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Where will it stop?????

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jacquie0 - 26 Dec 2004 05:59 GMT
Sherry and Mary,

Here is a link that you might be interested in. When I saw it, it
appalled me to no end. If it's not bad enough that we have unwanted
animals in our world, now they feel that they have to clone them.

I hope that your Christmas was a good one.

"CAT"

http://www.theregister.com/2004/12/24/cloned_kitten_sold/
Amy Gray - 26 Dec 2004 15:49 GMT
>Sherry and Mary,
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>http://www.theregister.com/2004/12/24/cloned_kitten_sold/

I would agree with the following line:
The Humane Society and other pet advocacy groups say pet cloning is
wasteful, given the 3m to 4m pets destroyed every year in animal
shelters in the US.

Just think what you could accopmlish if you took that $50,000 and
gave it to your local shelter.
agent smith - 29 Dec 2004 19:20 GMT
sorry, i work hard for my money, only to let it go to a shelter that takes
in animals that IRRESPONSIBLE formet pet owners throw animals away too.
maybe if americans are subjected to enough of this, maybe theyll get off
their a$$es and do somehting? sigh, wouldnt that be nice.

/is an american

-agent smith

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Mary - 26 Dec 2004 18:20 GMT
> Sherry and Mary,
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> http://www.theregister.com/2004/12/24/cloned_kitten_sold/

This is appalling, Jacquie. You clearly have an understanding of the
problem and why it upsets some of us so much that the "itsy bitsy
cutesy wutesy WHOOPS" kitten crap is lost on us. Thanks.
Mimi Forsyth - 26 Dec 2004 20:48 GMT
There is no boundary of human vanity. "I am special, therefore I can squander a
huge sum of money on a cloned cat."

www.mimiforsyth.com
agent smith - 29 Dec 2004 19:21 GMT
nope, its called 'i worked hard for my money and will spend it as i see fit,
and if you have an issue with it you can go f yourself'. please stop being
jealous of other peoples' wealth. just because you have none is no reason to
get mad and tell other peopel how they can and cannot spend their hard
earned money. me thinks you need to go on a diet, quit hoarding cats, and
get a real job.

-agent smith

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Sherry - 27 Dec 2004 04:32 GMT
>> Sherry and Mary,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>problem and why it upsets some of us so much that the "itsy bitsy
>cutesy wutesy WHOOPS" kitten crap is lost on us. Thanks.

It's actually disturbing in so many ways it is difficult to separate them all.
I don't think cloning will have an impact re: displacing shelter cats for many
years, because the cost is out of reach for the majority of the population. The
$50, 000 is just plain obscene. But most disturbing is the fact that in order
to produce *one* kitten, there are many, many "gruesome" failures. I don't even
want to think about the testing procedures that were done to "perfect" the
practice. Second most disturbing is that cloning produces cats that are likely
to be unhealthy.

Sherry
jacquie0 - 27 Dec 2004 08:40 GMT
>>>Sherry and Mary,
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Sherry

Sherry and Mary,

For once we can agree on something. I too was concerned about the
numerous amount of cats that this proceedure was tried on before they
"got it right". It also reminded me of the different breeds of cats that
have "come onto the market" by breeders. Here too they have had to try
different types of cross-breeding to get the desired results, in their
endeavor to find "the perfect cat". What on earth happens to all of
their "failures"?????
Isn't it bad enough that we are already having to deal with cats (and
other animals) that have been used and abused? Now who knows how long it
will be before we will have to deal with the unfortunate ones that
"scientists" are creating. Although in some cases modern technology can
be a good thing, it sure scares the hell out of me when people try to
play God.
I can only see heartache occuring here.
Mike Rhino - 27 Dec 2004 05:55 GMT
> >>>Sherry and Mary,
> >>>
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> play God.
> I can only see heartache occuring here.

Scientists can now inject human genes into animals.  I wonder where that's
going to lead.
jacquie0 - 27 Dec 2004 08:59 GMT
>>>>>Sherry and Mary,
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 63 lines]
> Scientists can now inject human genes into animals.  I wonder where that's
> going to lead.

Who knows.....maybe the national enquirer will finally have a legitimate
claim when they say that they have found a cat woman. Personally I think
it is disgusting to play around with nature in such ways as cloning and
cross gene injecting.
agent smith - 29 Dec 2004 19:25 GMT
good for you! everyone is entitled to an opinion, but like a--holes, some
stink more than others *looks at you unfavorably*

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MaryL - 29 Dec 2004 19:20 GMT
<snip>
> I too was concerned about the numerous amount of cats that this proceedure
> was tried on before they "got it right". It also reminded me of the
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> God.
> I can only see heartache occuring here.

Here is a picture of my beautiful --and wonderful -- cat, Holly.  She is a
cross between Oriental shorthair and Persian.  The breeder was trying to
create a "new breed" and was going to destroy Holly simply because she was
the "wrong" color (black instead of the "desired" dusty gray).  Fortunately,
someone who works at a local pet supply store rescued her and then I adopted
her.  Wherever I am, I can be sure that Holly will be with me within just a
matter of minutes.  The idea that cats are somehow "disposable" is such an
abomination that I can hardly find the words to express it.
http://pic10.picturetrail.com/VOL320/476350/1916528/34609798.jpg

MaryL
agent smith - 29 Dec 2004 19:24 GMT
here we go, the 'playing god' argument. funny, were creating life from
EXISTING life, not a piece of dirt and a bit of wood, combined with some
holy breath. you stupid tards need to be shot and removed from the gene
pool.

-agent smith

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MaryL - 29 Dec 2004 19:14 GMT
>>> Sherry and Mary,
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> Sherry

It's even disturbing to think of the possible future for this kitten.  The
woman who had her cat cloned wants an identical cat.  What is she going to
do if the new kitten has behavioral traits that she doesn't like or if
doesn't "live up to" the standards she has set?

MaryL
agent smith - 29 Dec 2004 19:26 GMT
im more interested in having a cat that looks exactly like my big guy, not
in his personality. when you choose to adopt an animal, you accept it AS IS.
same with a clone. if it turns out different, oh well. you made the choice
and spent the money, so raise the animal. i have no issues taking on a cat
that only looks like my big guy. sadly not everyone thinks as i do.

-agent smith

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rpl - 30 Dec 2004 00:48 GMT
> im more interested in having a cat that looks exactly like my big guy, not
> in his personality. when you choose to adopt an animal, you accept it AS IS.
> same with a clone. if it turns out different, oh well. you made the choice
> and spent the money, so raise the animal. i have no issues taking on a cat
> that only looks like my big guy. sadly not everyone thinks as i do.

then you don't even need cloning, your local shelter probably has the
spittin' image sitting in a cage waiting for a new owner right now.
agent smith - 30 Dec 2004 06:57 GMT
i doubt it, my big guy has a neat coat, and thats what id really wanna keep.
to me, a shelter is nothing but an outlet for irresponsible pet owners to
dump unwanted pets. dont get me wrong, they do good things, but they only
fuel the fire to the bigger issue... irresponsible pet owners.

-agent smith

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Sherry - 30 Dec 2004 07:38 GMT
>i doubt it, my big guy has a neat coat, and thats what id really wanna keep.
>to me, a shelter is nothing but an outlet for irresponsible pet owners to
>dump unwanted pets. dont get me wrong, they do good things, but they only
>fuel the fire to the bigger issue... irresponsible pet owners.

That's why a shelter should never be simply in the business of warehousing
animals. They've got to get out in the public, educate people; lobby for
stricter animal abuse/spay neuter legislation, have an animal abuse team ready
to investigate and work with local law officials.
And you're right; there's a fine line between saving animals and just enabling
irresponsible people to bring you more litters. When someone comes in with a
box of kittens, you can't just take them without asking "Where's Momma?",
asking why Momma hasn't been spayed, and making arrangements to GET her spayed
if the person doesn't have the resources to do it themselves.  Sometimes it
works, and sometimes people get huffy. We take the kittens anyway. But if you
don't at least *try*, you are guaranteed another litter in six months from the
same person.

Sherry
agent smith - 30 Dec 2004 15:21 GMT
sadly, my apt complex has put up notations on peoples' doors stating that
there is an outlet to leave unwanted pets at. the idiots here (mostly
hispanic/mexican) seem to think that throwing an animal outside is solving
the issue. being a minority, i can say that minorities piss me off alot, in
regards to their ability to properly care for animals. ive had literally 15
or so cats come through my apt that i fostered then adopted.

-agent smith

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Amy Gray - 30 Dec 2004 15:58 GMT
>>i doubt it, my big guy has a neat coat, and thats what id really wanna keep.
>>to me, a shelter is nothing but an outlet for irresponsible pet owners to
>>dump unwanted pets. dont get me wrong, they do good things, but they only
>>fuel the fire to the bigger issue... irresponsible pet owners.
Except that if the shelter were not there then you know what would
happen?  Exactly what happens to some relatives I have in West
Virginia where unwanted pets are "left" in rural sections of the
state.

They've found more pets that way on their doorstep.  
Mary - 30 Dec 2004 15:53 GMT
"MaryL" <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote :

> It's even disturbing to think of the possible future for this kitten.  The
> woman who had her cat cloned wants an identical cat.  What is she going to
> do if the new kitten has behavioral traits that she doesn't like or if
> doesn't "live up to" the standards she has set?

It's "the living being as an object." Men used to get away with
treating women that way more than they do now. In the US.
In many countries such as India and Afghanistan and others
they still do treat women as objects.
dd - 30 Dec 2004 17:23 GMT
You have good points, but I also wonder whether it might be the case
that the person who is ready to write a check for $50,000 has had just
one cat in her life and thinks that there could never ever be another
kitty who is as wonderful as the one who died, so she is willing to do
everything she can to recapture her "lost love."

People in this NG seem to have (or have had) many kitties and
understand that each kitty is individual and special and wonderful in
his own way, and it is possible to love more than one cat in a
lifetime. The person who has only had one cat does not, perhaps,
understand this. (Actually, I know someone who believes this and
refuses to have another cat for that very reason.)

The person who is paying for cloning is very possibly setting herself
up for heartbreak in a few years if the cloned kitty dies, and I feel
sorry for the woman. I too wish that she would have adopted several
shelter kitties. She could have had years of companionship and delight
with healthy kitties who needed her and a good home, and now she is
missing out.  

> "MaryL" <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote :
> >
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> In many countries such as India and Afghanistan and others
> they still do treat women as objects.
Sherry - 31 Dec 2004 14:58 GMT
>It's even disturbing to think of the possible future for this kitten.  The
>woman who had her cat cloned wants an identical cat.  What is she going to
>do if the new kitten has behavioral traits that she doesn't like or if
>doesn't "live up to" the standards she has set?
>
>MaryL

Maybe she'll learn to accept it for what it is  and its own personality, and
learn that it's NOT her other cat. Which makes cloning even more stupid,
because that's what she would have done just getting a shelter cat who "looked"
like her old cat. And saved herself 50 grand and saved a life.
And if she's too hung up to do that, God help her. The phrase "more money than
sense" comes to mind doesn't it.

Sherry
Amy Gray - 31 Dec 2004 17:02 GMT
>Maybe she'll learn to accept it for what it is  and its own personality, and
>learn that it's NOT her other cat. Which makes cloning even more stupid,
>because that's what she would have done just getting a shelter cat who "looked"
>like her old cat. And saved herself 50 grand and saved a life.
>And if she's too hung up to do that, God help her. The phrase "more money than
>sense" comes to mind doesn't it.
What really puzzles me about a cases like this is why doesn't the
woman go down to the closest animal shelter and adopt one of those
cats?   So what if they look different than her previous cat.  They
are all desperately looking for homes.  They are all desperately
looking for love.  They are all desperately looking for some to
adopt them.   (And many are under a death sentence if that home
doesn't come very soon.)  

Every cat i've ever adopted bears absolutely no resemblance to
one of my prior cats.  I've seen no need for it.  Every cat is
different.  
agent smith - 29 Dec 2004 19:23 GMT
"> practice. Second most disturbing is that cloning produces cats that are
likely
> to be unhealthy.

ahem, do you have any PROOF of this? if not, kindly STFU! thx ^_^

-agent smith

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rpl - 30 Dec 2004 00:47 GMT
> "> practice. Second most disturbing is that cloning produces cats that are
> likely
>
>>to be unhealthy.
>
> ahem, do you have any PROOF of this? if not, kindly STFU! thx ^_^

do a little researhc on cloning; so far clones don't enjoy the same life
expectancy as the original.
agent smith - 30 Dec 2004 06:58 GMT
no. im not the one saying cloning causes health issues. this tard needs to
put up or stfu. by the sounds of it, the tard has stfu.

-agent smith

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Amy Gray - 30 Dec 2004 15:53 GMT
>> "> practice. Second most disturbing is that cloning produces cats that are
>> likely
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>do a little researhc on cloning; so far clones don't enjoy the same life
>expectancy as the original.
So let me get this straight.....someone will spend $50,000 to buy a
clone of their cat who will only live about half as long as the
original cat.  All this while MILLIONS of cats are put to sleep
because they are unwanted.   And these cats are alot cheaper and
live longer than the cloned cats.

Sounds like someone who has entirely too much money on their hands.

What a waste.
M.C. Mullen - 30 Dec 2004 04:49 GMT
| "> practice. Second most disturbing is that cloning produces cats that are
| likely
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
|
| -agent smith

Well, Dolly the sheep is a good example, she was not healthy, and as far as
I remember she's dead now.

Carola
Mary - 30 Dec 2004 15:51 GMT
> | "> practice. Second most disturbing is that cloning produces cats that are
> | likely
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Carola

True.
Sherry - 31 Dec 2004 14:54 GMT
>"> practice. Second most disturbing is that cloning produces cats that are
>likely
>> to be unhealthy.
>
>ahem, do you have any PROOF of this? if not, kindly STFU! thx ^_^

Not having been personally involved in cloning development, no, I can't offer
you specific studies or statistics. I am simply referring to the  information
in the link provided, which said that cloned cats are likely to suffer health
problems. Obviously you missed that part.
Sherry
Amy Gray - 31 Dec 2004 17:12 GMT
>Not having been personally involved in cloning development, no, I can't offer
>you specific studies or statistics. I am simply referring to the  information
>in the link provided, which said that cloned cats are likely to suffer health
>problems. Obviously you missed that part.
>Sherry
I would point out it's extremely early in the great cloning experiment
but the early indications are they have shorter
life span (about half?)  I would further add it may be many
years before we really understand and comprehend the full
drawbacks from Cloning.   At this point cloning is too
new a phenomenon.    

Maybe the ultimate cost of cloning will be in the unseen side effects,
researchers cloning a cat instead of doing something
needed badly like finding a cure for some disease.    

I would add it could be 10-30 years before we fully understand all
the aspects for cloning.    
Mike Z. Helm - 01 Jan 2005 01:01 GMT
On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 00:53:15 -0800, jacquie0 <jacquie0>

>Sherry and Mary,
>
>Here is a link that you might be interested in. When I saw it, it
>appalled me to no end. If it's not bad enough that we have unwanted
>animals in our world, now they feel that they have to clone them.

What makes you think it will stop?

>I hope that your Christmas was a good one.
>
>"CAT"
>
>http://www.theregister.com/2004/12/24/cloned_kitten_sold/
 
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