Cat Forum / General Topics / August 2004
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M.C. Mullen - 29 Jul 2004 12:20 GMT Hi all, this story will keep you going, it certainly keeps *me* going ... The story of this summer! One week ago my ex stray/feral Minka disappeared. I could not believe it, my Munggie who never left the house except at nighttimes when she needed her daily mouse. It was clear to me that she was gone forever and I got a kitten, Cinderella (Cindy), instead. Today I received a call that some dogs had chased Minka across the motorway, and that she has been seen in the gardening plots over there several times (1 mile from our home). Well, I grabbed the cat crate and went looking for her twice so far - no Minka. I will be going again late this evening and early next morning, good that I am on holidays. If I can't get her by myself I will ask the cat rescue service for help. Has anybody any good tips? I'll keep you updated.
Carola
^..^ ~~ , =´`= ___ ) (_
Luvskats00 - 29 Jul 2004 17:50 GMT "M.C. Mullen" mcmullen@freesurf.invalid.ch writes
>One week ago my ex stray/feral Minka disappeared. I could not believe = >it, my Munggie who never left the house except at nighttimes when she = [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >next morning, good that I am on holidays. If I can't get her by myself I = >will ask the cat rescue service for help. Your cat disappears for a week and your response is to get a replacement cat? Any reason trhat for the 7 days/one week following the disappearance of the cat you weren't actively looking for the cat? One week and you're off getting another cat? Sounds like you accidently tossed the throw pillow out and bought another to decorate the sofa! No mention of door to doo r alerts to inquire about your cat's whereabouts....no signs posted...no contact with local pet shelters or veterinarians...nothing. You didn't mourn/grieve for the cat waiting for the return at all. It's good that you got another cat - but the way you conveyed it..you didn't think much of trying to locate the poor missing cat. I hope this is not an accurate portrayal of the situation.
M.C. Mullen - 30 Jul 2004 03:53 GMT | "M.C. Mullen" mcmullen@freesurf.invalid.ch | writes [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] | way you conveyed it..you didn't think much of trying to locate the poor missing | cat. I hope this is not an accurate portrayal of the situation. Door to door enquiries, posters, telephone calls, looking at the place where they dump dead cats ... We were close to getting a kitten anyway, but I was so sad that I decided to get it to cheer me up. You see, this cat never goes far or across roads or into strange homes. When she didn't come in when it rained I knew something was wrong. But thank you for your stern words. I guess one can learn not to rule out the impossible or to even look for it. Who would think she had crossed the motorway - the very cat who really minds the cars? It's five in the morning now, I'm away to try attempt # 6. I have not even seen her so far. Tonight we'll set the trap, but she knows it, she was in it before.
Carola
Luvskats00 - 30 Jul 2004 14:17 GMT M C Mullen mcmullen@freesurf.invalid.ch writes
>..the very cat who really minds the cars?... Cats are not born knowing the difference between red & green traffic signals, walk/don't walk signs nor which way to look before crossing - let alone, knowing that they can be mowed down within seconds. That's why I pointed out that we only know from what you had written...no previous info about your search for your cat..your grief, etc...the way you posted, it appeared that you lost your cat, ho hum..got another cat..etc. I'm glad this wasn't the case.
Don't give up the search...try to search several times during the day/evening. Don't rule out any type of spot....any poster you put up should include mention of a reward. Please keep us posted.
m. L. Briggs - 30 Jul 2004 06:15 GMT >X-No-Archive:yes > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > =´`= ___ ) > (_ M.C. Mullen - 31 Jul 2004 13:32 GMT | >Hi all, | >this story will keep you going, it certainly keeps *me* going ... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | > | >A number of years ago, I rescued a big all white cat. Long story how, so I'll skip it. However, she was approximately two miles from her home. The story has found an end, but a tragic one. Minka came home about one week ago (I knew she would, if she could!) But she didn't make it home. She crossed the motorway successfully but must have got hit by a car on the not very busy road nearby. A friend found her in her shed this morning. She must have been dead for some days. We think she was injured and went there to die. I'm very sad. "Minka, I have never had a cat so rewarding like you were. You were a difficult stray in the beginning, but you soon turned into a proper lap cat. And you were extremely thankful for everything. I'll always miss you."
Does anybody know why it's possible that a cat and a car can be at the same spot at the same time? Btw for all who object to me and my neighbourhood letting the cats out: My neighbours have two cats about 17 years old and two other cats nearby lived until they were around 20, and there are loads of other oldish cats here too.
Carola
Fan - 31 Jul 2004 21:25 GMT >X-No-Archive:yes > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Carola I am very sorry for your loss. This is indeed a sad ending.
There is a continuing debate on whether it is better to let a cat out alone, or not. There are people who are very stong on one side or the other. The only thing that I can not tolerate is those who are totally self-richeous and will tell others that there is an absolute answer to this debate and that answer is whatever that person believes.
There are pros and cons to letting a cat out. Anyone who says different is at least a fool and probably worse than that.
Luvskats00 - 01 Aug 2004 02:55 GMT >There are pros and cons to letting a cat out. Anyone who says >different is at least a fool and probably worse than that. I'd say that if one does the math..and a bit of research, one had to conclude that - unless there is no danger within 20 miles (cars, wild animals/dogs, toxic substances, cruel people, etc.) - then one should keep their cat(s) inside. So many posts have been written about pets cats who either were let outside on purpose or who have escaped by accident. A significant number of those who post DO report sad tidings about the death - painful many times - of their beloved pet. Is it worth it? It can't possibly be worth it. Watch a month's worth of Animal Planets' "Emergency Vets" and see how many cats are brought in (to die) because they were hit by a car or bitten by a dog or convulsing after drinking antifreeze from a leaking car)....read archived posts in feline newsgroups to see how many report the same thing OR that there cat simply disappears. They don't even know what happened to their cats.
Sherry - 01 Aug 2004 04:55 GMT >>There are pros and cons to letting a cat out. Anyone who says >>different is at least a fool and probably worse than that. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >in feline newsgroups to see how many report the same thing OR that there cat >simply disappears. They don't even know what happened to their cats. So you've researched this? Don't you think twenty miles is a bit absurd?
Sherry
Luvskats00 - 01 Aug 2004 11:02 GMT sriddles@aol.comkitty (Sherry ) writes
luvkats00 wrote
>"....unless there is no danger within >20 miles (cars, wild animals/dogs, >toxic substances, cruel people, >etc.) - then one should keep their >cat(s) inside. So many posts have >been written about pets cats who >either were let outside on purpose >or who have escaped by accident. >A significant number of those who >post DO report sad tidings about >the death - painful many times -
>of their beloved pet. Is it worth it? >It can't possibly be worth it. Watch >a month's worth of Animal Planets' >"Emergency Vets" and see how >many cats are brought in (to die) >because they were hit by a car or >bitten by a dog or
>convulsing after drinking antifreeze >from a leaking car)....read >archived posts
>in feline newsgroups to see how many report the same thing OR that their cat >simply disappears. They don't >even know what happened to their >cats.
>>So you've researched this? Don't >>you think twenty miles is a bit >absurd? Absurd? No....what's qbsurd is that this topic has been active year after year....posts have been written year after year (chronicling the death of cats who were accidently/purposely let outside.) Some newsgroup veterans respond from time to time and others (who have been recently introduced to the newsgroup or the subject add to the posts.
As previously mentioned, those who have been reading and/or responding in the groups have read a significant number of posts from people who are now grieving because their pet died while outside. Why play Russian roulette with your (beloved) cat's life?
Sherry - 01 Aug 2004 13:37 GMT >As previously mentioned, those who have been reading and/or responding in the >groups have read a significant number of posts from people who are now >grieving > because their pet died while outside. Why play Russian roulette with your >(beloved) cat's life? And, on the other side of the coin, why confine them indoors when the risk factor isn't great enough to warrant doing so? (and, yes, twenty miles *is* absurd. Cats do not travel that far) Look outside your own four walls and realize that there are environments perfectly conducive to letting a cat safely I could assume that your cats are poor, bored, overweight creatures who sit alone in a dank, dark apartment all day with no stimulation or exercise, or sunshine. But I don't--I've never seen your environment and wouldn't presume to make that judgment. Some people *shouldn't* let their cats out. Emphasis on "some". Sherry
Silver - 04 Aug 2004 12:47 GMT > sriddles@aol.comkitty (Sherry ) > writes [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > because their pet died while outside. Why play Russian roulette with your > (beloved) cat's life? As I have said before - I am an indoor advocate. I also realise that I keep them inside for my own peace of mind and make sure that they get the stimulation, sunshine, fresh grass and exercise they need. However, if someone wants to keep their cat outside (it's still legal as far as I know), then it is ridiculous to assume that a cat will live a better life indoors. A cat that is able to roam will lead a fuller, if more dangerous life, and as they do not go about constantly in fear of their lives despite the dangers around them, a perfectly acceptable life if people want to take the chance. Funny that we frown on caging wildlife, yet insist on caging cats. Is the wild birds life any worse for the dangers it faces daily? Would you willing take away its freedom so you are sure that it is safe? Is an elephant better off in a zoo than in the wild? We keep our cats inside primarily for ourselves. We love them, we want to protect them. That is the only reason. If a cat cared how dangerous the world was outside then we wouldn't have to lock them up in the first place. I recently lost a cat, he was desexed and an indoor cat. He had a blocked bladder caused by a blood clot. A month and many vet bills later, he had recovered but became fully paralysed in the hind legs. He was in pain, there was fluid on his lungs and we opted to have him put out of his agony. It turned out that he had a congenital heart defect. My mother's cat died of a tumour. A friends cat too, died of cancer. Another incident occured when theives broke into a house and obviously hated cats. I will not go into the details of that one as it is way too upsetting.I am sure that there are lots more stories of inside cats that have died painful deaths. I am not trying to push for outside cats, but I am trying to push for peoples rights to make their own choices. In my experience, I have lost more outside than inside cats, and keep all of my cats inside. This does not, however, mean that they are completely safe. Just doing my bit to see both sides of the story. -Silver "I love cats because I enjoy my home; & little by little, they become its visible soul."
- Jean Cocteau 1889-1963.
Sherry - 04 Aug 2004 20:24 GMT >As I have said before - I am an indoor advocate. I also realise that I keep >them inside >for my own peace of mind and make sure that they get the stimulation, >sunshine, fresh grass >and exercise they need. Good for you. It's very important to do so. Cats are very adaptable, and can live quite happily indoors, but they need windows and excercise and stimulation.
snipped A cat
>that is able to roam will lead a fuller, if more dangerous life, and as they >do not go about constantly in >fear of their lives despite the dangers around them, a perfectly acceptable >life if people want to take the chance. That was kind of my point. It comes down to *how much* of a chance, or risk, the cat faces by being let outdoors. *Everybody's* cat shouldn't stay indoors as a blanket rule, IMO. All cats should stay indoors at night *is* a blanket rule, also IMO. It would be foolish for me to keep my cats locked indoors all day. There's just not enough risk factor. Here's a photo of my house. http://members.aol.com/jjrich0523/house.jpg They *like* climbing trees, chasing grasshoppers, or just lying under a bush. I'm glad they can do that. If I moved tomorrow to the city, though, I admit their yard-cat days would be abruptly over.
Sherry
M.C. Mullen - 05 Aug 2004 11:19 GMT | Here's a photo of my house. | http://members.aol.com/jjrich0523/house.jpg [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | | Sherry This is *beautiful*! Are you farmers? Have you got more pets/animals? Any horses?
Carola
Sherry - 05 Aug 2004 17:03 GMT >This is *beautiful*! >Are you farmers? Have you got more pets/animals? Any horses? > >Carola No, just cats :-) It used to be a farm with horses, cattle, and a couple of cash crops (peanuts, wheat, watermelons). My dad got too old, and there's really no money in it anymore considering you're working yourself to death. DH has a regular job so all we have now is a regular vegetable garden.
Sherry
Silver - 06 Aug 2004 01:58 GMT > >As I have said before - I am an indoor advocate. I also realise that I keep > >them inside [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > I'm glad they can do that. If I moved tomorrow to the city, though, I admit > their yard-cat days would be abruptly over. You have a lovely house. I am sure your cats love it too.
-Silver I love cats because I enjoy my home; & little by little, they become its visible soul.
- Jean Cocteau 1889-1963.
Sherry - 06 Aug 2004 02:14 GMT >You have a lovely house. I am sure your cats love it too. > >-Silver Well, thanks, but the photo makes the house look better than it really does :) What I meant to illustrate was how isolated we are. I've been whammed on newsgroups before for letting the cats out. Some people just don't get that it's just not a blanket rule for everybody. If I honestly thought it was not safe, I wouldn't let them out.
Sherry
Silver - 06 Aug 2004 02:42 GMT > >You have a lovely house. I am sure your cats love it too. > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > it's just not a blanket rule for everybody. If I honestly thought it was not > safe, I wouldn't let them out. As long as you are happy and they are happy - I cannot see the problem :)
-Silver
I love cats because I enjoy my home; & little by little, they become its visible soul.
- Jean Cocteau 1889-1963.
Luvskats00 - 01 Aug 2004 11:08 GMT Oh..I forgot to directly respond to the question ">So you've researched this? Don't >you think twenty miles is a bit >absurd?
20 miles may have been selected as an arbitrary number.....15 miles...25 miles....or more, if you'd like. The point is: the topic has been actively discussed year after year. Research has been done (on Google, for example). I also based some of my responses - throughout the years - on documentation from Animal Planet's "Emergency Vet" episodes and my personal experiences as a veterinary assistant, cat shelter volunteer worker and animal rescue volunteer.
Sherry - 01 Aug 2004 13:43 GMT >20 miles may have been selected as an arbitrary number.....15 miles...25 >miles....or more, if you'd like. Your post mention that you'd researched this, and was wondering what criteria led to the "20-mile" guideline.
Sherry
Silver - 04 Aug 2004 12:27 GMT > >>There are pros and cons to letting a cat out. Anyone who says > >>different is at least a fool and probably worse than that. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > So you've researched this? Don't you think twenty miles is a bit absurd? When you consider that the average cat can roam many miles, I don't think 20 miles is too absurd - maybe an overstatement - but better to err on the side of care...
-Silver "I love cats because I enjoy my home; & little by little, they become its visible soul."
- Jean Cocteau 1889-1963.
AC - 04 Aug 2004 22:39 GMT Humans all endure the same dangers at the expense of living their life to the full. Would you like someone to wrap you in cotton wool, and forbid you to leave the house? I think not...
Some cats will get lost/hurt, That's life.
There's also a lot of other good reasons to keep them inside (wildlife, etc.) but a nice bell & ID on the collar can fix that.
> >There are pros and cons to letting a cat out. Anyone who says > >different is at least a fool and probably worse than that. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > in feline newsgroups to see how many report the same thing OR that there cat > simply disappears. They don't even know what happened to their cats. M.C. Mullen - 05 Aug 2004 07:54 GMT | Humans all endure the same dangers at the expense of living their life to | the full. Would you like someone to wrap you in cotton wool, and forbid you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] | There's also a lot of other good reasons to keep them inside (wildlife, | etc.) but a nice bell & ID on the collar can fix that. If I'm going to lose any more cats on the road I will give away all our cat equipment to the shelter and help them with their work as a hobby and to make up for the fact that I have no more cats. The loss of Minka has thrown me into a major life crisis. It does no harm to reconsider one's life every now and again, but it's not really a nice experience either. One other option would be to get a cat that has only lived indoors but for some reason needs a new home. Maybe that one would not walk away. I can't fence in my whole garden, it's too big, but that of course would be the best option.
Carola
Luvskats00 - 05 Aug 2004 12:21 GMT >"There's also a lot of other good >reasons to keep them inside >(wildlife, >| etc.) but a nice bell & ID on the >collar can fix that. Just as there are people who actually believe that neutering/spaying their cat - but letting their cat outside to roam - there are people who zealously protest against anyone who declares that cats are safer inside than outside.
For some reason, these people - who never did a bit of research, reason or logic in their lives - conveniently forget or won't allow the thought that cats have been domesticated for centuries. Cats MUST be let outside. If the cats eat insecticide from a garden or lap up leaking coolant from a car..well, that's life; if the cat gets run over by a speeding car, time to get another cat; if cat doesn't come home for another reason...well...at least the cat was happy while alive!
No logic, quotes from experts, documentation will change their minds.
Silver - 06 Aug 2004 02:02 GMT > >"There's also a lot of other good >reasons to keep them inside >(wildlife, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > No logic, quotes from experts, documentation will change their minds. Maybe we should be concentrating instead on what we have in common - cats!
-Silver I love cats because I enjoy my home; & little by little, they become its visible soul.
- Jean Cocteau 1889-1963.
Sherry - 05 Aug 2004 14:44 GMT >If I'm going to lose any more cats on the road I will give away all our cat >equipment to the shelter and help them with their work as a hobby and to >make up for the fact that I have no more cats. Carola, don't give up on having a cat. You have too big a heart to do that. There's a cat out there somewhere that needs you, and I am sure he/she'll find you. There are special needs cats who for various reasons *can't* go outdoors. And, like you said, there may be an indoor-only raised cat needing a home. In the heat of the thread, and the accusatory tone of one of the posters in the beginning, I failed to tell you how sorry I am about Minke. I know you miss her dreadfully. Sherry
Silver - 06 Aug 2004 01:57 GMT > Humans all endure the same dangers at the expense of living their life to > the full. Would you like someone to wrap you in cotton wool, and forbid you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > There's also a lot of other good reasons to keep them inside (wildlife, > etc.) but a nice bell & ID on the collar can fix that. Believe me, I have plenty of good reasons to keep my cats inside. Besides the fact that the road directly in front of our house is a speeding zone and I have seen at least one dead bird, possum, fox, dog or cat dead on the road, I have had two cats trapped by neighbours and disposed of even though they were wearing bells, collars and ID tags. A cat I had a few years back was a very good hunter despite the bell she always had on her collar. She brought back birds, snakes, lizards and huge rats. My sisters cat, bell also, brought back baby hares and one day even a galah. I was always saving birds from my cat and was unable to keep her inside because my ex was allergic to cats and forbid it. I did lock them up at night time though. I have heard many stories about cats being maliciously treated by cat-hating neighbours and even had one neighbour in court over threats to kill my cats because they went into her yard. She also threatened to bait my dogs which were not even in her yard. This same neighbour thought nothing of killing a snake, or spraying chemicals around here house to kill spiders (and inadvertantly green tree frogs and geckos). The longest I have owned an outdoor cat is seven years (which was only the one). One average they would live 2-3 years. My cat is an oriental x burmese and has a habit of attacking dogs rather than running from them. This nearly became her downfall when she escaped one day and was simultanously attacked by 3 dogs at once. How she got out of it (with barely a scratch too) I do not know. Another cat I owned expected cars to stop for her as she strolled leisurely across the road. One cat had a habit of inviting itself into peoples houses, another would let any complete stranger pat him and pick him up. It might be 'life' to lose a cat, but as they cannot make informed decisions most of the time regarding what is safe and what is not - I tend to protect them. They are happy, they display no abnormal stress-related behaviour, purr a lot, play a lot, bask in the sun, do not get into fights, cost us less at the vet on average and I know they are most likely to be safe. If I lived in the country-side, I would consider letting them out during the day, but while I am in town that is not an option for me.
Gene Royer - 01 Aug 2004 19:56 GMT > >X-No-Archive:yes > > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > There are pros and cons to letting a cat out. Anyone who says > different is at least a fool and probably worse than that. Are you *absolutely* sure about that?
--Geno
Silver - 04 Aug 2004 12:23 GMT > >X-No-Archive:yes > > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > self-richeous and will tell others that there is an absolute answer to > this debate and that answer is whatever that person believes. I am on the indoor-cat side of the fence myself, but I never force my opinions on anyone. I have had both, and my ratio of inside cat deaths to outside cat deaths is way higher on the outdoor side. I guess I keep my cats in more for my own peace of mind than for any other reason, as I know outside cats live very full (if short) lives. We are home all of the time and our cats were raised indoor from kittenhood. I do not believe in locking up a cat that has been outdoors most of its life unless it is obviously happier this way. I also believe that a person should not keep a cat inside without plenty of interaction with humans or other cats and plenty of fresh grass. An outdoor pen would be ideal.
> There are pros and cons to letting a cat out. Anyone who says > different is at least a fool and probably worse than that. As I said, I worry too much for my cats if they are outside. We live in a country of cat-haters and part of this problem is because people don't know that their cats are bothering other people. Even a de-sexed female cat I once owned would walk into the neighbours house and attack their cat, in the middle of the day! I was unaware of this until I happened to become friends with the neighbour. My husbands father has had outside cats and refuses to lock them up but has tried to poison a tomcat which has been plauging him nightly! We do not know what our cats get up to. I don't think that cats should be locked up if the owner isn't happy to do so, but I think they should consider keeping them in at night, getting them desexed and be prepared for their cats to meet a possible untimely end. It's a horrible, cat-hating world out there guys, and cat lovers like us can do little to educate or prevent people from harming them.
m. L. Briggs - 31 Jul 2004 23:06 GMT >X-No-Archive:yes > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >I have witnessed this: The cat was crossing the road and was half way across when the fast car approached. Instead of running forward, the cat turned and ran back to where it started. This time it was lucky, but was missed only by a hair. I am told this is a common reaction in the cat. My condolences in the loss of Minka
Fan - 31 Jul 2004 07:40 GMT >X-No-Archive:yes > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > (_ > Go ahead and ask them for help. If they are decent people they will be happy to help you. They should well understand your concern and they should be experienced at trapping a cat, it is part of their job. They should do this without any thought of payment, but a donation to help their cause would be in order, even if they are not sucessful.
M.C. Mullen - 31 Jul 2004 14:09 GMT | >Hi all, | >this story will keep you going, it certainly keeps *me* going ... | >The story of this summer! | >One week ago my ex stray/feral Minka disappeared. I could not believe it, my Munggie who never left the house except at nighttimes when she needed her daily mouse. It was clear to me that she was gone forever and I got a kitten, Cinderella (Cindy), instead. Today I received a call that some dogs had chased Minka across the motorway, and that she has been seen in the gardening plots over there several times (1 mile from our home). Well, I grabbed the cat crate and went looking for her twice so far - no Minka. I will be going again late this evening and early next morning, good that I am on holidays. If I can't get her by myself I will ask the cat rescue service for help. Has anybody any good tips?
| >I'll keep you updated. | > | >Carola
| Go ahead and ask them for help. If they are decent people they will be | happy to help you. They should well understand your concern and they | should be experienced at trapping a cat, it is part of their job. They | should do this without any thought of payment, but a donation to help | their cause would be in order, even if they are not sucessful. You may have read the tragic end of my story. About the trapping: I got the cat from the animal rescue, they trapped her before, and they were very willing to let me have the trap or to help me. They told me that one needs to feed a cat for a while before you can trap it, especially in this case where she was trapped before. Another good point was to walk back home slowly, continuously calling the cat (and ignoring any strange looks!). Even if you don't see it, it might follow you as far as to the point where it knows the way home.
Carola
---MIKE--- - 05 Aug 2004 17:08 GMT Carola, I had an elderly tuxedo cat named "Ike" who I took in at the age of nine. He was used to going out so I couldn't keep him in. He always came back until one day in August, 1999 he didn't. I'll never know what happened to him. My road has no traffic but the house is surrounded by dense woods. I have seen moose, deer, bears and wild turkeys on my property and I once thought I saw a bobcat. After Ike was gone, I got Tiger who was 4 months old. He has never been out so doesn't fuss to go out. He does go to the door when I come in but never tries to dart out (like Ike sometimes did). I don't have to worry about fleas, ticks, predators, etc. You should get a cat from a shelter that has never been outside and keep him/her inside.
---MIKE---
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