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More on h0p, Misty, Sam, George, & Ceili (squamous cell carcinoma) & VPI

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Dee - 20 Jul 2004 22:22 GMT
Some of you will remember me & h0p :)  I thought I'd drop in and let you
know how we're all doing, as well as seeing how you all are doing.

h0p is doing well.  He has the occasional seizure, but hasn't had any of
the severe neurological episodes that were plaguing him for so long.  His
IBD is under control, and his liver, though damaged, seems it be holding
it's own.  He's become very vocal in letting me know what he wants and
when he wants it, and sleeps curled up next to my head at night.  This is
the feral cat who couldn't be touched :)

Misty was diagnosed hyperthyroid last January and just returned from her
treatments at RadioCat last Thursday.  It didn't slow her down for a
minute and she seems to be doing great.  She turned 12 on July 9th.

George, who turned 8 on the first of the month, has completely recovered
from the removal of his mast cell tumor.  All his hair has grown back, and
despite the expensive diet foods he's as ...well, let's say chubby, as
ever.

Sammy is HUGE and still sucks on my earlobe at night.  He's as healthy as
a horse and the size of one too!

Little Ceili (pronounced Kaylee), the stray we took in last fall, is
unfortunately very ill.  She went to the cardiologist who said that her
heart murmer was well under control and that she's be find to have some
dentistry done.  She went to have her teeth cleaned and a squamous cell
carcinoma (cancerous tumor) was found and removed.  Now if any of you can
help advise me on this it would be much appreciated.

Ceili saw her regular vet, an oncologist, and a surgeon.  They all seem to
agree that the tumor will almost undoubtedly come back, and that the
cancer will end up costing her her life.  I was advised that with about
$6000.00 worth of chemo and radiation we might extend her life for six to
eight months.  Because the tumor was under her tongue, the radiation would
be directed there and she would have to have a feeding tube to her stomach
- which just seems awful to me for her to have to go through because the
end result will be that she will die anyway.  Anyone have any thoughts on
this?  So far Ceili shows no signs whatsoever of illness.

On a completely different note, I had the chance to use my VPI insurance
for the first time when George was ill.  Although I'd heard a number of
negative things about the company I was quite happy with them and glad I
had the coverage.  We'll see how they do with Misty now.

Thanks!

Dee
Karen - 20 Jul 2004 22:38 GMT
Glad to hear h0p is well,but very sorry about Ceili. I have no experience
with cancer, so I'm no help, but I know soem here are. Best of luck!

> Some of you will remember me & h0p :)  I thought I'd drop in and let you
> know how we're all doing, as well as seeing how you all are doing.
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
>
> Dee
Howard Berkowitz - 20 Jul 2004 23:04 GMT
> Little Ceili (pronounced Kaylee), the stray we took in last fall, is
> unfortunately very ill.  She went to the cardiologist who said that her
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> end result will be that she will die anyway.  Anyone have any thoughts on
> this?  So far Ceili shows no signs whatsoever of illness.

I've looked at some of the veterinary literature, and the prognosis is
very poor. The concern is less that it recurs where it is, but that it
is quite metastatic, especially to the lungs. Interpretation of the
biopsy is paramount there, since there are rare but less metastatic
forms.

Unfortunately, the treatment is semi-experimental, and, in the case of
metastasis, will still buy only 6-8 months. The most reasonable thing
may be comfort measures for now, and watch for either the return of a
painful mass in her mouth, or difficulty in breathing.  

When I went through Clifford's bladder cancer, it was a somewhat
different situation with respect to timing. There was an initial
pharmacologic approach to improve comfort and possibly regress the
tumor. If that succeeded, radiation and chemotherapy did have a chance
of giving him a couple of years. Even though he was close to 18, his
general health was quite good.

As it was, while he became more comfortable with the first treatment,
the tumor grew rapidly and killed him in a few weeks.  Sadly, in a
human, it might have been cured surgically, but there was a problem
similar to yours with a feeding tube: he'd need an external bladder
stoma, which is not felt an adequate quality of life for cats.

Since I see you are posting from Maryland, if you are physically in the
DC area and would want a second oncological opinion, I was very
comfortable with the Veterinary Referral Center in Springfield. There's
another referral center in Springfield, Southpaws, with whom I had had
good experience in the past, but I was not as comfortable with them in
oncology. Feel free to email me if you'd like to discuss my experiences
with them, either by email or phone.
Dee - 21 Jul 2004 00:35 GMT
> In article <Pine.SOL.4.44.0407201700160.16885-100000@rac1.wam.umd.edu>,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> may be comfort measures for now, and watch for either the return of a
> painful mass in her mouth, or difficulty in breathing.

Thanks very much Howard,  What you've said above seems to confirm what
I've been told.  We don't know how old Ceili is, but the vet estimates at
least fourteen.  Right now she is taking piroxicam.  I've read that it has
some helpful results in dogs, but I can't find much about how it's worked
with cats.  I just don't think I want to see the poor little think living
our her last days going through radiation & chemo with a feeding tube in
her stomach.  If she could be saved, yes...but under these
circumstances...no.  I wouldn't want that for myself.

Dee

p.s. As always, thank you too Karen :)
Howard Berkowitz - 21 Jul 2004 01:04 GMT
> > In article <Pine.SOL.4.44.0407201700160.16885-100000@rac1.wam.umd.edu>,
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> her stomach.  If she could be saved, yes...but under these
> circumstances...no.  I wouldn't want that for myself.

Piroxicam was the primary drug used for Clifford's discomfort, and
clearly helped him. It has antiinflammatory effects as well as pain
relief, although he was also getting prednisone so the antiinflammatory
action could have been either.  I don't think there's any argument that
it improves comfort, but, in addition, there is some evidence it may
actually have a direct effect against tumors.

I don't know if the combination would be appropriate for squamous
carcinoma, since his problem was that the tumor was pressing against the
bladder and inflaming it.  He was willing to put up with one pill at a
time, but not two, so I had them made up as liquids, drew them into a
syringe, and squirted them in together.
M.C. Mullen - 21 Jul 2004 16:14 GMT
| I just don't think I want to see the poor little think living
| our her last days going through radiation & chemo with a feeding tube in
| her stomach.  If she could be saved, yes...but under these
| circumstances...no.  I wouldn't want that for myself.
|
| Dee

Yes, exactly.

Carola
JPHobbs - 21 Jul 2004 13:55 GMT
Dee I am so sorry for all the problems you have had with your babies
that is so sad. as for Ceili,what can I say? perhaps it will be better to
let her go on as long as she is happy and not in pain,and then,let her
go,thats what I had to do with my Henri, its very hard but it would be much
harder for her to go through so much more pain and then die anyway.whatever
you choose I
wish you both all the  best, and hope your other kitties go to better
health.
       Jean.P.

> Some of you will remember me & h0p :)  I thought I'd drop in and let you
> know how we're all doing, as well as seeing how you all are doing.
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
>
> Dee
m. L. Briggs - 21 Jul 2004 17:13 GMT
>Dee I am so sorry for all the problems you have had with your babies
>that is so sad. as for Ceili,what can I say? perhaps it will be better to
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
>>
>> Dee

Purrs for your wole pride.  You take very good care of them.  May your
patience be rewarded.  MLB
Dee - 23 Jul 2004 00:20 GMT
> Purrs for your wole pride.  You take very good care of them.  May your
> patience be rewarded.  MLB

Thanks ML :)  They take good care of me too.  How's your little one?
Still drinking from the dropper at night?

Dee
m. L. Briggs - 23 Jul 2004 00:41 GMT
>> Purrs for your wole pride.  You take very good care of them.  May your
>> patience be rewarded.  MLB
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Dee
Yes.  When I get ready for bed, she goes into the bathroom, jumps on
the counter and waits for her drops.  It is a ritual she really
enjoys.  Thanks for remembering.  She is 7  1/2 now and very "large".
I let nature take her course with Princess (RB 16) and I still miss
her.   MLB
Dee - 22 Jul 2004 23:36 GMT
> Dee I am so sorry for all the problems you have had with your babies
> that is so sad. as for Ceili,what can I say? perhaps it will be better to
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> health.
>         Jean.P.

Thank you Jean.  I believe that, in this case, you may be correct.  At
this time she is happy and getting around fine,  I believe that when it's
time for her to go, we'll let her go without putting her through hell as
it seems there's no hope.  I'm sorry to hear about Henri and hope you've
been able to give a good home to another cat since his passing.  Thanks
for your good wishes, all is going well.

Dee
hpickering@austin.rr.com - 21 Jul 2004 16:02 GMT
>Some of you will remember me & h0p :)  I thought I'd drop in and let you
>know how we're all doing, as well as seeing how you all are doing.
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
>
>Dee

Dee:
I am so sorry to hear about Ceili.
I can only offer you my support and sympathy.
Take care and enjoy the companionship while it lasts. I know that you
will do the right thing by your friend.
My thoughts are with you.
M.C. Mullen - 21 Jul 2004 16:15 GMT
| Ceili saw her regular vet, an oncologist, and a surgeon.  They all seem to
| agree that the tumor will almost undoubtedly come back, and that the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
| end result will be that she will die anyway.  Anyone have any thoughts on
| this?  So far Ceili shows no signs whatsoever of illness.

Dee, you're doing a great job with and for your cats, but there is a limit
to this.
Nature would not let Ceili live any longer.
And the 6000.- could help many other pets.
My advice is to let her go as soon as she suffers too much, being thankful
that you could have her and knowing that this is part of having pets.

Carola
 
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