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Cat Forum / General Topics / September 2005scratching kitten (6 months old) - vet given up. any advices?
We need help for our cat and seeing if there are some experts out there that have any clever advices. The cat is about 6 months old, we got the kitten in May. The problem is that he is scratching all the time and it only get's worse. He scratches so deep that the skin parts and blood are flying through the air. The area he scratches are around the head, ears, under the chaw. The scratching started in June before our vacation. We went to the vet when he had a little wound on his head next to the ear, because of intensive scratching. The vet did some tests and didn't find anything unusual. He gave some fluid to take on the wound daily. This did not help. We then left on vacation for about 10 days. Our neighboor was feeding him every day, played a bit with him and took on the medication. The cat only got worse with scratching himself on other places. When we got home again he had small wounds all over his head (above the eyes). Missing the hair on those places because of the scratching. We took him to the vet again. He gave him antibiotics and some other medicine to calm the cat down. He still said that if the cat wants to scratch, then let him scratch until we found the source of the problem. Again, we took him back to the vet after a week and he advices stopping the drug for calming the cat down as it was not healthy for such a young kitten and in our opinion this medication didn't help either. Just in case we got some drips for 'mids' (insects? don't know the English word..) We've had him to the vet about 2-3 times after this to get the results from different tests and other advices. The vet has given up. No more advices really... The following has been tested: - fungal discease (mids?) - negative - other tests for deceases - negative (samples taken from skin/wound) - different cat sand - different general food - 'low allergi' food diet The last thing the vet tried was to set him on a special diet 'low allegy' food. He doubted this could affect such young cats, but tried anyway. We also set on a 'satellite dish' on his head to avoid the scratching. The 'dish' on his head helped for the wounds, but we didn't want to keep it more than two weeks as it's sad for the kitten. After some weeks the food diet seemed to help as we changed to normal kitten food again and he scratched once he ate it. We then bought the 'low allergi' food again and took of the 'dish' (as its no fun for a kitten having this on). It went okay in the beginning, but again, the scraching got worse and in new places and old wounds. Now it's under the chaw where it's the worst. Worth mentioning is that we only let him outside the house AFTER the scratching had started. We let him outside in July. (We didn't want a kitten to be out in the backyard alone). So, we rule out that this is some mids etc. since he hasn't been outside. The vet mentioned we could take him to a skin specialist, but again lots of euro's and I really wonder if this person can find something that we didn't already try. Also, I have a feeling that the cat may have something psyhologial as he seems to start scratching every time he cannot go outside or if a door is shut from the bedroom to the living room etc. (we noticed this). However, the cat is fully aware of that when we say NO when he scratches he knows it's wrong. He prefers to run away (out in the yard some meters away where we can't get him and scratch...sounds a bit funny I admit..) Now, he just sits in his bed starring into the empty, two times a day eats and then scratch afterwords. The rest of the times he sleeps and cleans himself. He screams in pain when he scratches, we clean the wound and what more can we do..!? The situation now is that he got a 1x1 cm open wound on his head. All the skin/hair on this area is gone. Under the chin all the hair is gone and you can see right into the skin. All hair gone. Some small other spots around his mouth as well were he scratches... Now, what options do we have? What I'm thinking: - Take him to the vet, get something to disinfect the wounds (maybe a band aid?!) and put on the dish on his head for a month so we are sure all the wounds are gone for good? Then, hope that he doesn't start again? Additional: - cut the claws instead of putting the 'dish' on his head? I don't like this option, but would it help? Also, we can't let him outside then as he cannot climb up the tree to get back to our apartment...So, not prefered as he likes to be outside as well. If we have the 'dish' on we can control him more and catch him before he runs out. (Our terrace door has been open in the summer heat) - skin specialist? Would it really be worth the $$? - Any other suggestions??? I can post some pics if you like. Hope someone can help S & A Try posting this in alt.med.veterinary as well. Someone there might be able to help. Best of luck with this! Judy > We need help for our cat and seeing if there are some experts out there > that have any clever advices. [quoted text clipped - 110 lines] > > S & A Ideas: A veterinary dermatologist may be just what your cat needs. Some other possibilities I didn't see on your list of tests: Flea bite allergy - althought usually presents differently Food allergy - different brands including going to a "low allergen" diet may still contain the some of the things your kitten is allergic to. You can try what are called "novel protein" diets. In other words give the kitten a source for her protein she has not had before like instead of chicken/beef/pork based diet try potato, rice and even things that many people may not know are available commercially like kangaroo & bean diets. Very rare, but still a possibility are diseases which present due to immune system deficiencies which are usually diagnosed by having sample skin punches or wedges looked at by specialists in diagnostic laboratories. Good luck. Hi Carla Thanks, we did test for flea bite actually. It showed negative. The food allergy and the different brands is a good idea. It just takes so much time with testing the different foods before the result shows. We probably have to take him the the dermatologist though first. On the upside, he seems better today, out playing and hasn't seemed to scratched the last hours. Yes, food trials can take 3 to 6 weeks to see results and can be very disturbing to owners as the pet will still be uncomfortable during the trial. So is he on any drugs now? I only ask because steroids will decrease the urge to itch for a short time and it may look like he's getting better, but there are many adverse reactions. I would strongly suggest a veterinary dermatologist when you can afford it. Of course even then there are still problems called "idiopathic", which in case anyone didn't know is just a big word meaning we (the Vet community) have yet to find a cause. I don't think you need a new vet just because s/he can't determine what the cause of the intense itching is. It can't be expected for someone to know everything. That's why there are family vets and specialists. But I wouldn't ever discourage getting a 2nd opinion when ever an owner wants one. Check around, I don't know how close you are to the nearest Vet school, but its a good place to find a specialist, and they usually have diagnostic labs on site. At the school I went to they could conduct a skin test that cost about $150 or $200 in which they would test for reactions on up to 65 different allergens which they would choose according to the situation the animal was in, for example; indoor vs. outdoor. Good luck. Feel free to send me a photo (Dr.Carla@insightbb.com), I can send on to my vet school's derm department and see if they have any thoughts. > Hi Carla > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > upside, he seems better today, out playing and hasn't seemed to > scratched the last hours. If you can post the photo so we can all see what you are describing. alt.binaries.pictures.animals is pretty easy to use to post pictures. > Yes, food trials can take 3 to 6 weeks to see results and can be very disturbing to owners as the pet will still be uncomfortable > during the trial. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> upside, he seems better today, out playing and hasn't seemed to >> scratched the last hours. Hello Carla, Akira and you others that have followed up here. I will give you an update, have been busy workin' the last days, so little time to contribute. I took the cat to the vet on Thursday. The temprature of Snowball was 39.9 degrees celcius (and normal should be between 38-39 if I remember correctly) - This time the vet gave Snowball a shot for the scratching (Im not sure of the drug) - Also, he got an antibiotic cure in pill form. When we came home he immidatly felt better after the antibiotics (and or the shot?) - The scratching has been minimal the last days, but this morning he started a bit again. Still, it's not as critical as before. Let's hope he takes the scratching easy the next days so the wounds can heal. At least he's playing and is looking better. By the way: pictures of the wounds can be found here: http://www2.mimer.no/~sk/cat/index.html These were taken Wednesday evening. I've been thinking to take him to the vet school, however, it's about an hour with the train from here and we don't got a car (living in Amsterdam, so public transport is sufficent - Vet University in Utrecht). If the situation is not improving we would probably have to take him to a skin specialist first. About the tests you mentioned for the different types of allergies. I don't think we have those available in Holland. Maybe on the vet school, but my vet informed me that these tests were still unstable for cats (but, not for dogs) - So, not reliable enough after his opinion. However, there might be developments and maybe the vet school is the thing? regards Svein Those pictures make me want to show them to my vet. I will, if I can. Maybe she will have an idea. It is a good idea to post the pics so as you have. More people should, so that people who might know about something rare might be able to help. Please post news as you progress. Hey Svein I got your email One thing go to another vet also. I would take him to the vet school it never hurts to make sure some vets are very territorial just like doctors and they think they are never wrong. I showed your pictures to my vet here in the state of Florida, USA He definitely recommended a cortisone shot to stop the scratching, a awide range antibiotic and a cream antibiotic cream ointment or Like I told you some Vaseline for the wounds. My vet ( who I have had for 20 years ) would not guess what it was too many things without the blood test to look at but said definitely see another vet if the current vet can't figure it out Hope Snowball feels better Will try this later. Don't like to spam all the boards, so I will try first here. Wasn't aware of that group though, tnx! : Will try this later. Don't like to spam all the boards, so I will try : first here. Wasn't aware of that group though, tnx! Also try rec.pets.cats.health+behav . > Will try this later. Don't like to spam all the boards, so I will try > first here. Wasn't aware of that group though, tnx! There are some real vets there (maybe here too) I would try there. [Forwarded to rec.pets.cats.health+behav] : We need help for our cat and seeing if there are some experts out there : that have any clever advices. [quoted text clipped - 110 lines] : : S & A So, you have a 6 month old cat with two medical concerns: The primary problem is the itching/inflammation of the skin (dermatitis) of unknown origin, in particular on the head and around the chin. In addition, you have a secondary trauma due to the excessive scratching. 1) Wounds This may be obvious, but I think you'd want to take good care of the open wounds first to make sure they don't become infected (if not already). I do think you will probably have to put the "satellite dish" back on the cat for a while, at least until the situation is under control. [In the United States the "dish" is called "Elizabethan collar" or "e-collar" for short.] In addition, I would suggest another trip to a vet (the same one or perhaps even a different one), so that the vet can i) re-evaluate the wounds to make sure they are not too serious and ii) prescribe a course of oral antibiotics (if appropriate) to help with the wound. The vet may prescribe other medications such as corticosteroids to reduce the itching temporarily, but again if it is appropriate. I doubt that cutting the claws "instead of putting the 'dish' on his head" will work, given the open wounds. But I do think it can help LATER when the wounds get better and the e-collar can come off (or perhaps even during brief periods of supervised time with no e-collar). So I agree that clipping his claws is a good idea. (You can use a human nail clipper for that.) I understand that clipped claws means no more unsupervised outdoor visits for the cat. But considering that the cause of the apparent allergic reaction is yet undetermined, keeping the cat indoors at this time may be a very good idea. It may be true that the itching started before he was let outside for the first time. But that doesn't mean whatever that are outside now aren't making matters worse. He could have developed sensitivity to multiple things. My point is that, you don't know for sure what is/are causing it yet. And if you can keep the cat indoors, it greatly narrows things down as far as the potential sources of the problem. 2) Itching. : The vet mentioned we could take him to a skin specialist, but again : lots of euro's and I really wonder if this person can find something : that we didn't already try. Taking him to a "skin specialist" may help. But even if do, I doubt that he or she can conclusively determine the cause immediately. It will likely require some trials and errors with your cooperation at home, for example with feeding special diets (if food is suspected). Since you mentioned that the special "low allergy" diet seemed to be actually helping, why not continue it to see if it seems to resolve the problem? : After some weeks the food diet seemed to help as we changed to normal : kitten food again and he scratched once he ate it. We then bought the : 'low allergi' food again and took of the 'dish' (as its no fun for a : kitten having this on). It could be that the particular "normal kitten food" contains a certain ingredient to which the cat has developed allergic reactions to. Once you establish that it is food in origin, then you can try to determine what ingredient he is allergic to, perhaps with guidance from the vet, or at least determine what food can "safely" be fed. But in order to establish that the problem is in fact food (or whatever else) in origin, you would have to be very methodical and thorough in the feeding trail/experiments. (If you let the cat out, he may eat or drink something you don't know about; a well-meaning neighbor might feed him some treats. Or maybe he routinely goes through thick vegetation that is naturally irritating or has been treated with chemical pesticide, and that might be causing a form of contact dermatitis - that could explain the location of the irritation. Or (as the vet seemed to suspect initially) it could still be due to parasites (fleas, ear mites) - even a small number of bites can cause skin reactions in a sensitized animal for some time, and they could be indoors as well as out. Or it could be hormonal. The list goes on and on.) But, keep in mind also that problems like this can resolve spontaneously. (Or it could be seasonal in appearance.) Not sure if any of this helps, since none of this is a quick fix. In any case, I hope your cat will get better very soon! -Akira California, USA Hi Akira Yes, you are correct with the two medical concerns. 1) We did take the cat to the vet on Thursday. He gave him a shot for the scratching (I don't know the drug) and inspected the wounds. We got a 10 day antibiotic cure for the wounds. (The temprature of the cat was 39.9 degrees). After the vet visit and the medicine the cat was feeling a lot better. Regarding the 'e-collar'. The vet recommended that we don't use this one the first days given the area the wounds are. The pictures can be found here: http://www2.mimer.no/~sk/cat/index.html As you see I think a e-collar can make matters worse since it's around the neck. My personal opinion would be to wait a week so the wounds are healing more (if the scratching doesn't increase), then mount the e-collar. I do understand the advices with not letting him outside. But, I would like to wait a month before starting that experiment. Reason beeing that our apartment is pretty warm from the sunny weather we had lately, so our door is always open to get fresh air. Later in the autumn that's not the case. We can then start more to keep him indoors. Also, if we cut the claws it means no outdoor visit (as he have to climb some trees here and there to come back to our apartment on the second floor.) 2) We will contnue on the food diet to see if this helps first. I also discussed with the vet that maybe we should put him on a different diet. He agreed, but it has to be one that contains all the correct proteins/vitamins for the kitten. If the current one don't help probably we will try another 'special'. Well, for now I keep things as usual with the low allergi food and the medications. It may be seasonal....And, ironically, the vet told me that his cat had the exact same problems from he got him until he was about 1 year old. He had tried absolutly everything (also, diets and skin specialist) after 1 year he just stopped scratching by himself. So, who knows?! S & A > We need help for our cat and seeing if there are some experts out there > that have any clever advices. [quoted text clipped - 110 lines] > > S & A I would change vets, right away. hm, I don't really know. The vet seems insightful enough, but your right, it's never anything wrong in getting a second opinion. Will consider it... Svein |
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