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Mogie - 13 Jan 2004 20:50 GMT

We recently adopted a very sweet cat from our local no-kill shelter. He gets
along fine with all the other cats except one. Maurice has always been very
gentle until we brought YooHoo home. He attacks the new guy. All our fixed
so that isn't a problem.

I've tried keeping them seperate and slowly introducing them. They are about
the same age. I make sure that Maurice (the older cat) gets lots of love and
attention. I feed them seperately.

The attacks aren't getting fewer and further between If anything they are
increasing. Please we are desperate for suggestions.

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Gee - 14 Jan 2004 02:23 GMT

> We recently adopted a very sweet cat from our local no-kill shelter.

Firstly, how recent is recent? Are we talking 2-3 days, or 2-3 months? It's
an important difference because if its only been a few days, the fighting is
pretty much a normal reaction which may subside with time, although two of
them may never see eye to eye, but will learn to tolerate each other. If
it's already been 2-3 weeks or more then a month, the problem is bigger.

>Maurice has always been very
> gentle until we brought YooHoo home. He attacks the new guy. All our fixed
> so that isn't a problem.

Male cats can be extremely territorial, even if fixed.Again, if it's only
been a few days, the main problem is difference in smell between the two.
Instead of waiting for mother nature to make them smell the same, rub some
tuna brine on both of them, or if you dare give them both a bath with same
shampoo. This will reduce difference in smell thus making the newby less of
a "threat".

> I've tried keeping them seperate and slowly introducing them. They are about
> the same age. I make sure that Maurice (the older cat) gets lots of love and
> attention.

Nothing works better then bribe and attention. Maurice feels threatened and
annoyed with new cat on his territory. You must associate new cat with good
stuff for Maurice. This includes giving him lots of his favourite treats and
ONLY when Maurice is nearby. Also much more attention to Maurice then a
newby. MUCH MORE. Especially when newby is around. Sort the difference in
smell as described.

If it's been longer then say a few weeks, then the fighting may have become
a habit, so more serious measures might be added: Get a spray bottle and put
some water in it. When you see Maurice attack newby, spray some water on
him. Try and not let him see it's coming from you, as you don;t want to
associate anything bad with you, but you do want to associate the fight with
something bad.

Never tried this, but if fights are serious and if Maurice is going for the
neck, you may wanna try putting a touch of say Hot pepper sauce on newby's
neck where he can;t reach it and lick it off, but Maurice will when he
bites. This of course will give him a lesson he won;t forget in a rush.

>I feed them seperately.

I am not sure if this is good or bad. I force all mine to eat from the same
plate from the day one. That way they have to eat together, or they miss out
on the best bits. Perhaps other will give their input on this.

> The attacks aren't getting fewer and further between If anything they are
> increasing.

Yeah, I suppose they are becoming a habit. Also, are they really fights, or
are they play-fights? My Charlie who was a stray tends to "attack" others
but I know he is doing it as a game, rather then real fight. The difference
I suppose is that there is no hissing or fight-yowling from Charlie's part,
he attacks them firstly shaking his bum, as in to catch some moving object.
The other cat would fight back in self defence, sometimes crying if Charlie
bites too hard. Shadow will take it as a real fight and beat the crap out of
him :) (which is why he stopped bugging her), while Tigger lets him do it
and fights back. But there is no backing off from Tigger when he sees
Charlie coming, or making scared body postures. Do you think your Newby is
scared of Maurice? Does he fight back? Does he cry or ,do they hiss and yowl
at each other before the fight?

Gee

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jmilam - 14 Jan 2004 09:03 GMT

Some great tips on these links;

http://www.catcaresociety.org/intro.htm

http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/catintro.htm

http://www.ivillage.com/pets/expert/behavior/articles/0,,261732_69704,00.htm
l

http://www.natureofanimals.com/article1002.html

> > We recently adopted a very sweet cat from our local no-kill shelter.
>
[quoted text clipped - 63 lines]
>
> Gee

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MaryL - 14 Jan 2004 17:46 GMT

> > We recently adopted a very sweet cat from our local no-kill shelter.
>
> Never tried this, but if fights are serious and if Maurice is going for the
> neck, you may wanna try putting a touch of say Hot pepper sauce on newby's
> neck where he can;t reach it and lick it off, but Maurice will when he
> bites. This of course will give him a lesson he won;t forget in a rush.

I think this would be a *huge* mistake. First, There are other cats in the
household -- imagine their reaction if they ingest the hot pepper sauch;
Second, YooHoo might get some in his mouth, no matter how carefully it is
placed; Third, hot pepper *burns* if I accidentally touch a seed, and I
wonder if this same thing might not occur on YooHoo's skin.

> >I feed them seperately.
>
> I am not sure if this is good or bad. I force all mine to eat from the same
> plate from the day one. That way they have to eat together, or they miss out
> on the best bits. Perhaps other will give their input on this.

Gee

I prefer to use separate plates for my cats. I wouldn't like it if someone
forced me to eat off the same plate as someone else. I do keep their plates
in the same area, so they eat side-by-side.

MaryL

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Gee - 14 Jan 2004 19:07 GMT

"MaryL" <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message >>

>>you may wanna try putting a touch of say Hot pepper sauce on newby's
> > neck where he can;t reach it and lick it off, but Maurice will when he
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> placed; Third, hot pepper *burns* if I accidentally touch a seed, and I
> wonder if this same thing might not occur on YooHoo's skin.

Actually Hot Pepper Sauce is basicaly sold here in UK in almost liquid form
as a sauce (Lea& Perrins Cook's Helper hot Pepper sauce or Encona's West
Indian Hot pepper sauce) and used for humans to dip say chips or chicken
dippers in and eat as it is. It's actually spicy but highly delicious :) So
even though it's spicy it's not dangerous( I believe), but for a cat a taste
of something like this may give a small unpleasant shock, which will teach
him not to bite his "brother" anymore. All it takes a little (and I
emphasise little) bit of sauce wiped on the top of the furr on the back of
the YooHoo's neck. Other cats will have no business touching the neck of his
neck apart from biting.

But yes, Yoohoo may try to clean himself and ingest some of the "horrible"
sauce himself. This is why the sauce would be placed at the same location
where you'd usually place the Frontline drops so they can;t reach it.

I have just tested it by letting Tigger smell the bottle and he gave me the
face like "are you mad" and took off :) so smell alone should be strong
enough deterant. I have also placed it on my skin for couple of minutes and
as I thought no problems, but then again someone else's skin may be more
sensitive. Perhaps place some not on the skin or furr, but on the collar?

Gee

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MaryL - 14 Jan 2004 19:36 GMT

> "MaryL" <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message >>
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> the YooHoo's neck. Other cats will have no business touching the neck of his
> neck apart from biting.

No, it's not dangerous, but it can create a "burning" sensation on the skin.
I don't understand why you say others cats would have "no business" touching
another cat's neck other than biting. Haven't you ever seen cats groom each
other? And what about normal play?

MaryL

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Gee - 14 Jan 2004 23:01 GMT

"MaryL" <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message

> No, it's not dangerous, but it can create a "burning" sensation on the skin.
> I don't understand why you say others cats would have "no business" touching
> another cat's neck other than biting. Haven't you ever seen cats groom each
> other? And what about normal play?
>
> MaryL

That is absolutely truth, and if they do groom each other, very possible. I
must admit this totally skipped my mind, so must take that last sentence
back.

Burning sensation however, IS the point of my suggestion, so Maurice
remembers it for good and stops hurting Yoohoo. Burning sensation will go
away after a few minutes and lots of water later, but hopefully the memory
will stay. Maurice will stop biting Yoohoo and Yoohoo will get a peaceful
life. That is what essentially needs to be accomplished.

Mary, this suggestion was just that, a suggestion. It may or may not work
it's up to others if they wanna take it up or not. I just know that if I had
two kitties that fought so badly, and nothing else worked, I would look for
alternative measure. My mother used the Hot pepper sauce method on me when I
was little and it sure thought me a lesson, as nothing else worked. I am the
first person who advises the positive associations, which is described in my
first reply here, but as I said if all else fails, this could an
alternative. So as long as it isn;t dangerous to cats, and it shouldn;t be,
it's a valid alternative, IMHO.

Besides, judging by my Tigger, the smell of it will probably be a deterrent
enough.

Gee

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MaryL - 14 Jan 2004 23:20 GMT

> "MaryL" <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Mary, this suggestion was just that, a suggestion.

Yes, I realize you are only trying to make a suggestion to help YooHoo, and
I must admit that I don't have any experience using hot peppr sauce on cats.
However, I thing I may not have made myself clear -- one of my concerns was
that placing the sauce on YooHoo's fur might permit it to get down to
YooHoo's, skin, and so he would be the one to feel the burning sensation (or
possibly one of the "friendly" cats).

> Besides, judging by my Tigger, the smell of it will probably be a deterrent
> enough.

Again, it would be YooHoo who would have to withstand the scent on a
longer-term basis, not Maruice

> Gee

(I apologize if I sound somewhat annoyed in my messages ... I didn't intend
it that way; I'm simply trying to respond with my own thoughts.)

MaryL

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Gee - 15 Jan 2004 15:27 GMT

"MaryL" <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message >

> one of my concerns was
> that placing the sauce on YooHoo's fur might permit it to get down to
> YooHoo's, skin, and so he would be the one to feel the burning sensation (or
> possibly one of the "friendly" cats).

That's true, the last thing poor Yoohoo needs is more pain :( Although I
don;t think the sauce is strong enough, I suppose burning/alergic reaction
is always possible (to pretty much anything isn't it).

I checked the list of toxic plants for cats
http://www.cfainc.org/articles/plants.html and
http://www.tcainc.org/newsletter/articles/nov96.html#plants, pepper is not
on it, but as Mary said, there is no doubt that red hot peppers are HOT, so
I guess if you are going to follow this suggestion just make sure you are
there to watch Yoohoo and others, put only a TINY bit on the furr(NOT on
skin) and if there is any reaction, wash immidiately.

> Again, it would be YooHoo who would have to withstand the scent on a
> longer-term basis, not Maruice

That is a more then valid point. Hmm, can;t think of anything to come around
this one. All I can say is that if all other methods fail, and if it was my
cats, I would think that it is worth for Yoohoo to have 12-24 hr discomfort
if it will teach Maurice a lesson for life. But that is me. Perhaps only put
the sauce at the time you know Maurice is usually attacking Yoohoo(near
mealtime or when you get home from work - whenever you know it will happen).
Then wash the sauce out as soon as the job is done. Or really if Yoohoo is
in obvious discomfort , wash it out asap.

Perhaps instead of Hot Pepper sauce you could use something milder, like
vinegar, or mustard, or even marmite. Anything cats will dislike. Perhaps
that would be a better alternative, although not sure about the shock
effect.

> (I apologize if I sound somewhat annoyed in my messages ... I didn't intend
> it that way; I'm simply trying to respond with my own thoughts.)
>
> MaryL

Mary, I am glad for your input, as it always helps learning something new or
just opening your eyes on something you thought you knew, (which you have
opened for me on this subject :) ). I always do like reading your posts, and
think very highly of your knowledge and love for cats.

This is why I like this newsgroup, I learned so much myself here, and apart
from a few nasty individuals in the past -BB being most famous one- people
here are helpfull, give great advice and constractive criticisam. I just
wish I found the group before I decided to let my QT out, only to find out
the hard way why cats should in fact stay indoors when my boy got run over 3
weeks before his 1st b-day and his death turned me into emotional wreck for
years. Now I always try and give others advice the best I can. But obviously
I don;t know everything :) I just try and can definintly accept the
constractive criticisam :)

Gee

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M.C. Mullen - 15 Jan 2004 17:14 GMT

| Perhaps instead of Hot Pepper sauce you could use something milder, like
| vinegar, or mustard, or even marmite. Anything cats will dislike. Perhaps
| that would be a better alternative, although not sure about the shock
| effect.

We had to use tabasco sauce once for the dog. It worked.

Carola

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MaryL - 14 Jan 2004 17:49 GMT

> We recently adopted a very sweet cat from our local no-kill shelter. He gets
> along fine with all the other cats except one. Maurice has always been very
> gentle until we brought YooHoo home. He attacks the new guy. All our fixed
> so that isn't a problem.
>
> I've tried keeping them seperate and slowly introducing them.

What do you mean when you say that you tried "slowly" introducing them? I
took a full 6 weeks before I gave my two the run of the house and left them
together at all times because Holly previously had shown intense dislike for
other cats. They now get along beautifully. In the past, I *thought* I
gave Holly plenty of time for an introduction, but it was a disaster -- and
I had only waited two weeks. If you know that you have a problem, it is
particularly important to be very slow and patient with the introductions.

MaryL
(take out the litter to reply)

Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'<
http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly)
http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in")

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