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Cat Forum / General Topics / July 2005Cat Overpopulation
Well, I don't know if any of you recall me saying something about going to Italy this summer and asking for traveling tips. At any rate, I just got back from a 3 week trip and I have to say that while it was utterly amazing, I was so upset by the huge stray cat problem they have there! There were poor little stray kitties everywhere. They apparently don't have any sort of humane society system like we have in the states. My professor ( I was there for a study abroad class) told us about a shelter in Rome that is actually on the site of some temple ruins and we actually saw the temple and at least 50 cats just hanging around it. But other than that, he didn't know of much else that went on. It was so sad. When we were at the site of Ostia there was a nice snack area and there was this really skinny cat that was sitting under everyone's tables. So my friends and I gave it some tuna from our salads and some water. I'm just not used to seeing so many strays around. I wish there was something I could do to help. Anyway, just thought I'd bring some awareness to the situation. I know I would have been upset by it had I gone before I got a cat, but now that I have one I was just so much more saddened by the whole thing. Beth >Well, I don't know if any of you recall me saying something about going to >Italy this summer and asking for traveling tips. At any rate, I just got >back from a 3 week trip and I have to say that while it was utterly amazing, Did you say hello to the pope for me? ------------------------------------------ http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com >>Well, I don't know if any of you recall me saying something about going to >>Italy this summer and asking for traveling tips. At any rate, I just got [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption > =---- : Well, I don't know if any of you recall me saying something about going to : Italy this summer and asking for traveling tips. At any rate, I just got [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] : just so much more saddened by the whole thing. : Beth It's exactly the way you describe it. The best thing would be to find the address of some politician before the elections and write a letter like the text you posted here. Btw the ancient town Pompeii has literally gone to the dogs. Carola > : Well, I don't know if any of you recall me saying something about going > to [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Carola Oh my God you are so right!! There were just packs of dogs everywhere! I was all caught up in the cats since I'm a cat owner but that was so sad too. It was awful seeing all of them just running around. We went there twice and both times there were dogs following us. The whole animal population there is just out of control. Beth >Well, I don't know if any of you recall me saying something about going to >Italy this summer and asking for traveling tips. At any rate, I just got [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >just so much more saddened by the whole thing. >Beth It's because there are too many catholics over there who don't believe in birth control. > Well, I don't know if any of you recall me saying something about going to > Italy this summer and asking for traveling tips. At any rate, I just got > back from a 3 week trip and I have to say that while it was utterly amazing, > I was so upset by the huge stray cat problem they have there! There were > poor little stray kitties everywhere. They apparently don't have any sort > of humane society system like we have in the states. Backward furriners! Stray cats are common in many European cities, and have been around since the Middle Ages. You want the busybodies from the 'human society' to round them up and 'put them to sleep'? It may come as a surprise to you, but America is not the ultimate model the rest of the world aspires to. When you go abroad, try to open your mind a little bit. Let me guess, it was your first time overseas? >> Well, I don't know if any of you recall me saying something about going to >> Italy this summer and asking for traveling tips. At any rate, I just got [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >since the Middle Ages. You want the busybodies from the 'human society' >to round them up and 'put them to sleep'? How about educating the public that it's not a sin to fix your pet? And someone should round them up - they're a health hazard. I don't remember seeing any stray cats in France or Germany, although maybe they had all flown south for the winter. >It may come as a surprise to you, but America is not the ultimate model >the rest of the world aspires to. It may come as a surprise to you, but Europe isn't the ultimate model that Americans wish to aspire to. >When you go abroad, try to open your mind a little bit. Let me guess, >it was your first time overseas? >> Well, I don't know if any of you recall me saying something about going >> to Italy this summer and asking for traveling tips. At any rate, I just [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > When you go abroad, try to open your mind a little bit. Let me guess, > it was your first time overseas? Excuse me? But I'm not sure where I said that Europeans should aspire to be the like Americans. I enjoyed the cultural experience very much. Is it wrong for me to feel sorry for these poor creatures who are starving? Something needs to be done. They are a health hazard and yes, I agree that something should be done about getting them fixed. Let's not get into any "stupid American" arguments here. I'm sorry, but opening my mind included learning how to order in Italian and seeing the cultural interactions between early cultures...but not watching defenseless animals starve to death and limp around on 3 legs because one of them was obviously hurt but not treated. Yes it was my first time abroad, but I think that had it been my 50th, I still would have been bothered by this. Hell, I'm bothered when I see a stray around my apartment building and I call someone to come get it. It's not being closed minded...it's being compassionate. The poor things need someone to look after them, and not every humane society has a "put them to sleep" policy. I actually don't know how you could even make those comments. Assuming that because I'm American I think that I'm better or that my way of life is better than Europeans is being closed minded. I was actually rather in awe of my surroundings the entire time I was there. I loved every bit of the experience, except maybe the metro in Rome and of course the kitty/puppy problem. It may be my left over jet lag making me cranky here...but do not tell me that I am being closed minded when you are the one who obviously needs some help in that department. Seriously...you're just being ridiculous. You see someone who is American and assume that she or he must have some superiority complex. However, if that is every European's view...that the thousands of stray animals is ok...then yeah...you do need some help because that is just cruel. I need to stop writing now because the more I think about it the more pissed I get. Italy was a beautiful place with lots of very nice people and I miss it already. I'm just extremely offended that someone could actually have the nerve to call me closed minded when that person obviously needs to look in the mirror. You may not feel as compelled to protect these creatures, but some of us animal lovers are heartbroken to see them in pain. I can't imagine my little furbaby in that position and I would hope that if yours ever got away from you that you would see the need for someone to help it. Beth >You see someone who is American >and assume that she or he must have some superiority complex. I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that 223rem was American too or at least living in the US. If there's one thing worse than a euro-snob attitude towards Americans from euro-snobs, it's that same attitude from others Americans. There are some things I wish we did like Europe, but letting stray cats and dogs run amok is not one of them. I'm not sure feeding them scraps from the table helps though - it tends to exacerbate the problem, just like feeding the pigeons. Or ducks. I saw this clip on RealTV (or something like that show) of a lady who had a couple of ducks land in her pool. She started feeding them and more ducks came and she just kept on feeding them until she was overwhelmed and finally realized the only to make them go away was to stop feeding them. 2 ducks in your backyard are a charming addition. Several hundred ducks are a serious problem. >>You see someone who is American >>and assume that she or he must have some superiority complex. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > 2 ducks in your backyard are a charming addition. Several hundred > ducks are a serious problem. Humans are far worse pests than any animals. Seagulls, pigeons, ducks, stray cats, dogs, racoons, etc. are just feeding on the garbage we pollute the environment with. ... >> 2 ducks in your backyard are a charming addition. Several hundred >> ducks are a serious problem. > >Humans are far worse pests than any animals. Does it surprise you that I'm not a huge advocate of welfare (for humans)? > Seagulls, pigeons, ducks, stray cats, >dogs, racoons, etc. are just feeding on the garbage we pollute the environment with. I once had a raccoon that lived above me, and she wasn't just eating garbage - she would break in and steal stuff that we were planning to eat. I'm sorry if I offended you, I thought you subscribed to the Fox News-Bush viewpoint that America is God's gift to the world. : Assuming that because I'm American I think that I'm better : or that my way of life is better than Europeans is being closed minded. : You see someone who is American : and assume that she or he must have some superiority complex. However, if : that is every European's view... Beth, I know exactly what you mean and I share your opinion 100 %! The problem is there all over the Mediterranean area, don't ask me why. But I have to say something here, and, I know, it's out of thread. I'm not saying this grudgingly, I don't want to offend either - it's just the way I feel, and I'm *very* interested in the way my American cat friends feel about my opinion: Bush has done damage to the image of Americans in the world with Iraq and Kyoto (the climate thing), and it has gone down badly in Europe that he was re-elected. This does not justify that individual Americans get flamed. But I realise that the "Amis" are not quite aware about what's going on. I have been in America several times, and it is beautiful. I know many Americans, and they're all very nice. But do understand that there is some criticism about the US world politics. Love Carola >: Assuming that because I'm American I think that I'm better > : or that my way of life is better than Europeans is being closed minded. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Carola Oh believe me, I understand that. As someone who didn't actually vote for Bush, I understand a little more as I don't generally agree with his decisions. It was a combination of the dismissive attitude at the cat/dog overpopulation, the assumptions about my attitude, and the negative American attitude that got to me :) Obviously had my original post been read completely it was obvious I was just concerned for the poor animals. I understand that there are negative feelings and understand the reasons why they are there. I just don't appreciate being spoken to like I'm some simpleton who barely knows where Europe is. I was just mostly angered by the "ah, that's just the way it is" attitude about the strays. I was very upset by the whole situation when I was there. But I can appreciate a well put statement like yours any day. Thank you for trying to clarify and for being respectful in doing so. Where is it that you're from, by the way? Beth >attitude that got to me :) Obviously had my original post been read >completely it was obvious I was just concerned for the poor animals. I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >put statement like yours any day. Thank you for trying to clarify and for >being respectful in doing so. Where is it that you're from, by the way? Unfortunetly here in the United States too many here don't know where Europs is on a map, or even where Iraq is even though we are fighting a war there. As far as cats go, these are soveriegn countries. There are a number of countries that have problems with Ferel cats, some have even gone as far as to allow the killing of these cats. As much as I find it distateful to do this, these are soveriegn countries. We in the US can express our displeasure but beyond that it is the people who live in these countries who take the matter further. ------------------------------------------ http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com >>attitude that got to me :) Obviously had my original post been read >>completely it was obvious I was just concerned for the poor animals. I [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >beyond that it is the people who live in these countries who >take the matter further. I don't think she was doing much more than expressing her empathy for these cats and her wish that something could or would be done to help the situation. >------------------------------------------ > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups >----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- >>>attitude that got to me :) Obviously had my original post been read >>>completely it was obvious I was just concerned for the poor animals. I [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > these cats and her wish that something could or would be done to help > the situation. Yes, thank you. Apparently some of us just can't understand that. I wasn't saying, "Hey all of you superior Americans! Let's jump on a flight over to Europe and take care of these morons' cat and dog problem!" For the last time, I was simply saddened by it and wish that something was done about it so these innocent creatures didn't have to live that way. I in no way feel that because I'm American I'm going to change the entire planet. Seriously, I appreciate other people's political opinions, but sometime people...you just need to calm down. Thanks L Sternn for pointing out the obvious :) Beth : Oh believe me, I understand that. As someone who didn't actually vote for : Bush, I understand a little more as I don't generally agree with his [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] : : Beth From just above Italy: Switzerland. The cat population problem seems to stop at the Alps. In northern Europe we have no such problem. We even import dogs and a few cats from shelters in the south and in the east and find places for them. My dog comes from Spain. I picked it from a catalogue with the advice of the lady in charge who came to my house. ("This one is a barker" etc.) Then it came by plane with some others and was brought to my house bathed twice (because it rolled in the dirt after the first bath), de-flead, wormed, vaccinated, spayed. All this cost me about $240.- Once a year there's a get-together for all those dogs and their owners. The dogs form a pack and run around, the humans enjoy the barbeque and donate to the organization with their consumptions. I could have a cat like this too. At the local shelter there are only four adult cats at the moment, and this since months. Carola >Bush has done damage to the image of Americans in the world with Iraq and >Kyoto (the climate thing), and it has gone down badly in Europe that he was >re-elected. The 55 MILLION OF US who voted against George Bush would agree. We did our part to get George Bush out of office. Unfortunately he stole the elecion. (Air America, Stephanie Miller, and the BBC have been the only ones to cover the stolen election.) ------------------------------------------ http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com >>Bush has done damage to the image of Americans in the world with Iraq and >>Kyoto (the climate thing), and it has gone down badly in Europe that he was [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >We did our part to get George Bush out of office. Unfortunately he >stole the elecion. I voted against Bush in both 2000 and 2004 and I don't believe he "stole" the election. I don't even see how you can make an argument for it in the 2004 election. >(Air America, Stephanie Miller, and the BBC have been the only >ones to cover the stolen election.) I don't know who Stephanie Miller is and Air America is about as credible as Rush Limbaugh and all the other pseudo-conservative talk show hosts. Please show me where the BBC said Bush stole the 2004 election. >I voted against Bush in both 2000 and 2004 and I don't believe he >"stole" the election. > >I don't even see how you can make an argument for it in the 2004 >election. Take a good hard look at the many irregularities in Ohio. >>(Air America, Stephanie Miller, and the BBC have been the only >>ones to cover the stolen election.) > >I don't know who Stephanie Miller is and Air America is about as >credible as Rush Limbaugh and all the other pseudo-conservative talk >show hosts. Stephanie Miller is not on Air America, she is on the Jones Radio Network. BTW, have you ever listened to Air America or are you taking Rush Limbuaghs/Bill O'Riellys/Sean Hannitys word for it? ------------------------------------------ http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com >>I voted against Bush in both 2000 and 2004 and I don't believe he >>"stole" the election. >> >>I don't even see how you can make an argument for it in the 2004 >>election. >Take a good hard look at the many irregularities in Ohio. There were a number of troubling irregularities in Ohio, and the reports on those incidents were not limited to the 3 sources you mentioned, BUT from all accounts I read, it wouldn't have been enough to make a difference anyway. >>>(Air America, Stephanie Miller, and the BBC have been the only >>>ones to cover the stolen election.) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Stephanie Miller is not on Air America, she is on the Jones Radio >Network. That doesn't do much for me. If you tell me Jones Radio Network is related to Mother Jones magazine, it will do even less for me. >BTW, have you ever listened to Air America I've caught Al Franken's show on the Sundance channel (or whatever one it's on) a number of times, but I do not listen to the radio at all, unless the CD player in my car is broken which it was a couple of months ago. I listened to a lot of classic rock and even some Tejano music while it was being fixed (under warranty - otherwise, I'd have just bought a new one), but no talk radio. >or are you >taking Rush Limbuaghs/Bill O'Riellys/Sean Hannitys word for it? Huh? That's kind of funny because even though I sometimes watch O'Reilly and Hannity/(colmes), my point was that they're about as credible as Al Franken or the other idiiots on Air America. It's all spin and the more Bill O'Reilly says "no spin zone", the more I laugh at him. Hannity said something incredibly funny tonite - he actually wants Iraq to pay war reparations to the US when the oil starts flowing again - and everything will be perfect because the right is so right and gas will cost 99 cents a gallon and global warming is a liberal/commie plot to take over the world. You just know Howard Dean worships an idol of Joseph Stalin and this nation is in real danger of someone like him being elected president and turning our military over to the UN (as if Congress doesn't exist) and in fact there are direct ties connecting the DNC with Al Qaeda via Saddam Hussein WHILE Saddam has been in custody. >------------------------------------------ > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups >----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- >There were a number of troubling irregularities in Ohio, and the >reports on those incidents were not limited to the 3 sources you >mentioned, BUT from all accounts I read, it wouldn't have been enough >to make a difference anyway. And you know that these thousands of irregularities would not have chenged the outcome how? You know for a fact how many would have voted but couldn't wait 8-13 hours in line in the rain? You know for a fact how many of these people wanted to vote but had to go to work? And you know for a fact how many of these black box voting machines influenced the results? And you know for a fact how many voting servers with Windows were hacked into? And you know how many thousands who had voted at the same location for many years were challenged for some reason even though they lived in the same house for many years? >That doesn't do much for me. If you tell me Jones Radio Network is >related to Mother Jones magazine, it will do even less for me. http://www.jones.com/jrn.html http://www.jonesradio.com/NewsTalk/StephanieMiller/index.html http://www.jonesradio.com/About/index.html >Huh? That's kind of funny because even though I sometimes watch >O'Reilly and Hannity/(colmes), my point was that they're about as >credible as Al Franken or the other idiiots on Air America. It's all >spin and the more Bill O'Reilly says "no spin zone", the more I laugh >at him. You're aware that O'Rielly and Franken have had a war going on for a few years now. O'Reilly claims to be independent. He is so independent he never has anything good to say about any liberal. >Hannity said something incredibly funny tonite - he actually wants >Iraq to pay war reparations to the US when the oil starts flowing >again - and everything will be perfect because the right is so right >and gas will cost 99 cents a gallon and global warming is a >liberal/commie plot to take over the world. You do realize before the US took down Saddam the official line from the White House was this war would cost the US nohing, that it would all be paid for by Iraqi oill. >You just know Howard Dean >worships an idol of Joseph Stalin And you know this how? (I hope your not relying of Fox news for this tidbit.) >and this nation is in real danger of >someone like him being elected president and turning our military over >to the UN (as if Congress doesn't exist) and in fact there are direct >ties connecting the DNC with Al Qaeda via Saddam Hussein WHILE Saddam >has been in custody. And where did you get that peace of fantasy? Dick Channey? Me thinks you need to realize that when Faux news says they are fair and balanced they are neither. Extremely anti anyone who even suggests that George Bush is not a gift from God. It would seem you're swallowing the White House line hook line and sinker. There were 55 million of us who voted against George Bush. ------------------------------------------ http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com >>There were a number of troubling irregularities in Ohio, and the >>reports on those incidents were not limited to the 3 sources you >>mentioned, BUT from all accounts I read, it wouldn't have been enough >>to make a difference anyway. >And you know that these thousands of irregularities would not >have chenged the outcome how? Because even if all the disputed votes went to Kerry, he would still have lost. >You know for a fact how many would have voted but couldn't wait >8-13 hours in line in the rain? You know for a fact how many of >these people wanted to vote but had to go to work? Ohio has absentee ballots. >And you know for a fact how many of these black box voting >machines influenced the results? Do you? >And you know for a fact how many voting servers with >Windows were hacked into? Do you? >And you know how many thousands who had voted at >the same location for many years were challenged for >some reason even though they lived in the same house >for many years? Thousands? >>That doesn't do much for me. If you tell me Jones Radio Network is >>related to Mother Jones magazine, it will do even less for me. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >http://www.jonesradio.com/About/index.html What's that supposed to prove? >>Huh? That's kind of funny because even though I sometimes watch >>O'Reilly and Hannity/(colmes), my point was that they're about as [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >You're aware that O'Rielly and Franken have had a war going on >for a few years now. "war"? If you wish to call it that, then yes, I'm aware. >O'Reilly claims to be independent. I'm aware of what he claims. >He is so independent he >never has anything good to say about any liberal. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >>worships an idol of Joseph Stalin >And you know this how? Sorry, that should have read "he [Hannity] just knows" > (I hope your not relying of Fox news for >this tidbit.) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >>has been in custody. >And where did you get that peace of fantasy? Dick Channey? Go back and reread what I wrote, substituting the above correction and maybe you'll get it. >Me thinks you need to realize that when Faux news says they >are fair and balanced they are neither. Why do you think I laugh whenever I hear O'Reilly say "no spin zone"? >Extremely anti >anyone who even suggests that George Bush is not a >gift from God. > >It would seem you're swallowing the White House line >hook line and sinker. It would seem that you're an idiot. >There were 55 million of us who voted against George Bush. And I was one of them. Did you forget that? (re-read my earlier post to which you replied if you have). I notice you also ignored my request to show me where the BBC said Bush stole the '04 election. >Because even if all the disputed votes went to Kerry, he would still >have lost. You know exacltly how many people didn't vote becuaes they couldn't wait 8-13 hours in line. >Ohio has absentee ballots. Which had to be requested in advance. >Do you? No which is why I question the results. >>And you know for a fact how many voting servers with >>Windows were hacked into? > >Do you? Considering it is WINDOWS probably quit a few. Windows has lots of vulnerablities or hadn't you noticed? >And I was one of them. Did you forget that? (re-read my earlier >post to which you replied if you have). Well you seem to be bending over backwards to praise everything Bush does and slam everything the demorcrats do. >I notice you also ignored my request to show me where the BBC said >Bush stole the '04 election. That you would have to pose to someone in England. Stephanie Miller just reported that the story ran on the BBC. I'm in the US of A. BTW, from the "do as I say and not what I do" department when the democrats were complaing about the results in Ohio the republicans said jiust accept them stop complaining. Well when the shoe was on the other foot (Washington and the republicans were on the loosing end they did exactly the same thing as the democrats did in Ohio. Hypocrisy in action.) ------------------------------------------ http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com >>And I was one of them. Did you forget that? (re-read my earlier >>post to which you replied if you have). >Well you seem to be bending over backwards to praise everything >Bush does and slam everything the demorcrats do. No, you seem to be bending over backwards to slam Bush and Republicans anyway you can. I'm just a bit more fair and balanced than you (or FNC) >>I notice you also ignored my request to show me where the BBC said >>Bush stole the '04 election. >That you would have to pose to someone in England. Does your ISP block sites from the UK or something? http://www.bbc.co.uk/?ok I can't find anything about stolen elections Put up or shut up. >Stephanie Miller >just reported that the story ran on the BBC. I'm in the US of A. I just checked her website to get an idea of who she was - sounds like Ann Coulter's twin sister who happens to be just as extreme - just leaning a different direction. Got any credible sources that say the '04 election was stolen? >No, you seem to be bending over backwards to slam Bush and Republicans >anyway you can. You know what? I hate Repubicans. Comes from hearing them slam democrats every chance they can since Nixon was president. >I'm just a bit more fair and balanced than you (or FNC) Yeah I noticed how fair and blanced you and Faux news are. Both you and FNC are afraid lightning will strike you if you say anything good about a liberall or a democrat. ------------------------------------------ http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com >>No, you seem to be bending over backwards to slam Bush and Republicans >>anyway you can. >You know what? I hate Repubicans. It shows. Your hatred has blinded you. Hatred is a disease. > Comes from hearing them >slam democrats every chance they can since Nixon was president. Your showing your age - extremist partisans like yourself have been around since politics were invented. How do you think Hitler came to power? Why do you think Julius Caesar was assassinated? Why do you think Adam & Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden? Why do you think Cain betrayed Abel? >>I'm just a bit more fair and balanced than you (or FNC) >Yeah I noticed how fair and blanced you and Faux news are. I'm not saying FNC is fair or balanced at all. Are you drunk or just stupid? >Both you and FNC are afraid lightning will strike you if you >say anything good about a liberall or a democrat. Hmmm.....something good about a democrat. Well, Jimmy Carter said that the legal consequences of drug use should not be more severe than the physical consequences of that drug use (sorry, I'm too lazy to find the exact quote, but that's the gist of it). I think Carter was 100% right on that and if he didn't have a cokehead in his administration, he may very well have been able to accomplish some serious reform of our nations drug laws. Nixon, OTOH, threw a report that he commissioned on drugs into the trash because it recommended decriminalization of marijuana. There's something good about a specific (and much-maligned) Democrat and something bad about a specific (and also much-maligned) Republican. But I still think that giving up the Panama Canal was the wrong thing to do. It's hard for me to come up with anything good to say about any politician, but I can tell you that I voted for a number of Democrats in the last election. Tell you what - why don't you give me an example of something you think I should applaud democrats for and I'll tell you if I do. But you'd probably have difficulty doing that since all you seem capable of is criticizing Bush. ....... Hey, Carter also helps out with Habitat for Humanity - that's something good. Sorry if I'm not worshipping John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Charlie Rangel, Jesse Jackson or Shelia Jackson Lee. I'm not worshipping Orrin Hatch, Pat Robertson, GW Bush, Bill Frist or Michael Bloomberg either. >Your showing your age - extremist partisans like yourself have been >around since politics were invented. How do you think Hitler came to >power? Why do you think Julius Caesar was assassinated? Why do you >think Adam & Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden? Why do you >think Cain betrayed Abel? In the US we have this pesky thing called freedom of speech. Well I used that freedom of speech to protest Nixons precious war in Viet Nam and as a liberal i've been slammed six ways to Sunday. That is why I hate Republicans. For republicans its OK to slam Clinton but let you say something bad about Bush and you're a traitor. >I think Carter was 100% right on that and if he didn't have a cokehead >in his administration, he may very well have been able to accomplish >some serious reform of our nations drug laws. Oh you mean a cokehead like George W,. Bush? While John Kerry was valiantly fighting in Viet Nam Bush was getting high on cocaine. Coincidently Bush was abscent from the National Guard about the same time they started mandatory drug testing. >Sorry if I'm not worshipping John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Charlie Rangel, >Jesse Jackson or Shelia Jackson Lee. I'm not worshipping Orrin Hatch, >Pat Robertson, GW Bush, Bill Frist or Michael Bloomberg either. According to Pat Robertson i'm condemned to burn in hell because i'm a member of the 2,000 religions other christianity. Also I haven't found Jesus. Our religion considers Jesus to be a traitor. ------------------------------------------ http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com >>Your showing your age - extremist partisans like yourself have been >>around since politics were invented. How do you think Hitler came to >>power? Why do you think Julius Caesar was assassinated? Why do you >>think Adam & Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden? Why do you >>think Cain betrayed Abel? >In the US we have this pesky thing called freedom of speech. I know - I'm all for it and don't find it "pesky" at all. Why do you have a problem with it? I'm free to criticize you and your views all day long. I can even say you're a "disease", which you can't say in Canada. >Well I used that freedom of speech to protest Nixons >precious war in Viet Nam and as a liberal i've been >slammed six ways to Sunday. Slammed in what way? By other people's free speech? >That is why I hate Republicans. I don't really care why you have hatred in your heart - it's still hate. >For republicans its OK to slam Clinton but let you >say something bad about Bush and you're a traitor. Oh, so you think it should be the other way around? Is that it? >>I think Carter was 100% right on that and if he didn't have a cokehead >>in his administration, he may very well have been able to accomplish >>some serious reform of our nations drug laws. >Oh you mean a cokehead like George W,. Bush? No, I mean someone who there was evidence of him being a cokehead. > While John Kerry >was valiantly fighting in Viet Nam Bush was getting high on cocaine. Is that what Stephanie Miller told you to think? >Coincidently Bush was abscent from the National Guard about the same >time they started mandatory drug testing. Is that supposed to be proof on his cocaine use? Cocaine use can only be detected for a couple of days and if he were so heavily into coke that he couldn't stop for that long, surely there would be someone credible who could come forward and say, yeah, Bush was a cokehead. Instead, the only people saying Bush used coke are extremist nutcases like you. >>Sorry if I'm not worshipping John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Charlie Rangel, >>Jesse Jackson or Shelia Jackson Lee. I'm not worshipping Orrin Hatch, >>Pat Robertson, GW Bush, Bill Frist or Michael Bloomberg either. >> >According to Pat Robertson i'm condemned to burn in hell because i'm >a member of the 2,000 religions other christianity. So? Should he not have a right to say that? Besides, I just got done telling you I don't worship him either. >Also I haven't found Jesus. Jesus hasn't been around lately. Rumor has it that he was busted selling smack in LA, but I've also heard that he's laying low in Mexico for a while until "things cool down a bit" >Our religion considers Jesus to be a >traitor. Why do you think I care? Are you going to start proselytizing now? And you whine about Christians getting in your face. >>In the US we have this pesky thing called freedom of speech. > >I know - I'm all for it and don't find it "pesky" at all. Why do you >have a problem with it? I'm free to criticize you and your views all >day long. Some in your party (read Anne Coulter, Sean Hannity) have decided that if you disagree with King George the second you're a traitor. I agree with freedom of speech but some in your party trying to quash it. >>Well I used that freedom of speech to protest Nixons >>precious war in Viet Nam and as a liberal i've been >>slammed six ways to Sunday. > >Slammed in what way? By other people's free speech? You do realize NIxon did lots of dirty tricks by doing such things as sticking the IRS on those who dareed to disagree with him? Not to mention having protestors shot, arrested. >>For republicans its OK to slam Clinton but let you >>say something bad about Bush and you're a traitor. > >Oh, so you think it should be the other way around? Is that it? Payback is a bitch ain't it? >>Oh you mean a cokehead like George W,. Bush? > >No, I mean someone who there was evidence of him being a cokehead. George Bush at Yale was your typical frat boy........getting drunk alot and getting high on cocaine alot. >> While John Kerry >>was valiantly fighting in Viet Nam Bush was getting high on cocaine. > >Is that what Stephanie Miller told you to think? No this is what I think becasue I was protesting the war with Kerry. >Jesus hasn't been around lately. Rumor has it that he was busted >selling smack in LA, but I've also heard that he's laying low in >Mexico for a while until "things cool down a bit" And here I thought he was in the Bush administration. And the Bush talks to him every day. >And you whine about Christians getting in your face. Because they have been doing it for years. This country is very bad at accepting that some people are not christian. Of course the republicans if they had their way would throw anyone who wasn't christian in jail. ------------------------------------------ http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com >>>In the US we have this pesky thing called freedom of speech. >> >>I know - I'm all for it and don't find it "pesky" at all. Why do you >>have a problem with it? I'm free to criticize you and your views all >>day long. >Some in your party (read Anne Coulter, Sean Hannity) They aren't in "my" party. Why do you make such assumptions? > have decided >that if you disagree with King George the second you're a traitor. Ann Coulter is a piece of sh.t, and Hannity is to a lesser degree. >I agree with freedom of speech but some in your party trying to >quash it. Seems that some in YOUR party are trying to quash it to. A few of us still believe in the First Amendment though. >>>Well I used that freedom of speech to protest Nixons >>>precious war in Viet Nam and as a liberal i've been [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >things as sticking the IRS on those who dareed to disagree >with him? Are you saying you were important enough for Nixon to retaliate against you personally? It sound like you suffer from delusions of grandeur. >Not to mention having protestors shot, arrested. Were you shot or arrested? Do you think Nixon gave the order to open fire at Kent State? >>>For republicans its OK to slam Clinton but let you >>>say something bad about Bush and you're a traitor. >> >>Oh, so you think it should be the other way around? Is that it? >Payback is a bitch ain't it? It is especially for those Americans like me who wish the political discourse in the US didn't resemble something you'd hear on a kindergarten playground. You're no different from Ann Coulter in that respect. Rather than slinging mud, why not offer rational discourse? >>>Oh you mean a cokehead like George W,. Bush? >> >>No, I mean someone who there was evidence of him being a cokehead. >George Bush at Yale was your typical frat boy........getting drunk >alot and getting high on cocaine alot. It isn't typical for college students, even frat boys to do cocaine, let alone do it a lot. It's not unheard of, but "typical"? I don't think so, and gov't statstitcs bear that out. If you don't like gov't stats, please provide some credible ones to use as an alternative. Your claim that typical frat boys use cocaine a lot is simply not credible. I'm sure he drank a lot, and I'm also sure he used marijuana although to what extent I'm not sure. It's possible he did coke, but even if he did, so what? I did coke a couple times in college. So what? I wouldn't be surprised if he also engaged in pre-marital sex once or twice. Are you sure Kerry never did coke? >>> While John Kerry >>>was valiantly fighting in Viet Nam Bush was getting high on cocaine. >> >>Is that what Stephanie Miller told you to think? >No this is what I think becasue I was protesting the war with Kerry. But you just said "while John Kerry was valiantly fighting in Viet Nam" - you were protesting with Kerry while Kerry was fighting in Vietnam? Did you even know who Kerry or Bush was at the time? I seriously doubt it - just like 95% of the SBVT, you probably had never even heard of him. >>Jesus hasn't been around lately. Rumor has it that he was busted >>selling smack in LA, but I've also heard that he's laying low in >>Mexico for a while until "things cool down a bit" >And here I thought he was in the Bush administration. > >And the Bush talks to him every day. Oh, sorry, I thought you meant Jesus De La Cruz. You were talking about Jesus Christ, weren't you? NOTE: Context restored. The following 6 lines were snipped by Barney, ostensibly to save bandwidth, but it seems pretty obvious that he was afraid it made him look like the hypocrite he is. >>>>Our religion considers Jesus to be a >>>>traitor. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>And you whine about Christians getting in your face. >Because they have been doing it for years. So that makes it okay for you to get in other peoples faces with your religion? You do realize that I'm not one of those Xians who have been getting in anyone's face, don't you? I'm not even Christian. I am slightly curious about what religion would consider Jesus to be a "traitor", but that doesn't mean you should start getting in other people's faces about it. You're the one who brought up Jesus, not me. > This >country is very bad at accepting that some >people are not christian. That would be more accurate if you said "Some people in this country are very bad at accepting that some people are not Xian". It would also be accurate to say that "Some people in this country are very bad at accepting that some people ARE xian". You seem to fall into the latter category. From where I sit, you're not so different from the people you're complaining about. >Of course the republicans if they had their way >would throw anyone who wasn't christian in jail. I don't believe they would. There may be some extremists who may wish that, just as there are some extremists on the left who would probably throw people in jail just for being xian. Fortunately, I believe people that extreme are so few in number that we can deal with them on a case by case basis. They're either ranting lunatics who don't pose any danger and we can ignore them or even offer them help or they are a threat and we can do whatever is necessary to disarm that threat, up to and including executing them after they are convicted and sentenced in a court of law. >Seems that some in YOUR party are trying to quash it to. > >A few of us still believe in the First Amendment though. None of them in the republican party. > Do you think Nixon gave the order to open >fire at Kent State? Yes I do. I think Nixon hated us protesters so much he would order havaing us shot. We dared to protest against his precious war. >It is especially for those Americans like me who wish the political >discourse in the US didn't resemble something you'd hear on a >kindergarten playground. Won't happen. It was this bad when Washington was presdent. Go back and read how many of his nominess for the Supreme Court were blocked by the congress. >Rather than slinging mud, why not offer rational discourse? It hasn't happened in 200+ years, won't happn now. >It isn't typical for college students, even frat boys to do cocaine, >let alone do it a lot. Did you attend college? I did and alot of people at that colletge used drugs, drank alcohol even if they were underage. >Your claim that typical frat boys use cocaine a lot is simply not >credible. I went to college with alot of them. >I'm sure he drank a lot, and I'm also sure he used marijuana although >to what extent I'm not sure. It's possible he did coke, but even if >he did, so what? I did coke a couple times in college. I never did. But then i'm probably the only who didn'. >So what? I wouldn't be surprised if he also engaged in pre-marital >sex once or twice. Are you sure Kerry never did coke? He was busy fighting a war in Viet Nam. Aren't you glad Bush was protecting Alabama from those nasty Veit Cong? >But you just said "while John Kerry was valiantly fighting in Viet >Nam" - you were protesting with Kerry while Kerry was fighting in >Vietnam? When John Kerry came home from Viet Nam he formed a group of veterans to protest the war. I saw Kerry at numerous demonstrations. Didn't see Bush. >Did you even know who Kerry or Bush was at the time? I seriously >doubt it - just like 95% of the SBVT, you probably had never even >heard of him. I saw Kerry at numerous demonstrations. Didn't see Bush. >Oh, sorry, I thought you meant Jesus De La Cruz. You were talking >about Jesus Christ, weren't you? The same Jesus Christ that George Bush talks to every day. >So that makes it okay for you to get in other peoples faces with your >religion? Have I even said what religion I am? No I haven't. >I'm not even Christian. I'm not either. I'm with one of the 2,000 other religions in the world. >I am slightly curious about what religion would consider Jesus to be a >"traitor", but that doesn't mean you should start getting in other >people's faces about it. Here is a clue: Jesus was a rabbi in this religion before he became the savior for christinans. >That would be more accurate if you said "Some people in this country >are very bad at accepting that some people are not Xian". I grew up as a non chriastian. When you grow up as a non christian do you realize how much this counrty has a national reiligion. >It would also be accurate to say that "Some people in this country are >very bad at accepting that some people ARE xian". Maybe they should have thought of this when they prevented me from practicing my religion all those years. >I don't believe they would. There may be some extremists who may wish >that, just as there are some extremists on the left who would probably >throw people in jail just for being xian. Try growing up in this counrty as a non-christian. ------------------------------------------ http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com >>Seems that some in YOUR party are trying to quash it to. >> >>A few of us still believe in the First Amendment though. >None of them in the republican party. hyperbole >> Do you think Nixon gave the order to open >>fire at Kent State? >Yes I do. I'm not sure if you're a moron or simply insane now. >I think Nixon hated us protesters so much he would >order havaing us shot. > >We dared to protest against his precious war. It wasn't Johnson's war? >>It is especially for those Americans like me who wish the political >>discourse in the US didn't resemble something you'd hear on a >>kindergarten playground. >Won't happen. If people like you didn't act so childishly, it would. > It was this bad when Washington was presdent. >Go back and read how many of his nominess for the Supreme Court >were blocked by the congress. Blocking court nominees is not the same as acting like a 5-year old. >>Rather than slinging mud, why not offer rational discourse? >It hasn't happened in 200+ years, won't happn now. If that were true, why bother with a democracy? Why not just let a dictator run the country? >>It isn't typical for college students, even frat boys to do cocaine, >>let alone do it a lot. >Did you attend college? I did and alot of people at that >colletge used drugs, drank alcohol even if they were underage. Yes, I did attend college and it is true that a lot (not 'alot' - you should have learned that in 2nd grade) of people drank alcohol and used other drugs as well. But not very many people did coke, and most of those that did, didn't do a lot of coke. >>Your claim that typical frat boys use cocaine a lot is simply not >>credible. >I went to college with alot of them. You attended Yale with Bush? I actually attended a school that GW spent a year at. There were not a lot of drugs - ever. >>I'm sure he drank a lot, and I'm also sure he used marijuana although >>to what extent I'm not sure. It's possible he did coke, but even if >>he did, so what? I did coke a couple times in college. >I never did. But then i'm probably the only who didn'. Most people didn't do coke - check the stats on drug use. >>So what? I wouldn't be surprised if he also engaged in pre-marital >>sex once or twice. Are you sure Kerry never did coke? >He was busy fighting a war in Viet Nam. And you're sure he never smoked pot or did heroin while he was there? >Aren't you glad Bush was protecting Alabama from >those nasty Veit Cong? No, I think the Vietnam War was a bad idea. >>But you just said "while John Kerry was valiantly fighting in Viet >>Nam" - you were protesting with Kerry while Kerry was fighting in >>Vietnam? >When John Kerry came home from Viet Nam he formed a group >of veterans to protest the war. And you were part of that group??? >I saw Kerry at numerous demonstrations. Didn't see Bush. Really? Name a few - when did you first meet Kerry or first become aware of who he was? >>Did you even know who Kerry or Bush was at the time? I seriously >>doubt it - just like 95% of the SBVT, you probably had never even >>heard of him. >I saw Kerry at numerous demonstrations. Didn't see Bush. Are you saying that protesting the Vietnam war should be a litmus test for presidential candidates? And when did you first see Kerry? >>Oh, sorry, I thought you meant Jesus De La Cruz. You were talking >>about Jesus Christ, weren't you? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>religion? >Have I even said what religion I am? No I haven't. No, but you did say that your religion considers Jesus to be a traitor. >>I'm not even Christian. >I'm not either. I'm with one of the 2,000 other religions in the >world. How exactly does that make you any different? >>I am slightly curious about what religion would consider Jesus to be a >>"traitor", but that doesn't mean you should start getting in other >>people's faces about it. >Here is a clue: Jesus was a rabbi in this religion before he >became the savior for christinans. So you're a Yidd? >>That would be more accurate if you said "Some people in this country >>are very bad at accepting that some people are not Xian". [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Maybe they should have thought of this when they prevented me >from practicing my religion all those years. Spill, f.cker! Tell us what religion you are and how you've been prevented from practicing your religion all these years. I may even take up your cause and fight for your right to practice your religion if your statements have any merit. I somehow doubt they will. >>I don't believe they would. There may be some extremists who may wish >>that, just as there are some extremists on the left who would probably >>throw people in jail just for being xian. >Try growing up in this counrty as a non-christian. Try using concrete examples. >>> Do you think Nixon gave the order to open >>>fire at Kent State? >>Yes I do. > >I'm not sure if you're a moron or simply insane now. One thing I found over the years is there were too many morons who would gladly have given the shoot to kiill order to any war protestors. When I was in college they had one dean who was hired for that specific reason. >It wasn't Johnson's war? Actually the war was started by Eisenhauer. Nixon had a secret plan to get us out of the war.....so secret he didn't even know what it was. >If people like you didn't act so childishly, it would. Go back and see the level of discourse in Washingtons time. >Blocking court nominees is not the same as acting like a 5-year old. Translation: it's OK for a republican to act like a 5 year old but not democrats. ------------------------------------------ http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com >>Blocking court nominees is not the same as acting like a 5-year old. >Translation: it's OK for a republican to act like a 5 year old but >not democrats. Why do you think that is the translation? Do you believe that I'm secretly a Republican? >Do you believe that I'm secretly a Republican? According to you republicans can do no wrong, democrats can do no right. According to you Clinton lied and Bush never lied in his life. ------------------------------------------ http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com >>Do you believe that I'm secretly a Republican? >According to you republicans can do no wrong, democrats can do no >right. Can you show me a single statement I have ever made anywhere that you could possibly interpret that way? I've even given you specific examples of things I have thought certain Democrats have done right, and I've certainly ranted enough about Bush in particular to have been branded a pinko-commie-terrorist-coddling-leftie-liberal on countless occasions. > According to you Clinton lied and Bush never lied in his >life. Clinton did lie - I knew it before he even was elected. So has Bush - in fact, every Bush I've ever heard of has lied, whether you're talking Bush 41, Bush 43, Jeb Bush, Barbara Bush, Jenna Bush or the other one or even Noelle Bush who if you'll recall got busted trying to pass a forged prescription for Xanax in the middle of the night. And Jebbie got Noelle special treatment and used Schiavo for political purposes in a disgusting display of positical posturing. But I'm not too blind to say that many on the left are guilty of the same thing. Terri Schiavo was used by both parties, and we could discuss the politicians from both parties who have used their political influence to get some friend or relation kid-glove treatment for drugs. As much as they'd like to have it and as much as you'd like everyone to believe it, Republicans do NOT have a monopoly on corruption. >Are you saying that protesting the Vietnam war should be a litmus test >for presidential candidates? No i'm saying if you're passing yourself off as a war president then you should have gone to viet nam instead of hiding out in the national guard in Alabama. Check out the chicken hawks database: http://www.nhgazette.com/news/chickenhawks/ >And when did you first see Kerry? A number of years prior to the end of the war. >So you're a Yidd? A what? >Tell us what religion you are and how you've been prevented from >practicing your religion all these years. Jewish. In a number of states that had very few of them and was promiently christian. >>Try growing up in this counrty as a non-christian. > >Try using concrete examples. I had many instances where if I tried to get time off from work/school for religious sevices they refused the request. Some even insisted that I convert to their religion. And some of these were in the public schools. ------------------------------------------ http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com > Some in your party (read Anne Coulter, Sean Hannity) have decided > that if you disagree with King George the second you're a traitor. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > things as sticking the IRS on those who dareed to disagree > with him? Tin Soldiers & Nixon Coming! Four dead in Ohio. Remember Kent State.  SignatureStone Some pic's http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/stoneman72/my_photos >: Assuming that because I'm American I think that I'm better >: or that my way of life is better than Europeans is being closed minded. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Americans, and they're all very nice. >But do understand that there is some criticism about the US world politics. Don't worry - there's plenty of criticism of Europe here too. ;-) I won't defend Bush's Iraq war, but Kyoto would have unfairly penalized the US disproportionately, especially considering all the foreign aid we give out which would be used in part to help poorer (is it okay to say that? Should I say developing so I'll be PC?) countries implement their part of Kyoto. I'm not against reducing pollution of all kinds, but let's come up with a fairer solution. Bush will leave office soon enough and maybe then the world can get together and come up with a better plan. I know some people feel we can't wait another second to save the planet, but I don't another 3 1/2 years will devastate the earth (any more than we've already devastated it). >Love > >Carola >I won't defend Bush's Iraq war, but Kyoto would have unfairly >penalized the US disproportionately, especially considering all the >foreign aid we give out which would be used in part to help poorer (is >it okay to say that? Should I say developing so I'll be PC?) >countries implement their part of Kyoto. The main reason Bush is agaisnt Kyoto is becuase 1. he is bought and paid for by corporate interests and 2. Bush and Channey made their money from oill. >I'm not against reducing pollution of all kinds, but let's come up >with a fairer solution. Yeah we need a fairer solution.....like get a president or the US who doesn't make his money from oil and who will have a Manahattan type project to find a cheap, plentiful, clean form of energy to replace oil.. I remember living through the oil crisis in the 70s. Also you've OBL who would love to destroy the oil infastructure providing the US with oil. >Bush will leave office soon enough and maybe then the world can get >together and come up with a better plan. I know some people feel we >can't wait another second to save the planet, but I don't another 3 >1/2 years will devastate the earth (any more than we've already >devastated it). You do realize Bush is in office until 2008? (Unless we can find a way to impeach the guy). In the meantime Bush decries activist judges. So what does he want to do? He wants to put activist judges in the Supreme Court who will strike down Roe vs Wade, Contraceptives, Clean Air, Social Security, etc. In short Bush wants nominees like the ones he just got approved for lower courts......nominees who will roll the clock back to the 1930s. ------------------------------------------ http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com >>I won't defend Bush's Iraq war, but Kyoto would have unfairly >>penalized the US disproportionately, especially considering all the >>foreign aid we give out which would be used in part to help poorer (is >>it okay to say that? Should I say developing so I'll be PC?) >>countries implement their part of Kyoto. >The main reason Bush is agaisnt Kyoto is becuase You're not listening. It doesn't matter why Bush is against it - what matters is Kyoto screws the USA. Bush is motivated by selfish and corrupt interests, but that doesn't mean that everything he does is bad for this country. >1. he is bought >and paid for by corporate interests Wrong - he is a corporate interest. Wanna buy some wood? That's just the tip of the iceberg. >and 2. Bush and Channey made > their money from oill. Bush didn't make any money from oil. He made his money from good ole' boy "investors" who were purchasing influence. Do try to keep up. >>I'm not against reducing pollution of all kinds, but let's come up >>with a fairer solution. >Yeah we need a fairer solution.....like get a president or the US who >doesn't make his money from oil But Bush never made money from oil - not directly anyway. Kyoto pre-dates Bush being elected to POTUS. You remember that guy from Arkansa that was in the White House before Bush? Well he didn't sign it either, and furthermore, the POTUS alone does not have the power to ratify a treaty. If Congress wanted it, they could get it - and that's the beautiful thing about our system of gov't. No matter how f.cked Bush is, he is NOT a dictator and he will be out of office soon enough, giving the Dems another chance to nominate someone halfway decent as opposed to the Gore or Kerry. > and who will have a Manahattan type >project to find a cheap, plentiful, clean form of energy to >replace oil.. Nukes? Are you ready for that? It's been the obvious solution for decades. >I remember living through the oil crisis in the 70s. Yeah, met too. Both Bush and Clinton were probably too stoned or too busy getting laid to remember though. >Also you've OBL who would love to destroy the oil infastructure >providing the US with oil. Let me guess - if Kerry had been elected in '04, in '08 you'd still be blaming Bush for the fact that OBL hadn't been brought to justice yet. Am I right? >>Bush will leave office soon enough and maybe then the world can get >>together and come up with a better plan. I know some people feel we >>can't wait another second to save the planet, but I don't another 3 >>1/2 years will devastate the earth (any more than we've already >>devastated it). >You do realize Bush is in office until 2008? Do you know what year it is now? (Hint: It's 2005) Do you know what year it will be in "3 1/2 years"? Can you do simple math? 2005.5 + 3.5 -------- 2008.0 Got it? > (Unless we can find >a way to impeach the guy). If you can find the evidence, I'll support impeachment of Bush. >In the meantime Bush decries activist judges. So what does >he want to do? He wants to put activist judges in the Supreme >Court who will strike down Roe vs Wade, Contraceptives, >Clean Air, Social Security, etc. Yup, I"m sure he does. >In short Bush wants nominees like the ones he just got approved >for lower courts......nominees who will roll the clock back to the >1930s. Well, did gov't use eminent domain back then to seize property from private citizens so it could turn it over to campain contributors? SCOTUS recently ruled that such abuse of power was constitutional. They also recently ruled that for all intents and purposes, the federal gov't could ban quilting bees if they felt like it. I think it's high time we put some real conservatives back on the bench - no, I don't trust Bush to intentionally do so, but justices have proven in the past that sometimes looks can be deceiving. >------------------------------------------ > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups >----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- >You're not listening. > >It doesn't matter why Bush is against it - what matters is Kyoto >screws the USA. No. Kyoto doesn't screw the US. Kyoto screws Bush and Channey who makes lots of money from oil. >Bush is motivated by selfish and corrupt interests, but that doesn't >mean that everything he does is bad for this country. Exactly how is having clean air not in the interest of the United States? >Wrong - he is a corporate interest. It would seem you're swallowing the republican B*****IT hook line and sinker. Here is a newsflash for you: some of use disagree with Bush and realize that alot of people in Washington DC are bought and paid for by special interests. >Bush didn't make any money from oil. He made his money from good ole' >boy "investors" who were purchasing influence. And Channey made $8,000,000 from oil. >If Congress wanted it, they could get it - and that's the beautiful >thing about our system of gov't. No matter how f.cked Bush is, he is >NOT a dictator and he will be out of office soon enough, giving the >Dems another chance to nominate someone halfway decent as opposed to >the Gore or Kerry. I like John Kerry. He has been my senator for many years. Also I protested the Viet Nam war with him. >> and who will have a Manahattan type >>project to find a cheap, plentiful, clean form of energy to >>replace oil.. > >Nukes? Are you ready for that? It's been the obvious solution for >decades. No I never said anything about nukes. Note I said Manahattan type project. The Manahattan project created the bomb, in this case what I'm proposing is getting together people to create a new form of energy that is clean, cheap, and plentiful. I'm opposed to nuclear power even more now than I was decades ago. They keep saying it will withstand a 747 crash. Well i'm not wiling to test that theory out. In fact I want national guard troops at our nuke plants prepared to shoot down any plane that someone trys to crash into the nuke plant. >Yeah, met too. Both Bush and Clinton were probably too stoned or too >busy getting laid to remember though. You do realize Clinton hasn't been president for a number of years now. Do try to keep up. >Let me guess - if Kerry had been elected in '04, in '08 you'd still be >blaming Bush for the fact that OBL hadn't been brought to justice yet. > >Am I right? Bush said in 2001 just after 9/11 that Bin Laden was our #1 target, we will never give up. Now he is saying we don't care about Bin Laden. You do realize 9/11 occurred under the Bush administration? >If you can find the evidence, I'll support impeachment of Bush. We have evidence. The missing WMDS that Bush lied about. ------------------------------------------ http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com >>You're not listening. >> >>It doesn't matter why Bush is against it - what matters is Kyoto >>screws the USA. >No. Kyoto doesn't screw the US. Kyoto screws Bush and Channey >who makes lots of money from oil. Kyoto was a bad deal before Bush got into office and it's still a bad deal now that he is in office. >>Bush is motivated by selfish and corrupt interests, but that doesn't >>mean that everything he does is bad for this country. >Exactly how is having clean air not in the interest of the United >States? Clean air is in our best interests, but the way in which Kyoto would have us attempt to clean the air is not. >>Wrong - he is a corporate interest. >It would seem you're swallowing the republican B*****IT hook >line and sinker. It would seem that you are illiterate. >Here is a newsflash for you: some of use disagree with Bush >and realize that alot of people in Washington DC are bought >and paid for by special interests. Here's a newsflash for you: I'm one of those people. Here's another newsflash: The Democrats are just as dirty as Republicans. >>Bush didn't make any money from oil. He made his money from good ole' >>boy "investors" who were purchasing influence. >And Channey made $8,000,000 from oil. Do you get all your news from talk radio? Is that why you can't even spell the VP's name? >>If Congress wanted it, they could get it - and that's the beautiful >>thing about our system of gov't. No matter how f.cked Bush is, he is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I like John Kerry. He has been my senator for many years. Also >I protested the Viet Nam war with him. That's wonderful, but he sucks as a candidate for President. You gotta admit, the GOP set the bar pretty f.cking low by nominating GW - let's hope we have better choices next election >>> and who will have a Manahattan type >>>project to find a cheap, plentiful, clean form of energy to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>decades. >No I never said anything about nukes. But you did mention something cheap, plentiful and clean. >Note I said Manahattan >type project. Note there is nothing besides nukes that meets your requirements. >The Manahattan project created the bomb, in this case >what I'm proposing is getting together people to >create a new form of energy that is clean, cheap, >and plentiful. What's wrong with nuclear energy? >I'm opposed to nuclear power even more now than >I was decades ago. Why? >They keep saying it will withstand >a 747 crash. Well i'm not wiling to test that >theory out. In fact I want national guard troops >at our nuke plants prepared to shoot down any >plane that someone trys to crash into the nuke >plant. Great! >>Yeah, met too. Both Bush and Clinton were probably too stoned or too >>busy getting laid to remember though. >You do realize Clinton hasn't been president for a number of years >now. Do try to keep up. Why do you keep snipping what I'm replying to? It makes it difficult to follow the context. At any rate, re-read what I replied to and maybe you'll get it - but I doubt it. >>Let me guess - if Kerry had been elected in '04, in '08 you'd still be >>blaming Bush for the fact that OBL hadn't been brought to justice yet. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >we will never give up. Now he is saying we don't care about Bin >Laden. That's true, but why did you dodge the question? >You do realize 9/11 occurred under the Bush administration? You do realize it would have happened even if Gore had been elected, don't you? >>If you can find the evidence, I'll support impeachment of Bush. >We have evidence. The missing WMDS that Bush lied about. You have nothing. Do try to keep up. And why don't you post the BBC article where they said Bush stole the '04 election? >------------------------------------------ > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups >----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- >>No. Kyoto doesn't screw the US. Kyoto screws Bush and Channey >>who makes lots of money from oil. > >Kyoto was a bad deal before Bush got into office and it's still a bad >deal now that he is in office. How is clean air a bad deal? Oh yeah, you like coughing your lungs out and having lots of pollution. >Clean air is in our best interests, but the way in which Kyoto would >have us attempt to clean the air is not. Clean air is available now. If congress were to pass legislation forcing car makers to produce cars today that would gtive out zero emmisions they would start doing it tomorrow. They have the technology. >Here's another newsflash: The Democrats are just as dirty as >Republicans. But the republicans have used dirty tricks to steal the election and for all we know to steal congress. >Do you get all your news from talk radio? Is that why you can't even >spell the VP's name? I can spell the VPs name.....C R O O K. >That's wonderful, but he sucks as a candidate for President. And Bush sucks even more. >You gotta admit, the GOP set the bar pretty f.cking low by nominating >GW - let's hope we have better choices next election Like Gingrich, Gulianni, Jeb Bush (the guy who will let Couey walk free), etc. >But you did mention something cheap, plentiful and clean. Nuclear power is not safe and it also isn't clean. (There is this matter of what to do with the waste. And I suppose in this era of terrorism you like the idea of having all this nuclear waste available for terroirists to use.) >Note there is nothing besides nukes that meets your requirements. Then we need to invent something. >What's wrong with nuclear energy? 1. taget for terrorists. 2. nuclear waste disposal. 3. I don't want Enron type corporations running my Nuclear plants. 4. melt downs. >Why do you keep snipping what I'm replying to? It makes it difficult >to follow the context. Because some people don't have high speed connections. Some are on S L O W dialup connections and have to wait for along time to down mesages. I have a high speed connection but I remember what it was like to have a slow connection. Also sometimes I read my e-mail and stuff on my cell phone. >That's true, but why did you dodge the question? Clinton hasn't been president for years now but repiublicans seem detemined to blame him for all the ills of this country. >You do realize it would have happened even if Gore had been elected, >don't you? So you've got an inside track on information from Al Queda? ------------------------------------------ http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com >>>No. Kyoto doesn't screw the US. Kyoto screws Bush and Channey >>>who makes lots of money from oil. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >How is clean air a bad deal? Oh yeah, you like coughing your lungs >out and having lots of pollution. Try reading my whole post before making a fool of yourself. >>Clean air is in our best interests, but the way in which Kyoto would >>have us attempt to clean the air is not. >Clean air is available now. If congress were to pass legislation >forcing car makers to produce cars today that would gtive out >zero emmisions they would start doing it tomorrow. And do you envision the gov't bailing out GM and Ford like they did with Chrysler (which is now owned by Daimler (germans)). >They have the >technology. Yeah, I saw Kelso make that claim on That '70s Show too. Only I realized it was just a stupid sitcom, not a documentary. >>Here's another newsflash: The Democrats are just as dirty as >>Republicans. >But the republicans have used dirty tricks to steal the election >and for all we know to steal congress. You've still offered no evidence of that, but of course there's that old legend about LBJ. So the story goes, when LBJ was running for office in Texas, he told his campaign manager to spread a rumor about his opponent - that he was having sex with sheep. His campaign manager said that's crazy and that noone would believe that. LBJ replied that it didn't matter if anyone believed it, he just wanted his opponent to deny it. I don't know if that story is true, but nevertheless I have as much evidence for it as you have that Bush "stole" the election. After all, I read it in a book published by a famous journalist. (It was by Hunter Thompson - I don't remember which one, probably FLLV '72) >>Do you get all your news from talk radio? Is that why you can't even >>spell the VP's name? >I can spell the VPs name.....C R O O K. That spelling applies to most politicians from both sides of the aisle. >>That's wonderful, but he sucks as a candidate for President. >And Bush sucks even more. I don't disagree with you there, but you're basically talking about the difference between a turd sandwich and a giant douche. >>You gotta admit, the GOP set the bar pretty f.cking low by nominating >>GW - let's hope we have better choices next election >Like Gingrich, Gulianni, Jeb Bush (the guy who will let Couey walk >free), etc. I liked Bob Dole, but he's retired and I believe him about that. McCain would certainly be woirld's better than Gingrich or Jeb. I don't know enough about Gulianni to say whether I would consider voting for him. I really don't give a sh.t about NYC politics. Your criticism of Jeb is unfair, however. The laws in every state are too lenient WRT repeat-offender criminals and Couey had been arrested over 20 times, although I'm not sure how many of those arrests resulted in convictions - most were for burglary. Nevertheless, I agree he shouldn't have been out of prison, but you have to blame the legislature too and even us, the voters. >>But you did mention something cheap, plentiful and clean. >Nuclear power is not safe and it also isn't clean. poppycock! > (There is this >matter of what to do with the waste. Damn, what's that mountain in Nevada called??? Yucca Mountain, that's it! Perfectly viable solution, or simply store it on site if you don't want to transport it - that's what we've been doing for decades in some cases and so far nobody's been hurt as a result of it. Before you mention TMI, make sure you can name even 1 victim of that "accident". >And I suppose in this >era of terrorism you like the idea of having all this nuclear waste >available for terroirists to use.) Not at all, but you're naive if you think harnessing nuclear power is going to make it available to terrorists. As was demonstrated in the UK earlier today, the terrorists will strike no matter what and despite the damage they inflicted, they are largely incompetent. >>Note there is nothing besides nukes that meets your requirements. >Then we need to invent something. Okay, Edison - you invent something better and I'll invest in it. Until then, I say we build more nuclear plants. >>What's wrong with nuclear energy? >1. taget for terrorists. Everything is a target for terrorists >2. nuclear waste disposal. Simple - keep it on site or ship it to Yucca Mountain. >3. I don't want Enron type corporations running my Nuclear plants. I don't want "Enron type corporations" running anything. I am a victim of Enron's scams, but I'm not foolish enough to put all my eggs in one basket and it matters little to the investor if they are scammed by a corporation using nuclear power or by one using your as-yet-to-be-discovered pie-in-the-sky energy source. >4. melt downs. What melt-downs? Nuclear power plants are quite possibly the most regulated industry in the US. There has never been a meltdown and despite what you may have seen on the Simpson's, |
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