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Cat Forum / General Topics / August 2005Cats and Raccoons
My cat is an indoors/outdoors cat. Ever since winters ended, she has insisted on sleeping in the porch. She also prefers not to use the litter-box and like to go outdoors. She has never strayed beyond our lawn: one neighbor has a loud dog, the other one loud workmen and machinery 8 hours a day; and those are the two outlets. :-) Frankly she just prefers to be in our porch and lawn to anywheer else including our house. The whole arrangement has been safe. While we await winters and inevitable indoor life, we have even started feeding her on the porch. OK, this neighborhood has a few raccoons as well, probably a mother with a few kids. I had seen them a few rare times prowling a neighbor's lawn, and besides scrounging for food they have not harmed or attacked anyone. So far I had not even seen them on my property. This evening a big surprise. I was dozing on one patio chair and the cat on the other, when I woke up to some noise. A raccoon had finished the few morsels of food the cat had left and was drinking out of her bowl. He paid no attention to the cat. She kept dozing as well---some alert hunter I have! I was in some panic and got up, which startled the raccoon who ran away. I picked up the cat, who didn't know what happened, and brought her in along with her feeding bowls. In about 15 minutes I saw the reccoon reappear on the porch, sniffing the floor for food crumbs. To my amazement he also sniffed the chair on which the cat had been lying. This time I decided to chase him away real good, with a broom, and he ran off into shadows. A few hours later, my cat was restless to go out again. I decided to allow her but only supervised, ie, she can stay as long as I am there too. As soon as she got out, she started sniffing the feeding area where the raccoon had been. This was the only (indirect) interaction between them---to sniff where the other had been, while the other was absent. I have decided not to feed her outside from now on, because she scatters crumbs around and those smells can attract unwelcome guests. However, I would be curious to know if those raccoons pose a real threat to my cat? I have never heard of them to hurt any pet in this area and he certainly showed no interest in the cat today. However, as with people, fights can start by misunderstanding: the cat may growl to defend her turf, which the mother raccoon could interpret as threat to her kitten, etc. I am only speculating, I have no experience with wildlife, and would like to hear what the experienced people think. Kiran You better get your cat a rabies shot. Personally, I'd be terrified to have my cats interacting with any wild animal. -- Barb Of course I don't look busy, I did it right the first time. >I have decided not to feed her outside from now on, because she >scatters crumbs around and those smells can attract unwelcome guests. The standard solution is a platform on a three-foot center post, with aluminum skirting around the rim - cats can jump, and so can reach the food, but coons can't jump snd so can't. >However, I would be curious to know if those raccoons pose a real >threat to my cat? I have never heard of them to hurt any pet in this [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >her kitten, etc. I am only speculating, I have no experience with >wildlife, and would like to hear what the experienced people think. Mostly, they ignore each other, though I do have one that will challenge a coon trying to come in through the cat flap. The only significant risk, other than just getting beat up, is rabies, but you probably should vaccinate the cat against that anyway (if you live in an area where rabies is present).  SignatureT.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu) SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D." somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected. : >I have decided not to feed her outside from now on, because she : >scatters crumbs around and those smells can attract unwelcome guests. : : The standard solution is a platform on a three-foot center post, with : aluminum skirting around the rim - cats can jump, and so can reach the : food, but coons can't jump snd so can't. Thanks. The price of edcating an ignorant person is more questions: What is center post? Wouldn't any 3' high table do? Also, what is aluminum skirting, do you simply mean Al-foil and I cover the surface with it? >>> I have decided not to feed her outside from now on, because she >>> scatters crumbs around and those smells can attract unwelcome [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Also, what is aluminum skirting, do you simply mean Al-foil and I > cover the surface with it? Actually, a center post means just that: one post in the middle to support the table. the post can be drivin into the ground or sunk into a bucket of concrete so that it will stay upright. The 'table' would need to be high enough off the ground that the raccoon can't just stand up on it's hind legs and reach it. Aluminum skirt is more like a stip of aluminum all around the outside of the 'table' top, just wide enough to keep a climbing raccoon from reaching the top of the table when climbing up from the center post - similar to a baffle used to keep squirrels out of bird feeders. This is why a regular 4-legged table isn't all that practicle I'm assuming a cross section of the finished product would look something like this: _________________________________ / | \ / | \ | | | | | | | >: >I have decided not to feed her outside from now on, because she >: >scatters crumbs around and those smells can attract unwelcome guests. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Also, what is aluminum skirting, do you simply mean Al-foil and I cover >the surface with it? Typically, these things are built on a 4x4 post sunk into the ground (usually in concrete), and consist of a flat top about two to three feet square mounted on top of the post (this is a high stress connection - something like four shelf brackets would be needed). Aluminum sheeting, such as is used for roof flashing, perhaps 18 inches wide, is wrapped around the edge so that the overall effect is a smooth - unclimbable - vertical metal surface beginning about a foot and a half from the ground and extending to the top. The skirt prevents the coon from grabbing the edge and pushing off from the post to climb over. You could use a used single leg table if it is weather resistant or under cover. One example is at <http://www.thewildones.net/raccoons.htm>. SignatureT.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu) SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D." somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected. : One example is at <http://www.thewildones.net/raccoons.htm>. Thanks, it is great! I have no mechanical sense and can't figure out the purpose of skirting (how could the raccoon get in if it wasn't there?), but I am glad it works. Lovely pictures. How much tech savvy does it take to set up such a camera? >: One example is at <http://www.thewildones.net/raccoons.htm>. > >Thanks, it is great! I have no mechanical sense and can't figure out >the purpose of skirting (how could the raccoon get in if it wasn't >there?), but I am glad it works. Lovely pictures. How much tech savvy >does it take to set up such a camera? Such things can be bought as a package - they are common for photographing wildlife. I sometimes think about buying one, but then I remember that I seldom see the animals in the same place and I don't plan on baiting them. Aside from the birds and small vermin, I get possums, coons, deer, rabbits, and the occasional squirrel - there are coyotes and armadillos in the area. SignatureT.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu) : Such things can be bought as a package - they are common for : photographing wildlife. I sometimes think about buying one, but then : I remember that I seldom see the animals in the same place and I don't : plan on baiting them... I am in an urban setting! If it is affordable enough I would consider watching my back porch and lawn late nights. >: Such things can be bought as a package - they are common for >: photographing wildlife. I sometimes think about buying one, but then [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I am in an urban setting! If it is affordable enough I would consider >watching my back porch and lawn late nights. For a small, sheltered, area while you are still up, I would use a cheap video camera and monitor to see what is going on, and a camera with built-in flash, an AC power pack, and remote shutter release (only partly because I already have all that stuff). A decent automatic wildlife camera is likely to be in the $200 -$400 range. SignatureT.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu) SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D." somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected. > ...significant risk, other than just getting beat up, is rabies, but you > probably should vaccinate the cat against that anyway (if you live in > an area where rabies is present). Where I live, it's not a matter of SHOULD, but MUST. Rabies vaccinations are mandatory for all pets living within the city limits--and booster shots every two years. >> ...significant risk, other than just getting beat up, is rabies, but you >> probably should vaccinate the cat against that anyway (if you live in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >are mandatory for all pets living within the city limits--and booster >shots every two years. There are whole countries - countries well represented among the readers here - that have no rabies at all, and therefore no rabies vaccinations. Of course, they don't have raccoons either. Even where rabies and coons both occur (often in the form of rabid coons), many cats that are fed are not pets and can't be handled - or even caught - to get them vaccinated. SignatureT.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu) SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D." somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected. > There are whole countries - countries well represented among the > readers here - that have no rabies at all, and therefore no rabies > vaccinations. Of course, they don't have raccoons either. That may well be, Ted; but I specified (as you will see if you re-read my post) pets in the city HERE. And that tends to eliminate cats and other animals elsewhere. > My cat is an indoors/outdoors cat. Ever since winters ended, she has > insisted on sleeping in the porch. She also prefers not to use the > litter-box and like to go outdoors. [snip] I am only speculating, I have no experience with > wildlife, and would like to hear what the experienced people think. > > Kiran Have you ever seen a raccoon under attack? Esp. a mother. It can and will kill your cat. They are vicious and have needlesharp teeth and claws AND paws that work like human hands. As for your cat "preferring to go outdoors" she does not have a preference, you just dont want to clean a cat box. But its either that or keep getting awakened each time your cat has to go. Is this animal neutered? Does it have shots? Are you gonna care when the neighbor backs over it? : As for your cat "preferring to go outdoors" she does not have a : preference, you just dont want to clean a cat box...Are you gonna : care when the neighbor backs over it? I appreciate your good intentions but you are only projecting the cats you have known, I know my cat better than you are likely to. She does have her own preference. Except on extremely cold days, she just wants to be in the porch all the time, even in slightly bad weather (the porch is covered). She cannot escape to the street. She can go to the neighbor's yards, but shows no inclination to do so. She stays in our porch, leaving it only to relieve herself. Of course I can forcibly confine her indoors, and I am thinking of doing so in the night. Our cat Neko used to go outside nearly every evening. When it got dark out she would go to the door and meow until my hubby let her out. After she got bite he decided to keep her in. (YEAH!!!) It took a few weeks for her to understand that she was never going out except in her travel taxi. Your cat will adapt too. You are the owner, you are the caregiver it is up to YOU to protect your cat. KEEP IT INSIDE!!!! 24/7 We have two boxes to clean, but I would rather clean to boxes than to have a sick cat or worse a dead one. > : As for your cat "preferring to go outdoors" she does not have a > : preference, you just dont want to clean a cat box...Are you gonna [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Of course I can forcibly confine her indoors, and I am thinking of > doing so in the night. >Our cat Neko used to go outside nearly every evening. When it got dark out >she would go to the door and meow until my hubby let her out. After she got [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> Of course I can forcibly confine her indoors, and I am thinking of >> doing so in the night. I wish I could keep my cat inside. It a tom cat. It wants outside a lot especially in the evenings. (It a stray we took in) The raccoons are taking over a cat house we bought. I wish there is something we could do (besides move the house inside). Not all raccoons are bad. I have seen a stray cats and raccoon eating food together. Greg Ro : The raccoons are taking over a cat house we bought. I wish there is : something we could do (besides move the house inside). If you are handy, take a cue from Ted's feeding house, http://www.thewildones.net/raccoons.htm and build a cat-house cats can jump to but raccoons can't! : Not all raccoons are bad. I have seen a stray cats and raccoon eating : food together. Good to hear. I must these raccoons have done nothing aggressive. Over many years, I have seen them only a few times in neighboring yards, and recently twice on my porch. That was almost certainly my fault, I let a situation develop where food crumbs were lying on the floor. : The raccoons are taking over a cat house we bought. I wish there is : something we could do (besides move the house inside). [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] : : Greg Ro How about a nice fence? carola > As for your cat "preferring to go outdoors" she does not have a > preference, you just dont want to clean a cat box. Did you pull that out of your a.s? > Is this animal neutered? Does it have shots? This "animal"? > Are you gonna care when the neighbor > backs over it? You're a selfrighteous busybody prick, arent you. >> As for your cat "preferring to go outdoors" she does not have a >> preference, you just dont want to clean a cat box. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > You're a selfrighteous busybody prick, arent you. And some days you just gotta wonder what kind of drugs people take before they get on Usenet. :) pat It is irritating to see someone say that a person who cares enough to write a ng about her pet ... being called lazy. How would anyone know whether the cat has a preference or not? >> My cat is an indoors/outdoors cat. Ever since winters ended, she has >> insisted on sleeping in the porch. She also prefers not to use the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > animal neutered? Does it have shots? Are you gonna care when the neighbor > backs over it? : It is irritating to see someone say that a person who cares : enough to write a ng about her pet ... being called lazy. How : would anyone know whether the cat has a preference or not? I have no idea why any intelligent person would think that a living creature cannot have preference. Cats have always had a reputation for being finicky, picky etc., what is that if not "preference"? A funny footnote is that we do have a litterbox inside. The situation has nothing to do with litterbox, but with my cat wanting to spend all the time outside. If she is outdoors, she is not going to come inside to "go". If last winter is any guide, she'd always want to step out for a while but one day she will decide on her own it is time to start sleeping inside. > : It is irritating to see someone say that a person who cares > : enough to write a ng about her pet ... being called lazy. How [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > a while but one day she will decide on her own it is time to start > sleeping inside. I do wish that I could understand their preferences. Quite bewildering sometimes. Well just to play devil's advocate, many people's children would have a preference to eat candy all the time and never have a decent dinner, but as grown ups we have to make the decision for them and what's best for their health. Maybe keeping your cat inside is best for her? It's ultimately up to you, not me. I'll keep mine indoors as I feel they're safer there (from wildlife, from traffic, from people that dislike cats, from other sick cats, etc.). However, I think you should take some precautions regarding raccoons. They can be very aggressive animals. Rabies, distemper, and topical parasites are all concerns, and I believe even giardia can come from raccoons (assuming they're washing food in your cat's water dish). Holly > : It is irritating to see someone say that a person who cares > : enough to write a ng about her pet ... being called lazy. How [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > a while but one day she will decide on her own it is time to start > sleeping inside. I had a tom cat who came with a trailer I rented courtesy of the previous tenant. Mr T. would tangle with anything and it wasn't uncommon for me to find 6 lb river rats on my porch a couple times a week. Later he then moved up to coons. He never came out on the winning end of the fight and got tore up pretty good. I never would have believed he was fighting a coon except my neighbor caught him at it. He spent the better part of a summer penned up on my porch trying to get him healed up. In the end it was a tangle with a coon that did him in. I no sooner got him patched up and he escaped out off the porch and came home two days later a total mess. I would cound myself lucky that your cat has common sense because Mr T sure never did. Celeste > My cat is an indoors/outdoors cat. Ever since winters ended, she has > insisted on sleeping in the porch. She also prefers not to use the [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Kiran >My cat is an indoors/outdoors cat. Ever since winters ended, she has >insisted on sleeping in the porch. She also prefers not to use the [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > >Kiran Hi Raccoons are interesting creatures. I used to live in Northern California in a semi-urban area. One evening I fell asleep on the couch watching TV with the front door open and when I woke up there were 3 of the little darlings wandering around in my living room. I sat up and said "Hi" to them in a calm voice and they all sat up and looked at me like "????" where'd you come from?" After a few seconds they calmly lined up and marched back out the door without any problems. On the other hand and on the other side of the country... A good friend of mine's dogs got into it with a raccoon in thier yard. She and her son broke the quarrel up and wound up having to shoot the raccoon, because it was unusually aggressive and wouldn't run off or run up a tree like raccoons would normally do. The dogs were severely damaged in the fight as well, but the worst part was the series of shots that they both needed to undergo when the raccoon turned out to have been rabid. They didn't even get bitten, they just cleaned up the mess after the local animal control office gave them bogus instructions. It's fortunate that they took the carcass in for inspection instead of simply dumping it like they were instructed to do. Be careful Claude > My cat is an indoors/outdoors cat. <snip> A raccoon will kill a cat. That being said, my Mom fed the cats and raccoons side-by-side for years. Her cats didn't seem bothered by them and vice verse. -L. >> My cat is an indoors/outdoors cat. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > -L. That's the kind of story I like to hear. Did she ever feed the racoons by hand? I guess it's a childish thing about wanting lions to lie down with lambs or something. > That's the kind of story I like to hear. Did she ever feed > the racoons by hand? I guess it's a childish thing about > wanting lions to lie down with lambs or something. LOL...no. raccoons are squirrley creatures. I wouldn't get too close - they can be perfectly fine and then get freaked out. We had one as a pet when I was growing up. He was the cutest thing, but as he matured sexually (about 2.5 years old) he became more aggressive. He eventually went wild and never came back (left during mating season and stayed away). I don't know if he was killed or if he just decided the ladies where more attractive than being a domesticated animal. In either case, it was an awesome experience as a kid, to have a pet raccoon. I remember his little black hands holding my finger when he was a baby. -L. >That's the kind of story I like to hear. Did she ever feed >the racoons by hand? I guess it's a childish thing about >wanting lions to lie down with lambs or something. There are not enemies, they just tolerate each other. A mother would give the cat a little hiss (They cat will stay back) However, if the babies go near the cat-the mother does not mind. Greg Ro When I first moved to the forest that we live in, I thought it was a real hoot to feed the raccoons. So everynight I would open the door and throw out a few handfuls of dog food. Every night the raccoons would gather at the door waiting. One night I turned the light on and counted 18 raccoons, all waiting for their food. Wait...did I say 18?....I meant 16 raccooons and 2 cats. Sitting in among 16 raccoons as if they were the best of buddies were 2 cats also waiting for their hand out. I gave up feeding the raccoons when I discovered that the little baby raccoons had an affinity for chewing up garden hoses and pool toys. but the cats still come around looking for their handouts. Having said that, our cat, Mr. Bonkers is strictly an indoor cat because of coyotes, hawks, and raccoons. When he goes out, its on a leash and on the pool deck, supervised at all times. >>> My cat is an indoors/outdoors cat. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > the racoons by hand? I guess it's a childish thing about > wanting lions to lie down with lambs or something. > When I first moved to the forest that we live in, I thought it was a real hoot to feed the raccoons. So everynight I would open > the door and throw out a few handfuls of dog food. Every night the raccoons would gather at the door waiting. One night I turned [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> the racoons by hand? I guess it's a childish thing about >> wanting lions to lie down with lambs or something. Apparently bees aren't the only species that communicates food sources. I wonder if it has anything to do, for cats, when they smell eachother's noses ... like does your nose smell like food? If so tell me where you've been. Raccoons don't bother cats. I've had them in the woods behind my house for 30 years. They come up onto the porch to eat any leftover cat food. > My cat is an indoors/outdoors cat. Ever since winters ended, she has > insisted on sleeping in the porch. She also prefers not to use the [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Kiran A couple of our cats would bother racoons and I'm afraid the racoons would win. And rabies is scary. There are great videos of dogs playing with bears and cats that get along really well with horses and dogs nursing pigs ... but it scares me to think about cats being outside with racoons. > Raccoons don't bother cats. I've had them in the woods behind my house for > 30 years. They come up onto the porch to eat any leftover cat food. [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >> >> Kiran I live in Huron National Forest and the coons and cats tolerate one another well. No problems with the baby coons either. I do however keep the cats up to date on their rabies and other shots. I have observed at night, a coon, porcupine, deer, opossum and skunk all feeding on bird seed in the back yard while the cats observed from the deck. Stone Some pic's http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/stoneman72/my_photos > A couple of our cats would bother racoons > and I'm afraid the racoons would win. And [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] >>> >>> Kiran > I live in Huron National Forest and the coons and cats tolerate one another > well. No problems with the baby coons either. I do however keep the cats up [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Stone > Some pic's http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/stoneman72/my_photos What's the pic of the dude in the tree with the bear cub? -L. >> I live in Huron National Forest and the coons and cats tolerate one >> another [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > -L. That would be an animal rescue worker. Don't know him. Stone Some pic's http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/stoneman72/my_photos > I live in Huron National Forest That's paradise, man. But how can anyone live in a National Forest? Are you a ranger perhaps? >> I live in Huron National Forest > > That's paradise, man. But how can anyone live in a National > Forest? Are you a ranger perhaps? There are areas within that are set aside and/or were preserved for private ownership. Stone Some pic's http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/stoneman72/my_photos Love your pics! Gretchen looks like two of our cats whom are tigers(Mama and Hobbes). >>> I live in Huron National Forest >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Stone > Some pic's http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/stoneman72/my_photos |
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