Our stray furry friends and dogs.

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Jason James - 06 Sep 2005 02:36 GMT

We took in a stray tomcat who was street-wise and had successfully looked
after himself in the face of dogs and just trying to stay alive.

I wrote here about a couple of years ago when he needed surgery for a badly
infected claw-wound to his cheek. The Vet believed our story that he was a
true charity case and only charged $120 for the cleanup and post operative
antibiotic treatment, plus they neutered him..all done at the vet-hospital.
There are some good folks around, and its not surprising we find them
amongst animal lovers.

Since then, I'm happy to report, our big Orange friend has lived happily
with us, spending cold nights on our bed where he gets very friendly from
time to time. Its not uncommon to wake-up with Fatso lying along the top of
you purring away as soon as he notes you're awake,..other times as in
summer, he prefers to stay outside.

It was one of those nights that I happened to be awake around 11pm when I
heard that dreadful sound of a dog growling. I'm supposed to be an animal
lover, but it's difficult to maintain thsi attitude to dogs which try to
kill your cat. This was not the first time I had heard this noise. The first
resulted in me pushing the screen of our bedroom window so I was on the
scene quickly. The cat at that time was another stray who had taken up
residence, she was a long hair of some breed and it was her long clumping
coat (it would clump at the beginning of Spring some years) which saved her.
The dog, a bull-terrier cross, had bitten at her in her front leg 'arm-pit'.
Thing was the dog got a mouthful of fur instead of flesh. He dragged her
across our yard into next door before I got to him. I hit him with my fist
on his side as hard as I could. It took 2 of these before he took-off. Our
cat however had not recognised he had gone and continued flaying around,
then ran under a car. When we finally got her, she was covered in own
excrement and had a limp. The vet gave her a shot incase she had a wound,
but she recovered OK.

This time, it was the same thing except Fatty's street-wise experience came
into play instantly. He took off like lightening, runningup the closest tall
tree. My torch beam located him sitting awkwardly in one of the trees
forks,..he had slid down with his front legs splayed comically sticking out
from each side of the fork. He was none the worse tho for his encounter and
came down as tho nothing had happened.

I wonder what others think of this problem with dogs. Even tho the local
council have strict laws regarding dogs being unattended, it seems some
dog-owners let their pets out at night when the patrols are not around.

Jason

Reply to this Message

AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory@HushMail.Com - 06 Sep 2005 03:13 GMT

HOWEDY Jason,

Perhaps we should legislate laws against letting
ANY domestic critter roam at large to be molested
or molest other innocent critters.

Then it'd only by YOU who faces prosecution (hopefully
IN ADVANCE) for putting your own critters in harm's way
instead of blaming other innocent critters for only doin
as innocent dumb critters will do when unthinking uncaring
insensitive guilt ridden folks will do when they feel GUILTY.

Then there'd be NO PROBLEM cause we got the GUILTY PARTY.

Yours,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Animal Behavior Forensic
Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092

("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
(((' (((-((('' ((((

|\ _.-'~~""'~`'~)
/, ~-,__,,,.'~ ,-;;--''
|,4) ./ ' ; ;/'
'-~~;'@ ( ; ;
_.--'' _.-_..' .;.'
(,_..----''' (,..--''

Meow

/),,/)
( ' ; ')
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
(' ; ') kiss me
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
( ; ' ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
( ; ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/)
( * ) and KISS ME HERE!
(,,)-(,,)
The Amazing Pussy Wizard <{@); ~ } >

http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u

Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY.

IT AIN'T PRETTY.

<{@); ~ } >

> We took in a stray tomcat who was street-wise and had successfully looked
> after himself in the face of dogs and just trying to stay alive.
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> Jason

Reply to this Message

TheAmazingPussyWizard@HushMail.Com - 06 Sep 2005 03:57 GMT

Then you WONDER HOWE COME EVERYWON
HATES The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) : ~ ) >

Reply to this Message

unsurreality_2005@yahoo.com - 06 Sep 2005 04:11 GMT

> Then you WONDER HOWE COME EVERYWON
> HATES The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) : ~ ) >

Sheesh - you have no clue. EVERYONE hates you because you are an
a.shole. It's really that simple.

If you stop being an a.shole, everyone won't hate you.

I really don't understand why you can't understand this. What kind of
learning disability do you freakin' have?

Talk to people in a courteous tone, and you wouldn't be hated. Talk to
people in a jackass manner as you do, then most *everyone* WILL hate
you. I don't see how you cannot figure that out.

Stop...being...an..a.shole...and people will treat you with respect and
listen - give it a try, at least! If it doesn't work, I'll admit I was
wrong!

Reply to this Message

TheAmazingPuppyWizard@Mail.Com - 06 Sep 2005 06:11 GMT

> > Then you WONDER HOWE COME EVERYWON
> > HATES The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) : ~ ) >
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> listen - give it a try, at least! If it doesn't work, I'll admit I was
> wrong!

Let's start with you, pat.

HOWEDY spot,

Spot wrote:

> > Now that the puppy is growing some and gaining
> > some confidence, he has taken to barking. Loudly.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> > methods. She says to ignore him while he's barking,
> > and then click and treat whenever he stops.

> I believe in positive re-inforcement

Indeedy. The term MEANS YOU CAN HURT THE DOG.

> but sometimes it has it's limits.

That's absurd, spot. Only dog abusers hurt innocent
critters because their "POSITIVE RE-INFORCEMENT"
always fails because when you use positive reinforcement
REINFORCEMENT NEVER ENDS because there's NO TRAINING,
only POSITIVE RE-INFORCEMENT. The OPERATOR MUST BE IN
CON-TROLL or the dog will do as his instinct or habit
dictates.

Using confusing terminology like oc an cc and positive
reinforcement is INSANE and you ain't gonna get away
with doin that no more here.

> I wouldn't automatically jump to an ecollar

Of curse you would because you don't know how
to make your dogs NOT BE AFRAID because you
hurt and intimidate them.

> at this point

All behavior problems are CAUSED BY MISHANDING
and therefor can be CURED NEARLY INSTANTLY by
simply doing EXXXACTLY PRECISELY OPPOSITE of
EVERY THING YOU DO to your own miserable dogs.

> but when all else fails

You mean when your POSITIVE RE-INFORCEMENT fails.

> it might be an option.

Only cowards and mental cases hurt and intimidate
innocent dumb critters for BEING AFRAID, spot. All
you gotta do is PRAISE HIM and he WON'T BE AFRAID.

> In Ladys case it was the collor either worked

To make him self confident calm and unafraid.

> or I had to find her a new home back on a farm somewhere.

Because your POSITIVE RE-INFORCEMENT FAILS because
you CANNOT USE ANY PUNISHMENT if you are going to
be using NON VICIOUS TRAINING METHODS including
offering and withholding of bribes attention praise
affection or so call rewards.

> I have a collie/shepard

A dog is a dog.

> that came from my sisters farm at the age os 11 months.

That's curious your sister would be dumpin farm dogs in the city.

> She wasn't exposed to all the noises she hears in town

So what? All you gotta do is TELL THEM IT'S O.K.

Dogs fear noises because they're ABUSED and / or CRATED.

> so we had an issue with barking.

Barking is a SYMPTOM of SUMPTHIN WRONG, let's
call that MISHANDLING.

ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS
ARE CAUSED BY
MISHANDLING.

ALL Critters Only Respond In PREDICTABLE INNATE
NORMAL NATURAL INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.

> I thought we had it licked

That so?

> until she got spooked by the neighbor shoveling
> snow across the street one night.

The reason she "spooked" at the neighbor was
because you'd punished or rewarded her noise
barking behavior. Behaviors that are ignored
repressed or rewarded only get worse or change
to other seemingly non related behaviors as
anxiety relief mechanisms or trainsfer behaivors.

> After that as soon as you'd take her out the door
> she'd start into barking like a raving fool at any
> type of noise outside

That's probably because you gave her the business
when she EMBARRASSED you in front of the neighbor
and you didn't want them to think you wasn't a
responsible dog owner not punishing a fear aggressive
dog into being trusting calm and confident.

> and nothing would shut her up.

Any behavior that's repeatable predictable or consistent
is EZ to change cue or extinguish NEARLY INSTANTLY using
ONLY PRAISE and brief variably alternating non physical
distraction INSTANTLY followed by prolonged intermittent
non physical praise and praise in advance.

"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes -- excitation,
inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov

Repeat four times in four different venues and the
HABIT is SCIENTIFICALLY CONDITIONED or EXTINGUISHED
as you prefer NEARLY INSTANTLY.

Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At
UofOH Oxford That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive
Dogs Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC.
Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific
Management Of Doggies.

"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS were
moved to a delayed contingency the behavoir and learning
immediately deteriorated."

"Valette 1966 is a complete trivialization of
scientific findings. It overstates the case for
reinforcement theory. No careful researcher
would contend that operant techniques CAN ANY
THING MORE than modify SHORT TERM BEHAVIOR in
a highly controlled and limited environment
with a large number of skillful experimenters.

Certainly the most elaborate studies have shown
that the withdrawal or temprary inefficiency of
the reward system is immediately followed by
CESSATION of the programmed behavior.

LeeCharlesKelley Wrote:

>From what I've read of Jerry's method it incorporates

a completely new model of learning, which is based (in
simplest terms) on the idea that all behavior is the
result of finding a way to relieve emotional tension.

This is true not just for dogs but all animals.

You don't believe in the validity of this
particular model of learning? You don't
think it makes sense?

Fine, I guess.

But it makes total sense to me.

And it made sense to Pavlov, too, though
not many people know this:

"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior."

Pavlov Told Us So 100 Years Ago. Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last
Student Demonstrated At UofOH Oxford, That Rehabilitation
Of Hyperactive Dogs Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC.
Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific Management
Of Doggys. <{) ; ~ ) >

WE CANNOT CONTINUE TO BLAME THE DOG OR ITS BREED:

ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.

You GET The Critter You TRAINED

A DOG Is A Dog;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES.

ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.

You GET The Critter You TRAINED

A DOG Is A Dog;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES.

In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.

Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.

ALL Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING

Jer 21 And unto this people thou shalt say,
Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I set before
you The Way Of Life, And The Way Of Death.

2Ki 19:6 And Isaiah said unto them, Thus
shall ye say to your master, Thus saith
the LORD, Be not afraid of the words which
thou hast heard, with which the servants of
the king of Assyria have blasphemed me.

The Puppy Prophet <{); ~ ) >

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:41:01 -0500
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."
<drv...@mindspring.com>
Subject: "time-out"

Dan, my own firm hatred of punishment has
recently been intensified by meeting The
Puppy Wizard, Jerry Howe, whose work with
dogs is marvelous.

There is a literature on harms caused by time
out, and perhaps you'd like to look at
http://www.dogydoright.com
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

"As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care."

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice

Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.

I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.

I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:

whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.

The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).

You see these behaviors in human managed animals,
especially animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.

As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."
<drv...@mindspring.com>

To: <pdd-aspy...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 9:31 AM
Subject: How does diagnosis shape treatment?

How does diagnosis shape treatment?

Nearly every week I have a visit from Jerry Howe, who
publicizes himself as The Puppy Wizard. Jerry is a
master at behavioral modification of dogs.

His fundamental bedrock is the work Pavlov's last student,
the late Sam Corson, Ph.D., did at the U of Ohio (at Oxford,O).

Sam always pointed out if the dog stopped working for
you in the lab, Pavlov and he always took the dog away
from the lab, and put him in a loving home and gave him
TLC for a couple of months, and then started, very carefully,
over again.

Jerry believes that reward and constraint focused training
is immoral. I've watched him in one short session calm
impossible dogs, just about to be murdered (oops "put to
sleep") because of their "incorrigibly" violent behavior.

Sam was one of the first people to apply amphetamine to
hyperactivity (he searched the Middle West for hyperactive
dogs); but he never lost sight of the fundamental reality that
a dog is not a human, but does respond, doggily, to dog love.

You might be surprised to go to B. F. Skinner's "Cumulative
Record" and read the essay by Breland and Breland, "The
Misbehavior of Organisms".

Animals cannot be successfully trained unless the
trainer attends to the evolutionary history, the individual's
developmental history, and the environmental niche of
the animal being trained.

Yep, right there in Skinner's last and summary book.
Even with behavior mod, you must know the animal.

<snip>

Dogs or little boys, you have to know the individual
history, and the nature of he disorder.

Dr. Von

PS if you are interested in dogs, then take
a look at Jerry's work.

> Finally as a last resort

You mean when you ran out of ideas information
and methods and you HURT your dog because choking
bribing and ignoring him DIDN'T WORK because
POSITIVE MEANS "DO SOMETHING TO FORCE THE DOG"
so your SHOCK COLLAR is still POSITIVE RE-
INFORCEMENT, celeste, you dog abuser.

> I bought a remote e-collar one that I manually control by hand.

To give him confidence like praising him does.
And you think the dog don't know it's you pushin
the big red button marked BURN.

> It was the best 95.00 I have ever spent in my life.

Because you're a SADIST, celeste.

> It took less than two days of verbal
> commands and few low dose zaps

Takes my students TEN MINUTES maybe less and they
don't yell bribe restrain choke hurt intimidate or
otherWIZE have POSITIVE RE-INFORCEMENT because we
PRAISE IN ADVANCE and continuously intermittently
throughout and the dog AIN'T AFRAID OF NUTHING
because WE SEZ it's O.K. and PRAISE THEM and know
what celeste?

THEY BELIEVE US! NEARLY INSTANTLY. ALWAYS.

Because THAT is the NATURE of the BEAST, just
as HURTING and INTIMDIATING and BRIBING and
MURDERING dogs is the NATURE OF THE BEAST in
you and your pals, celeste.

No wonder you FEAR and HATE The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >

I can't say's I'd blame you.

> to get her to understand what Quiet means.

You only REPRESSED her FEAR of strange noises
with GREATER FEAR of you hurting her somemore.

THAT'S CRIMINALLY INSANE.

And I can PROVE IT, to boot.

> She still will bark

Because she's AFRAID. Your dog is not supposed
to be barking at EVERY NOISE she hears no matter
what. She IS supposed to bark when she hears
something SUSPICIOUS but not EVERY THING as your
dog does. Your dog is AFRAID because YOU HURT HER.

> and she is allowed to bark

Because you CAN'T STOP HER because POSITIVE
REINFORCEMENT REQUIRES you OPERATE the behavior
in response to her stimuli. IOW, THE DOG TRAINED
YOU to push buttons and give cookies...

> but after a couple yaps when I tell her quiet she listens.

Or you'll HURT her somemore.

> The collar also came in handy when she started
> chasing rabbits now it's no longer an issue.

You had to HURT her to break her of chasing rabits?

Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.

> Celeste

You might try chasin a squirrel up a tree:

"Elizabeth Naime" <ena...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
news:r2itp09ioneibmse2mgmf0eslc5kohb51s@4ax.com...
> Quoth Handsome Jack Morrison
> <me10...@privacy.net.invalid> on Sat, 20 Nov 2004
> 02:15:55 GMT,
>
> >What's the difference between making, say, a
> >hard-charging field-bred retriever (say an equally
> >independent Chessie) "reliably do something that is
> >completely contrary to its wiring," e.g.,

<SNIP>

> Each time he focused on her rather than a
> nearby squirrel, the reward was that they
> chased the squirrel together.
>
> The fact that his best friend and fellow squirrel
> chaser was a bit clumsly and let the squirrels
> get away didn't bother him... apparently the
> chase was the best part.
>
> Once he got the picture (not long at all) the dog took
> to running over and stepping on her foot when there
> was chasable prey about... which pretty much took
> care of the squirrel chasing problem, as she was
> then able to pick him up and/or reward him with a
> joint chase when appropriate and not too
> embarassing.
>
> A good while after this training success, she found
> that he would run and touch her foot to alert her to
> prey *she* hadn't seen yet. Which gave her time to
> pick him up the time he saw the chicken first...
>
> There are limits, obviously. You can't chase deer
> with your dog; ain't proper and the game warden's
> not gonna be happy with it.

OR YOU MIGHT TRY doin the MONKEY MACARENA.

For your own safety you gotta learn to do the
MONKEY MACARENA. The Amazing Puppy Wizard will
share leah's Monkey Macarena with the group and
give her ALL the credit for it.

It's EZ! It AIN'T hard to do.

It goes LIKE THIS... here's HOWE:

leah wrote:

"spin around and start skipping in the
other direction, making chimpanzee
sounds.

Scream "My dog has aggression issues."

They'll avoid you. > :}

"Your goal is going to be to teach your dog
that every time he sees another dog, something
good is going to happen.

So as soon as he notices another dog,

Scream "My dog has aggression issues."

They'll avoid you. > :}

you begin to praise like mad and stuff his
face with hot dogs. When the dog is out
of sight, the praise and treats stop."

SEE?

O.K., NHOWE YOU TRY?

You won't have to scream at the shadows...

You mean HURT the dog, robin. You HURT your dog. We can
SEE IT when she's doin those agility trials you can't
seem to QUALIFY in when you compete on accHOWENT of
your dog stops to ARGUE with you. And you stand there
like a big dumb marlmaluke arguin back INSTEAD OF PRAISING
and continuing with the EXXXORCISE <{) ; ~ ) >

Your dog FLINCHES on the stop line on the ramp, on
accHOWENT of you've choked or shocked her to get her
to stop on the mark <{) : ~ ( >

Dog trainin AIN'T LUCK, robin. Your dogs TELLS The
Amazing Puppy Wizard EVERY THING YOU DO TO THEM:

"It is by muteness that a dog becomes so utterly
beyond value."

Like a confessor Priest? Don't bet your dog won't
tell on you...

"With him, words play no torturing tricks...
John Galsworthy, adapted with permission from
his FREE copy of The Puppy Wizzzard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manaual.

Their behaviors reflect our words, thoughts,
actions, and training quirks. Jerry HOWE,
The Puppy Wizard <{TPW; ~ } >

> to get them to pay attention.

We DON'T GET the dog to "PAY ATTENTION" on accHOWENT OF
THAT DISAVAILS the dog of LEARNING SELF CON-TROLL, robin.

THAT's HOWE COME YOU CAN'T TRAIN YOUR OWN DOGS.

> And for some dogs,

YOu mean those BREEDS you can't train on accHOWENT
of they're HARD WIRED, robin? LeeCharlesKelley
LOVES "HARD WIRED PRAY DRIVEN DOGS" on accHOWENT
of they TRAIN NEARLY INSTANTLY when he JOINS UP
with their PRAY DRIVE JUST LIKE HOWE your PAL
elizabeth naime SEZ her friend done learned HOWE
to do, PROBABLY from WON of LeeCharlesKelley's
students.

> the initial prey rush of a specific critter
> will *always* trump any human pleading.

You mean like that Grey HOWEND who pulled DHOWEN
his elderly owner to chase a critter and STOPPED
when he realize he knocked her DHOWEN and RETURNED?

Seems you CAN'T ALWAYS use ALWAYS when talkin
abHOWET dog behavior UNLESS YOU'RE The Amazing
Puppy Wizard who's ALWAYS RIGHT on accHOWENT of
IN THE PROBLEM ANIMAL BEHAVIOR BUSINESS FAILURE
MEANS DEATH <{) ; ~ ) >

Subject: Here's A Word From C...@dogtv.com
Date: 2002-01-29 11:53:56 PST

"Jerry Is On A One Man Jihad To Expose
And Discredit Dog Abusing Trainers"

Hello People,

Here's a word from C...@dogtv.com :

Hello Fans,

As the leading dog behavior and training
guru/personality of our times, and as the
ceo of the most important dogcasting
network on the planet, I think it's only fair
that I jump in here and break it down a little
like this.

I specialize not only in dogs, but in making
complicated issues easy to understand.

Which brings us to Jerry Howe.

Jerry Howe knows moore about dogs and dog
trainers and dog training methods than anyone
who participates here. As for me, I have more
skill than anyone here. As a result, I can train
dogs brilliantly, and dramatically, even offleash
on busy four lane highways in the concrete
wastelands of America...

http://dogtv.com/4LANE3.rm

without having to worry about following any of Jerry's
rigid guidelines for training dogs, or breaking any of
the rules in his "gestalt" approach. And, for that matter,
without having to rely on non-Jerry methods such as
shock collars or having to use force which makes my
dogs "will to resist fade in importance."

You see, fans, I got my own methods, and you'll be
finding out about those presently

HOWE-ever, this is about Jerry, so let's talk Jerry.

Most newbies here, or other people who are struggling,
clueless and frustrated and doing things to train
their dog that they know they should not do, or would
rather not do, which either aren't working, or are even
making things worse, etc...and so forth, can, via
following the techniques in Jerry's FREE manual, get
excellent results in a short period of time.

He'll tell you HOWE, and I'll tell you WHY.

Most of you have heard of Pavlov's bell, where dogs
became conditioned to salivate at the sound of a bell
after they were repeatedly fed immediately after the
sound of the bell.

That's called conditioning.

And, while Jerry forcefully argues against the use of
what he calls "food bribes" (which is HOWE, many
other kinds of animals are trained, for instance,
dolphins) dogs can be trained/conditioned with or
without the use of food.

Jerry chooses to go the non food route exclusively,
and claims to get effective results, quickly, in virtually
any kind of dog or situation. Nothing in my brilliant
guru-ness leads me to believe that he is not being
truthful with most of his claims about his training
methods.

And scientific conditioning, which applies and is
effective on all dogs, and most other mammals
and higher life forms, is the basis of Jerry's training.
This is why, when Jerry says "a dog is a dog is a dog"
he is correct, in a sense.

Yes, there are breed differences, but yes, all dogs,
regardless of breed, can be conditioned using
scientific methods.

As for Jerry's behavior here, I'm not a human trainer,
and I don't try to train humans. But I do deal with people
in the same brilliant way that I deal with dogs. I don't
keep doing something which isn't working in order to
try to get people to behave, any more than I try to do the
same w/ dogs.

The moore you try to force Jerry, or put Jerry in a
Time Out or report him to his ISP, the worse his
behavior gets.

Jerry is on a one man Jihad to expose and discredit
trainers who use this same idea of escalating punitivism,
on dogs, which Jerry believes is responsible for causing
the best dogs to get killed because of the fact that they

will not submit to this linear approach of escalating
force and punishment.

His classic example of this phenomenon is a german
shepherd named "Fritz" (do a google search).

Many of Jerry's critics have a vested interest in
Jerry being crazy. Because if he isn't, it makes them
crazy for preaching that Jerry is crazy, so hard and
for so long.

But regardless, to anyone interested in training
their dog effectively without force or punishment,
Jerry's mental state is irrelevant and his advice is
generally excellent, if sometimes overbearing.

And finally, Jerry's approach is especially valuable
for interrupting, stopping or extinguishing unwanted
behaviors. I'm not so sure howe good it is when it
comes to getting creative results out of dogs, or for
teaching dogs tricks or complicated sequences (at
least as far as I can tell).

My only caveat with Jerry's method is that the idea of
extinguishing behaviors is kind of like extinguishing
biodiversity or any other resource. Each behavior is
a resource to me, not necessarily a problem to be
extinguished. You have to be careful what you
extinguish.

But, like jerry says, dogs don't do right or wrong,
they do "dog." And his method does not punish
them for doing wrong. It only tries to extinguish
certain aspects of "dog" which can be problematical
for people.

That's all for now, gotta go back to my new job at an
IT expert. It's a long and grueling one mile walk from
home.
--
this is michael
reporting live...
from the even faster loading
http://dogtv.com

Reply to this Message

Jason James - 06 Sep 2005 04:01 GMT

> HOWEDY Jason,
>
> Perhaps we should legislate laws against letting
> ANY domestic critter roam at large to be molested
> or molest other innocent critters.

I agree in an ideal world where kittens aren't born as strays, learn to be
"outside" cats which means trying to keep them in a house causes them to
stress-out.
Have you tried to keep a stray inside when they are climbing the curtains to
see if that window is an access to outside?

> Then it'd only by YOU who faces prosecution (hopefully
> IN ADVANCE) for putting your own critters in harm's way
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Then there'd be NO PROBLEM cause we got the GUILTY PARTY.

Society has already decided that roaming dogs are not a good thing. Society
has not made the same decision about cats, tho the amount of damage some can
do to wild-life can be considerable. Our own cat has been brought-up as a
house cat. My post was referring to strays,..in case you hadn't noticed.

Stray cats will not be educated to become house cats, unless someone has had
a different experience?

Jason

Reply to this Message

treeline12345@yahoo.com - 06 Sep 2005 06:01 GMT

> Stray cats will not be educated to become house cats, unless someone has had
> a different experience?
>
> Jason

I have a stray cat that is pretty much a house cat now. I let her out
but she comes back after a half hour or so. It's hard to say what
happened with her. I think she realizes that it's dangerous being a
stray. Although when she was a stray, she seemed less fearful than now.
Not sure if I did a good thing or not.

In any case, I have just read that really wild cats have never been
tamed. And what's more, their kits or kittens are also untameable. So
if by stray you mean truly feral cats, that's so.

My stray was a street cat so already used to people and being fed
sometimes by people so not a true feral living in a forest by any
stretch of the imagination.

Reply to this Message

Jason James - 07 Sep 2005 19:21 GMT

> > Stray cats will not be educated to become house cats, unless someone has had
> > a different experience?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> stray. Although when she was a stray, she seemed less fearful than now.
> Not sure if I did a good thing or not.

Yes, I've found (with the 3 strays and one "home" cat) that their behaviour
is a mix of genetic and learned,..and that sometimes these are at odds with
each other. But with each case of the 3 strays, they insisted they could go
out when they were 'through' with being inside. Our present stray (a spayed
Tom) goes in and out 6 times or more a day. He has however, become less
tolerant of bad weather and other things of an adverse nature outside.

Our 'house' cat (a male, spayed and micro-chipped) is a little neurotic, and
I also wonder if it was a good idea having a house cat at all, and he was
bought as a 2 month old kitten.

> In any case, I have just read that really wild cats have never been
> tamed. And what's more, their kits or kittens are also untameable. So
> if by stray you mean truly feral cats, that's so.

I meant cats that for whatever reason turn up consistantly for food and
spend most of their time in your backyard. I certainly hope they are real
strays and not a cat who is just 'working the neighbourhood" (lol)

> My stray was a street cat so already used to people and being fed
> sometimes by people so not a true feral living in a forest by any
> stretch of the imagination.

I have seen true ferals occasionally when I used to travel out west in the
bush. They are very timid and almost always are quite large cats.

One thing our present fella was scared of when he first started turning up,.
.was brooms. His reaction told us a lot about his previous experiences.

Jason

Reply to this Message

AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory@HushMail.Com - 07 Sep 2005 22:45 GMT

HOWEDY Jason,

> > > Stray cats will not be educated to become house cats,

That's ABSURD.

> > > unless someone has had a different experience?

Lots of 'm very very different from those of the EXXXPERTS
like karen pryor who MURDERED her own DEAD KAT because she
COULDN'T TRAIN IT not to piss in her stove top.

> > > Jason
> >
> > I have a stray cat that is pretty much a house cat now.

INDEED? She's a housekat by means of entrapment.

Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
From: "Gee" <G...@canttellya.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:19:56 +0100

Subject: Training a cat not to be afraid of cars

Hi guys,

Well I am a senior poster on usenet and I know this
post may cause some arguments but pls understand that
I have no option but to resort to this.

My QT got run over 5 yrs ago. My cats are indoor since
and I have written many posts and have many arguments
in cat newsgroups as to why cats should be indoor cats.

So that is to clear what I am about.

<SNIP>

> > I let her out but she comes back after a half hour
> > or so. It's hard to say what happened with her.

Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
From: treeline12...@yahoo.com (Tree Line)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 21:20:09 -0700

Subject: I created a monster thread

If you really want an answer to how to untrain a cat,
let me suggest operant behavior training. You can find
this info at clickertraining.com or under Clicker training
cats.

<SNIP>

> > I think she realizes that it's dangerous being a stray.

"For Sparkie to be indoor only will be impossible. We
ried, keeping the cat flap locked, but Barney(the biggest
one) headbutted it so much not being used to locked cat
flap, that he eventually broke it. So that's not gonna
work.

I can;t keep Sparkie, so the only other option is for me
to train him how to NOT go on the road, or run like hell
when he sees the car. I wondered if anybody has done similar
training."

> > Although when she was a stray, she seemed less
> > fearful than now.

"It's a good idea for this might keep them less bored
and a bit more interested. Sort of like going to school,"

> > Not sure if I did a good thing or not.

"takes only minutes, and is quite fun to do. Has to be fun."

> Yes, I've found (with the 3 strays and one "home" cat)
> that their behaviour is a mix of genetic and learned,..

INDEED? You mean that old "Nature Vs Nurture" debate?

> and that sometimes these are at odds with each other.

Then you're doin SUMPTHIN WRONG. Perhaps you're
EXXXORCISING your training NATURE rather than
exercising your NURTURING nature.

"I can;t keep Sparkie, so the only other option is for me
to train him how to NOT go on the road, or run like hell
when he sees the car. I wondered if anybody has done similar
training."

> But with each case of the 3 strays, they insisted they
> could go out when they were 'through' with being inside.

Because they're FRUSTRATED.

> Our present stray (a spayed Tom) goes in and out 6 times
> or more a day. He has however, become less tolerant of
> bad weather and other things of an adverse nature outside.

You mean he's learned to seek refuge inside.

> Our 'house' cat (a male, spayed and micro-chipped)
> is a little neurotic,

Naaah? DO TELL???

> and I also wonder if it was a good idea having a
> house cat at all, and he was bought as a 2 month
> old kitten.

"My QT got run over 5 yrs ago. My cats are indoor since
and I have written many posts and have many arguments
in cat newsgroups as to why cats should be indoor cats.

So that is to clear what I am about.

However"

> > In any case, I have just read that really wild cats
> > have never been tamed. And what's more, their kits
> > or kittens are also untameable. So if by stray you
> > mean truly feral cats, that's so.

Couldn't prove it by me...

> I meant cats that for whatever reason turn up consistantly
> for food and spend most of their time in your backyard. I
> certainly hope they are real strays and not a cat who is
> just 'working the neighbourhood" (lol)

That's absurd.

> > My stray was a street cat so already used to people
> > and being fed sometimes by people so not a true feral
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> travel out west in the bush. They are very timid and
> almost always are quite large cats.

Of curse.

> One thing our present fella was scared of when he first
> started turning up,..was brooms. His reaction told us a
> lot about his previous experiences.

That so?

> Jason

From: ThePuppyProp...@AniMail.Net
Date: 13 Aug 2005 19:43:45 -0700

Subject: Re: lead training

HOWEDY treelin12345,

treeline12...@yahoo.com wrote:

> ThePuppyProp...@AniMail.Net wrote:
> > HOWEDY treeline12345,

> It's Howdy.

No it AIN'T. It's HOWEDY, JUST LIKE HOWE it's SPELLED.

You should likeWIZE do Sancho, grasshopper.

> Like How Dy.

Yup, pretty much, just like sayin "HOWEDY"
an doin Sancho when entering The Master's
DoJo <{)' ~ { >

> Easy to remember.

INDEEDY. EZ to search for...

> Try it.

BTDT, treeline12345.

> Otherwise I'll have to report you to the net spelling police.

Snitch. Can't you police yourself? Isn't THAT
the ART of Chi Gnong?

> I would answer your reply,

Would you NHOWE? Shouldn't you THNK first?

> thanks, but all that logorrhea gives me a headache.

You mean ALL THAT PEER REVIEWED SCIENTIFIC INFORMATION
NEGATING EVERY THING YOU THOUGHT YOU KNEW abHOWET KATS
DOGS PEOPLE or BEAHVIORISM, grasshopper?

You think your revered Masters would think you worthy, for that?

> It's like trying to talk to a bipolar
> personality during their hyper manic phase :)

Sometimes when MASTERS debate they gotta STUDY their SUBJECT:

"Most of the QiGong masters I have run across have too
many individual exercises and their books give me a bit
of a headache. One Chinese fellow from Malaysia is fabulous
for his command of English. Kit or Kiew or something. But I
prefer to recommend QiGong masters who were born in China
and with whom I have personally studied."

NAME THEM. THAT should be EZ, grasshopper.

Here's your EXXXPERTEASE and CREDIBILITY
EXXXPOSED as a FRAUD and A COWARD and A
LIAR:

Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.anecdotes
From: treeline12...@yahoo.com (Tree Line)
Date: 8 Apr 2004 21:20:09 -0700

Subject: I created a monster thread

If you really want an answer to how to untrain a cat,
let me suggest operant behavior training. You can find
this info at clickertraining.com or under Clicker training
cats.

It's a good idea for this might keep them less bored
and a bit more interested. Sort of like going to school,
takes only minutes, and is quite fun to do. Has to be fun.

This is a a somewhat straight or serious answer to your
question. Don't know if you were just anecdoting or
actually wanted to find out how to work with behaviors
and cats.

I've tried it but and it's interesting how my cat
will work along with me. In fact, she is more interested
in her schooling than food or sleeping which makes me
feel awfully guilty that I have not been exercising
her fine feline brain.

Treeline

NHOWE SEE THE TRUTH:

Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
From: "Gee" <G...@canttellya.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:19:56 +0100

Subject: Training a cat not to be afraid of cars

Hi guys,

Well I am a senior poster on usenet and I know this
post may cause some arguments but pls understand that
I have no option but to resort to this.

My QT got run over 5 yrs ago. My cats are indoor since
and I have written many posts and have many arguments
in cat newsgroups as to why cats should be indoor cats.

So that is to clear what I am about.

However

I rescued a cat (Sparky) from someone few months ago
and my neighbors adopted him. For one reason or the
other he has been staying with me and is due to go
there any day now. My neighbors are wonderful people
who adore their cats, and have helped and took in many
cats over the last 30 years.

Their current 4 cats are outdoor and have a cat flap.
For Sparkie to be indoor only will be impossible. We
ried, keeping the cat flap locked, but Barney(the biggest
one) headbutted it so much not being used to locked cat
flap, that he eventually broke it. So that's not gonna
work.

I can;t keep Sparkie, so the only other option is for me
to train him how to NOT go on the road, or run like hell
when he sees the car. I wondered if anybody has done similar
training.

I know that Guide Dogs get training like this but cannot
remember how it's done. Please if you have any ideas of
how to train him, or any web links let me know.

And please refrain from hate/argumentative posts, I wish
I could keep him, or keep him indoors, but it's simply
impossible.

So I just wanna do my best for the little one. He is
about a year old and a sweetheart.

Thanks
Gee

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!

And THAT'S HOWE COME THIS IS The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's HUMAN BEHAVIOR RESEARCH LABORATORIES.

WELCOME Test Subject tree12344, HOWEDY! <{); ~ ) >

THE UNMENTIONALBLE WON

Reply to this Message

Kadaitcha Man - 07 Sep 2005 23:27 GMT

On 7 Sep 2005 14:45:59 -0700,
AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory@HushMail.Com wrote
the following boring silly sh.t and said:

>HOWEDY Jason,
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>like karen pryor who MURDERED her own DEAD KAT because she
>COULDN'T TRAIN IT not to piss in her stove top.

f.ck you Jerry. Shut your f.cking mouth and leave people alone.

K-Man

Reply to this Message

TheAmazingPuppyWizard@Mail.Com - 06 Sep 2005 07:42 GMT

HOWEDY Jason,

> > HOWEDY Jason,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> I agree in an ideal world

In order to HAVE an ideal world we got to
ACT LIKE WE GOT an IDEAL WORLD and then it
WILL BE, bye and bye.

> where kittens aren't born as strays,

We can only be accountable for the critters
we're RESPONSIBLE for, Jason.

> learn to be "outside" cats

No problem:
ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.

You GET The Critter You TRAINED

> which means trying to keep them in a house
> causes them to stress-out.

No problem:

"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes -- excitation,
inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov

> Have you tried to keep a stray inside when
> they are climbing the curtains to see if
> that window is an access to outside?

LeeCharlesKelley Wrote:

>From what I've read of Jerry's method it incorporates

> > Then it'd only by YOU who faces prosecution (hopefully
> > IN ADVANCE) for putting your own critters in harm's way
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Society has already decided

If we conduct our actions and thoughs as though
we was living in a PERFECT WORLD we'd HAVE a
PERFECT WORLD, bye and bye, soon as we was rid
of those who was standing in the way of having a
perfect world to live in.

> that roaming dogs are not a good thing.

Pryor to leash laws dogs didn't have no problem for
roaming. They didn't have anxiety and aggression as
a result of being kept behind fences or on chains.

> Society has not made the same decision about cats,

Because they don't THINK kats can be TRAINED. You
can train your kat JUST LIKE a dog to naturally
want to stay on his terrortory and not destroy your
house.

> tho the amount of damage some can do to
> wild-life can be considerable.

There's no need for domestic kats to be munchin
on wild critters when mom an dad got a nice can
of tuna to open for them and maybe a pantry mouse
on occasion.

> Our own cat has been brought-up as a house cat.

Good.

> My post was referring to strays,..in case you hadn't noticed.

Don't matter what the kat's past history is.

> Stray cats will not be educated to become house cats,

Sez who?

ALL Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING

In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.

Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.

> unless someone has had a different experience?

All you got to do is follow the instructions in your
FREE COPY of my manual: http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u

Elaine McClung, President of Pet Rescue writes:

I do very much believe that DDR will help JR as I know it
has helped my dogs and cats. I do think your product is a
valuable tool in helping with aggression and other behavior
problems.

I am in Feral CatNetwork (we spay and neuter approximately
100 feral cats a month), I am also a member of a local AKC
dog obedience club, member of a local AKC agility club,
president of Pet Rescue, board member of the Alliance for
Care and Welfare of Animals (on the board are: county
commissioner, vet. rep., rep. from AKC dog club, CFA cat
club, assistant County manager, head of animal control,
director of two different shelters, etc.).

Thanks, Elaine,

Elaine McClung, President of Pet Rescue,
Animal Commisioner, Brevard County, FL
writes: Sep 9,2000

"I ordered from Jerry a long time ago.. He was helpful and
the order was filled promptly. Yes, Doggie Do Right does
indeed exist.

I "had" a very aggressive female Pit.. She was showing
aggression not only towards Dok, Rhodesian Ridgeback,
but our cats and even us.

She now plays with Dok, even to the point of allowing him
to take a toy or bone from her. She no longer shows any
aggression towards us. She is showing some aggression
towards the cats but that is down to a warning growl.

It is not just my opinion that all this aggression existed
before Doggie Do Right as we were advised by three vets
to euthanize her.

I do very much believe that DDR will help JR as I know it
has helped my dogs and cats. I do think your product is a
valuable tool in helping with aggression and other behavior
problems.

I am in Feral CatNetwork (we spay and neuter approximately
100 feral cats a month), I am also a member of a local AKC
dog obedience club, member of a local AKC agility club,
president of Pet Rescue, board member of the Alliance for
Care and Welfare of Animals (on the board are: county
commissioner, vet. rep., rep. from AKC dog club, CFA cat
club, assistant County manager, head of animal control,
director of two different shelters, etc.).

Thanks, Elaine

Hi Jerry, (update 10/31/00)

Teddy, my friend, with the very alpha male Siamese cat
reports all is well. She has been running DDR for well
over a week now and JR has not beaten up on any of
the other cats. Gillie the smallest female cat was living
in the bathroom and JR was attacking her every day.

Teddy forgot to close the bathroom door the second day
she had the DDR and came home to good news "no hair
all over the room." Now she is leaving the bathroom
door open all the time and JR has not attacked Gillie.

Gillie used to be able to sleep with Teddy on the bed but
JR got soooo....bad he would almost maul her if she came
into the bedroom. Teddy told me that yesterday Gillie came
into the bedroom and JR just looked at her and ignored her.

Teddy is so grateful as she was considering putting JR
outside or having him euthanized. Will update you in
another week or so.

Thanks, Elaine

Hi Jerry,

I wrote to you a week or so ago about the unit. I
have since borrowed one from Elaine Mc Clung. She
speaks very highly of it.

So, I brought it home and plugged it in. Of course,
I wanted it to come on, all the barking stop, and
have every one immediately fall to the floor in little
comas for a few hours. Well, after I got all 27 of
them to be quiet, still no comas. But, it had only
been 36 seconds at that point.

So, I gave it a little longer. Still no comas.
Was this really going to work? I mean, I do
have an unusual situation.

So, by bedtime, a few hours later. I started to
notice just how many were asleep already - with
their feet in the air!

I started to have hope. During the night, all was
calm. In the morning when I got up, only a few
of them WALKED quietly to the door to go out. Not
the usual evacuation.

I had the unit from Sunday afternoon until Tuesday
Morning. I was certainly pleased with the night
effect. I wasn't so sure about the amount of the
day time effect. Until I took it back. Within half
an hour, the monsters had resurfaced. I wondered
if I could break into Elaine's house and if she
would notice :)

I know another person who does dog rescue. She rescues
Beagles. She has 23 in an 1100 square foot house. God
bless her. She is interested to see if it will workfor
her. I also spoke to someone else who does cat rescue,
and she is interested. The cat rescue people have monthly
meetings. Maybe Elaine could give a word or two about it.

So, if there are any words of advice you can send my way
about the best way to use it in my case, I would appreciate
it. I of course wanted to keep it on the highest setting,
but don't know if that is advised, even with my situation
of so many new ones coming and (too few) going.

Also, how I and others can go about getting one, etc.
I think the vets should have the info in their offices.
It must help dogs with separation anxiety. My vet
practices homeopathic as well as traditional medicine,
so I would think it would be right up her alley.

Thank you.
Desiree M Webber
A New Leash On Life

Hi Jerry,

Well, we have been running Doggy Do Right for awhile (3
weeks) now and would appear that it is working. We are still
on the lowest setting but my cat aggressive dog is now
much calmer with the little fur balls getting near her. Not
perfect but much improved! I do think that you need a more
universal name as it appears to have drastically cut the
spraying problem down that we have with our crowded cat
situation. I am going to send an e-mail to Domesti-Cats
club, Feral Cat Network and Space Cats Club as a lot of the
members have some of the same problems with their cats.
It has also lessened the number of nightly cat fights.

Thanks, Elaine

Hi,
Lowest setting to us is when the machine is on the least
number of times during the day. We are going to try putting
it on the next setting and see if that will completely solve our
problems. We are holding our breath at this point on the
spraying and hoping that BIOSOUND continues to work.
Will let you know. Yes, feel free to use my post. If you sell to
people with cat spray problems though you might want to
recommend that they do what we did.

We went through the house with BacTerminator an enzyme
product that eats the cat urine. We have used Bac T. for a
long time and it usually only slows them down for a week or
two, so I know it is the BIOSOUND that has created the
success we are seeing right now. We were resigned to
constant cleaning and even then it was difficult to keep up
with. I don't know if you have forgotten but we have 19 cats.

Elaine.

Hi Jerry,

I received email from Mark Shaw on 10/6 which I
just read today. Sorry I didn't have time to get
to it sooner. We have had a lot going on in our
area concerning animals. We formed a new Task
Force to address spay/neuter, pet overpopulation
and animal abuse.

I needed to do a lot of research before the first
meeting and time was just not available for anything
else.

Anyway the letter went on to say that we are in collusion,
I tried to defraud him, and have sent none of the materials
that he has asked for although he has yet to furnish the P.O.
Box number that he wanted them sent to in the first place.

He goes on to state that I am no longer eligible for the
"fictions reward." All of this is in answer to postings
that prove I was "sharing" his email with you which in
his opinion was a breach of good manners. His email only
had terms and conditions of the reward which I would consider
"public information."

Be that as it may, I would like to state that you had my
permission to post any email I have sent you regarding DDR
including this email.

I'm very sorry that you have to put up with this type of
situation from someone that obviously never intended to
make good on his reward offer in the first place.

I had a call from a friend of mine with a very aggressive cat.
I have loaned her my DDR for a few weeks to see if it will calm
JR down. I will let you know the results. She goes to the same
holistic vet that I go to and he is also interested.

In case Mark does post to the list again I would like to
say that I do very much believe that DDR will help JR as
I know it has helped my dogs and cats. I have entirely too
much to do, to worry about his opinions or reward.

The only reason I was willing to apply for the reward was
on your behalf as I do think your product is a valuable
tool in helping with aggression and other behavior problems.

I am in Feral Cat Network (we spay and neuter approximately 100
feral cats a month), I am also a member of a local AKC dog
obedience club, member of a local AKC agility club, president of
Pet Rescue, board member of the Alliance for Care and Welfare of
Animals (on the board are: county commissioner, vet. rep., rep.
from AKC dog club, CFA cat club, assistant County manager, head
of animal control, director of two different shelters, etc.).

I listed these not to be on an ego trip but to let Mark know
that I am involved with animals and have very little time to
play games with him also I would not recommend your product
if I did not believe in it.

Please feel free to post this email as it has no copyright
on it as did Mark Shaw's last email to me.

Take care Jerry and don't let the Mark's of the world get
you down.

Elaine

Thank you, Elaine. I have been trying to educate the
mark's of this world, with some occasional successes.

I guess that's variable reinforcement?

Yours, Jerry.

================

("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
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Meow

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(' ; ') kiss me
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( ; ' ) kiss me here
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/),,/)
( ; ) kiss me here
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( * ) and KISS ME HERE!
(,,)-(,,)
The Amazing Pussy Wizard <{@); ~ } >

http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u

Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY.

IT AIN'T PRETTY.

<{@); ~ } >

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