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Cat Forum / General Topics / July 2004when do cats start breeding
Hi my name is Ann and I have recently bought 2 kittens. I thought they were both boys but one is a girl and one is a boy so now I am worried that the girl will get pregnant before i have time to get her neutred she is about 9 weeks old can anybody tell me how long i have got before she can get pregnant TIA Ann PS is it right that the kittens fight all the time > Hi > my name is Ann and I have recently bought 2 kittens. I thought they [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Ann > PS is it right that the kittens fight all the time In general females have their first heat at about 6 months of age. Males will start being interested in breeding at about the same time - sometimes a little earlier. Yes, it is very normal for your kittens to be fighting - it is part of getting to know cat language. This link gives you a very short and basic outline of the developmental stages kittens go through http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/kitten_development.htm Hope this is useful! Camilla www.korat.dk > Hi > my name is Ann and I have recently bought 2 kittens. I thought they [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Ann > PS is it right that the kittens fight all the time Female cats usually come into heat around 6 months but some have been known to mature a little faster. Males about the same time but will start spraying younger. Your better off if you can neuter the male before he starts that particular behavior. :-) In my area they alter early, as soon as the kittens reach 2 lbs. I know there is a lot of controversy when it comes to the best age to alter your cats but I have to say I had my own cats done at 6 months and the fosters at 8 weeks. The fosters seemed to recover much faster, particularly the male. I guess it's a little tiny snip and two stitches at that age <g>. Ask your vet what he/she thinks when you take them in for their first shots but don't wait too long! AG You can safely have your cats fixed as early as 14 weeks. You don't want to wait, especially with the male. If he starts spraying before he is fixed, he might continue to spray afterward. > PS is it right that the kittens fight all the time< If they are siblings they shouldn't be fighting they much. May be they are just play fighting? Cats need to do this and it can look very realistic. (Think professional wrestling.) Dik | You can safely have your cats fixed as early as 14 weeks. You don't want to | wait, especially with the male. If he starts spraying before he is fixed, he [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] | | Dik I know the neutering question is controversial, but if they were my cats I'd get them fixed with 5-6 months. My vet says if the female happens to be pregnant then, there will be an abortion. My own female was spayed with 8 months, but she never was pregnant by then. Cats can play very hard with each other; unless they really bite or hiss at each other I'd let them sort it out by themselves. Carola > | You can safely have your cats fixed as early as 14 weeks. You don't want > to [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > My vet says if the female happens to be pregnant then, there will be an > abortion. That statement alone is enough to make me want to alter my pets before there is ANY chance of pregnancy. With males, it's a little tiny snip at 10 weeks. At 6 months it's much more of a surgery. In this age of microscopic procedures and advanced medicine there really isn't any reason to wait until it's too late. AG >I know the neutering question is controversial, but if they were my cats I'd get them fixed with 5-6 months. My vet says if the female happens to be pregnant then, there will be an abortion.< I understand that those in both sides of the controversy are thinking of the best interest of the cats. But, I would not want my cat to be spayed after she is pregnant. That would be too traumatic for her. Also, if cats are spayed after their first heat cycles, there is a greater chance of them developing mammary cancer. I would not want cats to be spayed when they are say 10 weeks old. But as soon as they are old enough to be spayed, I think they should be spayed. Moreover, cats heal their wound from spaying much faster if they are spayed at an early age. Dik >| You can safely have your cats fixed as early as 14 weeks. You don't want >to [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >Carola circa 30 Jun 2004 07:09:15 GMT, in alt.cats, Dik F. Liu (dikfliu@aol.comnojunk) said, > I would not want cats to be spayed when they are say 10 weeks old. Why not? > But as soon > as they are old enough to be spayed, I think they should be spayed. Okay, then what's the problem with having the cat spayed at ten weeks? > Moreover, > cats heal their wound from spaying much faster if they are spayed at an early > age. See questions above. There is no reason *not* to spay at ten weeks. Younger, in fact. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/reports/early-neuter.html Laura  SignatureExperience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde > circa 30 Jun 2004 07:09:15 GMT, in alt.cats, Dik F. Liu > (dikfliu@aol.comnojunk) said, > >>I would not want cats to be spayed when they are say 10 weeks old. > > Why not? Emotional Trauma? You've removed the kitten from the mother to do the spaying/neutering. Physical Problems? Once the kitten is back with mom she's gonna lick the operation site silly trying to remove the foreign substance (sutures). Unnecessary? Kittens don't mature in that fashion 'til 6 months or so. More Work for the Vet? (hypothesizing here) 10 week old kittens are tiny compared to 5-6 months old, there's alot less meat on their bones (shutup James), and their immune system isn't as well developed. pat circa Wed, 30 Jun 2004 18:24:53 GMT, in alt.cats, rpl (plinnane3NO@SPAMyahoo.com) said, > >>I would not want cats to be spayed when they are say 10 weeks old. > > > > Why not? > > Emotional Trauma? You've removed the kitten from the mother to do the > spaying/neutering. At *ten weeks*? Hardly. The kitten is already accustomed to a few hours away from its mother by then. Heck, some people start giving kittens away younger than that. Not that they should, mind you, but they do. In a shelter situation, the whole "emotional trauma" claim becomes even more irrelevant. IMO, no animal should be adopted out without first being neutered or spayed. Since it is absolutely possible to neuter/spay a kitten before the 12-week age at which they become adoptable, what, exactly, is the problem? > Physical Problems? Once the kitten is back with mom she's gonna lick the > operation site silly trying to remove the foreign substance (sutures). Do you speak from experience, or are you using your imagination? Again, you might want to consider the development of a ten-week-old kitten. These are *not* blind, deaf, helpless furballs. They're active, independent kittens at ten weeks. Have you *seen* what an early spay/neuter actually looks like? > Unnecessary? Kittens don't mature in that fashion 'til 6 months or so. The "or so" is the problem. *Many* cats mature earlier than that; I have two in my household that are living proof of that, in fact. One is sixteen+ years old and I had to have him neutered at five months because he had matured some weeks earlier and had started mounting his brother and other undesirable behaviors. Another is one I just adopted who had a litter of kittens before she herself was fully mature. And that's the point- Waiting six months does *not* ensure that you've neutered or spayed the animal before its sexual maturity. Neutering at three months does. > More Work for the Vet? (hypothesizing here) Nope. > 10 week old kittens are tiny > compared to 5-6 months old, there's alot less meat on their bones > (shutup James), and their immune system isn't as well developed. You should probably read the link I provided. Your hypotheses are contradictory to the results of research on this subject. Laura SignatureExperience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde > circa Wed, 30 Jun 2004 18:24:53 GMT, in alt.cats, rpl > (plinnane3NO@SPAMyahoo.com) said, > >>>>I would not want cats to be spayed when they are say 10 weeks old. >>>Why not? >>Emotional Trauma? You've removed the kitten from the mother to do the >>spaying/neutering. > At *ten weeks*? Hardly. The kitten is already accustomed to a few > hours away from its mother by then. Heck, some people start giving > kittens away younger than that. Not that they should, mind you, but > they do. Some people put them in bags and toss them in the river... doesn't make it right. > In a shelter situation, the whole "emotional trauma" claim becomes > even more irrelevant. IMO, no animal should be adopted out without > first being neutered or spayed. Since it is absolutely possible to > neuter/spay a kitten before the 12-week age at which they become > adoptable, what, exactly, is the problem? That's nice.... where in the original post did it say "shelter situation"? Or me for that matter? The "trauma" I mentioned is taking it away from it's mother (I'm actually more concerned about the mother whose kittens go missing for a day then returned then eventually get given away again);why do you choose to pretend I said otherwise ? >>Physical Problems? Once the kitten is back with mom she's gonna lick the >>operation site silly trying to remove the foreign substance (sutures). > > Do you speak from experience, or are you using your imagination? Experience with post-operative sutures on 10 week old kittens? No. Experience with things that get stuck in kittens' fur, etc. (alot of et cetera) and the mothers' reaction, yes. > Again, you might want to consider the development of a ten-week-old > kitten. These are *not* blind, deaf, helpless furballs. They're > active, independent kittens at ten weeks. Have you *seen* what an > early spay/neuter actually looks like? I don't agree with the practice given a choice; why would I. What kind of difference are you pretending it's making? You haven't either. >>Unnecessary? Kittens don't mature in that fashion 'til 6 months or so. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > that you've neutered or spayed the animal before its sexual maturity. > Neutering at three months does. so now we've gone from 10 weeks to over 13 weeks now, right? Give me a scorecard (and the original post was 9 weeks, btw). <shrug> so knock it down to 5 months... still a long ways from 9-10 weeks. >>More Work for the Vet? (hypothesizing here) > Nope. Then you're a vet or a vet's surgical assistant. Yes?? >>10 week old kittens are tiny >>compared to 5-6 months old, there's alot less meat on their bones >>(shutup James), and their immune system isn't as well developed. > You should probably read the link I provided. I did. Did you? Did you read it carefully? > Your hypotheses are > contradictory to the results of research on this subject. And you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Hypothesis (singular) is spelt with an "i". I'm just saying (and have been saying) that if you have unfixed kittens then you as an owner should wait awhile until they're "teenagerish" or close to it; ask your vet. If you look at the original post, that was the query. pat > Laura circa Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:19:20 GMT, in alt.cats, rpl (plinnane3NO@SPAMyahoo.com) said, > > circa Wed, 30 Jun 2004 18:24:53 GMT, in alt.cats, rpl > > (plinnane3NO@SPAMyahoo.com) said, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Some people put them in bags and toss them in the river... doesn't make > it right. This is what you consider a counterpoint? It has no relevance to my point. > > In a shelter situation, the whole "emotional trauma" claim becomes > > even more irrelevant. IMO, no animal should be adopted out without [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > That's nice.... where in the original post did it say "shelter > situation"? Or me for that matter? You miss the entire point of my post. My concern is that people would think that cats should not be neutered or spayed at young ages because there is something *wrong* with it. There simply is not. > The "trauma" I mentioned is taking it away from it's mother (I'm > actually more concerned about the mother whose kittens go missing for a > day then returned then eventually get given away again);why do you > choose to pretend I said otherwise ? How did you draw the cockamamie conclusion that I "chose to pretend" *anything*? I did no such thing. Kittens at ten weeks are quite independent of their mothers, and the mother cats are quite accustomed to them wandering off. > >>Physical Problems? Once the kitten is back with mom she's gonna lick the > >>operation site silly trying to remove the foreign substance (sutures). > > > > Do you speak from experience, or are you using your imagination? > > Experience with post-operative sutures on 10 week old kittens? No. Call your veterinarian and ask how many sutures you're talking about, then. Smaller cats, smaller incisions, fewer stitches. Faster healing time. > Experience with things that get stuck in kittens' fur, etc. (alot of et > cetera) and the mothers' reaction, yes. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I don't agree with the practice given a choice; why would I. What kind > of difference are you pretending it's making? You haven't either. I "haven't either" what? I am making the point that saying that cats should not be neutered or spayed at ten weeks is not an accurate statement; in many situations, *such as shelter situations*, it is *far* better to neuter/spay the kitten before it leaves the shelter rather than rely on the new owner to do it. Too many never do. My point was to make it clear that there is not something inherently _wrong_ with neutering/spaying a ten-week-old kitten. There simply is *not*. Choosing not to neuter or spay one's kitten until six months of age is one's own choice. But there is no medical reason that a kitten ten weeks of age or younger cannot be desexed. None. > >>Unnecessary? Kittens don't mature in that fashion 'til 6 months or so. > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > so now we've gone from 10 weeks to over 13 weeks now, right? What are you talking about? We've gone from nothing to nothing, and I have no idea where you're even getting "13 weeks". Is this a mathematical miscalculation on your part? > Give me a > scorecard (and the original post was 9 weeks, btw). Um, no, the post to which *I* responded discussed *ten* weeks. If I had intended to respond to the original post, I would have done so. It's called "threading". > <shrug> so knock it > down to 5 months... still a long ways from 9-10 weeks. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > I did. Did you? Did you read it carefully? Quite. Did you? > > Your hypotheses are > > contradictory to the results of research on this subject. > > And you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Hypothesis (singular) is > spelt with an "i". I meant it to be plural. You presented *several* hypothesEs in your response. Was that statement intended to sound as stupid as it does? > I'm just saying (and have been saying) that if you have unfixed kittens > then you as an owner should wait awhile until they're "teenagerish" or > close to it; ask your vet. If you look at the original post, that was > the query. And it is not the post to which I was responding. Laura SignatureExperience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde > (plinnane3NO@SPAMyahoo.com) said, >>>(plinnane3NO@SPAMyahoo.com) said, >>>>>>I would not want cats to be spayed when they are say 10 weeks old. >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > This is what you consider a counterpoint? It has no relevance to my > point. Why would I consider it a counterpoint? I agree that people shouldn't start giving kittens away younger than that. But I don't think that just because a practice is accepted makes it right... apparently neither do you. <snip, you're talking about shelters, I'm talking about when your cat has kittens> > You miss the entire point of my post. My concern is that people would > think that cats should not be neutered or spayed at young ages > because there is something *wrong* with it. There simply is not. And *my* point is if you have an unneutered cat to wait until it matures more. Not "oh as long as I remember I think I'll get the cat spayed"... set up ahead of time an appointment with your vet to go in when the cat's 5 months old. I think there's a set of shots around that time, too. >>The "trauma" I mentioned is taking it away from it's mother (I'm >>actually more concerned about the mother whose kittens go missing for a >>day then returned then eventually get given away again);why do you >>choose to pretend I said otherwise ? > How did you draw the cockamamie conclusion that I "chose to pretend" > *anything*? I did no such thing. You chose to pretend I was talking about a shelter/pet store situation when I said I was not. > Kittens at ten weeks are quite > independent of their mothers, and the mother cats are quite > accustomed to them wandering off. Never had kittens have you? Through 3 queens and <mumble>(6 or 7 maybe even 8) litters before finally getting *all* the damn cats spayed, the mother *always* looks for the kittens after they're adopted (12 weeks). They get over it after a few days, but why would I want to put the mother cat through that twice ? (and me, btw; it's a pain to spend a couple days opening closet doors for her-ladyships inspection and might as well put a chair by the door to the outside to let her in and out a few hundred times). >>> Have you *seen* what an >>> early spay/neuter actually looks like? >> >>I don't agree with the practice given a choice; why would I. What kind >>of difference are you pretending it's making? You haven't either. > I "haven't either" what? QUOTE: "Have you *seen* ....."? > in many situations, *such as shelter situations*, it is > *far* better to neuter/spay the kitten before it leaves the shelter > rather than rely on the new owner to do it. Too many never do. Both the original *and* the post that you were responding to were in regards to cats that came to their owners "au natural". Your saying that the shelter or pet-store should have fixed them doesn't have much to do with their situations. <<<a little oversnipped>>> >>>Neutering at three months does. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > have no idea where you're even getting "13 weeks". Is this a > mathematical miscalculation on your part? dunno... I'm a guy; I can normally only count up to twenty-one... how many weeks is three months? >>Give me a >>scorecard (and the original post was 9 weeks, btw). > > Um, no, the post to which *I* responded discussed *ten* weeks. True. My mistake. >><shrug> so knock it >>down to 5 months... still a long ways from 9-10 weeks. >>>You should probably read the link I provided. >> >>I did. Did you? Did you read it carefully? > > Quite. Did you? Something about the words "I did" hard to comprehend? >>>Your hypotheses are >>>contradictory to the results of research on this subject. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I meant it to be plural. Thus the phrase "you're arguing for the sake of..." > You presented *several* hypothesEs in your > response. just one. the others were facts... and though not a veterinarian I *still* hypothesize that the larger an animal is, the easier it is to operate on (with apologies to vets if I'm insulting their skill in some way). > Was that statement intended to sound as stupid as it does? <shrug> you wrote it, I didn't; I haven't taken anything you've said so far to be stupid, just uninformed or non-sequitur. pat circa Thu, 01 Jul 2004 22:40:07 GMT, in alt.cats, rpl (plinnane3NO@SPAMyahoo.com) said, > > This is what you consider a counterpoint? It has no relevance to my > > point. > > Why would I consider it a counterpoint? I agree that people shouldn't > start giving kittens away younger than that. But I don't think that just > because a practice is accepted makes it right... apparently neither do you. And again, it's not germane. > <snip, you're talking about shelters, I'm talking about when your cat > has kittens> I was replying to *Dik*, not to *you*. *You* chose to make my post about *your* point, but that doesn't change the fact that my point was the same throughout. > > You miss the entire point of my post. My concern is that people would > > think that cats should not be neutered or spayed at young ages > > because there is something *wrong* with it. There simply is not. > > And *my* point is if you have an unneutered cat to wait until it matures > more. Which *still* has nothing to do with my point. > Not "oh as long as I remember I think I'll get the cat spayed"... > set up ahead of time an appointment with your vet to go in when the > cat's 5 months old. I think there's a set of shots around that time, too. Actually, most states require rabies shots beginning at *12* weeks. (I've done the research on every single state in the U.S., so don't start another inane argument about this.) So, again, an early neuter would fit right in. But you're clearly being intentionally obtuse, as we're talking about two different things here. > >>The "trauma" I mentioned is taking it away from it's mother (I'm > >>actually more concerned about the mother whose kittens go missing for a > >>day then returned then eventually get given away again);why do you > >>choose to pretend I said otherwise ? Puh-leeze. If it is *such* a concern, then do the spay/neuter on the day the kitten goes to its new owners. You're just making up ridiculousness at this point. > > How did you draw the cockamamie conclusion that I "chose to pretend" > > *anything*? I did no such thing. > > You chose to pretend I was talking about a shelter/pet store situation > when I said I was not. I did no such thing. *You* chose to assume that I *wasn't* when I said that I *was*. Christ. > > Kittens at ten weeks are quite > > independent of their mothers, and the mother cats are quite > > accustomed to them wandering off. > > Never had kittens have you? You're *quite* wrong there, but keep putting your foot in it. > Through 3 queens and <mumble>(6 or 7 maybe > even 8) litters before finally getting *all* the damn cats spayed, the > mother *always* looks for the kittens after they're adopted (12 weeks). I didn't say she wouldn't *look* for them. I said that they're independent enough at that point to be spayed or neutered. > They get over it after a few days, but why would I want to put the > mother cat through that twice ? If you're *so* concerned about the mother, then you shouldn't be giving away the kittens at all, using your "logic". > (and me, btw; it's a pain to spend a > couple days opening closet doors for her-ladyships inspection and might > as well put a chair by the door to the outside to let her in and out a > few hundred times). What on earth are you talking about? You're not even making sense. And if you're referring to letting a *fertile queen outside*, then you've lost any credibility you might possibly have had. > >>> Have you *seen* what an > >>> early spay/neuter actually looks like? > >> > >>I don't agree with the practice given a choice; why would I. Why *wouldn't* you? It has NO deleterious effects. I did NOT say that it was appropriate for *every* situation. I *said* that it is NOT inappropriate to neuter or spay at a young age. > What kind > >>of difference are you pretending it's making? You haven't either. I'm getting tired of repeating myself to you. > > I "haven't either" what? > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the shelter or pet-store should have fixed them doesn't have much to do > with their situations. You're just thickskulled and I'm tired of reading whatever it is you think you're saying at this point. <plonk> Laura SignatureExperience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde <snippage for brevity> > > You presented *several* hypothesEs in your > > response. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > operate on (with apologies to vets if I'm insulting their skill in some > way). The problem is not your opinion but the way you are stating your opinions as a semi fact (or hypothesized fact). I can't imagine that vets in the US are some how more capable than those elsewhere and here they have no problem operating on 2lb kittens. Heck, my vet operates on much smaller animals like Guinea pigs and birds. We tend to think in terms of what we have always known...but times are a changing and medicine is advancing. There are good reasons to do it sooner...like making sure it gets done in time and in the cases of males they actually heal faster. I can't speak for the trauma since my kittens didn't exhibit any and the mom seemed happy for the break. :-) If you "prefer" waiting until they are 6 months than that's cool but it's just not true that it's "better" for the cat. The poster asked when they can do it...one answer is at appx 10 weeks. (Actually they have to be at least 2lb which is around 10 weeks). AG > > Unnecessary? Kittens don't mature in that fashion 'til 6 months or so. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > because he had matured some weeks earlier and had started mounting > his brother and other undesirable behaviors. <snip> I had a male that "developed early" - 4 months old and he was climbing on my golden retrievers back trying to mount her (thankfully she was good natured, but he was becoming quite the pain so she started growling - thankfully I could get him fixed. Spaying neutering - depends on where you go. One shelter I foster for does it as soon as kittens are over 2 1/4 lb, then they go up for adoption. They used to give out certificates for spay/neuter but a lot of people never took advantage, or weren't responsible and pets never got fixed. Thus the shelter was forced to fixing at such a young age. It's sad, but there's already enough unwanted kittens out there. Kitten season is in full swing and the shelter is overflowing with kittens. circa Wed, 30 Jun 2004 18:24:53 GMT, in alt.cats, rpl (plinnane3NO@SPAMyahoo.com) said, > pat P.S. Absolutely no offense intended in my reply. Laura SignatureExperience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde > circa Wed, 30 Jun 2004 18:24:53 GMT, in alt.cats, rpl > (plinnane3NO@SPAMyahoo.com) said, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Laura Little to none taken. pat > > circa 30 Jun 2004 07:09:15 GMT, in alt.cats, Dik F. Liu > > (dikfliu@aol.comnojunk) said, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Emotional Trauma? You've removed the kitten from the mother to do the > spaying/neutering. Most kittens are old enough to be re-homed at 10-12 weeks. They have removed themselves from the mother. > Physical Problems? Once the kitten is back with mom she's gonna lick the > operation site silly trying to remove the foreign substance (sutures). They do that at any age. At least at the younger age the sutures are much smaller. > Unnecessary? Kittens don't mature in that fashion 'til 6 months or so. Most..but some can mature as young as 20 weeks. Why not do it sooner rather than later. > More Work for the Vet? (hypothesizing here) 10 week old kittens are tiny > compared to 5-6 months old, there's alot less meat on their bones > (shutup James), and their immune system isn't as well developed. My vet actually perfers to do it younger. There used to be the concerns about anethesia on small animals but the procedure is so improved that now the only concern is anethesia at any age. With males..it's way easier on them before they fully develope. With females, the science has gotten so advanced that the small size is really a non issue. The whole thing is more traumatic on us than it is on them. I'm telling you my fosters recovered much faster and it was much less of an issue than it ever was with my own cats. It's one thing to wait just because you can (with fosters you want to alter before you place them to be sure it gets done) but you shouldn't be "afraid" of doing it as soon as they reach 2 lbs. AG >> But as soon >> as they are old enough to be spayed, I think they should be spayed. > >Okay, then what's the problem with having the cat spayed at ten >weeks? Look, I did not write that there is a problem. Your quarrel is not with me, Laura. I wrote of the age when I feel comfortable having my cats go under the knife to be spayed, which for me is around 14 weeks - not ten weeks or six months. As quoted in the very link your provided. "... the differences between cats neutered at 7 weeks and 7 months are insignificant." Dik circa 01 Jul 2004 00:57:00 GMT, in alt.cats, Dik F. Liu (dikfliu@aol.comnojunk) said, > >> But as soon > >> as they are old enough to be spayed, I think they should be spayed. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Look, I did not write that there is a problem. I didn't say you did. I asked why you wouldn't spay at ten weeks. > Your quarrel is not with me, Actually, there is no quarrel, and I would appreciate you not attributing one where it doesn't exist. > Laura. I wrote of the age when I feel comfortable having my cats go under the > knife to be spayed, which for me is around 14 weeks - not ten weeks or six > months. As quoted in the very link your provided. "... the differences between > cats neutered at 7 weeks and 7 months are insignificant." Except that cats at 7 months can have already gone into heat and been impregnated, or developed the habit of spraying. That is my point. If you have a cat spayed/neutered *before* adolescence, you avoid all of those potential problems. I didn't reference your personal cats at all (aren't you the person who is on his third or fourth set of kittens in the past six months?); I simply asked why you said what you did. Chill out. Laura SignatureExperience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde >That is my point. If you have a cat spayed/neutered *before* adolescence, you avoid all of those potential problems. I didn't reference your personal cats at all (aren't you the person who is on his third or fourth set of kittens in the past six months?); < No, I am not. You are mixing up the posts, Laura. I have only one cat. My cat's breeder had the cat fixed while she was a kitten, before she came to my home. Dik circa 01 Jul 2004 02:07:11 GMT, in alt.cats, Dik F. Liu (dikfliu@aol.comnojunk) said, > >That is my point. If you have a cat spayed/neutered *before* adolescence, you > avoid all of those potential problems. I didn't reference your personal cats [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > No, I am not. You are mixing up the posts, Laura. I have only one cat. My cat's > breeder had the cat fixed while she was a kitten, before she came to my home. Ah, who was the person who kept getting kittens? In pairs? In any case, my apologies if that was not you. Laura SignatureExperience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde circa 01 Jul 2004 02:07:11 GMT, in alt.cats, Dik F. Liu (dikfliu@aol.comnojunk) said, > >That is my point. If you have a cat spayed/neutered *before* adolescence, you > avoid all of those potential problems. I didn't reference your personal cats [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > No, I am not. You are mixing up the posts, Laura. I have only one cat. My cat's > breeder had the cat fixed while she was a kitten, before she came to my home. Whoops, that was Don Liu. Sorry about that. Laura SignatureExperience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde >Whoops, that was Don Liu. Sorry about that.< Very well. We can put the misunderstanding behind us. Sorry if I was too testy. Dik circa 01 Jul 2004 04:38:10 GMT, in alt.cats, Dik F. Liu (dikfliu@aol.comnojunk) said, > >Whoops, that was Don Liu. Sorry about that.< > > Very well. We can put the misunderstanding behind us. Sorry if I was too testy. Not in the least; you were quite cordial in your posts, for the most part, even if that wasn't necessarily what you were feeling when you wrote them. ;-) Laura SignatureExperience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde circa 29 Jun 2004 05:45:40 GMT, in alt.cats, Dik F. Liu (dikfliu@aol.comnojunk) said, > You can safely have your cats fixed as early as 14 weeks. Earlier than that, actually. Laura SignatureExperience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde > Hi > my name is Ann and I have recently bought 2 kittens. I thought they [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Ann > PS is it right that the kittens fight all the time They can be neutered safely as soon as they weigh 2 lbs, which is usually by 10 weeks or so. -L. Hi Thanks for all the advice Ann > > Hi > > my name is Ann and I have recently bought 2 kittens. I thought they [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > -L. circa 1 Jul 2004 00:55:06 -0700, in alt.cats, -L. : (usenetlyn@yahoo.com) said, > > my name is Ann and I have recently bought 2 kittens. I thought they > > were both boys but one is a girl and one is a boy so now I am worried that [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > They can be neutered safely as soon as they weigh 2 lbs, which is > usually by 10 weeks or so. Don't get rpl started... Laura SignatureExperience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde > Don't get rpl started... > > Laura hmmmph! There's no reason you can't wait until the cat's say 5 months old or so. Laura's just afraid you'll forget or lose the cat in the meantime. rpl circa Thu, 01 Jul 2004 22:45:05 GMT, in alt.cats, rpl (plinnane3NO@SPAMyahoo.com) said, > > Don't get rpl started... > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Laura's just afraid you'll forget or lose the cat in the meantime. Clearly you have problems reading, if that's what you gleaned from my posts. Regardless, I've killfiled you at this point because your responses are just pointless. And *three* months is a FAR better idea than "5 months or so". Cats can, and DO become fertile at five months. They don't at three months. Laura SignatureExperience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde > circa Thu, 01 Jul 2004 22:45:05 GMT, in alt.cats, rpl > (plinnane3NO@SPAMyahoo.com) said, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Clearly you have problems reading, if that's what you gleaned from my > posts. You mean apart from "don't get rpl started" which is your entire post? > Regardless, I've killfiled you at this point because your > responses are just pointless. Thankyou. Take your non-sequitur ideas and fictitious URL and stay out of my way then. pat (rpl) > > Don't get rpl started... > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Laura's just afraid you'll forget or lose the cat in the meantime. There is also no reason you can't do it as young as 2lbs. You percieve there to be a problem but that is just your perception. If you want to wait...fine..but sooner is not "worse" I suppose the most accurate response to the question is: "you can alter as soon as they reach 2lbs....certainly you should do so before they reach 6 months" K? AG circa Thu, 1 Jul 2004 22:44:58 -0700, in alt.cats, Agua Girl (uknown@spamblock.net) said, > There is also no reason you can't do it as young as 2lbs. You > percieve there to be a problem but that is just your perception. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > K? Thank you for your reasoned, rational, educated responses. Laura SignatureExperience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde > There is also no reason you can't do it as young as 2lbs. You > percieve there to be a problem but that is just your perception. > If you want to wait...fine..but sooner is not "worse" [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > K? Do I agree you have a right to post your opinions? yes. Do I agree with your opinions? not really. My opinions are a bit upstream and as noted, they're based on and in regards to queens and offspring, which is closer to the original and supplementary queries than the "shelter" model; read them before they were butchered by somebody armed with a mostly fictitious URL and an antagonistic attitude. A previous poster has mentioned that vets in her area don't spay until 5 months or thereabouts... and there would be no other reason than the cats' well-being for that to be common. Do I think you should be worried if the cat you get from the shelter[2] is already neutered? no; that's normal practise (practice?), besides, the shelter has kept an eye on the kitten pre/post, and it saves a new owner time/money. pat [1] all currently spayed and/or given away before that silly flaming starts [2] the best place to find moggies next to adopting strays > AG > > There is also no reason you can't do it as young as 2lbs. You > > percieve there to be a problem but that is just your perception. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > were butchered by somebody armed with a mostly fictitious URL and an > antagonistic attitude. The rule for "shelter" cats apply to all cats. There is a stronger reason to do so at a younger age but the fact that you can do so with no harm to the cat is still valid. And it is certainly better than waiting until the cat has a chance to produce. As for the other poster....I haven't seen a single one of their posts except in your replies which means they must have already earned a spot in my filter ;-) > A previous poster has mentioned that vets in her area don't spay until 5 > months or thereabouts... and there would be no other reason than the > cats' well-being for that to be common. Or they just haven't changed them since the 50's. You would be astonished at all the old laws on the books. Medicine has come a long way and the old concerns no longer apply. > Do I think you should be worried if the cat you get from the shelter[2] > is already neutered? no; that's normal practise (practice?), besides, > the shelter has kept an eye on the kitten pre/post, and it saves a new > owner time/money. OK..and by that same standard if the shelters....people who are very involved in the well being of animals...doesn't see an issue with altering early than why should a private owner? By the same logic you applied to those rules against altering before 5 months in some areas you could draw the conclusion that since the shelters do it there must not be that great a concern for the cats well-being. I too agree you have the right to your opinions and the right to express them. It is just a little unfair to imply that it is some how harmful to the animal or that vets have a harder time operating on smaller animals. That simply isn't true. The age at which you choose to spay is mostly just owners preference. I guess as long as you do it, BEFORE it's too late...it doesn't really matter when. AG >> > There is also no reason you can't do it as young as 2lbs. You >> [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > AG One of our female cats is 1 1/2 years old and unspayed. She seems to go in and out of heat, but not all the time. She had a long stretch of about a month to almost two months of not going into heat. The vet told me that it's best to get her spayed as she won't be bred and unspayed cats can become too thin. | One of our female cats is 1 1/2 years old and unspayed. She seems to go | in and out of heat, but not all the time. She had a long stretch of | about a month to almost two months of not going into heat. The vet told | me that it's best to get her spayed as she won't be bred and unspayed | cats can become too thin. I've heard if female cats go into heat without getting pregnant then this can/will cause cancer. Carola > One of our female cats is 1 1/2 years old and unspayed. She seems to go > in and out of heat, but not all the time. She had a long stretch of > about a month to almost two months of not going into heat. The vet told > me that it's best to get her spayed as she won't be bred and unspayed > cats can become too thin. Please do research pyometra which can kill unspayed female cats. It's quite common in females that aren't bred and one of the big reasons spayed females live much longer than unspayed ones. >Do I think you should be worried if the cat you get from the shelter[2] >is already neutered? no; that's normal practise (practice?), besides, >the shelter has kept an eye on the kitten pre/post, and it saves a new >owner time/money. Shelters don't do early spay/neuters to save the owner time & money. They do it because it is absolutely critical that no cat falls through the cracks and reproduces. You can't trust people to have it done, and it doesn't even matter whether they have put up a deposit. Some still won't, out of laziness or stupidity. If an individual has a kitten and is reponsible enough to keep it from breeding, there's no reason to do early neutering. Personally, I wait till 6 months, but that's just me. I've never had a cat go into heat or spray before that age, some do; but it's not that common. Sherry > >Do I think you should be worried if the cat you get from the shelter[2] > >is already neutered? no; that's normal practise (practice?), besides, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > months, but that's just me. I've never had a cat go into heat or spray before > that age, some do; but it's not that common. That's fine as long as you can be absolutely sure your cat is not one of the uncommon ones or are absolutely sure that no way your cat is going to get out before it gets spayed. You don't necessarily have to bet "your" life on it, just the lives of whatever unwanted kittens your animals add to the mix :-) Not saying you are being irresponsible..not at all...just want to make sure everyone knows how critical it is that we get the cat population down. In a perfect world every person who wants a cat can have one, every cat has a home and no animals are killed as a means of population control. AG >That's fine as long as you can be absolutely sure your cat is not one >of the uncommon ones or are absolutely sure that no way your cat [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >AG I don't have to make "absolutely sure" the cat is not one of the extreme minority that matures early. The cat stays in. The other cats are neutered. Many vets still don't neuter/spay prior to 6 months. It's really not that hard to keep a cat from breeding prior to that age. The problem is new owners that will procrastinate. If I were adopting to someone I knew personally to be responsible, I wouldn't have a problem at all if they chose to wait 6 months instead of taking the cat out of town to a vet who performs EEN. Sherry Sherry > >That's fine as long as you can be absolutely sure your cat is not one > >of the uncommon ones or are absolutely sure that no way your cat [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I don't have to make "absolutely sure" the cat is not one of the extreme > minority that matures early. The cat stays in. which is why the second half of that sentence reads "or are absolutely sure it can't get out". > A previous poster has mentioned that vets in her area don't spay until 5 > months or thereabouts... and there would be no other reason than the > cats' well-being for that to be common. Not all vets are comfortable performing early spays or neuters. That doesn't mean there's anything detrimental health wise to those kittens altered at 2 pounds. I speak from experience - we have currently around 25 kittens on the adoptable floor at our shelter. All of them spayed and neutered at between 8 and 12 weeks. They're all bouncy, friendly, well-adjusted, and healthy. Besides - many vets offer discounts for alter + declaw. Does THAT have something to do with the cat's well-being? Yet it's common. > > There is also no reason you can't do it as young as 2lbs. You > > percieve there to be a problem but that is just your perception. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > months or thereabouts... and there would be no other reason than the > cats' well-being for that to be common. Or the vet isn't skilled enough to do the surgery on smaller cats or isn't comfortable doing early S/N. There are dozens of studies which prove early S/N has no long-term effects on cats. It is done *routinely* in many private vet practices, shelters and other orgs. There is absolutely no reason to wait if the kitten is healthy. Too often unwanted kittens result from people who "wanted to wait". I have personally seen cats go in heat as early as 4 months. Why take the risk, if you don't have to? -L. > They can be neutered safely as soon as they weigh 2 lbs, which is > usually by 10 weeks or so. My vet (in London) won't neuter a male cat until he is 5 and a half months old - and from talking to other people in London that seems a pretty common attitude. Amanda circa Fri, 2 Jul 2004 00:18 +0100 (BST), in alt.cats, Amanda Jones (avjones@cix.co.uk) said, > > They can be neutered safely as soon as they weigh 2 lbs, which is > > usually by 10 weeks or so. > > My vet (in London) won't neuter a male cat until he is 5 and a half months > old - and from talking to other people in London that seems a pretty > common attitude. Yes, well, in the UK it is also common to let one's cats outside, and in the US, there are lots of idiots who declaw. That doesn't change the fact that Lyn was correct in her statements. Laura SignatureExperience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde > circa Fri, 2 Jul 2004 00:18 +0100 (BST), in alt.cats, Amanda Jones > (avjones@cix.co.uk) said, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Experience is the name every one gives to their mistakes. > -Oscar Wilde Lordy, why is it so difficult on this newsgroup for people to give an opinion without getting into a sh.t fight? I have 24 insiders and about a dozen outsiders that come and go--that I have caught, spayed and/or neutered. They are feral and come to my place to be fed and get adequate water and shelter. All my insiders got fixed at about 5 months--both male and female--and the outsiders got it whenever I could catch 'em. Some too late <G>--whereupon I then caught their litters and made insiders out of them either here or with adopters. So, the answer I have (IMHO) is that females usually come into season at about 5 to 6 months. And the young males who are not fixed by then usually respond. So there. --Geno<who knows more about cats than the average vet>Royer > > My vet (in London) won't neuter a male cat until he is 5 and a half > > months old - and from talking to other people in London that seems a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > in the US, there are lots of idiots who declaw. That doesn't change > the fact that Lyn was correct in her statements. Why are you being so unnecessarily aggressive? I was contributing to the thread by pointing out that most vets in London won't neuter before 5 and a half months, no need to be so belligerent. > Hi > my name is Ann and I have recently bought 2 kittens. I thought they > were both boys but one is a girl and one is a boy so now I am worried that > the girl will get pregnant before i have time to get her neutred she is > about 9 weeks old can anybody tell me how long i have got before she can > get pregnant A few months. Kitty will have her first estrus in the 5-6 month range. > TIA > Ann > PS is it right that the kittens fight all the time Mostly they're play-fighting, if they're growling before fighting, it generally means one has managed to tick the other one off. > PS is it right that the kittens fight all the time Not usually a problem. I have four adult cats around (indoor cats, all) and you'd swear sometimes they're intent on killing each other. They go through regular periods of what I call mid-day madness; lots of tearing back and forth, nipping at each other, wrestling, snarling and hissing, etc. But they never draw blood. It's all show. Play. They're still kittens at heart, 'tho the oldest is starting out his 20th year. (!) And usually, 20 minutes after the madness is over, they're all in a common heap in the middle of the nearest sunny spot, sound asleep. |
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