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Cat Forum / General Topics / February 2005"fat" cat
We have 2 kittens, not quite 6 months old..The female weighs about 7 pounds; but the male weighs 12 pounds. A - Is this too mch for a 6-month male to weigh? B- How can we control the male's weight since they are fed at the same time? They both have free access to the whole house and it would be difficult to keep one on a locked room while the other one ate. any ideas? Thanks Ken > A - Is this too mch for a 6-month male to weigh? It depends. You need to look at the cat, is it a large cat or is it a fat cat? > B- How can we control the male's weight since they are fed at the same > time? What do you feed them? Try feeding mostly wet (canned/tinned) food, it is more nutritious than dry food.  SignatureVictor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com <snip> > What do you feed them? Try feeding mostly wet (canned/tinned) food, it > is more nutritious than dry food. Is this true? I have heard / read from a few sources that dry food is supposed to be better for kittens. *so confused* Justin > <snip> > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Justin The vet world is slowly coming to realize that dry is NOT the best choice, especially for males who can develop crystals in the urine which could be life threatening for them. Honest to God, if I ever get kittens again I will NOT get them started on dry. > > <snip> > > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > will > NOT get them started on dry. Have you any idea why cats seem to get addicted to dry food, to the point that I receive urgent messages when any part of the bottom of the bowl is exposed? I'd think it would be counter-instinctive, since it would be so different than the normal mean of a carnivore. >>> <snip> >>>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > bowl is exposed? I'd think it would be counter-instinctive, since it > would be so different than the normal mean of a carnivore. I would suspect it is something like we humans with carbs. There is no doubt that when you do the first two weeks of the South Beach diet and have only veggies for your carbs, you lose the craving for complex carbs of bread and sweets. Dry food has a lot of filler in it that consists of carbs. I have a problem with dry food that I have been going to bring up here Wilson would live on dry food if I let him but sometimes I dont put *any* down,in an effort to make him eat wet food ,some days he'll eat nothing other days just a nibble he's even started to knock back his fresh meat at tea-time, I get him beef, and veal sandwich steak or lamb fillets, and he's certainly not sick just stubborn about what he wants to eat, he'll eat dry food any time at all though Jean.P. Howard Berkowitz <hcb@gettcomm.com> wrote in message news:hcb- 468EFA.13071025012005@news-central.giganews.com... > > > <snip> > > > > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > bowl is exposed? I'd think it would be counter-instinctive, since it > would be so different than the normal mean of a carnivore. |I have a problem with dry food that I have been going to bring up here | Wilson would live on dry food if I let him but sometimes I dont put *any* [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | certainly not sick just stubborn about what he wants to eat, he'll eat dry | food any time at all though Jean.P. As long as he drinks plenty he should be fine. My tom only wants meat in jelly though, the rest he leaves aside, especially p?t?. How old is your cat? Carola >The vet world is slowly coming to realize that dry is NOT the best choice, >especially for males who can develop crystals in the urine which could be >life threatening for them. Honest to God, if I ever get kittens again I will >NOT get them started on dry. Are there articles online that discuss this? I'd like to do some further reading on it. My kittens eat dry food exclusively. >> The vet world is slowly coming to realize that dry is NOT the best choice, >> especially for males who can develop crystals in the urine which could be [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Are there articles online that discuss this? I'd like to do some > further reading on it. My kittens eat dry food exclusively. Well, you can start here: http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=whycatsne edcannedfood >> Are there articles online that discuss this? I'd like to do some >> further reading on it. My kittens eat dry food exclusively. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=whycatsne >edcannedfood Thank you. I will start reading up on this topic. > > <snip> > > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > life threatening for them. Honest to God, if I ever get kittens again I will > NOT get them started on dry. When we first got Vino we only fed him dry. Didn't want to bother with wet and didn't know about it really. Then I started feeding him a little bit of Fancy Feast as a treat. He loved it and began to bug me for it in the mornings. I started giving it to him every morning and pretty soon it was every evening too. Then I figured I should feed him something better than Fancy Feast, because I was feeding him Iams dry. So I started feeding him Iams canned twice a day while still leaving dry out all the time. Now he begs and begs for the wet and only eats the dry between meals as emergency rations. He also gets some Science Diet and Nutro canned and occasionally some Whiskas pouches because they are the only thing I can get here and I have to stretch out my "import" food. If it was up to Vino, he would never touch dry again. -- Britta Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that's covered in fur! Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album > Check out pictures of Vino at: > http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album Beautiful cat! Great pictures! SignatureCatwalker aka Pu$$y Feet ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Chauncey, Silver Tabby Persion Bubba, Black & White Short Hair Bandit, Seal Point Himalayan Midge, Grey & White Medium Hair Chigger, Seal Point Siamese mix Killer, Beta > I have heard / read from a few sources that dry food is supposed to be > better for kittens. Think about it. Cats are obligate carnivores. They have zero requirements for carbohydrates. What are some of the main ingredients of dry food? Grains. Why are you feedling corn or rice to a carnivore? ;-) The dry food is better thing came to be because supposedly chewing on kibble cleans tartar buildup. Unfortunately, most cats are really bad chewers and end up swallowing kibble almost full, so the cleaning effect of kibble is not significant. This noted, I do feed my cats a kibble mix. They get canned food twice a day and then they get kibble to snack on throughout the day. They get most of their nourishment from the canned food, so I'm happy and they have a large variety in their diet, which makes them happy. :) SignatureVictor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com >> I have heard / read from a few sources that dry food is supposed to be >> better for kittens. > >Think about it. Cats are obligate carnivores. They have zero >requirements for carbohydrates. What are some of the main ingredients of >dry food? Grains. Why are you feedling corn or rice to a carnivore? ;-) That's misleading: cats naturally eat small animals - the entire animal, including the contents of the digestive system (some don't eat mouse heads), and their prey animals eat mostly carbohydrates. A significant percentage of the diet of wild cats is carbohydrates. Also, many cats have a taste for fruits - usually specific fruits and not the same ones for all that eat fruit (25% of mine *love* watermelon; one likes pear juice, but not pears; none like apples or bananas). T.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu) SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D." somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected. > mouse heads), and their prey animals eat mostly carbohydrates. A > significant percentage of the diet of wild cats is carbohydrates. Not unless you think 5-6% is significant. > Also, many cats have a taste for fruits - usually specific fruits and > not the same ones for all that eat fruit (25% of mine *love* > watermelon; one likes pear juice, but not pears; none like apples or And some of mine love broccoli, but that doesn't mean it's part of their natural diet. SignatureVictor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com I have one that likes potato chips and french fries. I have to be very careful if I have them myself, or he'll steal them right out of my hand! Another likes herbs, especially mint and cilantro. There are two that lick plastic bags (what's up with that?). There's no telling what a cat will decide to eat if left to make his/her own decisions. Hopefully we can help them make better choices. :) SignatureCatwalker aka Pu$$y Feet ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Chauncey, Silver Tabby Persion Bubba, Black & White Short Hair Bandit, Seal Point Himalayan Midge, Grey & White Medium Hair Chigger, Seal Point Siamese mix Killer, Beta >> mouse heads), and their prey animals eat mostly carbohydrates. A >> significant percentage of the diet of wild cats is carbohydrates. > >Not unless you think 5-6% is significant. It's certainly well beyond the level of minor nutrients. >> Also, many cats have a taste for fruits - usually specific fruits and >> not the same ones for all that eat fruit (25% of mine *love* >> watermelon; one likes pear juice, but not pears; none like apples or > >And some of mine love broccoli, but that doesn't mean it's part of their >natural diet. Depends on what you mean by natural. I read somewhere that one of the few differences between the African Wild Cat and modern domestic cats is that the modern cats have a digestive system modified in the direction of less specialized diets, that is, in the direction of improved carbohydrate digestion. And of course almost any animal can absorb simple sugars, which explains why so many carnivores also eat fruit, and most anything else they can swallow that they think they can digest - much dietary specialization is learned: animals eat what they can catch or gather, and thrive on. SignatureT.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu) > And of course almost any animal can absorb simple sugars, which > explains why so many carnivores also eat fruit, and most anything else > they can swallow that they think they can digest - much dietary > specialization is learned: animals eat what they can catch or gather, > and thrive on. Or whatever will cause the most trouble. We had one when I was younger who would get up on the table and lick the top of the butter if you turned your back. SignatureCatwalker aka Pu$$y Feet ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Chauncey, Silver Tabby Persion Bubba, Black & White Short Hair Bandit, Seal Point Himalayan Midge, Grey & White Medium Hair Chigger, Seal Point Siamese mix Killer, Beta > Depends on what you mean by natural. I read somewhere that one of the > few differences between the African Wild Cat and modern domestic cats > is that the modern cats have a digestive system modified in the > direction of less specialized diets, that is, in the direction of > improved carbohydrate digestion. And of course almost any animal can Really? Are you trying to tell us that the digestive system of the cat evolved in a couple of thousand years? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that is? SignatureVictor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com >> Depends on what you mean by natural. I read somewhere that one of the >> few differences between the African Wild Cat and modern domestic cats [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >evolved in a couple of thousand years? Do you have any idea how >ridiculous that is? I take it you have absolutely no understanding of animal breeding or of evolution by natural selection. That 'couple of thousand years' is *much* longer than that - more like 4000 years, and for cats, that is almost 4000 generations. In evolutionary terms, that is long enough for significant changes - modern humans are not much more than 4000 generations removed from the quite different pre-modern humans. In some domesticated animals (cows, dogs), drastic changes have been brought about by artifical breeding in a small fraction of that number of generations. T.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu) SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D." somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected. > I take it you have absolutely no understanding of animal breeding or > of evolution by natural selection. I'm not an expert, but I am a scientist and understand the basic concepts of evolution. > That 'couple of thousand years' is *much* longer than that - more like > 4000 years, and for cats, that is almost 4000 generations. In > evolutionary terms, that is long enough for significant changes - In evolutionary terms, 4000 generations is not significant. Evolution takes hundreds of thousands of years to happen. > modern humans are not much more than 4000 generations removed from the > quite different pre-modern humans. In some domesticated animals Really? According to my research, the first modern humans appeared in the Holocene Epoch, about 8,000 years ago while the Neanderthals (the most recent hominid group) appeared in the Pleistocene Epoch, 1.8 *million* years ago. 4000 generations is around 80,000 years and we're talking of 1 million years. Quite a difference if you ask me. :) > (cows, dogs), drastic changes have been brought about by artifical > breeding in a small fraction of that number of generations. And you must understand the difference between natural and artificial selection, right? SignatureVictor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com >> I take it you have absolutely no understanding of animal breeding or >> of evolution by natural selection. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >In evolutionary terms, 4000 generations is not significant. Evolution >takes hundreds of thousands of years to happen. That's not even close to true - bacteria can evolve new traits in weeks or even days (a few hundred generations): it is definitely more an issue of number of opportunities to remix genes and for modifications to be transmitted - both of which are related to reproductive rate, than to arbitrary time scales that have nothing to do with the life cycles of the organism involved. >> modern humans are not much more than 4000 generations removed from the >> quite different pre-modern humans. In some domesticated animals [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >*million* years ago. 4000 generations is around 80,000 years and we're >talking of 1 million years. Quite a difference if you ask me. :) Interesting, since anatomically modern man has been in Australia for at least 50 000 years (some evidence points to 75 000 - 100 000 years BP) and in the Americas for at least 12 000 years. T.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu) SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D." somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected. > That's not even close to true - bacteria can evolve new traits in I was under the impression we were discussing mammals, not bacteria. SignatureVictor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM) Send your spam here: uce@ftc.gov Email me here: pistorLITTER@BOXaustin.rr.com >>>Depends on what you mean by natural. I read somewhere that one of the >>>few differences between the African Wild Cat and modern domestic cats [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > (cows, dogs), drastic changes have been brought about by artifical > breeding in a small fraction of that number of generations. In horses their ability to absorb foods depends on the bacteria in their gut, therefore you have to introduce different foods gradually so that the bacteria has time to adjust to the new type of food, so that it can be absorbed rather than pass right through. I am only guessing but as cats also seem to get diarrhoea easily when changing foods do their stomachs also work in a similar way? This would go a little way in explaining why wild cats and domestic cats can eat different types of food. Rather than their digestive system having actually evolved perhaps the bacteria inside has adjusted itself to be able to absorb different foods? Just a guess and probably wrong!!! > T.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu) > SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D." > somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected. SignatureBadger Badger Badger ["Followup-To:" header set to rec.pets.cats.anecdotes.] On 2005-01-26, BC penned: > In horses their ability to absorb foods depends on the bacteria in their > gut, therefore you have to introduce different foods gradually so that the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Just a guess and probably wrong!!! Makes sense to me. If I haven't eaten beef for a while, it will upset my stomach. Signaturemonique, roommate of Oscar the (female) grouch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eros was adopted! Eros has a home now! *cheer!* > We have 2 kittens, not quite 6 months old..The female weighs about 7 > pounds; but the male weighs 12 pounds. > > A - Is this too mch for a 6-month male to weigh? depends... is it fat or muscle? Time to get buddy neutered, btw; just ask the vet. pat >> We have 2 kittens, not quite 6 months old..The female weighs about 7 >> pounds; but the male weighs 12 pounds. >> >> A - Is this too mch for a 6-month male to weigh? > > depends... is it fat or muscle? Good point. I have 2 four year olds who are both in perfect physical shape and roughly the same size. One weighs 13 lbs. and the other weighs 9 lbs. I think breed has a lot to do with it. The heavier one is part Bombay and they are known to be "bricks wrapped in solk" for their body density. > We have 2 kittens, not quite 6 months old..The female weighs about 7 > pounds; but the male weighs 12 pounds. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Ken Ken, Have you spoken to you vet about this matter? If not, I suggest that you do so. It could be something medical, such as a thyroid problem. If you have spoken to them, what do they suggest? Whenever I am in doubt of something dealing with my cats, I will call my vet and ask them. Most vets will give you a bit of free advice over the phone. If they for some reason don't give any free advice over the phone, I would recommend going to another vet. Good luck with you two little furry friends. an easy-to-read article FEEDING YOUR CAT: KNOW THE BASICS OF FELINE NUTRITION Dr. Lisa A. Pierson, DVM http://www.catsincanada.com/articles/feeding.html someone posted this last year, and I have great faith in it now. I feed my cat mostly wet food now, with access to dry. Before I fed her less wet, so she'd eat more dry food, which turns out not to be so good. She has not gained weight, and her coat is much silkier. -- ___________________ Jodie jodie75@sympatico.ca > > We have 2 kittens, not quite 6 months old..The female weighs about 7 > > pounds; but the male weighs 12 pounds. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > reason don't give any free advice over the phone, I would recommend > going to another vet. Good luck with you two little furry friends. > We have 2 kittens, not quite 6 months old..The female weighs about 7 > pounds; but the male weighs 12 pounds. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Ken This may or may not be "too fat". It depends on the kitten - Sammy weighed that much at 6 months (at 9 months she now weights 15 pounds - she clearly has Maine Coon ancestry), but she's the correct weight for her size (she's about 3 1/2 to 4 feet long from nose to tail tip). A quick rule of thumb - you should not be able to see a cat's ribs or back bone (too thin), but you *should* be able to easily feel a cat's ribs with your hands. I'd check with your vet if you're not sure. Hugs, CatNipped >A - Is this too mch for a 6-month male to weigh? >B- How can we control the male's weight since they are fed at the same >time? It's hard to tell without seeing the cat. Some cats are naturally larger, some just fat. 12 lbs for a 6-month old male does sound excessive. Can you at all feel the cat's ribs? If not, he is most likely overweight. But the best person to judge if your cat is fat, is your vet. Dik | We have 2 kittens, not quite 6 months old..The female weighs about 7 | pounds; but the male weighs 12 pounds. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] | | Ken My vet friend says that one may stuff a kitten until it's one year old because it has to grow. Males *are* heavier than females. After a lot of research I have come to the conclusion that dry food available all day round and wet food served once or twice a day (morning/evening) is the best solution. Evening is better if you feed once a day because it prevents the cats from waking you up in the middle of the night or early morning. My cats (grown up) eat 100 grams of wet food each every day but some like 200g per day. Carola >We have 2 kittens, not quite 6 months old..The female weighs about 7 >pounds; but the male weighs 12 pounds. > >A - Is this too mch for a 6-month male to weigh? >B- How can we control the male's weight since they are fed at the same >time? My two kittens are about the same age as yours, and I was wondering the exact same thing, 'cause I've got the exact same situation. Maybe it's just normal. I can still feel his ribs without much trouble, so I don't think he could be classified as overweight right now, but he's really trying to get there. The other seems to barely eat and is skinny, but it seems like she's getting enough nutrition, if barely. The other seems to barely eat and is > skinny, but it seems like she's getting enough nutrition, if barely. Or perhaps she's a hollow kitty. Sarrasine has an enormous apetitte but looks smaller and slimmer than Redunzel. We had the same thing with Isis and Fugazi, Isis had to be hollow inside to have shoved away that much food without getting fat. Sarrasine is perfectly healthy as was Isis it's just the annoying way some cats are. Able to stuff their faces and not put an ounce on! Lesley Slave to the Fabulous Furballs | The other seems to barely eat and is | > skinny, but it seems like she's getting enough nutrition, if barely. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] | | Slave to the Fabulous Furballs How did your cats get such extraordinary names? Carola > How did your cats get such extraordinary names? > > Carola Carola The names of my cats...well my first cat was Speedy Joe but he was named by someone else. Isis isn't that unusual a name for a cat- I am sure I've seen a couple more Isis's on here. From the Egyptian "top Goddess" as if Isis would have been anything but top of everything....... She was named by the SO when he saw her sitting like an Egyptian cat statue Fugazi is Vietnamese for "Chaos". Believe me it suited a cat who couldn't get her head around the idea that cats as supposed to be graceful and silent Redunzel is actually spelt RDNZL but people always ask me how to pronouce it so these days I type it as its said. The story is Frank Zappa gave this name to a small black kitten but when his son (who was about 3 at the time) saw said kitten in action, his son christened the kitten "Fightey-Bitey" and the kitten kept that name for the rest of a long life. The name RDNZL was then used for an instrumental inspired by the kitten bouncing and tumbling about and my SO chose the name because she did bounce and tumble (still does actually) Sarrasine is the title of a Balzac short story but a friend of mine who's seriously into medieval languages tells me that its a corruption of "sarrasin" (Medieval French) which comes from "Saracen" and simply means "A dark skinned person" and she is black and very definately a person Lesley Slave of the Fabulous Furballs > Redunzel is actually spelt RDNZL but people always ask me how to > pronouce it so these days I type it as its said. The story is Frank [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > by the kitten bouncing and tumbling about and my SO chose the name > because she did bounce and tumble (still does actually) Zappa was known by his family as The Man Who Names Things. :) On 7 Feb 2005 05:43:04 -0800, LMadigan@hhnt.nhs.uk (Lesley Madigan) >The other seems to barely eat and is >> skinny, but it seems like she's getting enough nutrition, if barely. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >was Isis it's just the annoying way some cats are. Able to stuff their >faces and not put an ounce on! just like some people - go figure, eh? >Lesley > >Slave to the Fabulous Furballs > >Or perhaps she's a hollow kitty. Sarrasine has an enormous apetitte > >but looks smaller and slimmer than Redunzel. We had the same thing [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > just like some people - go figure, eh? Its unfair! I swear that cat(Sarrasine) eats like a medium sized pony and she's tiny! The day we got her, her first reaction to her new home was to hide in the carrier and refuse to come out then gradually this little head peeped out of the carrier. she looked round and triangulated where the food was, bolted to the dish, ate 2 kitten pouches and half a tin of food without stopping, then burped loudly and returned to the box for a well earned well stuffed snooze.... Lesley Slave to the Fabulous Furballs |
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