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Cat Forum / General Topics / February 2004Question on Declawing...
Hey folks... I'm hoping to start a bit of a discussion on declawing and get some education for myself. Please note that I do NOT own a cat, and have no plans to get one at any point in the future. While I do like cats a great deal, many of my family members are extremely allergic to cats and my wife is not a huge cat person. It's unlikely we will ever have a pet cat. All this is to say that I am NOT talking about any cat in specific, nor is any cat in imminant danger of a declawing. I point this out because I do NOT want any emotional response saying how evil of a person I am for even considering declawing. Nor do I want alternatives to declawing. There is no reason for me to need alternatives as there is no cat! Okay, so here's my question: I understand that declawing involves the removal of the "finger" of the cat up to the first knuckle. I understand that this takes away the defenses of an "outdoor" cat, but this would not make a difference for an indoor cat, save if it were to some how get out of the house. Now, for those who are philosophically opposed to this treatment, I gather from many of the posts I've read here that it's considered abusive to the cats... it's both painful as well as disfiguring. But what I wonder is if those of you who are opposed to declawing are also opposed to neutering or spaying? Isn't that also painful as well as disfiguring to the cat? For those who find one acceptable, but not the other, why? What is different between the two? Remember, this is a philosophical question only! No cat is endanger of being declawed. Please give me a logical response, not an emotional one! Chris easy answer. even among humans, vesectomies and tubal lygastions (sp?) are common and done often w/o pain and disfigurement. Its one and only purpose is to prevent pregnancy as in animals (not to mention it lowers their sexual frustration) But humans DONT get their fingers chopped off at the knuckle WHICH would be disfiguring.... AFA cats go...all three of mine are strictly indoors. But twice I have had two of them zoom past me at the door and temporarily get out. THANK GOD they werent looking to run but just explore. and considering the fires in the So. Cali area, its easy to imagine a cat getting out in shear fear and panic. Try thinking at a level that isnt so one-dimentional. Its really not that hard > Hey folks... I'm hoping to start a bit of a discussion > on declawing and get some education for myself. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Chris > easy answer. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > But humans DONT get their fingers chopped off at the knuckle WHICH would > be disfiguring.... !!!! AMEN !!!! Mmmmh, A vasectomy is not castration. It does not 'take away the performance' to quote the Bard. Neutered cats lack (most of) their libido, not so vasectomised men. This raises the question why don't they do real vasectomy for cats (at least AFAIK they don't here in Belgium) ? I think Chris has a point, but nevertheless declawing is appalling, it means you like your furniture more than your cat, and the comparison with chopping of your fingers is correct. Think twice before you buy a sofa. sf > easy answer. > [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > > > Chris I'm sorry I cannot agree with you about declawing you cat.I personally think this is a sad thing to do.There claw's are there defense.Get them to use a scratch board,whenever you catch them clawing you have to be persistent but it works. Kit Good for you Kit, Removing a cat's craws is like cutting off a human's fingers at the first knuckle - you couldn't even pickup a set of keys after that. My niece had her cat declawed to save her new couch. One day someone knocked at the door, she opened it for just a second. She felt a breeze going by her leg - it was her cat leaving town. Being homeless and lost outdoors isn't even right for humans little less defenseless animals. William Berry - Author of: "Do You Hear The Cat Voices Singing?" ISBN# 1-59113-445-5 > I'm sorry I cannot agree with you about declawing you cat.I personally think > this is a sad thing to do.There claw's are there defense.Get them to use a > scratch board,whenever you catch them clawing you have to be persistent but > it works. > Kit "William Berry" genseng@earthlink.net writes >My niece had >her cat declawed to save her new couch. One day someone knocked at the door, >she opened it for just a second. She felt a breeze going by her leg - it was >her cat leaving town. I want to ask ALL the people who have (declawed) cats who live in houses? Since I live on the 4th floor of an apartment, I don't worry...but all of those who do live in houses...don't you have a concern that your cat WILL dash outside? Common sense would alert you to NOT open the door unless your cat is blocked from the outside...unless he/she is trained to stay in the house! I have 2 indoor cats. Both were declawed (front only of course) at about 5 mos old, the same time they were fixed. Both cats are very loving cats and it has not effected them in any way. Being totally indoor cats they have never even tried to run outside at anytime. I could leave the door open unattended for a few minutes and not have to worry about it. If your cat has ever been an outside cat and knows what's out there, then yes they would attempt to escape. Debbie >"William Berry" genseng@earthlink.net >writes [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Common sense would alert you to NOT open the door unless your cat is blocked >from the outside...unless he/she is trained to stay in the house! Don't count on your inside cats never getting curious and walking out the door. Every one of my inside cats has taken a stroll outside at one time or another and it's always when I least expect it. They can ignore open doors for years and then one day decide to see how the other half lives. Wendy I have 2 indoor cats. Both were declawed (front only of course) at about 5 mos old, the same time they were fixed. Both cats are very loving cats and it has not effected them in any way. Being totally indoor cats they have never even tried to run outside at anytime. I could leave the door open unattended for a few minutes and not have to worry about it. If your cat has ever been an outside cat and knows what's out there, then yes they would attempt to escape. Debbie >"William Berry" genseng@earthlink.net >writes [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Common sense would alert you to NOT open the door unless your cat is blocked >from the outside...unless he/she is trained to stay in the house! "Wendy" wendypart@nospam.com writes >Don't count on your inside cats never getting curious and walking out the >door. Every one of my inside cats has taken a stroll outside at one time or >another and it's always when I least expect it. They can ignore open doors >for years and then one day decide to see how the other half lives. Right! That's why extra precaution MUST be taken before one opens the door! If I had to decide between having a declawed cat (which we rescued from the shelter) or no cat at all or a fish <uhg>, I'd go with a fish. So, which is worse: declawed house cat that isn't allowed outside, or ethaniasia? By the way, we've had declawed cats before and on rare occassions they have gotten outside. ...and you know what?...they lived! Being a declawed cat outside isn't instant death. I've heard of declawed cats living outside on a regular basis which I agree is unfair to the cat, but for a house cat, I can't see a problem. Oh, and last I checked, my cat didn't need to pick up keys...or anything else, ...and was more than self-sufficient with no claws. ------- > Good for you Kit, > Removing a cat's craws is like cutting off a human's fingers at the first [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > it works. > > Kit > If I had to decide between having a declawed cat (which we rescued from the > shelter) or no cat at all or a fish <uhg>, I'd go with a fish. So, which > is worse: declawed house cat that isn't allowed outside, or ethaniasia? Why would someone have to choose between the two? > By the way, we've had declawed cats before and on rare occassions they have > gotten outside. ...and you know what?...they lived! Being a declawed cat > outside isn't instant death. I've heard of declawed cats living outside on > a regular basis which I agree is unfair to the cat, but for a house cat, I > can't see a problem. Of course they can, but they are in more danger than if they were to have all of their digits. Claws are used for climbing (avoiding predators) and self defense. > Oh, and last I checked, my cat didn't need to pick up keys...or anything > else, ...and was more than self-sufficient with no claws. And you don't really need your pinky fingers, your spleen, or your apendictis..so why not just have them removed? Oh...and your earlobes don't do anything but hold your earing so cut that off too. The point isn't that they need their claws to survive, the point is the only reason to have your cat declawed is if you are too lazy to train it not to scratch the furniture, too cheap to buy it a scratching post, and so shallow you prize your things over your pets. Declawing is not an extreme manicure, it's amputation. It's totally unecessary, does not improve the cats life (the opposite in fact) and is rather selfish. I don't mean that in a judging way, there are things that I am selfish about but I try not to inflict that selfishness on others. Perhaps you shouldn't own cats? AG >> If I had to decide between having a declawed cat (which we rescued from >the [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > >AG Most likely you are home all day to follow your cat around and watch everything it does. Most people are not. > prize your things over your pets DUH, I don't go out and spend $5000 on furniture to train my cat on. > I don't mean that in a judging way >I try not to inflict that selfishness on others Yes you do. You want everyone to side with you and only with you. Your always CORRECT and everyone else is completely WRONG >DUH, I don't go out and spend $5000 on furniture to train my cat on. > ^^^^ That is a totally stupid thing to say. You go out and pay $10-$20 (or however much scratching posts cost over there) to train your cat on. ^^^^ Hint: TRAIN was the secret word in both your statement AND mine! ^^^^^ It's not that hard to do is it? You train your children don't you, or do you just remove their fingertips so they won't steal. Ok just thinking out loud here. If tomorrow it became illegal to declaw cats in the US what would be the result. Obviously the kitties would all keep their claws. You have people who already train their cats or can live with a certain amount of damage. That wouldn't change. You'd have a certain number of people look into training their cats (Maybe vets and rescue groups would start educating people on how to train them), they'd be successful and all would be well with the world. You'd have a certain number of people who wouldn't adopt cats. No loss there maybe as the cats would have their claws. Hopefully the shelters would hold onto them a little longer so they'd have time to find a home. But if not I suppose a certain number would be killed. No way to tell whether there would be more cats killed because the shelters are full than there would be cats killed because of declawings gone wrong. But they'd die with their "boots" on. You'd have a certain number of people who already had a cat and either can't (rare but I'm sure there is a cat out there somewhere who just won't leave stuff alone regardless) or won't train the cat and they try to get rid of it. Maybe they find a shelter to take it maybe not. Some of these will be taken to the vet and get killed. Other people faced with "Fluffy the couch scratcher" will let "Fluffy" go outside. Some people may go to the trouble to build enclosures to keep Fluffy safe and all will be good with the world. But if some people can't train (for whatever reason) a trainable Fluffy then they probably won't bother with the enclosure. Fluffy might avoid poisoning himself or becoming road pizza and might survive outside for a while. Then Fluffy will start getting older and start losing cat fights with the neighbor cats or dogs (or children) and end up at the vets for abscesses or other injuries. He'll probably have a shorter life span one way or the other. But at least his life was spent with his claws. > If I had to decide between having a declawed cat (which we rescued from the > shelter) or no cat at all or a fish <uhg>, I'd go with a fish. So, which > is worse: declawed house cat that isn't allowed outside, or ethaniasia? Why would someone have to choose between the two? > By the way, we've had declawed cats before and on rare occassions they have > gotten outside. ...and you know what?...they lived! Being a declawed cat > outside isn't instant death. I've heard of declawed cats living outside on > a regular basis which I agree is unfair to the cat, but for a house cat, I > can't see a problem. Of course they can, but they are in more danger than if they were to have all of their digits. Claws are used for climbing (avoiding predators) and self defense. > Oh, and last I checked, my cat didn't need to pick up keys...or anything > else, ...and was more than self-sufficient with no claws. And you don't really need your pinky fingers, your spleen, or your apendictis..so why not just have them removed? Oh...and your earlobes don't do anything but hold your earing so cut that off too. The point isn't that they need their claws to survive, the point is the only reason to have your cat declawed is if you are too lazy to train it not to scratch the furniture, too cheap to buy it a scratching post, and so shallow you prize your things over your pets. Declawing is not an extreme manicure, it's amputation. It's totally unecessary, does not improve the cats life (the opposite in fact) and is rather selfish. I don't mean that in a judging way, there are things that I am selfish about but I try not to inflict that selfishness on others. Perhaps you shouldn't own cats? AG > Ok just thinking out loud here. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You have people who already train their cats or can live with a certain > amount of damage. That wouldn't change. I have watched this thread or similar ones several times now. I wouldn't declaw on principle. Which causes more damage, small children or a little kitty? Our Mimi is a housecat, motor home cat and a boat cat. She lives in each one of those several times a year with us. We have a piece of carpet as well as several large knotted ropes that hang over the side of the boat for her to use climbing back on after she has fallen over the side and had a swim. I think like children, cats can be trained to know what they can and can't do. Leanne > > Ok just thinking out loud here. > > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Leanne not only that, but sometimes cats sound like they are causing damage, but they aren't. mine makes scratching noises at furniture and things, but i watched her one day and she was just kinda spreading her claws out, then retracting them. we've had her for months and nothing is ruined. and if she DOES start to actually scratch, i just gently lift her paw off of whatever the item is (which is sometimes me. *ouch*). she knows by now, after only about 2 months that she can scratch the carpet. that's about it. so yeah, they can be trained. no need for declawing. a short declawing story......the first cat we had when i lived with my parents (got him in 1990), my parents got him declawed. his front feet ended up deformed for the rest of his life. didn't affect him.....but they looked like he had gotten his paws smashed with a rolling pin or something. they were *flat*. (the vet eventually admitted that he screwed up....but the first story was that the cat "tore at his feet" immediately afterward.) i remember he came home with bandages going up his entire legs, and he hobbled around for months afterward. :( ---julia why did you even include the statement "I am not trying to judge in any way". Cuz that is what you are doing! Just because you don't believe in declawing, does not mean people that do should not own cats!! My cats are declawed and are very happy. I declawed them knowing that I am responcible enough to never put my cat into a situation where they would have to defend themselves. I declawed my cats knowing that I would take care of them until the day they died! Being selfish has nothing to do with declawing cats. It is a personal choice and cats can still lead healthy and happy lives without front claws. If declawing was that bad for cats, why would vets still do it? Aren't the vets there to give positive advice? > > If I had to decide between having a declawed cat (which we rescued from > the [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > AG > why did you even include the statement "I am not trying to judge in any > way". Cuz that is what you are doing! Just because you don't believe in [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > If declawing was that bad for cats, why would vets still do it? Aren't the > vets there to give positive advice? People who declaw their cats ARE SELFISH. They MUTILATE their cats because their furniture means more to them. Anyone who declaws (with the exception of people with hemophila who can not risk getting scratched) is an animal abuser and shouldn't be owning animals in the first place. You do realize that declawing is not a simple removal of the claws, it's the amputation of the toes? Ignorant, selfish moron! Thanks Sue, for that polite and well thought out response<sarcasm>. For the record, yes, I do value my furniture more than my cat. That doesn't mean I don't care for my cat. I do....but I'm not going to have him ruin my furniture. I suppose someone who makes their horse sleep in the barn values their carpeting more than their horse. (Ok, I agree,...sleeping in the barn is not the same as declawing, but the point is that valuing material things over an animal is not inherently bad....its realistic.). I'm don't abuse animals. Any more than I abuse children when I have my son circumcised or pierce my daughters ears. Neither are necessary - both are aesthetic, and if done correctly, neither are a traumatic experience. By the way, removal of the claw producing part of the toe is not the same as removing the toe entirely. They still have toes, just one digit less. Finally,..I'm not selfish or ignorant. I'm well aware of the pro's and con's and the repercussions of declawing. I choose to have a cat, one without claws, and enjoy my furniture as well. Now if you'll excuse me, my Lazy-Boy and kitty are waiting! dkar > > why did you even include the statement "I am not trying to judge in any > > way". Cuz that is what you are doing! Just because you don't believe in [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > amputation of the toes? > Ignorant, selfish moron! I agree 100%. I love my cat very much, but I am not made of money!! Not only do I have a happy cat household, I also have decent furniture and belongings. I'd like to keep it that way!! Thanks dkar for putting my feelings in a polite delicate way!<no sarcasm needed> erin > Thanks Sue, for that polite and well thought out response<sarcasm>. > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > amputation of the toes? > > Ignorant, selfish moron! > I agree 100%. I love my cat very much, but I am not made of money!! Not > only do I have a happy cat household, I also have decent furniture and > belongings. I'd like to keep it that way!! > Thanks dkar for putting my feelings in a polite delicate way!<no sarcasm > needed> I'm going to respond to both this and your previous comments. I do not judge you .... I do judge the act..there is a difference. The act is selfish. That doesn't mean you are necessarily a selfish person on the whole..but in this area you are. First off I don't know how anyone can value material possessions over an animal but since you are just mutilating them not killing them I will set that aside. Did you know that cats can be trained? If you buy them a cat tree or scratching post I find they actually prefer to scratch on it. For the record, I am not made of money either so I find spending 9 bucks each on several of those cardboard scratching pads and placing them about the house is actually CHEAPER than declawing...and it's more humane. When I said that perhaps they shouldn't own a cat it wasn't meant as "you are too cruel you shouldn't have a cat"...more like "if things like scratching are a problem perhaps you should own a different type of pet". Cats scratch and dogs bark. Cutting off their toes or debarking them just so you can have one without having to deal with the "side effects" is a selfish act..you thought of self rather than the animal. That's just a fact, not a judgement. AG >I agree 100%. I love my cat very much, but I am not made of money!! Not >only do I have a happy cat household, I also have decent furniture and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >erin Absolutely disgusting! :( Now that is just ridiculous - "I am not made of money". People like you are sickening.....you buy a pet and then complain that it acts like the animal that it is. I suppose you complain about kitty shedding hair all over the place so think shaving him/her is a good idea too huh? Why not pull out its teeth too so that it can't bite you. Like Sherry said earlier in this thread: "Just don't have a cat if you must mutilate it to protect your material things". AceMan flushed and wrote : >kitty >shedding hair all over the place so think shaving him/her is a good >idea too huh? Why not pull out its teeth too so that it can't bite >you. I agree with this psot. A shaved, toothless pussy is a great idea. Being tired of lurking, on Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:42:39 +0000, Torllski XMas Balls posted: > AceMan flushed and wrote : > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I agree with this psot. A shaved, toothless pussy is a great idea. On the condition it is declawed of course!  Signaturemhm 27x12 smeeter #28 Usenet Valhalla Circle #19 & #21 CEO Alcatroll Labs Inc. Dr. Flonkenstein flushed and wrote : >Being tired of lurking, on Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:42:39 +0000, Torllski XMas >Balls posted: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> I agree with this psot. A shaved, toothless pussy is a great idea. >On the condition it is declawed of course! A slow pulling/twisting action with vice grips work perfectly. :-) Being tired of lurking, on Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:57:49 +0000, Torllski XMas Balls posted: > Dr. Flonkenstein flushed and wrote : > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > A slow pulling/twisting action with vice grips work perfectly. > :-) And you can use the recording of the sound for the sound track of an horror movie!! Signaturemhm 27x12 smeeter #28 Usenet Valhalla Circle #19 & #21 CEO Alcatroll Labs Inc. Dr. Flonkenstein flushed and wrote : >Being tired of lurking, on Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:57:49 +0000, Torllski XMas >Balls posted: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >And you can use the recording of the sound for the sound track of an >horror movie!! I should really post it here. I know this fine cat froup would luv it. :-) > Dr. Flonkenstein flushed and wrote : > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > A slow pulling/twisting action with vice grips work perfectly. > :-) OUCH! Signaturehttp://www.petersparrots.com for a gigabyte of my digital photos, including pictures of my parrots Does the Little Mermaid wear an algebra? >AceMan flushed and wrote : > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I agree with this psot. A shaved, toothless pussy is a great idea. I've found that a strong low kick to the mouth accomplishes this quite well. I can guarantee, your animal will think twice before biting again. Ryan Lankford http://www.ryan-lankford.com "Donkeys can talk, people can fly, and a man named Jesus lives in the Sky!" Ryan Lankford flushed and wrote : >>AceMan flushed and wrote : >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >well. I can guarantee, your animal will think twice before biting >again. Ah yes, perfect application for steel toed boots. :-) >Ryan Lankford flushed and wrote : > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Ah yes, perfect application for steel toed boots. OK, OK my sides are hurting from laughing.... :0) >:-) > >>>>kitty > >>>>shedding hair all over the place so think shaving him/her is a good [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > >:-) Only a sick animal abuser like you would find that troll's garbage funny. SueNY >> >>>>kitty >> >>>>shedding hair all over the place so think shaving him/her is a good [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Only a sick animal abuser like you would find that troll's garbage funny. My, someone just got a wedgie >SueNY Myra flushed and wrote : >>> >>>>kitty >>> >>>>shedding hair all over the place so think shaving him/her is a good [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >My, someone just got a wedgie Suzie's a little frustrated as its been a while since she's had any. :-) SueNY flushed and wrote : >> >>>>kitty >> >>>>shedding hair all over the place so think shaving him/her is a good [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >SueNY Honey, please resend those binaries of your titties. I didn't get the last ones. :-) >Thanks Sue, for that polite and well thought out response<sarcasm>. > >For the record, yes, I do value my furniture more than my cat. That >doesn't mean I don't care for my cat. I do....but I'm not going to have >him ruin my furniture. It doesn't have to be an either/or situation. You can enjoy nice furniture *and* your cats can keep their claws. I do. So does most of Europe, since declaw is illegal there. It's simply a matter of whether you're willing to spend time training the cat, and/or clipping its claws. Did you try either before you mutilated your cat? I suppose someone who makes their horse sleep in >the barn values their carpeting more than their horse. (Ok, I >agree,...sleeping in the barn is not the same as declawing, but the point is >that valuing material things over an animal is not inherently bad....its >realistic.). It isn't bad to value material things. Just don't have a cat if you must mutilate it to protect your material things. >I'm don't abuse animals. Any more than I abuse children when I have my son >circumcised or pierce my daughters ears. Your son doesn't walk on his penis and your daughter doesn't walk on her earlobes. The real question should be, would you hack off their fingers to protect your furniture? Neither are necessary - both are >aesthetic, and if done correctly, neither are a traumatic experience. You are obviously totally ignorant of the surgery. It is *not* aesthetic. Do some research (although it's too late for your cat) and get back to us when you know what you're talking about. You're obviously another one of those who thinks declaw is like a permanent manicure. >By the way, removal of the claw producing part of the toe is not the same as >removing the toe entirely. They still have toes, just one digit less. Great. Let's see how *you* get along with "one digit less." Don't minimimize to justify the fact that you mutilated your cat out of selfishness. You could have trained him/her. >Finally,..I'm not selfish or ignorant. I'm well aware of the pro's and >con's and the repercussions of declawing. Not selfish or ignorant? Then I suppose that just leaves ''cruel." I choose to have a cat, one >without claws, and enjoy my furniture as well. > >Now if you'll excuse me, my Lazy-Boy and kitty are waiting! Lazy-Boy. How fitting. It's a shame you were too lazy to train your cat. Sherry >dkar > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> amputation of the toes? >> Ignorant, selfish moron! >why did you even include the statement "I am not trying to judge in any >way". Cuz that is what you are doing! Just because you don't believe in [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >If declawing was that bad for cats, why would vets still do it? Aren't the >vets there to give positive advice? I couldn't have said that better myself. When I went to have my kitten declawed my vet asked me if I just wanted the front done or front and back. Now I will admit that I can't see doing the back claws because they do need a way to protect them selves if need be, but THAT IS MY PERSONAL OPINION. Myra >> > If I had to decide between having a declawed cat (which we rescued from >> the [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >> >> AG <snip> When I went to have my kitten declawed my vet asked me if I just wanted the front done or front and back. Now I will admit that I can't see doing the back claws because they do need a way to protect them selves if need be, but THAT IS MY PERSONAL OPINION. Myra Just wondering 1-why did you take your cat to get it declawed? Was it because the cat was already scratching or to prevent them from scratching? 2-Had you tried a scratching post or cat tree? 3-Did the vet discuss any alternatives or just say OK and ask for your preference, front or both? And I'm not trying to be a smarta**. Really interested in the answers. ><snip> > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >And I'm not trying to be a smarta**. Really interested in the answers. This is our second cat. Our 5 year old was declawed when she was fixed at 5 mos old. It never, ever effected her in a bad way at all. Naturally we did the same with our male kitten, at 4 mos old. He knows nothing is different at all, still a very, very loving kitten. It's not that we don't want to spend the time training them, it's that they are TOTALLY indoor cats, there are 4 people in this family and I can't see everyone turning around every min and yelling at the cats and confusing them more. It's like our kitten likes to watch the TV at times. Now we have a 55" TV. He will go up to it on hide legs and it looks like he is clawing the TV. It's sooooo cute and nice that I can just let him get his curiosities out and not have to yell at him for it. I know he is not going to hurt the screen. No the vet did not ask us about alternatives mainly because this was our second cat to have this done. They made sure we knew how to take care of him afterwards. And if they did have a problem with it we would have just gone someplace else. This place was brand new, very clean and treated there animals very well. Hope this helped, Myra On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:34:48 -0500, "Wendy" <wendypart@nospam.com> wrote: ><snip> > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >And I'm not trying to be a smarta**. Really interested in the answers. This is our second cat. Our 5 year old was declawed when she was fixed at 5 mos old. It never, ever effected her in a bad way at all. Naturally we did the same with our male kitten, at 4 mos old. He knows nothing is different at all, still a very, very loving kitten. It's not that we don't want to spend the time training them, it's that they are TOTALLY indoor cats, there are 4 people in this family and I can't see everyone turning around every min and yelling at the cats and confusing them more. It's like our kitten likes to watch the TV at times. Now we have a 55" TV. He will go up to it on hide legs and it looks like he is clawing the TV. It's sooooo cute and nice that I can just let him get his curiosities out and not have to yell at him for it. I know he is not going to hurt the screen. No the vet did not ask us about alternatives mainly because this was our second cat to have this done. They made sure we knew how to take care of him afterwards. And if they did have a problem with it we would have just gone someplace else. This place was brand new, very clean and treated there animals very well. Hope this helped, Myra Just want to make sure I've got this right. You declawed the second cat because you had declawed the first one. Is that correct? If that's correct what prompted you to have the first one done. Was that cat a problem scratcher? Did the vet offer alternatives that time or just say OK and do the declaw? >On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:34:48 -0500, "Wendy" <wendypart@nospam.com> >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >a problem scratcher? Did the vet offer alternatives that time or just say OK >and do the declaw? Did you read my post just above. I should not have to explain it again. Myra On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:38:28 -0500, "Wendy" <wendypart@nospam.com> wrote: >>"Myra" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message >>news:2pivtv0l3g85qqg3tdnhkf6kndd85igj7f@4ax.com... [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] >a problem scratcher? Did the vet offer alternatives that time or just say OK >and do the declaw? Did you read my post just above. I should not have to explain it again. Myra Yes I read your post. You said "This is our second cat. Our 5 year old was declawed when she was >fixed at 5 mos old. It never, ever effected her in a bad way at all. >Naturally we did the same with our male kitten, at 4 mos old" You never said why you decided to get the first cat declawed and that was what I was asking. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you told me. My understanding is that you had your 5 year old cat for a while. Later you got the 4 mo. old. Unless I'm wrong and you got the 5 yr. old and the 4 mo. old at the same time. You also said "No the vet did not ask us about alternatives mainly because this was >our second cat to have this done." You never said whether he discussed any alternatives with the FIRST cat. I was asking about the first cat as you had explained about what occured with the second one. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough and there was a misunderstanding. >On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:38:28 -0500, "Wendy" <wendypart@nospam.com> >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] >with the second one. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough and there was a >misunderstanding. I'm sorry if I sounded rude. Above I mentioned: "Our 5 year old was declawed when she was fixed at 5 mos old". I can't remember if the vet at that time told us about any alternatives as it was about 5 years ago. We decided to get the first cat declawed for the same reason as the second: "It's not that we don't want to spend the time training them, it's that they are TOTALLY indoor cats, there are 4 people in this family and I can't see everyone turning around every min and yelling at the cats and confusing them more". I hope this clears things up more for you, Myra >Just wondering >1-why did you take your cat to get it declawed? Was it because the cat was [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >And I'm not trying to be a smarta**. Really interested in the answers. First let me say that I am not a declawer usually and none of my 4 babies will ever be declawed as long as I have them. The only time I would consider declawing would be if it was declaw or it's life. Then I would opt for the laser declaw. I have four four-legged babies and can not have any more. I found 2 more strays and asked my ex to take them. The only way she would was if they were declawed. I looked for other homes and no one would take them. I checked with the 2 shelters here (Humane Society and the county animal pound bothof which suck). They more had so many animals that the average hold time was 1 week then they were put down (KILLED) so I paid for having Furball and Prancer declawed to get them a home and keep them alive. http://hometown.aol.com/larrystark/my-babies.htm On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:38:28 -0500, "Wendy" <wendypart@nospam.com> wrote: >Just wondering >1-why did you take your cat to get it declawed? Was it because the cat was [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >And I'm not trying to be a smarta**. Really interested in the answers. First let me say that I am not a declawer usually and none of my 4 babies will ever be declawed as long as I have them. The only time I would consider declawing would be if it was declaw or it's life. Then I would opt for the laser declaw. I have four four-legged babies and can not have any more. I found 2 more strays and asked my ex to take them. The only way she would was if they were declawed. I looked for other homes and no one would take them. I checked with the 2 shelters here (Humane Society and the county animal pound bothof which suck). They more had so many animals that the average hold time was 1 week then they were put down (KILLED) so I paid for having Furball and Prancer declawed to get them a home and keep them alive. http://hometown.aol.com/larrystark/my-babies.htm Did you have the laser procedure done on Furball and Prancer? If so how did it go? Do you know much about the specifics of that procedure? Do they actually sever the tendon or just weaken it? Does that effect the way the cat puts weight on the claws? I have heard that the laser procedure can leave the cat more vulnerable to arthritis. I'm wondering if giving the cats suppliments to promote healthy cartiledge would maybe help ward off that possible effect. I also haven't declawed a cat. I'll be honest the idea of amputating the end of the paw bothers me. It seems so extreme and is irreversable. If something goes wrong there is no going back. My niece adopted a cat who was declawed and had healing problems. That lead to box problems which lead to her returning the cat to the shelter as she didn't have the financial resources to pay for more surgery to fix the previous surgery. If anything I attempt to err on the side of caution. I just wish there was more information available from vets or rescue groups. We had a cat who tore into brand new carpeting. He had never been a scratching problem before. But after replacing 20 year old carpeting he went to town. I have to confess I was really upset. I had waited a long time to afford the carpeting and wasn't happy to see it picked apart every night after we went to bed. We tried covering the spots he scratched on and he just moved to a new spot. Short of covering my entire living room and hallway with towels I didn't know how to protect my carpet. I saw all kind of stuff sold in stores but I was skeptical and didn't know if any of it worked. I asked for suggestions from a rescue group and they suggested declawing. I thought "great it's my carpet or the claws". :o( Instead we put him in the laundry room at night where there isn't carpet for him to claw. He got into something, I'm afraid he found it in the laundry room, was poisoned and died. Although I don't know what he could have gotten into as everything was sealed and showed no signs of being chewed, I will feel guilty forever. I wish someone had recommended something other than declawing. Is there a spray that I could have used on the rug? What was it about the rug that attracted him? If I could have solved that problem he might still be with me ..... or if I had taken him for the tendon surgery he might still be with me. It's so hard sometimes to know what the right thing to do really is. >>babies will ever be declawed as long as I have them. The only time I >>would consider declawing would be if it was declaw or it's life. Then [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >suppliments to promote healthy cartiledge would maybe help ward off that >possible effect. Furball and Prancer SEEMED to come through the laser declaw surgery better and heal quicker then my ex mother's cats did with regular declaw. As for problem afterwards I have not noticed any and it has been about 5 / 6 weeks. Check out http://www.laserles.com/Declawpics.htm for pics and a few details of the laser declaw proceedure. http://hometown.aol.com/larrystark/my-babies.htm >I couldn't have said that better myself. >When I went to have my kitten declawed my vet asked me if I just [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Myra Oh, so they only need their back legs to protect themselves but not their front? I suppose you only need your feet to defend yourself and not your hands too right? >>I couldn't have said that better myself. >>When I went to have my kitten declawed my vet asked me if I just [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >I suppose you only need your feet to defend yourself and not your >hands too right? And fingernails can be used as weapons also. You file them back they can no longer hurt anyone. >>Oh, so they only need their back legs to protect themselves but not >>their front? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >And fingernails can be used as weapons also. You file them back they >can no longer hurt anyone. Exactly! You also clip a cat's claws for the same reason. Not remove them. Sherry >>>Oh, so they only need their back legs to protect themselves but not >>>their front? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Sherry The day before we took our kitten in to get declawed I did clip his claws and that's when he went up to my husbands ventage radio and ruined the cloth in the front. That's what cats do. Every time you clip there claws they feel they need to sharpen them again so it's none stop and you would be clipping them every other day. I'm sorry I don't like having to hold my cat down and fight with him everytime time. He doesn't like it and neither do I. By declawing him early he knows no difference and life is much smoother. Myra >>>Oh, so they only need their back legs to protect themselves but not >>>their front? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Sherry The day before we took our kitten in to get declawed I did clip his claws and that's when he went up to my husbands ventage radio and ruined the cloth in the front. That's what cats do. Every time you clip there claws they feel they need to sharpen them again so it's none stop and you would be clipping them every other day. I'm sorry I don't like having to hold my cat down and fight with him everytime time. He doesn't like it and neither do I. By declawing him early he knows no difference and life is much smoother. Myra We recently adopted a cat (1 - 2 years old) who had a thing for my stereo speakers. We got the double sided sticky tape (they sell it for this purpose in the pet stores) and put it on the speakers. We bought a cat tree (the best money I've ever spent). We fed the "offending" cat on the tree, scratched our fingers on the jute, sprayed the tree with catnip and that's the last time she's scratched anywhere else. I left the sticky tape on the speaker for a few days and then was able to remove it with no residue left behind. Our 4 mo.old kitten (who we've had since he was 3 wks old) is using the tree exclusively now too. He has completely stopped trying to scratch anywhere else. I love that tree. Not only do all three of my cats go to town on it but it provides exercise for them. Our "offender" certainly needs the excercise as her picture was next to bowling ball in the dictionary when we first brought her home. The kitten gets enough exercise on it so I actually get to sleep at night now. :o) "Wendy" wendypart@nospam.com writes >....By declawing him early he knows no difference and life is much smoother. Get a little knowledge into that brain..and research the declaw procedure. I'm not pro-declaw - for the most part - but, to dismiss it lightly is ignorant. "Wendy" wendypart@nospam.com writes >....By declawing him early he knows no difference and life is much smoother. Get a little knowledge into that brain..and research the declaw procedure. I'm not pro-declaw - for the most part - but, to dismiss it lightly is ignorant. That wasn't my quote that was myra's BTW >why did you even include the statement "I am not trying to judge in any >way". Cuz that is what you are doing! Just because you don't believe in >declawing, does not mean people that do should not own cats!! Wrong, people that do this hideous act SHOULDN'T own cats just as paedophiles shouldn't look after kids. > My cats >are declawed and are very happy. But how do you KNOW they are happy? You don't! > I declawed them knowing that I am >responcible enough to never put my cat into a situation where they would >have to defend themselves. I declawed my cats knowing that I would take >care of them until the day they died! Well you also should have been responsible enough to train your cat to scratch a scratching post then shouldn't you rather than chopping off the ends of his toes. If you knew you were going to "take care of them until the day they died" then you should have known that teaching them not to scratch furniture is part of being a responsible owner. >Being selfish has nothing to do with declawing cats. It is a personal >choice and cats can still lead healthy and happy lives without front claws. Er, it does actually. It has everything to do with being selfish. You don't KNOW only THINK that cats lead "healthy and happy" lives after being declawed. Have you actually researched what declawing a cat actually entails as it doen't appear that you have. I suggest you take a look at the following page http://www.declawing.com/htmls/declawing.htm >If declawing was that bad for cats, why would vets still do it? Aren't the >vets there to give positive advice? Vets in the US are apparently too stupid to know that declawing a cat is wrong. It's no wonder then that: England Scotland Wales Italy France Germany Austria Switzerland Norway Sweden Netherlands Northern Ireland Ireland Denmark Finland Slovenia Portugal Belgium Spain Brazil Australia New Zealand have all outlawed the declawing of cats except in exceptional circumstances. Like some of the other US policies, just because someone higher up than you says so, it isn't always the right advice. Think for yourself! How would you like it if your fingertips were removed so that you couldn't scratch anybody? Right, you were trained that scratching people is wrong weren't you? I thought as much. > >If declawing was that bad for cats, why would vets still do it? Aren't the > >vets there to give positive advice? [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Like some of the other US policies, just because someone higher up > than you says so, it isn't always the right advice. In all fairness to the US, we are a very young country. I know we kind of grew up rich and got "big" fast but we haven't had a chance to learn the lessons some of the older civilizations have. We still have the right to run around with guns, we still have the death penalty and we still declaw cats, debark dogs etc. Remember when they founded this country they were trying to gain freedoms so we are very protective about our "rights". I don't agree with making declawing against the law. I would much rather every person wake up and realize how wrong and how unnecessary it is. That makes for a better civilization, a better humanity...without government interference. BTW...my vet won't declaw...thinks it's morally wrong. AG >>why did you even include the statement "I am not trying to judge in any >>way". Cuz that is what you are doing! Just because you don't believe in [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >You don't! My cats start purring as soon as I start petting them. He don't give the bulls**t that they purr when there in pain. Right >> I declawed them knowing that I am >>responcible enough to never put my cat into a situation where they would [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] >couldn't scratch anybody? Right, you were trained that scratching >people is wrong weren't you? I thought as much. Nice. Do you kiss your kids with that filthy mouth? Cats do purr when they are in pain. When one of mine fell off his perch and sliced his pawpad almost completely off on the heating vent, he purred up a storm-very loud. I imagine when your cat woke up with bloody paws after you multilated him he probably purred in pain too. It's too bad he's owned by an animal abuser. > My cats start purring as soon as I start petting them. He don't give > the bulls**t that they purr when there in pain. Right >Nice. Do you kiss your kids with that filthy mouth? Cats do purr when they >are in pain. When one of mine fell off his perch and sliced his pawpad >almost completely off on the heating vent, he purred up a storm-very loud. I >imagine when your cat woke up with bloody paws after you multilated him he >probably purred in pain too. It's too bad he's owned by an animal abuser. Whaa, Whaa How dare you have a perch so high that the cat can fall off of and get hurt. OH, did I say Whaa >> My cats start purring as soon as I start petting them. He don't give >> the bulls**t that they purr when there in pain. Right >>Nice. Do you kiss your kids with that filthy mouth? Cats do purr when they >>are in pain. When one of mine fell off his perch and sliced his pawpad [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >>> My cats start purring as soon as I start petting them. He don't give >>> the bulls**t that they purr when there in pain. Right <sigh> That's right, deflect the issue from your own animal abuses by being a troll. The fact still remains that cats DO purr when they're in pain not just when they enjoy something. You don't seem to really have much of a clue about cats at all really. I suggest you do A LOT more research before you think about getting any more cats in future. Anyway, enough of your selfish and lame excuses. What goes around comes around, hopefully one day you will have limbs amputated and then YOU get to find out exactly what it's like! See how you like it then! Oh, did I say........... *PLONK* >Nice. Do you kiss your kids with that filthy mouth? Cats do purr when they >are in pain. When one of mine fell off his perch and sliced his pawpad [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> My cats start purring as soon as I start petting them. He don't give >> the bulls**t that they purr when there in pain. Right I'm glad you were able to make sense of that sentence cos I sure as hell couldn't figure out what it was supposed to mean. Myra, I suggest you take a bit more time on your grammar next time instead of concentrating so much on the filthy language. >>Nice. Do you kiss your kids with that filthy mouth? Cats do purr when they >>are in pain. When one of mine fell off his perch and sliced his pawpad [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Myra, I suggest you take a bit more time on your grammar next time >instead of concentrating so much on the filthy language. And what is the word "COS" suppose to mean. It's "BECAUSE" you troll. OH no I'm stooping down to there level. Forgive me!!! > And what is the word "COS" suppose to mean. It's "BECAUSE" you troll. > OH no I'm stooping down to there level. Forgive me!!! LOL. Pot, kettle, black? You are apparently the troll Myra! You were able to make sense of his sentence weren't you? unlike your rambling sentence which made no sense whatsoever. And it's "their" NOT "there" when you're talking about a person NOT a place. Get your own grammar correct before critisizing others! On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:46:34 -0000 (GMT), in article <ZWxpcw==.153884f2f2a6e57f23287171dcd1b0f8@1071917194.cotse.net>, >> And what is the word "COS" suppose to mean. It's "BECAUSE" you troll. >> OH no I'm stooping down to there level. Forgive me!!! [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >And it's "their" NOT "there" when you're talking about a person NOT a >place. Get your own grammar correct before critisizing others! LOL. You did mean "criticizing" not "critisizing" didn't you? :) Better correct yourself before Myra the grammatically retarded troll sees that and jumps on you for it! :) AceMan flushed and wrote : >On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:46:34 -0000 (GMT), in article ><ZWxpcw==.153884f2f2a6e57f23287171dcd1b0f8@1071917194.cotse.net>, [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >Better correct yourself before Myra the grammatically retarded troll >sees that and jumps on you for it! :) You seem frustrated jealous one. You want Myra to jump on your chubby little butt don't ya DeAnna. :-) >You seem frustrated jealous one. You want Myra to jump on your chubby >little butt don't ya DeAnna. >:-) YAWN! Flush boring troll! *PLONK* AceMan flushed and wrote : >>You seem frustrated jealous one. You want Myra to jump on your chubby >>little butt don't ya DeAnna. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >*PLONK* Killfiles are for pussies with no self-control, Pussy. :-) John Doe flushed and wrote : >> And what is the word "COS" suppose to mean. It's "BECAUSE" you troll. >> OH no I'm stooping down to there level. Forgive me!!! [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >And it's "their" NOT "there" when you're talking about a person NOT a >place. Get your own grammar correct before critisizing others! Remailers are for pussys DeAnna. Grammer pouncing is lame. Leave Myra alone, he's a nice guy. >Remailers are for pussys DeAnna. Grammer pouncing is lame. Leave >Myra alone, he's a nice guy. YAWN! Flush boring troll! *PLONK* SueNY flushed and wrote : >Nice. Do you kiss your kids with that filthy mouth? So I guess eating pussy is out of the question eh? :-) > If declawing was that bad for cats, why would vets still do it? Aren't the > vets there to give positive advice? they do it because you pay them to. If you even have to consider declawing, then you should not ever be owned by a cat!!!! > Okay, so here's my question: I understand that > declawing involves the removal of the "finger" > of the cat up to the first knuckle. I understand that > this takes away the defenses of an "outdoor" cat, All true. > but this would not make a difference for an indoor > cat, save if it were to some how get out of the house. Unfortunately, not so. Since you don't own a cat, you're probably not intimately familiar with just how often they do use their claws. Not only does it make a huge physical difference (could you operate in the same manner without all your fingertips as you do with them?), but it is incredibly emotionally unsettling to the animal and can cause behavioral problems (how 'bout if you woke up and all your finger tips were gone!?). > Now, for those who are philosophically opposed > to this treatment, I gather from many of the posts I've > read here that it's considered abusive to the cats... > it's both painful as well as disfiguring. But what > I wonder is if those of you who are opposed to > declawing are also opposed to neutering or spaying? No. It's not a philosophical standpoint to a "treatment." Declawing is a surgical mutilation which is illegal in most countries. Neutering, on the other hand, not only reduces the potential of hundreds of thousands of unwanted cats, but has any number of health benefits to the animal, including eliminating the risk of ovarian cysts, testicular and ovarian cancer, prostate problems, and infections. > Isn't that also painful as well as disfiguring to the > cat? For those who find one acceptable, but not > the other, why? What is different between the two? Nearly 15 million cats a year are "destroyed." Perfectly healthy animals that could live with you and love you needlessly killed. Many people end up turning declawed animals over to shelters due to the ensuing behavioral problems. Spaying and neutering not only promotes a healthier animal, but cuts a few out of that 15 million. To really see the difference, visit a local animal shelter and it'll all come right home to you. > Remember, this is a philosophical question only! > No cat is endanger of being declawed. Please give > me a logical response, not an emotional one! You sound like a nice enough guy Chris, why not adopt a cat or four? :) Dee > Okay, so here's my question: I understand that > declawing involves the removal of the "finger" > of the cat up to the first knuckle. I understand that > this takes away the defenses of an "outdoor" cat, > but this would not make a difference for an indoor > cat, save if it were to some how get out of the house. It does make a difference. Cats that scratch on scratching posts and such are not just sharpening their claws..it's also an emotional release (sort of). They enjoy it. Plus...the chance that the cat could get out and would be defensive or the possibility that the owner might have to rehome the cat in the future due to unforseen circumstances makes it better for the cat if it has all it's digits intact. More options. > Now, for those who are philosophically opposed > to this treatment, I gather from many of the posts I've [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cat? For those who find one acceptable, but not > the other, why? What is different between the two? The difference is one is done for the betterment of the cat and the species, the other is done as a convience for the owner. Cats can be taught not to scratch. Hundreds of thousands of cat owners manage just fine without declawing our cats. When you spay or neuter you are helping to stem the tide of unwanted cats and you are eliminating one of the reasons cats tend to roam (and subsequently get lost, injured or even killed). Altering is for the cat, declawing is for the owner. I feel the same way about people who have their dogs tails chopped off or ears cut to make them more "presentable". Mostly it's just that there is an alternative to declawing...it's called a scratching post. There isn't much of an alternative to spaying or neutering. Maybe some day they will invent the pill for cats :-) AG >> Okay, so here's my question: I understand that >> declawing involves the removal of the "finger" [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > AG The "pill for cats" will not prevent mammary or testicular cancer, may not prevent marking behavior (which is stressful for a cat to feel they need to mark) but it makes us feel better to think they don't have to be subjected to surgery. Neutering is important for animals not meant for breeding because it stops the hormones that produce these "side effects" that cause cancer. >The difference is one is done for the betterment of the >cat and the species, the other is done as a convience for [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >AG Very well said, AG. Bottom line is, declawing serves the camp who take an animal, and surgically adapt it to fit their own lifestyle or demands. While there *are* some advantages to the owner also to neuter, it also benefits the species. Sherry | Now, for those who are philosophically opposed | to this treatment, I gather from many of the posts I've [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] | | Remember, this is a philosophical question only! Here's the philosophical but also true answer: Declawing harms the cat not only physically but also mentally. Neutering doesn't. In fact it can improve the mental state of an animal. Carola > | Now, for those who are philosophically opposed > | to this treatment, I gather from many of the posts I've [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > mentally. Neutering doesn't. In fact it can improve the > mental state of an animal. Thanks everyone for your comments. I really apprecaite that no one dropped to the level of name calling. I really feared that the topic of discussion would get lost in an emtional arguement, which I'm sure most of you gathered by my repeated requestion for rational discussion in my original post! At any rate, while I was never a fan of declawing, I'm 100% against it now. The agruements raised here made a lot of sense and helped my sort out my feelings on the subject matter. Specifically I want to respond to Dee, who suggested I get a cat of my own. Well, it isn't going to happen. :( As I mentioned in my first post, as much as I'd like to my wife isn't a big cat person and much of my family is VERY, VERY allergic to cats, so that's a big hinderance. It's odd, my Dad and two older brothers are both extremely allergic to cats. My dad starts tearing up the moment he walks into a house with cats. My brothers aren't much better. I, on the other hand, have never had a problem with cats, ever. Chris Chris if you are interested in some kind of pet think of (if you want) getting a rabbit...(but educate yourself on how to care for one...they are more fragile then felines) Both my SIL and my nieces are allergic to cats and they went the rabbit route. They can be trained to use a litter box like a cat... But just make sure if you think about this, educate yourself about them and their care and make sure you have a vet in the area that knows how to deal with them..... >>| Now, for those who are philosophically opposed >>| to this treatment, I gather from many of the posts I've [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Chris > Chris if you are interested in some kind of pet think of (if you want) > getting a rabbit...(but educate yourself on how to care for one...they [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > and their care and make sure you have a vet in the area that knows how > to deal with them..... Hmmm... and Interesting thought, though I do wonder how my Beagle would react!! :) :) Right now we're probably not going to add any more pets. We do have the dog mentioned above, and we have two kids: a 3 year old and a 6 month old. Both are handfuls enough by themselves that I wouldn't want to add any pets to the mix right now. Chris Ok...just thought I would pass on that info.. AFA your beagle..My SIL and bro not only have the two bunnies but have and minuature american husky dog named Wishbone....the dog and bunnies get along just fine :) >>Chris if you are interested in some kind of pet think of (if you want) >>getting a rabbit...(but educate yourself on how to care for one...they [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Chris > Ok...just thought I would pass on that info.. > AFA your beagle..My SIL and bro not only have the two bunnies but have > and minuature american husky dog named Wishbone....the dog and bunnies > get along just fine > :) Aha, but a Husky is not a Beagle! Beagles were bred to hunt rabbits in England. Beagle has one of the most sensative noses in the Dog world, necessary to track Rabbits who leave very little sent trails. Sadie loves to drop her nose to the ground and follow a trail of all the rabbits in our neighborhood. One time she actually tracked one back to a shrub where it was hiding. Suddenly the rabbit jumps from the bush and ran away. Darn thing scared my Beagle nearly to death!! She can running back to me with her tail tucked between her legs. Chris LOL...good poin and good story :0 :-P >>Ok...just thought I would pass on that info.. >>AFA your beagle..My SIL and bro not only have the two bunnies but have [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Chris In news:bnuit4$164jiv$1@ID-63378.news.uni-berlin.de, All the News <ctb_me_spam_just_sucks@softhome.net> composed with style: >> Ok...just thought I would pass on that info.. >> AFA your beagle..My SIL and bro not only have the two bunnies but [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Chris When I was a kid we had a beagle who thought he was a rotty or something. He once killed a rabbit just barking at it. We think it was just scared to death. A PS to my last note on rabbits... the ones my SIL have (they have two male and female) they are not caged and are free in the house >>| Now, for those who are philosophically opposed >>| to this treatment, I gather from many of the posts I've [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Chris > Hey folks... I'm hoping to start a bit of a discussion > on declawing and get some education for myself. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Chris Dumbass. You're asking for a logical response about pets, one of the most emotional things in life. Get real. |
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