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Jealous Cat

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Artisanwomyn - 10 Jan 2004 15:52 GMT
I have a six-year old male cat that I've had about six years.  I adopted him
from my neighbors when they moved out of state.  He was already declawed when I
got him.  Last week I spoted a car stop near the alley nearby my apt. and
opened the door and discarded a little kitty cat and then the car took off.  I
called to the kitty to come with me and she stayed with me for about four days.
I had to find another place for her because she and my cat did not get along
at all.  Lots of loud hissing and fighting, and this little kitten bit me about
three times and I'm not talking little nips.  No blood drawn however.  I would
like to go pick up this kitty at the shelter if no one wants her, but not sure
what I should do since my cat must feel very threatened and has no claws to
defend himself.  I miss the other kitty.  Please help!!!  Can I stop the
biting?  Can I have a clawed and declawed kitty in same household?  Will they
ever get along?  Any input is appreciated.
Ted Davis - 10 Jan 2004 16:51 GMT
>I have a six-year old male cat that I've had about six years.  I adopted him
>from my neighbors when they moved out of state.  He was already declawed when I
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>biting?  Can I have a clawed and declawed kitty in same household?  Will they
>ever get along?  Any input is appreciated.

Standard introduction procedures should work: isolate the newcomer for
anywhere from a few days to a few months, usually not more than a
week, until their smells merge and they both smell like residents of
the same home - also they will become used to each other's smell and
should get along with ever fewer fights and confrontations.  The
problem is basically one of stress due to unknown perceived threats,
so Felaway might help as well.  People do this all the time with good
results, and only the occasional failure (more often when introducing
an adult than a kitten, but still seldom enough to make the effort
worth while).

T.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu - e-mail must contain "T.E.D." or my .sig in the body)
MaryL - 10 Jan 2004 18:18 GMT
> I have a six-year old male cat that I've had about six years.  I adopted him
> from my neighbors when they moved out of state.  He was already declawed when I
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> biting?  Can I have a clawed and declawed kitty in same household?  Will they
> ever get along?  Any input is appreciated.

My guess is that this is a kill shelter since you were able to leave the cat
there so quickly. Please get the cat out of the shelter ASAP. She depends on
you, literally for her very life. Once you get her home, you will need to
totally separate the two for awhile, so prepare to set up a bathroom or
spare bedroom with litter box and supplies for your new friend.

I would like to briefly respond to your first two questions, and then I have
a lengthy response (based on my own experience) for your third questions.
Others may want to ignore the third response because I have previously
posted most of the information in previous messages.

Your first question was: Can I stop the biting?

The best way to stop a cat from biting is to really pay attention to its
behavior. If the kitty starts to nip at you, immediately put it down and
walk way. You may want to give a little "yelp,"

which is what kittens do when they start to get too rough with each other
and one wants the other to stop. All the fun for the kitten will stop, right
there - but do not yell, hit, throw water, etc. It is very important to be
consistent. This may take awhile - a week or a month, perhaps - but it will
eventually pass. But do remember to be *gentle* and *consistent.*

Second question: Can I have a clawed and declawed kitty in same household?

Absolutely. Many people live with clawed and declawed cats together. It's
really not an issue. In fact, if you had two clawed cats (as I do), you
would find that it would be very unusual for either to scratch the other cat
with its claws - they may sound aggressive when they play, but it would be
rare for them to actually scratch each other. Once they are properly
introduced and have learned to coexist peacefully, they should get along
without major problems.

Third question (long response): Will they ever get along?

Everything depends on how you introduce them. If you are patient and go very
slowly, there is no reason these two cats can't get along. It's important to
keep the new cat totally separate (in a spare bedroom or bathroom) before
and at the beginning of the introduction process. Since they have already
been brought together too quickly and had issues, it is important that you
wait extra time before trying again. I learned a great deal about how
important it is to go slowly when I adopted Duffy. Holly had been my "only
child" for seven years and was used to being spoiled and pampered. She also
had shown a real dislike for other cats - so much so that we called her the
"black tornado" because she would immediately attack any cat on sight. Then
I saw Duffy's picture on Petfinders. He is blind and his picture just tore
at my heart. He had been at the shelter for several months, and I knew that
he probably would not survive once kitten season arrives and the shelter
becomes overcrowded. So, I decided to adopt Duffy and do whatever I could to
bring the two cats together.

The first thing to be aware of is that it is important to take things very
slow and proceed with caution - do not try to "rush" anything. In my case,
this meant that it took a full 6 weeks from the day I adopted Duffy until
both cats had the full use of the house and were "together" throughout the
day. That may sound like a long time, but it really wasn't - and in
retrospect, it was worth every minute because I now have two cats that get
along well together and enjoy each other's company. That's something I never
thought would happen!!

First, I set up three plug-in Feliway diffusers (one in the room that would
be "Duffy's room" for awhile, one in the hallway outside Duffy's room where
Holly would walk by the door to Duffy's room, and one in the living area
where Holly spends a large part of the day). If you don't have a Feliway
diffuser, it would be money well spent to get a couple. Feliway is used for
behavior modification and can be very useful in reducing stress. I bought my
Feliway from ValleyVet (www.valleyvet.com). They have free shipping, which
saves significantly on the cost. Do not get the one that says "with D.A.P."
because that formulation is for dogs.

Duffy learned his way around his new room very quickly. Holly did a bit of
hissing and growling, but it was pretty mild - none of the "vicious" sounds
she made in the past, and this was really pretty normal for an "only child"
who suddenly has a sibling in her home. I spent a great deal of time with
Duffy, and I alternated nights so that one night I would sleep in my regular
bed where Holly could join me and the next night I would sleep in Duffy's
room. I also left a radio in Duffy's room, tuned to a station with classical
or "soft" (soothing) music when he was left alone. I made sure that Holly
got lots and lots of love and attention through all of this. Every time I
left Duffy's room, I gave Holly an excessive amount of love and attention. I
wanted her to know that she was not going to be displaced in my affections.

After a week, a friend located a damaged unfinished door. He cut a large
square out of the bottom of the door and covered it with wire mesh (the type
of grill that is often mounted on the bottom of screen doors to protect them
from damage - sturdy and smooth, with no rough edges). He temporarily
replaced the bedroom door with the new screened door so that Holly and Duffy
could get up-close without any danger to either of them. He removed the
hardware (hinges and handle) from the permanent door and mounted them on the
temporary door, a process that was later reversed when we replaced the
permanent door. This worked well, but an inexpensive screen door could be
used for this same purpose.

Duffy was eager to get together with Holly, but Holly wasn't at all sure
about the situation. She gradually began to show some interest and would
often rest outside the door; but she did not seem to be at all upset. A
couple of days after the door was installed, I began to leave the door open
for a short time each evening, and gradually increased it to 2-3 hours each
evening. During this period, I kept Holly in a separate room - it was too
early to bring them together in the same room. Duffy was quite adventuresome
and quickly learned his way around the house. This also distributed his
scent, which gave Holly time to become adjusted to the scent before I tried
to introduce them. Next, I placed tuna on two ends of a long platter and
slipped it under the door so the two cats could eat "together." The idea was
to place a plate with "special" food under the door (with food on each side
of the door) so the cats would learn to associate something "good" with
being in close proximity when they ate the treats.

Eventually, I began to give Duffy the run of the house along with Holly, but
only under close supervision. I gradually increased the amount of time the
two were together and soon didn't need to supervise them. However, I did not
leave them together when I left the house. I was careful to give Holly lots
of extra love and attention any time I had been playing with Duffy - I didn'
t want to cause feelings of sibling rivalry.

About five weeks into this process, I had a week of vacation. This was the
ideal time to let them really get to know each other. Throughout the week, I
gave them more and more time together - first all day, then both day and
night. By the time we approached the sixth week, both cats had the full run
of the house at all times, and then I began to leave the house for short
periods of time (first only an hour at a time, then would go back to check
on them). By the end of that week, they were together at all times. This
very slow, gradual transition has really paid off.

Please let me re-emphasize this point: take it very slow, and don't try to
rush things. Whenever you think it's time to move to the next step, you
should probably stop and wait it out for another week. It took about 6 weeks
for us to work through the entire process because I had previously made the
mistake of trying to introduce Holly to some other cats too quickly and
without any preparation. I "thought" I going slow when I tried to introduce
Holly to my sister's cats some time ago (we took about two weeks), but that
was a disaster and led to the "black tornado" references. The difference
this time has been remarkable. Friends who knew how Holly had reacted in the
past really could hardly believe it. They were sure that it was never going
to be possible to place Holly with any other cat, but now I have two cats
that have become friends and voluntarily stay together most of the time.

I have posted a "pictorial history"on a friend's web site showing our
progress, including pictures of the temporary door that helped so much. If
you would like to see it, go to the first link under my signature. The
second link will take you to later pictures in a second album that shows the
progress we have made.

MaryL
(take out the litter to reply)

Photos of Duffy and Holly:      >'o'<
http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly)
http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in")
Artisanwomyn - 10 Jan 2004 19:13 GMT
Thanks for all the great feedback.  I called to check on Ali today and they
said she was doing fine.  They would keep her at least until 1/16.  I will be
going to get her next week unless someone has shown an interest in adopting her
and will give her a good home.  That's my main concern.  I will try separating
them although it won't be easy in my small living quarters.  I will try
anything.  I will check out the link you recommended, Mary.  Thanks again.
MaryL - 10 Jan 2004 20:04 GMT
> Thanks for all the great feedback.  I called to check on Ali today and they
> said she was doing fine.  They would keep her at least until 1/16.  I will be
> going to get her next week unless someone has shown an interest in adopting her
> and will give her a good home.  That's my main concern.  I will try separating
> them although it won't be easy in my small living quarters.  I will try
> anything.  I will check out the link you recommended, Mary.  Thanks again.

Thanks for showing such concern.  But please don't wait too long --
sometimes shelters are not able to keep cats as long as they originally
intended.  And please keep us updated.

MaryL
Artisanwomyn - 10 Jan 2004 22:49 GMT
I called earlier to ask if I could pick up Ali since I told them I changed my
mind.  Gal on phone said cat was registered as stray and so they have to hold
it a week, and then after that applications must be filled out if anyone is
interested in the cat.  I was told to call Monday to speak with the person in
charge to see about getting the cat before a week's time.  I had a feeling they
wouldn't make it easy to get this cat.  I had told them initially that the cat
was dropped off nearby where I live and the people tossed kitty from the car
and then took off.  I called to the kitty to come with me and she was with me
for 5 days.  It was rough with my six year old male cat.  They got into major
growling/fighting matches as well as kitty biting me a few times pretty hard.
I now have regrets...anyone have any suggestions how I can convince them to
give me the kitten back.
MaryL - 11 Jan 2004 04:06 GMT
> I called earlier to ask if I could pick up Ali since I told them I changed my
> mind.  Gal on phone said cat was registered as stray and so they have to hold
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I now have regrets...anyone have any suggestions how I can convince them to
> give me the kitten back.

Why don't you go in person with a specific plan on how you would handle the
situation?  Be specific, and place emphasis on your willingness to take the
time and patience to bring about good results.  Be prepared to explain how
you will overcome the negative reaction when you first had this kitty.  You
tried to move too quickly the first time.  You must also make this a
personal commitment to yourself so that this will not just be "words."  In
addition, point out that you were the person who rescued the cat and talk
about how willing the kitty was to come to you from the very beginning.

Let me reiterate one point:  you must also be clear in your own mind that
you are willing to dedicate the time and patience required for success in
this endeavor.  Do *not* adopt the kitty and then return it to the shelter
at a later date.

MaryL
M.C. Mullen - 11 Jan 2004 06:34 GMT
| I called earlier to ask if I could pick up Ali since I told them I changed my
| mind.  Gal on phone said cat was registered as stray and so they have to hold
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
| I now have regrets...anyone have any suggestions how I can convince them to
| give me the kitten back.

Don't panic. When they want to hold the kitten, is it because it gets
checked by a vet? That would be good.
Or is it because they want money for it? If so accept the service that they
offer for it. Try and talk to the person in
charge, remain calm.
My recent shelter experience is not good. I got a lot of wrong information
like "this cat is not adoptable", but it was. It turned out she didn't like
to see it go; or worse (this time another cat): "This one is already adopted
out". But because I wanted exactly _that one_ I asked someone else, she went
and inquired - and - I could have it! I got wrong information about
vaccinations too, not to talk about the hassle I got into with the vet about
the ear mites.

Carola
Artisanwomyn - 11 Jan 2004 10:08 GMT
Yeah, it sounds like they will not make this easy...they seem to want to be
ugly about this, which means I will have to do likewise if there is a fuss made
about getting the kitty back.  I may have to threaten to get an attorney.  I'm
not sure what an attorney can do but I seem to be heading no where with these
people and will have no other recourse but to sue them.  I probably made the
wrong choice is choosing that facility to take kitty to in the first place, and
now I am seemingly becoming the villain here, when I was the one who rescued
the kitty and took the time to drive her to the shelter, etc.  I have been
patient with these people on the phone, but I'm not sure how long my good
nature and patience will last.
MaryL - 11 Jan 2004 18:14 GMT
> Yeah, it sounds like they will not make this easy...they seem to want to be
> ugly about this, which means I will have to do likewise if there is a fuss made
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> patient with these people on the phone, but I'm not sure how long my good
> nature and patience will last.

In my opinion, you are taking entirely the wrong approach.  I already
responded, but to add a little to what I said earlier -- I believe you
should go to the shelter *in person* (don't depend on a telephone call), ask
to speak to the *manager* (don't try to deal with anyone else unless you get
a very good feeling about that person), and explain in a very calm manner
why you turned the kitty in and what you plan to do to solve the problems
you had.  This kitty is *not property* that belongs to you -- it was a lost
cat that you rescued, but you also voluntarily gave it up in a short period
of time.  Shelter personnel will be understandably wary of turning the kitty
over to you under these circumstances.  It is your responsibility -- if you
want to adopt the cat and give it a forever home -- to show how you will
make accomodations both for the new kitty and for your resident cat.

The approach you described is confrontational.  That should be a very last
resort, not one of your earlier actions.

MaryL
Artisanwomyn - 11 Jan 2004 23:23 GMT
Thanks again for the input Mary.  Yes, tomorrow morning when I call I will ask
to speak to the manager.  I was given two names to ask for and I will calmly
explain that we miss kitty and would like to come for her.  I know their policy
is that they keep strays for one week to see if prior owner picks cat up (which
I know won't happen in this case) and then applications are filled out by
interested parties.  I get the feeling they want me to fill out an application
if I want kitty which to me is ludicrous since I gave them the cat.  I think I
chose this facility first because I felt that they would find a good home for
it, but they said they normally adopt out around 65 percent of their cats.  I
just want to be sure kitty is in a safe and good environment and not
eutheninized (sp?) but if it still doesn't working out for Ali and my resident
cat, then at least I will take it to a place where they find homes for kitties
and not euthenize them.
zuzu22@webtv.net - 12 Jan 2004 00:55 GMT
> Thanks again for the input Mary. Yes,
> tomorrow morning when I call I will ask
> to speak to the manager.

You should call the shelter, find out when the manager will be in, then
go down to the shelter and speak to them face to face. When you do, be
calm and honest about the mistakes you made. This will make a much
better impression than calling and threatening legal action you don't
have a chance of winning.

>I was given two
> names to ask for and I will calmly
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> if I want kitty which to me is ludicrous
> since I gave them the cat.

When you surrendered the cat, you also surrendered any rights as to what
decisions are made where she is concerned. The sooner you accept that
and stop being angry about a situation *you* created, the better off
you'll be. Shelters are naturally vary wary about people that surrender
an animal then change their minds, and understandably so. They don't
want to adopt a cat back to a person who becoms antagonistic or whose
pattern of behavior causes them to suspect that they may very will
change their minds *again.* They would rather be safe than sorry and
their policies are in place for a reason.

>I think I
> chose this facility first because I felt
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> they find homes for kitties and not
> euthenize them.

If you are really serious about making this work and committed to taking
as much time as is needed to do so, then your best bet is to talk in
person with the shelter manager. Tell them that when you rescued the
cat, you didn't realize that there is a *right* way to do a cat
introduction and now understand why you were having problems. Tell them
you are absolutely committed to doing a slow and careful introduction
and that you have posted to some cat newsgroups and received excellent
advice. Bring a printout of the instructions Mary gave you and show it
to them so they understand that you are indeed serious and honest about
what you are saying. Ask for and gladly fill out an application while
you are there so it is already there when the hold period is up. Also
give them a list of several references (including your vet) that they
can check, and do it with a ready willingness and a smile. Being angry
with them will get you nowhere, but being pleasant, courteous. and
showing them you are completely committed to doing what is right for
this kitty will be the best way for you to get her back.

Megan


                                   
Signature


"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

Artisanwomyn - 12 Jan 2004 01:22 GMT
Thanks, Megan.   I will heed yours and Mary's advice as it seems as though
honey will come out the winner in this situation rather than vinegar. :)
zuzu22@webtv.net - 12 Jan 2004 07:18 GMT
>Thanks, Megan.  

You're welcome.

>I will heed yours and Mary's advice as it >seems as though honey will
come out >the winner in this situation rather than >vinegar. :)

And if you are able to bring this kitty back home, you could name her
"Honey." :-)

Megan

                                   
Signature


"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

Sherry - 12 Jan 2004 02:28 GMT
> I get the feeling they want me to fill out an application
>if I want kitty which to me is ludicrous since I gave them the cat.

No, it is not ludicrous at all. They have to determine whether you are suitable
to adopt the cat. Anybody can bring a cat in. Homing an animal is a
responsibility they don't take lightly, nor should they! They also will need
your information for their records, for future callbacks or home checks.

Sherry
Sherry - 12 Jan 2004 02:24 GMT
>Yeah, it sounds like they will not make this easy...they seem to want to be
>ugly about this, which means I will have to do likewise if there is a fuss
>made
>about getting the kitty back.  I may have to threaten to get an attorney.
>I'm
>not sure what an attorney can do

You probably don't have any legal rights to the cat; when you relinquished it
you probably signed away all rights of ownership. You just have to convince
them that your intentions are to do whatever it takes to integrate the cat into
your household. . Also, state law in many areas prohibits shelters from
adopting out whole animals, so be prepared to pay an adoption fee that includes
neutering, or put up a neuter deposit.

sherry

but I seem to be heading no where with these
>people and will have no other recourse but to sue them.  I probably made the
>wrong choice is choosing that facility to take kitty to in the first place,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>patient with these people on the phone, but I'm not sure how long my good
>nature and patience will last.
 
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