UH OOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, YOU'VE DONE IT NOW!! Don't mention the
word 'discipline' in this group, LOL!

/me sits back and gets ready for the flame show about to unleash, since
nearly every cat owner here is a f.cking idiot, and thinks you shouldn't
have a cat if you are going to let it outside or 'discipline' it.

I've never known a cat that responded to swats.  Dogs yes, cats no.
They just end up associating your hand with something bad and don't
seem to connect it to the event.  Most training experts (which I am  not)
avoid that type of discipline for that very reason.
Water works best if they don't know where it came from.  If they see you
squirt them than again the association is with you, not the event.
I train my cat the way tiger trainers train their animals...trust me,..they
don't hit <G>.  If she jumps up where she isn't supposed to be
I utter a loud "bad" and set her down..then I ignore her for a bit.
The biting depends on when they bite.  Are you playing?  Does he just bite
for no reason?  Keep a toy handy and when he tries to bite you, replace
your hand, foot, whatever with the toy.  Realize that 12 weeks is just
a baby.  He is learning right now but it takes a bit of time.

That doesn't sound like enough food for a growing kitten.  Vet would know
best but personally I would start feeding him more...way more.

duskb@earthlink.net  (duskb)

It's, uh, noted that you - at the very least - came into a cat newsgroup for
advice. Since you have a computer and the ability to navigate, why not search
the Net for webpages that ofter (tons and tons) of advice on what to do/not to
do in reference to raising a cat. Get to know typical/non-typical behavior in
cats. Obviously, you didn't buy a pillow..you rescued a cat..  

I wouldn't hit the cat.  That'll teach him to fear you and hate your guts. I'll
let others here continue with their advice.

First of all, hitting a cat and squirting them does nothing to train
them, as you have found out empirically.  All it does is make them
distrust you.  Your cat is doing these behaviors for a reason - either
he is bored, is playing or is wanting attention.  You have to
understand WHY he is doing what he does, and then redirect the
behavior.  Former-feral cats (well, and all cats, really)  are
somewhat like wild animals - they are still quite wild in response -
they act instinctively for the most part.

Give him a lot of interactive toys that he can play with - with or
without you (CatDancer and TurboMouse are essential).  Get him a
scratching/climbing TREE where he can climb and scratch appropriately.
When does he bite?  Is it during play?  This is normal behavior.  Is
it when you are petting him?  If so, you are over stimulating him, so
QUIT petting him before he gets to the point of biting.  If you want
him out of the trash, put it where he cannot get to it.  To keep him
off the counters (or wherever), there are a number of things you can
do (Google "cat" and "countertops" in rec.pets.cats.health+behav).  If
he bothers you while you eat, put him in another room until you are
done eating.  You have to remember that cats are essentially like 18
month-old toddler children - they have no control and don't understand
what you are trying to get them to do, and they are persistent.  You
cannot blame them when they do not resond to your wishes.  They simply
speak a different language.

That is not enough food.  A cat should be free-fed dry chow as much as
he wants to eat.  Wet food is better, as it supplies water, which can
prevent urinary tract disease.  An ideal situation would be 3 oz of
wet food AM and PM, with dry chow available all day long.

Well, despite what the vet said, you cat is exhibiting signs
(behavior) of starvation.  His "ideal" weight may be much heavier than
some arbitrary weight the vet *thinks* he should weigh.  Some cats are
naturally more heavy than others.  Also, he is still a kitten and
growing - he should have access to all the food he wants to eat.

Nope - he is too hungry before he was fed.  Too much acid in his
stomach will make him barf his food.  Just try leaving a bowl of food
out all the time, and his behaviors will eventually stop.  Since he
thinks he was starved, he may continue to gorge and barf for a week or
so, but soon it will stop and he will eat normally - cats
self-regulate food when they are free-fed.  You have to keep reminding
yourself that this was a feral cat - they often have the mentality
that the next meal is not coming, so will eat as much as they can.
You have to retrain him.  Try free-feeding for a month and see how he
does.  For a reference point, my cat, who is 12 years old and healthy,
eats about a cup of dry chow every day, as well as 6 oz. of canned
food.  he ate more when he was younger.  Also, the higher-quality of
the food, the less they will need/want to eat.  Cheaper foods have
fillers and less protein.  So cats have to eat more to get what they
need.  Better foods are more dense with protein and nutrition. Better
foods also cause less stool, and stool that is less stinky.

Cats are not conniving, manipulative creatures.  They are creatures of
instinct and habit.

With all due respect, yes.

You are welcome.  I hope you will take what I have posted to heart.
With a little understanding, you and you cat can both be much happier.
Where did you get this cat?  Was it from a feral rescue group?  If so
they can help you in understanding and coping with his behavior, as
well, as can your local humane society.

Good luck to you and your maramalade buddy.  Orange cats are *the
best*.

-L.

I can understand your frustration in trying to train your cat to obey
you, but, after all, he IS a cat.  Cats are notorious for wanting to
do their own thing.  Cats are a lot like toddlers, they just do not
understand that their behavior is unacceptable.  My cats know they
aren't supposed to get on the countertops, table, etc., but they do it
just the same, and jump down when they hear me coming.

Spraying a cat with water works with some cats, with others it just
makes them sneaky.  I wouldn't swat a cat.  They really don't
understand why they've been swatted, and it just makes them resentful.
I've found that a time-out in their room works as well as anything.

1/2 - 3/4 cup of dry food doesn't sound like enough for a growing
kitten, and he is still a kitten.  I have 2 inside cats and feed 7
feral cats.  The inside cats share a can of wet food every morning and
have dry food available all day for grazing.  The ferals get 8 cups of
dry food every morning plus all the mice that they catch.  

Nan

I think young cats get into stuff largely out of curiosity. If they don't
find anything interesting they will quickly give up exploring that area. Put
your trash cans up or get the kind that have lids the cat can't get into.
There is frequently crunchy paper in trash that they love to play with. They
also seem to want to go anywhere they haven't already been. Many times once
they explore the area and find it not particularly interesting that will be
the end of it.

Put the him in another room when you eat. We had to do this with one of our
cats as she was such a beggar. She gave up on it eventually and now turns
her nose up at people food for the most part. She will still steal a cheese
cracker if the dh leaves them where she can get to them tho.

Most of the annoying kitten stuff pretty much takes care of itself with
time. Consider it "baby proofing" for a really mobile kid. If you don't want
kitty to get into it put it away for a while.

Instead of swatting the cat say no and give him a time out in the bathroom.
Same thing goes when he bites. Say no and ouch and put him down. They are
only playing and need to learn how much you'll tolerate.

Like another person said. Get the cat toys. The best investiment I've ever
made was the cat tree. They love it and it's an acceptable place for them to
get high up. It wears out my little one (4 mos) so I actually get some sleep
at night. :o)

Hello all:
We got a beautiful orange cat in Sept. He was 12 weeks old at the time
and was rescued as a ferile cat. We keep him strictly indoors.

I have been trying to discipline him when he does bad (climbs on the
table, digs in the trash, jumps on our chairs while we eat, bites,
etc). Usually I spray him with water when I catch him in the act.
Sometimes I give him a good swat and put him in his "room" (bathroom).
I swear sometimes he does it just to be spiteful, like he knows what
he is doing is wrong but he does it anyways. Then he usually hides in
the corner till my anger subsides. I feel bad for being so hard on him
but I need to educate him.

I want to leave a lasting impression on him without hurting him that
we wont accept certain types of behavior. I will give him ample
latitude but we need him to know what is wrong. What have the
"experts" learned in teaching cats boundaries?

Also we feed him about 1/2 - 3/4 cup a day of dry food. He acts like
he is starving (meows constantly, scarfs his food, the aformentioned
problems) but when we had his check up last month the vet said he was
at a healthy weight. This week he even puked up two meals worth of
food on our carpet making me think we are overfeeding him. Is lack of
food making him act this way (or is it his plan to make me think
that?)

I dont get it....whats the deal with this freak? Am I the one who
needs educating?

Thank you in advance,

Please just remain calm and lift him gently and lock him out.
He may get sensible when he grows up. All kittens *are* crazy?

Love is the answer... (honestly).

Do you feed him twice a day? That helps. Does he get wet food at all?
That helps too.

Do you want an *honest* answer?

You're welcome :-)

Carola

We are only talking a cat here aren't we?

Well no wonder the poor thing is acting like he is starving, he IS starving.
We have 3 cats and none of them ever scarf around for food.  They have
always fresh water, cold milk, fresh dry biscuits, and wet food @ 3 times a
day.