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At my wits end.....

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Shirley - 18 Dec 2003 17:33 GMT
Please has anyone any ideas on what to do with a five year old spayed
female that will not stop urinating on the carpeting and furniture?

We clean the litter once a day....change it twice a week
have tried sprays and powders....nothing...
Vet says no infections..

Husband wants to put her down.....we are moving into a new house in the
spring and he says no way can she go with us...my son and I love her...

Thank you for any help you can offer
Shirley
Dr. Flonkenstein - 18 Dec 2003 18:01 GMT
Being tired of lurking, on Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:33:25 -0500, Shirley
posted:

> Please has anyone any ideas on what to do with a five year old spayed
> female that will not stop urinating on the carpeting and furniture?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Thank you for any help you can offer

Divorce!!!!

> Shirley

Signature

mhm 27x12
smeeter #28
Usenet Valhalla Circle #19 & #21
CEO Alcatroll Labs Inc.

Shirley - 18 Dec 2003 19:53 GMT
> Being tired of lurking, on Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:33:25 -0500, Shirley
> posted:
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> Usenet Valhalla Circle #19 & #21
> CEO Alcatroll Labs Inc.

I have been impressed by your handiwork for a long time.....you might say that
your reputation precedes you....

I cannot divorce my best friend of 37 years....

I guess I have to look elsewhere for some genuine help....

Do you believe in Valhalla?
Dr. Flonkenstein - 18 Dec 2003 20:11 GMT
Being tired of lurking, on Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:53:29 -0500, Shirley
posted:

>> Being tired of lurking, on Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:33:25 -0500, Shirley
>> posted:
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Do you believe in Valhalla?

He has dinner with me every friday.

The cat is probrable frustrated for some reason, you should try to find
out why. Or maybe change the food, or the litter product?

Did she always did that, or, if not, since when. Try to figure out what
changed.

Signature

mhm 27x12
smeeter #28
Usenet Valhalla Circle #19 & #21
CEO Alcatroll Labs Inc.

Shirley - 18 Dec 2003 21:36 GMT
> Being tired of lurking, on Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:53:29 -0500, Shirley
> posted:
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
> Usenet Valhalla Circle #19 & #21
> CEO Alcatroll Labs Inc.

I tried changing the litter and that made her worse...and changing her food
made her stomach upset...

She is a one person cat and she loves just my son (she tolerates the rest of us
because we live with him....4 years ago we took in our grandkids and slowly
over the next few years she has gotten worse about where she goes.....we had an
idea this is what is bothering her....but the grandkids are now 15 and 14 and
have very little to do with her because she is not a friendly cat....

I guess I don't have many choices do I.... :o{
Dr. Flonkenstein - 19 Dec 2003 13:11 GMT
Being tired of lurking, on Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:36:27 -0500, Shirley
posted:

>> Being tired of lurking, on Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:53:29 -0500, Shirley
>> posted:
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
>
> I guess I don't have many choices do I.... :o{

Well, every cat is different. I never knew two cats that had the same
character. I have a very affectionate cat that is friendly with even
strangers that come to my house. In fact she come wining at my back door
since her former "master" was an old lady thas was brought to a senior
residence when everybody didn't care about her cat. I feel that the old
lady was constantly occupied with her because she follows me everywhere
where I go, even when I take a shower she sits on the border of the
bathtub to wait for me....

But I think a cat deservers as much respect as a person, and I think one
should take people for what they are and not for that what we wish they
should be.

Signature

mhm 27x12
smeeter #28
Usenet Valhalla Circle #19 & #21
CEO Alcatroll Labs Inc.

Not so quick - 19 Dec 2003 17:51 GMT
> Being tired of lurking, on Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:36:27 -0500, Shirley
> posted:
[quoted text clipped - 75 lines]
> should take people for what they are and not for that what we wish they
> should be.

One of our cats peed on the bed quite a lot, probably
once a week. She peed on me while was asleep and it
was a lot. Then she started pooping in our bed. We
got some water resistant material and made a bedspread
out of it. She slept next to my wife almost every
night and was a very special cat. We named her after
a bird that we had rescued because she was a rescue
cat. But when she ran on the 4th of July, the night of
the fireworks, I can't say that I... well I don't miss the
poop in the bed. (we did try to keep her in but couldn't
find her the day of the 4th and have since put in a cat-
proof fence, so far...) So I have some sympathy for
the guy who doesn't want his new house sprayed.

but to talk about putting the cat down is absolutely
cruel, even as a passing thought, it shouldn't even be
verbalized to one's family. If something happened to
that cat, the kids would never forgive the dad, even
if he never meant what he said, much less did anything.

When we were kids our boxer had a litter of puppies.
My dad said that the white one had to be destroyed
because it was a 'throwback' and that was what the
breeders did. We talked him out of it but when the
puppy died, it was a question mark and a doubt that
was there for a long long time.
AceMan - 18 Dec 2003 18:16 GMT
>Please has anyone any ideas on what to do with a five year old spayed
>female that will not stop urinating on the carpeting and furniture?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>Thank you for any help you can offer
>Shirley

Get rid of your husband!      :)
Torllski XMas Balls - 18 Dec 2003 19:37 GMT
Shirley flushed and wrote :

>Please has anyone any ideas on what to do with a five year old spayed
>female that will not stop urinating on the carpeting and furniture?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>Thank you for any help you can offer
>Shirley

Put your hubby down.
Psot binaries of your hooterz.
If your pussy and I get along, I'll help you move.
:-)
Shirley - 18 Dec 2003 23:43 GMT
> Shirley flushed and wrote :
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> If your pussy and I get along, I'll help you move.
> :-)

I don't psot anymore.... gave it up for lent...

If I through hubby out and move....you'll be the last to know... :o}
Torllski Yuletide Logs - 19 Dec 2003 14:44 GMT
Shirley flushed and wrote :

>> Shirley flushed and wrote :
>>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
>I don't psot anymore.... gave it up for lent...

That's the problem with you catlicks, no time for fun.

>If I through hubby out and move....you'll be the last to know... :o}

Fried egg saggy titties eh hon?  Ya know they gotz doctors that can
fix them things.
:-)
Not so quick - 18 Dec 2003 20:41 GMT
> Please has anyone any ideas on what to do with a five year old spayed
> female that will not stop urinating on the carpeting and furniture?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Thank you for any help you can offer
> Shirley

How long has she been doing this?
Shirley - 18 Dec 2003 23:42 GMT
> > Please has anyone any ideas on what to do with a five year old spayed
> > female that will not stop urinating on the carpeting and furniture?
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> How long has she been doing this?

She's gotten worse over the last few years....she does not do this all
of the
time and when she does it is usually during the night....
Nan - 19 Dec 2003 15:13 GMT
>She's gotten worse over the last few years....she does not do this all
>of the
>time and when she does it is usually during the night....

Would it be possible to put her in a cage at night, or pen her up in a
bathroom with a litter box.  It sounds to me as though this is a
behavior problem since the vet said there wasn't any physical
problems.  She's probably lonely at night, and figures this is one way
to get attention, as in "I'll show them!  How dare they go to bed and
leave me alone."

Nan
Not so quick - 19 Dec 2003 17:59 GMT
> >She's gotten worse over the last few years....she does not do this all
> >of the
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Nan

Never thought of that. That is very smart.
In fact, I've never seen anyone come up
with that explanation.
Not so quick - 19 Dec 2003 17:57 GMT
> > > Please has anyone any ideas on what to do with a five year old spayed
> > > female that will not stop urinating on the carpeting and furniture?
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> of the
> time and when she does it is usually during the night....

Isn't there some place you can keep her at night?
We have a garage for the cats that are fighting with
each other that particular day. One goes in the garage
with the bed and the cat box and the huge mess to hide
in. We also put in tile, not a stitch of carpet in the house
and when I saw the stains from spilled drinks and who
knows what else, I vowed never to have carpet again,
even though I can't putt on tile. Maybe you could manage
a wood floor.. The cats love to bat things around on the
smooth surface and even slide on it sometimes, although
not as much as when it was first installed.

Tile is very easy to clean and it's easy to spray with Frabreeze
and some sort of orange/citrus thing would keep them away.

Good luck.
Wendy - 20 Dec 2003 20:11 GMT
If it's mostly at night and if nothing else works you could always confine
her in a room with water and her box. We had to do that with our arthritic
cat because she wasn't leaving our bedroom during the night to go to the
box. We set her up in the bathroom (no rugs and is actually the warmest room
at night). She always used her box in there.

Have you tried Cat Attract Kitty Litter? Some people have said they had
success using it.

Not so quick wrote:

> > Please has anyone any ideas on what to do with a five year old spayed
> > female that will not stop urinating on the carpeting and furniture?
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> How long has she been doing this?

She's gotten worse over the last few years....she does not do this all
of the
time and when she does it is usually during the night....
Gee - 19 Dec 2003 03:02 GMT
> Please has anyone any ideas on what to do with a five year old spayed
> female that will not stop urinating on the carpeting and furniture?

> Husband wants to put her down.....we are moving into a new house in the
> spring and he says no way can she go with us...my son and I love her...
>
> Shirley

I must say Shirley, NOBODY could stand between me and my cats, no matter how
much I love them.

If they loved you, they would never make you part from something you love.
Your husband is being selfish. Sorry, but it's true,  but he is not thinking
about yours, your son's or your cat's feelings. Only his. Hence most of the
replies you received here, so don;t be angered by the replies from people
here, perhaps you ought to aim your anger where it is suppose to go: your
husband and  "best friend". Best friends don;t blackmail or think only about
their own feelings.

As for weeing yes I have some good suggestions, which I keep posting here:

1. Firstly: take her to the vets to rule out any medical reasons. I think
you said you;ve done that.

2. Secondly, wash that carpet and furniture where she weed thoroughly with a
biological washing powder, or some specialised shampoo that contains enzymes
which would munch up the parts of urine. We are talking serious scrubbing
here, because even though we can;t smell it, cats, believe, can. After this
has been done, take vinegar (in colour matching your carpet )- probably
clear malt one would be the best. Yes that stinks, but it works wonders as
cats hate that smell. I am not certain if it neutralises the urine in some
way as well or not, but you must
definitely put the vinegar on the spot. If possible let the carpet dry.
Perhaps speed up drying with some hairdryer treatment. Lastly, when dry, you
could use some Downy fabric conditioner to kill any residual smell left.
This one is for you really.

3a. Now, buy/borrow another litter trey and place it in that spot. Or if
there is a few spots, try and get some more trays, or some old dishes and
make pretend trays. it's only temporary.

3b. OR, get a dish with dry food and place it on that spot/spots. Cats are
clean
animals and will not urinate near their food. Even wipe the carpet with some
dry food to gain the smell of food. I know this works as my friends done it
on their cat/carpet.

Whichever method is more suitable for the location really.

4. make sure the regular tray is kept clean as some cats like my Shadow
will rather hold it in for a day/do it elsewhere, then do it in -what they
consider- dirty tray. You may think changing litter twice a week is good
enough. It may not be for your cat. She may like clean tray EVERY time she
goes wee/poo. We keep forgetting that just because WE can;t smell something,
it doesn;t mean that cat can;t either ! Their sense of smell is like zillion
times stronger then ours,and some cats are simply fussy about litter.
Perhaps put in less litter in tray/s and change it daily, for a while, just
to see if there is a difference.

You will not like what I will tell you now Shirley, and I am sorry, but I do
have to say this and anyone else who reads this. I find funny how people
brand cat/dog as "not friendly" when it comes to kids. Cat is never not
friendly. Kids are the ones who are too active, too noisy, too uncaring, too
ruff, too scary, too careless. No disrespect. This are unfortunately the
facts. Which is why we spend 20 years teaching them to behave better. Kids
only develop themselves and better habits later. But in the meantime they
will stress the hec# out of any pet. NEVER blame a cat for something kids
do. Never blame a dog for biting a kid/human. Pets are your responsibility,
and if you don;t look after them who will? There is always a good reason why
people advise never to leave the kids with pets unsupervised: it is because
kids can provoke and anger the animal which in return may scratch or bite in
SELF-DEFENCE. Pet problem is ALWAYS human fault. So no your cat is not NOT
FRIENDLY. She has just been stressed too much by the kids/humans. Most
likely yes, this is the reason for her weeing all over. She was trying to
show you her displease with the situations. I guess your grandkids have
stressed her out enough in the past to make her develop bad habits. And
after years of not dealing with this habit correctly and possibly not
teaching the kids the adequate behaviour, respect and responsibilities when
it comes to pets, it will now take a while to get rid of the habits. But you
can;t be the only one to work on her. You must speak to your family and
grandkids. Your husbands attitude will be very unhelpful if he continues to
blackmail you this way. My father did it to me once, telling me to get rid
of my first pet guinea pig: I furiously told him it's either both of us
staying or both of us moving out. And I would;ve done it. He had to back
down. His request was appalling and he quickly realised he had not thought
this through. Pet means a member of family, a "baby" you should adore and
cherish. Pets are not just for X-mas. You married your hubby for better or
worse. You take on a pet for better or worse.

I do hope you have taken this reply as a learning step, rather then just get
angry at me and others. I have learned a helluva lot in this group about
cats, and encountered some replies I wasn;t too pleased about, but after
thinking about it, I realised that most people here have a good reason why
they are saying something, and also years of experience and love for cats.
I am no genius, but I do love my cats, and animals in general, and have made
sure I learned about them and the way THEY think as much as possible. I
think anyone owning a cat(or for that matter a child) should do the same.
Far too many people give birth to a kid not knowing an inch of what that
will entail(this is obviously a general comment Shirley not aimed at you).
This in return produces unruly people, often criminals, or very unhappy
people. There really should be a test to pass to own a kid/pet! Just MHO.

Good luck. And please if your husband wants to get rid of her, and you agree
with him, do not put her down. Take her to animal shelter nearby, and give
her a chance of a better life with another family who will cherish her. Put
her feelings first, do not let her die because of selfishness of one man.

Gee
-L. - 19 Dec 2003 11:49 GMT
> Please has anyone any ideas on what to do with a five year old spayed
> female that will not stop urinating on the carpeting and furniture?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Husband wants to put her down....

Absolutley do not euthanize this cat.  Take her to your local humane
society if you have to, but do not kill her without giving her a
chance at being rehomed.

>we are moving into a new house in the
> spring and he says no way can she go with us...

WADR, he sounds like a real prick.

>my son and I love her...
>
> Thank you for any help you can offer
> Shirley

You have to figure out WHY the cat is doing this, and correct it.  

Is the cat declawed?  If so, the cat may be peeing out of frustration.
Se my advice below for Elavil.

Is the cat peeing in the same places all the time?  If so, she may be
trying to mask an odor.

How old is the litter box?  If it is more than a year old, replace it.
Plastics retain smells and after a while, some cats "go off' their
litter boxes because they stink to them (remember cats have a much
more sensitive sense of smell than we do.)

Have you tried Elavil (available from your vet)?  Many cases of
UTD/inappropriate elimination in cats are because of stress- Elavil
will relieve the stress and calm the cat.  Feliaway is another product
you can try to alleviate stress.

Is your husband hostile toward the cat?  If so, this will make the
problem worse.  Stressed cats pee inappropriately.

You need to have a serious talk with your husband.  If you love your
cat, and he actually loves you, he needs to quit blackmailing you and
threatening to kill the cat.  That's a really, really horrible thing
to threaten you and your son with.

-L.
Shirley - 19 Dec 2003 21:50 GMT
> > Please has anyone any ideas on what to do with a five year old spayed
> > female that will not stop urinating on the carpeting and furniture?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> society if you have to, but do not kill her without giving her a
> chance at being rehomed.

That's why I am here because I can't do either of them....

> >we are moving into a new house in the
> > spring and he says no way can she go with us...
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Is the cat declawed?  If so, the cat may be peeing out of frustration.
>  Se my advice below for Elavil.

She is declawed....something I am still regretting I did...

> Is the cat peeing in the same places all the time?  If so, she may be
> trying to mask an odor.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> litter boxes because they stink to them (remember cats have a much
> more sensitive sense of smell than we do.)

It is just short of a year right now...we are picking up a new one in the morning....

> Have you tried Elavil (available from your vet)?  Many cases of
> UTD/inappropriate elimination in cats are because of stress- Elavil
> will relieve the stress and calm the cat.  Feliaway is another product
> you can try to alleviate stress.

Never heard of it, but will ask vet when I get a new litter box....they are in the same
store...

> Is your husband hostile toward the cat?  If so, this will make the
> problem worse.  Stressed cats pee inappropriately.

Actually no he has been very gentle and kind to the cat....not easy for a guy suffering from
allergies....Miss Sabrina is a one person cat...if we try to get close to her she will cuff at
us or try and nip us...kind of like a Mother cat would her kittens. She is my son's cat....she
will sit at the back door or on the microwave and look out the window meowing for him until he
pulls in the driveway. She even stands up on her back legs so it easier for him to pick her up
and she cleans his arms every night ......she does keep me company when i am here alone. She
will come and lay down by my chair and that is as close as I can get to her...unless she needs
combing. Then she comes to me....

We think she is stressed from the grandchildren...she does not like kids at all....

> You need to have a serious talk with your husband.  If you love your
> cat, and he actually loves you, he needs to quit blackmailing you and
> threatening to kill the cat.  That's a really, really horrible thing
> to threaten you and your son with.
>
> -L.
Not so quick - 20 Dec 2003 08:31 GMT
> > > Please has anyone any ideas on what to do with a five year old spayed
> > > female that will not stop urinating on the carpeting and furniture?
[quoted text clipped - 66 lines]
> >
> > -L.

It must hurt to have so much pressure on you.
I mean, it sounds like such a no win situation.
It probably feels like you might lose a close friend
and you can't think of anything to do about it,
for your son especially.
One Salubri - 20 Dec 2003 16:04 GMT
>She is declawed....something I am still regretting I did...

That may be a big part of your problem right there. Many declawed cats have
particularly sensitive paws and they find commercial cat litter very painful to
step in. Consider how enthusiastic you'd be about going to the bathroom if you
had to sit on a spiked toilet seat every time.

In addition to confining her and retraining her to use the box, while cleaning
ALL her previous pee areas with an enzymatic cleaner such as Nature's Miracle,
try putting shredded newspaper in the litterbox instead of commercial cat
litter. Cats generally dislike any change, including litter changes, but this
may be one she finds a relief.

I would strongly encourage your husband to reconsider his stop-it-or-die
attitude. When children have bedwetting problems, we don't kill them. The cat
is likewise a child, in essence--dependent on you, trusting in you, her life
and well-being utterly in your hands. A happy and healthy cat will naturally
use the litterbox. That she has an ongoing resistance to it indicates a
problem, and it's up to your and your husband to figure out what that problem
is, solve it as best you can, and live with the rest. Anything less than that
is more than simply shirking responsibility as a pet owner--it's betrayal.

Good luck.
Not so quick - 20 Dec 2003 23:43 GMT
> >She is declawed....something I am still regretting I did...
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Good luck.

Isn't it just totally wrong that someone can take a
healthy pet to a vet and have them killed... There
should be a law that the vet sends them to a no kill
shelter if possible or to a regular one.
-L. - 20 Dec 2003 17:57 GMT
> > > Please has anyone any ideas on what to do with a five year old spayed
> > > female that will not stop urinating on the carpeting and furniture?
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> She is declawed....something I am still regretting I did...

Well, this is most likely the root of the problem (or part of it).
Cats achieve a sense of satisfaction from clawing - it is a stress
reliever.  When a cat is declawed, she cannot get this relief.  She
then acts out her frustration in any way she can - usually by
urinating inappropriately.  How long after declawing did this behavior
manifest?  Was the cat declawed as an adult?  Answers to these
questions can help define whether this is declawing-related behavior.

> > Is the cat peeing in the same places all the time?  If so, she may be
> > trying to mask an odor.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> It is just short of a year right now...we are picking up a new one in the morning....

Excellent.  It may make a difference.

> > Have you tried Elavil (available from your vet)?  Many cases of
> > UTD/inappropriate elimination in cats are because of stress- Elavil
> > will relieve the stress and calm the cat.  Feliaway is another product
> > you can try to alleviate stress.
>
> Never heard of it, but will ask vet when I get a new litter box....they are >in the same store...

If it is declawing-related inappropriate elimination, Elavil might
help.  BTW, your vet will *never* admit that the declawing has
contributed to this problem.  Vets make money from the procedure so
will never admit that it causes any problems.  But be assured that
those of us who do cat rescue and rehabilitation can confirm that
declawing is a culprit in many of these cases.

> > Is your husband hostile toward the cat?  If so, this will make the
> > problem worse.  Stressed cats pee inappropriately.
>
> Actually no he has been very gentle and kind to the cat....not easy for a guy suffering from
> allergies....

Oh, that is good to hear.  I was a bit worried from your previous
description of him.  I'm sorry I was so harsh in regard to him, but we
see it so many times - guys being mean when the cat isn't well.

>Miss Sabrina is a one person cat...if we try to get close to her she
will cuff >at
> us or try and nip us...kind of like a Mother cat would her kittens.

Again, did this behavior start after the declawing?  Declawed cats
often become defensive and agressive.  I'm mainly asking to confirm
the diagnosis.

>She is my son's cat....she
> will sit at the back door or on the microwave and look out the window meowing for him until he
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> We think she is stressed from the grandchildren...she does not like kids at all....

THAT is a biggie.  If there are stresses in the household, this can
trigger inappropriate elimination.  Again, the Elavil might make a
difference.  Also, buy the Feliaway diffuser - you can get it at
PetCo.  It costs about $30.  It may help as well.  Keep the kids away
from her as much as possible.  Sequester her in her own room with a
litter box, food and water when they are there - assuming they don't
live with you.  Did this behavior start when the GC started coming
around?  Again, I'm just trying to pinpoint a trigger to the behavior.

Best luck to you, and let us know how she does.  If you need or want
to e-mail me privately, my address is primoturtle (at) yahoo (dot)
com.  I know you are heartbroken and trying to save your sweet cat.  I
feel for you!

-L.
-L. - 21 Dec 2003 01:33 GMT
> > > Please has anyone any ideas on what to do with a five year old spayed
> > > female that will not stop urinating on the carpeting and furniture?
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> That's why I am here because I can't do either of them....

Oh, one thing I forgot to mention is to have the vet x-ray her paws
for regrowth of the declaws.  Sometimes pain in the feet will cause
inappropriate elimination.

-L.
 
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