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Cat Forum / General Topics / March 2005Help wanted selecting a pet cat breed
Hello everyone, I am not really sure if this is the best newsgroup to post this question since this is the first time I have come here. I am cross-posting this to alt.cats and to rec.pets.cats as a start. Please let me know if there are any others that you think would be helpful, or more appropriate... I am looking for a new pet kitten. I am a single male who lives alone (no other pets or children), and am looking for the companionship of an affectionate cat. I am looking for an indoor cat, preferably a purebreed (if only so that I can be reasonably assured of its likely behavioral characteristics and hardiness), and am trying to determine which breed would be best for my personality and lifestyle. Here are the factors that I consider the most important in my search, in roughly descending order of importance: 1) Docility: I want a cat that will not mind being petted at any time and for which I don't have to worry about it scratching or biting me if (s)he is not in the mood. I also don't want to be scratched when I have to pick the cat up to put it into a carrier to take it to the vet. I do NOT intend to have my cat declawed. 2) Affectionateness: I want a cat that will be very affectionate toward its owner, but does not mind being left alone and does not *need* constant affection throughout the day. I don't mind being followed from room to room, but also don't want to be tripping over it everywhere I walk and having it meow anytime it is not being petted. 3) Independence: I do not tend to be away from home for long periods of time, but do want a cat that I can leave alone for several hours, or overnight (with adequate food and water of course) without it becoming too worrisome about being by itself. 4) Activity level: Fairly low. Since this will be an exclusively indoor cat, I want one that will not need high levels of exercise to prevent becoming obese, and that is not likely to bounce around on furniture knocking things over. 5) Healthiness/Hardiness: I definitely want a cat that is not especially prone to any disease, and which tends to have hardy bloodlines. 6) Need for grooming: Low. I don't have a strong preference for a shorthaired vs. a longhaired breed, but am somewhat more inclined toward a shorthaired breed because I tend to think of them as less inclined to shed all over the furniture (I know this is not a hard rule). I do not mind occasional (perhaps weekly) combings or brushings, or twice-yearly shedding bouts, but do not want to be constantly cleaning fur from my furniture and clothes. 5) Playfulness: No strong preference. I would like to be able to play with my cat with cat toys, but don't want a cat that requires constant playtime. 6) Intelligence: I am interested in a cat that can learn its own name, will come when called, and can be easily taught to stop mischievous activities. 7) Appearance: I want a cat breed that is not especially exotic looking... I prefer a tailed breed with an average body shape (not too squat or too bony), with typical erect ears. I have a very strong inclination toward blue-haired cats, but would consider other colors/patterns. 8) Vocality: I don't have much of a preference here. I would definitely prefer a cat that does not constantly meow loudly, but would not mind a cat that occasionally vocalizes to let me know where it is or that it needs something important (like to be released from a room that it is inadvertently locked inside). So, on the quiet side would be my preference. 9) Availability: I live in the U.S. I don't want to have to be on a waiting list for too many months for a rare breed. Currently two top breeds on my list of considerations are the Chartreux and the British Shorthair. I am not sure about their availability in the U.S. though (I have spoken to two breeders who said that their Chartreux have long waiting lists), and would welcome any other suggestions. Thanks very much. Lothar > Hello everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > > Lothar Get a sloth. It would be just up your ally. Stone | Hello everyone, | [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] | | I am looking for a new pet kitten. What you are looking for is nearly impossible: 1) You want to own a cat, but in truth it works the other way round. 2) You are looking for a dream cat, I would take such a cat too, instantly. But after all the cats I have had I have come to the conclusion that one cat has this quality, and another that one. You'll hardly find a cat with all this combined. 3) In your case: Don't get a kitten!! There you don't know what you get. Get a cat about 1 year old which has already formed a personality.. 4) Yesterday I looked at this link someone posted here. Have a look: http://www.allforanimals.com/cruel1.htm --> home page --> adoptable pets, some really gorgeous ones!! Good luck Carola >What you are looking for is nearly impossible: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >3) In your case: Don't get a kitten!! There you don't know what you get. Get >a cat about 1 year old which has already formed a personality.. I seem to have to keep repeating this in the various newsgroups where I posted this thread, possibly because the intent of my original post didn't come through... I am *not* looking for the perfect cat, or a "dream" cat. I simply have certain characteristics in mind that I would *like* to have, and don't see any problem with trying to select a breed that fits my ideals somewhat closely. I will definitely be getting a kitten, so the best I can hope for is to get one from a breed that tends to have certain characteristics that I like. If it turns out to have a different personality than I was expecting, that is fine--I will have bonded with the animal so closely by the time its personality is well-manifest that I won't care. Anyway, thanks very much for the ideas. Hey Lothar, You certainly do know what you want, I think the most important thing to say up front though is that even getting a certain breed won't guarantee anything, cats are highly individual animals no matter what breed they are, so everything I'm going to say is generalities. First thing; indoor cats, females adapt better as they naturally have less desire to wander, a neutered female adapts best of all and often lives longer statistically. Docility; some breeds are more spicy but generally speaking docility comes down to your relationship with your cat, and how it has been brought up, buy from a breeder who has socialised the kittens well, and pick the confident kitten rather than the shy scared one, only a cat with serious behavioural issues will strike out just because you stroked it, they tend to strike out when in pain or when cornered and very scared; unfortunately nearly all cats learn that their carrier means the vet and most probably pain and discomfort, they will often scratch by mistake just trying to get out; it's hard not to sometimes when you have razors on every hand (think Edward Scissorhands!). Don't ever declaw! There are plenty of other options, make sure you get a good scratching post or scratching pad though! Affection; pick the confident outgoing kitten and be a good companion to it and this should take care of itself Independence; I would say that most cats can happily go without their owners for a day, it's in their nature; dogs can also go for longer periods than most people credit them with if they're brought up to be used to it; if you're always at home for months, then suddenly away for a whole day, it might unnerve your cat as it's a change in the daily timetable, all species of cat (except lions of course) naturally spend their lives alone. Most cats have an occasional habit of getting in the way, especially if you have your PC on a desk with room for the cat as well! Activity; females over males is the best advice here, unlike dogs, all cats have developed to do the same job and as such there's little pattern to which are more active, Ragdolls are famed as the most chilled cat in the universe but you should see my friend's! More manic than my old moggy tom! All cats bounce around a bit, it's worth buying an activity centre, these range from quite simple scratching post and hidey hole arrangements for about ?30 up to 5 ft tall trees for around ?100 (check out your local pet store), they are a very good investment for an indoor cat, providing them with somewhere to exercise, play, and rest, that should be far more attractive than any furniture. Health; mixed breeds tend to have better health expectations, just as with dogs "inbreeding" in pedigree breeds has passed on some health risks or patterns, because cats have been selectively bred for a much shorter time though, you don't really see the same problems that dogs face, except for some of the more controversial breed features; folded ears, pug faces, hairless, etc. Grooming; definitely shorthair, all longhairs need help to maintain their coat and not brushing them regularly is a failing as an owner, shorthairs can maintain themselves excellently (especially an indoors cat), all cats appreciate a brush, it takes them a while to get used to it but persevere when they are a kitten and it will help create a strong bond between you. Playfulness; all kittens are mega playful, they sleep they play they sleep they play, expect to have time demanded for the first 6 months and make sure if you leave the cat alone that it has things around to play with; balls etc. As cats age they play less, and make very few demands for play, indoor cats can get bored though so always make the effort! Intelligence; any cat that can't do those things probably isn't a cat, if this is your first cat don't expect to be able to train it like a dog, they're more complex so sometimes you might get frustrated trying to communicate right and wrong, but generally adopting a firm voice and a finger wag in the face at kitten age will teach them all they need to know to behave. Cats are remarkably intelligent animals, which is double edged; my cat always responds to her name, sometimes she comes running, typically she twitches an ear and decides from the tone of my voice whether I'm calling her for food or whether it's something less intriguing that she won't bother moving for, for emergencies, it's good to find something that will always bring them running (for me the magic word is "tuna!"). Appearance; some people say that tabby patterned cats have the best temperament (strangely, they're usually the best hunters as well, so should you ever have a mouse problem...), other than that it's really just what catches your eye. Vocality; I'd say most Oriental breeds are very vocal! Other than that vocalisation is nearly always to get your attention, ignore your cat and you will encourage it to get more vocal, generally though, this is pretty random, and also affected by how you bring the kitten up, my cat is vocal but tends to "chirrup" rathern than caterwaul, probably because we always encouraged the sound which is generally only used by kittens/mums with kittens, it's very sweet and it's also easier to notice variations in tone demanding slightly different things. Availability; I'm in the UK so can't really help you on that one. One other thing; if you plan to keep an indoor cat, do try and find it an outdoor life; my cat learnt to go outside wearing a cat harness on one of those extendable dog leads for chihuahuas, this way she gets to go out every day and greatly enjoys her trips, another alternative is to build a cat run in the garden from chicken wire, with some wooden platforms at different heights and some shady places in the summer. All cats need access to grass, you can buy little cat grass kits for indoors, or just walk them on the lawn. From my limited experience of breeds I think the British Shorthair is a pretty good choice, good examples are absolutely stunning and they look great as a blue as well; they're very easily available here and I would assume the same for the US, definitely go for a female (they also tend to form stronger bonds with a male owner; daddy and daughter style), seriously consider having her neutered. I'd strongly advise you to buy a couple of recent books on cats just to get a better idea of how they work and think, I strongly recommend Desmond Morris' "Cat Watching" which is well written, illuminating, beautifully illustrated in photos, to the point, and easy to refer back to, you should be able to find it on Amazon. And please do try your local shelters first, our local shelter had two stunning British shorthairs in recently (blue and cream tortiseshells! Absolutely beautiful!), and one of the other cats just had kittens so you might find just the cat you want who also needs you the most. Good luck Steve > Hello everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > > Lothar >Hey Lothar, > [quoted text clipped - 119 lines] > >Steve Hi Steve, Your response was *very* helpful--thanks so much for taking the time to answer me in such detail! Just a couple of comments on some things you said... Firstly, I am not a stranger to owning cats. I grew up with them and I often sit for friends' cats, so I am well aware of the differences in personalities even within a breed. Still, I am inclined to pick a breed that at least *tends* to have certain behavioral characteristics, if for no other reason than I will be somewhat more likely to get one that suits my personality and lifestyle. As for intelligence, one of the smartest animals I ever owned was a mixed-breed cat who I was able to teach all the standard dog tricks: sit, lie down, sit up, shake hands, speak, etc. Still, it is a fact that some breeds tend to be (on average) more intelligent or more trainable than others. Regarding males vs. females... in Chartreux cats, I have read that it is definitely the males that make better pets. I spoke to a breeder who also told me that the males would be more affectionate and better suited to my personality. I have only ever owned male cats, so I don't really know how females compare. I'll take your word for it that females are more adaptable Your advice about picking an outgoing, confident kitten is very helpful, and I will definitely keep that in mind. Thanks for all the rest of your advice. I will definitely look into that book you recommended. Lothar Get a mail-order wife from China. >Hello everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >the factors that I consider the most important in my search, in >roughly descending order of importance: <snip> I recommend two spayed female mixed breed adults, preferably two that grew up together. And preferably from a shleter or from someone who has to give up their cats due to changes in their circumstances (moving, cats not allowed at the new place is a common case). Mogies tend to have fewer health issues and the only way you can tell how a kitten will turn out is to wait for it to grow up - almost all kittens are hyper active but adults vary dramatically. Of the bignum cats at my place, three of the four females and two of the males can usually be found lolling around or underfoot - one of the females spends most of her time on extended hunting trips. The most affectionate (and one of the msot beautiful) and most easily handled of all of them is the largest male - he is also the most dangerous to handle. The other most beautiful one is also a male, a fairly small one - he's also second most affectionate and one of the safest to handle ... except for catching to take to the vet. Two cats are better than one, especially if they are indoor cats: not only do they entertain each other when you aren't there, there is a better chance that at leat one of them is in the mood to be petted. One thing you must do is get over any idea you have that you are going to own a cat - cats own people; people don't own cats (just ask any cat). Just figure on getting scratched unless you keep all the claws trimmed and filed. That's part of having cats. T.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu) SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D." somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected. | Two cats are better than one, especially if they are indoor cats: not | only do they entertain each other when you aren't there, there is a | better chance that at leat one of them is in the mood to be petted. And they are double fun to watch! Entertainment is guaranteed too, and they are happy enough when left alone for a limited period of time. | One thing you must do is get over any idea you have that you are going | to own a cat - cats own people; people don't own cats (just ask any | cat). | | Just figure on getting scratched unless you keep all the claws trimmed | and filed. That's part of having cats. Not to forget to mention getting a cat tree. Carola >I recommend two spayed female mixed breed adults, preferably two that >grew up together. And preferably from a shleter or from someone who [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >T.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu) Thanks very much, Ted. I can completely understand why so many people in this newsgroup are advocates of adopting a cat from a shelter, but it is simply not what I am interested in. I want a breed that tends to have certain established genetic characteristics (both physical and behavioral). I will also definitely not be getting more than one cat. I've had solo cats in the house before and they always seem to do just fine, but cost is a big consideration for me, between veterinary care and the cost of purchasing. I could handle the expenses of one cat, but not two, and also don't want to have multiple cats constantly underfoot and shedding. If there are certain breeds that tend to do better solo, then perhaps that is something that I need further advice about. I appreciate your advice--you did give me a couple of things to think about! :-) Lothar <snip>> >Thanks very much, Ted. I can completely understand why so many people >in this newsgroup are advocates of adopting a cat from a shelter, but >it is simply not what I am interested in. I want a breed that tends >to have certain established genetic characteristics (both physical and >behavioral). Breed and behavior are only very loosly coupled. Adult personality cannot be determined for a kitten. >I will also definitely not be getting more than one cat. I've had >solo cats in the house before and they always seem to do just fine, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >better solo, then perhaps that is something that I need further advice >about. Well, if you compare the costs of a couple of spayed mogie adults with the costs of a purebred kitten, that piece of paper (which is the only thing that really distinguishes them, other than complete ignorance of what the kittens will grow up to be) seems very expensive. I might mention my Fleagor - he could easily be mistaken or a Main Coon Cat (except that the has the color of a Russian Blue), but he's just a stray found on somebody's doorstep. Ozy is a blue-eyed red tabby color point, and one of the most beautiful and best behaved cats I have ever seen - he was born in a barn. T.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu) SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D." somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected. >Well, if you compare the costs of a couple of spayed mogie adults with >the costs of a purebred kitten, that piece of paper (which is the only >thing that really distinguishes them, other than complete ignorance of >what the kittens will grow up to be) seems very expensive. The initial cost of the cats is the *least* of the expenses that I am concerned about (though still an important one). I intend to keep my cat very well maintained by a vet, and will spare no expense at surgically correcting any fixable problems that may arise, or buying whatever expensive drugs might be required to control any medical conditions. Add up all the veterinary expenses that a typical cat will incur over its lifetime, and then double it--that's what I would be more concerned about. I have a friend who literally went completely broke trying to fix her cat's kidney problems--she barely had enough money left to feed herself. Anybody who says that vet expenses are insignificant is somebody who has a lot more money than I do. Having had solo cats before (and knowing plenty of other people who do), I am simply not convinced that it is necessary to have two or more of them in the house for it to be happy. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of getting an additional one sometime down the road, but for now I am definitely only going to just be getting one. Even if for some reason I decided against a purebreed, I would still definitely only want one for now. As for a piece of paper being the *only* thing that distinguishes a purebreed from a mixed breed, you're going to have a hard time convincing me of that. :-) Anyway, I am going to be buying a solo purebreed, so any help that people can give me for selecting one suitable for me would still be most appreciated. Thanks again for your thoughts! Lothar >>Well, if you compare the costs of a couple of spayed mogie adults with >>the costs of a purebred kitten, that piece of paper (which is the only [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >expenses are insignificant is somebody who has a lot more money than I >do. Since mogies have fewer genetic related problems, they tend to be healthier. Another argument in favor of adults is that many future problems can be avoided by having the cat carefully examined before adoption. Apparently healthy kittens don't necessarily grow into healthy adults. Only one of my cats has an ongoing problem (flea allergy), and moving to the country fixed that (the tick problem caused me to switch to Frontline for flea and tick control). The only serious medical situation in the last four years have been a ringworm epidemic and infected bite wounds (most of them on me). >Having had solo cats before (and knowing plenty of other people who >do), I am simply not convinced that it is necessary to have two or [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >for some reason I decided against a purebreed, I would still >definitely only want one for now. Solo cats can be happy enough, but multiple cats are more fun for each other and for their human. >As for a piece of paper being the *only* thing that distinguishes a >purebreed from a mixed breed, you're going to have a hard time >convincing me of that. :-) Keeping in mind that many 'purebred' kittens are actually of low quality from kitten mill breeders, what is the difference between a kitten with papers and an adult known to be of the same breed from a shelter, but without the papers? Then compare the purebred with a healthier cat that looks the same, behaves better, and is known to be a mogie. >Anyway, I am going to be buying a solo purebreed, so any help that >people can give me for selecting one suitable for me would still be >most appreciated. The best breed is still mogie.  SignatureT.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu) | Anyway, I am going to be buying a solo purebreed, so any help that | people can give me for selecting one suitable for me would still be [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | | Lothar OK, I'm not so much into purebreds, but I'll make a start, and others can continue. Siamese tend to be vocal and very independent, but attached to one person. They might be happy as only cats but don't want to be left alone too much. Persians need grooming and do shed, but they are very laid back. One cat I like a lot is the Turkish Angora. And if you don't mind the ears, then Scottish Fold seems to be a great cat too. That was just a start, hope others will continue. And, it *is* possible to have one cat only, some cats are happy this way, but the majority do prefer company, especially if they live indoors only. My in/outdoor cats hold regular meetings outside, or better sit-and-stare-at-each-other-for-hours-times. But the younger ones play and chase each other. They love company, and all the dozen or more cats get on pretty well. Carola >OK, I'm not so much into purebreds, but I'll make a start, and others can >continue. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Carola Thanks, Carola, that was helpful! :-) Lothar >>OK, I'm not so much into purebreds, but I'll make a start, and others can >>continue. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Lothar My two cents. Do not get a Bengal or a Burmese. They are great but can be very high maintenance. Don't go too far looking for exotic. Rushed breeding programs don't weed out the less attractive traits. They are too focused on looks. You want a breed that has been around a while. There are two distinct types of Siamese out there. (And a whole world of colors and points) The one I prefer is heavier bodied and has a rounder head. These are more laid back than their thinner brothers but make sure you see their parents. Not only does that reassure you of how will socialized they are likely to be but it will give you an idea of the size you can expect. There is one breeder near us that is raising 20 lb blue points. Too big for my taste. We have one of her Chocolate Points. He's 12 lbs and a real sweetheart..Talkative affectionate and not too destructive. The show type of Siamese has evolved into a very thin cat with a triangular face. My Rosie was one of those and she was a real sweetheart too. Almost too affectionate. But she did have some genetic problems such as a plugged tear duct because her face was just too small. And she was from very classy show stock. They are just more frail than the appleheads. I can never keep straight which Siamese is the Classic and which is the Traditional. Just be aware both are available. Jo \ >> Lothar > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >Jo Thanks for the info, Jo! Siamese cats are indeed beautiful, but they're not on the list of breeds that I am currently considering. I was also never considering a Bengal or Burmese, but thanks for the warning about them. Lothar > \ >>> Lothar [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > was also never considering a Bengal or Burmese, but thanks for the > warning about them. Aaaaaaarrrgh! The Burmese is, in my experience, simply THE BEST CAT OUT THERE. Just mho. > Lothar Signaturenimue "If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF." Joss Whedon "There are two types of women -- those who like chocolate and complete bitches." Dawn French > Aaaaaaarrrgh! The Burmese is, in my experience, simply THE BEST CAT OUT > THERE. Just mho. And a lot of folks would agree with you. Just they have a reputation for being quite a bit of a handful. I wouldn't recommend leaving the ones I've known alone in the house for eight hours much less twenty four. Jo > > Aaaaaaarrrgh! The Burmese is, in my experience, simply THE BEST CAT OUT > > THERE. Just mho. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Jo We used to leave our cat alone for a week or so and nothing ever happened. Now, I know everyone is going to jump on me (or my parents) for that, but that is what we used to do when we went on vacation. We had a big house; it was certainly more comfortable there for the cat than a kennel was, and she was very able to take care of herself. We left out plenty of food and water. There was never any problem. Burmese cats are wonderful. I just got back from a vacation and my dad and stepmother checked in on my mogige mutt cats every day. This was fine for my boy cat, who got some petting, but the girl cat (a.k.a bitch cat) refused to even come out and see them, so she would have been just as fine alone. Signaturenimue "If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF." Joss Whedon "There are two types of women -- those who like chocolate and complete bitches." Dawn French > Persians need grooming and do shed, but they are very laid back. I know somebody from Iran who likes Persian cats. >> Well, if you compare the costs of a couple of spayed mogie adults >> with the costs of a purebred kitten, that piece of paper (which is [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > do), I am simply not convinced that it is necessary to have two or > more of them in the house for it to be happy. It's not. I think many cats prefer being the ONLY cat. I know my little bitch cat would like to be the only cat, but my boy cat is so sweet he wouldn't want to be alone -- even if he does have to share his space with bitch cat. Bitch cat just saved us from an enormous (and I mean ENORMOUS) cockroach tonight, so I love her in spite of her exceptionally bitchy ways. >I wouldn't rule out the > possibility of getting an additional one sometime down the road, but [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Thanks again for your thoughts! Burmese, my friend. Burmese. The Burmese who took care of me while I was growing up was the most intelligent cat I have ever known. She was so kind and loving and intelligent -- affectionate, playful, devoted but independent as well. She was, well, a wise cat, very wise. My mother always felt that this cat was the reincarnation of her beloved great-aunt, come back to look after her (my mom's) children just as she helped look after my mom. I know that sounds silly, but that is how wonderful this cat was. I think a Burmese might be right for you. Good luck and I love your name. > Lothar Signaturenimue "If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF." Joss Whedon "There are two types of women -- those who like chocolate and complete bitches." Dawn French Thanks, Nimue! Lothar > I am looking for a new pet kitten. I would suggest going to your local animal shelter, look at the cats they have for adoption and let the right cat find you. As far as breeds go, every cat has a unique personality. I wouldn't worry about purebred cats. As I said every cat is unique. >I wouldn't worry about purebred cats. As I said every cat >is unique. It's not a "worry." It's just my personal preference, and I don't really see a problem with wanting a purebreed. I would rather not have a cat at all, than to be unable to get a breed that appeals to me. While I know fully well that every cat is unique, certain breeds *tend* (on average) to have certain characteristics that appeal to me. The same thing goes for dogs--I see nothing wrong with a person having his heart set on a golden retriever, for example, instead of a mutt, because he wants a dog that is likely (though not certain) to be easygoing and friendly as an adult. Thanks for the thoughts though! :-) Lothar Hi Lothar, I'm going to cut and paste and add some thoughts, then sum up at the end... I'll try to trim appropriately though ;-) First off it sounds like you've put a LOT of thought into this, good for you! I wish everyone put that thought into a new pet. > 1) Docility: I want a cat that will not mind being petted at any time > and for which I don't have to worry about it scratching or biting me > if (s)he is not in the mood. I think any cat you raise from a kitten will behave with you around. Ferals and abused cats are the ones you have to watch. > 2) Affectionateness: > 3) Independence: The advise to get a confident cat really shines here. A confident cat will come to you when it's happy and wants attention, but will be comfortable spending time alone without having a meltdown. It is possible to train a terrified cat to be confident (I've done it) simply by making life very black and white and keeping rules consistant, cats become comfortable when they know their limits and what is allowed and what's not allowed. So while you have it easy starting with a confident cat, any kitten you raise can be brought up to be a "good citizen". > 4) Activity level: Scheduled feedings are your friend in preventing obesity. Bored cats eat. This can easily be managed with those scheduled feeders for when you're on vacation. > 5) Healthiness/Hardiness: Do your research and find a reputable breeder in your chosen breed. It might involve a wait and more $$$ up front, but you'll save a lot in the long run. Good rule of thumb is the breeder should be asking you as many questions as you are asking them. > 6) Need for grooming: British Blue are a nice choice here. Though as a comparison, I have a Maine coon (with 8 inch guard hair) that is the cleanest cat here (and actually seems to fit your bill really well). Maine coons seem to be a long haired mellow breed that doesnt' require excessive grooming, in fact I groom mine maybe once a month and give his fluffy butt a quick trim if he gets sick. If you'd like a long haired, maine coons seem to be the best fit. If you like shorthair, British short hairs or british blues are nice all around cats > 5) Playfulness: > 6) Intelligence: I think all cats are capable of learning tricks, it's more important to have a cat that wants to be around you and "work" with you to learn them. This has more to do with how you raise a cat and howmuch time you put into it than any particular breed IME. I have trained all my cats to come, sit, paw, and fetch, now we're working on down. Ones a maine coon, ones a siamese x from the pound,and ones a barn cat mutt. It sounds like you could take any kitten and bring it up this way just because of the time you'll put into it. > 7) Appearance: I want a cat breed that is not especially exotic > looking... I prefer a tailed breed with an average body shape (not too > squat or too bony), with typical erect ears. I have a very strong > inclination toward blue-haired cats, but would consider other > colors/patterns. have you seen the CFA site on breeds? http://www.cfa.org/breeds.html That's a nice place to browse through and get summaries on all the different breeds. How about the American Short hair http://www.cfa.org/breeds/profiles/american-sh.html British shorthair http://www.cfa.org/breeds/profiles/british.html or Russian Blue http://www.cfa.org/breeds/profiles/russian.html > 9) Availability: I live in the U.S. I don't want to have to be on a > waiting list for too many months for a rare breed. This one can be tough, but we're coming spring and normally litters are planned around now. When you find a cattery you really like, in the breed you choose, if they dont have a kitten availble, ask them for recomendations of reputable breeders who might have kittens. My current "barn mutt" cat is a long haired blue and white, beautiful! I hope some of that helped, I think if I were you, I would concentrate on a breed that you like the *look* of, and realize most attitude is determined by how you raise it. As to the "go to a shelter" gang, adopting from a shelter is nice if you want a cat. If you have very specific requirements of your cat, it's best to pick a breed. My last 6 cats were mutts, my next will be a purebred mainecoone. Same with my dogs,all so far have been shelter dogs, my next will be a purebred BC. When you find the breed you want and have very specific requirements for your pet, it's a much safer bet buying from a reputable breeder. Pets are with you for life, if a purebred makes you happy, go for it. Charlotte Hi Charlotte, Thanks so much for your comments--you were *very* helpful! Let me address a few of your comments one at a time... >I'm going to cut and paste and add some thoughts, then sum up at the >end... I'll try to trim appropriately though ;-) First off it sounds >like you've put a LOT of thought into this, good for you! I wish >everyone put that thought into a new pet. I'm so gratified to hear somebody say that. It seems that most people are slamming me for having such specific preferences and for having done so much research. Thank you :-) >Scheduled feedings are your friend in preventing obesity. Bored cats >eat. This can easily be managed with those scheduled feeders for when >you're on vacation. Thanks, that's very useful advice. >Do your research and find a reputable breeder in your chosen breed. It >might involve a wait and more $$$ up front, but you'll save a lot in the >long run. Good rule of thumb is the breeder should be asking you as >many questions as you are asking them. Yeah, I'm already beginning to get a sense for that. One breeder asked me a whole series of specific questions trying to find out if I would be an acceptable home for one of their cats. That impressed me. Another breeder I spoke to didn't ask me a single question except for whether I wanted a male or a female. I was less impressed with that, but will still give them the benefit of the doubt until I see their operation and talk to them more. >> 6) Need for grooming: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >be the best fit. If you like shorthair, British short hairs or british >blues are nice all around cats Thanks--you're the second person today who's recommended a Main Coon for me! From what I have read, their grooming requirements are much higher than a British shorthair or a Chartreux. I know that all cats will shed, but I am really looking for a breed (presumably shorthairs will mainly fit the bill here) that won't leave all my furniture and clothes constantly covered with *excessive* hair at all times of the year. >have you seen the CFA site on breeds? >http://www.cfa.org/breeds.html [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >or Russian Blue >http://www.cfa.org/breeds/profiles/russian.html Yes, I had already researched all the pages you just mentioned (among many others), but I appreciate you taking the time to post them for me. The British Shorthair and Russian Blue are both high on my list, but I don't know anything about their availability here. The American Shorthair was one that I considered briefly but didn't spend much time thinking about, mainly because I was more interested in a blue-haired cat. I suspect they can come in blue too though (I'm not sure how commonly), so perhaps I'll look into them more carefully. They do seem to have a lot of the other characteristics that I am looking for. >we're coming spring and normally litters are >planned around now. When you find a cattery you really like, in the >breed you choose, if they dont have a kitten availble, ask them for >recomendations of reputable breeders who might have kittens. Thanks, I'll be sure to do that. >I hope some of that helped, I think if I were you, I would concentrate >on a breed that you like the *look* of, and realize most attitude is >determined by how you raise it. That sounds like good advice. I do know though that a lot of personality, intelligence, etc is genetic (not just in cats but in all animals), and certain breeds are more *likely* to have certain traits than others. But I also do know that a lot of it is random or environmental. A combination of known genetics and good rearing is really what I am really looking for. >As to the "go to a shelter" gang, adopting from a shelter is nice if you > want a cat. If you have very specific requirements of your cat, it's >best to pick a breed. THANK YOU for saying that. I can completely understand the standpoint of a lot of cat owners with wanting people to get cats from shelters. I really do. But I do definitely want a purebreed, and it's nice to hear that somebody out there understands my reasons. >Pets are with you for life, if a >purebred makes you happy, go for it. My thoughts exactly! This is a pet that will be with me for 15 or 20 years (hopefully), and I simply want to get as close to possible to what I am looking for. Lothar You could also look into Breed Rescue groups. I belong to a Maine Coon Rescue, We rescue MC and MCMixes. All ages and colors, we even get some purebreeds. Maine Coons are a large cat 20 to 25 lbs. They have longer silky coats, but don't require alot of brushing. Maybe once a week. This breed has been called the dogs of the cat world. There great with just about anything but there not clingy. But away, Most breeds have their own Rescue Groups posted on the webs. Just a thought. Our rescued cats are tested, shots,wormed and fixed before adopted out. Big plus. DeborahY > Hi Lothar, > [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] > > Charlotte >You could also look into Breed Rescue groups. I belong to a Maine Coon >Rescue, We rescue MC and MCMixes. All ages and colors, we even get some [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Groups posted on the webs. Just a thought. Our rescued cats are tested, >shots,wormed and fixed before adopted out. Big plus. DeborahY Thanks, Deborah, I may look into that. In my various web searches for the breeds that currently interest me the most, I have not seen any notations of any rescue groups, but that does not necessarily mean they don't exist. I do definitely want to get a kitten though, and I would imagine that most of the cats in these rescue groups are adults, right? I seem to be getting a lot of recommendations for Maine Coon cats. I'm not sure if it's because people feel that it would be a good breed for my stated individual preferences, or if it's simply because they are a popular breed. They didn't especially appeal to me when I was researching breeds, but perhaps I will give them further thought. Lothar <snips> > I seem to be getting a lot of recommendations for Maine Coon cats. > I'm not sure if it's because people feel that it would be a good breed > for my stated individual preferences, or if it's simply because they > are a popular breed. They didn't especially appeal to me when I was > researching breeds, but perhaps I will give them further thought. Most common first impression: "that's a big friggin cat". very pretty. though "indoors" has never struck me as a MC attribute. Or solitary. pat We had a "mutt" that lasted for 17 years. She was a wonderful cat but had not had the benefit of being brought up properly. After she passed away, we decided to get a breed so that we would have some idea of looks and temprament. First we eliminated cats with known genetic problems or short lives. We eliminated cats that were very athletic (we are both over 60). We eliminated cats that were overbred to a point that they would be incapable of getting their own food if they needed to. It is not that we ever expected our new cats to do such a thing. But we wanted them to be cats. Consider that many Persians have breathing problems, making it unlikely they could catch a mouse, and mouths so small that they actually can't eat standard dry cat food. We considered Maine Coons, Norwegian Forest Cats, and Birmans. As it happened, there was a Birman breeder a mile away, and she was also the teacher our daughter had had in first grade. We got a mother and male kitten from her. (Blue point). They are wonderful cats. Great character, medium size and build. Friendly, but able to deal with being alone during the day, altho they do protest when one of us leaves. I strongly recommend the Mother/Kitten combo if possible. They get along fine, altho he is now bigger and heavier then she is. They keep each other company when we are gone. We moved twice within a month. First to a hotel suite for a couple of weeks and then to our new home. There are numerous articles going on for pages about how to move with your cats. With these cats there was no problem. They were stressed for the first 2-3 hours at the new home and then setled in as if they had always been here. Good luck Ira Solomon >You could also look into Breed Rescue groups. I belong to a Maine Coon >Rescue, We rescue MC and MCMixes. All ages and colors, we even get some [quoted text clipped - 104 lines] >> >> Charlotte > You could also look into Breed Rescue groups. I belong to a Maine Coon > Rescue, We rescue MC and MCMixes. All ages and colors, we even get some [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > are tested, shots,wormed and fixed before adopted out. Big plus. > DeborahY I have a female Maine Coon that is a rescue that is very much like you say in so far as she is like a dog. You can call her and she will get up and come to you just like a dog. But she is very spoiled and throws temper tantrums if I am not paying attention to her when she demands it. Also she loves to be brushed and will go get her brush and will bring you her brush and drop it at your feet so you get the idea she demands to be brushed. Lee, Yes some can be demanding, like any other breed, But most MC I've foster love being suggled they are fine by thereself.. They are a large cat, and sometime that puts people off. But I love them, I love their personily. I also have Himalayans their get cats too. Mine are so active and great around kids,4 and 2 yrs. If I had to pick a certain breed it would be hard. They are are great.. I don't care for the Peke-face Persains. Something wrong there. But yher3es problems with every breed. JUST be careful ........... Find one you love! Just my thoughts DeborahY >> You could also look into Breed Rescue groups. I belong to a Maine Coon >> Rescue, We rescue MC and MCMixes. All ages and colors, we even get [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > her brush and drop it at your feet so you get the idea she demands to be > brushed. I know it will vary widely but would you have an idea what the Maine Coon costs? I would be looking for a pet kitten. I don't want to start calling breeders until I learn some more about these cats, I have been thinking about a Bengal mostly for some of the same traits I have been reading the Coon has. Brad >I know it will vary widely but would you have an idea what the Maine >Coon costs? I would be looking for a pet kitten. I don't want to start >calling breeders until I learn some more about these cats, I have been >thinking about a Bengal mostly for some of the same traits I have been >reading the Coon has. Heh. Bengals and Maine Coons are *entirely* different. Personality : Bengals are confident, affectionate cats. However, they are blurs of energy and not lap cats until they have tired themselves out. Then they want to crawl into your lap and cuddle, but not a moment before. Maine Coons are love sacks. They are more lap cattish than Bengals, but since they usually don't *fit* in a lap, they like to cuddle next to you. Grooming: Bengals have short, tight, plush single coats. They shed very little (though they *do* shed) and don't require much more in the way of grooming than a 'polishing' with a sisal glove occasionally. Bengals have what are called 'pelted' coats, and they're totally different from anything you have felt before. Maine Coons have long, heavy, profuse double coats. They *must* be brushed *and* combed at least every other day, preferably daily. Since Maine Coons have the more normal double coat, they shed undercoat pretty normally, which is what generally causes most matting. Care: Bengals and Maine Coons need the same sort of dietary care -- high-quality cat food. Both do extremely well on a raw diet, or with raw treats supplementing their food. Canned food is best. Bengals tend to highly prefer running water (like a Drinkwell) to drink (and play in). Health: HCM has shown up in a few lines of Bengals, so any breeder you buy from should test their cats (and have the printed results to show you). Maine Coons should be tested for PKD, HCM, and Feline Hip Dysplasia. Again, breeders should have the printed test results. Note that breeding cats should be tested yearly for HCM, as the test is simply a colour doppler echocardiogram and thus gives a snapshot of the cat's current state. If the results are more than two years old, they're worthless. Habits: Bengals are the Border Collie of the cat world. Extremely intelligent, extremely active, and *definitely* not for everyone. They have enormous energy levels. Having a single Bengal is a Bad Idea. They need the mental stimulation and energy sink of a friend -- either another Bengal, another high-energy breed (Aby, Siamese, etc), or a high-energy moggy. There is no shelf a Bengal can't find a way to -- a 16-week old Bengal can jump from the floor to the top of a refrigerator. My Bengals can open baby locks, lever-style door handles, and are mastering the round doorknob. They are into everything, and must be part of what you are doing, whether that be cleaning, making beds, doing laundry, or cooking. They are greedy, food-motivated kitties, whcih makes clicker-training a Very Good Idea for this breed. Do a Google Groups Search for "Orchid Top Ten Bengal" and read my Top Ten Reasons You Don't Want A Bengal. If you still want one, I highly recommend joining the Yahoo Group 'Bengals-L' -- you'll be able to hook up with many of the most responsible breeders working in the breed today. No matter which breed you decide on, read my 'Guide to Finding a Responsible Breeder' -- the link is in my sig. Follow the directions. There are a *lot* of BYBs producing both Bengals and Maine Coons, and buying from a BYB is the ticket to getting a poor example of either breed, in health, temperament, conformation, and everything else. Orchid See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid Thank you so much for the info on these cat breeds, orchid. Enough people have mentioned the Maine Coon Cat to me that I have given them a closer look and am beginning to take a strong interest in them. As for their grooming, what I had read about them is that they only need a once-weekly combing. It's interesting that you say they need much more grooming than that, and I will factor that into my breed selection. Thanks also for your tips on finding a responsible breeder. I will definitely read through that information carefully! Lothar Wow Orchid thank you for the detailed response.......the traits I was speaking of were more along the lines of the cats being more responsive than other cats as far as things like being potentially slightly trainable and liking water. The one explanation I liked was someone said a Bengal is about as trainable as the dumbest dog you have ever seen......lol..... Would you please expand a little bit on the BYB breeders and how I would recognize them. Are they similar to the "puppy mills" I read about regarding dogs? Also does this double coat on the Maine Coon make it difficult to groom if you keep up with it as you suggest? I am glad you responded as I am looking for a affectionate cat that likes human contact as much as possible. I knew the Bengal would be on the active side but maybe more than I bargained for. I will definitely explore those links you gave me, thanks so much for taking the time. Brad >Wow Orchid thank you for the detailed response.......the traits I was >speaking of were more along the lines of the cats being more responsive >than other cats as far as things like being potentially slightly >trainable and liking water. The one explanation I liked was someone >said a Bengal is about as trainable as the dumbest dog you have ever >seen......lol..... *grin* That person has never been around Bengals then. Training any cat is like training a terrier -- you have to show them what's in it for them and you can't use forceful methods. When I mentioned clicker training being a Very Good Idea for them, I really did mean it. My Bengals have ~25 on-command behaviours, including basic obedience (yes, like dogs do), stupid tricks, and their agility behaviours (they do ICAT) -- rather more than a dumb dog, eh? However, all food-motivated cats are trainable using clickers -- I also have a moggie boy we rescued off the street and his training is coming along nicely. He gets bored with it a little more quickly than the Bengals do, but he still does quite well. >Would you please expand a little bit on the BYB breeders and how I >would recognize them. First off, read the Guide in my sig. It goes over how to find a responsible breeder step by step. If you have any other questions, please let me know. :) >Are they similar to the "puppy mills" I read >about regarding dogs? Not quite that bad, but kitten mills *do* exist. A kitten from a pet store is from a kitten mill. BYBs are people who breed with no concern for temperament, health, conformation, pretty much anything except for working reproductive organs. Kitten millers see cats as livestock, BYBs are more likely to breed their cats for the fun of it, or for 'just one litter', or to try and make some money back. >Also does this double coat on the Maine Coon make >it difficult to groom if you keep up with it as you suggest? Almost all cats have a double coat -- it's the undercoat that sheds out mostly. However, if you brush and comb a Maine Coon every other day or so you'll comb out most of the hair that would otherwise shed and you won't have any mat problems. If you don't care for their coats, you'll end up with a miserably matted cat that will have to go to the groomer and get shaved. >I am glad >you responded as I am looking for a affectionate cat that likes human [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I will definitely explore those links you gave me, thanks so much for >taking the time. Not a problem. I *love* Bengals and can't imagine my life without them, but a lot of people don't realise what they're like. For me, they are fantastic -- I love that they're always 'helping' me with things, love that they follow me around (having a Bengal means never having to go to the bathroom alone again), love watching them run the Bengal 500 around the house three or four times a day. However, I also don't mind that we don't have any knicknacks that aren't stuck down with museum wax, I don't mind having two of them, and I don't mind that things I don't want them to get into have to be behind a door with a *round* doorknob. It's a tradeoff. Some of my friends love coming to visit, hang out with the boys, and then go home to their normal cats. Others are talking to responsible Bengal breeders to get their own. Still other of my friends would rather meet at places where my cats aren't -- it all comes down to personal preference. Orchid See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid Orchid wrote the following on 3/1/2005 9:46 AM: > Not quite that bad, but kitten mills *do* exist. A kitten > from a pet store is from a kitten mill. Clarification -- Our local pet stores contract with rescue groups to keep cats and kittens at the store for adoption. These are mostly shelter cats whose time was up, and the rescue group gets the money. If this is the case it will be well marked. We adopted our last cat from one of those (the rest came from a rescue group that fosters cats in member's homes) and she is a treasured addition to our family. Karen R. >Orchid wrote the following on 3/1/2005 9:46 AM: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >shelter cats whose time was up, and the rescue group gets the money. If >this is the case it will be well marked. Of course. I am sorry, I just assumed that people would understand that I am talking about non-rescue-group cats when I refer to kittens from pet stores. Mea culpa. Orchid See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid The Maine Coons That I had do not have a thick double coat, they have a very fine longer coat, not thick like a persian. I don not have to brush them but once a week to keep the mats out. If you want to buy a purebreed theres plenty of good breeders out there. If you want a good personitly MC are good. Try the CFA web site to get a good overall about the different breeds. I also own Himalayams, Which I think are great and I breed them. I love a lap cat that can be very playfull. DeborahY >>Orchid wrote the following on 3/1/2005 9:46 AM: >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage > Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid >Hello everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > >Lothar I dont think you will find 100% of all this in any one breed However, while he isnt a shorthair, I really love my (non pure) cat that looks very very much like norwegian forest cat or possibly a maine coon. (by comparing his pic and features with ones on webpages for those breeds) Happy to be alone, easy going, very loving and close companion, and very clever too :) I also have a shorthair russian blue and seems to shed more hair than the longhair !! the russian blue however DOES NOT like being alone and is more mischevious too :) ------------ I'm not an expert on other breeds or cross breeds - so please also consider the opinions and experiences of others as well as to other breeds recommended. ------------- Finally: Its my belief that any cat/dog has its personality strongly influenced by its human owner, and therefore the animal will "grow to you" and "you to it" to an extent, so that you meet somewhere in the middle and are content with each other. >I dont think you will find 100% of all this in any one breed > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >the russian blue however DOES NOT like being alone and is more >mischevious too :) Thanks for the opinions, KLR. Fortunately, I am not looking for a 100% match, because I don't believe there is such a thing. I just want a breed that tends to match my personality and lifestyle as closely as possible. As for the shedding, I have often wondered how close a connection there is between hair length and shedding, or between grooming needs and shedding. I imagine there are indeed longhaired breeds that shed more than some shorthairs. Lothar
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