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Cat Forum / General Topics / May 2005Crazy idea?
I'd like to teach my two wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least to give them very entertaining and instructive to do. I want them to be like my girlfriends' cats, that cool cat who killed bunnies and birds. I am considering the idea of buying several small rodents from the pet store and releasing them in the house. I'm very curious to see how the kittens will react. Will they give chase? I sure hope so. Anway, am I crazy? Cruel? More importantly, will the kitties benefit from this? What kind of rodents should I buy? Thanks :) > I'd like to teach my two wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least > to give them very entertaining and instructive to do. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks :) You're sick.  SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat. >> TROLL DRIVEL > You're sick. Not only that, it's a troll. TROLL-BE-QUE TIME!!!!! From Southern Favorite Recipes by Willorene Morrow Sausage Cheese Balls 3 cups Bisquick Mix 2 cups sharp cheese, grated 1 lb. mild sausage (or hot if preferred) Mix all ingredients together. If two thick, add water. Make small 1 inch balls and bake in 350 F. degree oven for 15-20 minutes. Personal note: I love to make this for parties or as an Hors D'Oeuvres for potluck meals. I don't know what the European equivalent to Bisquick is, but would love to learn Pam S. Pamela Shirk wrote: >>> TROLL DRIVEL > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Pam S. I love these things! You can also freeze them on a baking sheet, then put them in a container and have them ready to just pop them in the oven if an unexpected occasion comes up. As for the Bisquick, it's essentially flour mixed with some baking powder, a little salt and vegetable shortening. Lard or butter would also work. I don't know the proportions off the top of my head but I'd say approximagely 2-1/2 cups flour, 2 tsp. baking powder, 1 tsp. salt and about 4 Tbs. shortening or lard, cut into the dry ingredients and stirred until the mixture is crumbly. Proceed as usual. Jill Pamela Shirk wrote: >>> TROLL DRIVEL > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Pam S. Oh these little appetizers go over very well. I got the recipe from a co-worker over 20 years ago. I THINK she used bleu cheese and they were a bit overwhelming. So, silly me, I started using Wisconsin cheddar or American cheese. Party Pizzas on Rye 1 lb. ground/minced beef 1 lb. mild bulk pork sausage 1 lb. finely shredded cheddar or American cheese 1 tsp. dried basil 1 tsp. dried oregano 1/4 tsp. garlic powder 2 Tbs. dried parsley 1-1/2 loaves of "party" rye bread slices Brown the beef and sausage together; drain well. Add the cheese and seasonings and stir until cheese is melted melted and mixture is well blended. Spoon the mixture (by teaspoofuls) onto the party rye slices. Place on a baking sheet and FREEZE. When ready to serve, place them under a preheated broiler element for 5-7 minutes. Jill >>> TROLL DRIVEL > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Pam S. Reminds me of "Pigs in Blankets" (Sausage Rolls). > >>> TROLL DRIVEL > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Reminds me of "Pigs in Blankets" (Sausage Rolls). I cannot keep bisquick in the house for this reason. Too many totally delicious deadly non-nutritious things to do with it!! Like pancakes at 3 in the morning and piggies in blankets at midnight! I am weeeeeaaaaakkkkkk. :) Growing up, my mom made drop biscuits with it, which we devoured with butter and honey every Sunday. So there is also the nostalgia factor! >> >>> TROLL DRIVEL >> > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > butter > and honey every Sunday. So there is also the nostalgia factor! I know what you mean, I miss all the great food my grandmother made when I was a kid. Buckwheat pancakes, homemade bread, Pizza for a bedtime snack, cornbread with corn syrup, peameal bacon, biscuits, rhubarb pie, etc. Sadly my metabolism has almost stopped, so the treats are fewer and farther between. :( > I'd like to teach my two wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least > to give them very entertaining and instructive to do. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks :) I'm not sure what anyone else will say...but if you could see the expression on my face I think it would speak volumes more than any words I could come up with. Not only is it cruel to the poor rodents you just let loose for your (not really your cat's) entertainment but you're just being mean to your cats too. Why mess with them? Just let them be. Yes, cats kill bunnies and birds, that just a natural thing. But why try to teach them to do so? I wouldn't encourage my cat to do such things. Just my two cents...find another way to amuse yourself. Beth > up with. Not only is it cruel to the poor rodents you just let loose for > your (not really your cat's) entertainment Touche'. But dont tell me you wouldnt be curious to see what happens in a scenario like that. > but you're just being mean to > your cats too. Why mess with them? Just let them be. I'm never mean to my cats. Never even yell at them. >> up with. Not only is it cruel to the poor rodents you just let loose for >> your (not really your cat's) entertainment [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I'm never mean to my cats. Never even yell at them. Well I'm glad you're not mean to them...but no I wouldn't want to see what would happen in a situation like that. I'd be rather disgusted if a half eaten mouse was brought to me. Plus, I think it's mean to the poor little mouse who wasn't doing anything. It's not like you have a mouse problem and want the cat to get rid of them. I just think it's a weird thing to do in the name of amusement. >>> up with. Not only is it cruel to the poor rodents you just let loose >>> for your (not really your cat's) entertainment [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > problem and want the cat to get rid of them. I just think it's a weird > thing to do in the name of amusement. Not much weirder than posting offensive stuff to a newsgroup to see how much of a reaction he can get. He must be very easily amused, and you are just buying into it. Jo >>>> up with. Not only is it cruel to the poor rodents you just let loose >>>> for your (not really your cat's) entertainment [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> problem and want the cat to get rid of them. I just think it's a weird >> thing to do in the name of amusement. Good point :) Call me a sucker, but I like to give the newbies a bit of a chance since I was completely flamed for some of my early questions :) But I still can't help expressing my opinion. Oh well. > Not much weirder than posting offensive stuff to a newsgroup to see how > much of a reaction he can get. He must be very easily amused, and you are > just buying into it. > > Jo > >>>> up with. Not only is it cruel to the poor rodents you just let loose > >>>> for your (not really your cat's) entertainment [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Good point :) Call me a sucker, but I like to give the newbies a bit of a > chance since I was completely flamed for some of my early questions :) Your instincts are right on. > >>> up with. Not only is it cruel to the poor rodents you just let loose > >>> for your (not really your cat's) entertainment [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Jo Just because you don't like what is posted, does not mean that the poster brought up a topic just to bother you. Believe it or not, you are not the center of the Universe in any but your own world. > > I'd like to teach my two wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least > > to give them very entertaining and instructive to do. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > on my face I think it would speak volumes more than any words I could come > up with. It's kind of like saying, "I have a dog that I want to be a great hunter, so I was thinking about getting a couple of kittens and letting them loose in the house. Do you think that is cruel?" > It's kind of like saying, "I have a dog that I want to be a great hunter, > so I was thinking about getting a couple of kittens and letting them loose > in the house. Do you think that is cruel?" Are you equating kittens with rats/mice? Rats or mice are just dumb, dirty pests. >> It's kind of like saying, "I have a dog that I want to be a great >> hunter, so I was thinking about getting a couple of kittens and >> letting them loose in the house. Do you think that is cruel?" > > Are you equating kittens with rats/mice? > Rats or mice are just dumb, dirty pests. They are mamals, as you are. SignatureAdrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat. > > It's kind of like saying, "I have a dog that I want to be a great hunter, > > so I was thinking about getting a couple of kittens and letting them loose > > in the house. Do you think that is cruel?" > > Are you equating kittens with rats/mice? > Rats or mice are just dumb, dirty pests. Open your mind. Understand that there are differing points of view that are also valid points of view. And understand that whether or not you know it, every good and bad thing you do will come back to you tenfold. You do not need to believe this--it will be demonstrated in your life, if it has not already been. In general, it is bad to cause unnecessary suffering and death. That is all I have to say. >>>It's kind of like saying, "I have a dog that I want to be a great > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > also valid points of view. And understand that whether or not you know it, > every good and bad thing you do will come back to you tenfold. Right. GWB is a great example of that. An evil, corrupt, scumbag who enjoys riches and power. > >>>It's kind of like saying, "I have a dog that I want to be a great > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Right. GWB is a great example of that. An evil, corrupt, scumbag who > enjoys riches and power. Open it further. Look beyond the moment. Strettttttch you attention span, grasshoppah. :) >>>>It's kind of like saying, "I have a dog that I want to be a great >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Right. GWB is a great example of that. An evil, corrupt, scumbag who >enjoys riches and power. Damn! I didn't expect this thread to turn to politics. I think I got whiplash. >> It's kind of like saying, "I have a dog that I want to be a great hunter, >> so I was thinking about getting a couple of kittens and letting them loose >> in the house. Do you think that is cruel?" > >Are you equating kittens with rats/mice? >Rats or mice are just dumb, dirty pests. Uncontrolled cats that prowl the outdoors at night are no different from rats or mice who do the same, IM(ns)HO. > I'd like to teach my two wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least > to give them very entertaining and instructive to do. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks :) And I just realized that you're also the one who wrote about them being scared after their baths. If you're thinking that makes them wimpy...it doesn't. Leave the poor things alone or give them to someone who doesn't want to use them for twisted amusement. > Anway, am I crazy? Cruel? More importantly, will the > kitties benefit from this? What kind of rodents should I buy? Very, very cruel! No need to do this to entertain your kittens. They will get the same kind of fun if you buy them toys such as fur-covered toy mice, dangly toys with feathers that you can dangle and drag for them to chase, or even remote-controlled toy mice! You can provide the action by using all kinds of toys and not subjecting other living animals to a cruel torment. HTH Deb. Signaturehttp://www.scientific-art.com "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield "Debbie Wilson" <djmaizels@mac.com> wrote : >You can provide the > action by using all kinds of toys and not subjecting other living > animals to a cruel torment. Yep! Several times a day Cheeky presents me with a rubber snake that long ago lost its head and tail, its red forked snaky tongue, and many other distinguishing characteristics just from being conquered so much. She does this with much yowling and an extremely proud and pleased-with-herself look. Sometimes he does this upstairs when we are downstairs. I hear the yowling as we are watching television or whatever we are doing and say to my husband, "sounds like it's gonna be a good year for snakes, Papa." :) Or, "Damn, it must be an infestation! Thatis the third one today." Then the Great Hunter zooms by, drops the snake at my feet and says "meh" on her way out. >> Anway, am I crazy? Cruel? More importantly, will the >> kitties benefit from this? What kind of rodents should I buy? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >toy mice, dangly toys with feathers that you can dangle and drag for >them to chase, or even remote-controlled toy mice! It really depends on the cat. The novelty of those things can wear out very quickly. > You can provide the >action by using all kinds of toys and not subjecting other living [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Deb. > I'd like to teach my two wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least > to give them very entertaining and instructive to do. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks :) Congratulations, that's the weirdest post from a not otherwise obviously certifiable poster/troll that I've read. I seriously wouldn't bother, though; unless they've been taught to hunt by an older cat, chances are they'll just play with it as they would any moving object, then eventually you have to kill the mice (who won't be in very good shape) yourself and dispose of the bodies. YMMV as to whether you think that's fun; I don't, personally. pat >> I'd like to teach my two wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least >> to give them very entertaining and instructive to do. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > in very good shape) yourself and dispose of the bodies. YMMV as to > whether you think that's fun; I don't, personally. I see. That's useful information. Thanks. >> I seriously wouldn't bother, though; unless they've been taught to >> hunt by an older cat, chances are they'll just play with it as they [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I see. That's useful information. It's supposed to be. I usually have a little more patience with trolling than the average poster. Laser pointers are the most fun (shined on walls, not in eyes); live stuff either hides under the furniture pretty quick or goes limp (no "fun" either way). Most people prefer the non-hunting variety of housecats, mostly because there's nothing like walking to the bathroom at 2am and stepping on half a mouse in your bare feet. And of course there's the etiquette problem of what to do when puss presents you with "tonight's meal". pat 4 cats who thankfully couldn't be bothered to bring home "not-so-fast"-food. > > rpl wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > And of course there's the etiquette problem of what to do when puss > presents you with "tonight's meal". Thanks. I wasnt trolling. I've never had any pets before, and got these 2 kittens a few months ago. I'm a total cat newbie. My girlfriend introduced me to the world of cats. Her cat is a great white hunter, she kills bunnies and birds, and I find that fascinating (because I'm a city person, I guess). To me, hunting is one the things that make cats so much cooler than dogs. > Thanks. I wasnt trolling. I've never had any pets before, and got > these 2 kittens a few months ago. I'm a total cat newbie. > My girlfriend introduced me to the world of cats. Her cat is a great > white hunter, she kills bunnies and birds, and I find that > fascinating (because I'm a city person, I guess). To me, hunting > is one the things that make cats so much cooler than dogs. Cats are probably the most efficient hunting machines ever created. Teaching them to hunt is redundant. As they grow to maturity their instincts will guide them in that direction. > Thanks. I wasnt trolling. Sure looked like it... you didn't get much of a response with "look at the dead bunny" so upped the ante to "what kind of rodents should I bring home for my cats to kill" > I've never had any pets before, and got > these 2 kittens a few months ago. I'm a total cat newbie. > My girlfriend introduced me to the world of cats. Her cat is a great > white hunter, she kills bunnies and birds, and I find that > fascinating (because I'm a city person, I guess). To me, hunting > is one the things that make cats so much cooler than dogs. Dogs'll hunt too, but they tend to chase larger prey (mice are too small for them to notice) and they aren't as "vertically oriented" as cats are so birds/squirrels escape too easily. Cats rarely bring anything home worth eating (exception of a poster who's cat's "kill" was a neighbours cooked thanksgiving turkey); some continue to try, and some just accept that you're not interested. pat >>> I seriously wouldn't bother, though; unless they've been taught to >>> hunt by an older cat, chances are they'll just play with it as they [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >It's supposed to be. I usually have a little more patience with >trolling than the average poster. I've seen 223rem in other groups and I don't think he was trolling - it's not his style. FWIW, I've thought it would be entertaining for my cat to give her a couple of mice to chase, but I figured out a few reasons why I didn't want to actually try it. First off, I figure the mice would quickly escape into a closet where they would simply become pests. Then of course, there's the mess they would make if the cat actually seriously hurt or killed the mice and although I wouldn't lose much sleep over the suffering of a mouse who was killed quickly and cleanly by a cat, I suspect there's a good chance it would die a lengthy death underneath some piece of furniture where it would simply become a stinky mess to clean up. That you have more than 1 cat means they can at least entertain themselves. Mine spends hours looking out the window at the birds as long as I fill the feeder. She definitely understands some aspects of hunting. It's just instinct. This is my first cat, but I've seen dogs who also instinctually hunted. Unlike others, I don't believe hunting is something you would have to teach a naturally carnivorous animal. Though many domesticated cats may simply lose interest once their prey stops moving, a cat without a regular supply of feed would quickly figure it out - or die. I think more would figure it out than die. >Laser pointers are the most fun (shined on walls, not in eyes); live >stuff either hides under the furniture pretty quick or goes limp (no [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >And of course there's the etiquette problem of what to do when puss >presents you with "tonight's meal". Keep the deep fryer at the ready. >pat > >4 cats who thankfully couldn't be bothered to bring home "not-so-fast"-food. >Then of course, there's the mess they would make if the cat actually >seriously hurt or killed the mice and although I wouldn't lose much >sleep over the suffering of a mouse who was killed quickly and cleanly >by a cat, I suspect there's a good chance it would die a lengthy death >underneath some piece of furniture where it would simply become a >stinky mess to clean up. Cats do not kill quickly or cleanly. No predator does, really. Cats 'play' with their prey in order to wound it badly anough so that when they come in for the killing bite there's less of a chance that the prey could hurt the cat. Orchid See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid > Cats do not kill quickly or cleanly. No predator does, > really. Cats 'play' with their prey in order to wound it badly anough > so that when they come in for the killing bite there's less of a > chance that the prey could hurt the cat. Never heard it put that way... hmm. But with the exception of momma cat teaching young'uns, I've never seen cats play with their food; I'm not counting the "fierce predator" coming into the kitchen with a live (but mildly unhappy) bird in his/her mouth to show off. And I've seen a barncat (great grandma to a couple that I have) dispatch 5 mice at once, not playing at all, just crunch, squish, rip. pat > Orchid > See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage > Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid >> Cats do not kill quickly or cleanly. No predator does, >> really. Cats 'play' with their prey in order to wound it badly anough [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >And I've seen a barncat (great grandma to a couple that I have) dispatch >5 mice at once, not playing at all, just crunch, squish, rip. And wouldn't you know it, after reading Orchid's post, I turned on a nature show and saw a very clean kill. >pat > >> Orchid >> See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage >> Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid >And wouldn't you know it, after reading Orchid's post, I turned on a >nature show and saw a very clean kill. Really? What predator was that? Man? Orchid See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid >>And wouldn't you know it, after reading Orchid's post, I turned on a >>nature show and saw a very clean kill. > > Really? What predator was that? Man? No, actually it was a wolf or a fox, but I've seen cats do the same thing. >Orchid >See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage >Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid >>>And wouldn't you know it, after reading Orchid's post, I turned on a >>>nature show and saw a very clean kill. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >No, actually it was a wolf or a fox, but I've seen cats do the same >thing. A clean kill. From a canid? Wolves routinely harry and hamstring their prey. Foxes tend to kill marginally quicker because rabbits will escape if they can. So how was the kill clean? What was it? Orchid See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid > I'd like to teach my two wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least to give them > very entertaining and instructive to do. I want them to be like my [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Thanks :) Another troll like yourself should do it. MLB time for a new recipe, folks? SignatureIrulan from the stars we come to the stars we return from now until the end of time > I'd like to teach my two wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least > to give them very entertaining and instructive to do. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks :) For those who don't know firearms, a .223 Remington is a rifle cartridge, used as a 'varmint' round, for target shooting, and by the US military's M16 rifle. >I'd like to teach my two wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least >to give them very entertaining and instructive to do. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >to see how the kittens will react. Will they give chase? I >sure hope so. Assuming you aren't just trolling... >Anway, am I crazy? Not enough info. >Cruel? If you do this. >More importantly, will the kitties benefit from this? No, they'll benefit more from a "Cat Dancer" or other interactive toy. My Dear Heart taught our boy Sumo to hunt by chastising his attempts to swat it with one paw and praising his success when he used both. She then started to praise him whenever he grabbed it in his teeth and shook it or whenever he 'bunny kicked' it. Eventually, his technique became refined to the point where we feel he could hunt as well as if he'd been taught by a wild mother cat. >What kind of rodents should I buy? Pet shops routinely stock mice and, as with goldfish, call them feeders. I've fed live goldfish to my large tropical fish and mice to my snake. I was resigned to the fact that some pets need live prey -- cats are not among them. >Thanks :) Do your karma a favor and give up this idea as an interesting thought, but not one to put into practice. -- Regards and Purrs, O J > For those who don't know firearms, a .223 Remington is a rifle > cartridge, used as a 'varmint' round, for target shooting, and by the > US military's M16 rifle. I'd tend to think of it as 5.56mm; got mixed up with the lightweight magnum round (.256?) Pat Pat wrote: >> For those who don't know firearms, a .223 Remington is a rifle >> cartridge, used as a 'varmint' round, for target shooting, and by the >> US military's M16 rifle. > >I'd tend to think of it as 5.56mm; got mixed up with the lightweight >magnum round (.256?) You're quite correct that the 5.56mm designation refers to the US/NATO round for many uses. The .223 Remington is the civilian designation of that round. -- Regards and Purrs, O J > I'd like to teach my two wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least > to give them very entertaining and instructive to do. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks :) Realize this is just feeding the troll, but really.. Do you not realize that some of us may also be owned by rodent pets? hmmmm? Kristy owned by Possum, Tygra, Gary the betta fish and Miss Mousie. : I'd like to teach my two wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least : to give them very entertaining and instructive to do. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] : : Anway, am I crazy? Yes! : Cruel? Yes! : More importantly, will the : kitties benefit from this? No! : What kind of rodents should I buy? Toy ones from the pet shop that make a noise, ping pong balls will do too. : Thanks :) You're welcome. You're probably an adolescent who is just trying to get attention. > I'd like to teach my two wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least > to give them very entertaining and instructive to do. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks :)
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