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nospam@nospam - 01 Jan 2005 23:52 GMT
Two weeks ago I brought home another cat (DMS 2 year old female named Bette)
to be a companion to my DMS 2 year female Belle. Belle is also 17 lbs and
much larger than the petite Bette Belle  is laid back and ready to make
friends.  .  Bette however keeps hissing at her.  Neither have attacked each
other.  I have separated them most of the time in two separate rooms -
mainly because Bette is getting over the cat flu (taking Antibiotics).  The
door has a gap under it where Belle plays pawsy.  I have let Bette come out
occasionally now that she is better.  Both mostly just look at each other
when Bette is not hissing at Belle when she trys to approach her.

How long will it take for them to quit this behavior?  One reason we got a
another cat so Belle would have a friend to play with.  If this cat doesn't
become friends with Belle soon, my husband want to take her back to the SPCA
where whe got Bette.  Any comments or suggestions?
Dan M - 02 Jan 2005 00:37 GMT
> How long will it take for them to quit this behavior?  One reason we got a
> another cat so Belle would have a friend to play with.  If this cat doesn't
> become friends with Belle soon, my husband want to take her back to the SPCA
> where whe got Bette.  Any comments or suggestions?

1st suggestion: give it time. It is possible for it to take a couple
months, sometimes much longer.

2nd: buy a bottle of Rescue Remedy and put a few drops in their water
bowls. That worked wonders towards reducing the tension level in my
house when I've added cats.

3rd: buy some Feliway diffusers. These also can work wonders.
Bryan S. Slick - 02 Jan 2005 02:40 GMT
[nospam@nospam (nospam@nospam.com)]
[Sat, 01 Jan 2005 23:52:43 GMT]

:How long will it take for them to quit this behavior?  One reason we got a
:another cat so Belle would have a friend to play with.  If this cat doesn't
:become friends with Belle soon, my husband want to take her back to the SPCA
:where whe got Bette.  Any comments or suggestions?

Yes, count yourself lucky.

We took in a stray (after shots, etc) and Trouble (the mistress of the
house) took to using lots of places as her bathroom that were never
intended for such use.

It's Belle's house.  She doesn't want a friend.  Take the cat back.

Signature

Bryan S. Slick, usenet at slick-family dot net

"You either do or you don't believe, that it can or can't be done.
An ounce of faith and a touch of grace, and it can happen.. to anyone."

[Lonestar, "From There To Here"]

Dan and Nancy Mahoney - 02 Jan 2005 03:22 GMT
> We took in a stray (after shots, etc) and Trouble (the mistress of the
> house) took to using lots of places as her bathroom that were never
> intended for such use.
>
> It's Belle's house.  She doesn't want a friend.  Take the cat back.

That's bad advice. Very, very bad advice.

Give it time. It took Cleo and Amelia a couple months to adjust to
Tabitha and Sammy, and they're great buddys now.

Don't rush it. After a couple months you will have a better idea whether
Belle wants a friend.

Dan
jacquie0 - 02 Jan 2005 04:40 GMT
>> We took in a stray (after shots, etc) and Trouble (the mistress of the
>> house) took to using lots of places as her bathroom that were never
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Dan

I agree with Dan, it could take a couple of months or a couple of weeks.
Don't let this discourage you. Cats are very territorial by nature, and
having "competition" around makes them behave in the way that you have
described. Once they realize that the "new kitty in the house" is not a
 threat, they will settle down and actually welcome them. Another thing
to remember is.....DO NOT forget to give the first cat as much attention
as you give the new cat. If you give the new cat all of the attention,
then the first cat will feel threatened and worried that you don't love
them as much any more.
nospam@nospam - 03 Jan 2005 02:22 GMT
I give the first and new cat equal time and attention so neither feels
neglected.

> >> We took in a stray (after shots, etc) and Trouble (the mistress of the
> >> house) took to using lots of places as her bathroom that were never
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> then the first cat will feel threatened and worried that you don't love
> them as much any more.
Dan and Nancy Mahoney - 03 Jan 2005 03:50 GMT
> I give the first and new cat equal time and attention so neither feels
> neglected.

Then it sounds like you're doing what you need to do. Just give them
some time to work out their own pecking order, and maybe think about
trying the Rescue Remedy drops
(http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3550&Ntt=rescue%20
remedy&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=0&Nty=1
)
in the water.

The cats in my life have all been happier when they've had company.
Gandalf - 03 Jan 2005 05:30 GMT
>> I give the first and new cat equal time and attention so neither feels
>> neglected.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>The cats in my life have all been happier when they've had company.
When I got a little kitten for a companion for my 1 yo. adult cat, it
took them over 6 months to become friends.

After that, they were always together: playing, wrestling, tearing
around the house, sleeping together, etc.

I'm sure glad I didn't give up after a week or two! Those two cats
shared about 15 years together. Both their lives were enriched by each
other's companionship.

Give them time; if necessary, LOTS of time. Don't give up.

Just give each cat their own space, separate littler boxes, food and
water, and give them some supervised time together every day.
Bryan S. Slick - 03 Jan 2005 13:42 GMT
[jacquie0 <jacquie0> (jacquie0 <jacquie0>)]
[Sat, 01 Jan 2005 23:36:24 -0800]

:worried that you don't love
:them as much any more.

Assigning human emotions to animals incapable of them doesn't help the
situation any.

Signature

Bryan S. Slick, usenet at slick-family dot net

"You either do or you don't believe, that it can or can't be done.
An ounce of faith and a touch of grace, and it can happen.. to anyone."

[Lonestar, "From There To Here"]

Mary - 03 Jan 2005 16:29 GMT
> [jacquie0 <jacquie0> (jacquie0 <jacquie0>)]
> [Sat, 01 Jan 2005 23:36:24 -0800]
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Assigning human emotions to animals incapable of them doesn't help the
> situation any.

Oh, I see. You're a moron. Buh bye!

P.S. You twollies need to get it through your heads that "rec.pets.cats"
does not exist. That always alerts me to your presence before your
stupid comments do.
Bryan S. Slick - 03 Jan 2005 16:55 GMT
[Mary (crazyaboutfelines@yahoo.com)]
[Mon, 03 Jan 2005 16:29:48 GMT]

:> :worried that you don't love
:> :them as much any more.

:> Assigning human emotions to animals incapable of them doesn't help the
:> situation any.

:Oh, I see. You're a moron. Buh bye!

Actually, no, not at all.  I am a cat lover.. but one who's learned that
complex emotional responses such as worrying about abstract concepts (in
this case, "I am worried my owner doesn't love me anymore.") simply
aren't possible in an animal with the neural structure found in cats,
dogs, etc.

:P.S. You twollies need to get it through your heads that "rec.pets.cats"
:does not exist. That always alerts me to your presence before your
:stupid comments do.

Your news server may not carry it, but rec.pets.cats does indeed exist.  
Without it, I would never have seen your message accusing me of
trolling.  For what it's worth, I didn't even notice that this thread
was cross-posted.

The fact that your emotional side doesn't *like* a conclusion does not
make said conclusion any more accurate.  Companion animals are in fact
capable of a *wide* variety of emotions, some of which closely mirror
our own, but the kind of complex reasoning suggested in worrying about
lost love simply isn't one of which they're capable.  It's not *mean* to
say that, it's simply fact.

Signature

Bryan S. Slick, usenet at slick-family dot net

"You either do or you don't believe, that it can or can't be done.
An ounce of faith and a touch of grace, and it can happen.. to anyone."

[Lonestar, "From There To Here"]

Mary - 03 Jan 2005 17:05 GMT
> [Mary (crazyaboutfelines@yahoo.com)]
> [Mon, 03 Jan 2005 16:29:48 GMT]
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> aren't possible in an animal with the neural structure found in cats,
> dogs, etc.

Cats do indeed have emotions and do worry about being replaced
in their owners' affections. Only a moron would say that this is
anthropomorphism. Cats vying for one's attention is an observable
phenomenon--and so is their territorial nature. The feelings that go
along with the behavior are certainly a matter of speculation, but so
is all discussion of the feelings of others, regardless of the species.
Cats feel love and cats feel jealousy. Cats certainly feel threatened.

As for rec.pets.cats, I wondered about the possibility t hat none of
my servers carried it just as I hit "send."

In any case, to claim that animals do not have emotions and do
not feel love or worry about another animal replacing them in their
human's affections is bullshit, whether your intent is to inflame or
just to demonstrate your superior intellect.
Bryan S. Slick - 03 Jan 2005 17:23 GMT
[Mary (crazyaboutfelines@yahoo.com)]
[Mon, 03 Jan 2005 17:05:46 GMT]

:In any case, to claim that animals do not have emotions and do
:not feel love or worry about another animal replacing them in their
:human's affections is bullshit, whether your intent is to inflame or
:just to demonstrate your superior intellect.

It seems apparent that you didn't read my post, and are responding
mostly with your heart rather than your head.

At no time did I say that cats do not have emotions.

Go back and read it again, or wallow in your ignorance.  It matters
little to me which option you choose.

Signature

Bryan S. Slick, usenet at slick-family dot net

"You either do or you don't believe, that it can or can't be done.
An ounce of faith and a touch of grace, and it can happen.. to anyone."

[Lonestar, "From There To Here"]

Mary - 03 Jan 2005 21:12 GMT
> [Mary (crazyaboutfelines@yahoo.com)]
> [Mon, 03 Jan 2005 17:05:46 GMT]
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> It seems apparent that you didn't read my post, and are responding
> mostly with your heart rather than your head.

You're a regular one-trick pony, you Spock wanna be. :)
DL Farnworth - 04 Jan 2005 18:59 GMT
| [Mary (crazyaboutfelines@yahoo.com)]
| [Mon, 03 Jan 2005 16:29:48 GMT]
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
:news:MPG.1c4315d0967e0ca98c022@news-40.giganews.com...
| ...

Companion animals are in fact
| capable of a *wide* variety of emotions, some of which closely mirror
| our own, but the kind of complex reasoning suggested in worrying about
| lost love simply isn't one of which they're capable.
...

I wonder if this is true.

Baby, a nine-year old of great intelligence, can
somehow deduce from a few noises in the garage
(carrying cages being readied), a simple change of
circumstance (my getting dressed to go out in the
morning, not the afternoon), and some other indicator
that I am not aware of that a trip to the vet is
imminent.  She then takes appropriate evasive measures
before I even come up the stairs to find the lucky
victim.

Jason, then 12 and even more intelligent, plotted a
course to an open window where she'd never been before,
over an ironing board that was up temporarily, in order
to spy on a cat whose prowling outside she'd heard from
another room.

This same Jason, spying a rival on a fence from my
office window, jumped from the window to the desk, out
the door, down the hall to the kitchen, into the
garage, out the window, down a path between the shed
and the house past the gardenias and down another path
under the original window through the garden to meet
the intruder.  All but the path under the window was
concealed from that part of the fence she was
interested in.  And until she left the garage window,
her track took her away from the stranger.

I have often watched a cat examine a situation, say,
the top of a table they cannot see, listening,
sniffing, looking from different vantage points.  And
then decide either to jump or not.

These are all examples of complex thinking about
future, unseen or conditional situations.  As emotions
differ little from other sensations, an organism
capable of complex thinking about sensations could
reasonably use emotions as the target or object of
ratiocination.

The emotions cats feel do not, as you say, match our
own.  But then we are not certain that any human's
emotions or even sensations match our own.  We judge
that they probably do where we encounter similar
circumstances.  When we see someone taste table salt,
for instance, we think, "He is tasting salt."  We do
not know the taste he tastes is the taste we call
"salt".  For convenience, we assume he does, that
because he is built like us, he feels or senses like
us.  Very probably we are often wrong.

Our experience of cats is the same.  When I was so
angry with Sally, I wouldn't talk to her, she came
around, nuzzling, pushing, falling over in a display of
what looked like humble supplication.  And when I
relented, she sprang up and around and ran in and out,
playing hide and seek under the tissue paper.  Just as
a human might (sans tissue paper) when the beloved,
once turned away, now turns back.  Just as I say, "This
fellow tastes salt," so I say, "Sally loves me."  And
with just as much accuracy, I think.

Well, enough.  One last edifying -- or if not edifying,
at any rate amusing -- story: my nephew was saying,
"Cats aren't like people.  They don't feel envy..." and
would have gone on except that Alice on the coffee
table reached down to swipe at Baby who just then was
approaching.  There is no love lost between the two.
Alice has declared herself my owner, a position
disputed by Baby, who has known and loved me much
longer.
Miss Violette - 02 Jan 2005 11:55 GMT
Dan is correct, if you have the time it can usually work out, soft
> > We took in a stray (after shots, etc) and Trouble (the mistress of the
> > house) took to using lots of places as her bathroom that were never
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Dan
Bryan S. Slick - 03 Jan 2005 13:42 GMT
[Dan and Nancy Mahoney (dan@catfolks.net)]
[Sat, 01 Jan 2005 19:22:38 -0800]

:> We took in a stray (after shots, etc) and Trouble (the mistress of the
:> house) took to using lots of places as her bathroom that were never
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
:
:That's bad advice. Very, very bad advice.

Your opinion, and you're entitled to it, naturally.

My experience says otherwise.

:Give it time. It took Cleo and Amelia a couple months to adjust to
:Tabitha and Sammy, and they're great buddys now.

The timeframe is really dependent upon how severe the consequences are
at the moment.  In our case, the consequences were untenable from Day
One and did not improve, nor were they likely to do so in the future.

Signature

Bryan S. Slick, usenet at slick-family dot net

"You either do or you don't believe, that it can or can't be done.
An ounce of faith and a touch of grace, and it can happen.. to anyone."

[Lonestar, "From There To Here"]

nospam@nospam - 03 Jan 2005 02:20 GMT
It is not Belle that is the problem.  She has tried on several occasions to
approach Bette (the new cat) only to be hissed at by Bette.  Belle is very
laid back and is very friendly.  Belle wants a friend - she doesn't mind the
other cat.  It's the other cat that is posturing.

> [nospam@nospam (nospam@nospam.com)]
> [Sat, 01 Jan 2005 23:52:43 GMT]
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> It's Belle's house.  She doesn't want a friend.  Take the cat back.
Bryan S. Slick - 03 Jan 2005 13:44 GMT
[nospam@nospam (nospam@nospam.com)]
[Mon, 03 Jan 2005 02:20:18 GMT]

:It is not Belle that is the problem.  She has tried on several occasions to
:approach Bette (the new cat) only to be hissed at by Bette.  Belle is very
:laid back and is very friendly.  Belle wants a friend - she doesn't mind the
:other cat.  It's the other cat that is posturing.

Ah, that's different then.. the similarity in the names threw me off.

Well, if it's the newbie with the problem, sit her down and ask her if
she'd rather go back to the shelter.. heh.

Seriously, though.. as long as they're not gouging each other's eyes out
or festooning your home with urine and feces, I'd let them sort it out.  
Things would be different if it was the original cat with the problem.

Signature

Bryan S. Slick, usenet at slick-family dot net

"You either do or you don't believe, that it can or can't be done.
An ounce of faith and a touch of grace, and it can happen.. to anyone."

[Lonestar, "From There To Here"]

M.C. Mullen - 03 Jan 2005 14:47 GMT
| [nospam@nospam (nospam@nospam.com)]
| [Mon, 03 Jan 2005 02:20:18 GMT]
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
| or festooning your home with urine and feces, I'd let them sort it out.
| Things would be different if it was the original cat with the problem.

I agree, as long as the cats don't actually get hurt, there's hope.
Our Micky is in the position that he had to 1st get used to a dog - it took
one week,
2nd to a bitchy female - it took one month, 3rd to a playful kitten - it
took 2 weeks.

Just give them time, but don't expect that they will ever groom each other,
if they do, then it's a real extra gift!

Carola
ChildFree23 - 02 Jan 2005 18:39 GMT
I think you're expecting WAY too much from these two cats.
Give them AT LEAST six weeks to get to know each other.  The
hissing will eventually subside, just let it run its course.
Just because you have two cats of the same age and sex does
not automatically mean they will "bond" and become best
friends.

ChildFree23
Proudly Owned By Three Independent-Minded Cats

> Two weeks ago I brought home another cat (DMS 2 year old
> female named Bette)
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> back to the SPCA
> where whe got Bette.  Any comments or suggestions?
David G Fisher - 02 Jan 2005 20:08 GMT
Like everyone else is saying, it takes more time and patience. Tell your
husband to relax.

Dave

> Two weeks ago I brought home another cat (DMS 2 year old female named Bette)
> to be a companion to my DMS 2 year female Belle. Belle is also 17 lbs and
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> become friends with Belle soon, my husband want to take her back to the SPCA
> where whe got Bette.  Any comments or suggestions?
Karen M. - 03 Jan 2005 00:40 GMT
>The door has a gap under it where Belle plays pawsy.

That's a very good sign. Usually the established cat is the one
who's upset about the newcomer.

It took my old fat Kitto several months to fully accept the newbie
Blanche, but it's been worth it. The little kitty entices the old one
to play, chase her, and talk. Many's the time I'm drifting off to sleep
and hear the gentle patter of thundering kitty hooves on the hardwood
floor. And this afternoon they were curled up on the couch with their
rumps touching!

Another coulple things to try--get them both playing with opposite
ends of a long piece of rope or strip of fabric. Make a paper bag kitty
fort with a peephole in the bottom. And feed them simultaneously out of
a double-wide dish.
They'll work it out, don't give up!

HTH
--Karen M.
dd - 03 Jan 2005 13:13 GMT
Kittens are more accepting of change than adult cats, and Bette is
probably not so adaptable to the new living situations as a kitten
might be. Based on my vet's advice, I got a kitten rather than an adult
cat as a companion  for my older cat. The older cat did a lot of
hissing at first, but after a few months, they were pals. Bette
probably will settle down after a month or so. At first, she will
probably ignore Belle, then gradually will warm up to her.

> Two weeks ago I brought home another cat (DMS 2 year old female named Bette)
> to be a companion to my DMS 2 year female Belle. Belle is also 17 lbs and
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> become friends with Belle soon, my husband want to take her back to the SPCA
> where whe got Bette.  Any comments or suggestions?
Frank Pittel - 22 Apr 2006 02:27 GMT
In rec.pets.cats.health+behav nospam@nospam <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
: Two weeks ago I brought home another cat (DMS 2 year old female named Bette)
: to be a companion to my DMS 2 year female Belle. Belle is also 17 lbs and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
: occasionally now that she is better.  Both mostly just look at each other
: when Bette is not hissing at Belle when she trys to approach her.

: How long will it take for them to quit this behavior?  One reason we got a
: another cat so Belle would have a friend to play with.  If this cat doesn't
: become friends with Belle soon, my husband want to take her back to the SPCA
: where whe got Bette.  Any comments or suggestions?

Over the years I've found that as long as the cats aren't actually hurting each
other. Put them together and let them solve dominance issues one their own.

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