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Cat Forum / General Topics / October 2004Breeding cats argument
I used to use this group a few months back and stopped... why? because of certain people in here. This is NOT a rescue cat group, and yes I fully understand how poor kittens/cats are put down everyday due to over population, but come on guys do you really think by being so abusive to people is really going to stop people letting their cats just breed without any after thought. Why not try the other approach and explain nicely, showing sites to make people see how bad the over population is! and what happens to some of these cats/kittens. Show how much the average Queen and a litter can cost them. This risks involved e.g when a veterinary care is needed. and so on......................... Yes I have been a 'victim' of abuse from some of you last year why because I the owner of 3 Ragdoll cats... so I was told I am responsible of the dead of 3 sheltered kittens!!! I know seeing these shelters makes you very angry and yes I can see why it must be very frustrating for you.............but I have always learnt being rude to people gets you no where in life. SooZy SooZy wrote in message ... >I used to use this group a few months back and stopped... why? because of >certain people in here. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >people see how bad the over population is! and what happens to some of >these cats/kittens. Soozy. I'm sure you're trying your best to be kind - but you must understand without a --shadow of a doubt-- when I say (without a tinge of hypocrisy, mind you) that I - Just - Don't - Give - A - sh.t - About - Cats - In - A - Shelter. ***If*** I did, I would would live and breathe in such a place. Fact is, however, quite the opposite. And it is NOT anyone's business what I do or don't do to MY cats. >Show how much the average Queen and a litter can cost them. Cost who? Me? I've lived with over 15 cats - not all at the same time of course! Cat food and litter money means nothing to me - Esp. since I don't run to a vet everytime one of their whiskers get a little bent out of shape! >This risks involved e.g when a veterinary care is needed. You're right about risks. It is **very** risky to entrust an otherwise healthy, normal cat to a vet. And costly too! I would guess that my current cost would increase a thousand percent if I were uneducated enough to "vet" my cats!! >and so on......................... > >Yes I have been a 'victim' of abuse from some of you last year why because I >the owner of 3 Ragdoll cats... so I was told I am responsible of the dead of >3 sheltered kittens!!! I am sorry about that. There are some real 'animals' here. >I know seeing these shelters makes you very angry and yes I can see why it >must be very frustrating for you.............but I have always learnt being >rude to people gets you no where in life. Neither does their stupidity. >SooZy Do you mind me asking you a question please, if say a person who had one of your kitten and 6 months later had a change in circumstances and could not keep the cat any longer and came back to you asking if you would take it back what would you do? I know I would, I stressed that when they came to collect the kittens SooZy >Do you mind me asking you a question please, if say a person who had one of >your kitten and 6 months later had a change in circumstances and could not >keep the cat any longer and came back to you asking if you would take it >back what would you do? LOL - of course I would take it back! I don't **want** to give them away in the first place. My husband MAKES me! :-( Seeing something that little grow up and watching it figure out life is really touching, you know. You watch - you touch - you form a bond. <sigh> >I know I would, I stressed that when they came to collect the kittens >SooZy >>Do you mind me asking you a question please, if say a person who had one >>of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > in > the first place. My husband MAKES me! :-( As I thought! > Seeing something that little grow up and watching it figure out life is > really touching, you know. You watch - you touch - you form a bond. > > <sigh> yeah I know its wonderful :-) the kittens I bred are a year old now, just recieved some year old pictures of them Wow they are so big bless em >>I know I would, I stressed that when they came to collect the kittens >>SooZy Every year in the UK we hold the supreme cat show, the cats protection league go there too. Do you really think the show would invite them along every year if the people they were as abusive to the breeders as some of the people here are?!? http://www.supremecatshow.org/ Soozy > SooZy wrote in message ... >>I used to use this group a few months back and stopped... why? because of [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > however, quite the opposite. And it is NOT anyone's business what I do or > don't do to MY cats. >>Show how much the average Queen and a litter can cost them. > > Cost who? Me? I've lived with over 15 cats - not all at the same time of > course! Cat food and litter money means nothing to me - Esp. since I don't > run to a vet every time one of their whiskers get a little bent out of > shape! well you obviously can afford these things, so could I when I bred my ragdoll last year, the 6 kittens where all homed to good people who wanted Ragdolls, so then I was accused of the murder of 9 cats in a shelter! things is my partner and I only wanted Ragdolls. I have had cats from shelters in the past, which turned out to be very loving cute cats. I have also brought Moggies from Joe Bloggs down the road. What makes me angry is the way people just think they can be damn right rude to people, that is not educating people! >>This risks involved e.g when a veterinary care is needed. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >>and so on......................... well I have mine all insured but my insurance does not cover breeding, I did have enough money in case something went wrong to pay the vet, and I also read up on all the problems, making sure I knew what I was doing. Ok if everything went pair shaped I would of taken the queen to the vet! but I like you do not take my cats to the vet every time one of them sneezes! My cats are healthy indoor cats, and yes I will breed them again one day, I have a waiting list for them! >>Yes I have been a 'victim' of abuse from some of you last year why because > I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I am sorry about that. There are some real 'animals' here. Yeap and I will be their victim yet again, but hey let them call me all the names under the sun, There are thousands of people out there who want a certain breed of cat! >>I know seeing these shelters makes you very angry and yes I can see why it >>must be very frustrating for you.............but I have always learnt [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >>SooZy >> Cost who? Me? I've lived with over 15 cats - not all at the same time of >> course! Cat food and litter money means nothing to me - Esp. since I don't >> run to a vet every time one of their whiskers get a little bent out of >> shape! >well you obviously can afford these things Soozy - you gotta think "outside the box!!!" Cat food doesn't have to come out of a bag! They'll eat almost anything! One of my favorites used to eat McDonald's salad - vegetables and everything! Left-overs are real treat too! And yup - those birds outside - well I just don't know what they taste like - but the cats like them. <g> And kitty litter? Honey - mix that with a box of Arm and Hammer's baking soda and you'll stretch it out to last twice as long (the amount in the bag - not the litter box.) >so could I when I bred my >ragdoll last year, the 6 kittens where all homed to good people who wanted >Ragdolls, so then I was accused of the murder of 9 cats in a shelter! If that's the case, then the mothers and fathers in this group can logically be held responsible for the neglected and abused children found in foster homes! >things >is my partner and I only wanted Ragdolls. You have a RIGHT to. >I have had cats from shelters in >the past, which turned out to be very loving cute cats. I have also >brought Moggies from Joe Bloggs down the road. > >What makes me angry is the way people just think they can be damn right rude >to people, that is not educating people! Electric Nachos kicks a.s. I'm not worried about it. They're apparently about as bright as Bush - and therefore - fully capable of kicking their own a.s for you! >well I have mine all insured Insured??!?! (tee hee) >but my insurance does not cover breeding, I did >have enough money in case something went wrong to pay the vet, and I also [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >have a >waiting list for them! Well good luck! | My | cats are healthy indoor cats, and yes I will breed them again one day, I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] | > of | >>3 sheltered kittens!!! I think this ongoing discussion is very interesting and a very important topic in a cat group. I've been in this group for quite a while now, I've learnt a lot too - thanks to everybody. But this topic is really down to earth now. Yes, there are too many cats about. Yes, there are too many careless people when it comes to not neutering cats!! I get mad at the farmers over here: They get a good financial reduction from the government to neuter their cats - something like $40.- - and they still don't neuter their cats. This makes me angry. BUT: Sometimes there are reasons to have kittens. Please don't let us become sectarian! If some people had not been irresponsible I would not have got two lovely kittens... BUT: It hurts me too when people get a pet and then don't want it anymore after some years. I think that's very cruel since the pets form bonds too. Please feel free to add to this discussion. Carola >| My > | cats are healthy indoor cats, and yes I will breed them again one day, [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Carola Yes Carola, I agree that its terrible how people take a pet on and do not look after it, I paid a lot of money for my kittens, and I feed them on the best foods, inc homemade raw diet too. My own children have grown up and left home, so I kind of treat my cats as my babies not forgetting they are cats! :-) Nothing is too much for my cats, they are all very well looked after and have cat towers, scratch posts, toys all over the place, they have all got their own litter trays, which are cleaned almost as soon as they are used. When I bred my litter last year I made sure I had all the correct equipment to make sure they were warm and healthy, inc a heater, as central heating was too dry in the room I used. I had a weaning box made, so it was draft free and easy to clean. I also made sure both my Female and the stud I took her to had a snap blood test done before hand. When it came down to advertising, I was very strict in who brought my kittens, I wanted to know they were going to good loving homes, and turned down loads of brief emails saying only few simple words... e.g How much? they were all vet checked at 8 wks and left me at 14 weeks as I didn't want them leaving Christmas week, too much going on in people homes to settle a young kitten in. Mine went in pairs so I felt happier :-) They are all doing very well, and are chilled, relaxed cats now, but I can't stress enough how I said if ever you can't keep them for any reason, bring them straight back to me Soozy > When I bred my litter last year ...and you're a backyard breeder to boot! Its no wonder you got flamed! I would've flamed you, too! >> When I bred my litter last year > > ...and you're a backyard breeder to boot! Its no wonder you got flamed! > I > would've flamed you, too! what do you mean by a back yard breeder? > Please feel free to add to this discussion. I've already weighed in with my stand on breeding. I do have to wonder about a breeder who says they don't give a sh.t about all the other cats being put to death. It's selfish and ignorant. One big planet folks. If you can't care about life than get the hell off. AG >> Please feel free to add to this discussion. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > AG Cats homes in our area are really well looked after places, most state they NEVER put a healthy cats down! in all our supermarkets, vets, and pet shops there are dustbins, so we can put dog/cat food in them. Many of the local shops sponsor Cat Homes, there are also loads of foster homes out there too. You can sponsor a cat so you have whatever you can afford paid into their a/c each month and you receive a picture, and an update about the cat. Make a cool Christmas present. We have second hand shops where people donate all their un wanted things too There are many things you can do to help out, animal rescue homes. Without adopting a cat if you wish. > >> Please feel free to add to this discussion. > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > There are many things you can do to help out, > animal rescue homes. Without adopting a cat if you wish. That's not what EN said. He/she/it said "I don't give a damn about the cats in the shelters". This person is breeding (well, pretending to as a troll). You really think people on a group dedicated to the species is going to be nice to someone who says they don't give a damn about the species except for the ones in their home? AG I > the owner of 3 Ragdoll cats... so I was told I am responsible of the dead of > 3 sheltered kittens!!! ....which is probably true, or at the very least, 3 cats that would have had a home. Maybe that's why it bothered you so much. The conscience is a bitch, aint it? > I >> the owner of 3 Ragdoll cats... so I was told I am responsible of the dead [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > a home. Maybe that's why it bothered you so much. The conscience is a > bitch, aint it? no I have no guilty conscience about having 3 Ragdoll cats, I would not of got 3 rescue cats as I wanted Ragdolls or nothing! It bothers me why certain people have to be so nasty instead of trying to explain why its better to go to a shelter first, and not to breed! It bothers me why >certain people have to be so nasty instead of trying to explain why its >better to go to a shelter first, and not to breed! So, in other words SooZy, what you're saying is that you need/prefer to have things spelled out for you? -bonbon bonbon not@taking.replies writes >in other words SooZy, what you're >saying is that you need/prefer >to have things spelled out for you? Better than taking a club ant bashing in the head of someone who doesn't agree with you. Seems some people in here would prefer that! > bonbon not@taking.replies writes > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > agree > with you. Seems some people in here would prefer that! it get you no where > bonbon not@taking.replies writes > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Better than taking a club ant bashing in the head of someone who doesn't agree > with you. Seems some people in here would prefer that! We've had this "if you would just be nice more people would listen" debate before. It's not true. First off...it's words..and not even spoken words. These are typed opinions that appear on your computer screen and if you feel like you have been bashed over the head than you probably have bigger issues. No one is screaming at you..and btw..most people were perfectly nice to EN in that original thread....it was the one who came back with that long drawn out abusive rant. You don't see me calling her a stupid bitch etc. You and Soozy both need to grow some thicker skin, especially if you are going to promote unpopular ideas like breeding and de-clawing in a group of people who love animals enough to care about what happens to the entire population..not just the ones in our homes. Besides...would talking to you nice really change your mind or does it just make you feel better about the decisions you have already made? AG >> bonbon not@taking.replies writes >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > drawn out abusive rant. You don't see me calling her a stupid > bitch etc. Well I came in the middle of this topic, so I am sorry I haven't read every thing that was written, It just annoys me why people have to start name throwing, being so abusive when it goes straight over people heads, showing the facts sites and pictures of what its really like will surely do more good. A bit like educating yourself as we did at school! > You and Soozy both need to grow some thicker skin, especially > if you are going to promote unpopular ideas like breeding > and de-clawing in a group of people who love animals enough Its illegal to declaw in this country thank god! and don't even go there with that! its damn right cruel..... > to care about what happens to the entire population..not > just the ones in our homes. Besides...would talking to you > nice really change your mind or does it just make you feel To be honest yes with certain people it would be! I am a Manager and if I yell at my staff when they get things wrong, it gets me no where, however if I take the time to guide, show and teach them, I get a lot more respect and more out of them. > better about the decisions you have already made? I haven't bred my Ragdolls since August 2003 it was my first litter, all the cats I have had up till then were always neutured by our vets, or before we brought them home. As I stated in a previous post, seeing that picture of those poor cats and dogs in the bins really upset me, maybe I won't bred again, but its pictures, and reading sites like that that make me think twice, no people being abusive to me! e.g. Soozy I know the thought of bringing kittens in to the world seems appealing but have you seen the pictures sites that show what happens to so many cats and dogs http://www.townonline.com/pembroke/news/local_regional/pem_newpmabusedcats051420 03.htm did google search abused cats first thing that came up! > AG SooZy wrote in message ... >>> bonbon not@taking.replies writes >>> [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > >> AG Now let's all watch Miss high-and-mighty AG run and adopt all those cats - since she's such a savior of life! > >> bonbon not@taking.replies writes > >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > the facts sites and pictures of what its really like will surely do more > good. A bit like educating yourself as we did at school! The name calling etc was on the supposed breeders end. When it became clear is was just another troll the group got to having a bit of fun..that's all. > > You and Soozy both need to grow some thicker skin, especially > > if you are going to promote unpopular ideas like breeding > > and de-clawing in a group of people who love animals enough > > Its illegal to declaw in this country thank god! and don't even go there > with that! its damn right cruel..... I was using that as an example because the last time someone brought up the "you should be nicer" argument, that's was the subject. > > to care about what happens to the entire population..not > > just the ones in our homes. Besides...would talking to you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I take the time to guide, show and teach them, I get a lot more respect and > more out of them. That's not a very accurate analogy. First off, you are PAID to get the most out of your employees. Secondly, they are PAID to listen to you and lastly the subject of your training is not likely to to be an emotional one such as breeding. I have a degree in business and have managed large manufacturing staffs. Online debates aren't even close to being the same thing. > > better about the decisions you have already made? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > pictures, and reading sites like that that make me think twice, no people > being abusive to me! Again, I think your being a little thin skinned with the "abusive" part. Those pictures upset you right? Imagine dealing with the reality of those pictures on a regular basis. If you're upset imagine how upset those people would be. So if they come off as being harsh it's because it's a very harsh thing to have to deal with. And again..this is just typed words. You don't know these people, you don't work with them or live by them so what's the big deal? It's just an internet debate Soozy. Your use of the term "abusive" is way overboard.... It's just people using strong language regarding something they feel strongly about. No surprise there. AG > I haven't bred my Ragdolls since August 2003 it was my first litter, Did you research the breed and their pedigrees before you bought and bred your cats? - and I don't mean simply reading local book store cat books. Did you have your cats sonogramed (on a yearly basis) before you bred them so you wouldn't possibly increase the trait within the breed? http://www.ragdoll-cats.com/Cardio.htm > It bothers me why > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > -bonbon well I think educating people by showing them the figures, facts, pictures would surely make them more aware! here in UK you don't see/hear just how bad the situation is, obviously we know too many cats wind up in shelters but I wasn't aware that about a thousand cats get put down each day in the uk!!! I did see the terrible pictures of all those poor cats and dogs in those bins! it certainly made me think twice "would I really breed again" SooZy wrote in message ... >> I >>> the owner of 3 Ragdoll cats... so I was told I am responsible of the dead [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >got 3 rescue cats as I wanted Ragdolls or nothing! It bothers me why >certain people have to be so nasty They're retards Soozy. You can NOT expect normal behavior from a retard. Otherwise, there's something wrong with *you*. If this Phil character were so concerned about the shelter phenomenon, he would have adopted 2 or three kids (a MUCH higher priority) from foster homes. >instead of trying to explain why its >better to go to a shelter first, and not to breed! Shelter animals are 1. Drugged 2. Mutilated 3. Depressed or Psycho 4. Scheduled to die 5. Emotionally neglected, and 6. Physically hampered from being caged for God knows how long! There are many reasons (that can be derived from above) why a person wouldn't want a cat under these conditions - esp. with healthy normal cats or kids already in the home. > Shelter animals are > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 5. Emotionally neglected, and > 6. Physically hampered from being caged for God knows how long! ROTFLMAO! From where do you conjure up this utterly asinine moronic nonsense! From your posting style, I'd say the above describes *you* perfectly! > > Shelter animals are > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > nonsense! From your posting style, I'd say the above describes *you* > perfectly! Phil, you rock! Isn't that cute - the apes are picking lice off each other!! <PLONK> Jodie wrote in message ... >> > Shelter animals are >> > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >Phil, you rock! > Isn't that cute - the apes are picking lice off each other!! > > <PLONK> Well folks, there you have it - a living breathing example of the result of generations of inbreeding defective genes. There are no bad alleles in his family - he has them *all*! Btw, that ain't a she, its a he... or a hermafrodite... That's why it seems like he's frigid and impotent at the same time! > Jodie wrote in message ... > >> > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >> > >Phil, you rock! "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com writes >'....a living breathing example of the result of >generations of inbreeding >defective genes. There are no bad alleles in his >family - he has them *all*! >..that ain't a she, its a he... or a hermafrodite..." Dictionaries and/or spellcheck programs are not expensive. It's "hermaphrodite". > "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com > writes [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Dictionaries and/or spellcheck programs are not expensive. Yeah, I know, but its easier to just let you correct my spelling... and you're free! LOL! It's > "hermaphrodite". Thanks, Fil > > I > >> the owner of 3 Ragdoll cats... so I was told I am responsible of the dead [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > > no I have no guilty conscience about having 3 Ragdoll cats, You sure are lucky not to have a conscience! I would not of > got 3 rescue cats as I wanted Ragdolls or nothing! Then you're not a true cat lover - you don't love cats as a *species* - only a specific breed. Kinda like a racist, isn't it? >> > I >> >> the owner of 3 Ragdoll cats... so I was told I am responsible of the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > You sure are lucky not to have a conscience! why should I? I have had cats from rescue before, I'm 44 years old we have always had cats in our home. the Ragdolls where the first I ever brought! > I would not of >> got 3 rescue cats as I wanted Ragdolls or nothing! > > Then you're not a true cat lover - you don't love cats as a *species* - > only > a specific breed. Kinda like a racist, isn't it? I have 3 Ragdolls yes, but also I have a Moggie not from a shelter maybe from someone who didn't want her anymore, but yes I do love her as much as the others. > > I > >> the owner of 3 Ragdoll cats... so I was told I am responsible of the dead [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > certain people have to be so nasty instead of trying to explain why its > better to go to a shelter first, and not to breed! IF I get a cat, I'll take one of the cats home from work that attached itself to me. It used to be "wild" and we just kept feeding them and they grew attached to us. Will I go out and get a cat from a shelter? No. Why? Because I would only take the cat home if the boss says we can't have the cats at work anymore. |
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