 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsGeneral TopicsCat AnecdotesHealth and BehaviorRescue CatKB.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Cat Forum / General Topics / September 2004Angry Kitten
Gday all I have an 8 Month old red tom kitten male. i purchased him when he was about 5 weeks old. He was a very naughty cat, always getting into trouble and doign things he isnt allowed to do, we disciplened him with a squirty bottle or lockign him in his room. He has plenty of toys. around 5 months old he became very angry, attacks us, bites and scratches at random but can be very affectionate. at 6 months old we had him Desexed to try and stop this behaviour. Now he attacks at random, attacks my other 10 year old female cat whos just too old for it. attacks us and just doesnt seem to be disciplined.. He is locked in his room a lot these days and also runs away from my self, he runs around the neighbourhood when he has been told not too and disciplined everytime he does as we are affraid he will get hit by a car. we have a very large backyard for him to play in thats fenced off with a tall colour bond fence but he has learned to tunnel underneeth it or jump over it. i thnk we have given him lots of love and attention in his life, playing with him, buying him toys and giving him fresh kangaroo meat. what can we do to stop his behaviour, as we do not want to put up with him attacking us? regards Nathan Radburn. -- +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- WWW.MAD-BIKER.COM +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- he is a small young boy. He is going "to get into trouble' until he grows up. He has no idea what he is doing is wrong, he's just being a cat. You can tell him know, but like all young boys, they have a short attention span. in about a year you'll have a cat with a brain. > Gday all > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > WWW.MAD-BIKER.COM > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > he is a small young boy. He is going "to get into trouble' until he grows > up. He has no idea what he is doing is wrong, he's just being a cat. You > can tell him know, but like all young boys, they have a short attention > span. You appear to have a somewhat jaundiced view of malekind. The only ones with a short attention span are those with attention deficit disorder. This afflicts 3 times the number of boys as it does girls. But your slur is nevertheless unwarranted - and I have to say, not atypical of the kind of aggression that characterises femalekind and its attitude to malekind. Why are women so partisan ? If men were as aggressive as towards women because of what they are, this world would be an insufferable place. And women wonder why as a gender, they're not accorded the same respect given to men ! in about a year you'll have a cat with a brain. > > Gday all > > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > WWW.MAD-BIKER.COM > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > > he is a small young boy. He is going "to get into trouble' until he grows > > up. He has no idea what he is doing is wrong, he's just being a cat. You [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > And women wonder why as a gender, they're not accorded the same respect > given to men ! Oh, f.ck you, scumbag. People like you will stand in the rain for hours just on the off off chance that you might have an opportunity to be offended. I have more grandchildren than you have teeth left in your silly head, and I know that little boys are much more rambunctuous than are little girls. What's so offensive about that? The three sexes of humans are different, you know. That same aggressive standard is typical in all areas of the animal/mammal kingdom; and typically (but not always) tom kittens get into more things than do their female counterparts. --Geno<glad I could clear that up for you>Royer Cretin. > > > he is a small young boy. He is going "to get into trouble' until he > grows [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > --Geno<glad I could clear that up for you>Royer > Cretin. Never mind the Angry Kitten... we have Angry Loners now!  Signature/Jeßus/ Confucius Says ... Man young when he snatches kisses, old when he kisses snatches. "Je?us" <_._@ii.net> wrote in message news:5651050.TXedplSWAf@jebus.net... > > Cretin. > > Never mind the Angry Kitten... we have Angry Loners now! Yeah, not to mention angry cretins ! Hehe. Your name is fitting! > > he is a small young boy. He is going "to get into trouble' until he grows > > up. He has no idea what he is doing is wrong, he's just being a cat. You [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > > > WWW.MAD-BIKER.COM > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Thankyou. > Your name is fitting! > [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > > > > WWW.MAD-BIKER.COM > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- You dont really think you can tell a kitten not to do something and expect it to obey do you, do you have any children, how would you react to their disobedience?the same as the kitten ? the kitten attacks you because of how you punish it, just for being a kitten, its like telling a baby not to cry or wet its nappy. Jean.P. > > he is a small young boy. He is going "to get into trouble' until he grows > > up. He has no idea what he is doing is wrong, he's just being a cat. You [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > > > WWW.MAD-BIKER.COM > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Does your husband do as he's told as well. No course he dosen't. > You dont really think you can tell a kitten not to do something > and expect it to obey do you, do you have any children, how would you react [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > > > > WWW.MAD-BIKER.COM > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- | i thnk we have given him lots of love and attention in his life, playing | with him, buying him toys and giving him fresh kangaroo meat. Have you? Look at your statement: | we disciplened him with a squirty bottle or lockign him | in his room. | | what can we do to stop his behaviour, as we do not want to put up with him | attacking us? Give him love! >attacks us and just doesnt seem to be disciplined.. He's a little young for too much discipline. He's just being a kitten. I think the aggression issues may be because of the discipline. When he's doing something wrong, take him away from that situation and give him something positive to do, like playing with a toy, a paper bag, laser mouse. He has a LOT of energy and needs to use it in positive play ways. Also, don't let him play scratch or play bite. If he thinks that's okay, he will scratch and bite hard as as adult. Play with him with toys, not your hand if he does this. He'll calm down in a year or so. Also, don't expect him to stay in the yard on his own. He won't. Don't let him out or let him out in a enclosed area so he won't get run over. > He is locked in his room a lot these days and also runs away from my self, > he runs around the neighbourhood when he has been told not too and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > regards > Nathan Radburn. Build a solid enclosure, or get several big dog cages for him.Link them together into a long "trail" Most kittens go through the crazies until they are about 1 year old. LT -- Have you considered valeim // serapax > Gday all > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > WWW.MAD-BIKER.COM > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- You know they have antidepressants for cats now, works for all kinds of problems too. A friend of mine has a cat and his cat hates other cats and his fiancee is moving in with her lovely cat that likes other cats and he has had to put his cat on clomicalm to calm him down so he wont kill the new cat. Some cats are just not nice cats, luckily there are people out there that find those kinds of cats personalities appealing and so they get homes too. Im yet to see a cat that is a bit wild and bites a lot for no reason have behaviour modification techniques work on it. Kim > Have you considered valeim // serapax > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > WWW.MAD-BIKER.COM > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > Some cats are just not nice cats, luckily there are people out there that > find those kinds of cats personalities appealing and so they get homes too. > Im yet to see a cat that is a bit wild and bites a lot for no reason have > behaviour modification techniques work on it. > > Kim There was one stray that showed up here and immediately began attacking the other cats. I ran it off a few times but it kept coming back, aggressive as can be. There was no choice except to get rid of it. Most cats can be trained, but occasionally a bad one happens along and you can't jeopardize the lives of other cats for the sake of the bad one. Sometimes, if you can't make peace between animals, you have to choose which one means more to you. You can't sit idly by while they hurt each other. Bob > > Some cats are just not nice cats, luckily there are people out there that > > find those kinds of cats personalities appealing and so they get homes [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > make peace between animals, you have to choose which one means more to you. > You can't sit idly by while they hurt each other. Absolutely, and you're right to run the stray off (although I am really impressed with those who can catch, neuter and release) The thing is, the stray isn't necessarily mean or "bad". It's doing what comes naturally. It's on it's own, no reliable source of food and if it's an unaltered male it's got even more reason to be aggressive. I imagine there are cats like people that are destined to be a bit mean no matter what the environment but 99% of them are products of their upbringing. AG >>Absolutely, and you're right to run the stray off (although I am really >>impressed with those who can catch, neuter and release) Catch, neuter and release is not an option for me. The local vet charges $135. The only county animal services are rabies shots for $10, and that's only because it is a State law that the counties must provide it. There is no county run animal shelter, no dog officer, nothing. State law provides that the land owner may "despatch" a nuisance animal on his or her property providing it isn't a neighbor's domestic pet. Here, it is legal to "despatch" a stray in the manner of your choosing as long as done humanely. Bob > >>Absolutely, and you're right to run the stray off (although I am really > >>impressed with those who can catch, neuter and release) [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > providing it isn't a neighbor's domestic pet. Here, it is legal to > "despatch" a stray in the manner of your choosing as long as done humanely. I wasn't criticizing..I've never done it either. I just think it's really cool that some people do. My Aunt for one, but she has a deal with the local Animal Shelter for spay/neutering and shots. I do have a hard time shooing away strays because I figure they are probably hungry and maybe a little lonely. Still...my girl comes first and I don't want her to be injured or catch something. If I had an aggressive one come around here I would do the same thing you did. AG > > >>Absolutely, and you're right to run the stray off (although I am really > > >>impressed with those who can catch, neuter and release) [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > AG I do pay the $10 for the rabies shots because I view it as a public health issue that could affect other animals and humans in the area. Bob > >>Absolutely, and you're right to run the stray off (although I am really > >>impressed with those who can catch, neuter and release) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Bob I don't know what the laws are, and I don't care. If an animal--ANY animal, whether it's someone else's pet or whatever--is on your properly repeatedly and won't quit being a pest, you have every moral right to shoot it or trap it with a trapping device. I don't care what the law says, you shouldn't have to bother an Animal Control agency when you're fully capable of handling it yourself with a BB gun, a REAL gun, or a trapping device which doesn't kill them. If you're capable of solving the problem yourself quickly, do it. Growing up in the country, it was no big deal for my mother to shoot any stray animals--dogs or cats--with her pistol when they were bothering our 1 1/2 acre yard. She didn't call Animal Control, she'd take care of matters herself. (And she LOVES cats; she recently had her cat of 16 years die of old age despite repeated visits to the vet and she talked of how it tore her up.) I would do the same if I had a 1 1/2 acre yard in the country, REGARDLESS of what the laws are. You should be able to protect your property by any means necessary. > > >>Absolutely, and you're right to run the stray off (although I am really > > >>impressed with those who can catch, neuter and release) [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > REGARDLESS of what the laws are. You should be able to protect your property > by any means necessary. Hope your pet walks into my property one day ---- It will be the last time Boc You can't say that. All the do gooders on here will get up you.. Then someone will start a "Bring Back Cleaver" campain, then were will we be, in the sh.t. thats where. And the first day of Spring Ozboc was heard to say,, Puss, Puss, Puss. wack, Dinners on the table chaps.. "Ozboc" <Boc@your_undies_smell.com> wrote in message > Hope your pet walks into my property one day ---- It will be the last time > > Boc If you walk into a lions den, should they kill you? why stop with animals, lets shoot the door to door sales men too... mormens and salvo's alike.. -- +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- WWW.MAD-BIKER.COM +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > You can't say that. All the do gooders on here will get up you.. Then > someone will start a "Bring Back Cleaver" campain, then were will we be, in [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > > > Boc > If you walk into a lions den, should they kill you? > > why stop with animals, lets shoot the door to door sales men too... mormens > and salvo's alike.. Ooohh, can we? P L E A S E.....pretty please!!!! > > > >>Absolutely, and you're right to run the stray off (although I am > really [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Boc Well, if his animal trecks onto my property, It will be the last time he will ever see it because I'll scoop it up and give it a real home. I have trapped, spayed and neutered 58 cats in the last seven years, and all of them were caught right inside my yard. After they are fixed and inoculated, I find decent homes for those that are palpable. Those that are too feral are returned to the yard, and many (most) stay around because it's a safe place. Pet owners come asking around for anyone who might have seen their *lost* pet, and I tell them "not me." Anyone who lets their un-fixed cat run loose in a busy subdivision does not deserve to have it back. My place is called Hotel Geno. Cats check in, and they don't check out. --Geno >> > > >>Absolutely, and you're right to run the stray off (although I am >> > > >>really impressed with those who can catch, neuter and release) [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > --Geno Where do you live? I hope it's nowhere near here. > >> > > >>Absolutely, and you're right to run the stray off (although I am > >> > > >>really impressed with those who can catch, neuter and release) [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > Where do you live? I hope it's nowhere near here. I'm in Houston. If you live near me, don't let your cat run loose, or I will snatch it up and take it inside where it can be safe from cars, disease and animal control officers. --Geno >> >> > > >>Absolutely, and you're right to run the stray off (although I >> >> > > >>am really impressed with those who can catch, neuter and [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > > --Geno Ah, another Texas whacko. Luckily, I am far from Texas and have no plans to go anywhere near anytime soon. Anyone who tries to justify abducting other people's pets is someone I don't want to know. > >> >> > > >>Absolutely, and you're right to run the stray off (although I > >> >> > > >>am really impressed with those who can catch, neuter and [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > go anywhere near anytime soon. Anyone who tries to justify abducting other > people's pets is someone I don't want to know. You're silly. Here in this area, animal control comes along and traps the animals either in nets or live-catch traps. A caught cat is a dead cat. Which would you prefer? --Geno >> >> >> > > >>Absolutely, and you're right to run the stray off >> >> >> > > >>(although I am really impressed with those who can catch, [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > > --Geno There is no 'animal control' here in that sense. DNR will come if someone calls them, but I can't imagine a circumstance where they would come out to trap a cat. well your Mr wonderful aren't you, and you even collect feral animals, de-nut them as well, then return them back to the environment, where they continue to kill the wildlife.. Its a wonder you find time to write it all down. But then your on an ego trip, so it does help to have a record of your exploits, after all no-one knows your doing it. But when you break it down , your not that wonderful, its only 8 cats a year or one every 6 weeks or so. and as you say all the feral's stick around, So you must be catching them more then once But as long as your happy, who am I to say anything, mind you Boc leaves you for dead, Nothing ever escapes, and unlike "Pets Cemetery" nothing gets to come back bassett . "Gene Royer" <siregeno@Mindset.net> wrote in message I have trapped, spayed and neutered 58 cats in the last seven years, and all of them were caught right inside my yard. After they are fixed and inoculated, I find decent homes for those that are palpable. Those that are too feral are returned to the yard, and many (most) stay around because it's a safe place. "bassett" bassett@bassettskennell.com writes >well your Mr wonderful aren't you, and you even collect feral animals, >de-nut them as well, then return them back to the environment, where they >continue to kill the wildlife.. > Its a wonder you find time to write it all down. Congrat. You have won the monthly "dammit, i can bring down the most sainted individual/nobody can do anything good according to my way of thinkin'" award. You forgot to share your list of accomplishments with the newsgroup. Which list was yours? The one starting with finding a cure for cancer or the one ending with stamping out poverty? You might want to take a course or two in spelling and/or grammer (as demonstrated by the mistakes above). Spaying and neutering feral colonies is commendable and responsible! > "bassett" bassett@bassettskennell.com > writes [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Spaying and neutering feral colonies is commendable and responsible! LOL! Thanks. Perhaps the writer (Basset) does not realize that feral cats are wildlife, too. I think when s/he sobers up and reads what s/he wrote it will be a sobering experience indeed. One of my most prized cats is a big Maincoon named Arnold. Arnold was abandoned when his family moved away, and he was left to roam the subdivision and find his food where he could. When I first saw him, I perceived him feral because I could tell he had not been neutered, and he would run from me. I trapped him and had him fixed and inoculated, cured his ear mites, stitched his fighting wounds and gave him some tasty food. He stayed around. A few months later, my wife was able to pet him, and from that moment on, he displayed a desire to come inside the house. I was hesitant because he was such a large and dominant cat, and I was afraid for the tamer house cats inside. But he was well acquainted with house living, happy to use the litter box and accustomed to being fed in a bowl. He's been an insider now for five 'naf years. In retrospect it is a good thing I did all this because he developed stomatitis and diabetes, which if untreated will make the cat unable to eat, and he will literally starve to death. We treat it with twice-monthly catabolic steroids and twice-daily injections of insulin. He's about 17 (we think) and we expect him to top 20. Yes, I am Mr Wonderful to him. --Geno >"Gene Royer" siregeno@Mindset.net writes >"Luvskats00" wrote that >bassett@bassettskennell.com > wrote "well your Mr wonderful >aren't you, and you even collect >feral animals, >de-nut them as well, then return >them back to the environment, where they >continue to kill the wildlife.. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>sainted >> individual/nobody can do >>anything good according to my >>way of thinkin'" award. >> You forgot to share your list of >>accomplishments with the >>newsgroup. Which >list >> was yours? The one starting with >>finding a cure for cancer or the >>one ending >> with stamping out poverty? >> >> You might want to take a course >>or two in spelling and/or grammer (as >> demonstrated by the mistakes above). >> Spaying and neutering feral >>colonies is commendable and >>responsible! >>>LOL! Thanks. Perhaps the >>writer (Basset) does not realize >>>that feral cats >>>are wildlife, too. I think when >>>s/he sobers up and reads what >>>s/he wrote it >>>will be a sobering experience indeed. >>>One of my most prized cats is a >>>big Maincoon named Arnold. Arnold was [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>>In retrospect it is a good thing I >>>did all this because he developed >>>stomatitis and diabetes, which if >>>untreated will make the cat unable to eat, >>>>and he will literally starve to death. We treat it with >>>twice-monthly >>>catabolic steroids and >>>twice-daily injections of insulin. >>>He's about 17 (we think) and we >>>expect him to top 20. >>>Yes, I am Mr Wonderful to him. >--Geno I love to hear stories like that! That poor boy would have died (painfully) if you didn't rescue him! The family that (not only) abandoned him AND left him (unneuetered) should have located and fined. Some states would have actually prosecuted the abandonment as a felony and required jail time for the owner! I'm all for that. > well your Mr wonderful aren't you, and you even collect feral animals, > de-nut them as well, then return them back to the environment, where they [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > to come back > bassett Hi, If you've sobered up by now, read my message below, and you will see that I don't say "all the ferals stick around". (By the way, I do have to catch the ferals annually to get them their rabies shots, etc. It's a tough job because they will not easily be caught in the same manner as before. So, I have to devise more clever methods each year.) My vet bill each year runs in the $9,000 range, and that does not include food. We feed only premium cat food because I learned long ago that the better food you feed the cat the less time (and money) you will spend at the vet. (We also feed all our cats (insiders and outsiders) Risotriene?--which you can google--and it has greatly reduced the incidences of sickness among them.) www.integrisdream.com/Generoyer Usually when cats are roaming loose--either ferals, small kittens (which are also feral) or someone else's pet cat that they have de-clawed and turned loose--they might have all manner of maladies: ear mites, worms, fleas, fighting wounds, etc. When I have them fixed, I also have the vet take care of those problems as well. It is expensive, but worth it.(People who declaw their cats and then turn them outside are not responsible pet owners) I have a special place where I can keep a feral cat for a week or so and administer medication if needs be. This requires cunning--and no small amount of daring. And when the cat is well enough to be turned loose, I let them go. As I said, it is amazing how many of the feral cats actually stick close to the manor grounds and return to eat and get fresh water (and get caught again the next year <G>). Three years ago, two big, black and white twin tomcats came around. I noticed that one of them had a horrible gash on his left front paw, with the skin hanging down more than an inch, and bare flesh showing. He was so sick that I went out and actually picked him up in a towel and took him to the vet. His three-weeks stay at the vet was an exception for me, but it was necessary to get him well. We neutered him and gave him the necessary inoculations, etc., and I brought him home for home nursing care for about three weeks. After that period of time he was so tame that I decided to keep him inside. The vet bill was astronomical, but I got a fine pal in exchange. His name is Tiny. His brother <outside> has subsequently been caught and fixed and remains an outsider who stays in my yard almost all the time. I can pet him easily, and if needs be I could bring him in and keep him in the special screened area that I mentioned above <about 12 X14 feet> on my porch. He's a beautiful cat. His name is Tinytwo. Me go now. --Geno<Mr Wonderful>Royer http://mastersfitness.royergovernance.com/fitlog/ www.kickaliberalsbutt.com > . > "Gene Royer" <siregeno@Mindset.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > too feral are returned to the yard, and many (most) stay around because it's > a safe place. You really are Mr Wonderful, Obversely a septic tank, by the way you prattle on, But I like a lot of other people on this Australian news group, have seen your sort before, You come and you go, Thankfully you mostly go. back to your little world of doing wonderful things for the environment. We don't allow de-clawing in this country, and my good friend "Kim" will no-doubt explain why. But if it makes your little existence worthwhile, so be it.. As for sobering up, putting up with your crap, would drive a saint to drink, but on my worst day, I can still deal with the likes of you, without even thinking about it. So at what point of your posts do you start to ask for donations for your cause of Pussy restoration. We have some nice people in this country that also love cats, In fact they love them so much that they make Hats out of them, and very nice they are too.. But sadly I,m not one of them.. I just hate the bloody things, but strangely enough I do like Pussy, and have been know to eat a hole one, from time to time.. ****What's the betting that goes over his head***** Well must go, the Pubs open, and I have to feed the Angelfish, or they get the sardines to bang on there tins and it's disturbs the Crabs, Do you have Crabs. Bye Bye,, Love to all bassett. Cats on the rooftops, Cats on the Tiles , Cats with sylliphlis, Cats with piles. Blah,Blah,Blah. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > http://mastersfitness.royergovernance.com/fitlog/ > www.kickaliberalsbutt.com > well your Mr wonderful aren't you, and you even collect feral animals, > de-nut them as well, then return them back to the environment, where they [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > or one every 6 weeks or so. and as you say all the feral's stick around, So > you must be catching them more then once Sorry to bust in on this group like this, as I am a newcomer, but it is obvious that you have not done any research into the benefits of Spay Neuter and Return. It has been found consistently to be the best form of controlling feral populations, especially around towns. As long as cats are breeding, and people are dumping their pets - the feral population is always going to rise and spread into adjacent areas. As cats are territorial, a neutered population is very effective in keeping other cats from moving into the area. As far as killing wildlife - well I live in Australia and that is a real problem here - but what most people don't know is that thousands of cats were released by our own government here as a form of rabbit control during the rabbit plauge. I believe in inside cats, especially in Australia, and failing that curfews. People who are ready to blame the cat for decimating our wildlife should really take a long hard look at THEMSELVES though first, because cars, pollution, land clearing and hunting result in far more destruction - and we are doing this with the knowledge that our human brains afford us whereas cats are following their survival instincts. What is an automatic response in a cat can be likened to pre-meditated murder in humans when we throw a cigarette butt into the grass, clear a paddock or drive a car. > But as long as your happy, who am I to say anything, mind you Boc leaves > you for dead, Nothing ever escapes, and unlike "Pets Cemetery" nothing gets > to come back Attacking a person is never attacking the issue and leads to flaming and the like - behaviour that is not only childish but benefits nobody. I would never let an unneutered cat roam - but if my cat accidentally got out, I would hope that nobody hurt her as they would regret it when karma finally caught up with them. -Silver "I love cats because I enjoy my home; & little by little, they become its visible soul." - Jean Cocteau 1889-1963. > Sorry to bust in on this group like this, as I am a newcomer, but it is > obvious that you have not done any research into the benefits of Spay Neuter [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > murder in humans when we throw a cigarette butt into the grass, clear a > paddock or drive a car. Wow....couldn't have said it better myself. I often wonder what kind of pesticides are used in the gardens of those people complaining about the neighbors cat killing the birds. > > But as long as your happy, who am I to say anything, mind you Boc leaves > > you for dead, Nothing ever escapes, and unlike "Pets Cemetery" nothing [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > would hope that nobody hurt her as they would regret it when karma finally > caught up with them. Well said....again, and welcome to the group I can tell I am going to enjoy reading your posts. AG > > Sorry to bust in on this group like this, as I am a newcomer, but it is > > obvious that you have not done any research into the benefits of Spay [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > Well said....again, and welcome to the group > I can tell I am going to enjoy reading your posts. Thank you for the welcome :) And the praise - though I'm sure it's undeserved :) -Silver "I love cats because I enjoy my home; & little by little, they become its visible soul." - Jean Cocteau 1889-1963. You might not have noticed but this is an Australian news group, and most of us here are Aussie's , Not sure about Boc, and he's not sure about me, but the rest of the mob are normal. Hi Alpha But the bloke that prattled on about de-nut, de-claw, and release is defiantly not one of us.. Some foreign muck, no doubt. Had some bloody funny ideas as well.. But you did get it a little bit wrong,, We don't abuse, we entertain. If you take offence at our humour, Stiff. if not keep contributing.. And you can abuse me if you like, Its a form of comunication, and no-one talks to me anyway *sob,sob* bassett > You might not have noticed but this is an Australian news group, and most > of us here are Aussie's , Actually this is cross posted into 2 other groups..neither of which are exclusively Australian. | > You might not have noticed but this is an Australian news group, and most | > of us here are Aussie's , | | Actually this is cross posted into 2 other groups..neither of which are | exclusively Australian. I thought most of the people here come from the US ? Carola "M.C. Mullen" mcmullen@freesurf.invalid.ch writes >"I thought most of the people here >come from the US ? " And I thought the majority of people were from the UK and the USA. > "M.C. Mullen" mcmullen@freesurf.invalid.ch > writes > >"I thought most of the people here >come from the US ? > " > > And I thought the majority of people were from the UK and the USA. I don't know if we have ever done a poll. I just assumed that the poster I was responding too was from aus.pets and didn't realize the thread was being cross posted to non "aus" groups. I know a lot of folks who regularly post here are from the UK and US because there is always such a debate about the differing laws but I don't know how many are from other countries. AG > "M.C. Mullen" mcmullen@freesurf.invalid.ch > writes > >"I thought most of the people here >come from the US ? > " > > And I thought the majority of people were from the UK and the USA. Lol. An international group for sure! Maybe us Aussies should swallow our National Pride and realise that the called alt.cats not alt.aussie.cats or alt.cats.australia. The internet is open to everyone - and I believe that desex and release is still an option here: after all stopping feral cats from breeding is what we want isn't it? Of course, this works best in suburbian areas because the cats are more sedentatry but if farmers (who often keep cats as vermin control anyway) were to adopt it as well then it could work if enough people did it - though I don't think that will ever happen. Even the army which are called in to control feral cats at times, have been unable to make more than a dint in their numbers. Cats are very resistant to baits and if they don't die will be bait-shy for the rest of their lives. They are hard to trap, and shooting is not going to work on cats any more than it does on any other feral animal that plauges Australia. Cats are small, nocturnal and breed at a surprisingly high rate. They are very successful predators and can live without water if they get enough fresh meat. Although feral cats do eat our bird and warm and cuddlies, the greatest danger is to our reptiles - which form the bulk of our feral cat's diet here in Australia. Now most Aussies I know think that the only good snake is a dead one (something that leads me to wonder if we really do have the best interests of our wildlife at heart) and dingos are treated about the same yet they have been here for about 40 000 years and live in balance with our wildlife. Feral pigs, rabbits and goats cause more environmental damage and we haven't even been able to eradicate them. Any system that tries to address the problem more logically, while also being the most humane, is the best system in my eyes. > > "M.C. Mullen" mcmullen@freesurf.invalid.ch > > writes [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > still an option here: after all stopping feral cats from breeding is what we > want isn't it? There was a story in the news today that a local city actually used feral cats to control the rodent population. I wish I could remember the city so I could look it up but from what I gathered in the 60 second news bite...the powers that be at city hall had a desex and release group release them within the city hall. Now they don't have any more rodents and they are considering expanding the program to other areas within the city. The cats aren't "domesticated" but they do provide them access to water, shelter and some food. ( I guess enough to keep them around but not so much as to stop them from hunting) AG > > > "M.C. Mullen" mcmullen@freesurf.invalid.ch > > > writes [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > AG Reprinted in part from www.tocquevillian.com Trap-Neuter-Inoculate-Release? (Gene Royer) Recently Jacksonville Naval Air Station (USA) found itself overrun with more than 200 cats. The Navy?s solution was to starve and exterminate the animals. But problems arose regarding ethics and results. ?We?ve been using euthanasia for decades,? said Richard Black. ?It hasn?t worked. Wild cats are no different from raccoons or opossums, and we wouldn ?t think of destroying them. When we catch them we take great effort to return them to the wilds. So, why do we treat cats differently--when it?s not even their fault they?re here.? The implication was: Residents allowed their cats to roam without concern for their breeding capabilities--thus being the main cause of the problem. ?The solution is something radically different from what we?ve been doing. Trap-neuter-inoculate-release, is the wave of the future.? Trap, neuter, inoculate, release--back into the neighborhood, but without the capacity to reproduce. A huge industry exists in America around the nurturing of cats. Entire aisles in supermarkets are set aside for the necessities of cats and dogs. Animal clinics abound to aid in their care. How can we, as responsible citizens, fail to address this problem from a humane point? And who among us--the board included--is willing to face a sensitive and story-hungry TV medium who might approach us with charges of animal abuse--particularly when other humane options exist? I presented the local homeowners' board a list of 54 cats I have caught, sterilized and inoculated over a seven-year period at my own expense; and as a result I have not seen a stray kitten in my yard in two years. If 2 cats can produce 80 million, how many can 54? BTW, you can do the math and conclude that it was no small expense. Some animals needed additional veterinarian treatment for various illnesses, infestations and/or wounds. One little guy needed extensive rectal surgery just so he could poop regularly. He's now a magnificent inside-the-house pet weighing 13 pounds of muscle. Of this number, 37 were females. Some were kittens, which I adopted to families who would keep them inside. I placed some of the older strays with farmers who put them in their barns as mousers. Others I returned to their families, and some I returned to the neighborhood. Some remain in my yard, and I catch them annually for inoculation. Cats have no predators. They reproduce faster than rabbits or mice. William Daniel, a Jacksonville Beach veterinarian said, ?Returning the cats helps keep down the population of rats." Strays are not the problem. As with Jacksonville Naval Station, the problem is irresponsible residents who allow their cats to roam without concern for their breeding capacity. If we work together, we can solve the problem. --Gene Royer ?Copyright Gene Royer Houston TX 2003 Agree that it's in the best interests of the community (regardless of what city and country you live in).. However, desexing and releasing cats only leaves animals on the street that are homeless... Why not just surrender them to animal control (the ones you dont wish to keep as your own) and if they dont find suitable homes, then they get put down. The death of one feral animal could further prevent hundreds of losses of wildlife such as frogs, many of which here in Australia are facing extinction due to cats roaming at night... No new reports say whether these cats have been neutered or not.. as it has nothing to do with cats killing wildlife. why would you WANT feral cats in your neighbourhood?? whether they are capable of breeding or not.. what happens when they attack your kids? sh.t in peoples gardens and spread diseases like ringworm? > > > "M.C. Mullen" mcmullen@freesurf.invalid.ch > > > writes [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > AG > Agree that it's in the best interests of the community (regardless of what > city and country you live in).. > > However, desexing and releasing cats only leaves animals on the street that > are homeless... ??? They aren't homeless...they just don't live with humans. > Why not just surrender them to animal control (the ones you dont wish to > keep as your own) and if they dont find suitable homes, then they get put > down. Well...because it isn't necessary to "put them down". Just because a feral cat doesn't have the same life as my domesticated (spoilt) house cat doesn't make his life any less fulfilled. > The death of one feral animal could further prevent hundreds of losses of > wildlife such as frogs, many of which here in Australia are facing > extinction due to cats roaming at night... First off, there isn't a lot of wild life at city hall. Secondly, animals have been killing other animals long before we got involved. These arent animals that were recently "introduced" into an ecosystem which is now suffering becaue of it. > No new reports say whether these cats have been neutered or not.. as it has > nothing to do with cats killing wildlife. Right, and in a lot of ecosystems, that's how it works. Lions kill zebras to live..poor zebras. We should go lock up all the lions right? Ohh..and those damn eagles killing those innocent birds and rodents. Lock them up to or if you can't find a place to lock them up, put them down. BTW... neutering the cat is not done to protect the wildlife when the cat is re-released. It's to prevent that same cat from affecting the wildlife for hundreds of years while it's numerous offsprings multiply so much they have to move on to frogs. I know I am exaggerating and I apologize for the sarcasm but I hear that all the time. "how do I keep my neighbors cat from killing birds" The answer is you don't. God made them what they are..who are we to say they should be different. I understand the problem with the frogs is a different story. Man tried to "improve" upon nature , intoducing a bunch of cats where none used to exists. > why would you WANT feral cats in your neighbourhood?? whether they are > capable of breeding or not.. > what happens when they attack your kids? sh.t in peoples gardens and spread > diseases like ringworm? I don't want feral cats in my neighborhood..but they are there so it's no longer about what I want, it's about reality. I don't want them dead. It's a life and it's not my decision that it's life is less valuable than the birds it might kill. What I can do is prevent it's offspring from doing the same And before you mention it...I don't consider killing a cat just because it's not your pet desirable. AG this is a debate that could go on and on with pros and cons for boths sides of the story.. I do value and appreciate your comments, but I still stand by my own opinions... It's obvious that we live in totally different areas of the world, and the cats have different impacts on the environment. I live an area with lots and lots of feral cats... one of which became my own.. and he is now domesticated (and in surgery as we speak - poor bugger!)... so I understand where you are coming from.. but I still see the problems far outweighing the positives with these ferals terrorising domesticated pets in the street as well as the other issues.. for my local community this is the case at least. This may or may not apply to you.. and you may or may not like what I have said about euthenasing these ferals... but it;'s just a personal opinion, and not meant to offend in any way.. Have a great day! > > Agree that it's in the best interests of the community (regardless of what > > city and country you live in).. [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > AG > > Agree that it's in the best interests of the community (regardless of what > > city and country you live in).. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > that were recently "introduced" into an ecosystem which is now suffering > becaue of it. The domestic cat, as we know it, would not have evolved unless man bred it, and definitely would not exist in Australia. Therefore, in order to consider it a part of an natural ecosystem, you need to blur your definitions somewhat. To consider a domestic cat turned feral as part of any "ecosystem" is plain ignorance. They are about as much a part of an ecosystem as DDT is - ubiquitous, dangerous, man-made, and doesn't belong there. > > No new reports say whether these cats have been neutered or not.. as it > has [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > The answer is you don't. God made them what they are..who are we > to say they should be different. You sure are exaggerating, lions & zebras are legitimate parts of natural ecosystems. No humans participated in the breeding-out of parts of their lineage. > I understand the problem with the frogs is a different story. Man tried to > "improve" upon nature , intoducing a bunch of cats where none used to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > birds > it might kill. What I can do is prevent it's offspring from The birds (and many other species that have lived in Australia) are threatened the man-made, and man-neglect introduction of feral cats. If man does not take steps to correct the situation, it will be complicit in the destruction of yet another native species that would be fine if we didn't step foot here. To ignore the problem would be a crime against our biodiversity, and that diversity needs only 3 less species - Rabbit, Fox, and FERAL CAT!!! doing the same > And before you mention it...I don't consider killing a cat just because it's > not your pet desirable. > > AG > Agree that it's in the best interests of the community (regardless of what > city and country you live in).. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > wildlife such as frogs, many of which here in Australia are facing > extinction due to cats roaming at night... Frogs? You are a silly litte person. Please post you whiny blithering to alt.frogs. What a nitwit you are. --Geno > > Agree that it's in the best interests of the community (regardless of what > > city and country you live in).. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > keep as your own) and if they dont find suitable homes, then they get put > > down. What happened to all that "cats' free will" that you were rattling on about last week? You hypocritical little twit. You're so full of crap you squish when you walk. Have you ever had a sensible thought in your silly life? --Geno<glad I could clear that up for you>Royer > What happened to all that "cats' free will" that you were rattling on about > last week? That was me you idiot. And I told you to substitute "god-given nature" if it makes your warped mind unkink a little. The difference between human free-will and animal "free-will" is that God holds us accountable. > You hypocritical little twit. You're so full of crap you squish > when you walk. ? f.ck Off. pat > Have you ever had a sensible thought in your silly life? > > --Geno<glad I could clear that up for you>Royer > > What happened to all that "cats' free will" that you were rattling on about > > last week? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > pat Thanks for the offer, but I have other plans. As for your admonition that it was you who mentioned "free will", I agree. However, the poster to whom I was directing my statement above was also adamant about it. She took exception to my statement below: "Cats to not have a right to free will. That is a virtue reserved only to humans. Mankind was given dominion over all the animals on earth and that prerogative still exists." In response, she wrote: "Hello!??? Are you for real??? Someone please lock this person up... mankind is one of the animals on earth... so lets lock this one up, stick it in a gimp suit and f.ck it up the arse! See how you like domination..." I'm sorry that you have not been able to keep up. Please try harder because you're holding things up. --Geno > I thought most of the people here come from the US ? um, nope, I'm in a little country north of you. The reference though was to the message thread being posted not only in alt.pet.cats and alt.cats but aus.pets (the .aus signifies Australia) where I think cats are regarded with the same love and affection we give raccoons and for much the same reasons. pat > > I thought most of the people here come from the US ? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > pat Which country? I'm in Houston, and I have an international consulting practice; and I've visited most countries in the northern hemisphere. Everywhere I go, I see people harboring cats. Cats are cool pets. I just got done getting bit because I was giving my Kitty Cat a hard time <g>. She's 17 years this September. Her bite is more a nibble because I took two of her canine teeth last spring. --Geno Actually that is a really general statement and probably one most cat lovers in Australia would find offensive. Cats are very much loved family pets in Australia. Sure feral cats cause a real problem to our native fauna, along with many domestic cats as well with owners that are not responsible and dont bother locking them up at night. In general though on a person to person basis (obviously we cant compare populations) Australians love cats as pets as much as Americans do. Kim > > I thought most of the people here come from the US ? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > pat > In general though on a person to person basis (obviously we cant compare > populations) Australians love cats as pets as much as Americans do. > > Kim k, thanks. :) pat (hmm, an opinion based on TV righted by the internet.... got to be something wrong with that ;) Like I said though feral cats are a real problem here and many steps are taken to try and kill them in the wild. From a vet perspective though the average is 60% dog owners and 40% cat owners. This is actually changing too so as more and more apartments are put up in the cities and surrounding suburbs and there are less houses with yards more people are getting cats as pets instead of dogs so in the next 10 years the statistics seem to point to more and more cat ownership over dogs. One good point also is the more welfare centres are desexing kittens at 8 weeks old before adopting them to people we are actually seeing a decrease in unwanted litters in the cities. You will never stop bad pet owners from getting a pet but you can try and reduce the numbers of unwanted litters produced in the first place. Kim > > In general though on a person to person basis (obviously we cant compare > > populations) Australians love cats as pets as much as Americans do. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > (hmm, an opinion based on TV righted by the internet.... got to be > something wrong with that ;) > Like I said though feral cats are a real problem here and many steps are > taken to try and kill them in the wild. > > From a vet perspective though the average is 60% dog owners and 40% cat > owners. Interesting stat - NZ has the highest rate of cat ownership of all the nations it commonly compares itself to - 52% of households own a cat, 18% own two. Only 28% of households own a dog. The number of cats per capita is around 0.275, compared with the US and Aus at about 0.225. http://www.petfoodnz.co.nz (click on reference and the pet food market for more details). On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 22:53:42 GMT, rpl was saying .... > > I thought most of the people here come from the US ? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >where I think cats are regarded with the same love and affection we give >raccoons and for much the same reasons. I live in Australia and stray cats are a definite pest in my suburb despite pet owners supposedly being required to keep dogs & cats within their own properties. Our local council employs a contractor who controls stray dogs very well, to the extent that there are seldom dogs wandering our streets but cats are more difficult to control. The contractor loans out traps to people troubled by cats so wandering cats can be captured, then those that can be identified are returned to their owners (after the owners pay a fine) if homes can't be found for the remainder they would be put down. Cats are blamed for killing off our wild life but large hunting dogs that have gone feral living in packs of a dozen or more throughout forest areas pose a greater threat to our wildlife and even the safety of humans. SignatureLindsay. > On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 22:53:42 GMT, rpl was saying .... > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > who controls stray dogs very well, to the extent that there are seldom > dogs wandering our streets but cats are more difficult to control. Where in Australia are you. I have heard of the laws in Victoria about keeping cats in at night, but have not heard of any about keeping cats on you own property, full stop. It seems like pissing into the wind to me. > The contractor loans out traps to people troubled by cats so wandering > cats can be captured, then those that can be identified are returned > to their owners (after the owners pay a fine) if homes can't be found > for the remainder they would be put down. So all cats are meant to be indoor-only or caged cats? On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 19:49:41 +1200, Ashley was saying .... >> I live in Australia and stray cats are a definite pest in my suburb >> despite pet owners supposedly being required to keep dogs & cats [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >keeping cats in at night, but have not heard of any about keeping cats on >you own property, full stop. I'm in a Melbourne bayside suburb within Victoria that was nicknamed "Dog Town" for many years. As restrictions were placed on dogs by our Council, people protested because similar restrictions weren't being placed on cats, so now restrictions are being placed on cats. >It seems like pissing into the wind to me. It does? >> The contractor loans out traps to people troubled by cats so wandering >> cats can be captured, then those that can be identified are returned >> to their owners (after the owners pay a fine) if homes can't be found >> for the remainder they would be put down. > >So all cats are meant to be indoor-only or caged cats? My dogs don't enter other people's properties, so why should a neighbour's cat be permitted to enter my property? I have my own trap which I've been given permission to use and when I trap a cat I phone the contractor who will pick up the cat and return my trap later in the day. One elderly neighbour likes to feed stray cats but many of my other neighbours take advantage of the traps to rid their properties of cats. It may eventually eradicate many of the wandering cats from our suburb. My dogs must be accompanied and on a lead when outside my property except when I take them to a designated dog off lead area. SignatureLindsay. > >It seems like pissing into the wind to me. > > It does? Yup. Building a wall to keep a cat in would be a *lot* more expensive than building a wall to keep a dog in. It would have to be higher and your choice of materials would be much more limited. If it's a choice between the neighbour's cat venturing on to your property every now and then and a 2.5m stone or corrugated iron fence, I know which most people would choose! It's easy enough to scare cats so that they won't do whatever it is you think might cause you harm while they're in you're property (using your garden as a toilet is the only thing I can think of) by using water bottles and loud noises to give them a *very* bad impression of the place. But other than passing through, what else are they going to do that makes you so determined not to have them on your property? There is not the problem of possible attacks, as with dogs, for instance. I have to say, when a dog strays on to my property I simply shoo it away. On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 07:28:04 +1200, Ashley was saying .... >> >It seems like pissing into the wind to me. >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >I have to say, when a dog strays on to my property I simply shoo it away. In Australia Victoria isn't the only State restricting cats http://www.busselton.wa.gov.au/comlaw/catlaw.htm http://www.dalby.qld.gov.au/services/cats.asp http://www.alicesprings.nt.gov.au/council/services/animal_cat.asp and I noticed similar views being expressed in New Zealand. http://www.rspcanz.org.nz/pet_care/vets/vet2.html SignatureLindsay. > In Australia Victoria isn't the only State restricting cats > http://www.busselton.wa.gov.au/comlaw/catlaw.htm > http://www.dalby.qld.gov.au/services/cats.asp > http://www.alicesprings.nt.gov.au/council/services/animal_cat.asp Jeesh, your local bodies are turning into control freaks over there! > and I noticed similar views being expressed in New Zealand. > http://www.rspcanz.org.nz/pet_care/vets/vet2.html Very, very much a minority view. There are definitely new developments that have "no cat" covenants because they are in ecologically sensitive areas, and no one disagrees with that. There are also offshore islands where cats are banned - Great Barrier being the one that springs to mind - and no on argues with that for the same reason. I don't know any cat lover who would be opposed to desexing (I don't know any cat lover with entire cats other than breeders), registration or microchiping. I have no problems with any of them. But restricting cats to their owners' property when, quite frankly, they are no danger in terms of attacks the way dogs are (which is the main rational behind restricting dogs in this country) or limiting the number a household can have smacks of an irrational desire to control others. And I am comfortable in claiming to speak for most of New Zealand on that one :-) > > In Australia Victoria isn't the only State restricting cats > > http://www.busselton.wa.gov.au/comlaw/catlaw.htm [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > are banned - Great Barrier being the one that springs to mind - and no on > argues with that for the same reason. Hmm, not sure I agree with this, why..? > I don't know any cat lover who would be opposed to desexing (I don't know > any cat lover with entire cats other than breeders), registration or > microchiping. I have no problems with any of them. Nor do I. > But restricting cats to their owners' property when, quite frankly, they are > no danger in terms of attacks the way dogs are (which is the main rational [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > And I am comfortable in claiming to speak for most of New Zealand on that > one :-) And the entire UK. Here, cats are effectively regarded (by the law) as wild animals, with the freedom to come and go as they please. It has long been recognised the futility of trying to control cat movement. Ivor > > > In Australia Victoria isn't the only State restricting cats > > > http://www.busselton.wa.gov.au/comlaw/catlaw.htm [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Hmm, not sure I agree with this, why..? You need to understand New Zealand's wildlife. There are no native mammals apart from bats. Even the rats were introduced (first Pacific rats, or kiore, and then your common or garden rat found throughout the world). As a result, the wildlife developed without the need to protect itself from efficient mammalian hunters. Every part of your food chain (your being Britain's and basically every other part of the world) that is inhabited by a mammal is, here, inhabited by a bird or a reptile. And many of those birds that adapted to take advantage of the opportunities for grazing found that wings were pretty pointless if you're spending your life on the ground, or in low bushes, so they gave them up. Needless to say, the introduction of mammals such as rats, stoats (yes, some idiot introduced them - to control the rabbits they introduced earlier and which had got slightly out of hand), cats and dogs absolutely decimated the populations of these birds and of many various lizards and reptiles - including the tuatara, the closest living relative to the dinosaurs. While some of these animals still exist in pockets of the mainlaind (heavily protected pockets, needless to say - and the developments that I referred to that have no-cat covenants placed upon the properties are within cat distance of such areas) their refuges are the offshore island. New Zealand's breeding programmes for these now seriously endangered species, take place almost entirely on offshore islands. No New Zealander in their right mind is going to insist on their right to take a dog or a cat on to Great Barrier Island, Maude Island or any of the other islands that are either totally wildlife sanctuary, or largely wildlife sanctuary. Anyone who did so would risk a lynch mob. Personally, once they get the population up, I reckon the best way to ensure that kakapo prosper is to allow people to have them as pets (dear fellow Kiwis, please recognise this is at least slightly tongue in cheek!). They are, quite frankly, the most endearing birds this side of anywhere, and with a life span of 60 years, you wouldn't have to keep facing that pet grief thing. Mind you, staying up at night to play with them would get a bit tiring after a while. http://www.terranature.org/kakapo.htm ;-) > My dogs don't enter other people's properties, so why should a > neighbour's cat be permitted to enter my property? That's a little silly, isn't it? If there weren't fences, you'd have the neighbours dogs in there all the time; bear in mind that to a dog a fence is an obstacle, to a cat it's just part of the sidewalk. And I'd rather have the cat visit; the most "damage" I'm likely to get is a present buried in the garden. pat >> My dogs don't enter other people's properties, so why should a >> neighbour's cat be permitted to enter my property? > >That's a little silly, isn't it? If I thought it was silly then I wouldn't have said it. ;-) >And I'd rather have the cat visit; the most "damage" I'm likely to get >is a present buried in the garden. I'd rather prevent repeated cat visits by using a trap. SignatureLindsay. in the garden. > I'd rather prevent repeated cat visits by using a trap. Leaving aside that that doesn't prevent the visit, as the cat can't be captured unless it is on your property, why? I am genuinely interested to know. And "dogs can't do it so why should cats" is no more a genuine reason than "men can pee standing up, so why can't women". What do you perceive is the harm done to you by having a cat wander across your lawn? I am genuinely curious. >in the garden. >> >> I'd rather prevent repeated cat visits by using a trap. > >What do you perceive is the harm done to you by having a cat wander across >your lawn? I am genuinely curious. It isn't the odd cat that wanders across my lawn during daylight hours that bothers me, my dogs will scare them off anyway. What does bother me and other neighbours is feral cats prowling around during the night screaming and fighting amongst themselves causing the dogs in the neighbourhood to bark which wakes everybody. One neighbour who doesn't own a dog generally catches one or two cats every night. Last Sunday night he set four traps subsequently catching four cats which were all taken away Monday morning. SignatureLindsay. > It isn't the odd cat that wanders across my lawn during daylight hours > that bothers me, my dogs will scare them off anyway. Well, there you go. Your neighbours' cats probably aren't a problem at all. What does bother > me and other neighbours is feral cats prowling around during the night > screaming and fighting amongst themselves causing the dogs in the > neighbourhood to bark which wakes everybody. Feral cats and neighbours' pets are two different things. Especially in NZ and Aus where it's a wildlife preservation issue, I have no problem with feral cats being caught and euthanised. Actually, I think if cats were registered as dogs are, and the registration was signficantly less for neutered cats than whole cats, along with trapping and euthanising of feral cats, a large part of our wildlife problems would be solved. > One neighbour who doesn't own a dog generally catches one or two cats > every night. Last Sunday night he set four traps subsequently catching > four cats which were all taken away Monday morning. Sigh. I do despair sometimes. When you live in among people and their animals, noise happens. It sounds a bit like someone who moves to the country for peace and quiet and then complains about cocks crowing! Sometimes there are cat fights (though, I realised that I didn't include in a previous post, I also have no problem with local authorities in Australia that have bylaws insisting that cats be kept inside from dawn to dusk so they can't hunt vulnerable nocturnal creatures), sometimes it rains and makes a noise on iron roofs, sometimes you can hear the neighbours' music. Learning to relax about it all does everyone a lot more good than does getting annoyed by neighbours not keeping their cats under control or whatever. (though, I realised that I didn't include in > a previous post, I also have no problem with local authorities in Australia > that have bylaws insisting that cats be kept inside from dawn to dusk Oops. Dusk to dawn, obviously. I need more sleep! >>>My dogs don't enter other people's properties, so why should a >>>neighbour's cat be permitted to enter my property? >> >>That's a little silly, isn't it? > > If I thought it was silly then I wouldn't have said it. ;-) Wouldnt' be the first time the Enter key got hit before the sensecheck was finished. If your dog weighed 5 lbs and had retractable claws... and the neighbour's cat weighed 100 lbs and didn't, then your neighbour'd be the one complaining (and you'd both have a different series of problems but that's another story). That being said, you should of course expect the cat's owner to help out if any damages occur, which is more than can be said for wild animals. pat > Gday all > > I have an 8 Month old red tom kitten male. > > i purchased him when he was about 5 weeks old. This is probably part of the problem At 5 weeks they are still learning proper play behaviour FROM THEIR MOM. Too late now but knowing he didn't get this crucial training might help you understand him better now. > He was a very naughty cat, always getting into trouble and doign things he > isnt allowed to do, we disciplened him with a squirty bottle or lockign him > in his room. And these things aren't working right??? Like kids you have to do what works. He is still a kitten even though he looks full grown. He has a lot to learn and too much "punishment" at this stage is going to add to the problem. The idea of the squirt bottle is to startle the cat when they are doing something wrong..not to discipline or punish. It should be one quick squirt out of nowhere. As soon as they associate the action with you then it's no longer effective. Try substitution. When he is doing something you don't want such as biting, stop him and substitute an acceptable behaviour such as biting a toy. Disengage your hand, put the toy in the cats grasp. When mine jumps on a table I immediately pick her up and put her in her tree. I realize that getting up high is a normal cat behaviour so I show her the proper place to get high...so to speak :-) > He has plenty of toys. He probably doesn't know how to use them...again...use the toys for substitution. > around 5 months old he became very angry, attacks us, bites and scratches at > random but can be very affectionate. Normal. It's not anger, he is a male cat coming of age exerting dominance over his "pride". > at 6 months old we had him Desexed to try and stop this behaviour. Good move, a month or two (or 3) earlier and you may have avoided this situation altogether. Still...it's not to late to retrain him or show him for the first time what appropriate play behaviour is since Mom didn't get the chance. > Now he attacks at random, attacks my other 10 year old female cat whos just > too old for it. Again, he is still a male cat asserting himself. It's not necessarily meanness.. he doesn't know any better since the discipline you tried didn't work with this particular cat. Again..substitution. When he attacks you or the other cat just grab a stuffed animal or cat toy and put it in place of the object being attacked whether it be hand or older cat. > attacks us and just doesnt seem to be disciplined.. He isn't "trained". No one taught him proper play. First thing you need to do is quit thinking that you "discipline" animals. They rarely make the connection between doing something bad and some subsequent punishment. It's not a person you can reason with. "I am locking you up because you attacked precious" He just knows that he gets locked up and needs to make the best of the rest of the time when he is out...needs to get all that play energy out. > He is locked in his room a lot these days and also runs away from my self, No kidding..you lock him up..why wouldn't he run? > he runs around the neighbourhood when he has been told not too and Another red flag. "told not too?" Come on..it's a CAT. A well trained cat will come when it's called or may listen to what it's told but your cat isnt' trained and to top it off he is still just a kitten. If you want him to stay confined don't let him out or if you do, take him out on a leash. > disciplined everytime he does as we are affraid he will get hit by a car. we > have a very large backyard for him to play in thats fenced off with a tall > colour bond fence but he has learned to tunnel underneeth it or jump over > it. Again...don't discipline him after he does something wrong and expect him to make the connection especially since the discipline hasn't worked. Try and find another way to contain him. There are cat proof fences and sprays you can try. Work on the problem, not the cat. |
Enable EMail Alerts
Start New Thread
Reply to this Message