying either material around target areas. For difficult-to-wrap locations, aversive odors, such as citrus-scented sprays, can be applied, often to good effect. The French behaviorist Dr. Pageat believes that pheromone-containing oily secretions from the glands between the cat's eyes and ears serve as an olfactory deterrent to scratching. The message sent is "Already claimed-paws off."
If all of the above fails, there is a relatively new solution to furniture scratching that works in some cases at least, the use of Soft Paws. These soft plastic caps are simply glued onto the cat's claws, rendering them less pointy and less likely to damage fabric. Some people are jubilant about the success they have had with these faux nails. They come in several colors, too, so your cat can sport a selection of fashionable colors while still being able to enjoy a good, well-anchored stretch and some undetectable scent-marking behavior. Soft Paws can be quite a surprise for an unsuspecting veterinarian.
Another reason why cats scratch furniture excessively: The behavior can be reinforced by conditioning. Getting attention for engaging in a behavior will usually increase the frequency of that behavior. A detailed account of the behavior is needed to establish where and when it occurs, and what precedes and what follows the cat's actions. Only with such attention to fine detail can effective behavior modification programs be designed. There are many imaginative and conventional solutions that can be tried before resorting to the travesty of amputation. To update an old saying, there's more than one way to cure a cat.
ura166 - 13 Oct 2005 01:26 GMT My intention for this letter was not to get simpithy but facts and information. It seems to me that this procedure, which I understand you think is cruel, is very common. I have never heard of a cat dying from it. I have had cats declawed before and never experienced something like this from it. All I am looking for is answers because it seems to me that the vet did something wrong. Call it my fault if you want but I know of alot of people that have had it done with no problems. Again, I don't want pity just questions answered. I thought the procedure was as simple as having your tonsels take out. Maybe I was wrong. Cutting a cats balls off isn't cruel but declawing is?
>>You are disgusting,and by yelling at these people does not get your point >>across besides that you are a immature a.shole. if u think decalwing is the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com No More Retail - 13 Oct 2005 01:40 GMT Now you are being a troll <plonk>
5cats - 13 Oct 2005 01:44 GMT > All I am looking for is answers because it seems to me that the vet did > something wrong. Putting a cat under general anesthesia always carries some risk. I'm not sure that anyone can tell you if the vet botched it or if your cat had an underlying health problem that caused its' death. I do fault the vet for not dissauding you from the operation in the first place and for the (apparently) callous treatment you received afterwards.
Barrnabas Collins - 13 Oct 2005 19:36 GMT >Putting a cat under general anesthesia always carries some risk. I'm not >sure that anyone can tell you if the vet botched it or if your cat had an >underlying health problem that caused its' death. >I do fault the vet for not dissauding you from the operation in the first >place and for the (apparently) callous treatment you received afterwards. I'm not going to fault the vet for the events that occurred afterwards. There may have been legit reasons for why they did what they did, they may have had no choice in the matter.
(Locally our vets don't have ambulances for cats, the only ambulances are owned and opertaed by the MSPCA a good distance away and often take hours to get to a particular call.)
As far as "why didn't they transport her right away?: Probably because they had no ambulance available. (I'm an EMT, it is illegal here to transport a patient (any patient) by means other than ambulance. Yeah I probably could transport them by my car or other means but i'd get my pants sued off if something went wrong.
I would further add a number of years ago I had a friend who drove an ambulance for the MSPCA out of Angell Memorial Hospital. The response time was terrible, often many hours would pass. They had one ambulance serving basically serving the eastern part of the state. (100+ towns.)
(*****Want to change this? Then donate a few hundred thousand dollars to your local animal hospital so they can buy an ambulance, hire personnel to run it, and staff it with enough personnel. Until then maybe we should be less eager to jump all over the vet.)
Again I would emphasize I have no indication in this case the vet did anything wrong. (Maybe the only thing they did wrong was not having an ambulance standing by when needed. But then I can count on one finger the number of vets/animal hospitals/etc. that have an ambulance available. ------------------------------------------
http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com
No More Retail - 13 Oct 2005 16:57 GMT 1. Your female dog or cat will live a longer, healthier life. Spaying-the removal of the ovaries and uterus-is a veterinary procedure performed under general anesthesia that usually requires minimal hospitalization. Spaying a female cat or dog helps prevent pyometra (pus-filled uterus) and breast cancer. Treatment of pyometra requires hospitalization, intravenous fluids and antibiotics. Breast cancer can be fatal in about 50 percent of female dogs and in 90 percent of female cats. Spaying your pet before her first heat offers the best protection from these diseases.
2. There are major health benefits for your male animal companion, too. Besides preventing unwanted litters, neutering your male dog or cat-the surgical removal of the testicles-prevents testicular cancer and prostate disease, if done before six months of age.
3. Your spayed female won't go into heat. While cycles can vary greatly, female felines usually go into heat four to five days every three weeks during breeding season. In an effort to advertise for mates, they'll yowl and urinate more frequently-sometimes all over the house. Unspayed female dogs generally have a bloody discharge for about a week, and can conceive for another week or so.
4. You male dog won't need to roam away from home. An intact male in search of a mate will do just about anything to get one! That includes digging his way under the fence and making like Houdini to escape from the house. And once he's free to roam, he risks injury in traffic and fights with other males.
5. .and he will be much better behaved to boot! Neutered cats and dogs focus their attention on their human families. On the other hand, unneutered dogs and cats may mark their territory by spraying strong-smelling urine all over the house. Indoors, male dogs may embarrass you by mounting on furniture and human legs when stimulated. And FYI, a neutered dog protects his home and family just as well as unneutered dog--and many aggression problems can be avoided by early neutering.
6. Spaying or neutering will NOT make your pet fat. It's no use to use that old excuse! Lack of exercise and overfeeding will cause your pet to pack on the extra pounds-not neutering. Your pet will remain fit and trim as long as you continue to provide exercise and monitor food intake.
7. Spaying or neutering is highly cost-effective. The cost of your pet's spay or neuter surgery is a lot less than the cost of having and caring for a litter. It also beats the cost of treatment when your unneutered tom escapes and gets into fights with neighborhood strays.or the cost of cleaning the carpet that your unspayed female keeps mistaking for her litter box, or the cost of.well, you get the idea!
8. It's good for the community. Stray animals pose real problems in many parts of the country. They can prey on wildlife, cause vehicular accidents, damage the local fauna and scare children.
9. Your pet doesn't need to have a litter for your children to witness the miracle of birth. We've heard this one a lot. But you know what? Letting your pet produce offspring you have no intention of keeping teaches your children irresponsibility. Anyone who has seen an animal euthanized in a shelter for lack of a home knows the trust behind this dangerous myth. There are countless books and videos available to teach your children about birth in a responsible manner.
10. It packs a powerful punch in the fight against pet overpopulation. Millions of cats and dogs of all ages and breeds are euthanized annually or suffer as strays. These high numbers are the result of unwanted, unplanned litters that could have been prevented by spaying or neutering.
Barrnabas Collins - 13 Oct 2005 19:14 GMT >All I am looking for is answers because it seems to me that the vet did >something wrong. After my experience with a cat who I found dead one morning i'm not ready to say the vet did anything wrong. May have been just a bad heart that would have killed the cat anyways while it was sleeping or doing something else. Yes it is a tragedy the cat died but i'm not convinced the vet did anything wrong.
>Call it my fault if you want but I know of alot of people >that have had it done with no problems. Again, I don't want pity just >questions answered. I thought the procedure was as simple as having your >tonsels take out. Maybe I was wrong. Cutting a cats balls off isn't cruel but >declawing is? You could compare declawing to chopping off a finger. And yes there are those who say it is cruel and is mistreatment to spay/neuter a cat.
Yes ideally I would like to not have a cat spayed/neutered but I also don't want a few thousand unwanted cats desperately looking for homes. So I take the lesser of two evils and get the cat spayed/ neutered.
http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/why_you_should_spay_or_neuter_your_pet.html
So yeah comes down to a trade off......yeah it may be cruel to declaw the cat but if you don't declaw the cat your landlord will say no cat and the cat will be homeless in a shelter with a death sentence if it isn't adopted in 30 days.
I would add around here the #1 reason for cats being turned into the shelter is the landlord won't allow it. So maybe instead of bashing pet owners here maybe you should turn your powers of persuasion to the landlords who insist on it. Also maybe if you don't want to declaw a cat invent a better mouse trap......inevent a better way to allow the cat to keep it's claws and allows cat owners to keep their blood inside of their body where it belongs.
I would add about 20+ years ago I had a cat who I had to have declawed because a roommate had arms that the cat had shredded to peices. No matter what I could not get the cat to not scratch.
>>>You are disgusting,and by yelling at these people does not get your point >>>across besides that you are a immature a.shole. if u think decalwing is the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> >>http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------
http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com
zuzu22@webtv.net - 14 Oct 2005 03:18 GMT >I would mention that as bad as >declawing is it's very low on the abuse >scale. So are you justifying abuse? It sure sounds like it. A cat that is having it's paws mutilated for owner convenience would disagree that it's "low" on the scale. Did you know that partial digital amputation has been used to torture prisoners of war? If someone were to forcibly amputate the first joint of all of your fingers without your consent, then force you to walk on your mutilated hands, bearing your full weight, would you be so quick to minimize what had just been done to you? If someone did it to your wife would you be forgiving since you consider such a form of abuse to be "low on the scale"? Abuse is abuse is abuse and the victim of such will suffer regardless and is unlikely to care how others "grade" it.
Megan
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com
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"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way."
- W.H. Murray
ura166 - 12 Oct 2005 22:09 GMT The point to posting this message was to find out if anyone has answers or has heard of this happening. If I wanted to hear from three year olds I would have asked my cousins. U r lucky I don't know u or I would stomp your face in. Call my girlfriend a bitch again and we can take care of this man to child. Get it. If u don't have something that can help us, read someone elses messages.
>> Hello, >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >of the worst kind. It is you and your bitch who are responsible for that cat's death. >No one else is. You loved them very much?! You are sick. f.ck you. No More Retail - 12 Oct 2005 22:12 GMT Oh boy more trolls
No More Retail - 12 Oct 2005 22:14 GMT Considering you replied to my message and not the correct one. Which is easy to do since on that news reader it has reply to message on the post
I live in Orlando, Florida book a flight I would met you even though it was not me that called her that
ura166 - 12 Oct 2005 22:48 GMT Well I didn't reply to you. If you look after my message it has the message I reply to, 223rem not No more retail
>Considering you replied to my message and not the correct one. Which is >easy to do since on that news reader it has reply to message on the post > >I live in Orlando, Florida book a flight I would met you even though it >was not me that called her that 223rem - 12 Oct 2005 23:23 GMT > The point to posting this message was to find out if anyone has answers or > has heard of this happening. If I wanted to hear from three year olds I would > have asked my cousins. U r lucky I don't know u or I would stomp your face in. > Call my girlfriend a bitch again and we can take care of this man to child. > Get it. If u don't have something that can help us, read someone elses > messages. The only thing that can help you and your skank is to be banned for life from owning any pets.
Niel Humphreys - 13 Oct 2005 08:47 GMT > The point to posting this message was to find out if anyone has answers or > has heard of this happening. If I wanted to hear from three year olds I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Get it. If u don't have something that can help us, read someone elses > messages. Your girlfriend is a mutiliating bitch and you are a top posting fuckwit with no remorse for causing the death of your poor innocent cat. You should not be permitted to keep pets, you are the lowest for of life. (assuming you're not just trolling for attention)
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Niel H
223rem - 14 Oct 2005 07:21 GMT > Call my girlfriend a bitch again and we can take care of this man to child. Oh I'm sorry, I forgot. Your girlfriend (if you have one) can only be a bitch. So are you.
Barrnabas Collins - 12 Oct 2005 23:22 GMT >"Declaw taken care of". You and your girlfriend are monsters, animal abusers >of the worst kind. It is you and your bitch who are responsible for that cat's death. >No one else is. You loved them very much?! You are sick. f.ck you. That may be a bit harsh. Leaving aside the declaw issue I would add this may well have happened even if the cat had not been declawed.
You do realize some cats have stuff like heart problems? ------------------------------------------
http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com
Niel Humphreys - 12 Oct 2005 12:30 GMT > Hello, > > On Friday October 7, 2005, we took Cosmo to the Community Pet Care clinic > to > have her declaw taken care of. Mutilating scum.
Barrnabas Collins - 12 Oct 2005 23:13 GMT I won't get into the declawing issue....i'm sure others will take up that chalenge.
One thing I would add is I had a cat who died a number of years ago. I had gotten up at about 3 in the morning to do my daily Tai Chi when I noticed that cat was still.....too still. Turned out she died.
Out of concern for the other cats in the household I had an autopsy done. Results negative. What the vet believes happened was the cat had a heart problem. Also this kitten never had the sense to slow down when she got tired.
Prior to this we had no warning of any problems except that this cat would not rest on her own. The cat needed some encouragement to stop and rest. She didn't have the sense to do it on her own. ------------------------------------------
http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com
Kiran - 12 Oct 2005 23:14 GMT : My name is James. : On Friday October 7, 2005, we took Cosmo to the Community Pet Care : clinic to have her Leukemia shot and declaw taken care of. Cosmo was : only thirteen months old. The vet "SAID" everything went fine with the : operation. While Cosmo was in recovery, she stopped breathing and her : heart stopped. James,
Let me make it short and simple for you. You will get no sympathy on this board. That is because most of us know that declawing is a cruel inhumane act, extremely painful and disabling, equivalent of amputating your fingers and toes---even if the surgery had gone picture perfect.
Like all surgeries, you should have researched this before, ask our opinions first. A five minute google research would have warned you.
Most people here will treat you as they would a murderer. I realize that greedy vets are part of the story but the cat belonged to you, was your responsibility.
It serves no purpose to call you and your girlfriend names, but the truth remains you two should have shown greater responsibility and maturity. I hope you will learn your lesson, since that's all you can salvage out of Cosmo's life now, and be more responsible in future.
Make the best of this tragedy, and fighting with others and pretending you ar enot at fault is hardly the way.
Never declaw a cat. For no reason, no ifs and buts. If your furniture etc are that precious, and you don't know and can't be bothered with how to deal with cats, then don't get cats. If you want the company of a living being, then make a few adjustments in your life accordingly.
K.
No More Retail - 12 Oct 2005 23:18 GMT Ajanta - 12 Oct 2005 23:18 GMT : We believe Cosmo should have a voice here. We don't want Cosmo to : die for nothing. She DESERVES BETTER than that. My heart goes out to the poor cat. She deserved better than you and your girlfriend. Morons. I would love to chop the fingers off the two of you and see how you feel.
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