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Cat Forum / General Topics / September 2004predicting color of cats offspring
We've got two white kitties with blue eyes and seal point markings. If they mate, and please let us know and I know you will, if it's okay for brother and sister to mate, will the offspring be white with blue eyes, similar to the parents? I would assume that blue eyes and white color are recessive traits, but I'm not sure at all, so I'm asking you guys. Thanks. : -) > We've got two white kitties with blue eyes and > seal point markings. If they mate, and please let [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > are recessive traits, but I'm not sure at all, so > I'm asking you guys. Thanks. : -) No, it's not ok to let brother and sister mate. Your odds of having kittens with a multitude of health problems is pretty high. Secondly..there is no way to accurately predict the color or markings of the offspring. If you breed purebred cats and know the lineage you can make a really good guess...but even then you get the occasional surprise. My foster cat was a grey striped tabby. She had 4 kittens, one with seal point markings, one white with blue eyes, one calico and one all black...go figure. More importantly...hundreds of cats are killed every day because their aren't homes for them. Non pure bred cats...even ones that look like seal points....are pretty common in shelters all over the place. It will costs you more to breed them then you will ever get out of it financially and if you or someone you know wants a cat with those particular markings the most expedient (and best) way to get one is to go to the shelters and save a life. Spay and neuter your kitties now. AG : > We've got two white kitties with blue eyes and : > seal point markings. If they mate, and please let [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] : : AG We never, never thought of making money from this. My wife found homes for 16 kittens one weekend last month, and felt that the people were good and she screened them. These cats are so special its hard to describe. It's really about temperament and their attachment to us. It would be nice if their offspring looks like them but that's not that important, especially after the kittens arrive, but if what you say is true and I think it probably is, then we won't be doing this because of the gene thing. Thanks : -) "formerly known as 'cat arranger'" <goodidea1950SPAM-SPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:7lv2d.301070> > We never, never thought of making money from > this. My wife found homes for 16 kittens one weekend [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I think it probably is, then we won't be doing this because > of the gene thing. Thanks : -) I understand having an animal so special to you that you want to breed it...really. My pedigree golden retriever had the best temperment of any dog I had ever come across ...even for a golden. I just knew her puppies would be ultra special and I would easily fnd great homes for them. Here's the thing. There are a lot of ultra special dogs in the pound with a death sentence because there just aren't enough homes. I would do better, (as would your wife) to find homes for those dogs than to breed even more. Seriously...take a trip to your local animal shelter and meet some of those animals. If your goal is to give great animals homes than you will find an unending source for those animals in cages at your local shelter. AG : "formerly known as 'cat arranger'" <goodidea1950SPAM-SPAM@hotmail.com> wrote : in message news:7lv2d.301070> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] : : AG We've decided to not do this. As far as getting animals from the pound though, we haven't had much luck. This with cats. We have had very good luck with feral cats, ie kittens. We've done a few TNR, but the way the local shelter butchers their ears is hard to take. I know I'm a wussy, but it just bothers me. The cats I've loved the most are the two that had kittens in our home. We found homes for all of the kittens. The mothers both seemed to appreciate so much the attention that I paid to her and the kittens. It might be the most intense bonding I've ever had with an animal. They both raised their kittens under out bed and I could reach under the headboard and position the babies on the mother's nipple. They both were like so grateful. And they seemed to trust me to take care of the babies when they went out for a break. But like I said, we've decided not to mate them. I posted to another group and got a detailed answer from a vet who even more strongly stated the negatives. >We've got two white kitties with blue eyes and >seal point markings. If they mate, and please let >us know and I know you will, if it's okay for >brother and sister to mate, will the offspring be >white with blue eyes, similar to the parents? Yeesh. No, it's not okay for a brother-sister mating. If you knew their pedigrees inside and out, including all health details going back 10 gens or so, it *might* be okay to do a linebreeding this close, but only if there was some incredible recessive feature that needed to be locked in. >I would assume that blue eyes and white color >are recessive traits, but I'm not sure at all, so >I'm asking you guys. Thanks. : -) Yes the traits are recessive, but it's still not a good idea to mate these cats. Honestly, before you get into breeding at all, you need to learn a lot more about genetics and your chosen breed, as well as knowing more about exhibiting and the necessary genetic health testing that needs to be done before breeding cats. Orchid See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid Please, don't mate brother and sister! I had a cat that came from siblings (I didn't know until recently), and she just died at the age of 9 from congenital kidney problems. This is a terrible idea! (and to be honest, a little gross!) : Please, don't mate brother and sister! I had a cat that came from siblings : (I didn't know until recently), and she just died at the age of 9 from : congenital kidney problems. : : This is a terrible idea! (and to be honest, a little gross!) It's not gross to me, but it is seriously sounding like a bad genetically. We aren't thinking about breeding though, just one litter because my wife wants them to experience, well the female, motherhood, and it would just be so cool to see how they get along as parents, they sleep with each other almost all of the time and are very affectionate. They were feral and after being separated from their mother had only each other. > Orchid > See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage > Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid Wow, what beautiful animals! >> Orchid >> See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage >> Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid > >Wow, what beautiful animals! Thanks. :) We loves them forever, we does. ;) Orchid See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid > We've got two white kitties with blue eyes and > seal point markings. If they mate, and please let [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > are recessive traits, but I'm not sure at all, so > I'm asking you guys. Thanks. : -) Since white cats with blue eyes have a very high incidence of deafness, it's not a great idea to breed even non family members. It's the worst possible idea to breed two white kitties with blue eyes that are brother and sister! THE WORST! Not only will the deafness issue be reinforced, unless you know the pedigree of your cats several generations back, there are probably other health issues that would receive a double whammy on the genetic front. Things like heart disease, cancer, and severe allergies that can affect them as young adults. Not to mention outright deformities that either kill the kittens in utero or while they are still kittens. Do you know how many animals are put to death in shelters every year? We're a very small shelter serving a small community, and we put to death over 75 animals each year. The larger metropolitan shelter in the city just north of us puts that many cats to death every day. Every day. Most of these cats are from people who either have "oops" litters because they didn't spay and neuter their cats soon enough, or because they were pet owner who bred their animals deliberately for the worst possible reasons. The worst possible reasons include trying to create more cats like the parents, especially when neither are registered. Every single kitten produced by back yard breeders means that a kitten in a shelter somewhere dies because those kittens find homes and the shelter kittens don't. And, unless you know a whole lot about how to screen potential adoptors, your kittens might be ones that end up in a shelter and dead as well. You like white cats with blue eyes? I see them every day. Mostly they're siamese mix somewhere along the way, and our itty bitty shelter has two right now. It's not unusual or special, except to the owners. And, like I said, a lot of health problems go along with them. I know that personally. I have a siamese mix white kitty with blue eyes and he's deaf in one ear. Get your animals fixed, and do it now. Cats can get pregnant as early as 5 months, so time is critical. Do it before sexual maturity, because all those hormones increase the chances of cancer and you certainly don't need do that, as that's also higher in white cats with blue eyes. If you need financial assistance to have this done, then look at www.spay.usa.org/ for direction to a low cost vet in your area. : > We've got two white kitties with blue eyes and : > seal point markings. If they mate, and please let [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] : financial assistance to have this done, then look at www.spay.usa.org/ for : direction to a low cost vet in your area. I'm convinced and I'm sure my wife will be too. Thanks. On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 20:29:21 GMT, "Sunflower" < >Since white cats with blue eyes have a very high incidence of deafness, Sometimes, it is possible if these cats are pointed that they are carrying the gene for Siamese Blue Eyes and will not be deaf. That doesn't mean I think that breeding them is a good idea. :) http://www.messybeast.com/whitecat.htm There is an established link between the white coat color, blue eyes and deafness. The deafness is linked to the gene for blue-eye(s) Not all blue-eyed whites will be deaf since there are several different genes causing the same physical attributes (whiteness, blue-eyedness) so it all depends on the cat's genotype (its genetic make-up) not its phenotype (its physical appearance). If the cat is a Foreign/Oriental White, it carries the gene for 'Siamese Blue Eyes' which is not linked to deafness (the gene for Siamese Blue Eyes is linked to cross-eyes instead). Siamese blue eyes lack a reflective tapetum and give red-eye with flash cameras. Random matings can mean that this gene sometimes appears in non Oriental-looking cats which have colorpoint cats in their ancestry. : On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 20:29:21 GMT, "Sunflower" < : > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] : gene sometimes appears in non Oriental-looking cats which have : colorpoint cats in their ancestry. Geez, that is one of the most informative posts I've ever gotten. The color really wasn't important though, just that they are so sweet and both used to be feral kitties that it would be nice to have a little family that looked like each other. We have decided not to do this though, honest. If the white cats, Killer and Snobol, have red eye then they are probably Siamese white, interesting. We call them K & S because one of them bit me really hard and almost broke my knuckle while they were becoming non-feral. I didn't know which one it was so we named one Killer, but we don't know which one it is. So when we talk about them it's either Snobol with the crooked tail or Snobol with the straight tale, or Killer with the crooked tail... : -) It's kind of hard for me to believe how sweet and unafraid they have become. They are now the nicest cats we have, and we have a bunch. They both sit on top of one of the arms of a couch and wait for people to walk by and pet them. They aren't even afraid of people's feet and they both come when we call, especially if we make a little distressed kitty noise that they used to make to each other when they were younger and only trusted each other. For people who think cats aren't individuals and don't have personalities... you wouldn't think so after 3 minutes at our house. In article <8E33d.325089$Oi.73780@fed1read04>, goodidea1950SPAM-SPAM@hotmail.com (formerly known as 'cat arranger') wrote: > For people who think cats aren't individuals and don't have > personalities... you wouldn't think so after 3 minutes at our > house. These are people who have never been near a cat (-: | We've got two white kitties with blue eyes and | seal point markings. If they mate, and please let | us know and I know you will, if it's okay for | brother and sister to mate, will the offspring be | white with blue eyes, similar to the parents? It's not okay. > We've got two white kitties with blue eyes and > seal point markings. If they mate, and please let [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > are recessive traits, but I'm not sure at all, so > I'm asking you guys. Thanks. : -) Good god. Do you think it would be ok to mate with your sibling? Get your cats neutered, pronto. -L. |
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