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Picky cat: Friskies or Whiskas?

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Newbie - 03 Aug 2005 07:34 GMT
My cat simply refuses to eat any of the nutritious premium foods I have
bought after much research! First I thought she simply doesn't like
paste and prefers chunks in gravy texture. However, that turned out to
be only half true. What she likes are chunk/gravy cans from cheaper
brands like Friskies and Whiskas! She ignores chunk/gravy food from
Science Diet: if that is the only option, she licks the gravy off but
leaves all meat behind.

Today I served her Friskies and SD side by side. To me they looked
similar: beef pieces in bad smelling brown gravy. :) She zeroed in on
Friskies, lapped it up, and didn't touch SD, even gravy.

This is quite perplexing to me. I have tried many tricks but I think
she has figured out that I can't see her go hungry and would eventually
break down and give her what she likes. So, between Friskies and
Whiskas which one will be better for her?

I must confess that I have avoided Fancy Feast, because their small
cans seem like rip offs to me, but she has turned down just about every
other premium food I have tried, canned or dry.
-L. - 03 Aug 2005 07:57 GMT
> My cat simply refuses to eat any of the nutritious premium foods I have
> bought after much research! First I thought she simply doesn't like
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> break down and give her what she likes. So, between Friskies and
> Whiskas which one will be better for her?

Friskie's.  Whiskas is high in fat and carbs.

> I must confess that I have avoided Fancy Feast, because their small
> cans seem like rip offs to me, but she has turned down just about every
> other premium food I have tried, canned or dry.

>From what Phil P. posted last week, Fancy Feast is now more "premium"
than it used to be.

Don't worry about it too much.  

-L.
Phil P. - 03 Aug 2005 14:27 GMT
> My cat simply refuses to eat any of the nutritious premium foods I have
> bought after much research! First I thought she simply doesn't like
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Science Diet: if that is the only option, she licks the gravy off but
> leaves all meat behind.

Have you offered her any of the 'loaf' type SD diets such as  Liver &
Chicken Entrée,  Gourmet Turkey Entrée,  Turkey & Giblets Entrée,  Savory
Chicken Entrée ?

> Today I served her Friskies and SD side by side. To me they looked
> similar: beef pieces in bad smelling brown gravy. :) She zeroed in on
> Friskies, lapped it up, and didn't touch SD, even gravy.

The reason for that is probably the triple sodium content and higher
phosphorus content of Friskies which cats find very palatable.  A similar
flavor enhancer (digest) is used to coat (enrobe) dry food nuggets and
pellets otherwise cats wouldn't touch the stuff.

> This is quite perplexing to me. I have tried many tricks but I think
> she has figured out that I can't see her go hungry and would eventually
> break down and give her what she likes. So, between Friskies and
> Whiskas which one will be better for her?

The last time I researched the Whiskas line, I found it completely
unacceptable.  Friskies, however, puts out a few diets that I've found
acceptable and would recommend if the budget was an issue:  Three of the
first 4 ingredients in the "Fine Cuts" line (pouches) contain meat or fish
as the primary protein sources and relatively low phosphorus and sodium
contents. The Prime Filets with Chicken in Gravy (can), Seared Filets With
Turkey & Giblets (can), Seared Filets with Salmon (can), Shredded Chicken &
Salmon Dinner in Gravy, and Sliced Gourmet Grill (cans) are also acceptable.

> I must confess that I have avoided Fancy Feast, because their small
> cans seem like rip offs to me, but she has turned down just about every
> other premium food I have tried, canned or dry.

Actually, the cost of two 3 oz. cans of Fancy Feast is very close to the
cost of one 5.5 oz can of 'premium' food.  FF tends to be less expensive in
Petsmart than anywhere else (.40/can).  FF Chicken Feast in Gravy contains
more meat products, much higher protein and lower phosphorus than most of
the other 'premium' brands including Wellness.

Phil
Newbie - 03 Aug 2005 18:57 GMT
: Have you offered her any of the 'loaf' type SD diets such as  Liver &
: Chicken Entrée,  Gourmet Turkey Entrée,  Turkey & Giblets Entrée,  Savory
: Chicken Entrée ?

Yes, indeed. Here is the hisory.

At first, I bought food by price; they were mainly Whiskas and
Friskies. By sheer chance (I didn't pay attention to texture), they
were bits-in-gravy type. She ate them happily.

Later, after receiving nutritional advice from a few persons, including
here and including comments from you, I bought an assortment of premuim
cans (SD, IAMS, Max Cat, Nutro). Again by chance most happened to be
paste or loaf type. She was quite resistant (but she did eat a little).

I still had a few Friskies left; when offered those she ate
enthusiastically. Maybe this was a mistake, because after this she
stopped accepting paste-like premium food completely!

At this point I theorized that maybe she likes the bits-in-gravy
texture better than paste. So I went out and bought several SD Savory
Cuts.

Now her discrimination became more perplexing:
Offered SD alone, she would lick the gravy off quite happily and leave
most of the meat behind.
Offered Friskies alone, she would finish everything.
Offered both side by side, she would eat Friskies and not touch SD.

This is where we are now.

: The reason for that is probably the triple sodium content and higher
: phosphorus content of Friskies which cats find very palatable.

Figures, :-)

: The last time I researched the Whiskas line, I found it completely
: unacceptable.  Friskies, however, puts out a few diets that I've found
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
: Turkey & Giblets (can), Seared Filets with Salmon (can), Shredded Chicken &
: Salmon Dinner in Gravy, and Sliced Gourmet Grill (cans) are also acceptable.

Thanks. In the near term, Friskies is it; this list will help.

: Actually, the cost of two 3 oz. cans of Fancy Feast is very close to the
: cost of one 5.5 oz can of 'premium' food.  FF tends to be less expensive in
: Petsmart than anywhere else (.40/can).  FF Chicken Feast in Gravy contains
: more meat products, much higher protein and lower phosphorus than most of
: the other 'premium' brands including Wellness.

Petsmart and Target happen to be most convenient for me (I prefer
Petsmart because you can buy individual cans). I am certainly prepared
to pay more than 32 cents/can Friskies cost me. I was able to buy most
premium cans for 49-59 cents on sale (which is why I stocked up), may
have paid 69 for some. Those prices are fine. With FF, it wasn't so
much the price, but my "alert consumer" personality, :-) maybe I will
get over that and try a few of those as well.

Besides shopping carefully within the Friskies line, I am toying with
the idea of blending a little bit of SD (savory cuts), increasing its
portion gradually, to see if she can be taught to eat SD.

I would love to be able to feed her loaf- and paste- type food as well,
just to increase her variety and my options, but I don't know how to
approach it. I don't want a stand-off with my cat and I don't think
blending paste into gravy would work well. :-)

At friends' homes I have seen cats that rush to the bowl and eat
whatever is offered. It is really eerie, though also a little cute, to
watch this cat inspect and sniff the bowl, think for a moment or two,
and then decide to either eat or move and sit quietly a few feet away
waiting for something else.
Phil P. - 04 Aug 2005 15:32 GMT
> : Have you offered her any of the 'loaf' type SD diets such as  Liver &
> : Chicken Entrée,  Gourmet Turkey Entrée,  Turkey & Giblets Entrée,  Savory
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> cans (SD, IAMS, Max Cat, Nutro). Again by chance most happened to be
> paste or loaf type. She was quite resistant (but she did eat a little).

Did you offer her the different diets as a smorgasbord- putting them all out
at the same time and letting her choose her favorite?

> I still had a few Friskies left; when offered those she ate
> enthusiastically. Maybe this was a mistake, because after this she
> stopped accepting paste-like premium food completely!

Try offering the loaf diet again, alone.  But this time, cut it up into
small chunks with a knife- don't mush it.

> At this point I theorized that maybe she likes the bits-in-gravy
> texture better than paste. So I went out and bought several SD Savory
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Thanks. In the near term, Friskies is it; this list will help.

If budget isn't issue, I'd recommend Fancy Feast over Friskies because it
contains more meat products and more protein from animal tissue than
Friskies.

> : Actually, the cost of two 3 oz. cans of Fancy Feast is very close to the
> : cost of one 5.5 oz can of 'premium' food.  FF tends to be less expensive in
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> much the price, but my "alert consumer" personality, :-) maybe I will
> get over that and try a few of those as well.

The caloric content of two 3 oz cans of FF is about the same as one 5.5 oz
can of most premium brands- which is about the same as the daily caloric
requirement for most cats.  With 3 oz cans, you can feed a freshly opened
can at both feedings; with 5.5 oz cans you must refrigerate 1/2 the can and
reheat it before serving.  Sometimes the cooling and reheating affects
flavor and texture.

> Besides shopping carefully within the Friskies line, I am toying with
> the idea of blending a little bit of SD (savory cuts), increasing its
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> approach it. I don't want a stand-off with my cat and I don't think
> blending paste into gravy would work well. :-)

You could try to accustom her taste and smell to SD by putting a dab of SD
on her nose.  The odor will satiate her olfactory system and when she licks
it off, she'll satiate her gustatory system so she won't detect the SD in
the mix until after she's eaten it.  Then gradually increase the amount of
SD in the mix while simultaneously decreasing the amount of Friskies by the
same amount.  I found also smearing a little food on a cat's belly helps her
get accustomed to a different food.

> At friends' homes I have seen cats that rush to the bowl and eat
> whatever is offered. It is really eerie, though also a little cute, to
> watch this cat inspect and sniff the bowl, think for a moment or two,
> and then decide to either eat or move and sit quietly a few feet away
> waiting for something else.

I've learned that feeding a variety of foods at a young age will often avoid
fixed food preferences later in life.  This is very important if the cat
develops a condition that requires a prescription food.  I try to accustom
cats to low phosphorus diets early on because that seems to be the hardest
addiction for cats to break.

Keep the faith- and keep trying!

Good luck,

Phil
Newbie - 04 Aug 2005 16:10 GMT
: Did you offer her the different diets as a smorgasbord- putting
: them all out at the same time and letting her choose her favorite?

Not yet. (Unless we count the time when I put SD, Friskies, and some
kibble at the same time. She ate only Friskies.) But I have made a note
of the process. Do you put very little of each? Otherwise she would eat
her favorite and have no appetite left to continue with the
experiement.

: Try offering the loaf diet again, alone.  But this time, cut it up into
: small chunks with a knife- don't mush it.

Thanks. Never thought of that. I don't know why but I realize I did
tend to mush it around with a spoon.

: The caloric content of two 3 oz cans of FF is about the same as one 5.5 oz
: can of most premium brands- which is about the same as the daily caloric
: requirement for most cats.  With 3 oz cans, you can feed a freshly opened
: can at both feedings; with 5.5 oz cans you must refrigerate 1/2 the can and
: reheat it before serving.  Sometimes the cooling and reheating affects
: flavor and texture.

True. The cat is always less enthusiastic about reheated food, no
matter how or how carefully I have done it. I have tried adding a spoon
of boiling water, 5-sec microwave at defrost setting, and a few other
tricks.

Also, thanks for the following comments:

: You could try to accustom her taste and smell to SD by putting a dab of SD
: on her nose.  The odor will satiate her olfactory system and when she licks
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
:
: Phil
Newbie - 05 Aug 2005 06:33 GMT
: Try offering the loaf diet again, alone.  But this time, cut it up into
: small chunks with a knife- don't mush it.

Hi Phil, I just wanted to acknowledge that this seems to be working.

Well, only one trial so far, but today I offered her an IAMS loaf, only
that instead of mushing it up with a spoon (I can't think of any reason
why I was doing that earlier), I cut it up into small chunks with a
knife and she lapped it up, no problem. Thanks for the suggestion.
Phil P. - 05 Aug 2005 15:26 GMT
> : Try offering the loaf diet again, alone.  But this time, cut it up into
> : small chunks with a knife- don't mush it.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> why I was doing that earlier), I cut it up into small chunks with a
> knife and she lapped it up, no problem. Thanks for the suggestion.

I'm glad it worked!  I guess some cats just don't like sticking their faces
in mush. ;-)
jmc - 03 Aug 2005 22:06 GMT
Suddenly, without warning, Newbie exclaimed (03-Aug-05 7:34 AM):
> My cat simply refuses to eat any of the nutritious premium foods I have
> bought after much research!

>What she likes are chunk/gravy cans from cheaper
> brands like Friskies and Whiskas!

My cat's the same.  My vet calls her a 'junk food junkie'.  She won't
touch Whiskas though.  She likes 9 Lives and Felix, a grocery-store cat
food here in the UK.

I keep trying for the premiums, since she's prone to cystitis and some
of the junk foods are truly bad for her.  Fortunatly, she will eat
premium dry, it's only the wet she doesn't like.  And if it doesn't have
jelly, forget it.  Gravy's not food, according to Meep.

jmc
John - 03 Aug 2005 22:30 GMT
>My cat simply refuses to eat any of the nutritious premium foods I have
>bought after much research! First I thought she simply doesn't like
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>cans seem like rip offs to me, but she has turned down just about every
>other premium food I have tried, canned or dry.

Try giving her the packets of Whiskas in Jelly.  Especially the fish
varieties.  Our cat loves this stuff.

We also buy the Purina One dry food.  He likes this too and often eats
it.  He mainly eats the Whiskas soft food though 75% of the time.

We only put a small amount of dried Purina food out for him at any
time, because dried food goes stale "VERY" quickly, and cats hate
stale food.  We will put out a small handful of dried food out for him
in his tray downstairs and his other tray upstairs.  We replace this
every 24 hours. If there is anything left it isn't much and we just
throw what is left.  Saves money to just put out a small amount of
fresh dried food, and your cat wants to eat it if it isn't stale.

John
Newbie - 03 Aug 2005 22:51 GMT
: Try giving her the packets of Whiskas in Jelly.  Especially the fish
: varieties.  Our cat loves this stuff.

She'll eat Friskies and Whiskas as they are, without any extra
incentive.

But I don't know how to encourage her to eat premium canned food that
has paste- or loaf-like texture. I have quite a few of those cans.

: We only put a small amount of dried Purina food out for him at any
: time, because dried food goes stale "VERY" quickly, and cats hate
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
: throw what is left.  Saves money to just put out a small amount of
: fresh dried food, and your cat wants to eat it if it isn't stale.

I didn't realize this. Wet food I can see drying up, but dry food looks
and smells the same to me after many hours. A few times I put the
uneaten dry portion back in the bag. Maybe this is why she doesn't like
dry as much now. Or it maybe she thinks/knows that if she doesn't eat
long enough I would eventually show up with a Friskies can.

One Petsmart emlpoyee suggestes mixing little bit of dry with canned
food (he said he does that). Some Nutro cans explicitly suggest that
too, 75% dry 25% canned if I remember correctly. But we haven't
bothered. We use very little dry and only rarely.
Michael Rhino - 04 Aug 2005 00:53 GMT
My cat also prefers Friskies to Science Diet dry food.  The previous owner
gave her Friskies.  I switched her to Science Diet for kittens.  She ate
that for a while.  When she was about 6 months old, I let her taste Friskies
and she never went back to Science Diet.  Once a day, I'll giver her a Nutro
Natural Choice  packet (Salmon or Tuna and Oceanfish).  She loves the gravy,
but doesn't eat the food (Nutro).  After licking the gravy, she'll go eat
some Friskies.
Shawn Hirn - 04 Aug 2005 13:25 GMT
> My cat simply refuses to eat any of the nutritious premium foods I have
> bought after much research! First I thought she simply doesn't like
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> break down and give her what she likes. So, between Friskies and
> Whiskas which one will be better for her?

I don't think it matters from a nutritional standpoint which brand of
food you feed your cat. I think those premium cat foods with premium
prices are just a way to separate consumers from their money. My cat
isn't a big fan of Science Diet and the other high end cat foods either,
but she will eat them.

My suggestion is that you let your cat decide which cat food brand she
likes best. My cat will eat most brands of sliced cat food, but she
really gets excited over Whiskas. I usually buy the brand that's on
sale. My cat's never complained.
Newbie - 04 Aug 2005 15:58 GMT
: I don't think it matters from a nutritional standpoint which brand of
: food you feed your cat. I think those premium cat foods with premium
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
: really gets excited over Whiskas. I usually buy the brand that's on
: sale. My cat's never complained.

I am hesitant to accept your premise. As with human junk food, it is
possible for manufacturers to offer 'food' that tastes good but
provides poor quality nutrition. Ill effects may take years to surface.
Please be careful.
Shawn Hirn - 04 Aug 2005 17:00 GMT
> : I don't think it matters from a nutritional standpoint which brand of
> : food you feed your cat. I think those premium cat foods with premium
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> provides poor quality nutrition. Ill effects may take years to surface.
> Please be careful.

This is only anecdotal evidence, but my cat is around 15 years old.
Other than a minor thyroid problem, my cat is healthy on the food I
provide for her. My cat visits the vet for a check up with full blood
work roughly every six months, so I now of what I speak.  My cat is fed
roughly about 75% dry food and 25% canned. I buy whatever's cheapest,
but I buy her Whiskas if the price is not much different than the
cheapest food.

I think those expensive high end pet foods are all marketing and no
substance. I am 43 and I have had cats for pets as long as I can
remember. My parents fed one of their cats Science Diet canned food
exclusively. Its longevity was no better than our cats who are fed the
bargain priced cat food. Of course, if you feel better by spending more
money on premium cat food, more power to you.
Newbie - 04 Aug 2005 18:02 GMT
: This is only anecdotal evidence, but my cat is around 15 years old.
: Other than a minor thyroid problem, my cat is healthy on the food I
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
: but I buy her Whiskas if the price is not much different than the
: cheapest food.

Thank you for sharing your experience. Please let me clarify one
general point: I know that if I ate by taste alone, I would not be very
healthy. I have been fearing the same may be true for my cat too. But
that does not mean that any particular brand is necessarily bad, and
certainly not merely because it is inexpensive.

Friskies and Whiskas are two brands my cat likes (hence the title of
this thread). I am happy to learn from Phil that Friskies is good
quality, and now from your experience that Whiskas may be fine too.

BTW when you say 75% dry and 25% canned, do you mean 3 meals
dry followed by 1 meal canned, or some dry and some canned each meal
but served separately, or dry and canned mixed together each time?

Are both canned and dry from Whiskas? Do you give your cat any treats?

: I think those expensive high end pet foods are all marketing and no
: substance. I am 43 and I have had cats for pets as long as I can
: remember. My parents fed one of their cats Science Diet canned food
: exclusively. Its longevity was no better than our cats who are fed the
: bargain priced cat food. Of course, if you feel better by spending more
: money on premium cat food, more power to you.

My goal is to identify good nutrition that my cat will eat and then go
for the lowest prices: mostly; she can have an expensive treat now and
then. :) At stores near me, I can buy Friskies/Whiskas for 30-35 c, and
many premiums for 50-70 c.
Shawn Hirn - 04 Aug 2005 20:28 GMT
> : This is only anecdotal evidence, but my cat is around 15 years old.
> : Other than a minor thyroid problem, my cat is healthy on the food I
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Are both canned and dry from Whiskas? Do you give your cat any treats?

My cat is fed a variety of different brands of dry and canned foods.
Whiskas dry and canned are the two brands my cat likes the most. My cat
definitely prefers canned more than the dry food though. She eats a lot
of different styles of canned food, but by far her favorite is the
sliced beef. If I put a can of sliced beef out for her, my cat will
typically polish it off in an hour or two, but the other kinds take her
much longer to finish.

Because I tend to be away from home a lot during the day, I also always
keep a steady supply of dry food available for my cat. I use one of
those cat food dispensers what drops dried food into its bowl as the
bowl gets emptied by my cat. Every other night or so, I give my cat one
can of food (frequently Whiskas, but not always). One or two weekend
mornings, I also feed my cat canned food. That's how I come up with the
25% number. Its not a hard and fast number.

I have tried feeding my cat, those treat nugget things, but for some
reason, she completely ignores them. If I hold a treat out to her in my
hand, all she'll do is sniff at it. If I put some treats in the bowl
with her canned food, she eats around them. Its strange because my cat
is otherwise, not a fussy eater. So, for me, spending money on those cat
treats is a total waste of my money.

> My goal is to identify good nutrition that my cat will eat and then go
> for the lowest prices: mostly; she can have an expensive treat now and
> then. :) At stores near me, I can buy Friskies/Whiskas for 30-35 c, and
> many premiums for 50-70 c.

Check with your vet too for advise. I rarely buy premium brands for my
cat. Most of the time, when I give my cat a new premium variety of food,
she gives it the cold shoulder. I only try the premium brands if they
are on sale and if I haven't given them to my cat before. I guess I am
lucky, because my cat will eat almost anything, yet it sure seems to
have a preference for the cheaper cat foods. I prefer not to spend money
on those premium brands because she typically will ignore them, so any
improved nutritional benefits they may offer is usually wasted on my cat.
Newbie - 04 Aug 2005 21:09 GMT
Thank you for sharing your experience again. I appreciate the details.

: My cat is fed a variety of different brands of dry and canned foods.
: Whiskas dry and canned are the two brands my cat likes the most...
: If I put a can of sliced beef out for her, my cat will typically polish it
: off in an hour or two, but the other kinds take her much longer to
: finish.

How long can you leave the dry and canned food before your cat decides
they are too stale to eat?

: I rarely buy premium brands for my cat. Most of the time, when I
: give my cat a new premium variety of food, she gives it the cold
: shoulder. I only try the premium brands if they are on sale and if
: I haven't given them to my cat before. I guess I am lucky, because
: my cat will eat almost anything, yet it sure seems to have a
: preference for the cheaper cat foods....

I too should feel lucky, my cat has shown a strong prference for
inexpensive canned food. I have tried just about everything available
in local stores, up to about $1/can, yet she is happiest with 30 cent
cans. In fact I am having a really hard time using up the premium cans
I accumulated on sales. :)

I was moved to try premiums because of the "byproducts" and
"carbohydrate" controversy. I guess you have decided/found that they
don't matter?
Ollie Clark - 05 Aug 2005 10:39 GMT
> How long can you leave the dry and canned food before your cat decides
> they are too stale to eat?

For our cats you can leave the dried food out for days at a time and
they'll still eat it. Canned, about 30 minutes...

Signature

              http://www.ollieclark.com/acronyms.html

Phil P. - 05 Aug 2005 15:26 GMT
> > How long can you leave the dry and canned food before your cat decides
> > they are too stale to eat?
>
> For our cats you can leave the dried food out for days at a time and
> they'll still eat it.

You shouldn't put down any more food than the cat's daily caloric
requirement.  Whatever food the cat doesn't eat in a day should be thrown
away, the bowl washed, and refilled with only enough fresh food to fulfill
the cat's daily caloric requirement.

>Canned, about 30 minutes...

When feeding canned food, the cat's daily caloric requirement should be
divided into two feedings- about 12 hours apart.  You shouldn't put down any
more canned food than the cat can eat in 30-45 minutes.  Whatever food that
the cat doesn't eat in that time should be thrown away.  If you follow this
pattern for a few days the cat will learn to eat her entire ration in about
30 minutes.
Shawn Hirn - 05 Aug 2005 12:18 GMT
> Thank you for sharing your experience again. I appreciate the details.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> How long can you leave the dry and canned food before your cat decides
> they are too stale to eat?

My cat's dry food is dispensed from one of those automatic dispensers,
so the cat always has just the right amount for its needs. Other than
the dry food that accidentally gets on the floor, I have never had dry
food go uneaten by my cat. Canned food is a different story. It depends
on the type of food. The sliced meat in gravy almost always gets
completely eaten within an hour or two. The canned cat food that is
flakey style like tuna can and does something sit and rot because my cat
does not always gobble it up fast enough. I would say that takes about
twelve hours, but I really don't pay enough attention to it to be sure.

> : I rarely buy premium brands for my cat. Most of the time, when I
> : give my cat a new premium variety of food, she gives it the cold
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> "carbohydrate" controversy. I guess you have decided/found that they
> don't matter?

Yup. Unless I see some oddities in my cat's blood work that require a
better diet to correct, I will continue feeding my cat as I do.
Phil P. - 05 Aug 2005 15:28 GMT
> Thank you for sharing your experience again. I appreciate the details.
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> "carbohydrate" controversy. I guess you have decided/found that they
> don't matter?

Do your own research- a lot of people talking about feline nutrition are
totally clueless about feline nutrition- including many vets.  In fact, most
vets are 'educated' in feline nutrition by the pet food companies' sales
reps.
Phil P. - 05 Aug 2005 15:27 GMT
> Because I tend to be away from home a lot during the day, I also always
> keep a steady supply of dry food available for my cat. I use one of
> those cat food dispensers what drops dried food into its bowl as the
> bowl gets emptied by my cat.

If you're away from home most of the day, simply put out just enough food to
meet your cat's daily caloric requirement and throw out any uneaten food
everyday.

Gravity feeders are disgusting because they're rarely washed and fresh food
is often poured over old food. When cats eat they drop saliva-moistened
crumbs back into bowl.  Air + moisture + food = excellent breeding ground
for bacteria. The new food that drops into the bowl from the hopper gets
contaminated by the bacteria-laden food that's already in bowl that hasn't
been washed for who
knows how long.
Newbie - 05 Aug 2005 20:18 GMT
: Gravity feeders are disgusting because they're rarely washed and fresh food
: is often poured over old food. When cats eat they drop saliva-moistened
: crumbs back into bowl.  Air + moisture + food = excellent breeding ground
: for bacteria. The new food that drops into the bowl from the hopper gets
: contaminated by the bacteria-laden food that's already in bowl ...

Then I may already have blundered out of ingnorance...

I bought a 3 lb bag of Max Cat dry food. I use it rarely, mostly to
leave food out when I had to be away for several hours. Not knowing any
better, a few times I put the uneaten portion back in the bag. Should I
now regard the whole bag as contaminated and throw it away? I'd rather
not waste the food, but it is only about 1/2 of the bag left.

If I start over, what is the best dry food? I'd like to have a small
bag for similar situations, otherwise both me and my cat like cans.
Phil P. - 06 Aug 2005 00:50 GMT
> : Gravity feeders are disgusting because they're rarely washed and fresh food
> : is often poured over old food. When cats eat they drop saliva-moistened
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Then I may already have blundered out of ingnorance...

Don't feel bad- we all do at one time or another.  Caring for cats is
lifetime learning process and a never-ending work in progress.

> I bought a 3 lb bag of Max Cat dry food. I use it rarely, mostly to
> leave food out when I had to be away for several hours. Not knowing any
> better, a few times I put the uneaten portion back in the bag. Should I
> now regard the whole bag as contaminated and throw it away? I'd rather
> not waste the food, but it is only about 1/2 of the bag left.

I'd throw it away.  Even though Nutro offers a no-questions-asked 100% money
back guarantee, I wouldn't return the bag because most stores donate
returned pet food to shelters.

> If I start over, what is the best dry food?

I'm not a dry food proponent.  If cats were meant to eat cereal, they would
have evolved to look like a rabbit!  But if you must feed a small portion of
dry food, try Purina One- Chicken & Rice. The first ingredient is Chicken
and the nutrient values- especially phosphorus- are very good.

I'd like to have a small
> bag for similar situations, otherwise both me and my cat like cans.

If you're only feeding small portions of dry food, buy the smallest size bag
available, squeeze out the air, and keep it well sealed.  If small bags
aren't available in your area, put small aliquots of the dry food in ziplock
bags and keep them in the fridge.  Take one bag out at time, the day before,
and let it warm up to room temp. IOW, while they're eating one ziplock bag
today, another bag is warming up for tomorrow's feeding.
Newbie - 06 Aug 2005 06:13 GMT
: If cats were meant to eat cereal, they would have evolved to look
: like a rabbit!  But if you must feed a small portion of dry food,
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
: and let it warm up to room temp. IOW, while they're eating one ziplock bag
: today, another bag is warming up for tomorrow's feeding.

As far as I can, which is 99% of the time, I feed one 5.5-6oz can per
day. The cat never wants dry anyway. The dry is only for those times
when I must be away for several hours and must leave food out in
advance.

I have learned so much from your comments and would like to ask your
opinion on two other issues: Is it a good idea to give what is sold in
stores as "treats" to your cat? Similarly about catnip, whether to use
it and how (especially if it can be added to food)?
Phil P. - 07 Aug 2005 04:38 GMT
> : If cats were meant to eat cereal, they would have evolved to look
> : like a rabbit!  But if you must feed a small portion of dry food,
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> opinion on two other issues: Is it a good idea to give what is sold in
> stores as "treats" to your cat?

Sure- as long as the treats don't comprise of more than 10-15% of the cat's
daily caloric requirement.  I give my cats turkey and chicken breast chunks
from the deli as treats. My 'permanent' fosters only like the Friskie's
Tender Turkey treats. At least the first ingredient is turkey.

Similarly about catnip, whether to use
> it and how (especially if it can be added to food)?

I'll mix catnip in a prescription food if the cat won't eat the diet.
Otherwise, I fill sockes up with catnip and use them as toys.  Before you
use catnip, squish it to release the oils and make it more aromatic. Some
cats (about 1/3), however,  aren't turned on by catnip.
FatBobRoundPants - 06 Aug 2005 15:21 GMT
I'm now feeding my two cats Evo dry cat food.  I switched to this because of
all the things I've read about grain being bad for cats.  They both seem to
love it (I switched them very gradually over a 2 week period).

Of the two cats only one of them will eat wet food and that happens to be
Nutro Pouches in Tuna and fish.  My other cat wouldn't touch it so that is
why I switched to Evo.

> > : Gravity feeders are disgusting because they're rarely washed and fresh
> food
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> and let it warm up to room temp. IOW, while they're eating one ziplock bag
> today, another bag is warming up for tomorrow's feeding.
DL Farnworth - 05 Aug 2005 18:05 GMT
: I think those expensive high end pet foods are all marketing and no
: substance.

You may be right.  On the other hand, Smoky was a feral
who ate the dry food on the back porch.  Gradually, to
nurse him through abscesses and such, he'd get canned
food.  At first only cheap canned food but eventually
he got to the point that he expected the expensive
canned food, the stuff reserved for Tiffy, who's old
and likes only the best.

So their palates can be educated to detect some
difference.

Reminds me of Paul Tillich, isn't it, who said his cats
could recognize the oval shape of the French pate cans?
PipeDown - 04 Aug 2005 19:21 GMT
> My cat simply refuses to eat any of the nutritious premium foods I have
> bought after much research! First I thought she simply doesn't like
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> cans seem like rip offs to me, but she has turned down just about every
> other premium food I have tried, canned or dry.

I don't blame him.  I don't like (labeled as) healthy foods either.  I had a
cat live 21 years on Friskies dry food only.  She wasn't even interested in
any wet brands.

When my present cat gets finicky I put some flake fish food on top and he
will eat anything.  The stuff must be like frosting to him and its pretty
nutritious too.
Newbie - 04 Aug 2005 19:52 GMT
: I don't blame him.  I don't like (labeled as) healthy foods either.  I had a
: cat live 21 years on Friskies dry food only.  She wasn't even interested in
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
: will eat anything.  The stuff must be like frosting to him and its pretty
: nutritious too.

By "flake fish food" do you mean some kind of cat food, or a can of
tuna (meant for humans), or pieces of fish filet (sold for human
consumption) something else? Sorry, I am mostly vegetarian myself and
not too up to date on this side of life.
PipeDown - 04 Aug 2005 20:49 GMT
> : I don't blame him.  I don't like (labeled as) healthy foods either.  I
> had a
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> consumption) something else? Sorry, I am mostly vegetarian myself and
> not too up to date on this side of life.

I mean food for fish that comes in flake form (as opposed to floating
pellets).  It is made out of dried fish products.  I just put a pinch or two
on top of the cat's food, about the same amount I fed the fish.

I'm sure your cat would also like fresh fish or canned tuna but that is
definitely not less expensive.  The most nutritious food I know of is raw
beef or poultry but as a vegetarian, you may not want to deal with that just
for kitty.

You can also supplement your cat's regular diet with vitamins (liquid or in
the form of treats) or if your cat is outdoors, he is likely supplementing
his own diet with bugs and an occasional mouse or bird.

Mostly I just stay away from foods with high non-nutritious filler content
(ash, bone meal etc) which is mainly used by the cheapest brands.

Also if you are looking to save $ on pet food, buy at the big pet chain
stores instead of the supermarket and you will save quite a bit.  If the
regular brands were all that bad, people would stop buying them.  For the
most part they are quite adequate for the pets.  The premium brands, though
they do in fact contain more nutritious and pure ingredients may exceed the
dietary requirements of most pets.  They are good products but overkill
IMHO.   Though, particularly for indoor cats, you may also notice a
difference on the odor from the litter box, which may be worth the extra
expense right there.
Newbie - 05 Aug 2005 06:27 GMT
: I'm sure your cat would also like fresh fish or canned tuna but that is
: definitely not less expensive.  The most nutritious food I know of is raw
: beef or poultry but as a vegetarian, you may not want to deal with that
: just for kitty.

Others in my family can handle those things, we are not dogmatic about
it. If we dice up some uncooked chicken breast, is that good for the
cat? Of course it won't be complete food for her, as I am sure it won't
for humans either. But will it work as occasional treat?
Gary Stone - 05 Aug 2005 08:03 GMT
> : I'm sure your cat would also like fresh fish or canned tuna but that is
> : definitely not less expensive.  The most nutritious food I know of is
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> cat? Of course it won't be complete food for her, as I am sure it won't
> for humans either. But will it work as occasional treat?

I wont give my cats raw chicken, don't know if they are prone to suffering
salmonella poisoning or not. When I cook chicken, I make sure a couple of
pieces are un-seasoned and un-breaded, let it cool and then let them snack
on that over a period of a couple of days as a treat.

Stone
Some pic's  http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/stoneman72/my_photos
Fat Freddy - 05 Aug 2005 15:27 GMT
> The most nutritious food I know of is
>  raw beef or poultry but as a vegetarian,
>  you may not want to deal with that just for kitty.

We are also vegetarians so the only "meat" our cats get is what's in
their catfood. They eat Nutro and Chicken Soup dried and ProPlan canned
food.

I thought it would be a great treat for them to get some "real meat" so
i bought some chicken livers. My cats wouldn't touch it. I tried some
other chicken, both raw and cooked. They wouldn't eat that either.

I got some hamburger. They tasted a little bit of that, they preferred
it raw, but really didn't care too much for it.

I remember when I was a kid, raw meat, especially chicken livers, would
drive our cats crazy. They loved it and if you tried to take it away
from them, they would get really upset.

I don't know why my cats don't like it.
Ollie Clark - 05 Aug 2005 10:43 GMT
>: I'm sure your cat would also like fresh fish or canned tuna but that is
>: definitely not less expensive.  The most nutritious food I know of is raw
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> cat? Of course it won't be complete food for her, as I am sure it won't
> for humans either. But will it work as occasional treat?

No, you should cook the chicken before you give it to her. Other than
that, it's fine as a treat (if she'll eat it - ours don't really like any
'human' meat).

Signature

              http://www.ollieclark.com/acronyms.html

Jen M. - 08 Aug 2005 07:24 GMT
I switched my cats to EVO and can tell a considerable difference in them.
They have trimmed a bit--and one has gained weight.  Their coats look
wonderful and they seem much better.

I don't give them snacks--they were not interested in them.  I will give them
a can of tuna every now and then.  Haven't gotten the nerve up yet to give
them raw chicken necks--though many people talk highly about this.

Phil--what is your opinion of EVO?

EVO is mega-expensive.  $36 for a 15 lb. bag.  A bag last about a month.  So,
for three cats--that isn't too bad.  Figured it at $3 per cat per week (3
cats)--the feed supply where I buy it at has a stamp card thing--every 10th
bag is free--so that helps.

I don't empty out the old food--I stir it in with the new food--too expensive
to throw away--and the cats eat it and we have had no health problems.

Now that I think of it--does 15 lbs sound right for a month--seems very
little comes to like .16 lbs per cat per day--hhmmm--though the are healthy.

Thanks,
Jen

>>: I'm sure your cat would also like fresh fish or canned tuna but that is
>>: definitely not less expensive.  The most nutritious food I know of is raw
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>that, it's fine as a treat (if she'll eat it - ours don't really like any
>'human' meat).
Phil P. - 08 Aug 2005 08:24 GMT
> Phil--what is your opinion of EVO?

The promotional literature sounds good- for a dry food- (it always does),
but EVO hasn't been out long enough to see  how well a large number cats do
on it for a long period of time.  I'm not a dry food proponent, but I
wouldn't try or recommend *any* new food until its been out on the market
for a least a couple of years.  Most of the problems with new foods (and
drugs) start to show up after its been on the market for awhile and has been
used by thousands of cats (or people).  I don't want my cats to be
post-marketing guinea pigs.

Phil
Jen M. - 08 Aug 2005 20:12 GMT
What type of food and brand do you feel comfortable with?

I can't tell a remarkable improvement with my cats on EVO--hhmm.

Thanks,
Jen

>> Phil--what is your opinion of EVO?
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>Phil
Phil P. - 09 Aug 2005 05:04 GMT
> What type of food and brand do you feel comfortable with?

Diets that are low in phosphorus- such as Wysong Gourmet Chicken Dinner,
Perguard Chicken & Rice and Rabbit & Rice, all Science Diet products, and
certain Fancy Feast and Friskies diets.

I'm not a dry food proponent because of the lower water intake and turnover
and lower digestibility, but Purina One Chicken & Rice is pretty good- for a
dry food.

Phil
Linda R - 08 Aug 2005 21:10 GMT
I realize that we are now in the modern age of super food for cats.  Frankly,
I have raised almost every cat I ever had on Friskies.  (And I always train
them to human baby food in case of a serious illness you can usually get it
down 'em.)  They love Friskies wet and dry, and they all lived very long
lives - one of them lived into her early 20s and she was a pound adoption.  I
had an 18 year old tabby alley cat that finally died just last year of renal
disease and I did put her on Science Diet K/D at the end and I believe it did
her some good.  I dated a guy who worked the graveyard shift at a popular
over-the-counter crunchy pet food and I can tell you the "meat" went in 1
scoop at a time - and the sawdust was dropped in from a huge overhead
container.  America's pets had been eating that food since before World War
II.  This is very controversial and I guess you have to experiment, read the
label, and try it out just as some moms have to do with human babies.  But to
this day I can't forget the Friskies served 'em well for many years.

>My cat simply refuses to eat any of the nutritious premium foods I have
>bought after much research! First I thought she simply doesn't like
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>cans seem like rip offs to me, but she has turned down just about every
>other premium food I have tried, canned or dry.
Jen M. - 09 Aug 2005 00:41 GMT
Interesting--I will think about this.

Thank you,
Jen

>I realize that we are now in the modern age of super food for cats.  Frankly,
>I have raised almost every cat I ever had on Friskies.  (And I always train
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>>cans seem like rip offs to me, but she has turned down just about every
>>other premium food I have tried, canned or dry.
 
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