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Cat Forum / General Topics / July 2005Ferocious, Biting, Ravage, Pain-Inflicting Cat
Okay, so perhaps he is not quite that bad, but he does bite. He's a year old, indoor, neutered American Shorthair and I love him so, but he bites. I'm okay with him biting if I invade his space; I understand that if he doesn't want to be petted that I should just stay away. He terrorizes my fiancee though. We were living together when we got him so it is not like he is responding to a new element in his territory. The problem is that we can both be ignoring him and he will do this: he will sit a few feet from her and then just attack and dig in with his teeth. Sometime she will be pull her hands away and cower away from him, but he still does it. It's unprovoked and I'm wondering if anyone has advice on what we might do to calm this cat (he is neutered). Thanks, David. One of our present cats was like that for a couple years after we gave him a home. He is front declawed & left eye is blind & he is *big* - 19 or 20#. He has, since 2000, mellowed bigtime w/lots of love but we believe his biting originates from being declawed (his last defense is biting) but he's a bully on top of everything else. Our original cat, taken in 1 year ahead of him, has all her claws and when he starts w/her (she's old & doesn't want to play w/him when he starts w/her) gives him as good as she gets (she's big also, around 14# w/all her claws! I suggest your fiancee (and you) begin doing what I used to do and rarely have to for several years now: slap his nose when he bites and say loud & firm, "NO!". He has to learn that he is not running things there because you are both afraid of him. When he's not acting ugly, pet & kiss him (well, I do) & say loving things to him. Rowdy changed and yours can too.No cowering from his hoomins...... > Okay, so perhaps he is not quite that bad, but he does bite. He's a > year old, indoor, neutered American Shorthair and I love him so, but he [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > David. sounds like he just wants to play, but doesn't know that the biting is not your idea of play. When kittens, if a kitten would bite too hard, the sibling would cry out then stop all movement then walk away. I have found for biters, if you say "OW" in a kitten like cry and stop all movement, the cats stop, look at you puzzled and often will try again. Say the ow again, and usually they get it fairly quickly. (couple of days.. maybe a week) However, I have had kittens who don't care. I do advocate showing a cat who is in charge, but only after a few loud warnings. Do the ow, then say NO in a loud commanding voice at least twice, then boink on the nose or tush where it is not harmful, but it isn't comfortable. Cats can be trained, you just need to speak their language. > Okay, so perhaps he is not quite that bad, but he does bite. He's a > year old, indoor, neutered American Shorthair and I love him so, but he [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > David. > Okay, so perhaps he is not quite that bad, but he does bite. He's a > year old, indoor, neutered American Shorthair and I love him so, but he [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > David. I agree with other posters. He just wants to play. My female does that too. She's the same age as yours and has been spayed. She also has her front claws removed. (Don't yell at me, we've already had that conversation on here :) I have done the meow like you're in pain thing and it really does work. She just stared at me for a few seconds and tries again. She still does it, but now she'll try biting less hard on the second try and eventually licks me wherever she bit me. Which gets rewarded with lots of happy talking and petting. She calmed down for a while, but I went to Italy for 3 weeks and she got really over zealous with the biting but she's calmed down since I've been home for a while. It may not seem like it, but she just wants attention. So reprimand her with a light tap on the nose if nothing else works. Mine just plops on the floor and rolls on her back and stares at me and meows until I come pet her. Sometimes she's in a biting mood and will try to bat at my hands and nip at me. So I've found that coming at her slowly and talking softly will also calm her down because she sees I'm not in a rowdy mood too. I hope all that helps. Just remember, as someone told me on here, they're love bites :) She just wants to play. Beth Thank you for the replies everyone! I have heard the "love nibbles" remark before and I do think Buddy (my cat) does love nibble from time to time and sometimes his bites are for play, but I believe these attacks he does to Jen are a bit different. If she tries to play with him with a toy, stick, string, or anything else, he still focuses on biting her, ears back and tail wagging like a happy puppy (not good signs of course) It seems like a dominance issue and no amount of sound seems to affect it (crying or yelling). He often opens wide and tries to grab a hand with both paws before sinking his teeth in when one approaches to flick his nose (the nose flicking was attempted in the past) so it has been difficult to find a solution here. We've been scared to wack him on the head or the butt (he had an FHO on a hind leg about 6 months ago) in the past but have tried finding the degree of head wack that gets his attention over the last couple of days. He has still been going in for at least one or two good bites each day, but I think he is getting the point. Please let me know if this sounds like something that is dangerous to him... We're not hitting him with all out force by any means; the reason I think it is probably safe is because I'm sure he hits his head much harder himself when running into things or miscalculating a daring jump. I hope this is something that comes to a conclusion soon; him nibbling my toes, although painful, does not bother me all that much, but when he's drawing blood things are going too far. For the most part he is a playful, cuddly, head-rubbing (sebumming), adorable furball. If anyone is home he is usually within feet and I guess my biggest fear is making him so scared of us that he won't come around like this in the future. I'll update the thread next week! Thanks again, David : We've been scared to wack him on the head or the butt (he had an FHO on : a hind leg about 6 months ago) in the past but have tried finding the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] : probably safe is because I'm sure he hits his head much harder himself : when running into things or miscalculating a daring jump. You don't need to hit the cat - take a rolled up newspaper and hit your hand, if you like you can shout no, no! too. This also works well with dogs. Carola > Thank you for the replies everyone! I have heard the "love nibbles" > remark before and I do think Buddy (my cat) does love nibble from time [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > David I understand the fear that it is just ferocious behavior and that it's also a stand for dominance in the house. I know it may seem like it but I'm not sure it is that. My kitty has been known to scratch with her back paws and grab at my hand to bite it. I went to Europe for three weeks and left her at home and a friend came to house/cat sit and said she was fine the whole time. When I got home she started biting at me again. I had puncture marks on my leg and she drew blood a couple times over the first few days. I did actually have to spank her little behind once to get her off my arm. Nothing hard or repeating. But it got her off. She calmed down with the hard biting but is still running up to me and biting at me when she wants to play. She doesn't leave any type of mark now, she's just hyper active and wants to chase the string she stole from one of my sweatshirts. When she gets in the "mean looking" biting moods her ears are back too but if her tail is wagging then I t hink that's a sign she's not actually mad. My cat sits with her ears back and her teeth showing a little when she's attacking her string that I'm pulling around the room. She's a pouncer and she goes to town on it when I let it stop for a second. You might want to try a toy like that to get the attention off of Jen's skin. I know I'm starting to ramble a bit, but I just want to hopefully reassure you that it's probably just your kitty not knowing any better yet. It sounds like it's starting to get the idea though. Hopefully the sound cues will work once it gets the idea and soon the reign of terror will be over :) We pop Rowdy on his *nose* not his head, when he grabs a hoomin appendage & goes to bite it (hand, toe, foot, arm, etc.) Loud "NO" goes w/the pop! He knows! But it took years to get him where he is now (loving and not needing the "pop" most of the time). Patience. >> Thank you for the replies everyone! I have heard the "love nibbles" >> remark before and I do think Buddy (my cat) does love nibble from time [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > Hopefully the sound cues will work once it gets the idea and soon the > reign of terror will be over :) I had a cat Zimba just like this--playful and loving--but did the biting thing. Come to find out that is how cats 'rumble' and 'row'--have those times of play that look fierce. He was declawed--so I could do this--I would hold his head and he would wrestle with all his might for about five minutes and then be done. He loved it. If I wasn't at a place that I had time to play with him--he kept trying to put his head in my head in 'wrestle position'. Often, Zimba sought out this kind of play when he was bored too. Can you wrestle the heck out of him early when you get home, or when you see him 'winding up'? I certainly wish you the best! Sincerely, Jen >We pop Rowdy on his *nose* not his head, when he grabs a hoomin appendage & >goes to bite it (hand, toe, foot, arm, etc.) Loud "NO" goes w/the pop! He [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> Hopefully the sound cues will work once it gets the idea and soon the >> reign of terror will be over :) Hmmm... I just tried to wrestle him... He got a pretty good chunk of skin out of my hand... Getting blood all over the keyboard now. He does look satisfied though. Really... I have two ways to stop the teeth from getting my hands when we're playing: 1. Put my hand around his neck (from the front) and keep it close enough so that my fingers are under his chin. Problem is that this feels a bit too tight and I am scared that if he squirms too much I'll end up squeezing his neck, causing him to squirm more, making the squeeze seriously injure him... He used to have to undergo a similar procedure when his front claws were getting clipped (we've since worked out a two-person method of clipping his claws that keeps him relatively free- distraction). 2. Put my hand through a thick blanket and let him dig into that. I've tried grabbing the back of his head but he puts up too much of a fight and I don't feel comfortable holding his head with that much tossing and pulling... I'd hate for his neck to get hurt. Thanks for all the suggestions though everyone. He has been looking more like he is walking on thin ice when he goes in for an attack now than he did a week ago. Now he doesn't send out 30 seconds of "I'm about to try to eat you" before sinking his teeth in; it's more of a suprise attack lately. As another update to this, I just wrestled some more with him, with my hand under a blanket. I think you may definitely be on to something Jen; Buddy seems to love it. He still gets some serious bites, but nothing like bare skin. He wraps his front paws aroud my arm to hold on, but doesn't use much claw luckily. Afterwards I pet him with my bare hand and he seemed to react much kinder to it. Perhaps if he gets a daily wrestle and reminders about biting skin we can reach a happy compromise here! :) <snips> > procedure when his front claws were getting clipped (we've since worked > out a two-person method of clipping his claws that keeps him relatively > free- distraction). YMMV, but I don't clip claws (unless they're broken); gives them less to be frustrated about and they have (and use) scratching posts. > Now he doesn't send out 30 seconds of "I'm > about to try to eat you" before sinking his teeth in; it's more of a > suprise attack lately. I like the "Prepare To Die, Puny Human" warning; gives me time to attack the cat, first. Even though I prefer to take on the cats "bare-handed", I'm surprised others haven't popped in with suggestions of playing with him with a toy (ball of paper on a string or something) to get him used to not attacking people. pat <snips> > YMMV, but I don't clip claws (unless they're broken); gives them less to > be frustrated about and they have (and use) scratching posts. Two reasons we've clipped. First is because as the claws grow longer Buddy's ability to climb us (rather than the scratching post) increases- this hurts. Second is because he'll chew on his claws after a few weeks; I always figured he was bothered by them being long! > I like the "Prepare To Die, Puny Human" warning; gives me time to attack > the cat, first. It is nice when he decides to warn first! > Even though I prefer to take on the cats "bare-handed", I'm surprised > others haven't popped in with suggestions of playing with him with a toy > (ball of paper on a string or something) to get him used to not > attacking people. Actually that's the solution I've read and seen most often, and it doesn't seem to work for us. Jen especially has tried this, in hopes that he would at least get off of her (when he's in "DOMINANT KITTY" mode). Balls have been thrown, strings, sticks, yarn, and food has been offered. For a cat that is usually shows signs of severe ADD, when he is getting ready to attack nothing seems to take his attention away! I received an email directing me to a website that suggested to a) not pull your hand away and b) ignore the cat. It's difficult to ignore teeth drawing blood from your hand... Hard not to pull your hand away from that too ;). If not for those two complications I would give it a try. The site mentioned that this sort of behavior is often learned from kittenhood. Buddy has indeed liked to bite since he was a kitten. We sought advice then but failed to teach him (didn't try the usenet unfortunately- SO many ideas have been offered here). I am continuing with the daily (hand-covered) wrestle. I was scared playing with him like this would just encourage similar behavior but with the enjoyment he seems to get out of it and his respect for bare skin afterwards, I think it may just be the opposite... I do wonder, if I get him in this habit, what will happen if I forget to wrestle him for a day... heh.. Great support in this group! > pat Any grown cat that draws blood from me (on purpose) had better have a damn good reason (that *I* agree with) or gets a smack in the head. I've been accidentally scratched (holding the schizo cat during a thunderstorm wasn't my most brilliant idea) and cats have their "lines in the sand" too; one hates having her tail brushed or pulled; since it's her tail I have no problem with that. Climbing up a pants leg as you allude to is behaviour that should have stopped at around 4 months old. Even at that age the cat can tell it's causing you pain and will stop; or simply grab the cat by the scruff of the neck or "armpits" and removing. Cats respond quite well to lines being drawn as long as you're clear and not abusive about it. My cats may not know why I object to them scratching the furniture, but they have a scratching post so their needs are taken care of in that respect. They may think I'm being territorial about the kitchen counter but they get fed so they're not too worried about my idiosyncracies. If you have a pet, it's your responsibility to make sure it's well balanced; if it's an indoor cat your reponsibilities include a certain amount of socializing. As far as rough play is concerned... attack first. Give kitty the "I'm Going To Eat You!!! routine" which gives him plenty of time to figure out which way to run when you lunge. When he looks to be in an uninvited "attack mode" snap your hand out and give him a noogie. > <snips> > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > >>pat Per davidd31415: >1. Put my hand around his neck (from the front) and keep it close >2. Put my hand through a thick blanket and let him dig into that. 3. Welding gloves.  SignaturePeteCresswell > Per davidd31415: >>1. Put my hand around his neck (from the front) and keep it close > >>2. Put my hand through a thick blanket and let him dig into that. > > 3. Welding gloves. 4. Tazer? :) |
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